By - F1-Bot
That's fully controversial
The booing was ridiculous. And, from what I\`ve read from other reddit posts about local fan behavior, I don\`t think I\`ve seen such a discussing behavior from fans. At least to my knowledge and impressions. Watched with F1TV and don\`t remember any commentators mentioning it, just ignoring and not calling out local fans. Also read that event organization was the worst, super long queues etc.
Yeah, Monza historical track and such, but would absolutely not mind skipping it for year or more till they get their s\*\*t together.
Just a thought I wanted to put out somewhere.
Have we really gone so far down this rabbit hole that booing is unacceptable fan behavior? Not even sure what exactly you're referring to but it happens in every sport / competition.
It may happen in every sport, but it does not make it right. Personally I don\`t like it in any sport. It\`s just ugly behavior. Though it does seem more acceptable in team sports where there are bigger squads (football, basketball, etc.).
On a dry track, with a car parked in a location well away from a racing line (or failed braking impact area), why couldn't they have just used double waved yellows or plain old yellow flags in that zone to the end of the race?
Most of the time a car crashes into an area where there is a likely other impact, but Ricciardo was well away from that sort of a location.
Or am I being too risky?
I believe SC or VSC is mandatory if there is any crane tractors (? don\`t know how exactly they are called) on the track. I was implemented after the Bianchi tragedy, if I remember correctly. Better safe than sorry.
That's fair enough. But why even bother with the crane in the Ricciardo scenario? The car could have pretty safely stayed there until the end.
Way too risky
What's the actual risk though? A car spearing off at Lesmo 1 wouldn't have gone anywhere near DR's car, and if "the best drivers in the world" can't observe waved yellows and therefore avoid a catastrophic collision ending up in the barriers on the inside of the Lesmos then that's pretty poor.
Veyr different scenario than Suzuka in the rain hitting a tractor etc. and if the marshals stay on the correct side of the barriers without any recovery vehicles attending then there is no additional risk surely?
There's always a risk with motorsport, but this seems very very light risk.
What most of people are missing is that the SC race ending was a direct consequence of the awful release of the Safety Car.
SC was deployed with an horrendous timing, in front of Russell. For this reason, SC was not able to rapidly be catched by the leader (Max) and thus resulting in 3 laps of madness, with the stewards unable to remove the car due to the cars not being packed behind the SC.
FIA very poorly managed this situation. They also took an insanely high amount of time to decide to deploy the SC. As an engineer, I believe in planning everything for critical events: race directors should have a map of the track where they have a-priori decided what to do if a car stops in that specific place. With proper planning a SC deployment would be a no-brainer since you already evaluated the danger of removing the car from there.
Car was stuck in gear. It was assumed the marshalls could just push it through a gap in the fence but that turned out not to be true
>As an engineer
Congrats but you are doing that classic engineer thing
I think there is a safety-oriented argument for late-race red flags:
As the rules are right now, there may be some undue pressure put on the people involved with safety car incidents (race director, marshals, SC driver, etc.) to do their job quickly rather than accurately. That's an environment which can and has led to mistakes.
A late-race red flag would alleviate that pressure by giving them as much time as they need to clear the track.
But why would the rules need to be different depending on how many laps are left?
The safety car at Monza didn't alter the outcome of the race. Even if it had, there has always been an element of luck with safety car.
Sometimes a race will end under the safety car. It happens less than once a season and feels like a knee-jerk reaction in the pursuit of "drama"
The SC did alter the outcome. Sainz was rapidly catching up Russell, he could have fought for a podium.
They said. Pressure. There is a weird agreement that says that, if possible, a race should be ended under racing rather than SC. Last year we saw the corners that RD was willing to cut to get that to be the case, absolutely at the cost of safety. A redflag would remove this pressure and remove the danger to safety.
i like how abu dhabi continues to haunt the fia.
nice seeing de vries getting points in his first race. pretty average race overall
If he can get into that William and perform at a level closer to Albon than Latifi, that gives us hope that he could be pretty good at this F1 thing.
Perhaps it tells us more about Latifi that he got his ass so easily handed to him by a guy who barely got 20 minutes of practice beforehand.
TLDR; I still don't understand Max Verstappen's pace.
From Lap 35 (Leclerc's first full lap on fresh Softs) to Lap 47 (last lap before the SC), the average pace of the two drivers were as follows:
VER (9 lap older Mediums) - 1:24.924
LEC (fresh Softs) - 1:24.734
Verstappen lost only ~3s in 13 laps of a straight pure pace shootout vs Leclerc. That gave him the delta to still box under SC and stay ahead of Leclerc. If he didn't show this pace, RB wouldn't have the buffer to box him under SC and if they did, they would have fallen behind Leclerc and as we saw, the race finished under the SC and maybe Charles would have won?
Verstappen won the race in that 13 lap shootout vs Leclerc. Not because of the safety car. Scary pace from the Dutchman.
I think Max was running well within his max capacity aswell. He knew he had the car and the pace to win whatever happened. Even when running on mediums with Leclerc on new softs he barely had to break a sweat.
The Max/RB combo right now is leagues ahead of anyone else. Reliability or crashes aside, I don't see Max not winning all the remaining races.
the SC gave Leclerc a small chance to fight Max on softs if there's a restart after SC. Without SC Leclerc is nowhere close to Max
Simple answer: 2022 RedBull + Max is fast af & he was holding back a lot of pace before Leclerc went to pit.
RedBull are in that Mercedes 2014-2016 phase were they don't want to show off their pace too much and get nerfed by FIA, so they get the lead and chill. Max went all out in Spa and it was similar to Bahrain 2014 after safety car restart when the leading car(s) made the rest look like road cars.
We heard rumors about RB introducing a new lighter (and possibly faster) chassis for those last races and it seems they have shelved that upgrade for now. I'm wondering if they are purposefully slowing down the introduction of upgrades on that car to try and stretch their advantage over the rest of the field. (I'm no expert on development of those F1 cars)
Leclerc had to make sure he kept his tyres alive. His first stint on red showed he didn't have much life in them, and now he had to do 20 laps on a set. Yes, lighter car, but still. The Ferrari seems to eat tyres much more, especially since they had a very low downforce config on their car.
Tldr the redbull has less tyre deg, faster on the straights and could get away with running a relatively big rear wing that gave extra value whenever max lapped someone
Charles also wanted to look after his fresh softs imo and didnt push too hard
Max’s car was also setup for the race, not single lap quali-pace. He even said so post quali.
I feel pain for Latifi.
Seriously, poor guy... he must be devastated
If I was him I would just retire from F1 as it'll be just too embarrassing to continue on. At some point you just have to accept it that you're just not good enough to be an F1 driver.
I'm not sure what you're referring to, do you mind explaining, please?
Normally I would, but not when [this is his analysis of the race.](https://youtu.be/Rdi_AP3fD60?t=234)
Exactly. His rookie teammate who never drove any F1 car full distance showed that it is very much possible to go through the corners, brake, etc.
Latifi just isn't good enough for F1. Probably be a decent midfielder in GT racing, but not in F1.
Max wins five races in a row and the English commentary couldn't sound more boring and biased. What a shame.
You think this is bad? Seb in 13 was so much about the car.. and Newey. Brundle really annoyed me though he had often said how great Seb was.. I’m not sure if it changed due to Sky/coincidence/memory is wrong.
We even had Alonso and Lewis saying I think they’re fighting Newey too and with how the RB is Seb didn’t need to drive as well (I think that was his style for maximum pace, he’d avoid the apex?).
Obviously the car is important but that is always the case..
well i cant attest to the bias, i havent watched the english feed, but boring it is.
Maybe stop watching the British feed then?
It's also the world feed though
I mean, are the Brits clammoring to hear commentary like this themselves? Crofty sounds like he wants to off himself every week, just 'cause the Brits ain't winning.
In Britain we literally have no other choice. Sky have exclusive rights so we can't even get f1tv
You have channel 4 though
same in germany.
do you also dont have any means to rewatch a race of the current season?
In germany, sky holds the rights to the current season, but apparently not for VoDs. VoDs are on F1TV, but as a german you cant subscribe to F1TV Premium and guess what you need to watch VoDs from the 22 season? F1TV Premium.
Its a fantastic shitshow.
What do you honestly expect from them? It is English commentary - of course, they will be biased toward the British drivers, even if they openly try to convince everyone that they are professional and therefore unbiased. It's like that in every single sport. If you want overwhelming emotions and celebrations go watch Dutch commentary.
It feels like there should be a suicide hotline on screen whenever Croft talks, though.
I’ve seen complaints the Dutch Viaplay commentary was all about de Vries and treated Max winning as a bit of a formality.
By now, Max winning is more of a given. I love that he's winning and showing his skills, but I would love it more if he had someone challenging him more than just on paper.
To be fair, by half way through that was mostly true
An excellent win for Max and Red Bull at Ferrari's home race!
Wtf I love Nyck DeFry now
Hear me out guys, to hell with this hamilton-verstappen-vendetta-picking sides-abudhabi-bullshit. Forget that moment existed, just for a second guys please.
Why is everyone so against "doing it for entertainment value". The sport already has some built in lottery with safety car timings and sudden retirements, why is a "entertainment" decision viewed differently? I agree that a driver shouldnt be favored. But Why cant we, the drivers , the teams think "oh yeah, safety car in the last laps, theyre probably gonna choose the most entertaining option and red flag the race to give the fans what they want, which is a 2 lap all out sprint on fresh tires". Forget who it favors for a second. Why is that controversial?
Indycar did it in the frickin indy 500, and it made for an amazing finish and a 100% worthy win for Marcus Ericsson. Marcus wouldve probably cruised to victory with no stress if it were f1 rules, but the decision to red flag the race and restart with a last second sprint, made it so much more entertaining, it made it a moment in which casual people fall in love with the sport and become fans.
Nobody falls in love with the race ending without actual racing, especially a boring kind of race like todays. Following the rules, and not beeing open to change them is dangerous, nascar did that, and then when they lost the majority of their viewers, they had to do something drastic and introduced stage racing, playoffs, and all kind of gimmicks. This fanboying over who it favors ruins the evolution of the sport imo.
We should petition to make races more entertaining. A decision made for entertainment ducks up your drivers race? Tough luck, its the same for everyone, next time he will be the one who benefits. Its like a referee in football calling a penalty kick when it was clearly a clean tackle. It happens. Its human error. It makes it fun.
I really want some kind of rule change that eliminates finishing under safety car. Either a automatic red flag if a safety car is called out within the last 5 laps or something. OR some kind of overtime thing in which after a safety car its mandatory that we get "5 minutes of racing". Or something of the like.
Thank you for coming to my TED talk. Im high and im rambling on, but cmon, i cant be the only one feeling this way.
No one has a problem with rules that make the sport more interesting. It’s literally why we have the 2022 cars. The problem is the idea that a sporting referee can make up or otherwise change the sporting rules mid match in the interests of making the sport “entertaining”.
For example: don’t want a race to end under safety car? Make a rule that a safety car in the last 5 laps = automatic red flag. The idea that, instead, a ref should just be able to do whatever s/he wants to make the sport “entertaining” is absurd. Participants must have consistent, clear, established, and easily understood rules against which they can train, work, plan, and execute for the sport to have any value to begin with.
I absolutely agree with your whole statement. You cannot move the goalposts, but you absoleutely can rule ehat is a goal and what is not, see Maradonas Hand of God, for example, it was totally lawful to rule that a goal, even if you might say it was a bad call. And there really wasnt anything in the rules stopping them from throwing the red flag on sunday. The rules are already in place. Like in football or any other sport the problem is usually interpretation of the rules and how stringent/loose one is.
They RULED that a safety car was enough. Nobody's saying this was the only way for the race to finish under current rules. Even under strict safety rules i tought that a red flag wouldve been justified with the tractor reversing on the track and dangling RICs car while the field drove by a mere meter or two away, one slip of concentration, or wrong press of a button and we might have another Japan Bianchi moment.
In my example of indy 500 its the same, they had a valid reason for both a full race caution til the checkered flag, and a red flag. They ruled for the more entertaining option.
But even the mere tought of it beeing for entertainment purposes in F1 is so sacrelige it seems, that you get these type of situations.
As long as they make specific rules and follow them for those situations, I am fine with it. If not, it looks like the decision is taken to favour somebody (even if it's not intended as so), and Abu Dhabi 2021 is a good example of it.
I wouldn't be opposed to a rule along the lines of "If a safety car-worthy incident happens after 80%+ of the race is completed, the race will be red flagged and restarted with a rolling start". In fact, I hope for some amendments with regards to SC and red flag rules to add some clarification and clearly define situations where a red flag is warranted and a SC is sufficient, so that a situation like Saudi Arabia 2021 does not happen either.
Last year would have been an epic finish if it was red flagged and there was a 1-2 lap sprint to finish
And it's arguably waaay more true to the rules than what we had
Imo it should be the new rule that's followed automatically.
Given that calling a Red Flag is pretty much just up to the digression of RD, if they did call it it wouldn't be breaking or bending any rules. Officially, it would just be an overreaction in the favour of safety which is much preferable to cutting corners at the cost of safety.snd integrity
Not bad ideas, it would be more entertaining. Obviously the rules would have to change after the season.
One thing that would worry me is teams being tempted to cause a red flag if it benefits them. I understand they can already do that with safety cars.
All that trouble for maybe 1-2% of races that currently finish under yellow? Nah.
I don't think teams would deliberately do this. See Singapore 2008 and Renault with the Alonso/Piquet Jr fiasco. Big slaps on the wrist with team members being fired and Renault almost being disqualified.
I agree with you though, leave the rules as they are. For the such infrequent time this occurs it's not worth changing. Sometimes it works in favor of whoever you support, other times it doesn't.
Bringing out the red flag will only result in a lengthy period between the red flag and the race restart (it always does) and probably draws the whole race length out by another 30 minutes.
Not gonna lie though, a 2/3 lap sprint would be fun on the odd occasion it happened.
I see F1 as I see golf and baseball. For the average person who doesn’t know the intricacies of the sport, it might look boring as hell. But the more you learn about it the more exciting it is, and the more you can appreciate “boring” races such as today’s (even though it was a good race by 2016-2020 standards).
I agree that the VSCs and safety cars are technically luck based, but that is just natural in the sport. If it were to be red flagged to ensure some laps of racing, it would be the equivalent of turning a marathon into a 2K sprint because of a technicality. Sure, it might be more “exciting” for the average viewer but it would completely negate the strategy and driving that happened for the majority of the race… which is what F1 is about at the end of the day.
> I agree that the VSCs and safety cars are technically luck based
Somebody made a good point on the live race thread, that VSC are meant to freeze the race in it's current state so you shouldn't be allowed to pit under them.
Timing of actually safety cars is always going to have a massive effect on the race result no matter the rules, but with VSC they really could remove an element of luck/make it fairer
Totally agree, it feels like after this race people act like this happens all the time. This is the 13th time a race has ended under SC in 500+ races.
We shouldn't manipulate the race for the sake of entertainment. F1 is more than just entertainment during the race. What happened yesterday is part of F1 even though it isn't the outcome people would like to see on TV.
In general, I completely agree with you. I haven't watched Nascar in years, but I know they used to have the green, white, checkered rule to prevent finishing under a yellow flag. I know that's a bit harder to implement in F1 due to the fuel rules and things like that, but I definitely think there needs to be something different. Finishing under yellow is fucking lame. I wouldn't have wanted to spend so much money for tickets, travel, lodging, food, etc to go to a race just to get a parade for the last five or however many laps it was. I'd be pissed. Maybe that two lap sprint, a la Nascar isn't the exact answer, but there's gotta be something better.
RedBull and Max dominating + the rest being miles off the top 3 has made it really boring.
There's no fight up front and it's hard to care about the midfield when they're 20 seconds behind a lackluster Mercedes car fighting for 8th place.
The only thing that’s been really bad about 22 has been the purposing. The FIA should have come up with a rule that would go into effect by mid season that limits the max vertical G a driver can experience due to purposing. Because that’s really, really bad for the sport.
"2020 was amazing for seeing different drivers on the podium"
Lol what? 8 out of 17 podium were some mix of ham-bot-ver. It was the season where everyone were making "ham-bot-ver" jokes because it was those 3 on the podium so often
Out of 51 podium spots in 2020, only *15* spots were not ham, bot, or ver
Recency bias. This is what dominance in F1 looks like.
I'd argue this season to be way more interesting than the years of Hamilton dominance or the years of Schumacher dominance. There, it was literally a guaranteed 1-2 from start to finish, with no other car coming even remotely near them.
This season is way less cut-and-dry. Ferrari would be able to compete for wins (if they could just stop screwing themselves over), Merc is almost there as well. RB as a car is not untouchable (see Perez). Max is just an absolute beast this year. He was always fast, but now he's less reckless, more consistent and drives like on rails.
What made 2014-2016 more interesting is the fact Rosberg was fighting Hamilton. While right now, Perez is simply not there.
Max can literally start from the pit Lane every race and win it’s so boring so it is worse than Hamilton dominance
Uhmm Hamilton could do the same in the 2014 - 2020 seasons... pretty sure those were more boring to watch except for the 2016 one and the first half of that one season where Ferrari with their shady engine were challenging them
No you couldn’t because of the shit regs that meant you couldn’t follow closely
2020 was literally always Mercedes’ + max. There wasn’t any competition for the 3rd podium spot. It was one of the most boring seasons in the history of F1. I still enjoyed it, but you’re remembering it differently lol there was no “battle for the last podium spot”. Max often beat Bottas but it was almost always those 3.
This season has been far better than 2020 and 2019.
2018 was the first full season I watched and the podium situation was the same. Checo in the Force India nabbed the only non Mercedes Ferrari and Red Bull podium in Azerbaijan
When SC was called, I switched to the UK Queens funeral drive through Scotland. Found it more interesting, so missed the end of the race...
Really says it all.
Modern Monza really is just a bit of a shit circuit for f1. Do something wild, reclaim part of the old circuit.
It's dreadful. All the overtakinf spots are just chuck-it-in-and-done, and nowhere aside from Curva Grande can they go side by side.
Quali is boring because the track is basic af, and the races are DRS trains and flybys for 2 hours.
Will they followed the rules this time. So that something.
Welp, looks like they did not go motor racing this time
I was told NdV wasn’t good enough for a seat in F1 when I had a theory that Toto was grooming him to succeed Lewis Hamilton and well here we are. Probably ending up on Williams. Mercedes continues to let Lewis drive in a wooden canoe and he still manages P5. I hope Merc makes the right decision and fully backs Lewis but I dunno.
I don't think that Merc is that bad at this point of the season? It stills seems to be somewhat off from the pace of RB / Ferrari, but it's showing more and more promise. Russell was faster on pace than Sainz during Spa or Zandvoort (he was catching a few tenths a lap) on the same tires. So while the car is still a solid #3, they seem to be reigning in that gap on performance and they look to be faster or on par with Ferrari on some tracks.
Hamilton took a hit at the start of the season to help speed up the development of the car, but since Monaco he has finished no lower than 5th (Sky Sports love to repeat that constantly about Russell). Even after starting at the back of the grid this weekend, he finished 5th. He very much still has it, and given a bit more development on the car he could be competing for wins again.
If they can put NdV in Williams for a couple years, they will see how well his development is going and evaluate his as a replacement for Hamilton in a couple years time. I think that's the best for both NdV and Mercedes (and Williams too, if they get rid of Latifi they might not be back of the grid anymore).
What a true breath of fresh air you are, thank you for your candor. I don’t think the W13 is bad as much as it’s in purgatory. I can see it’s fast enough to finish on the podium but getting in a straight up dogfight with Verstappen and Ferrari will end much like it did today.
My problem is I read a lot of tea leaves and Hamilton taking the performance hit and still being competitive only bothers me because bad actors are taking Russell’s form and looking at Hamilton wondering why he isn’t doing better despite driving “the same car”. Those who follow upgrades and development of W13 know that’s very untrue. The energy to make Russell the leader alongside Nyck de Vries driving in all of the Mercedes’ vehicles just kept adding more and more tea leaves for me to read. I do think Mercedes is an exceptional organization and I’m very happy for George Russell’s form and performance however I’m NOT happy with appearance of Mercedes looking to the future. It’s something you have to do to remain competitive but Lewis Hamilton is still a 7 time champion.
I'm a bit puzzled by the wording of your reply, it seems to be coated with irony somehow (It's hard to properly detect those things in a Reddit comment).
I've done a bit of research to see who would be the oldest driver in the modern era (past 2000), and it seems to be Michael Schumacher at 43 years old ([https://www.statsf1.com/en/statistiques/pilote/gp/age.aspx](https://www.statsf1.com/en/statistiques/pilote/gp/age.aspx)). Lewis Hamilton is 37 right now and while he can probably continue to drive for Mercedes for as long as he wants to, he is probably nearing the end of his career. Nobody knows when he will retire, probably not even himself at this point.
If Mercedes wants to stay among the top teams like they have been since 2013, they need to look to the future. Following this weekend, Nick de Vries has put himself as a promising driver in the future for the team. However, looking to the future does not mean looking to replace their star driver. I think Mercedes are pretty satisfied with both their drivers right now and will be happy to continue with them as long as they keep up their form. I'm convinced Mercedes will keep Hamilton until he is 50 or 60 if he keeps on being competitive in this sport.
No irony I’m all serious. I think I’m trying to sound less conspiratorial as I was because then it accuses Mercedes brass of other things and I don’t want to reply to you with such because you’ve brought such great knowledge in these replies. You’re absolutely right by the way about Mercedes plan of succession.
Russell drove the wooden canoe to the steps of the podium
Started second ended up third, do you want a clap
Still finished above Hamilton though LOL, Russell has been way more consistent this season
Your trolling unfortunately only exposes your lack of knowledge LOL
Results are results.
Happy for George he didn’t bottle it
Did Checo/RB say why they ended up pitting him toward the end of the race, rather than just finishing on the hards? Was it to snag FL from Leclerc? Or was there major deg?
my guess was that RB wanted to give Checo the chance to steal away fastest lap from Leclerc. Which Checo did in the lap before Ric parked his McLaren.
Well, he pitted on lap seven for those hards, so they obviously weren't in the best condition toward the end of the race (at least not in comparison with brand new tires for example Lando behind him had), and just like everyone else, Red Bull expected a restart, where new tires would come in handy, perhaps even earn him one position up.
tyre deg. Not shown in the live feed, but he explained his front tire got fire very early, and the hard suffered also... so it was expected that he would pit again.
They probably expected the race to restart.Doing a restart on a set of Hards would've been suicide since the guys around him were on softs.
Believe he came in before the SC
Yeah like 2-3 laps before
The end of this race was boring as shit but at least we actually stuck to the rules this time.
Why did some cars unlap themselves but not Bottas and Tsunoda, have we had any info on that yet?
That SC was very slow to deploy, and unlapping the lapped cars also took too long, So Frustrating for everyone!
I think Jolyon Palmer suggested a mandatory red flag for SC situations with less than 5 laps to go, I like that idea
I kinda like it too but then race starts are also really likely to have incidents so what do we do with another incident after the red flag? Just keep Red flagging?
NASCAR has something like that which could be used to guide an eventual rule. IIRC they have to do 2 laps after a restart before they get to the checkered flag, and if another caution comes out in the first lap they restart the procedure.
Now, fuel consumption is much tighter in F1, and the cars cannot refuel during the race so it is somewhat harder to do endless restarts. But it is a possibility.
The cars that went through were not lapped, they were on the lead lap. The safety car came out at an odd time and did not come out right in front of the leader (Max)
Ah right ok, guess Channel 4 commentary got it wrong. Alex Jacques was furious with the FIA
Gonna be honest, Hannah Schmitz coming in with the Daniel Ricciardo car failure at Lap 47 to secure the Red Bull win under yellow flag was a 1,000 IQ move I never saw coming.
Hats off to her for being the mastermind behind two incredible moves two weeks in a row. First, getting Alpha Tauri to crash, and now McLaren. How she does it? Nobody knows.
She needs to orchestrate a wdc deciding crash like biatore now.
She's paying 4D chess and everyone else is playing checkers
she told gasly to keep behind ricciardo so he would blow his engine trying to stay ahead
You forgot she engineered the winner's curse from 2019 onwards.
In fact George benefited the most from the safety car. So more like Toto promised him something
Ricciardo drove for RB in the past, and clearly he is an asset. Maybe they promised him a seat for next year, who knows.
he was bound for a top finish... it was his best race of the year!!! they probably offered Max's car next year.
And Kelly Piquet
The conspiracy theory was a lost opportunity to talk about the strategy details + how the race unfolded to better inform fans. Because the concept was absurd to begin with- RBR wasn’t even benefiting like the theory laid out.
I should make it clear: any person who believes any of these insane conspiracies is an absolute knob, to borrow an English phrase
There should be a rule if a SC is out within 5 laps before the race is finish, they can add another 5 new laps on top of it for the drivers to race it out.
This would never work because the cars are fueled for a standard race distance. Not a race distance + 5 laps
guess what, fuel them for 5 more laps?
They lose less fuel when they drive behind SC so should not be a problem
They’re still burning fuel and the distance would become a potentially big unknown at certain tracks / under certain conditions. Idea won’t work.
Yeah, throw the red flag immediately in any SC situation with less than 10 laps to go. Would keep them from the embarrassment of the safety car being on the Monza oval for 3 laps trying to pick up the field.
It really isn't an embarrassment, it's just the rules and isn't unheard of.
change the rules... we pay f1tvpro every month for this!!!
Yes you do. You pay yo watch a sport that has rules which mean you are also paying to watch those rules be enforced correctly. EG you knew what you were signing up for.
Also not like the last laps were going to be interesting pre-Ricciardo stop and 1 lap with two lapped cars between VER and LEC who not have been good racing. If they let lapped cars through that takes an entire lap to do and there goes your race again.
then again.. dont bend the rules. change them.
That’s the equivalent of asking for a penalty shootout in football whenever a match is bound to end up 0-0 after 90 minutes. Sure, the shootout would make it more “exciting” to watch, but it ignores the intricacies and strategies deployed during the whole event.
if teams are 1-1.. minute 89 and .player is injured I believe the referee will add 1.or 2 min of play after he leaves the field.. so, your example is totally on my side.
What other race have you seen where it took the SC 3+ laps to pick up the pack? Embarrassment. Had they got the pack picked up sooner, we may have been able to have a small sprint to the end. Not like it would matter much, Verstappen deserved the win. But as a fan, I don't pay to watch cars not race and wasting 3 laps trying to form the safety car queue is an embarrassment in my opinion
Well considering it took four in Saudi Arabia. Also in this one they didn't have the chance to unlap cars so there still would have been two cars a lap down between leclerc and verstappen anyway. The cars you saw pass through was because of the awkwardness of the safety card appointment not being in front of Max but instead being in front of George.
As a fan, you pay to watch formula 1 actually abide by its own safety rules.
It took 4 laps after getting behind the safety car. The SC boards were displayed on lap 47 or 48. Didn't pick up the field, and as you mentioned, didn't even pick up the correct car, until lap 51. They ran 3 laps with SC board out but no safety car in sight. That should be unacceptable. How is the SC not out at turn 1 chicane waiting for verstappen at lap 48 or 49 at worst?
change them... and keep them safe. add x laps after sc leaving.
Can't add laps (and I wouldn't want them to anyway) because of the refueling ban. I just don't want to see 3 laps wasted not racing and not being able to clear the track because the safety car can't find the leader to start to bunch the pack up.
you can ask teams to all have always fuel for 3 extra laps. or something... but to end like this, is bad showbussines
1) Just red flag it and do a restart under 10%. No more race finish on SC or tyre advantage.
2) let for f*n fu** sake lapped car park on the right and put the order back up. Why do they need to do the full lap and waste so much time. Just add+1 to their lap counter. Aren't we in 2022???
If they park on the right they don't unlap themselves, they technically lose even more laps.
Or just get rid of the safety car all together. Now that we have VSC, which is far superior for light track cleaning, why not make it VSC or Red flag? You only waste 2, maybe 3 laps for a red flag. Safety Car just wasted 7 of 53 laps. ~13% of the race distance.
think about fuel.
Also creates non-standard race distance. Races are based around 300KM distance raced and that would fuck with it.
oh no. imagin driving 320km. what a disaster.
So what? Who gives a fuck? People pay a big price to go see a race and you give them a bad show because of technicality and bad organization??
The last couple of laps would just be cars running out of gas.
Which actually would be interesting to see at least once.
My point is to red flag it. Lapped car are added+1 lap but who cares
NASCAR does this and are ridiculed for it.
Why though? They got a lot wrong today but if the race genuinely can't restart then why should it? Today Verstappen was something like 17 seconds ahead with a few laps to go. Why should a car breaking down guarantee that the guy behind gets a go at it?
Because a car breaking down midway through the race does the exact same thing and people didn't pay to watch the safety car win the race
Just want to see the deployment of the safety car decide the result? It's a problem that it happens at other points in the race but something we have to live with. That's not a reason to call for it when the laps run out.
I'm not a fan of the safety car in general though. If you give me the option of 5 laps under the safety car to bunch up the field and restart the race or 3 laps to red flag, clear the track and restart the race, I'll take the latter every time. VSC is the best but why not just use red flags for anything a VSC can't cover?
The problem with red flags is how long they take. Once you signal a red flag you are looking at a minimum of 15 - 20 minute delay as all the drivers get out of the var and are given a 10 minute warning before the race restarts. It's usually a munch longer delay and at that point sometimes it's better just to let the race end.
Sounds like something that could be changed in the rules if they change rules to annex the safety car. Make it standard protocol that race control will inform teams whether it is a quick red flag in which case drivers are not allowed out of the car and teams are not allowed to make changes because they will only give a 90 seconds restart warning or a long/traditional red flag.
I think vsc is the worst of all worlds. All megatives from a full sc without the added bonus of some restart shenanigans.
Exactly. Under 5 lap just stop the race and do a restart. Specially in country that are well organized and can move a parked park under an hour.
How about if a safety car is needed in the last 5 laps, red flag immediately and resume when clear to do so. Remove the option to change tires under red and let it play out?
They'd have to disallow any tire changes and then do a rolling start for this to be fair, but I could support it.
No. I want my races to end early and the cars to do a 5 lap victory lap... very slow victory laps with the safety car on front. We love seeing the green safety car cross first the checkered flight am I right?
It is part of the sport. I understand that its good for F1 to have excitement, but honestly that's not the spirit of the sport. Its a slow burn. How many races end with the leader 20 seconds ahead of second place? Why is that any less boring to you than a safety car.
If you want shootouts and excitement go watch NASCAR. And I don't mean that as a derogatory.
I would rather have a race shortened by a few laps than a manufactured 1 lap shootout in F1. To me its more representative of the race.
Pretty sure the safety car has more points this season than either of the AM drivers this season. This is the content we come for in F1. Forget all that driver's championship nonsense, give me the safety car world championship. It's a close battle but the Aston has the edge over the AMG.
Uhhh. Saucy. Can't wait for all the drama in Drive to Survive. Toto going "the Aston SC is driving too fast. That fucker". SCWC is something I would pay to watch. I disagree on Aston having the edge though since the AMG SC had some purple sectors to boast in the last race. It's a good car but the updates haven't helped it much. Just wait and it will prove you wrong. #hillIamwillingtodieon
Not allowing to change tires is not good. You could have a damaged car that needs tires.
Both IndyCar and NASCAR do not allow any modifications, including tire changes, when a red flag comes out without getting penalized for doing so. Why couldn't F1 adopt a similar rule? Change tires as precaution: pit lane restart (or sent to the back for a rolling restart)
I mean if they're running on flats or pick up a puncture on the way to the pits, of course they should be allowed to swap tires. That's a safety thing and is required to stay in the race. Idk if not allowing tire change would make anything better, but it would reward teams that git strategy right up until the red.
Honestly you could just give everyone a fresh set of softs for the restart and just let everyone send it the last few laps.
Perhaps. The FIA is a big organization, I’m sure they can figure something out.
Would the cars have enough fuel for that?
Maybe 2-3 more laps perhaps? Finishing with SC is so anti-climatic.
Why in the world did McLaren pit Lando under the last safety car?
Because nobody thought the safety car would be circling the Monza oval looking for the field to pick up
Assuming there would be a one lap shootout they wanted fresh rubber when the pack is bunched up.
Lmfao latifi gtfo here
Christian Horner mentioned the safety car picked up (or picked up behind) George Russell. What does that mean, and what would the difference have been had it done so with Verstappen or Leclerc?
Hopefully, I don't butcher this or make it confusing...
The competitor/driver's procedure under SC is to eventually have the car running P1 drive directly behind the SC with P2, P3, P4, and so on, to key behind one another in racing order before they can go racing again. The safety car has orange and green lights mounted on its roof as a light bar, and the FiA (SC driver) can change between the colors. Orange signifies no overtaking, drive at reduced speeds, and follow/lineup behind the SC. The green light notifies/allows racers to pass the safety car - usually to allow lapped cars to unlap themselves and line up in the positions they are running.
With that, IIRC, the SC came out ahead of RUS and turned on their orange light, thus not allowing RUS to pass, but the problem was he wasn't running P1 but rather P3. That was the safety car "picking him up," to use Horner's nomenclature. The SC picked up RUS for longer than they should, before realizing they needed to go green and let him/others pass so they could line up behind the car running P1 (Verstappen). It would have been the same problem had they done it to Leclerc. It would have been/was the correct procedure when Verstappen was behind.
I think they did so because they had to go past the tractor.
I have no idea why they didn't red flag with the tractor on track. That's the real scandal imo.
The tractor only came on when there was a clear gap in the field, allowing for it to be deployed safely. When Russell was not allowed to pass, there were 3 marshalls around RIC car, nothing more.
By the time the cars went around with the tractor in the right side of the track, the safety car had already picked up the entire field, so no safety issue there.
Watch it again. There were definitely cars getting really close and braking a bit too late for my liking. Imo if a tractor is on track the race should be red flagged. Zero compromise in safety concerns means zero compromise.
When Latifi went by in lap 50, not in the SC queue, there was no tractor. When he came back round, just getting to the back of the queue, RIC's car was already being carried back. IMO it was a fine use of the SC, no cars went by a tractor outside of the SC queue.
So? We have seen spins in the safety car queue on the straight, spin in to the tractor and best case a few people are badly injured.