I still believe outside of F1 rallying is the absolute best motorsport to get cool, affordable road cars noticed and bring them up close and personal to racing fans. The GR Yaris has been an absolute hit and the i20N is amazing too, I love the Puma Rally1 as well so it's a shame the drivers are really struggling at M-Sport right now
F1 isnt a place to introduce anything affordable, its way more elitist than any other type of motorsport
On the second argument i agree, so many rally cars have trinkled down to the roads in some way, many of those have been dream cars and inspired young people for generations (hell, i wish i had money to buy any Subaru WRX but those things are very expensive now, specially the older ones)
F1 is probably the worst motorsport to get cool, affordable road cars noticed lol
I mean just look at this era's road cars that involved an F1 team like the AM Valkyrie, or the AMG One
They're all limited edition, multi million dollar hypercars
Yeah I kind of worded it poorly haha, what I was trying to communicate is that in terms of motorsport outside of F1/open wheel racing I think rallying truly is the best motorsport nowadays to get cars that even just look like road cars noticed (especially considering outside of a few countries touring cars is really struggling), it's a shame WRC only has 3 manufacturers but Rally2 is really strong worldwide (and seriously made me consider a Skoda RS for my next road car)
God those Quattros are so cool, Vettel getting a ride in one at RoC earlier this year was an absolute highlight. The fact they brought 4WD to WRC when everyone else thought it was a ridiculous idea was insane
Can we get a VW brand back in top flight rallying please as well
They forgot a legend.. the Audi 90 IMSA GTO. After being successful with the 200 Trans-Am they straight up were fast in IMSA GTO. They almost snatched the title in there first season there. A Quattro with an Inline 5 cylinder Turbo. Pretty much alien to the V8 rwd dominated US car scene. Audi again and again proved that they can innovate and compete on a high level straight away. They also were the first to win Le Mans with a Diesel engine.
The Audi 90 IMSA GTO was beast beast, It was the definition of the "Unfair Advantage" the Quattro system it had made it unbeatable under any condition and the teams complained that the Quattro cars were sandbagging early in the race and then turning it on late in the race to win, that car was so dominant it was banned eventually
They for sure knew how to tango with the technical regulations. "You put yout foot on the throttle and could use the power INSTANTLY!". The sound is in the top 10 of best sounding racecar for me.
Yeah that car poured fuel onto the rulebook then lit the rulebook on fire with a flame thrower and then sat around and watched it burn and then danced on its remains it didnt give a shit about the rules, it was there to win
The only other car that did something like that...well...pissed fire onto the rulebook actually was the 1973 Porsche 917/30 Spyder, which 13 years before F1 zenith of Turbo madness in the 1980s had 1580bhp in qualifying trim and 1100bhp in race trim and that was one of the reasons why Can-Am was killed off and they brought about a 3mpg (US) fuel reg to ban that car outright from the series but the damage was done
Don't remind me of that 917/30 Can-Am Monster. Wonder what drugs you have to take to consider it a good idea to climb in a bathtub of fuel with 200 liters to your right and 200 liters too the left. Protected by the tank.
You had to be fearless to drive that monster that car was built at the request of Mark Donohue to obliterate all opponents and Porsche said "Consider it done" and they made a monster out of their Le Mans car, apparently it had two Truck turbochargers attached to it to get the 2.7 bar of boost to get that 1600bhp figure from that engine
What's also funny was that they trialled a V16 engine and Mark said that if the V16 had the turbos on it from the Flat 12 it would have made over 2000BHP!
Yes and the Australians gave the R32 GTR its nickname of "GODZILLA" and I believe it was down to the soaking wet 1992 Bathurst 1000....which completed 143 of the 161 laps
Also sadly it was the last race for the 1967 F1 World Champion Denny Hulme who died from a heart attack on the Conrod Straight from what I recall as well...
Group B was the top class in WRC from 1982-1986, one of the things people get mixed up is the original Quattros (before Yellow) were actually under Group 4 regs, the first Group B car was the Lancia 037
Group B was a set of regulations that the WRC used from 1982-1986. Think of how people refer to the “turbo hybrid era” in F1. It’s a set of regulations.
There is a famous quote about this from Juha Kankkunen "WRC is for boys, Group B was for men (and one wild woman)"
That "and one wild woman" was for Michelle Mouton who ALMOST won the 1982 WRC drivers title if it had not been for the passing of her dad and a few more mishaps for the Human Computer Walter Rohrl she would have been champion
Group B was 600bhp flame spitting cars that rivalled the acceleration of Formula 1 cars of their day, it was brought to a very tragic end by the horrific deaths of Henri Toivonen and Sergio Cresto at the Corsican Rally in 1986
Toyota, Honda and BMW didn‘t have that motorsport pedigree though. BMW only to some extent as an engine manufacturer in the 80s and one le Mans win in 1999, but they were also quite competitive after only one season in 2007 in comparison to Toyota or Honda.
Audi is consistently competitive in everything they touch in the last 40 years except for the last 4 ironically, the Diesel scandal did cost them.
In the sense of works teams or own constructions, not just engine suppliers. Obviously Honda and BMW had successfull
years as those but none of them had dominant runs like Audi at le Mans or other big series.
Great point, I think though it's alot harder for any new team to hit the ground running in F1 due to the limited testing. I think new manufacturers are given more time thought to help catch themselves up.
I hope I am wrong because this could open the door for the battles between Privateer and Factory teams
Other racing series have much less in common with F1 like gt racing or rally, but WEC, even though its not open wheel, is the 2nd fastest series in the world next to F1. Those cars have tons of aero and have hybrid power units, so Audis Lmp1 experience will help them in F1 for sure way more than any other experience.
Very true. Those diesel Audis got me into endurance racing, I was a diesel mechanic then and that was just the coolest shit. All that torque out of a corner vs the Penske’s ability to rev out made for a great race dynamic
Not all join with the realistic expectation or investment to win.
I can't imagine an Audi entry would be cutting corners like Renault or Honda for example did where you never felt they were fully committed.
I imagine a Mercedes style takeover where it is do what it takes to be competitive.
The Quattro is still one of the best cars of all time. Peak Audi
I still believe outside of F1 rallying is the absolute best motorsport to get cool, affordable road cars noticed and bring them up close and personal to racing fans. The GR Yaris has been an absolute hit and the i20N is amazing too, I love the Puma Rally1 as well so it's a shame the drivers are really struggling at M-Sport right now
F1 isnt a place to introduce anything affordable, its way more elitist than any other type of motorsport On the second argument i agree, so many rally cars have trinkled down to the roads in some way, many of those have been dream cars and inspired young people for generations (hell, i wish i had money to buy any Subaru WRX but those things are very expensive now, specially the older ones)
F1 is probably the worst motorsport to get cool, affordable road cars noticed lol I mean just look at this era's road cars that involved an F1 team like the AM Valkyrie, or the AMG One They're all limited edition, multi million dollar hypercars
Yeah I kind of worded it poorly haha, what I was trying to communicate is that in terms of motorsport outside of F1/open wheel racing I think rallying truly is the best motorsport nowadays to get cars that even just look like road cars noticed (especially considering outside of a few countries touring cars is really struggling), it's a shame WRC only has 3 manufacturers but Rally2 is really strong worldwide (and seriously made me consider a Skoda RS for my next road car)
And it still got outclassed by some pesky French car. Those damn Frenchmen.
Was it a Peugeot?
Yeah, the 205 T16 replaced the Quattro S1 as the de facto Group B car after 1984
Damn. Makes me so sad knowing how cool Peugeot used to be versus what they are now.
Yeah, similar story with Lancia, record rally champions reduced to a caricature these days
Lancia made some of the best care of all time then fucked off.
I mean Peugeot are now completing at Le Mans along with Ferrari, Porsche and Toyota and BMW
The one time France actually beat Germany, or any country other than themselves for that matter
[удалено]
World champs in eating disgusting shit yeah.
Pikes Peak Audi even
Lost to a WRD car in a rally championship though.
God those Quattros are so cool, Vettel getting a ride in one at RoC earlier this year was an absolute highlight. The fact they brought 4WD to WRC when everyone else thought it was a ridiculous idea was insane Can we get a VW brand back in top flight rallying please as well
[Wallpaper material](https://i.imgur.com/cwuJ6lT.jpg)
The Bosch ads really ruin that car for me, so in your face
They forgot a legend.. the Audi 90 IMSA GTO. After being successful with the 200 Trans-Am they straight up were fast in IMSA GTO. They almost snatched the title in there first season there. A Quattro with an Inline 5 cylinder Turbo. Pretty much alien to the V8 rwd dominated US car scene. Audi again and again proved that they can innovate and compete on a high level straight away. They also were the first to win Le Mans with a Diesel engine.
The Audi 90 IMSA GTO was beast beast, It was the definition of the "Unfair Advantage" the Quattro system it had made it unbeatable under any condition and the teams complained that the Quattro cars were sandbagging early in the race and then turning it on late in the race to win, that car was so dominant it was banned eventually
They for sure knew how to tango with the technical regulations. "You put yout foot on the throttle and could use the power INSTANTLY!". The sound is in the top 10 of best sounding racecar for me.
Yeah that car poured fuel onto the rulebook then lit the rulebook on fire with a flame thrower and then sat around and watched it burn and then danced on its remains it didnt give a shit about the rules, it was there to win The only other car that did something like that...well...pissed fire onto the rulebook actually was the 1973 Porsche 917/30 Spyder, which 13 years before F1 zenith of Turbo madness in the 1980s had 1580bhp in qualifying trim and 1100bhp in race trim and that was one of the reasons why Can-Am was killed off and they brought about a 3mpg (US) fuel reg to ban that car outright from the series but the damage was done
Don't remind me of that 917/30 Can-Am Monster. Wonder what drugs you have to take to consider it a good idea to climb in a bathtub of fuel with 200 liters to your right and 200 liters too the left. Protected by the tank.
You had to be fearless to drive that monster that car was built at the request of Mark Donohue to obliterate all opponents and Porsche said "Consider it done" and they made a monster out of their Le Mans car, apparently it had two Truck turbochargers attached to it to get the 2.7 bar of boost to get that 1600bhp figure from that engine What's also funny was that they trialled a V16 engine and Mark said that if the V16 had the turbos on it from the Flat 12 it would have made over 2000BHP!
Similar to what happened to the Nissan GTR R32 in Australian Group A
Yes and the Australians gave the R32 GTR its nickname of "GODZILLA" and I believe it was down to the soaking wet 1992 Bathurst 1000....which completed 143 of the 161 laps Also sadly it was the last race for the 1967 F1 World Champion Denny Hulme who died from a heart attack on the Conrod Straight from what I recall as well...
Remind me, was that the Le Man's with Webber or did that come later?
Mark was with Porsche when they entered with the 919. 2014 or 15 I believe.
The R18 looks soooo good
Wait. Does Group B counts as WRC or?
Group B was the top class in WRC from 1982-1986, one of the things people get mixed up is the original Quattros (before Yellow) were actually under Group 4 regs, the first Group B car was the Lancia 037
Group B was a set of regulations that the WRC used from 1982-1986. Think of how people refer to the “turbo hybrid era” in F1. It’s a set of regulations.
There is a famous quote about this from Juha Kankkunen "WRC is for boys, Group B was for men (and one wild woman)" That "and one wild woman" was for Michelle Mouton who ALMOST won the 1982 WRC drivers title if it had not been for the passing of her dad and a few more mishaps for the Human Computer Walter Rohrl she would have been champion Group B was 600bhp flame spitting cars that rivalled the acceleration of Formula 1 cars of their day, it was brought to a very tragic end by the horrific deaths of Henri Toivonen and Sergio Cresto at the Corsican Rally in 1986
You mean Wonder Woman aka Michele Mouton?
Yes you would be correct on that
and in F1, this means nothing as past manufacturers have come to realize
Toyota, Honda and BMW didn‘t have that motorsport pedigree though. BMW only to some extent as an engine manufacturer in the 80s and one le Mans win in 1999, but they were also quite competitive after only one season in 2007 in comparison to Toyota or Honda. Audi is consistently competitive in everything they touch in the last 40 years except for the last 4 ironically, the Diesel scandal did cost them.
> Toyota, Honda and BMW didn‘t have that motorsport pedigree though. What in the actual historic fuck of commenting did I just witness here
In the sense of works teams or own constructions, not just engine suppliers. Obviously Honda and BMW had successfull years as those but none of them had dominant runs like Audi at le Mans or other big series.
Great point, I think though it's alot harder for any new team to hit the ground running in F1 due to the limited testing. I think new manufacturers are given more time thought to help catch themselves up. I hope I am wrong because this could open the door for the battles between Privateer and Factory teams
Toyota and Honda had plenty of pedigree before joining F1…
Honda in particular
Especially if you include bikes with Repsol Honda's 19 MotoGP riders championships
Absolutely agree, this had to be the most ignorant comment I've ever seen
Honda competes in most motorsports iirc. Saying Honda has no motorsport pedigree is just straight up alarming.
Other racing series have much less in common with F1 like gt racing or rally, but WEC, even though its not open wheel, is the 2nd fastest series in the world next to F1. Those cars have tons of aero and have hybrid power units, so Audis Lmp1 experience will help them in F1 for sure way more than any other experience.
The poster is missing the TurboDiesel ALMS cars! Allan Mcnish drove the hell outta that thing
Yeah, people only ever look at Audis rally history and occasionally their Le Mans history weirdly
Very true. Those diesel Audis got me into endurance racing, I was a diesel mechanic then and that was just the coolest shit. All that torque out of a corner vs the Penske’s ability to rev out made for a great race dynamic
By 2030: No Wins. No Podiums. "We're pulling out of Formula 1:"
Source: [Formula 1 Twitter](https://twitter.com/F1/status/1563119965707726848)
Audi don't enter something unless they plan on winning it.
That’s the same for every manufacturer. Do you think people join with the goal of losing?
There is a certain red team that makes people believe that.
Not all join with the realistic expectation or investment to win. I can't imagine an Audi entry would be cutting corners like Renault or Honda for example did where you never felt they were fully committed. I imagine a Mercedes style takeover where it is do what it takes to be competitive.
HAAS aren't out to win, they're just there for publicity. They want to be competitive in the midfield, they aren't there to win a championship