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Looks meaner without any colour accents

Facts.

I thought it was a regular Instagram post about Lewis doing what he loves (in context of getting back to the podium) and was genuinely scratching my head at all the Mick Schumacher comments until I saw the bright yellow helmet isn't Lewis'

Damn everyone in the comments acting like hes worse than Narain Karthikeyan, at least hes in a car

He's not his father and that's okay. I've seen too many people calling him "worst of the grid" or only recalling his crashes and bad races. It's almost as if many people have forgotten he was doing relatively well in the second half of last year. I'd love to see him back on the grid but I don't think it'll happen in 2024, lot of driver pairings seem pretty locked in unless Alonso or Hamilton call it a day (which I doubt) or Bottas really falls down the order (Mick to Sauber, retained for the incoming Audi partnership perhaps?) Here's hoping his time at Mercedes continues to shape him as a driver and he can get back on the grid. Naysayers will cry that it is copium and that he’s had his chance, but I just want to see the Schumacher name back on the grid. He deserves another go. Were people so eager to throw Ocon under the bus when he was dropped at Force India? How about Hülkenberg at Renault? What happened to the opinion that Vandoorne wasn’t given a proper chance thanks to a shitbox McLaren?

> Were people so eager to throw... Yes. There are always people keen to throw under performing (actual or perceived) drivers under the bus. There are so few seats that it is super easy to rationalise that perez / de Vries / Sargeant should be out and Ricciardo /Schumacher / Gio / Kubica / Drugovich/ iwasa / Lawson / Vips / Pourchaire / half the F2 grid should be back in. Plenty were ready to throw all of those drivers under the bus and more.

Exactly well written, he's doing better with mercedes, shows you what a good mentor is and it makes a difference to a drivers confidence

Dudes don’t know who Nikita Mazepin is? Literally crashed over half the races in 2021

I would guess a large part of it was the narrative in Drive to Survive.

Sargeants crashed the car more in the 6 races than mick in the couple of years he was at HAAS.

Yellow helmets in that car look so damn good.

Mick Schuis helmet colours relate to his family and the stars on top relate to his dad michael

That's nice, Lewis has the stars for his wdcs too which is pretty cool, the 2 goats with 7. Something about the yellow with the black car though, looks really cool.

If Mick had a different surname we wouldn’t be having this discussion. He would be another newbie who tried but wasn’t good enough to stay. There has been lots over the years (less so now as the back markers are often filled with pay drivers). He seems a lovely guy but not a good driver sadly.

His results in lower formulas beg to differ - also his first two years within the sport were in very strange and unstable environments. Imagine making the same judgement if George Russel after 2 years in the sport - look how he’s developed as a driver to today (admittedly has a long way to go)

Russell at Williams was insanely impressive. He got that car into places it never belonged and he was well received. Mick's greatest achievement is winning the WDC (Destructors) twice. During the roughest period for the poorest team on the grid.

Russell in Williams was impressive in his third year, in his second year he only scored points in the dominant car as a sub. Haas not only don't provide a healthy environment for their drivers (they don't even have a sim), but they didn't let Mick cook. He was getting better in the second part of the last season, stopped crashing and was beating Kevin. He is definitely not as good as Micheal, Lewis, Seb and Fernando, but he's not that bad as people here shit on.

I’m Russell’s first year, he out qualified Kubica in every single quali session and scored many many p11s. Mick was never that impressive.

That's true, but Robert was not good since his accident and it was a miracle that he returned to f1 plus williams made it harder for him and didn't adjust the steering wheel to his liking. It would be a shock if George didn't beat Robert that year.

>but they didn't let Mick cook. Forget about that, when it mattered and hass had a good car he didn't perform. He was shat on by someone who was out of F1 for an year and called in last minute. But it didn't stop there, he also caused some extreme crashes during that period. His chance was in the first half of the year when hass had a competitive car and he blew it. In F1 many drivers get fired due reasons out of their control. Mick is not one of them.

Performance in lower tiers doesn't always equate to performance in F1

*side-eyes DeVries*

yea just look at vandoorne lol

George (largely) crushed it from the git go. Not sure how they can be compared

No, actually, his results in lower formulae don’t beg to differ unless you selectively look at just the second halves of 2018 and 2020 Looking instead at his entire performance over f3 and f2 (and the context of these performances) offers a much more nuanced and mixed picture.

His name is Schumacher, and he still couldn't get a drive... Tells you a lot about his driving ability stock in the paddock, even if you personally disagree.

It says more about the current climate of the paddock, the number of drivers locked into lengthy contracts, and the number of pay drivers filling positions right now, if anything.

That's right look at Lance stroll for example, not performing but his dad owns the team, bit hard to kick him out

Stroll is a much better driver than Mick

Russell almost won a race his second year. Mick crashed in practice multiple times his second year. They aren’t the same at all.

>Russell almost won a race his second year. 3rd year, and russel had the best car by a mile, Mick had a shit box. but if you want to compare their 2nd years, Mick did a lot more points, but a lot more than him on that trash car and trash team. And didn't do more due to shitty tatics from the team.

Russell was a rookie in 2019 Sakhir 2020 took place in …. 2020 Russell’s second year And it’s beyond dishonest to compare their second years, when Russell was in the 2020 Williams …..and mick was in a car that scored substantial points starting from the very beginning of the season, a car that had him in points-paying position till he binned it in Miami, and a car which magnussen put on pole. If mick in 2022 *didn’t* have more points than Russell in 2020 under those circumstances, his ever having been a formula 1 driver would be ludicrous.

> a car which magnussen put on pole of all the disingenuous takes on the subject, this one is near the top

There are very few worlds where the last place car by a mile - such as the 2020 Williams - would have been on pole in those changeable conditions. When was the last time an actual backmarker worst-of-the-worst car, instead of a midfield car, was able to take advantage of changeable conditions and snag pole? Exactly. Last year’s haas was a midfield car. Magnussen was running in the top 10 for q1 and q2 even before the red flag dries crossover circumstances of q3. It was already a strong performance. 1) not at all comparable to the 2020 Williams in its handling or technical underpinnings 2) where was mick in that entire session? Therefore yes…. mick damn well should’ve scored more points last year than Russell in 2020. and his doing so isn’t any indication that he actually maximized his opportunities or the car’s capacity.

> When was the last time an actual backmarker […] was able to […] snag pole I mean, literally the year prior a Williams—which was widely recognized as the worst car on the grid—podiumed because of changing conditions and a red flag. But nobody is going to take that as proof that Latifi or even Russell should have consistently been in the points. It was a fluke pole; we know it, Haas knows it, K-Mag knows it. Sure, he had a strong quali performance, but there is simply zero chance he takes that pole on merit in virtually any other circumstance. I’m not going to argue whether or not Mick ‘deserves’ a seat. But you can make your case without relying on that pretty spurious argument.

Mick also had half the points of his teammate while costing millions to a team that wasn’t able to reach the cost cap. All because of unforced errors. There’s a reason one of them is a potential future WDC and the other is a reserve driver.

You have fallen to the Steiner bullshit narrative and fail to see how shitty he is as a TP. It's valid criticism to say that Mick crashed more than his teammate while scoring less points, but who fucking cares about them not reaching the cost cap? This is F1, pinnacle of motorsport, if you don't have the money to be at the cost cap then gtfo and sell the team, this isn't a charity event.

Every crash literally took money away from the development of the car. It has nothing to do with Gunther. Haas also hit the cap this year and got a driver that’s already outperforming Mick so it’s all pretty irrelevant.

Alot of micks troubles stemmed from Hass and bad environment he's was in, that would dent any drivers confidence. Now micks with Mercedes he can see how a good supportive team works

Likewise if he didn’t have the surname less people would probably dismiss him so easily. I don’t know why people are so passionate about beating him down every time he’s mentioned. At the very least he’s a likeable guy so people enjoy hearing about him

Yes I don't know why steiner keeps having a go at mick, even now. Is it steiner using micks name to get noticed and make money

Nah he just got screwed with the poorest team on the grid

He got screwed by crashing every other week?

Leclerc crashed this year more then Schumacher did.

When Leclerc crashes he gets shit for it too. However, Schumacher cost Haas way more than Leclerc does for Ferrari

Yes but I was just comparing the amount of crashes only here.

OP says he got screwed by Haas and therefor he was fired. I say he crashed a lot. Now you bring Leclerc to the discussion, not sure how that helps the discussion.

2 big crashes, 2

You're forgetting Japan. He also crashed multiple times in 2021.

Oh yeah I did, but at least those were difficult conditions. In 2021 he drove in one of the worst cars in recent years in his rookie season, you can't really fault him much for trying to outdrive the car.

Well, you certainly can if you're Haas. I don't understand why everyone is on the defense for Mick: he crashed really often and wasn't that fast. Yes, he was beating Magnussen from time to time in the second half of the year, but if you don't bring anything special I can totally see why Haas moved on from him. Haas was very bad the last few years, but Mick had so many weekends where he either underperformed or wrecked his car... Just bring the car home if you're not fast enough, that was what Haas was asking from him at least.

He had two (2) weekends where he wrecked the car, and I think Saudi only happens because they built a death trap surrounded by concrete barriers. He didn’t beat Magnussen “time to time” he finished ahead of him in 14 of 22 races, the only reason it looks like Magnussen did so much better was P5 in Bahrain where he got 10 of his 25 points. Also it’s worth noting that Magnussen was a better qualifier (15-7), but Mick’s race pace was far superior. So yes, if Haas had better funding, the two (2) crashes wouldn’t have been as big a deal. Gunther has managed to convince a lot of people that Mick was far worse than he was, when in reality Mick was a solid driver in a car that wasn’t that competitive all things considered. Haas strategy screwed him out of points a few times, and he would’ve finished P8 in the Austrian Sprint if Magnussen allowed him to keep DRS. So yeah, Mick got screwed by the circumstances of his team, had he gotten the Alfa Romeo seat in 2021 I think there’s a good chance he’s still in the sport

And to add to this, it’s not just Mick that got screwed by strategy. KMag did too (Hungary and going on the awful hards comes to mind) and now the same is happening to Hulkenberg. Haas is just a really poorly ran team as a whole, but when things go wrong it’s easiest for them to blame the drivers. I do wonder what happens with that team once they merge with Alfa Romeo, perhaps Steiner gets the sack.

also Mick got screwed by the team in at least 3 races where he could have score if not for the idiotic tatics.

He performed poorly and we can disagree on that, but you’re leaving out that he crashed many times in 2021 and not in but after FP3 in Japan. While he knew he needed to perform, he crashed while the session is over. Mick was the worst or even bad, but if you bring nothing special to the table and crash too many times, it’s totally right that Haas gave him the boot. Yes, Haas were terrible too, but it’s F1 so when you don’t perform you’re out, easy as that. He had two (2) seasons and that’s more than a lot of other talented drivers get.

That 2021 Haas genuinely made me realise putting 4 wheels on an engine doesn’t make it a car.

Honestly which more talented driver from the last 5-10 years got less seasons than him? The only one I can think of is Vandoorne which is still debatable. Especially in the last few years more mediocre drivers had a longer time in the sport, someone like Gio had 3 seasons in F1 while barely showing anything promising in a better car and team than Schumacher had.

I'm not blaming Haas for letting him go, I very much dislike them for talking so much shit about him when they had a strategy department that was even worse than Ferrari with the worst pit crew on the grid. Haas was just an awful team to be in for a rookie and they couldn't afford a developing driver. But this is as a response to someone saying that he doesn't even deserve any chances to redeem himself.

Please do tell which are those every other weeks?

Highly disagree. He showed a lot of talent in many races last season. The only reason he’s not in a car right now was the cost of fixing the car in the incidents where he pushed too hard. He has the ability to be a great driver and has shown it on multiple occasions

And he didn't even crash that much, he had 2 big incidents in 2022, and finished ahead of KMag in 14 out of 22 races.

The only reason micks not in a car now is because Hass held up deciding what to do untill after all the seats had gone...mick had rides lined up but Hass was holding him up

It might also be the opposite. Noone would care about his crashes but people would see the rise in form during the second year. They would probably be impressed with his first season as well

I don't get the love for Mick, he had his shot and didn't impress. Doesn't strike me as any different to people like Jolyon Palmer or Stoffel Vandoorne. innoffensive but innefective F1 drivers.

> Stoffel Vandoorne. If he's another Stoffel I'd give him another chance. He was pretty good in his 2017 McLaren stint vs Alonso.

Stoffel had two seasons though

He was beating Kmag in races in second half of the season not sure how he didn’t deserve one more year

Ask the teams. Nobody was willing to give him a seat despite his last name.

Didn’t Alpha Tauri want to talk to him but Steiner was still saying he might keep his seat? There was definitely teams interested.

Steiner played that dirty double game where he made it seem like Mick was keeping the seat while shittalking him all the time in the public to ensure he didn't get another seat. That way he had him for next year but then if he wanted to fire him, he wouldn't look bad.

Yeah steiner stuffed micks Chances. Other teams could see it was the Hass environment affecting mick

Exactly

They were giving him seats but Hass mucked mick around until it was to late to get a seat

well Hulk has been far better than Mick so far, his qualis have been unreal.

You don’t get points on Quali

Alright if you wanna talk points, Hulk already has half of Mick's points from all of last year after 6 races and he's currently beating Kmag on points which Mick did not do.

Hulk got his points from one race, and it was Australia. One lucky race does not make a good driver.

The Haas isn't exactly in point fighting contention, they're gonna need a bit of luck for probably every point they earn this season. I like Mick a lot, and last year I thought he was hard done by the same as the comment said, it was just a couple crashes that made him look bad but he was fighting Kmag toward the end. However, this year, Hulk has looked really good I think, and since seeing him back in races I now think that it was the correct move.

Yeah and look how Steiner treating Kevin mag now, not good...

Because he couldn't keep the car on the track and was costing haas more than he was worth.

It sounds like you are just regurgitating Haas propaganda. Mick had two bad crashes early in the year that were expensive...once you are past those though, he had no DNF's the rest of the season other than a mechanical failure. All while regularly outpacing his very seasoned teammate. This idea that he goes out and does nothing but finish 19th and destroy cars is kind of ridiculous.

I really do not understand why Reddit has lost all capability for middle ground with Mick, in the span of weeks. As silly as the people saying he didn't show anything impressive at all are, as silly it is to deny that his accident-proness. He wasn't terrible, he wasn't spectacular, he had a mediocre season against Magnussen. It's undeniable that Steiner took a personal disliking and didn't provide him with any sort of support which is important for young drivers, but also it's undeniable that people with better seasons found themselves out of a seat. Does he deserve another shot? Toto seems to think so, but it also wouldn't be a tragedy if he doesn't get one. It would hardly be the biggest what-if of a young driver.

I feel like my statement was pretty middle grounded. I'm not denying the existence of his crashes...they happened. And I am not saying he is the next 7 time champion either. But it is also important to recognize that he wasn't just going out and binning it every weekend, he had two major crashes that skewed the data. And he was pretty competitive with Magnussen who is a much more experienced driver.

Plus Haas ruined (off the top of my head) two of his best possible finishes with terrible pitstops, and gave him a useless strategy in Suzuka

Haas of course famously never ruined magnussen’s strategy or botched his pit stops last year. For instance, at Hungary where magnussen was the first to switch onto the ice skate hards…and then they kept him on them despite his complaints and the fact that they were horrible for everyone….this was just a blessing of course

Yeah that's great, so they ruined both their drivers' races. How is this a good point against Mick?

It’s a point against any argument that mick alone was screwed by haas, and any associated arguments framing it as - A unique disadvantage - a unique results-mitigating factor - something haas were not capable of taking into account when assessing their desire to retain a driver Mick’s shitty pit stops and strategy are not some offsetting factor to help level the score between him and magnussen. Haas, as always, had plenty of that to spare for both drivers last year

Haas is one of if not he poorest team he cost them money that could have gone to new parts.

He had a lot more moments then that, apart from the two incidents in Jeddah and Monaco he had torpedo moments with Vettel and Latifi, span in the first chicane in Imola which retired Alonso and destroyed his race and crashed the car in Japan in free practice. If he just kept it more clean 100% he would've gotten a seat this year

Even Lewis had an opening lap incident lap year, with Alonso too. Checo and Charles had rain incidents. We've all watched Logan and Nyck and Alex and Lance and god knows who else have crashes but the commentary is never the same.

> Even Lewis had an opening lap incident lap year, with Alonso too. Checo and Charles had rain incidents. I'm just giving possible reasons why Haas dropped him, realistically its a team not built for junior drivers - they always think about their bottom line. These sort of incidents cost them points in the championship as well when the car was fully capable of getting 6th - 9th place > We've all watched Logan and Nyck and Alex and Lance and god knows who else have crashes but the commentary is never the same. Logan is a genuine rookie, if he keeps performing at a rookie standard next year then he's going to get shit for it. Mick crashed more than Mazepin in his rookie year but no one really cared about it since he showed some speed against him. Nyck is being destroyed online, people are talking about his replacement already. Everyone knows that Alex is trying to outperform a shit car so there's a bit of leeway (like Leclerc). And Lance is Lance, doesn't matter what anyone says he will have a seat.

Mick crashed more than Nikita because he was faster than him, like 45 seconds faster each race and the car was dangerously unpredictable. If Alex is trying to outperform a s*** car I don't even know what you would describe the 2021 Haas as. It was a car based on the 2019 car that not only was slow as shit but both Kevin magnussen and Roman Grosjean had significant issues with in pace and design. Haas ignored all of their feedback and pretty much cap the same design and stuck it on 2020 and then 2021 rolls around and they got that same shit car and stuck a different floor on there, that meant that it would spin without much notice at all because nothing was correlated correctly. It was literally unstable because of floor and suspension correlation, nothing fitted. That's not a car you could have put max verstappen or Lewis Hamilton in and got results out of. If you're going to understand Alex albon who is experienced, Mick can get break for not learning the edge correctly after spending a year in a car where the feedback was so inconsistent that almost anything would tip the car into a spin. He managed to get that shitbox into Q2 which is a borderline miracle.

Yeah so like I said in my original post, no one really cared that he crashed that much because he was a rookie and outperforming Mazepin. I'm not against Mick here, in fact I think he should have got another year. I'm simply speaking in the perspective of Haas, their team concept and what he could've done to keep his seat

He topped world destructors championship 2022: https://reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/z7ugkw/world_destructor_championship_2022_final_results/ and 2021 https://reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/rfg1ll/world_destructors_championship_2021_final/. His actions cost the team a lot of money.

He crashed in Japan driving back to the pits after the session was finished. If you can't even safely drive a car back to the pits that's going to cause any team to consider other options.

Perez crashed in Spa on the Formation lap. He's still racing

[удалено]

Team struggling for money isn't his problem. He crashed twice early in the season. But people talk like he crashed every single race.

[удалено]

With the amount of hate Steiner shows, the only problem Mick had was being in Haas. I don't know what was the problem between them but it was Steiner's job to make right when Mick was still in the team.

He literally won the Destructors Championship twice in a row.

That is some random reddit stat. It's not official information.

and it was fixable for the race right after

If you consider that "right after" I don't know what to tell you. The repairs were extensive and he only managed to participate again because the race was delayed over and over and over again. Had it been a normal race, he would've DNS'd

> The repairs were extensive and he only managed to participate again because the race was delayed over and over and over again. Had it been a normal race, he would've DNS'd point taken and agreed and I got it mixed with Max at Hungary https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IGwm1QmwN9s

You mean the same weekend Haas completely fucked up the strategy hoping for a safety car causing a decent result (Mick was P10 part way through the race) to bring dead last. As much as I do agree that Mick needs to step up his game if he wants another shot at a seat but what Haas did to him last year was absolutely ridiculous. They had no desire to try and help him

I am not taking about the race though, I am talking about free practice where he crashed so their race strategy has nothing to do with this.

I realize that, I was highlighting that same weekend the team did nothing to help their driver get a better result. Driver’s crash in FP sessions it happens, it’s not like it was ideal conditions. It was wet and he spun out

Even Lewis crash in wet Monaco this year, when conditions are tricky it can happen to anyone.

And it was even a normal rain spin, he aquaplaned.

He hit a wet patch, given the conditions that can happen, we saw multiple drivers hit a wet patch in less drenching conditions and hit gravel this week because it can happen to anyone. This was the same racetrack and car that Gio binned it after 3 laps, and he's very experienced. Mick had the unfortunate luck of always having his big oooof moments on tracks with walls nearby.

I’d like to see you control an F1 car after hydroplaning. Far easier to loose control in the wet when you’re going slow, as someone else said same thing happened to Perez in Spa ‘21, and other drivers before too

Let’s face it he was kicked out because German media went after Steiner. He made it his personnel agenda to not give a chance to Mick on the grid this season. If cost was the only issue they would have told him in summer they wouldn’t be resigning him. Dangling him till the end when all other seats were full was just Steiner taking it out on Mick. Just wait and watch how he treat Kmag this season as anything else and scrutiny will fall on him

I don't understand your point at all. Schumacher knew his contract was up and his seat wasn't sade, he absolutely knew his position from the beginning of the year, let alone summer break. Steiner didn't "dangle" him at all. It was known from before summer break that Haas were not happy with Mick. If the media / fans knew then Mick certainly knew the score. If Mick and his entourage left it untill the end of the year to find him a seat elsewhere then that is entirely on them, not Steiner. Mick, like Piastri, had ample opportunity to look elsewhere and show what he could do but *nobody* wanted him. Fuck, only Merc picked him up after the season ended as a token gesture to his family Mick is a fucking Adult. Stop treating him like a kid being held back by his high-school coach. Mick's current situation is entirely on him, noone else.

Steiner already not being nice to Kevin.

He had 2 years

And in one of those seasons he was in a Haas that was miles behind the second worst car and beating his awful teammate, you can't really get much from that.

Still experience

I wouldn’t call driving for Haas in 2021 a F1-relevant experience

And in both years beat his teammate in race pace

You're in fairly land if you think he's faster than Kmag

A fairy land of real, factual lap times

Because he cost them so more money after all the crashes

> Doesn't strike me as any different to people like Jolyon Palmer or Stoffel Vandoorne. What an odd pair of names to put together in the same category. Vandoorne definitely deserved another shot in F1.

I believe he's worth more than people give him credit. Sure, he had a shot and didn't impress, but where was that opportunity given? At Haas, with Gunther Steiner as a "mentor". Wouldn't call it the ideal team for him to develop, or, to be fair, any rookie. Albon was given a shot at RB and failed, went on to pull out great performances at Williams, same with Gasly at RB, failed and went on to pull consistent performances at AT. People just seem to be more demanding due to his name.

With Albon and Gasly you are missing the part where they initially impressed at AT/Torro Rosso and failed when promoted to the big team. I don't think AT/Torro Rosso is a particularly nurturing environment under the loving and caring Dr Helmut. Many many drivers have wilted under the pressure and not had the support needed there. Albon and Gasly were regularly putting in decent performances before their big promotion, scoring points and not sticking it in the wall. All things Schumacher wasn't doing regularly.

Well, they did come from RB's driver academy. So there was some nurturing involved and development as drivers. Not the same as being "dropped" in the hands of Gunther. But I get what you mean, it's a tough sport, and those without enough mental strenght will come short. The kid did won F2 tho. I understand all the claims about him tho, I just feel there is more to him. You look at Ricciardo, a veteran driver, on RB and on Mclaren and it's hardly the same driver. He didn't "fitted" into the team. I'll hapilly give you 100% reason if he get's another seat and fails as I don't believe his spell at Haas shows his potential. Not saying this due to his name, I fucking hated Michael back in the day. Just wanted to clear that.

lol, yeah, think a lot of that is on the money. In regards to his F2 win though, there are different degrees of winning F2. Mick's win was very underwhelming. [https://formulascout.com/analysis-was-mick-schumacher-a-worthy-winner-of-the-f2-title/72698](https://formulascout.com/analysis-was-mick-schumacher-a-worthy-winner-of-the-f2-title/72698) Summary of that article, in Mick's F2 winning season: * 7th best qualifier averaging starting 7.9th on the grid * 6th fastest in races excluding outliers for various reasons * Only won 2 races * Had zero pole positions * Had 2 fastest laps De Vries is another underwhelming winner, but he took 4 wins and 5 poles.

That may be the way you read that article, but for me, it's damn impressive that he won the title by being the 6th/7th fastest driver. It means it was a very competitive season and his consistency was unmatched by any other driver.

He was consistent for sure, but not quick. To demonstrate you are worthy of F1, you need to be both in F2. Being slow but consistent by F2 standards is gonna be a shitshow when you hit F1. Even then you can teach consistency to some degree, you can't really train pace.

To demonstrate you are worthy of F1 is up to the teams to decide. He wasn't slow.. He just wasn't the best qualifier, but in races he was a great starter, he was fast, he was a strong defender, and was consistent, in a pretty competitive season. In F1, he faced two team mates. In 2021, he beat Mazepin 13-4 in races and neither driver scored points due to the car. In 2022, he beat Magnussen 11-6 in races, but was behind 12-26 in points. I don't think this is a shitshow record at all.

I mean it shows he wasn't really fast in F2. There were 5 drivers faster than him. Yeah he started well and was consistent. For me, that doesn't show F1 level. I class him as probably the weakest F2 champion I have witnessed.

Where did those 5 drivers end up in the championship?

He beat both Tsunoda and Zhou.

I think AT/Torro Rosso is a way better team than Haas for a rookie. Many of their driver's are still driving in other F1 teams. Sainz, Albon, Gasly, I think if you get a seat, you get a fair chance to develop. Yuki crashed a lot at his first two seasons, now he is praised week in week out because he is a lead driver and drives consistently.

Exactly

Bit harsh. 2021 was a total write off, where he practically no experience of racecraft for a whole season. In 2022 He was accident prone, but it was effectively his first proper season and it is very clear now that Guenther and others weren’t backing him and were pressuring him which led to him losing his head on occasions and having some very high speed crashes. Look at Gasly. He got promoted too early, was out of his league, got dropped. But he was given time to develop properly and at AT, he absolutely thrived and became quicker and more assured. Unless you’re on the level of Max, Lewis, Charles and George, you can’t just exceed expectations from race one.

Russell drove a dog shit car for 2 years, and still impressed. everyone was teasing him about points back then, but his performance was there

These are the excuses that always come out for Mick. Loads of other driver had their first season in dog shit machinery way off the pace and stood out. Alonso drove a crap Minardi and then went and joined Renault 2 years later and was competing right at the front. Ricciardo drove a crap HRT, coming in halfway through the season and managed to impress. Esteban Ocon joined in a shit Manor halfway through a seasona nd impressed enough to get a drive at Force India. I could go on. ​ Mick wasn't conclusively beating Mazepin and was then destroyed when an out of shape Magnussen came back unexpectedly raising questions of just how much of 2021 was the car and how much the drivers.

Mick was absolutely conclusively beating Mazepin, he was often closer to the front leader than Mazepin was to him. At points Nikita was 45 plus seconds behind Mick. Mick also beat Kmag in 14 out of 22 races and had strong race pace. You can have reasons to doubt Mick that are absolutely valid but you don't have to stoop to making them up.

But not every driver is on the level of Fernando or pre-McLaren Ricciardo. And as I mentioned, he was getting pressured heavily, as early as Monaco after his crash. It’s impossible for a driver so early in his career to deal with a team whose leaders are lukewarm about him. Gasly is again the example. If Gasly had been dropped from F1 entirely, what would have been the result?

Like the other drivers weren’t pressured?

Gasly is an odd example as he got promoted to Red Bull on the back of good performances and results at Torro Rosso, something we didn't see from Mick. Gasly was only given that second chance on the back of his previous showings. He had shown 'something' to deserve persevering with. ​ And yeah, he isn't the level of a top driver. But arguing a season in a bad car is a "write off" is untrue if other drivers can prove themselves in equally bad cars. The issue was the driver, not the car.

The 2021 Haas was an absolute shitbox. It genuinely couldn’t compete. They finished most races further back from the car in front than that car was to the front. It was a write off. Mick was racing practically himself. No experience in overtaking, racecraft, or high pressure scenarios. All of a sudden, he had to excel or get dropped by a team that didn’t like him. The results were predictable.

But this scenario is not somehow unique to Haas 2021 or Schumacher in the history of F1. That is my point. Other drivers have driven properly shitty cars, miles off the pace and been able to show something. The fact Mick didn't can only be on him. And the fact the team didn't like him, where does that come from? The team would love a driver constantly bringing in good results and not destroying cars. You make people like you by how you perform in this sport. Alonso looks like a bloody nightmare to work with for most of his career, yet teams love him because he does amazing things in the cars he is given.

I don’t think Mick is a top driver. But I think if he had had support, less pressure, and more than 1 season in a genuine car, something could have happened. George Russell didn’t get the Williams into Q2 once in 2019 and Kubica technically outscored him. But he had Mercedes backing and Toto was supporting him. Mick had no support, for obvious reasons. If anything, Micheal’s legacy made it more difficult.

I mean that's only looking at stats. Quite clearly George was considerably more impressive than Kubica over the season and just wasn't there the one-day points were on offer. He finished ahead of Kubica 16 times to 2 and was massively faster. And was on average 0.6 seconds a lap faster in qualifying. ​ This is an example of how a driver can show something in a shit car. He wasn't kept on purely because Toto was supporting him. ​ Purely looking at stats Schumacher was as impressive against Mazepin, but that didn't really sum up his 2021 did it?

Agree

Eh he was better than Kmag after 7 races. The reality is Haas is a poorly funded team that could not afford to develop rookies. Mick cost them enough money in 2022 that it became unsustainable. Thankfully, Toto knows what he is doing he has the best possible chance for a comeback as a Merc reserve.

Yep totes a good mentor for mick

Wtf you on about, literally every single post about Mick is endless "this guy sucks why are people still talking about him" comments. Some people are borderline foaming at their mouths to make him look like latifi lol

I mean just from replies to this comment: >not sure how he didn’t deserve one more year > >he was kicked out because German media went after Steiner > > Steiner taking it out on Mick > >All while regularly outpacing his very seasoned teammate. > >I believe he's worth more than people give him credit > >where was that opportunity given? At Haas, with Gunther Steiner as a "mentor" > >People just seem to be more demanding due to his name > >The kid did won F2 tho > >it's damn impressive that he won the title by being the 6th/7th fastest driver > >Bit harsh. 2021 was a total write off, where he practically no experience of racecraft for a whole season. > >Guenther and others weren’t backing him and were pressuring him which led to him losing his head on occasions and having some very high speed crashes > >It’s impossible for a driver so early in his career to deal with a team whose leaders are lukewarm about him > >The 2021 Haas was an absolute shitbox. It genuinely couldn’t compete > >All of a sudden, he had to excel or get dropped by a team that didn’t like him > >The reality is Haas is a poorly funded team that could not afford to develop rookies > >if anybody wants to criticise his performance weather he comes P1 or P20. I am still happy to support him and watch him come back to F1 There's 16 replies giving some pretty tenuous excuses for Mick's poor performance just on one small comment lightly criticising him.

I don't think Mick got a fair shake. His second season was effectively his first considering 2021 was literally him vs Mazepin in the slowest car on the grid. He didn't do any actual racing. That whole season was comprised of him getting blue flags and moving out of the way of the actually competitive cars. Mick had a poor start in 2022 but he was beating KMag in race pace in the second half. He deserved one more year to see an actual improvement.

The reason I root for Mick and will continue to do so is he seems to me like a really nice guy who has a lot of potential, but was not given a fair shot. I legitimately think that Haas is in no position to foster rookies. They do not seem like they have the mentality to mentor or the money to absorb the crashes that rookies will inevitably have. I also think that it was a terrible idea to get both Mick and Nikita together for a season. I think for a rookie season to be beneficial to the driver, they have to have an older driver to help them on the race craft. Near the end of last season, I started seeing moments of some brilliance against other drivers coming from Mick. No I do not think that he is as good a driver as his dad was. I think Michael could have risen above any of the challenges that Mick has faced so far and still developed a seriously good season out of it. However, I do think that Mick would be a great second driver on someone’s team. I just would like to see what he can actually do in a good car with some real training and mentorship.

At the pirelli tyre testing today, mick in the mercedes f1,mick was close to Russell's time!!!

And micks tyre testing has been the only one in the news, nothing of ferrari or Russell tyre testing. Micks got a big fan base.if anything his name puts more pressure on him and mick has said he wants to earn his seats in f1,not get them because of his surname..he's a humble person, nice person..

The love for Mick is based almost entirely on who his daddy is. Noone can objectively say Mick deserves another shot if it wasn't for the fact his last name is Schumacher.

Of course you can. Mick started consistently beating Kmag at the end of 2022. Haas was just the worst possible pick for him. That team needs drivers at the end of their careers that can keep the car safe even if they never find points.

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But people seem to genuinely argue and believe he has earned something more than he has got. I was rooting for him because of the surname, but he hasn't shown anything to suggest he deserves another shot.

For me it’s simple. I viewed Michael as a hero, so in turn I have a soft spot for Mick. I don’t care if anybody wants to criticise his performance weather he comes P1 or P20. I am still happy to support him and watch him come back to F1. To be honest he was doing really well last season and won the F2 championship. His talent is there. He is with the right team that will bring the best out of him.

He’s a nice guy and called Schumacher seems to be the crux of the mass of support. I don’t really get it either but best of luck to the guy. Don’t know where he’d get a seat, seems like he’s gonna have to hope Bottas calls it quits or AT throw De Vries out. There’s also more promising talent coming through the pipeline so maybe Mercedes persuasion is the route through. For the downvoters, feel free to debate your point. Where’s he gonna drive? Why is he better than the rookies coming through?

I think Stoff had a tough go in F1, otherwise you aren’t far off.

I liked Stoff and expected big things after his GP2 performances. But he never really kicked on in F1 and offered anything, he wasn't bad but didn't do anything to justify his place on the grid unfortunately.

I think running into the buzzsaw of Alonso as your first teammate would’ve been hard for anyone (other than Lewis lol) but yea you need results at the end of the day so it is what it is.

He is an F3 champion though.

He deserves a full time seat

Exactly

He just doesn’t have the skill to perform for a top team even given a competitive car imo. And when he under performs or crashes again, im sure the excuse will be “well he hasn’t had the Seat time all of the other drivers have had”. Do I hate the guy? Nope. But I think he gets a lot of the Hate not from his last name and not getting even remotely close to the results one might expect From the name, but drive to survive seemed to really focus on his wrecks and general shifty driving. One aspect that really sticks out to me is how they made him seem extremely unconfident in his skill and driving abilities.

That unconfidence, comes from the Hass team environment. Look at the difference in mick now he's at Mercedes,in a good supportive team environment

He didn't split it half did he?

Only if he was any good at it.

Has he crashed yet?

Good one

Lmao Im gonna get really downvoted but I just had to, no regrets. Really like the kid, tho

You can bet they aren't letting him go too fast for sure.

I was about to ask the same

crashing cars?

Dus was subpar, his last name is carrying him hard

I love seeing mick around the garage whether it’s on instagram, him in the background of a shot of Toto during a race or a shot of him during the race. He’s got such a nice smilw