Sainz Sr. is now in his 60s and still out there winning against rally dudes half his age. What a chad tbh


Everyone else is as well. Rally-raid drivers don't hit their primes until 45-50 and over the years Dakar had something like 3 winners under 40.


Why is that? I'm guessing experience over raw skill? But what skills are cultivated over that much time! In most pro sports that prime age curve is almost unheard of.


Knowledge of terrain and how to hit certain bumps and jumps without destroying a tire or the car. That’s where most time is lost in Dakar


Sainz actually suffered a puncture in the very first stage and then drove safely sacrificing about 7 minutes. Others lost more so he wins Day 1.


I need to keep up better. I tend to catch all the highlights after the whole event is over lol


I'd say it depends a bit on the year, but often navigation is where most time is lost. Stuff like punctures can haunt even very experienced drivers, sometimes very frequently (like Al-attiyah a few years ago). But the experienced drivers and riders are significantly less often losing time due to issues with navigation, and sometimes even successfully cut the track. People lose massive amounts of time due to navigation.


Navigation and vehicle survivability is a huge part of the sport that experienced older drivers will be better at


Rally Raid like Dakar is like 80% navigation. So the more experienced you are the less navigation mistakes you make. You can't be going 100% flat out all the time as something small like a wrong turn or a broken drive shaft or suspension could put you hours down the standings taking you out of any contention to win.


AKA The Robby Gordon method.


Honestly no clue. I noticed I can't really name any young Dakar winners when Rovanpera won the WRC title at an extremely young age by rallying standards (there 27-28 is when you get good, 30-32 is when you hit your prime) and went through all of them. Besides Ickx (38), Vatanen (35-39) and the one true outlier Kankkunen (29), people just don't win Dakar until they are at least 40.




My theory is that rallying doesn't require the precision F1 does. That's why we barely see drivers above 40 in F1. However, rally needs loads of experience because the car, or rather terrain is super unpredictable. In F1, you know the limit of the car, and you know how it's going to behave on corners or whatever, because the tracks are simple asphalt. With rallying, the terrain can have minute differences and that can affect how the car drives. No I'm not saying any one is better or needs more talent than the other. F1 is about accuracy and precision, Rally is about adaptability.


I'm here to see Alonso drive F1 into his 60s tbh.


Most motorsports favor extreme skill, and particularly lightning quick reflexes which degrade as you age. In rally raid lightning quick reflexes aren't needed nearly as often, but accumulated knowledge about terrain, route finding, etc are all things that improve with age.


Beware Dakar, that hot shot rookie Loeb is coming for you... There's a Raid World Championship now. He could increase his tally.


So, another 9 championship wins for Loeb then


Ogier will then swoop in to win 8 titles with 3 different teams. Maybe that should get Ingrassia out of retirement.


Loeb sort of narrowly lost the 2022 W2RC to Al-Attiyah due to a puncture. So he has been stopped before


I've only just realised that W2RC is the abbreviation for the World Rally Raid Championship. That's so dumb. Why isn't it the WRRC?


Then again, he did win his 1st WRC title in his third season after finishing 2nd in his second season.


Loeb just lost 1 hour 26 minutes due to stones destroying his BRX Hunter's Left rear tyre. Loeb had been driving slowly (by his own reckoning) in an effort to preserve the machinery. But it seems 2023 will once again be another Dakar he does not win.


We‘ll see, but I guess he won‘t be driving slowly anymore.


"It is said you do not win the Dakar. It is merely a matter of others losing it." ​ While it is possible for others to lose time in the next 13 or so days - this year's route seems to have been intentionally set through hazard after hazard - it is a big ask for Loeb to get back on terms for the win. He is in 31st place: 1 hour 21 mins off the lead, and even 10th place is almost 40 minutes ahead of him. It would take astonishing levels of attrition for him to get back in there for the win. But a Top 10 recovery in "normal conditions" might be feasible. That said, this is the Dakar. "Astonishing" events are normal for this rally.


Never said he would win it this year, but he will not care about equipment breaking any more.


The scary thing is he could do that before he gets to the age Sainz Sr is now...


Not half as scary has the racing record he already has.


Indeed. In my view he is the GOAT of 4 wheels. He's literally won in every discipline he's raced in, except Prototypes where he *only* managed 2nd.


Yep, he’s my pick for the GOAT as well. His level of talent is in outer space.


Regarding Loeb, you might want to check the latest Dakar 2023 news.....


Spanish squash champion and Real Madrid Trialist Carlos Sainz Sr.


After dropping to 31st on the stage to change a puncture! Guy is an absolute machine.


Not sure Sebastian Loeb is half the age of King Carlos. So far it seems like it is a battle between the two of them at the Dakar for 2023.


Sainz Jr watching his dad race for RedBull :-|


And race for Audi


Ah, I missed the rings on his shoulder heh. Just thought Sainz had a funny look on his face. I'm sure he's super happy either way for his dad to be doing something he loves.


there's the "e-tron" on the chest too


Yeah, it's a close family, an example for us all.


TIL I’m Dutch


Matador was sponsored by Red Bull in 1996 already. His connections with them helped Junior kickstart his open wheel career.


True, IIRC Jr has said he first met Marko and Horner at the Red Bull Ring where his father was doing some exhibition racing or other promotional work. He talks about it on one of his Beyond the Grids - he had the opportunity to race against seb, or at least set a lap time to be compared against seb, and wasn’t so shabby. Kudos to him for having the pace, but all credit to senior for being the reason junior even had such a chance encounter - one many of his peers would’ve been desperate to have.


Well, Sainz just wishes other red bull drivers were more like his dad. Carlos Sainz sr. was infamous for losing big races in heartbreaking fashion (specially if a world championship was involved). There is a video of his car breaking down and stopping within walking distance of the finish line and his navigator/co-pilot pleading with him to start the car. If they finished they would have won the title. Sainz basically sat there helpless as others crossed the line and he lost the title.


Senior won 2 WRCs and 3 Dakars and may win his fourth Dakar at age 60. Man is absolute legend.


"Carlos, trata de arrancarlo, por dios". Ah, a classic.


I think you have to hear it to get the full experience. So much desperation. As brutal as it is to read, hearing it is so much more gut wrenching. He had to finish fourth to win and broke down less than 500 meters from the finish line. Brutal.


I was very little back then so I don't remember it really well, but my mum has always been a motorsports fan, so I've always watched it with her and I remember her reaction most of anything. And of course, the phrase has been a meme in Spain for years.


Why did he do that?


I was a mechanical issue. It just broke down.


https://youtu.be/b-V6jkrPI3U The car had a mechanical failure and caught fire


Sainz Jr. came from the Red Bull driver academy and drove alongside Verstappen. My money is on him returning to RB at some point in the future.


Bold to put money on it - when Marko reiterated, as recently as last year, that max and Carlos (or more specifically their fathers) in the same garage ever again was a nonstarter


Marko is a walking corpse and will be dead before either Max or Carlos’ careers are over.


And Christian Horner - apparently having absolutely no brain cells and having lost Marko’s stabilizing influence - will surely rush to upend this sainz moratorium, precedent be damned, and handle the fireworks himself


Not after he was let go by Marko because of Sainz Sr.’s politics to get his son into RBR.


I remember Marko was annoyed about Carlos Sainz Sr and Jos Verstappen playing politics in the media when both their sons raced for TR. Edit: typo


Only Marko is allowed to play politics


Jos is no angel and I can’t stand the guy but Sainz literally spread the rumor that Verstappen was going to Ferrari when they were in TR.


I remember those spicy times with the two rookies like yesterday. Media from the Netherlands and Spain talking about the drivers in negative and positive ways. The only thing that I missed from those 1 season and a few races was them doing PR videos for Toro Rosso. Edit: typo


Media tried but verstappen is liked here


That aged *well*.


Sr won stage 1, 60 years of age and still going strong!


Dakar Rally starts today does it?


Technically it started yesterday with a very short stage but today was the first proper one.


I got a midnight notification for it on New Years lol thanks motorsport calendar app


What app do you use and where do you watch the rally?


Check the website for broadcasters. Depends on the country you're in. I'm not paying $110 for a yearly subscription for one event, so I'm sailing the seas for it.


Yeah, first stage was today and they had a small thing yesterday to decide starting order.


plot twist: he's signing his red bull contract to get out of the scuderia


Checo + Sainz 2023






What about Max and Daniel????


Max development driver, Daniel to indycar


It's pretty dope having your Dad being Carlos Sainz seeing him still racing at the sharp end. It must be stressful for the Mum though.


Well, she has been with him all through his career, I am sure she has full confidence in father and son. She would probably feel uneasy if they stopped doing it, racing has been a part of their lives for decades now. I am sure senior will retire in a few years but on his terms, no one else's.


F1 drivers complain about porpoising and this dude is jumping everything what a chad. /s


Carlos’ instagram stories of this are insane, just full pelt racing from Carlos Snr, the dude is a beast.


With Fernando Alonso and Carlos Sainz Sr., Spain is a Chad Superpower :-) I expect Rafael Nadal to keep Top 10 until he's 50 ;-)


Don’t forget Marc Marquez please.


Ppl say Alonso will never retire. Meanwhile Carlos Sainz Sr. - (Spanish drivers built different)


Poor Sainz. I always feel like in a way he's forever under dads shadow. Sainz sr. is a complete chad. What a life


I used to think that about Sainz Jr being in Sr's shadow. But I'm seeing there's a generational difference with regards to this. Newer fans don't seem to know much about Sr's achievements. I understand it, I didn't know much about Graham Hill when I was younger. But I knew about Damon Hill.


I was the opposite, I saw the Sainz name on F1 after a long hiatus of watching the sport, and the first thing that came to mind was "is he related to *that* Carlos Sainz who won multiple WRC titles?"


I saw sainz jr at a rally-cross event a few years before his f1 debut. Thought it was pretty cool to see the son of a legend...nobody else seemed to care


I don’t think so because he chose another type of racing and it’s hard to compare.


Well, he now has a win and pole under his belt. If he keeps it up, I doubt he will be seen like that. Though being the "junior" also doesn't help. But I feel that when he's in the paddock, hardly anybody will be asking about his dad anymore. Especially once the Dakar is out of peoples thoughts during the year.


Yeah for sure, I think most newer casual f1 fans don't even know what rally is let alone who the famous drivers are/were. As a USA guy I only know about it from playing dirt rally (simracing) and watching classic rally YouTube vids (group b was insane). CS jr. will make a name for himself no doubt, he's not a bad driver by any means. I think if he can find a way to dominate Leclerc he'll really step into his own legend.


I don't think that is the case at all, both are clearly proud of one another, Jr. feels quite secure indeed and his career shows it.


He is, I was watching him in extreme E repeats this week, Carlos is so solid, like a proper geezer at rally, Junior won’t ever reach where his daddy has


sweater over the shoulders is a chad move. like father like chad.


I saw an interview in Spanish a fair while ago where Carlos himself said he would stay in his Dad's shadow, but he didn't say it in a nasty way, more in an admiring way. At least, I am pretty sure that's what he said although my Spanish is not brilliant. Have searched but can't find it now.


Jr is hot


Sr is too honestly


A life time of stress in mom's smile, worrying about her husband all the time and more recently her son.


They've talked quite often about it, and there's also a vid of little Carlos in a kid's electric car, mom always hyped him up.


She talks a little about this and an accident Carlos Jr was in in the amazon prime doc Carlos Sr put out


They got married after his second WRC title, so I doubt she is worried, if anything she craves it.


It's not like they race moto.


Some days ago Sainz was interviewed by an Argentinian newspaper, talking a lot about the Dakar and had one question about Sainz JR. Totally recommend the read if you understand Spanish or are willing to use a translator. Very casual and fun talk. They talk about the rally, this year's car, the difference between racing in Dakar, Arabia, South America, how he manage to stay top level at his age, etc. About Sainz JR: >**Usted tiene una gran trayectoria en el automovilismo deportivo, pero para muchos, especialmente los más jóvenes, pasó a ser el padre de Carlos Sainz Jr., el piloto de Ferrari de Fórmula 1. ¿Cómo se maneja ello?** > >\-*Es un orgullo tener a mi hijo en Ferrari. Trato de seguir por teléfono los tiempos de mi hijo en una práctica, en la clasificación, en la carrera. Es posible que este año venga al Dakar a verlo. Me da mucha ilusión que venga a ver a su padre. Cuando tenía 6 años fue a verme al Rally de Cataluña, y sería muy lindo que se repita la experiencia, ahora.* " You have a great career in motor racing, but for some people, specially the new generation you're known as the father of Sainz JR, the Ferrari F1 driver. How you manage it?" " - It's an honor yo have my son driving for Ferrari. With my phone I try to follow his time in the practice session, qualy and race. It is possible that this year he comes to watch the Dakar. I'm very thrilled about the possibility of him to come and see his dad racing. When he was 6 he went to see me at the Catalunya Rally and would be so great if that experience can be repeated!" Glad your wish became true, Sainz! :) [The Interview](https://www.clarin.com/deportes/carlos-sainz-solas-clarin-inicio-rally-dakar-2023-audi-joya-ingenieria-reto-_0_ZBerHOwJqf.html)


Yo necesito practicar leyendo en español, muchas gracias. Que lindo es que Carlos Sr recuerde un momento de cuando tenía Carlos Jr SEIS AÑOS solamente!


El Matador




Very wholesome, Spanish people are awesome in general.


He looks like if Pauline Walnuts had better role models.


Fuck, RIP. The semi recent NPR interview with Michael Imperioli talks a bit about Tony Sirico and it's worth a listen if you're a fan. From his dyed hair to fighting the writers about lines that "weren't Paulie". Actually [here](https://www.npr.org/2022/12/19/1144124966/michael-imperioli) “I was born, grew up, spent a few years in the army, couple more in the can, and here I am, half a wise guy, so what?"


You know, Quasimodo predicted all this.


He killed 14 Czechoslovakians. He was an interior decorator!


🤔 His house looked like shit!


Does he have The Godfather theme as a horn?


The girl on the right looks a little bit like Emma Watson, at first glance I thought it was Emma Watson.


That's Isa Hernaez, Carlos Sainz Jr's girlfriend. She's a journalist


i think she's never a journalist. she was a pr for a fashion brand. but idek if she still works there or just being influencer who has a podcast.


thank you!! I haven't kept 100% on the ball so I appreciate the info


It's so amazing to see the whole family together. Best of luck for the Father on his Dakar Rally, and the Son on his F1 season! I want to see him really shine this time




Jr's girlfriend, Isa


I love how Carlos Sainz Sr is racing and promoting RB!! Love it


Thought that was odd considering Sr was a reason why ties with Jr were severed lol


Rich people gonna do rich people things


This is an F1 sub.. you see rich people doing rich people things like 99.5% of the time though xD


He also owns Carl's Jr


New Red bull junior for the 2024 seat.