Bengals. In two weeks they have just 2 sacks and 0 turnovers. They played against Mitch Trubinsky and Cooper Rush.


I think the "experts" are overestimating Cincy and underestimating NY. Say what you will, but Flacco looks better than Rush and Trubisky. I have a feeling Wilson and Moore are gonna have big games.


Yeah Ive noticed the bengals are ranked pretty highly as a streamer DST this week. I don’t see it at all. They haven’t done anything impressive yet, they’re playing in New York, and the jets are moving the ball pretty well with some decent weapons on offense.


I played them last year against some weak teams for the easy matchup. They were thoroughly unimpressive.


They finally have a good range of skills guys where a decent, experienced QB like Flacco can just game manage and only need to make a couple of big plays a game. They always had the game manager type QBs but no skills around him to manage. They'll have a tough road in that division but I definitely see them as a slept on team that will be challenging for a wild card spot.


I feel like this is a perfect trap game for me to finally start Garret Wilson


He’s my replacement this week for Mike Evans! Excited to see what he does this weekend


God so many of us are are going to get burned this weekend, aren't we? Something ridiculous like a monsoon or Lafluer getting dinged on the head pre game so he runs 90 times is going to happen.


I ended up jumping ship. Just traded Wilson in a package for Devante Adams


The perfect time to start Elijah Moore


Lol I’m starting him over JuJu and Lazard. I hope it’s a shootout this weekend


I rolled with them week 1 & 2, but if I drop them this week, they’ll probably explode for 4 sacks and a pick-6 against the Jets, idk


good irl D, bad fantasy D (to this point)


Because those offenses were focused on handing off the ball and designed pass plays. Not like they were going against someone who takes true pass plays and goes through a bunch of reads for 20 plays.


Except they both had 30+ pass attempts against the bengals lol


A pass attempt does not mean they had a true pass set. Herbert in college had very few plays that weren't designed throws to one player, which made it hard to evaluate him coming to the NFL. You don't have to sit in the pocket and read the defense, or make big plays. Bengals played from behind both games so no risky plays had to be made. Edit: The fact that people think pass attempts (aka including screens, play action, rollouts, etc.) are the same as true pass sets says enough about the pedigree of the people who frequent this sub and mass down vote lol. Good luck taking advice from one another on defenses when you don't even understand football.


So why doesn’t everyone do this and prevent sacks/pressures?


Because it is very conservative and not going to rack up points, especially if the defense can stop the run and prevent YAC. The Bengals only lost by 3 points despite not producing turnovers.


18 sack Hendricks clamped by a rookie guard playing tackle btw


Lmao aight let me know when you learn football beyond a basic ESPN stat.




Same tbh, not sure what’s up with them


Also their old DC is now our HC in chicago. I think ppl forget that.


I dropped them for KC after I found that out. Gonna play the streaming game for DST this season probably


Playing the Chiefs would really be enough but after 2 mediocre games I'm on to greener pastures.


Darius Leonard being out is massive.


When is he supposed to return?


Week to week… he’s practicing but not back yet


I see


Regardless of how good Shaq Leonard is, one OLB isn't the difference between a dogshit defense and an elite defense. Their longtime DC left for Chicago, and their secondary is still bad. Gilmore looks like he's running in molasses.


They scored 0 points against the Jags. Time of POS 38 Jags to 22 Colts. Leonard will absolutely help this defense when he's back. But I don't think it's the D where the problem lies. Until they fix the* offense avoid the Colts to defense.


Their offense wasn't able to move the ball without Pittman, injuries on def, new DC, you name it.


Darius Leonard is out and their Division is no longer completely incompetent. They no longer have 4 games against 30th+ ranked offenses. Also, the rest of the AFC got significantly better as well where they are trying to just roll out the same roster with Ryan instead of Wentz


I'd say the division has gotten worse. Jags are better but still the Jags, Titans have turned to mush, Texans still suck, and of course the Colts themselves suck.


This is literally the most incompetent our division has ever been


Dropped them for the Eagles


I did the same. Granted it was MNF where Cousins is historically bad asf, if they can hold down one of the best offenses in the league the way they did they will provide serviceable fantasy points.


This 100%


Part of it is the their offense is terrible so far, which means the Colts D has to stay on the field longer. Regardless, they're a no-brainer drop right now.


Yeah I just don’t know which player to pick up as a bench guy


Yeah it’s mostly just down to Matt Ryan taking sacks on third and ten or throwing an interception and then the other team having great field position. But if you can’t get it done against Houston and Jax you ain’t getting it done.


Dropped the Colts D and picked up KC, specifically because they’re playing Indy. Out of spite, but still within the bounds of FF decency.


Dropped them to pick up chargers


They looked great on paper!


Yup. Dropped em and got to grab the Bucs since everyone competed WRs on the wire this week.


Keep in mind that two road games against divisional opponents with a new DC and their best player sidelined. Not saying they’re going to be an elite Fantasy DST this year, but they can easily still salvage top-12.


Yes but their divisional opponents are two of the worst teams in the league


They’re not, though. Not anymore. And regardless, Jacksonville at home is always an inexplicable loss.


I mean I’m not ready to say that there are many teams that the Texans and Jags are better than…


Tune in tonight at 8:15 eastern! Nah you right tho


Ravens...almost to the point where I'd rather start flex players who're playing against them.


Aren’t like all their cbs dead?


In Seattle they'd be considered day to day.


pete: carson is close to returning carson: retires


Pete probably thinks Carson is still coming back soon.


Yep. Hill and Waddle murdered them.


They were already down to rookies and 3rd stringers before that game


A little beat up or coming back from last season injuries. They have a new DC this year who has a system that is and are kinda questioning.


Man, like 3/4 of the way through their last game I would have disagreed with this. The were the one 'player' on my team that was doing alright, then they just got shredded.


Humphrey was out all 4th quarter, and Peters was out most of it. Their 3rd CB is out for year, and 4th was out for game. They were playing 2 rookie cbs.


They still scored fine while giving up huge points. I'm sticking with them.


The Duvernay return TD was the only thing that saved them in the end. I’m streaming Dallas this week


They also had sacks and picks and they play new england.


Yeah, they scored REAL well for being a "bad" D/ST. Definitely can't go wrong with sticking with them for at least one more week.


As a Ravens fan, if they’re healthy they’re a good play. Their corners all got hurt in the 4th quarter and they all should be back this weekend. They’ll also get 2 pass rusher back off IR (Bowser and Ojabo) soon. Starting after the Buffalo game they’ll be a great add


Cleveland has been disappointing with their first two weeks of good matchups. Still rolling them out tonight if they don’t smash I am done with them.


38.5 point o/u in tonight’s game. I still feel good about them.


More specifically, Pittsburgh’s team total o/u is 17.5 with the under being quite favored


It's windy af in Cleveland today


Damn so ditch my kicker?


You know the rules, you gotta ask someone to go throw the ball in the parking lot.


I don't reallly understand betting, so could you explain what this means and how it relates to the DST doing good or bad?


It’s projected to be a low-scoring game


Essentially it means half of betters think the combined score of the game will be over 38.5 and half under 38.5. Most games end up with an over/under between 40 and 50 so 38.5 is on the low end. Low scoring game = more defense points for fantasy.


The over/under is the total points scored by both teams. The spread shows the difference between the 2 teams. Cleveland is currently -3.5 favorites. That means cleveland has to win by 4 points to cover the spread. Pittsburgh has to win or lose by less than 3 points to cover. One thing to realize with betting, is that vegas adjusts the lines based on how money is placed on each side cover their potential loses. So its not what they think will actually happen, but more so reflects how the betting public thinks will happen. If that makes sense. So its just another tool for fantasy football.


Also the reason it's used a lot in fantasy analysis is that it's also fair to say that you won't ever go broke betting on Vegas to succeed in the long run - they're closer to right more often than not and using that as a tool may blow up on any given week, but over a long enough timeline, it's likely to be a net-positive for you


Yeah thats definitely true. They are fairly accurate but every once in a while they have to change lines a bunch because some whale made a giant bet as a way for vegas to essentially hedge its bets. So there is some extrernal factors on their line but yeah overall the betting favorites are the safer bet over a long timeline.


To add to what others have posted explaining what O/U means and why it's correlated to DST success, there's a reason those casinos and sportsbooks are so huge & lavish. The people who come up with these numbers aren't dumb, and they have a long track record of success. They have models that are designed to keep them in the green over entire weeks and seasons, which we as fantasy football players can get a little lost in since we only get to pick one DST per week, but it's a good system to count on as being accurate more often than not.


“Vegas” predicts the game to be 21-17. Both teams combining for 38 points, and browns win by 4.


They might be okay because the game will end like 10-7 but Clowney is out and Garret is questionable to reallly temper those expectations


I got cute with starting them over TB twice and won’t go back.


Primetime game, at Home, vs. a division rival with an awful offense, when it's very windy out & somewhat chilly (I know it is because I live here). If they don't perform tonight you can throw Cleveland D in the trash.


Already did. They had the Jets at home and totally shat the bed. Didn’t muster much against the Panthers either. That’s two very turnover-prone QBs they didn’t really get to. Plus there’s no way in hell I want to watch this horse abortion of a game tonight


Yeah I just picked them up as a streamer


They’re banged up. I think they figure it out- especially when they get Greedy back, because the secondary has been pretty sorry.


The issue hasn’t been Greedy’s replacement, rookie Emerson (Ward and Newsome as the two starters). Emerson has been very solid. The issue has been the 2 safeties letting up deep balls in a time where the only thing they can't do is let up a 70+ yard pass, with blown coverages. It was possibly Ward on the one bomb last week dropping into a Cover 2 flat instead of staying deep like a Cover 4, or could have been Cover 3 called which means the safety (Delpit) blew his assignment deep. Everyone assumes it was Ward, but Ward doesn't take accountability for everything and Tweeted he "only got beat once". So, getting Greedy back doesn’t fix anything, and Greedy is mediocre anyway. Hopefully Joe Woods wakes up and calls a better game tonight, and the players actually know their assignments instead of pointing fingers every big play. The D talent is there, but Greedy being injured is an absolute non issue…and Emerson might already be playing better than he ever did anyway.


kind of a bummer to hear greedy’s been not great, i was pretty hyped for him coming out of college


I'd drop the Colts, noone is picking them up this week.


The next one I stream


I streamed Washington and Cleveland. Never again


You shouldn't hold on to defenses that disappoint you. I feel like there's always a defense available that can get the job done each week.


Do you think that streaming defenses every week is a solid tactic?


Yep. If you feel strongly about a particular defense and like their schedule in the playoffs, maybe hold on to that one, but otherwise I would stream and just check chunks of their schedule.


i brought in Chargers D for this exact reason, cakewalk schedule in next 6 weeks


I considered dropping the 9’ers for them. That Chargers d looks really good and that schedule is cheeks.


yea even more than the schedule their actual performances convinced me. I also like picking up good D's that are attached to elite offenses - reduce time that the opposing offense plays, if it becomes a big lead the opposing offense has to take more risks, etc.


Hm it doesn’t sound like a bad idea


I’m with this guy. I stream and then towards the end of the year I stash a defense or two with good schedules for playoffs.


Sounds pretty smart


I agree with these guys, and I'm a firm believer in def streaming. It has its disadvantages for sure, but it's like you're playing the best odds every week rather than settling for the odds the house gave you (unless you get a set and forget defense in the draft or early on). And definitely start targeting a defense to stash for the playoffs. You'll see threads about that later in the season reminding you of the defenses that are on the waiver and have a great last 2-3 games. I don't do a lot right in FF, but this is one technique I've moved over to the last 5 years and it works and wins close games sometimes.


Unless you're able to secure one of the top D's (and there aren't many) in the league then streaming is the way I always go. I've come to realize most defenses are unpredictable week to week, especially early in the season.


I draft a defense with my last pick then stream the rest of the season. I don't like passing up on good bench players for a #1 defense when I can just stream for slightly less results.


I stream defenses every year. I never hold one all year. I like to prioritize defenses that have two or three good match ups in a row if at all possible. Or pick up a defense that has a meh matchup but the week after has a smash matchup. Also I usually have two defenses with the best playoff schedule for playoffs to rotate. In my Yahoo league the defense scoring is completely assanine where a very good top defense on the week will score 30 - 40+ pts and a bad defense will put up 8-10 pts. Unfortunately defenses can make or break a matchup regardless of skill positions sometimes


somebody did the analysis a few years back using several years worth of data assuming <25% ownership for streaming purposes, and if you did that and used the top option available, you'd end up with something like the #4-7 overall defense over the course of the year. You aren't going to light it up that way, but it's basically the best option if you don't have one of the elite fantasy defenses


So streaming is the truth is what you’re telling me?


yeah, because once you get past the top tier, defensive performance is *so* matchup dependent: a dogshit offense can make a mediocre team look like the 85 bears, while an elite one can make them look like the 2012 saints


Good point


I prefer to take two and rotate when the matchup is better. Currently using Jags and Eagles


I review the schedule pre draft and normally select 2 solid Def to switch out based on matchups. Hit the waivers when needed but always carry 2. Def has won me many close games


This is really bad advice


I’ve done this in the past but taking up 2 team spots in defenses feels kinda eh, especially if one is really good and you pretty much always start them


On the opposite side of the spectrum, I think everyone that doesn't have the Bills defense should be trying to buy the Chargers D/ST. Outside of their bye week, you could realistically start them every week between now up through Week 10.


100% this. I initially started the season with them drafted. Dropped them for the first two weeks to try to play matchups. Lucky for me, they were still there after waivers cleared this week. Even dropped Cleveland D before their game tonight vs. PIT because I'm not trying to get cute with them floating on waivers any longer.


I dropped the Chargers because I already have the Bucs. Still kinda regretting it though…


Dropped the colts for the cowboys. Parsons is not human.


That is true




I’m going to be that guy. Why are you holding a defense that plays KC this week? Are you playing them? No reason to be rostering 2 defenses at this point in the season. Let them go.


what if I drafted the bills and someone dropped the 49ers after week one? then is 2 okay to hold and try to use one as trade bait?


I dunno what league you're in but throwing in even the most elite defense would do literally nothing for me in a trade


What are you really going to get in a trade for a defense? I guess it just depends on the competitiveness of your league. I traded the #1 defense in Fantasy last year for Samaje Perine. I never ever ever roster two defenses at any point in the season. If I have the best defense in football and they are on a bye, I drop them. Bench spots are too valuable.


I’d rather roster 2 defenses than 2 qb’s and people do that shit all the time. Also, I will always drop my kicker if I need to scoop someone off the waiver before my defense. A set and forget defense just feels good.


Yeah I don’t roster 2 QBs either and I’ll always drop my kicker to pick up waiver guys.


Lol hard disagree here. Like massive. How is a bench spot more value than the NUMBER 1 DEFENSE lmfao. That means they’re getting 11 points a game or so. That’s very valueable than a back up handcuff or 3rd string Wr Even in my leagues where I don’t have slightly boosted defense this is just silly.


Because it’s possible to outscore the #1 defense by streaming. It’s not like you’re equivalent to the #17 defense. There are so many combinations to achieving successful defensive numbers. That is not the case at other positions except for kicker.


Agree to disagree. I stream defenses too but it’s THE BEST defense. That’s worth 10-14 points a game.


Agreed, in 2012 the Bears D/ST averaged 11ppg vs a league average 6 or so. Might seem like a random example but I had them that year and they helped me win my league lol


My streaming defenses scored me 189.57 points last season which is good enough for 11.15 PPG and 3rd overall. The #1 defense in fantasy scored 219.13 points at 12.89 PPG. Is that extra point worth it? Especially when it could end up NOT being the best defense? Not even remotely. Samaje Perine made up the difference when I played him because I lost David Montgomery and Perine scored 22 points.


Tell that to the folks trotting out Buffalo and averaging 20 poins a game so far.


It was Buffalo that I traded last year. I traded them the week after they scored 24 points, everything I’ve outlined applies. There were 4 defenses that scored more than 18 points last week, half of those were rostered. In fact 4 of the top 10 defenses last week are on rosters this week.


I have a feeling these nubs that are responding to you aren’t that good at fantasy football. Your strategy and approach toward defense makes the most sense with how fickle the position is. Everyone else is really over valuing defense. I have a feeling they are armchair statisticians that look at the average points per game instead of the median and can’t comprehend how a defense scoring 20 points three times a year, 11-15 points twice a year and under 10 every other game isn’t really your best option for the entire season. Screw these people and take their money while they complain about how you run your fantasy team.


Not all benches are equal though. In my one league the waivers are so thin that late in the season holding 2 (even 3) defenses even just to block can be more beneficial than picking up some handcuff's handcuff.




There are probably 8 defenses on waivers right now that “could” score 15+ points next week. Yes, I’d much rather roster somebody who with an injury could be catapulted into a high volume role. Easy.


> There are probably 8 defenses on waivers right now that “could” score 15+ points next week. Name those 8 teams then lol


There are 8 defenses on waivers right now in my league that scored 10 or more last week and 2 that scored more than 15. Any defense can score 15 points on any given week because of how flawed the scoring is on Team Defense. If a defense scores a TD they score a lot of points. Team defense is all about TDs.


Browns are cooked.


Rip I just picked them up to stream this week


You’re safe this week. The anemic Steelers offense couldn’t put up significant points against most pop warner teams


Haha ok sounds good, I’m a little more confident now


Be prepared for 2nd half meltdown


Im ripping the Chargers over the Browns because last week. No Clowney and Garrett is playing but idk if hes 100%.


I have the Browns this week too against the Steelers. Feeling good about that. No way any of their receivers go off like the Jets miraculously did.


I mean dionatae is no slouch


I stream match ups, never been a fan of using a pick on defense to get a great one. Usually just pick one up before week 1 and carry an extra skill player while I'm still deciding who to keep Week 1 Broncos D Week 2 Packers D This week I picked up cowboys D


I used to do that too but everyone in my league started holding 2 defenses which means streamers aren’t ever available


At that point just sacrifice the points at defense for the overall stronger roster, seems to be the play!


Unfortunately my league has way too many bench spots


Why the hell would you hold the Colts? No one will touch them if you put em on waivers. Don’t bone yourself, you can add them if Leonard comes back and you are that into it. I drafted them based on Houston & Jacksonville the first 2 weeks and I’m out after they shit the bed there. Fortunately the Chargers were out there for me.




FYI for anyone disappointed by the colts so far - they've been without their 4 out of 4 All Pro Linebacker Shaquille (formerly Darius) Leonard the first two weeks and he's been a full participant in practice this week. No idea if he's gonna play this week and no idea if that's gonna magically solve their problems, but a big part of why people expected them to be good hasn't been on the field while they've been bad and he'll be back soon.


After 2 weeks, the Colts didn't register any signs (at least for me) as an elite defense worth holding on to. Right now that list consists of: 1. Tampa 2. Buffalo 3. Jacksonville 4. San Francisco Given the small sample size, those 4 defenses displayed a level of consistency that makes me want to speculate their usefulness over the season. Seriously though, don't hold onto defenses you have no faith in. Dump them in earnest.


Can you explain Jacksonville in the elite tier? Seems like they had a pretty nice opening schedule, but get the Chargers and Eagles next two weeks. Are you recommending them as members of your elite tier? To be clear I'm not calling you out, I'm interested in your take. I've been eying Jacksonville as an interesting DEF that is still widely available.


Not a problem. First let me say that I have the Rams and sticking it out with them right now despite Jax being on my waivers. A 2 game sample isn't something I necessarily like to react to but 3-5 games may shift my perspective. Second, I'll admit that my model is somewhat flawed and does not take into consideration strength of match ups. It mainly looks at performance week to week. With that said, Jax started the season with 1 sack, 3 INTs and 1 fumble recovery. They did allow 28 points to WSH though which brought down their overall fantasy score but you could see in the stats that they were active in trying to disrupt WSH offense. Their second game does make me wonder if it was a fluke given we know what happened vs the Colts. 5 sacks, 3 Ints and 0 points allowed. Technically, Jax did limit WSH to 1 score in each of the first 2 quarters and 0 scores in the 3rd quarter of their game so it can be debatable whether Jax at least has the ability to shut out teams for several quarters. Personally, I want to see the game against the Chargers in particular to see just how active their defense is and to get another week worth of data for my model to be more certain of whether Jax belongs on the list.


Thank you for the explanation! I will certainly have an eye on JAX in my roster churn this week, even more so, because they play the afternoon slate. I agree that even an 8ish point game with some turnovers against the Chargers would make them an interesting year long hold.


Not a problem. I still need to refine my model but the goal is to highlight teams that can consistently limit points allowed and produce multiple disruptions per game.


I’ve been back and forth on stashing JAX this week as I have a roster spot available and nobody else looks tantalizing on the wire, you convinced me. I’d rather stash them now and see how they do against LAC than have to hope they fall to me in the waiver picking order.


Eagles don’t look bad either. Maybe cowboys


Like I mentioned to another poster on the Chargers, the Eagles look good too but they didn't appear in my top 5 based on the limited sample of games played thus far. They had a strong showing against MIN with 2 sacks, 3 INTs and holding them to 7 points but the week before the Lions scored 35, and only allowed 1 sack and gave 1 INT. That isn't to say that the Eagles are bad but that other teams had better performances over 2 weeks. Again, my analysis is more based on performance against their match up and doesn't factor difficulty but the model looks better with more games.


biggest point for the eagles defense is their schedule is a cakewalk pretty much all season. cardinals are the only fairly good offense they face in the next two months, until the packers the last sunday of november


>biggest point for the eagles defense is their schedule is a cakewalk pretty much all season. Fair point but you would be ***predicting*** based on the projection of the schedule, which isn't what I am doing. Don't misunderstand my text. I never said the Eagles aren't good. I just note that they aren't showing up in my model after 2 weeks. The difference is simply the process that we choose to evaluate defenses.




They look good but not in the top 5 based on the limited sample. Their game one was really good accumulating 6 sacks and 3 INTs but followed that up against KC with 1 sack only. Mind you, KC is a tough match up but based on how I am watching defenses, 1 sack even against a tough offense doesn't leave me confident in recommending them. Still its only been 2 games and there are plenty of games left for the Chargers to move up.


Totally fair assessment... Their schedule going forward looks nice though


I just picked up the chargers defense because of their upcoming schedule


Sacks will come - they’ve got so many dogs on d


They did only give up 3 tds to one of the best offenses and qbs in the league. I'd still consider them elite. They got the wind taken out of their sails by that pick 6 too.


True I just don’t wanna drop them and then they figure it out you know?


I felt really slick getting a decent performance out of the ravens week 1 and then dropping them as a landmine for someone to pick up and play last week. Unfortunately I dropped them for the browns soooo. I spent $3 to hopefully roll with the chargers the next few weeks


I picked up bengals after the draft, they have not treated me well in 2 plus match ups


Colts for sure. I only drafted them because they had such an easy early schedule, and they've even screwed that up. Gotta move on.






Broncos and Colts.


Broncos have a ton of talented players on their D. I think it's just scheming/play calling by the coaches that's making them suck. I hope they turn it around.


In utter disbelief that my 177th pick has been mediocre rather than great so far.


Had the broncos def for first two weeks and thought they’d feast vs Seahawks and Texans, they only did so so. Dropped them and going with Eagles defense instead


Colts have been going through some injuries but I still don’t trust them. I got lucky with waivers yesterday after someone dropped Chargers dst before the chiefs game


Had Packers, dropped them for Brob and dropped Broncos D for Chargers this week. Probably going to stream ROS (worked well for me last year)


Denver. Dropped them for the Cowboys, and another owner immediately picked them up to stash. He must know something I don’t.


Theyll be a statistically good defense (top 10) in terms of yards/allowed and holding down pts against, but I dont think they'll be super flashy for fantasy sakes.


As someone from the UK new to NFL which teams have the best/better defense in the league?




Anyone else? They are one of the only teams i know have a good defense 😂


Nope, everyone else sucks.


The 49ers, Packers, Chargers, Buccaneers, and maybe the Saints should be pretty strong on defense.


Can’t imagine their ADP was anything better than 15th round


Browns. Can’t trust


Miami. I feel like they’ll get into a bunch of shootouts now. Dropped them and was able to grab TB.


Browns. No shot I'm starting them tonight. The GOD /u/subvertadown has them listed as #1, and I get it. Gotta disagree these week tho.


The Browns have been bad. But all the analysts I see have them ranked Top-3 this week. They must know something I don’t. So, clearly I’m starting them again.


Ravens D pooped the bed even with scoring a kickoff return right at the start


Steelers without TJ Watt. No juice


My boy it’s a defense you shouldn’t be holding any D long term unless it’s the bills


After reading through this thread, God am I glad most of my leagues have replaced D/ST with an extra flex spot


Last week i went with the strategy of just picking up the defense that played the jets. Didn’t go too well


SF for me I had high hopes….I’m holding on them but keeping a close eye on them


What are you talking about? SF defense is one of the best in the league this year.


I’ve heard they are decent this year no?


I’m starting SF against the broncos