"The gas leaks on Nord Stream 1 and 2 are being investigated by the German state as deliberate attacks. Now SVT can reveal that measuring stations in both Sweden and Denmark registered strong underwater explosions in the same area as the gas leaks on Monday. \- There is no doubt that these are blasts or explosions, says Björn Lund, lecturer in seismology at the Swedish National Seismic Network, SNSN. The triple leaks on Nord Stream 1 and 2 on Monday are being investigated as probable sabotage. Now SVT can reveal that the Swedish National Seismic Network detected two clear explosions in the area on Monday. One of the explosions had a magnitude of 2.3, and was registered at as many as 30 measuring stations in southern Sweden. \- You can clearly see how the waves bounce from the bottom to the surface. There is no doubt that it was a blast. We even had a station in Gnosjö that picked this up, says Björn Lund, who is a lecturer in seismology and director of the Swedish national seismic network, which measures Swedish earthquakes and explosions. Same area The first explosion was recorded at 02:03 on the night of Monday and the second at 19:04 on Monday evening. The warnings about the gas leaks came from the Maritime Administration at 1:52 p.m. and 8:41 p.m. on Monday, respectively, after ships detected bubbles on the surface. SVT has obtained the coordinates of the measured explosions and they are in the same area where the gas leaks were registered. "Used to get information about explosions" The last time a similar seismological event was registered in the area was in 2016. According to Björn Lund, it is not an area that is usually used for exercises by the defense. \- We usually get information about explosions that take place underwater, but sometimes we don't get it. In this case, we have not received any information. According to Björn Lund, the information about the explosions has been forwarded to the Swedish Armed Forces. SVT has asked the Swedish Armed Forces for a comment."


I'm assuming that based on their commentary, that the pressures involved between the pipe and the water outside it would mean a completely innocent explosion is not really possible. Like a weakening of the structure would cause an implosion, and register very differently.


Well that and pipes don’t tend to explode on their own.


And not at the same time either


Well it's not typical is it


Well there are a lot of these ~~ships~~ pipes going around the world all the time, and very seldom does anything like this happen.


I just don’t want people thinking that russian pipelines aren’t safe


Outside of the environment?


They do actually, gas is under pressure in these pipes. But not twice in such a short period of time and within such a distance.


Right, but I mean that they sound pretty certain that it was an explosion, and not some other form of catastrophic failure.


Why would Russia blow up their own pipeline if they can just shut it off or put it on “maintenance” again ?


Bear in mind that most of the oligarchs that have tragically passed away under mysterious circumstances were Gazprom and Lukoil executives. Maybe gas and oil oligarchs are starting to question the Gremlin in the Kremlin and this is Vlad‘s way of burning all the bridges and laying the ground for his own “patriotic war”


Today the Baltoc pipeline was opened that connects Poland to Denmark and Norway. The pipeline travels south of the Island of Gotland, and is not far away from the southern explosion. It's a veiled threat that if they can blow up Nord Stream, they can blow up the Baltic Pipeline.


This is some James Bond Supervillain type stuff.


To avoid breach of contract. They don't want to pay for penalties for non-delivery




It's a demonstration of capability too. "We can do this now, we can do this later, we can do this elsewhere and on other subsea stuff."


"we can do this when winter is coldest"


To escalate things without having to directly attack another country. Same reason as the referendums and the thinly veiled nuclear threats. Russia is not going to win at this rate with conscripts that have no equipment vs western equiped Ukrainians. If he raises the stakes he gets to (1) deny involvement and create uncertainty within Russia and (2) escalate the situation and hope this causes other countries to back down.


Cause shutting it off looks bad and putting it on a maintenance is sus, meanwhile a leak looks more believable. But still it doesn't make a whole lot of sense.


> Cause shutting it off looks bad Were you under the impression it was open? Russia shut it down months ago.


NS1 has already been shut off since a while back and NS2 was never opened. Both pipes was pressurized but not transferring any gas as it were. This action was only a demonstration of the capabilities and nothing else as the energy market shrugged as nothing of value was lost and Russia has to foot the bill since they own the pipeline.


Russia have invaded and murdered thousands of Ukrainian people. You think they are worried about how shutting down a pipeline looks?


They're literally seen as evil fascist war criminals I don't think Russia cares about it's image much anymore


[Here is where Gnosjö is located](https://www.google.com/maps/place/Gnosj%C3%B6/@56.7303687,14.1255358,7z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x46508e1b07e20f53:0xa54979407db62e27!8m2!3d57.3580398!4d13.7371898). That gives you some idea of the size of the blast.


Aren't these seismology stations hyper sensitive though, don't really know much the the distance tells me about the size of the blast at least


Considering they measured it all the way from Kalix, the instruments are quite sensitive.


> of the size of the blast ... or the sensitivity of modern instruments.


Weak. Modern instruments can't take anything anymore. Back in my day instruments wouldn't care if the neighbours house collapsed! Those where some instruments. Rock solid and reliable. If that meter was in the red it was probably your blood. They don't make them like that anymore I tell you!




Where was the blast?


of course it happens when baltic pipeline is opened this week. russia trying to scare markets to keep gas prices high after few weeks of them lowering and also spread fear of sabotage to other gas infrastructure.


Obvious Sabotage.


German newspaper report goverment sources, saying they cannot come up with any other rational explanation then sabotage.


I’m confused who is sabotaging who? The pipeline blows but there wasn’t any gas going through it no? Honestly this puts Europe in a bad situation regarding energy but is good in that it essentially forces them to push for alternatives… it’s like blowing up the bridge behind you… there is no retreat and you would have to fight or die


> The pipeline blows but there wasn’t any gas going through it no? [They heard about my plan to pump sewage through the pipeline in the opposite direction and decided to preemptively destroy it](https://old.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/xoij93/breaking_news_sabotage_or_accident_nord_stream_2/ipyu7pb/)


Bruh what have you done


🙈 I need to be more careful about what I say


Too late. Fecal Bureau of Investigation has seen your post, too. The Brown Hawk helicopters are on their way to you already


Gas was still in the pipe. That is why there is a mile wide circle of gas bubbling out of the sea. So much methane is being released. The environment is getting more fucked by the day.


I’d like to see how this compares relative to say melting permafrost or cow burps, my gut says it’s a drop in the bucket.


Someone who wants Europe unable to remove sanctions IF the people demand it.


Yeah, right now it's anyone's bet who did it. Russia *might* have done it to make energy even more scarce, and thus more costly, and with the threat of it now being more scarce, Western governments might be more tempted to grab what they can. Alternatively, Western forces may have destroyed it to sort of force everyone to go "cold turkey", and get their arses in gear finding an alternative. Lagging far behind, it was some kind of accident, but given the simultaneous explosions, I sincerely doubt it.


It's Russia. They are currently running drones around Norwegian oil platforms 24/7. Russia will likely cut Norwegian oil and gas supply to Europe next.


Blowing up their own pipelines is one thing. If they destroy infrastructure belonging to Norway they might as well start attacking nuclear power plants in Europe.


Russia blowing up any norwegian oil and gas related is instant article 5


I dont want to live trough it, but I am not sure if that would happen and in some morbid way it would be interesting to see what would happen.


> interesting Hah yeah... as a kid I didn't understand "May you live in interesting times" as a curse. Now I do, and I don't want to live in interesting times anymore


Yeah, I’d welcome some boring times now.


Same 😭


>I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo. >"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us." J.R.R. Tolkien


What a weird thing for Gandalf to say. Wasn't he immortal?


The Maiar are immortal but not invincible. Gandalf is one of the few Maiar that interacted with the people of Middle Earth regularly. His perspective, especially of the hobbits, is more personal and connected than the other “gods” of Middle Earth. As one of the Istari, his mission was specifically to defend the free peoples from Sauron’s evil. It’s stated that he considered himself the weakest of the Istari and that he feared Sauron. So while you are right that Gandalf is immortal, his personal humility and love for the people of Middle Earth makes him very human and understanding of their struggles.


That’s very much Tolkien himself stepping in with his own perspective as a veteran of of The Great War, IMO. A lot of Mordor’s senseless destruction and defilement of Middle Earth was influenced by those experiences.


Yeah. Anytime I see that line, that’s really what stands out to me.


Not really that weird of a thing for Gandalf to say considering he is giving comfort and counsel to someone who is not immortal.


Even less weird also considering that he literally died at most a few months ago.


He did say them, not us.


Living through that time was Gandalf’s entire point to exist.


There are plenty of things Article 5 could do without invading Russia itself. Like destroying their navy, shooting down their planes over Ukraine, Blockading their trade and starving out Königsberg. I would imagine doing an intervention in Ukraine could work too


Depends if Russia chose to use nukes or not once the 12 minutes of fighting are over and their entire army is destroyed. If yes the world is obliterated, if no Russia is under nato occupation for a while. And Russian issue with us not being religious or in a fondamental way of life difference, there is a lot of chance this would turn into a happy story Germany like than in an abject failure Afghanistan style, or a meh Iraq style.


>turn into a happy story Germany like It could turn into germany after ww1 or germany after ww2.


Hopefully we'll have learned to not make a weimer republic again... ...but if I recall correctly the European allies intentionally fucked up Germany after ww1 against the wishes of the US so there may have never been a mistake in the first place


France wanted Germany crippled, others didn't, the result was a half-thing that meant Germany was humiliated but no crippled.


Calling the outcome in Iraq “meh” is an almost hilarious understatement. I personally would have gone with “massive, multigenerational geopolitical catastrophe”, but you do you.


It would be a guaranteed invocation of art 5 and even if the US for some reason wouldnt honor their commitment to the treaty (extremely unlikely) the rest of nato is still *vastly* superior to the Russian armed forces.


Good news, you might not live through it.


It would be the spectacle of the century. This is what US and allied forces were capable of... 30 years ago: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zxRgfBXn6Mg


We would have to prove it was them though


Its not a court of law, its politics. Even a covert operation can be a casus belli if the other members agree it is.


I'm just being pedantic, but they are attacking nuclear power plants in Europe (Zaporizhiza (sp?))


Well, let’s see what happens if they try and do the same to France lol. Wait, I’m kidding. Don’t fucking try


We all know radioactive clouds will not cross the French border, so we're safe on that account


At least they would stop at the Walloon-Flemish language border I think? Maybe spill into Brussels though.


They can only enter Flanders if they swear they'll respect the Dutch language nature of the region


Not to cause a new chernobyl disaster though. They would have done it by now if that was the case. Also, people need to realize that bombing a nuclear power plant to intentionally cause a disaster is *pretty much the same level* as dropping a nuke.


I'd say worse because it undermines global confidence in nuclear energy as well as make everyone side eye the power plants near where they live as military targets.


That's not pedantic. It's a very good point to highlight, fair play.


Yeah this is why op is talking completely out the ass, Russia won't attack NATO nations, doing so would mean the overnight extinction of the Putin regime. The NATO-sourced equipment deployed thus far in the Ukraine is a fraction of what just the European nations have in reserve, and that's not including their armed forces that will actually use the equipment. Not to mention that this kind of provocation could enable the US pacific fleet to attack Vladivostok and sever Russia's pacific trade routes (although there's a good chance they won't because this is on China's doorstep, but an attack on a core NATO country might be enough).


Here's the thing. Putin can sell losing to NATO. He can't sell losing to [email protected]#% Ukraine. Claiming Britain's SAS & US Seal Team Six already in the woods of Kharkiv isn't going to be accepted by most Russians. Reminds me in pre-school I had a fight scheduled at 3PM so I made sure that it got to the teacher as my out and I avoided being called a chicken by the kids.


>Here's the thing. Putin can sell losing to NATO. He can sell losing to NATO to the voters, he'll have a hard time selling anything while he and his entire power structure are bused to the Hague, or worse the morgue. If Russia attacks infrastructure on NATO ground NATO won't push Russia out of the Ukraine, it will have a field trip to Moscow and Putin's vacation homes.




The Czech Republic is in NATO, and [that didn't stop Russia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Vrb%C4%9Btice_ammunition_warehouses_explosions). Same goes for the Novichok poisonings in the UK.


As a result of that Czechia expelled Russian diplomats (as did Slovakia, Lithuania, Latvia, and Estonia), cut off Rosatom from their new nuclear reactor project, which I assume in 2020 was about all they could've done considering the EU and especially Germany's reliance on Russian gas, not to mention all this happening during the height of the first pandemic wave. **The EU is no longer reliant on Russian gas.**


When the Russian pipeline is blown up first, Russia has set up plausible deniability when the Norwegian pipeline is hit next. "See it is not us Russians, it is someone else. Why else was our pipe hit too?"


Except the Norwegian pipeline is probably under surveillance, any attempt will be painfully transparent.


The Norwegian gas pipelines are 8800km in total length. Equivalent to the distance from Oslo to Bangkok. It's going to be difficult to surveil all of it. Edit: typo. Thanks /u/ftl_og


That part of sea will probably be so saturated with NATO active sonar from every member that has a ship or a sub in vicinity that fish will think they're in disco.


>Mister Ambassador there are so many sonar buoys in the North Atlantic I could walk from here to Greenland...


Nobody needs to prove anything. As someone here wrote, it's not a court.


I don't think the West gives even the faintest whiff of a fuck about Russia's plausible deniability any longer. By now you can write an encyclopedia-sized work about all the nasty, murderous shit Putin's Russia has pulled (and subsequently denied, despite an abundance of evidence). The game fundamentally and irrevocably changed the very second the first Russian soldier crossed the Russo-Ukrainian border on February the 24th and resulted in what hadn't happened before: the Western gloves have finally come off, and they will remain off at least until Russia has regained its senses again.


Depends on who "the West" audience is. There probably is a large segment of the electorate who will dismiss dismiss Western accusations against Russia as propaganda. Just look at how Biden's warnings of invasion were ignored in February. That could make it hard for politicians to take action on anything less than 100% prood.


Besides, the gear we've given Ukraine isn't even our modern stuff, it's the older models basically while RuZZia has gone all out. Embarrassing.


This situation right now is the craziest during my lifetime.


Why would they destroy pipelines they already turned off? If anything this would benefit other actors by removing the possibility of russian gas being a motivator for anyone to go easier on russian sanctions.


Ok, the biggest beneficiary of this would be vice chancellor Habeck. But I really doubt that the greens have blown up NS1.


I don’t understand why Russia would do so. Putin just has to use whatever random explanation to close the tap… no need to explode the pipe…


Source on the drones? That might be interesting


https://www.nrk.no/rogaland/uidentifiserte-droner-i-nordsjoen_-_-vaer-pa-vakt-1.16113256 https://www.vg.no/nyheter/innenriks/i/BW3mg0/uidentifiserte-droner-ser-ikke-ut-som-amatoerer In Norwegian, but you should be able to get a decent translation with Google translate.


https://www.is.fi/ulkomaat/art-2000008546483.html Here's a Finnish source for that back in January, there was suspicious drones in Sweden as well flying over nuclear power plants. This was not a single event, it happened multiple times over a three different power plants.


How does Russia benefit from breaking their own pipeline? Flows were already at zero, and Russia controls flow anyway. The explosion weakens the position of the Euro doves, who are pressuring EU nations to reduce weapon flows to Ukraine in exchange for Putin restarting NS. Edit: as someone else commented, this could be Russian internal politics, Putin "burning the ships" to quell his own doves. Russia is a disaster.


They could just shut down the supply instead


Russians gain nothing from it though, with the potential of the ability for the pipelines to be turned back on and supply Europe they could use that as a bargaining chip for ending the Ukraine war. With the pipelines broken, that's off the table.


Nothing about any of this is "obvious"; > One UK insider speculated that any explosions were unlikely to have been caused by a submarine or underwater vehicle, because their presence would have been detected in the relatively shallow Baltic waters. Sections of the pipelines are between 80 metres and 110 metres deep. Even if it was sabotage, it doesn't necessarily have to be Russia, considering; > Since no gas has flowed through either of the pipelines since the start of the month, German authorities have been quick to reassure people that the leaks will not affect its plan to fill gas storage tanks in time for winter. Particularly as full sanctions will go into effect starting October. From that point on the pipelines would have been even more useless than they already were. But what they very much presented was a possible "way back" to Russian gas, a way that is now destroyed in a very expensive way. So going back to Russian gas now would not only require an absolute political wind change, it would need actual financial investments, from both parties. And there are very much parties that would be interested in such a situation. Just like there is also a non-zero chance that this could have been a freak accident with some really unfortunate timing, reality sometimes is like that.


In two places with accompanied explosions? Keeping in mind those pipes don't have an explosive atmosphere? Thats as zero probability as you can get.


The explosives might have been planted there years ago and detonated remotely just now. In that case we'll never find out who did it.


that's quite the random argument


What a coincident but today a new Norweigan-Polish pipeline "Baltic Pipe" is opened https://www.euronews.com/2022/09/27/baltic-pipe-norway-poland-gas-pipeline-opens-in-key-move-to-cut-dependency-on-russia


That is interesting and I think lends some credibility to the idea that this is intended as a threat to other pipelines.


Or did they hit their own pipeline by mistake?


"Shoigu, did you blow up the new pipeline?" "Yes, both of them." "..."


hahaha, classic Shoigu *closing* *music*


Hahaha I choose to believe this! Russia blew up the wrong pipeline, then they blew up another wrong pipeline!


And Russians will sabotage it within weeks, and go “hey ours was hit too!! Clearly was not us!!”


According to Spiegel the CIA warned the German government beforehand


I knew it. The moment the news appeared earlier today, I instantly argued saying it must have been done rather with tools or else seismological stations would have picked up an explosion, if the leaks were blown out. And here we go.


Considering the size of the leak, tools would have been insanely dangerous for the persons or material involved (and likely to leave proofs). Explosion seemed more likely imho. But yeah definitive proof now. I am wondering why they would do that though. I mean, they have the control of the tap on their side so it's not just a question of stopping the gaz deliveries. It feels like that want to make sure they will be no gaz deliveries in the future.


If it was Russia, we will know within a week. They couldn't even swap urine unnoticed.


The CIA warned Berlin back in summer. Which imo tells you everything you would want to know. The CIA will certainly not collect intelligence from targets not worthy the CIA's effort (Russia is). Most likely, the CIA would not have shared intelligence with Germany if it had been any other adversary (who???) than Russia.


I mean the CIA probably spy on everyone in some capacity. Like their cousin the NSA is authorized to spy on every other country in the world except 4. (The other 4 members of the 5 eyes specifically) I imagine the CIA has similar reach. “Just in case”


You can't possibly know what the CIA's true motives are or how they operate. It wasn't that long ago that the US (with the help of Denmark) was caught spying on several high profile politicians in Europe, Angela Merkel was one of their victims. America may act like our friend in need but really they're just looking out for themselves. I'm not hating Americans in general just their politicians.


Guess what? Germans spies on Americans too https://www.newsweek.com/germany-spying-white-house-628254?amp=1


Espionage isn’t exclusive to America


We should be carefull about our undersea internet cables, remember russia mapped them, he may be going for a total war... Maybe not but we should be prepared for it


Russia can’t fight a total war. They can’t even fight Ukraine.


They may think like Japan in WW2, a big hit right in the beginning to leave everyone stunned and give them time to prepare/mobilize, this may include tatical nuclear weapons. It sounds crazy but Putin is killing every opposition, leaving only the crazy warmongers to advise


NATO has spent 7-8 months increasing the readiness in Europe. There will be no surprise.


Dude the hit was like a year ago. They aren't surprising anyone now


Japan was fighting China for four years before they attacked Pearl Harbour and the western colonies.


Japan wasn't getting its shit kicked in before pearl harbor, though. While Russia has already lost their black sea flagship to a navy-less nation and is cannibalizing its st petersburg AA systems to reinforce their forces in Ukraine, after having lost thousands of square kilometers of land in less than a month. Also there's a fuckload more surveillance globally now and any strike leaving Russia that's significant enough to threaten any NATO emplacement will be detected long before it hits. Russia is not Imperial Japan and today's world and technology are barely comparable to the 40s.


>is cannibalizing its st petersburg AA systems to reinforce their forces in Ukraine Are they luring people from AA meetings with Vodka, and sending them to the front lines?


The real mobilization people aren't talking about.


what big hit are you talking about russian solidiers dont even get any equipppment anymore in their own baracks in russia they slepp on the floor


lol, release the Poles and Russia delenda est.


That worked out SO well for Japan, didn’t it?


They very much can and we should not be complacent. It doesn't take much to dramatically disturb our delicate way of life. Energy shortages? potential power cuts? high prices cause major impact to economies, which we are already seeing and it's not even winter yet. Internet going down? Major outages? that crashes economies. Satellites being taken out? no more GPS anywhere? that ruins militaries, not just economies. These are before any actual military casualties or advances are made. They've orchestrated one of the three and we're already facing a lot of pressure. It can get a lot worse and they can do a lot worse, long before the spectre of nuclear weapons rears its ugly head.


while these are valid concerns, russia is the country with protests, a mayor economic catastrophe and a fleeing population.


Lol Russia can’t defeat Ukraine. I’d love to see them try to fight NATO


If I can’t use Reddit while on the toilet at work, I’ll invade Russia myself.


[Russia has previously cut communication cables between Norway and Svalbard](https://thebarentsobserver.com/en/security/2022/02/unknown-human-activity-behind-svalbard-cable-disruption)


>They have probably alreeady placed devices on them to explode them if they want, they have been entering Icelandic water with nuclear submarines for months before they invaded Ukraine. There was a suspicious damage of one of the sea-string close to Norway that happened during one of their secret expositions... News in icelandic about this but translatable in chrome. https://www.ruv.is/kveikur/russneskum-tundurspilli-siglt-i-kringum-island/ Great find. I was sceptical at first, but bombing a Pipeline is a clear step up from cables. I guess they tested it at first, to see if anyone notices/how will they react


They have probably alreeady placed devices on them to explode them if they want, they have been entering Icelandic water with nuclear submarines for months before they invaded Ukraine. There was a suspicious damage of one of the sea-string close to Norway that happened during one of their secret expositions... News in icelandic about this but translatable in chrome. [https://www.ruv.is/kveikur/russneskum-tundurspilli-siglt-i-kringum-island/](https://www.ruv.is/kveikur/russneskum-tundurspilli-siglt-i-kringum-island/)


Yea i remember this, now they know where our underwater fiber is and i don't like it. Well anyone can Google the positioning of the cables so it makes it extremely weird the funny thing is the icelandic government couldn't care less, didn't ask any questions nor anything.


Russia cut the undersea cables to Svalbard in the spring of 2022. Could not be proved, but strong suspicion


> spring of 2022 [It was in winter](https://thebarentsobserver.com/en/security/2022/02/unknown-human-activity-behind-svalbard-cable-disruption) (2022-01-07) close to the invasion of Ukraine.


They didn't manage to cut Internet in Ukraine, did they? I'm not saying this couldn't happen, but overall I think Internet has more resilience built in that what we think. Edit: The article on Svalbard says exactly this, someone cut a cable so some redundancy was lost but communication remained.


So long Reddit, it's been fun.


It has?


Sure, why not. Don't be so Swedish.


The worst insult known to norwegians, and you're just casually dropping it like it's nothing. 😆


The internet cables are next. Those are obvious provocations to drag Europe into Putin's impotent war so the looming defeat isn't as humiliating.


Fortunately there will still be satellites. Michael Jackson is looking at up from above and shaking his head.


OK, I am curious, why Michael Jackson?


Michael Jackson invented space.


And the moonwalk. Besides We Are The World.


I just mentioned this up-thread but remember how Russia had an unannounced test a few months ago where they shot down an old Soviet satellite? It seems they’ve taken both wired and wireless communications into account.


satelites arnt enough to cover all the trafic. Submarine cables represent a very big share of the total


To people that are saying Russians had no interest in sabotaging the pipelines: Russians might not have, but Putin did. There very likely have been high profile people in Kremlin and around, that wished Putin stopped the war and the gas trades would continue. Instead of dealing with these people directly, Putin might have simply removed the possibility of it.


But supplying or witholding gas to frozen Europe was Putin's trump card. This completely wrecks that. Why would EU lay off Russia now thst they can't even supply gas?


The EU was never going to lay off Russia. Putin, planning his next escalation, probably knows this better than anyone. He wants to make sure no one can topple him and quickly make peace and restart gas deliveries. He is burning the ships.


This makes the most sense to me. Putin removed some leverage for those looking to replace him


I think you could be right.Putin only cares about his own survival. Not about the country, the people, his perception.


Yeah it’s like Cortes burning his ships after they landed in Mexico. No going back. The referendums in Ukraine are the same thing.


This makes a lot of sense. Especially if he is hell-bent on Ukraine, whatever he assumes he might get from there you could expect that Europe would never get gas from Russia until international borders are returned to their status quo. So why keep those pesky tubes in the baltic rusting away as a nuisance when they can be eliminated while also sending a message to the west?


Besides seismology I assume the area is closely monitored with sonar and the like. Does the data indicate these explosions were the result of munitions detonating, or explosion of gas in the pipeline, or possibly just localized over pressure bursting the pipes? In the last two, did these pipelines have digital components that may have been Weaponized through a cyber attack?


Well… the Swedish coastline next to it has had visitors from Russia/Soviet before. But the military might not want to tell more about it at the moment if they have data.


Soon on every russia sponsored news media: “The nazi Ukrainian regime is responsible for that” Ukraine: we have 0 submarines…




Don't care, still Ukraine. - RT or something (probably)


You can free dive down to 70 meters, which is apparently the depth of these explosions.


Now I don’t want to point fingers at Russia. But it was definitely the Russians.


The Russians loose the most out of this. They were clearly planning to use the prospect of turning the gas back on over winter as a way to push some EU countries to break rank and reverse sanctions. Now they have zero leverage over the EU. Very Strange if it was them, there must be more to the story.


I wonder that the pipelines didn't fell out of a window or turned from life to death by heart problems.




Wait a second... there's no emergency shut off valves between where the pipe ruptured and the well head? That seems extremely foolish.


This is what worries me. Seems to indicate Putin really is all in. If he is willing to sacrifice Russian oil/gas infrastructure, he must really believe there is no end to the war in sight. His next move could be quite aggressive.


Thing is, all this infrastructure is connected. Once the pipelines and gas wells start exploding, there won’t be any domestic natural gas available either…Just in time for winter. Gazprom knows this, Gazprom may have to make a choice, At a certain point Putin and Gazprom will either both cease to exist or be on opposite sides. And yes your point of what could happen between now and that eventuality is scary especially for everyone in the Northern Hemisphere.


Well I think it’s Putin kneecapping his competitors. Imagine someone in the Kremlin wants to push Putin out. That person may get IMMMENSE help from the EU if they can promise to restart gas flows once taking power. Now? Well the gas can’t be restarted anyway, so anyone seeking to topple Putin has nothing to offer the west economically. This move make Putin stronger and everyone else in Russia weaker.


Russia hurt itself in its confusion.


ITT: A lot of accounts who are *just* certain this has nothing to do with Russia and must be NATO attacking itself. Nice to have you all back, comrades.


Russia wins nothing with a false attack here, no? They cannot strong arm europe anymore if there is no viable way to actually ship the gas, and not a single international country will go "Oh no, poor Russia lets help them!" So call me conspiracy theorist, but i don't think Russia did it. Why would they do that, they win nothing, it just cuts the possibility to selling gas to europe even more so than before


Agreed. I also can not imagine that this is a sabotage act from Russia because it would sabotage them more than us. Yes, they are incredibly stupid with their decisions lately but I don‘t think they are this stupid. This whole thing is really odd and mysterious to me because nobody really profits of it. There is not even gas flowing for weeks now and it won't certainly flow again in the future. I hope we will get answers rather sooner than later


> This whole thing is really odd and mysterious to me because nobody really profits of it. Anyone that is not Europe or Russia profits from it. So you could point to USA or China benefiting from further destabilization. OTOH, Russia might benefit from increased gas prices this will cause, further eroding European economy for what looks like it might be his final card on Ukraine with the mobilization. Certainly a stretch, but even Germany can get some benefit from this, by shutting up protests against nord stream closure.


I’ve been trying to find out if there is anyone who might benefit from this. So far, apart from the various theories about why Putin might do this, the only thing I’ve been able to find out is that Belarus would benefit by increasing leverage on Russia. They are now in control of the only pipeline for Russian gas to reach Europe. But would they/could they do this? Doubtful!?


>the only thing I’ve been able to find out is that Belarus That pipeline also goes through Poland, and Poland, unlike Belarus, actually has a fleet.


I'm genuily surprised that people don't see it. Obviously Poland benefits from it. Why do you think our governments and media have been crying over NS? If there's no NS, and we start buying Russian gas again, it has to go through Poland and we can charge transit fees. This was the main reason for building the NS along with circumventing Belarus. I'm not saying Poland did this, mainly because our government is too dumb to even come up with such an idea but the fact is that destruction of NS would be excellent news for Poland. Side note, pipeline going through Belarus isn't the only one transporting gas to Europe. There is another one going through Ukraine


Perhaps because it shuts down the oligarchs who want to open the gas lines, many influential Russians are dependent on that gas money and they want this war to end. Also, I'm not sure about what type of contract they have with Germany, it could be that they cannot just shut them off as "sanctions" without breaking the contract, hence previously they claimed "technical difficulties" and maybe now they went all the way. All in all, I think that Russia is the main suspect in this case since they're practically the only ones with rational motivations for this. I don't see any conspiracy theory on this, unless we go very deep which is unlikely, but who knows...


Here we go, casus belli (deliberate attacks on allied territory)?


Explosions might have been in international waters.


Doesn’t matter. The pipeline itself is private property owned by Nord Stream AG, which in turn is majority owned by Gazprom, which in turn is owned by the Russian government. Just like a ship in international waters, an attack on it would be seen as an attack on the nation owning it. No idea who the saboteur would be. Very well could be the Russians so that they can claim someone (NATO, US, EU, etc…) blew up Russian infrastructure as a basis to get more militarily aggressive.


Actually not fully right. Half of each pipeline is also owned by a German pendance of Gazprom - which in fact is just about to become stated owned (Germany announced that 2 days ago or so). So simplified one could say, whoever clearly attacked and blew up the pipelines, directly attacked German federal state property.


>Just like a ship in international waters, an attack on it would be seen as an attack on the nation owning it. You need to take severe environmental effects into account. Russia will not be affected as much as the countries having longer coastlines at the Baltic Sea.


> No idea who the saboteur would be. Very well could be the Russians so that they can claim someone (NATO, US, EU, etc…) blew up Russian infrastructure as a basis to get more militarily aggressive. You can bet their media at least will be using the "we've been attacked" card.


They are in Swedish and Danish waters.


The maps I've seen have all indicated the pipelines are in international water, but in Sweden's and Denmark's respective "economical zone".


I suppose I'm too ignorant to know the difference. You might be right.


Yeah attacks have to be in territorial waters to trigger article 5 (from Denmark since we aren't in yet)


Radek Sikorski MEP and former Minister of Foreign Affairs of Poland [is thanking the USA](https://twitter.com/radeksikorski/status/1574800653724966915), for supposedly blowing up the NordStream pipeline


Well, that's that. Nicely played. Unencumbered by the prospect of ever receiving gas from Russia in the future, Germany should now be free is go all out to support the Ukrainians.


Clearly sabotage. Would not be surprised if this was Russia, considering Gazprom executives are conveniently dying by “suicide” or “accident”.