By - Herramadur
After Switzerland voted to legalise same-sex marriage in a nationwide referendum on September 26th, 2021, the new law has entered into force on July 1st.
It wasn't too long ago women weren't allowed to vote in some parts of Switzerland. Direct democracy is slow.
1971 something, some regions didn’t allow female voting until the 1990s.
*didn't allow women voting on cantonal laws and elections. From 1971 on every woman could vote for the national elections and referendums. And the only two regions to hold on that long were the Appenzells and nobody likes them anyway.
> And the only two regions to hold on that long were the Appenzells
both of them? I vaguely remembered Innerrhoden to be the one that held on *thanks* to their staunch Catholic conservatism
Outer was 1990 by vote, Inner was 1991 by Constitutional Court I think.
I guess that took balls.
Ha. Ha ha.
I really shouldn't laugh but the idea of telling women they aren't allowed to vote because they're women is too funny to me
The arguments against were super silly:
Since the women couldn't vote the campaigns were aimed at men. Things like "women get ugly", "who will care for the children if not the woman" and channeled capital G Gamer energy of keeping politics out of the family.
I think there was also a funny interview where an Appenzell women didn't want the women voting right as it would imply the men can now decide by their own. Implying that the men had to vote what the women told them.
Merkel would have slapped each and one of them with [her bazookas](https://image.stern.de/9390022/t/Ij/v3/w1440/r1/-/merkel-oper-oslo.jpg).
oh my, that is a charming photo!
Women voting gang represent
Right? This is shit straight out of Borat. How do you say 'My wife can't vote. High five!' with german/swiss accent?
Well why should a woman vote when she should be worrying about what happens in her home, not outside of it? We say oh yeah that's funny....but this was consensus and is in many places in the world.
We had same sex recognized partnership since 2007, which delayed the full marriage debate longer than it really needed to be.
Same for Germany. The recognized partnership law was a compromise that first gave gays some rights, but then stalled everything.
Switzerland will always be the last county to do something. Every new law has to go through such a long legislative and consultative process, usually ending in a referendum, that it will only be done after there is full consensus. It has its advantages, but also holds them back.
And yet they're among the world's few countries with same sex marriage. Half of Europe doesn't have it. In total, 34 countries out of nearly 200.
Not it is not always. Their euthanasia laws are much more progressive than most of Europe for example.
We actually don't have euthanasia laws. We just don't have laws against it and therefore its allowed.
We also decriminalised homosexuality very early on I think and have a fairly hands off drug policy too.
That's very true.
They are NOT one of the last countries to have same sex marriage, worldwide they are among the very few who have it and even within Europe they are far from being the last..
Jesus, Georgia and Armenia with 3% of the population supporting gay marriage. Yes, three percent. That would mean even the majority of LGBT people there don't support it, or they've been taught/forced to repress their feelings by society
And within Europe at least some countries that have had same sex marriage, some still had different legal implications for homosexual couples va heterosexual couples. Eg in Germany the non biological mother in a lesbian married couple has to go through an adoption process to be the legal mother of the child that is born into her marriage with another woman. In France IVF rights for Lesbian couples were only adjusted/granted in 2021 (years after same sex marriage was legalized).
They have very progressive drug policies
Switzerland is ver very very conservative.
They also have referenda for most issues, which results in backward bigotted campaigns to persuade voters.
> ver very very conservative.
Don't overdo it, yes on average we're maybe a bit more conservative than many western and central European countries, but we're mostly just super fucking slow. Gay marriage probably could have passed the vote easily 10-12 years ago. There was never a chance it wouldn't pass.
No it's not, it's just a bit slow and not ultraprogressive. Don't be so childish
Banning gay marriage until 2022, but "just not ultra progressive".
Bigot is spelled with one "g". Also no, I actually campaigned for marriage equality. I was called a "fucking faggot" by angry assholes who didn't want a leaflet. But you know what? I support direct democracy. I know it's slow and sometimes painful but I'll take it over a US style system where 5 judges call the shots and all progress can easily be reversed. No thanks. Direct democracy might be slow but it also prevents vicious backlash. Our progress might be slow but it is steady. So maybe you wanna shut the fuck up when you don't know what you're talking about.
> I support direct democracy
And I support human rights over majority bigotry.
Switzerland is so neutral that there weren't any marriages just "neutral civil arrangements" until recently.
It’s the current year! Fаg marriage should be legal. Also age of consent lowered
At last, congrats
Awww great job Switzerland!
What is up with the Swiss? I can't figure them out. They seem progressive but then they're late to the party with this. And womens rights. Them and Lichtenstein.
This isn’t a shitty question, but what makes you think the Swiss are progressive?
I encounter this mentality often because people think a wealthy country is automatically socially progressive. And while there's often correlation, there are of course outliers.
Another example is Singapore. And of course the social shitholes, the rich Gulf states.
Very, very counted outliers
Even inside a poor country the richest and most educated population is always more friendly to things such as LGBT topics, practically all over the west, until it normalizes
I dont think there is a correlation beyond a certain point. Netherlands, Belgium and Spain are very progressive on the two typical social issues of same sex marriage and euthanisia. They are wealthy but arent among the wealthiest/richest countries. Portugal isnt among the wealthiest either and they got the best decriminalisation drug laws.
A lot of it is support among people versus support in government and comes down to what reforms are allready in place and the luck and coincidence of the timing when something is a social issue. Netherlands was the first country because its relatively progressive and the timing was good because the socialdemocrats formed a coalition with fiscal conservatives and could push through those kind of laws. It likely would have taken more time afterwards with the Christian democrats leading the government the decade after it.
I think a stronger correlation is there with election systems and representation in parliament. Netherlands and Belgium got true propotional repensentation which is messy for forming coalitions but keeps all parties open to cooperate and usually it keeps issues open to be reformed and generally forces the central, centre right and centre left parties to cooperate.
I don't know, truthfully. I guess it was a stereotype that I assumed was correct. But I don't know much about them or their government. I didn't even know they didn't have gay marriage.
No, that’s fair enough. They’re good with social programmes but I think shitty with everything else. Women didn’t get the right to vote until 1971!
Thats also not entirely true
Yeah the las canton to give women the right to vote was in 1990.
There we go
Direct democracy is slow. Whether the people themselves are progressive I have no idea.
More like semi-direct.
We had same sex partnerships before that were almost, but not quite like marriage, so the pressure wasn't as big as in countries where same sex cpuples didn't have any form of official partnerships. They most likely would've been successful with same sex marriage years earlier, but they waited until they were sure they'd win a referendum, because a loss there would've postponed it again by years.
That we were lacking behind with womens right to vote likely had something to do that we had way less men dying in WW2, so we didn't have as many women in the workforce as other European countries. Which kept them less involved overall, so there was less of a social push for it. Of course that doesn't make it right, but it does make some sense of why we were way behind in that regard.
They voted nationally on it. Very few countries did so.
Is this Biden?
Niccce. See you in the marriage equality club in... 2030 or something (maybe? lol)
It is still ilegal in many countries for example Italy or Croatia.
damn they were late
Italy doesn't have it so they're ahead there.
Good news right after the end of pride month. I am bisexual.
Late as fuck
yes!!! i can finally be pansexual in peace knowing that in the future same sex marry is legal :)
Just as with the vote for Women, the slowness of direct democracy really makes it a inferior system.
I dont even buy that Swiss people have any more influence over their legislature than other democracies, seems to be about the same, if not worse considering the glacial pace they move at.
Seems to be working better than just about any other system.
In what way?
Quality of life, wages, etc.
They dont do any better than the Nordics in that regard, only the nordic women did not have to wait until the 80ies to get the vote.
So the question remains as to what the benefit is supposed to be.
Actually, they do. Not by a long shot, but they're still better off.
OECD, The Economist, etc. all have indexes confirming it. Especially when it comes to wages and purchasing power.
I’m shocked! It’s been legal in Canada for 20+ years.
Congrats to all the newlyweds!
Not working like that here, Swiss Citizen have always the last word.
Keep your American politics to yourself