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RidingRedHare

Misleading. Different countries use different methodologies, and the graphic fails to weed out these differences. Sweden's number, for example, is based upon a Swedish statistic which counts every settlement of at least 200 residents. Most other countries have a much higher threshold for urbanisation, such as settlements of at least 5000 or 10000.


slopeclimber

In Poland there is no threshold whatsoever, its based on settlement type and tradition and city status is granted individually


RidingRedHare

This is about urbanisation/urban population, not about city status. Urbanisation is not a well defined term, which is part of the problem with those comparisons. City status is some else. The Swedish "localities and urban areas" stats which are used here count many settlements which are not considered cities in Sweden. English language Swedish source here: https://www.scb.se/en/finding-statistics/statistics-by-subject-area/environment/land-use/localities-and-urban-areas/


slopeclimber

Alright I assumed so because the 60% figure for Poland is really similar to the number of people who live in cities The OP doesnt show source for the Polish number so its tough to know


RidingRedHare

Unfortunately, I don't know the source of the Polish number in that graphic. I can see that 60% number quoted all over the internet, but at least within a few minutes I can't find an actual data source.


mludd

Indeed, for some examples of heavily urbanized Sweden by the standards used for this map: First up is [Metropolitan Venjan in Dalarna County](https://www.google.com/maps/@60.9530006,13.9108394,3a,75y,240.01h,88.69t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1stSfOONWmi3IhEy-EgwrbSw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192), never a quiet moment there. Or perhaps you'd like to visit the [shopping district of Gesunda](https://www.google.com/maps/@60.8856145,14.5463164,3a,75y,338.56h,97.19t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sylOM1VSPGU1KwFX52bBgCQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656). And if neither of those is big enough for you, or perhaps you want to be closer to the coast there's always [Gryt](https://www.google.com/maps/@58.1870438,16.8021583,3a,75y,346.5h,91.36t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s3dDSXY9WK9GJ-OHEvRqBgA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192) or maybe you want to go further south, in that case I'd recommend [Röke](https://www.google.com/maps/@56.2360451,13.5224532,3a,75y,39.24h,100.23t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sPnYYyooWKE_b5lasEJOL1g!2e0!7i16384!8i8192).


GPwat

Yes, that's why I made [this map](https://old.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/psoih2/rural_population_of_europe_compared_with_the/) using universal EU methodology. It shows this data in a much more practical way. The differences are huge.


shoot_dig_hush

Much better. Finland is hilariously wrong in OP's map. It's closer to 50/50.


park777

Better data, but much harder to read. Color selection was not the best


Similar-Cranberry-20

Is funny that Portugal is basicly unchanged.


Katana_sized_banana

Isn't Germany one of the most dense populated countries? Doesn't look that way on both maps.


DrVDB90

It's a bit of a curious number for Belgium. I'm guessing I have a different idea about whether certain regions are urban or rural. I would for example consider a large part of Wallony rural, but that's apparently not the case according to this statistic. I guess my perspective is skewed by the rate of urbanization around me.


Svorky

It can be a bit misleading. If this uses the EU definition a rural area basically means "in this local unit more than 50% live in thinly populated areas", i.e. villages. So it doesn't mean only 2% of Belgians live in small villages, but that 2% of Belgiums live in areas where that's the most common sort of settlement.


DrVDB90

Well yes, that's kind of where my own perspective differs from this statistic. I would put a lot more than 2% of the areas as villages. But at the same time, Belgium is incredibly urbanised to the point that often the borders between villages and cities blur, and they might no longer be considered rural villages according to this statistic. Basically, I'm biased because of my surroundings.


AnaphoricReference

This is surely the cause. Compared to the Netherlands, which has an even higher population density but apparently more rural population, Belgium allows more urban sprawl along rural roads.


kwon-1

NL is, on average, significantly more densely populated than Belgium but you definitely wouldn't feel that way when driving through both countries. NL has a lot more spaces between its cities that are relatively empty, whereas in Belgium the population is much more evenly spread out over its surface. Especially in Flanders.


WallabyInTraining

98% of Belgians identify with Urbanus.


DrVDB90

That's a different definition of urban I guess. But I do also say no to madams in furcoats, so there might be some truth to it.


FluffyMcBunnz

To be fair, I wouldn't be surprised to find out that about 92% of Dutch people also have great sympathy for him. Except ones called Theo, one would presume. \[oh gods now I've got the bloody song stuck in my head\]


naomiandmonkey

I grew up in Austria and now live in the Benelux. It's quite obvious when you come from a different context. In Austria quite many people live at the end of some lost forest road. This is almost never the case in the Benelux, if you're not in a city, on a highway or in between fields of crops, you will most likely be in some town/ never ending road with houses.


DrVDB90

>never ending road with houses. Mostly this one indeed, lintbebouwing (ribbon building) as we call it, is one of the worst infrastructural decisions in Belgian history, and the reason why so many villages and cities are slowly merging together. If the country had been planned more like the Netherlands, there would be a lot more space left for independent small rural villages.


Ekvinoksij

Exactly. It's the same, but even more pronounced in Slovenia. When I went to Belgium I was very surprised by the fact we were moving through different towns, but the buildings never even got sparse, much less stopped altogether.


gothlaw

Spain is where it’s at — not because of its vacation spots or sprawling metropolises. No, because the country is about 80% deserted and you can go miles without seeing another soul. Those are squad goals, my friend.


SkylineReddit252K19S

Interestingly, Spain's metropolises are not sprawling, they are very compact. There aren't any American-style suburbs.


gothlaw

Is there any region that stays cold (or colder for a Mediterranean climate,) let me know. I’ll go buy a house tomorrow. Will have to learn the formal Castilian Spanish though — I speak the Latin American version (and, for instance, if you ask for a car in Spain, you’re literally getting a pig in Honduras. LOL).


SkylineReddit252K19S

Yes, most of the north is quite cold, especially Galicia and Asturias. You'll have to put up with the rain though and the beaches are... not ideal compared to the Mediterranean ones. And they have their own languages apart from Spanish.


ToadOnPCP

It feels like that in most of europe, I remember flying into Paris being amazed at how the neighborhoods just dead ended into the countryside


Adolf_Flopper

Moldova and Bosnia drip


sommi2000

Wait til you see Liechtenstein


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Locedamius

>urban areas, as defined by the country So, useless for comparing different countries


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_Seifer_

Delete your post then...


johnny_hank

As far as I can see the data is based on the world bank https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SP.URB.TOTL.IN.ZS


EriDxD

Portugal in into Eastern Europe (again).


andyrocks

So refreshing to see a map of Europe that includes the UK!


Chino_Kawaii

Why does Austria have so little?


da_longe

Because after the empire fell, there was only 1 big city remaining. Our other 'cities' are barely 100-300k inhabitants.


Chino_Kawaii

Well, it's kinda the same in Czech rep. (sure Brno and Ostrava are slightly above 300 000) and it's much higher I guess it might be because of communism where all the fields were put under co-operative farms and people lost their fields in villages so they moved to cities idk, just my thinking


da_longe

Yes, sounds plausible.


cosmic-radiation

49% of Bosnia lives in cities? Dude is this information from like the 70s or 80s because our villages are empty due to war, unemployment, etc.


CupcakeTrick2999

tidbit on austria whole country has ca 9 mil inhabitants vienna its capital has ca 2 mil inhabitants... half-ish of all urban population in austria lives in vienna another tidbit: my home "city" has 10k inhabitants but isnt a city, thus probably not counted in here. it isnt a city bc population isnt the main factor in granting ascension (yeah sound very hre-y and it is)


oakpope

Germany less urban than France ? I’m quite skeptical of this.


ralemonke

Well, the map shows where people live, not how much empty countryside both countries have. Where I live there is a 1-5k village every 4km, every village connects to 2-5 more villages. I've been to central France there are tiny villages with a 100 people and the next village is 10km away. And of course Paris has more people than the 8-10 biggest cities in Germany combined. Flying at night over both countries tells the same story.


WalkabilityEnjoyer

Regarding Poland - most of 40% are people from suburbia. Poland in the last 20 years have massive usa-like suburban sprawl. It is connected with removal of regulations to fight "housing crisis" that is creating even bigger problems.


wbroniewski

Not really, I think more people are moving to the actual countryside


DiscoKhan

That's what he is talking about. Village where mine grandma lives have build recently few spearment complex where lives around 1k people. Which is funnly enough nowhere near the main villige but is just across the nearby city, it's basically part of it but because of administrative borders technically that's not a case. All of that becouse that villige is a part of different gmina so other coty which is center of it still gets taxes from those people who are usually too lazy to change their tax center despite it quite further. And even when it isn't so extreme you would see similar situation but with larger gap in areas and slow urbanization towards the actual close city. It's absolutely not normal to build 5 floor buildings, actually whole bunch of them in a village. Proper village is opposite of building tall.


AdvancedFollower

I think this does a better job than population density in showing how most Swedes live. Yes, we do have large stretches of wilderness where nobody lives, but most people live in urban areas and cities, not in some log cabin deep in the forest.


AllanKempe

Which also debunks the ridiculuous confusion during early Corona of why Sweden which is so sparsely populated still has so many Corona cases. (Hint: We live in towns and cities, more so than most other nations, not in remote farms or forst cabins. That's just for vacation.)


janlaureys9

West-Flanders is more than 2% of the country no ? /s <3


SnooSprouts2040

Better not to have too big urban population. Especially in the times of food crisis.


TheSecondTraitor

low urbanization id the main reason behind most of this country's problems. (after corruption and incompetence ofc.) No sewage pipes, sometimes even no water pipes, no doctor, no services, often no phone signal, one supermarket open from 8 to 12, one post office and communist collective farm that went bankrupt 25 years ago. Average age of locals at least 60+. Basically an infinite sinkhole for government money and eurofunds, that will always need subsidies to just exist, And yet you still hear dumbass populist politicians talking shit how we need to "save" rural areas from dying out.


Lesbihun

Denmark has to have that 0.1% edge over Sweden always lmao


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SignificantLong1297

Yeah Turkey is more developed than Austria and the Balkans


Tricky-Astronaut

Turkey was more developed than non-EU Balkans last year. If it isn't anymore that's on Erdogan.


igcsestudent2

Most of Bosnia are hills, mountains and karsts


kds1988

For becoming more ecological, I’m not sure this is a bad thing.


atred

Not sure what's more ecological, having some few large urban ecological hellholes or having more smaller ecological hellholes?


kds1988

Lol well when we group ourselves in urban centers we and the resources we consume aren’t being constantly transported further and further distances. It allows nature to recover in places we maybe used to populate. Pre-industrialization we didn’t all live in urban centers but we also were not polluting with cars, trucks, trains, planes, and ships. Ideally we should try to leave more and more natural space untouched.


mateox2x

Huh, weird how the least urban parts of Europe were all in Austro-Hungary. (more or less) Not sure if that's just some coincidence or if Austro-Hungary promoted being more rural? Or if all those nations just ended by being less urban by themself.


noreasonban69

where is colorado and texas??? the map is wrong!!! @usahomoffice #call911


nihir82

Why are the Blatics so low compared to their neigbours? I thought that most people lived in the capital compared to the other EU countries.


Tareboss_T

In the case of Romania there are towns/cities without city infrastructure like running water, sewerage, roads etc. and it's still one of the lowest urbanization levels... Can you imagine that?


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GJokaero

Tbf arable doesn't mean livable.


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vinosalentino

Arable land is useless without sufficient water. Syria has larger arable land than Hungary then how about grain production? Hungary is net exporter while Syria suffers famine. And you can compare Sudan with Indonesia, Indonesia has plenty of rains while Sudan not, by Indonesia standard Sudan is already overpopulated.


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vinosalentino

>Again, Spain has comparable arable land and water resources to all the Big 5 European countries The other big 4 European countries have massive semi arid plateau or not? If not, they are not comparable to Spain. By geographical condition Spain is most comparable to inland US state like Nevada, Montana and Idaho, but all these states are barely populated and have very low population density. If Spain has only 10 million inhabitants I would not say overpopulation, but now it is overpopulated without doubt.


vinosalentino

Sweden has more renewable water resource. Renewable water resource per capita of Sweden is 10 times of Spain. If you taken vaporization into consideration, Sweden will be more humid since it is colder and its vaporization is less. Without enough water, arable land is waste land and is useless, without plenty of rains, the drought arable land will turn into desert in the future, just like inland Australia. Australia is a rich country with abundant natural resources and its economy is dependent on raw material exportation for instance iron ore. Its population density is lower than 1/40 of Spain. However, Australia hardly boasts natalist theory and today, it is very difficult for immigrants from third world countries, to emigrate to Australia, because Australia is deliberately controlling its population size. Spain should follow this.


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vinosalentino

Do you taken vaporization into consideration? Australia has higher renewable water resource per capita than Ireland but it suffers drought a lot while Ireland hardly has this problem, because Australia has higher temperature while Ireland is more oceanic like New Zealand. ​ >Abundant natural resources of the mining type make a country wealthy but do not intrinsically make it able to support a large population Yes, but I don't think a country with a large population size but poor is better than Australia, for example Bangladesh and Egypt. Abundant natural resources of Australia is enough for its 25 million habitants, and oil resources of Norway is sufficient to feed its 5 million habitants, that's good. >Australia is empty since it was colonized very recently and only recently became an industrial society. Australia is literally one of the least densely populated countries in the world. That is why Australia has very high quality of life. Abundant natural resources, excellent management and education, low population density. On the contrary, you should compare Egypt, drought, lack of rains, 100 million habitants, food scarcity. >But anyway Spain population grew by 1.6% total from 2010 onwards Since 2000 Spain population has grown by nearly 20% from 39 million to 47 million, if this trend continues Spain will be faced with more severe problem like water scarcity and unemployment. But to tell the truth 39 million is already overpopulated. I've mentioned before, New Zealand is more humid and flat than Spain, it has only 5 million habitants.


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vinosalentino

No, you know little about bizarre geographical condition of Spain. Spain has vast semi arid plateau that occupies 43% of its total land size. The semi arid inland plateau is just like inland Australia, never suitable for densed population. Sweden has no semi arid plateau and all regions of Sweden are humid and have a lot of renewable water resource to exploit. Without plenty of rains, semi arid plateau of Spain will turn into desert in the future just like inland Australia. But population density of Australia is below 1/40 of Spain, and Australia has abundant natural resources to export to feed its population, hence condition will be worse for Spain. If you compare Spain with New Zealand, you'll easily find that New Zealand is more humid and flat than Spain, it has only 5 million population with more than a half of size of Spain, hence Spain is very overpopulated.


Lortekonto

Yes, Sweden have no semi arid plateaus, but maybe there is some other reasons for why the majority of Swedes live in the south-eastern part of the nation. I wonder what it could be.


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Lortekonto

Yes and of course all swedes would like to live in Denmark, because we are the better country, but I think you are missing the obvious reason for why big parts of Sweden have almost no people living there.


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Lortekonto

Ohh my sweet spanish summer child. The way you think in hills, mountains, plains and water is so nice.


pologenerelo

Otra vez tu? De verdad está claro que razonar no es lo tuyo


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>hence Spain is very overpopulated Me, an Algerian, reading this 💀💀


MoravianPrince

> is just like inland Australia If it has gold you can import some.


vinosalentino

Oh I forgot Australia has 14 of the biggest gold mines in the world, especially in its dry WA inland desert. [https://www.ga.gov.au/scientific-topics/minerals/mineral-resources-and-advice/australian-resource-reviews/gold](https://www.ga.gov.au/scientific-topics/minerals/mineral-resources-and-advice/australian-resource-reviews/gold)


pologenerelo

Again?


This-Rooster-9922

Russia 74,8, Bulgaria 75,7, can someone explain to me! How did small country like Bulgaria is having so much population, than Russia. I mean this is ridiculous should we compare sizes of both again to see how they match on territory. The person did this obviously don't understand anything of sizes!


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This-Rooster-9922

We were talking about the ubranization of the population. How is possible Russian have less urban population than Bulgaria?


Advanced-Doughnut-56

The crazy thing about NL, you feel like the place is deserted anyway. It's a strange everyone is hiding feeling.


slopeclimber

This can vary a lot by country. In Poland every large city has tons of truly rural areas. On the edge of metropolital areas there are single family housing colonies, some officially in villages, some in cities, despite no major difference.