France, Germany drop plans for Russia summit after EU outcry
By - Winstonoceaniasmith
now all the foreign ministers of the whole EU should sit down and create a clear common policy with respect to Russia. The best format for such a meeting would be a conclave, just like when new Pope is elected. They will be locked in a room as long as they dont come out with unified result, even if it takes a week.
politican deathmatch. who would win
>even if it takes a week.
You're an optimist if you think it will only take them a week.
Sounds like a win for us if they're locked away ;-)
Why EU should respect or have any thing to do with Russia. We should have strictly commercial relationship with them in the limit of the sanctions that are in place.
Because Putin is not eternal (I hope)
Putin means nothing in this case. Russia was treated like shit by Europeans since the beginning of times. theres joke that every 100 years Europe unites to attack russians and to be beaten by them
Honestly, your remark reads quite bitter. Who hurt you?
Russia is Europe after all, some countries have large russian minorities.
I do not understand what that has to do with EU - russia relations. Those people chose to live in EU and they should be faithful to the new country that adopted them, or they left to lobby for russia? And no country is denying them to travel to russia. And so what if russia is part european.
Ukraine is european, so are the Balkans. EU has talks with them due to that, why shouldn't Russia have them? They are a sizeable minority which requests more rights. Half didn't choose to live here, they were born here. They still have ties with Russia and they can sway governments. You think it won't affect The EU if it has more rouge states? If Russia decides, it can change The fate of some countries quite easily. That is why talks are needed.
There are no balkan countries that are part of EU that have a large russian community that can swing local elections in russia's favor. So the point is moot.
I am talking about everything. Baltics/eastern Europe. Baltics have plenty of Russians. EE is under direct russian influence.
Wow, now that is brainwashed. Estonia will not believe Russia if it says that water is wet. 😂 We are annoyed then central Europe talks about starting discussion with Russia without any changes in it's behaviour.
And Russians asking for more rights is basically "We want to have superior rights like we had during Soviet times"
How is your vaccination of the russian population? Don't they believe kremlin propoganda? We can't get them vaccinated because they want sputnik.
Water is actually not wet; It makes other materials/objects wet. Wetness is the state of a non-liquid when a liquid adhears too, and/or permeates its substance while maintaining chemically distinct structures. So if we say something is wet we mean the liquid is sticking to the object.
Or, it's just you that is under russian influence.
The largest party in Saeima is a russian party, a party in the euro parliament is russian. 30% of the citizens are russians. A large part of tourists and exports/imports are russian. We are next to Russia. A year ago, The people
In Charge of the capital were..... Russians! Seems like you are The ignorant one here.
Can you give me some numbers of Russians in Europe? Latvia's population is under 2mil....
And just like that, you're answering your own rhethorical question with one reason WHY we should have political relations with Russia.
Some sort of political dialogue is necessary. It's good to have a channel for diplomacy even if relations between countries are at rock bottom.
I would agree with need for summit between EU and Russia but definitely not in the way Germany and France envisioned it.
A common EU policy on Russia would raise tensions, drag in countries that didnt need be involved, and in the end not work as germany and eastern europe would ignore it.
It's a bad idea.
honestly surprised they arent completely deaf to criticism
\*grabs tinfoil hat\* Or they wanted this to happen from the start . This way they seem amicable to Russia (but trade and all that ) they can use EE as scapegoat
I'm honestly surprised as well. I'm not from PiS, so claims that "Germans rule the EU" doesn't concern me much but you cannot shake off the feeling, they sometimes would like to. Having that in mind, I was expecting a little outrage, instead Merkel concluded "ok, fail".
Macron on the other hand spewed typical French prejudice, so he can piss off.
She obviously realised her error, but Merkel has always had the basic sense to try not to fan the flames of the whole "Germans rule the EU" thing, so I'm more surprised that she did something so stupid and tone-deaf in the first place. I expected her to be a bit more professional, with all her years of experience.
And as you say, Macron gonna Macron. Nothing surprising there.
What did he say?
He accused Poland and Baltics of being Russophobes, so basically what Putin likes to say every now and then.
They were expecting this.
It's not a win at all for the EE countries imo, these western countries will just do it outside of the confine of the EU now and say they tried to be amicable with the east at first.
They will just talk in private.
Good. There's no such thing as diplomacy with Russia, they only troll and chase their long term goals of destabilising the West and gobbling up their neighbourhood.
Cool. Next time try without announcing it last minute and with strong argument, why exactly it may be a good thing.
Now stop the damn pipeline Merkel
Not a chance, too beneficial for Germany so no way will they stop it.
Germany France Netherlands Belgium UK. People always forget that the other 4 countries have the same share as Germany in the project.
The usual propaganda to make it seems Germany has gone rogue and thinking only to itself while most of Northern Europe is interested into that pipeline.
Germany has become the boogeyman for those people.
Germany definitely has the most to gain from it though. And it’s the easiest way for them to replace coal and meet climate objectives now that they can’t use nuclear long term.
I don't see what they have to gain more than UK to say one. Obviously every member that invested in that has to gain or they wouldn't have put money into it.
Climate objectives are non-binding. None has to meet them but still Germany has 30% wind and 10% solar. Not as good as France with nuclear but better than most of Europe
Too beneficial except they manage without it.
Source: today and the past decades.
Too late for that
Nope. Otherwise we would have to use the Ukrainian pipeline longer.
No. It's about national security to have more independence on energy supply.
Independence by making yourself dependent on a geopolitical adversary? That’s a new concept.
1st: Russia is probably the most reliable supplier. Even during the cold war they were delivering.
2nd: This pipeline is just one of many existing ones. So there is no "more dependency" with NS2 now than it was before despite the shit that people yell all the time.
but people keep telling me that Germany and France control the EU???
This time Poland & the Baltics control the EU. Till the next time, I guess.
I for one welcome my latvian overlords.
I want to be ruled by Estonia! They have the cooler Flag and great Internet!
But latvia is always the "middle child" of the baltics, people can remember lithuania or eatonia but they tend to keep forgetting latvia.
So it's only fair that they become our new god emperors.
> people can remember lithuania or eatonia
clearly not :D
I mean Lithuania was a giant ass commonwealth so at leat it was relevant for few hundred years while Latvia and Estonia (please correct me) weren’t independent until like the fall of Russian empire.
Well said Kent
No its just that every member country can prevent the EU to form Voltron.
Maybe next time don't try to unilaterally speak for the whole of Europe without consulting the rest of Europe.
They consulted the rest of the EU and decided to not do it..
What's the point of trying to lie and gaslight? Everybody can see for a fact what happened. They publicly spoke out about their intentions first, *then* went to an EU meeting to discuss it afterwards, which is a ridiculous and arrogant way round of doing things. They're now having to backtrack, (hence the headlines) and Europe looks even more divided on Russia as a result.
Pretty simple stuff. I don't know what you're struggling to understand here.
They could simply meet with Russia without asking the other members of the council.
Why we should do that? russia is not our friend, they are meddling in our internal politics, financing the extreme political parties and influencing people trough social media..
What a thing to say... because you can't ghost Russia away like an old boyfriend, for example. There needs to be workable alternative.
or organize a summit and dont show up at all. Similar to how several years back putin let merkel wait for hours and brought big dogs with him, knowing she is afraid of them.
> several years back
That was in 2007. 14 years ago.
well, I did not forget about it
I didn't say that you should have. It is just crazy how time flies.
This fucking covid, it felt like yesterday
Redko prejmemo dobrodošlico s slovaki na kitajskem schnellkursu.
It was obviously meant as a /s to current anti-russian xenophobia. Dont worry, love you guys.
Most of the EU views America as a bigger threat to peace and stability.
If anything closer ties between the EU and Russia, and hopefully the US military leaving Europe in general will only help neutralize the Russian threat
Why not? The EU managed to get Germany and France to stop fighting and lead to a long period of peace and prosperity. Not a leap to assume the same will be the same with Russia
>get Germany and France
Because Germany stopped invading neighbouring countries (and because the US were massively contributing to WE security).
The premise that Europe and the US are antagonistic or that Russia is better than the US is both silly and dangerous. The US has its flaws but ultimately it is a democratic society.
Russia is absolutely surrounded by enemies and competitors. If they could be friendly with the EU, and was under no pressure from NATO, it's not hard to think that they'd be less antagonistic to the rest of Europe? Why invade when you can trade?
Because trade is not historically relevant to them. Russia has always been a military power and it sees no reason to change. It is not "surrounded by enemies and competitors", it is surrounded by countries that Russia claims it has liberated and not a single one of those countries sees it that way. On the contrary.
Russia has lost Ukraine, arguably the closest 'relative' possible, claiming it would be able to compromise with the EU for the sake of trade is childish.
Trade isn't historically relevant because Russia has always been under threat from outsiders. Both from the East and from the West. Geopolitics dictate that Russia has to secure herself, thus expansion to natural barriers is their best option
If they're in close relations with the EU and Europe as a whole, and they don't feel threatened by them, there won't be a need for military expansion
>Russia has always been under threat from outsiders. Both from the East and from the West.
Poor, poor Russia!
>Geopolitics dictate that Russia has to secure herself
Geopolitics also dictate that Poland has to secure herself. Estonia. The EU as a whole.
Playing the victim card while being a military power is downright ridiculous.
Yes, Poland has to. They weren't strong enough in the past so they got divided up. Now they don't have to be strong because they are part of the EU.
That's just how it is
You're entire argument is just apologism and assumptions on the behalf of the Russians. Take a deep breath, this may seem quite strange, but different peoples actually want different things for their country. Not every nation and culture on earth shares the same desire of economic growth and democratic liberalism.
Especially nations, such as Russia, that have in living memory been shattered and experienced decades of economic ruin. The Russian people have want to be strong and powerful again. Sure a stronger economy would be great, but the average non reddit-dwelling Russian would rather have the Soviet lands and power.
>Russia is absolutely surrounded by enemies
Because they've made every neighbouring country of theirs an enemy by continuously invading them...
I mean it has been treated as shit by most of Europe since Peter the great went to the grave
>Because they've made every neighbouring country of theirs an enemy by continuously invading them...
Well relations with China and central Asian countries specifically Kazakhstan are really good. I think the only nations that hate Russia for invading them are the Baltic states. Ukraine and Georgia don't hate Russia for *past* invasions. They only hate the country for the *present* invasions.
It has treated other countries as shit for a thousand years...
>Well relations with China [...] are really good.
>I think the only nations that hate Russia for invading them are the Baltic states.
Lol. Your user name really does check out.
>Ukraine and Georgia don't hate Russia for past invasions. They only hate the country for the present invasions.
So we have better memories than Ukraine and Georgia?
>Your user name really does check out
Not even gonna quote the other shit you said.
>Most of the EU views America as a bigger threat to peace and stability.
What a bs. You're spending too much time on r/Europe mate.
What a particularly strange assessment, especially from an "American".
>and hopefully the US military leaving Europe in general will only help neutralize the Russian threat
You mean making Europe Russia's target?
Merky is a bit close to doing a naughty hand signal for my liking.