"Can I use this moon-sized monster as an improvised weapon?"
"......Roll animal handling?"
By - DungeonsandDevils
"Can I use this moon-sized monster as an improvised weapon?"
"......Roll animal handling?"
No. Not can I have the moon monster throw itself. Can *I* USE THE MOON MONSTER AS AN IMPROVISED WEAPON
That will be 1D4 damage
But I'm generous today, you can add your STR mod.
Plus your proficiency bonus.
Me when proficient with “moon sized monsters”
Tavern brawler but the tavern was whole damn solar system
That's just Gurren Lagann
They all laughed at lvl 1 when you took "moon sized monster" proficiency....well who's laughing now?
"Throw another moon at me and I'm gonna lose it"
Thats how i felt fighting rennala in elden ring
Man her summons were annoying, there's a couple fights that after I finish I want more of (Placidusax I shall face you again) she's not one of them lol
Literally just roll away from them and they despawn, then rush back in before she can do another one
Alternatively, just kill her before she can even use one because she's almost literally the easiest boss in the game, not counting a certain somebody towards the end
Huh, never knew about the rolling trick, normally I just bum rush her and let my summons fight it out with her like a Pokemon battle in the corner
You’ll have to grapple it first. Fair warning, the moon monster has +75 STR
Luckily, my 8 Str Chronurgy wizard rolled a d20+75+1, because I'm level 14 and I said so
The cleric using divine intervention “dear god help me succeed the next grapple check”
RULES OF NATURE!
AND THEY RUN WHEN THE SUN COMES UP
Monster? That's my girlfriend! Sort of... It's complicated.
That’s rough buddy
I cast hit a motherfucker with amotherfucker
When your sun-sized monster does the same amount of damage 😔
I remember having a dm few years ago that would rule 1d4 on everything. Doesn't matter if you're throwing pebbles or cars.
Throw a lot of pebbles.
Altough they all probably count as 1 atack
Hitting someone with 1 pebble apparently does as much damage as hitting someone with a bag of pebbles.
Then, I breathe on him.
There's a lot of individual atoms there
Counts as 1 action on 1 target. 1d4.
I mean… throwing a handful of rocks is one attack, but it doesn’t determine how many hits you make
I respect it. Less to keep track of.
“Meteor storm? Wow cool. Roll your d4”
Counts as 1 action against 1 target.
Now I'm just imagining a 4-engined strategic bomber legit crashing into a DnD adventuring party.
So thanks, I guess.
I've hit mine with trains.
Mine hit a dragon with an airship once. Artificer pilot got sick of the dragon ripping the ship to pieces, so she dive bombed it
LOL. My halfling rogue was riding on an airship flying above an allied sea ship. Airship was powered by magic green. Kraken attacked ship. Ship managed to pull ahead of the kraken with some creative spellcasting. Rogue removes green from it's emplacement. Dead kraken
All fun and games until the monk suplexes the train
I've played enough Final Fantasy to see where this is going
Only after the suplex.
YES, YES! SPLIT IT WIDE OPEN!
RULES OF NATURE
That sounds like both fun, and games.
\*blinks\* Well, I guess if everyone consents enthusiastically it's ok. Not what I'd do in my game but times change I guess.
Look, that's what happens when you fight a magic user that specializes in portals and space folding bullshit near a rail station.
The barbarian looking into the eyes of the reconnaissance drone that the president is looking through “ that all you got fancy man?”
They mean Zariels airship, but yours is hilarious and I like it
The warcrimes are worse and the bayonets stay on
24d10, 132 average damage seems a tad low for that last one.
Just means the average barbarian takes some extra chewing, seems about right to me 😂
God damnit! I got ANOTHER adventurer stuck in my teeth! ETHEL! ETHEL! Where the hell is that floss of entanglement?
“There’s an adventurer in my teeth, could you get it out for me? *That fkn teamwork!*” 🎶
24D10 ... every 6 seconds
Big teeth = bigger space between for food to get caught. You ever had a corn kernel in your teeth? That’s the halfling bard you had for dinner
If they're wearing full plate it's an unpopped kernel. =D
If you've got that many hit points then you're too powerful/cool/buff to be killed simply by something as pedestrian as a falling moon
Right? A moon-sized monster would end all life on Earth just by being too close to the planet.
Imagine being hit by fortress for 18 damage
You just smash through a window as it lands near you.
Turns out it was a sand castle.
It's like in cartoons when you manage to find a window in a falling structure. Think of Aladdin. The 18 is from the glass pane smashing over your head, but you're otherwise unharmed.
I mean.. A commoner has 4 hp
You know in my group our DM has a rule for "pun damage" so if you say an awful pun you take 1d4 damage inexplicably. Just thinking about it now if a commoner ends up saying a pun they are dancing with death every time.
Me, a moon Druid, flies up with magic above an enemy's head. An oathbreaker on horseback.
My ally sorcerer casts enlarge on me when I'm 60ft above the paladin's head.
I turn into an enlarged elephant and fall on the Paladin's head. DM asks me to roll 6d12 damage.
I roll 12. The horse doesn't even die. I take 6d6 fall damage and am hurt more than the Paladin.
The sorcerer and I who planned this out for an hour cry ourselves to sleep later that day.
Optional rule with falling damage, if you land on a creature, you take half damage and they take the other half. Did this when my wizard decided to do this, except he chose to be a whale and it was a squad of goblins
I guess it could be good luck, “many rocks hit around you, only trapping your leg in the rubble”
It doesn’t take much to figure out the 1d4 is for melee improv
A barstool, a shard of glass, the buckle end of a belt, a garden hoe, etc
Using the environmental elements of a battle map is always a great idea, but nobody is going to pick up a bolt of lightning and try and use it like a sword
You never know when you come upon a moon-sized creature that you use to hit the bartender with, instead of the bottle beside you.
1. It literally say in the rules an improvised weapon has a range of 20/60 ft.
2. Are you just going to ignore Zeus and Thor?
I’d say Z and T are literally proficient in lightning bolts, no need to improvise
I believe both only have weapons to call upon lightning and not actually wield it in the myths, so they basically have at will call lightning and lightning bolt, also thunderous smite for Thor
tbf, both of the examples that got popular here probably would deal 1d4 damage if we account for how physics work
The grenade would do 1d4?
Just enough to possibly kill but more likely heavily injure the average 4hp person standing near it? Sounds about right for an overpressured vessel.
Yeah, most likely a seam in the metal would split and some hot steam would be expelled, although there’s a chance no detonation occurs at all (because steel’s pretty good at handling high pressures)
You mean the metal bottle rocket? Grenades have explosives in them.
making water and metal enough to cause burns =/= a grenade capable of killing someone. people would die every time the stove is turned on if this was the case.
Isnt this the ruling for improvising trap and environmental damage doe?
It is intended for monsters and environmental effects yes. That's why all of the examples on the table are environmental. PC improvised weapons do 1d4 damage unless they resemble an already established weapon in which case you can use the same stats.
Do are we all just going to totally ignore that one of these improvised *weapons* while the other is improvised *damage?*
Call me crazy, but I don't think wacking someone with a frying pan is worth the second highest damage die.
Now, I do think there should be tiers of improvised damage based on the items weight, with the Tavern Brawler maybe increasing the damage dealt by a tier. However, it's the sort of thing that comes up so rarely that I don't think it's necessary and if you feel you need it, it's very easy to just pick a damage die.
honestly depending on the item i would rule an improvised weapon as the weapon its closest to. smacking someone with the pommel of your sword? yeah, d4+str bludgeoning. wrapping some leather around some sort of sharp, broken blade to protect your hand? i could see it as a shortsword.
It even says in the PHB that if an improvised weapon resembles an actual weapon then you should just use that weapons stats. It only specifies that improvised weapons deal 1d4 damage if they don't resemble any other weapons, or if you use a ranged weapon to make a melee attack or throw a weapon without the thrown property.
My homebrew rule is that using a weapon for damage that it isn't made for (that it can still logically do) is a one damage die lower (d8 > d6 > d4 etc.) The same rule applies for similar improvised weapons.
Yeah, most of those things in the improvised damage examples aren’t even possible to handle in the hands, how is submerging someone in acid a weapon attack?
Plus, your idea of adapting improvised weapons as their closest similar actual weapon is even an actual rule written in the book.
I know it’s just a meme but OP didn’t use the correct response for “improvised weapons deal only 1d4 damage”, you did.
People who bitch that a frying pan only does 1d4 damage should check how much damage purpose build bludgeoning weapons like a club or a light hammer do. Might even be a bit generous if you ask me.
So a barbarian with some regeneration can survive indefinitely inside a Star Wars, trash compactor
Or any trash compactor, for that matter
I don't see how the two ideas are comparable--one is improvised weapons (1d4 RAW), and the other is a table of examples for how the DM can improvise damage for certain categories of situations.
The table isn't even RAW: it's just examples, not rules.
"hit by a falling bookcase" is absolutely something someone could cause with their attach (pushing it over) and some DM's would absolutely rule 1d4.
>The table isn't even RAW: it's just examples, not rules.
I fail to see the distinction.
Frankly I have been hit by pushed over bookcase and while it is far from comfortable (and I do not recommend it) I would pick it anytime compared to being hit with a leg from pub chair by a mad muscular tribesman who I just accidentaly insulted.
But it was bookcase roughly my high and I was standing next to it. Put the bookcase on a next floor while me standing at it's impact zone and I might find myself prefering the angry tribesman procedure.
Improvised weapons are 1d4 + Str, which is often better than 1d10 anyway.
I once had my dm make a player roll 20d20 become jumped into a tarrascue's mouth and tried to get swallowed.
"Local angry barbarian gets hit by crashing flying fortress, takes 9 bludgeoning damage."
Role playing = OP
'my sword is a whirling steel bade therefore i do 10d10 damage with each attack'
Struck by lightning = 2d10
Lightning Bolt spell = 8d6
There seems to be some discrepancies here.
This assumes normal lighting, not magically enhanced and directed lightning that can impale things, a better example would be Call Lightning which is 3d10
Ah yes, my favorite improvised weapon: a vortex of fire
I’m a fan of a Flying Fortress to be honest, but I see the appeal.
I cast disguise self to look like my enemy's father.
"Son, when are you going to get your life together, become a doctor and give me a grandson?"
4d10 e-MO-tional DA-mage!
Improvising damage examples are completely separate from Improvised Weapons, but nice try.
But Improvised weapons are already good. "For example, a table leg is akin to a club. At the GM’s option, a character proficient with a weapon can use a similar object as if it were that weapon and use his or her Proficiency bonus"
It's only 1d4 damage if the DM rules the object doesn't bear a close enough resemblance to any simple or martial weapon.
Show me where I implied the table was about improvised weapons 😂
Do...Do they know how massive the moon is?
THE moon is big. A moon can be much, much smaller.
They do. 24d10 is a lot of damage and it's not like you only take it once. On average, this straight up kills a 6th level Paladin, which is a ridiculous power level considering a DnD commoner outperforms most real-world people physically. Not to mention if this "only" knocks you unconcious you're probably still screwed and you're unlikely to take chewing damage only once.
Do you know How massive is 132 average damage ? Its absolutely Fine for lv 20 characters survive that.
I'm fairly certain a lvl 20 wizard with -3con could survive that if he casts like one low-level spell beforehand which he almost certainly will
... okay ? Still a lv 20 character. It's exactly what i said (But no. A wizard with -3 con would gain 1 hp per level taking average. Thats 23 HP... At level 20)
at some point, the size becomes a limit in and of itself. There's only so much damage I can bring to bear against, say, a chia seed, and if I were even bigger, I feel like that wouldn't make my bite do a whole lot more damage.
You might even do less than full damage, given the difficulty of keeping it between your teeth.
Do... do you know, that there are many moons of varied sizes, as small as a slightly bigger asteroid?
Yeah, but if someone says moon-sized you probably expect it to be the size of our moon. Like when someone says dog-sized you don't expect a chihuahua or cat-sized and it's a day-old kitten. A satelite is an artificial moon, but I don't know any sane person that would call it moon-sized
"That's no moon. It's a space station"...
"How big can a moon be? 1000m?"
Improvised weapons also take on the weapon stats of a weapon if they resemble or can be functionally used as that weapon. Which every DM I've ever met seems to forget about.
Player's assumption what can resemble a proper weapon is also a factor tho. I would say this is even between DM and players.
DMs want to ease their life by qualifying everything as 1D4 unless it is a proper weapon and to be honest there is a good chance the fight is balanced around the fact PCs are going to use IW. **But** a good improvisation from a PC should never be turned down just because it does not fit DM's envision of the situation or DM wrote already wrote 1d4 into is notes.
On the other side of the barricade players keep assuming that the half the barstool they struggle to not hurt themselves equals to an expensive weapon done by trained weaponsmith and is worth of small fortune and thus should hit for 2d6, idealy +1 because there are "dangerous splinters".
A healthy compromise is where it should end. And after all 1d4 equals a dagger.
Related question - are there any penalties for using "long" weapons in unfitting situation (longsword in a fight in crowded messy pub) or bonuses for using proper weapons most suitable for that (cub, dagger)?
Easy enough for me to draw the line because I practice HEMA and other martial arts, so I'm pretty comfortable and familiar with making those judgements in the fly for even complex things.
The thing is, regarding your related questions, is that there aren't any probably *shouldn't* be unless you're running that kind of gritty game. Just adds another layer of complication and makes something unnecessarily complex. Even a greatsword can be used in tight, compact fighting quarters if you utilize half-swording. A smaller weapon would be more favorable, but it's worth mentioning players are still highly skilled warriors expected to be able to take all this into account and adapt their fighting as necessary, even if the players themselves are clueless
Can we talk about how a prick from a poison needle is 1d10, but a dagger is 1d6?
"poison". A poisoned dagger will do far more
God imagine if any poisoned weapon just dealt an extra 1d10 poison damage
Posts like this should include a source and page number
What is that chart from? I'm not questioning its validity, I'd just like to know
The official DM guide.
Makes sense, thats the 1 core rulebook i dont have
Happen to have the page?
DMG pg 249 the section is titled "Improvising Damage" and isn't really intended to be used by PCs but if they do something cool that you allow this table can be useful.
Dungeon Master’s Guide
Can't meme if you read the rulesl... think about it.
This is dope! I had no idea it existed and it is going to be very helpful. Which book is this in? (DMG? Or PHB?)
I glanced over image and i saw
Burned by coalas
Now I can't unsee this, and neither will my players in few sessions
Thank you very much. My dyslexia didn’t catch that one, but my players will later on today.
**EDIT: Bruh ignore me I'm just salty and whining, im gonna keep it up though cause quickly deleting it seems scummy**
[Ok so in hindsight this is ranty af and it's not aimed at OP or anything, just like venting about this pattern of memes overall]
Please, for the love of god, can we stop this whole "trying to boost damage is creative" trend?
Like, I get it. Making custom weapons is cool, and I take **zero issue** with spending *time and effort* in-game and working with your DM to create a cool custom item.
In fact, I think *most games* should do this! And most already do, honestly.
But this **obviously** shouldn't extend to just cobbling together some shit, begging the DM to increase your damage output, and claiming that your magnificent creativity has been wrongly trampled upon when your DM says no.
**There's a weapons table for a reason, guys.**
The game is easier for the DM, and frankly easier for everyone to follow, when you don't have to negotiate every tiny detail for every action. You wanna whack someone with a half broken totem pole? Sure! That's 1d4 damage but—wait—actually, that resembles a great club, so it can do 1d8 damage instead! Sure, this isn't going to be *perfect* for every scenario, **but that doesn't mean we have to actually try and define a number for literally every scenario, guys.**
Call me crazy, but I quite *like* the fact that the rules don't say:
>Make sure to ask your DM the precise damage output of every object that they've foolishly placed in your general vicinity. Haggle your hearts out lads.
Making cool custom shit is meant to reward time and effort with a mechanical benefit, which sure, can be a nice new instrument that ups your damage a little. But most of the discussion I've seen on this basically revolves around why x character should be able to just spend a short amount of time creating bombs, big strong weapons, etc.
I mean fuck it, why even bother with starting equipment? Maybe you guys should start in a tavern and see how quickly you can turn a keg into an oversized flail that should absolutely do 2d8 bludgeoning damage to reward your creativity /s
I don't know, maybe I've just seen the worst of it, and maybe in reality most people are being reasonable, but do you all maybe just wanna play the game? I mean generally when people talk about being creative, it's about clever plans, cool combat flourishes, neat tactics, or whatever. "This brand-new wooden rail-gun I just fashioned should do at least a *little* bit more damage than the crossbow I started with, right?" is maybe like the least creative way you could engage with the game.
Happy Cake Day. You should top your dessert with salted caramel ice cream. (Jk)
Oh, and +1 on the rant.
I generally just pick what seems appropriate for the type of attack. Throwing a rock sure that's a D4. Dropping a large rock from the ceiling onto somebody well that's a bit more and depends on the situation.
Submerged in lava?
What is this, minecraft?
You don't just eat a goldplated piece of fruit and call it a day :/
“Being hit by a crashing flying fortress”
Excuse me what the actual fuck
My ranger nearly TPK'd our level 2 party because she lit a torch in a sewer full of noxious (and apparently flammable) fumes.
To be fair, she'd lived in a forest her whole life and never run into flammable, noxious fumes. Also, I the player was very dumb and did not think about it :) our DM felt very bad, but we all lived!
I was waiting for someone to post this lol
Why yes, I am lazy.
The amount of people crying about what’s raw yet have only read the players handbook astounds me
The improvised dmg has some really interesting and specific scenarios. Wonder how the Party found a fire vortex.
Bold of you to assume anyone on this sub reads the rules
The only characters capable of surviving the higher ones are already 'Legendary Heroes', the main-character plot-armour is factored in I think. Plus anything the character can't survive doesn't need a roll right? "Rocks Fall, you die"
Gotta love the DnD list of random things you might encounter and survive having "submerged in lava" be only halfway down.
\*laughs in Pugilist*
Yes it's homebrew, but it's also really fun
The fact that being struck by lightning is the second lowest scares me a little.
24 falling bookshelves could square up against a tarrasque
*sticks head into library, dies*
Chars with 241hp getting crushed by Galactus foot
Lava stream equals ten bookcases, check.
Many if not most of the so called "creative improvised weapon style ideas" players have are just things that should be narrative fluff provided while mechanically just casting a regular spell.
Don't try to actually make some sorta magic-y molotov cocktail, just cast fireball and say it's a cocktail.
Don't try to pull heat metal shenanigans on a object to lauch a projectile with a makeshift gun, just cast catapult and say you use a makeshift gun.
Don't put the dm and your table through the pointless shenanigan of trying to contrive outcomes through "mechanics" there are no rules for, just apply narrative to the spells that are already in the rules. Make your own, and everyone elses lives easier.
Half of these sound like a magic school bus trip
People also forget that the often cited d4 for improvised weapons is for improvised weapons that aren't similar to existing weapons. The phb says if someone uses say, a broom, you'd use the stats for a quarterstaff or what have you.
Wait, I've been rolling d6 for burning oil but I could be using a 2d10?
"Every Rick has a vat! Now take *burp 4d10 acid damage, Morty, you fucking moron."
Also 1d4 can be really mean, as bard
This could backfire. Next time the DM says "you get hit by falling rocks and all die", someone will say "Ummm actually, that is only 10d10 damage, and with Evasion, the Resistance spell and my resistance to bludgeoning damage, I survive max damage"
“Did I say falling rocks? I meant moon rocks. You just got crushed by the moon.”
"Well, that's only 24d10,so I can still survive with Orcish Resilience and my levels in zealot barbarian from when I joined a tribe 3 years ago"
“…twice, there’s two moons, and the second one is full of lava and acid.”
That's the true TPK strat
Majora’s Mask knew what was up; players dawdling around too much? Just drop a moon on ‘em.
So true. Majora's Mask based DnD campaign, anyone?
Reminds me of one of my earlier attempts at being a DM back in 3.5. Party was in a factory of some kind and one of the walls had piles of coal along it. One player who had only ever played a single session prior succeeded on a bull rush knocking an enemy onto the pile of coal and said "I'd like to throw my torch on the pile". Had to give him some d6's of fire damage for that level of creativity.
Recently I dropped the corner of a building on some enemies. My DM decided to rule that they took the falling damage of the building and had to extricate themselves from the rubble, which also separated them from the fight so we could deal with them separately from the rest of the enemies. I felt very rewarded for my creativity.
OP DM moment.
It’s weird that being burned by coals is 3 damage die larger than being stabbed with a dagger
I've talked to or played in games with DMs who have never read the rules, they just listened to a few podcasts and occasionally google things or make them up. It's wild to me. Very rarely is such a game very good, in my experience.
I have thrown the moon at my players, AMA
Wow what a useful table they should put on some sort of easy reference guide for the DM...wait a minute
I suddenly understand why a blowgun is a martial weapon
reminds me of the time we found the magical source keeping a castle floating in the sky of an evil ursurper we were gonna kill anyway.
The power source being a dragon that was using its dragon breath to power the castle.
My solution was to set the dragon free and just drop the fucking castle. My escape plan was to have the druid wildshape into something that could carry those of us that couldn't fly.
Instead of having to fight the ursurper. Unfortunately the party rejected the idea because what about the servants and stuff. I proposed we just get them to evacuate by making shit up. I was actually very insistant because my character is a Warlock who made a pact with an ancient dragon so it was both in his and his patron's interest to free this dragon. The party knew my character was going to free the dragon no matter what, so the party did have to come up with a solution.
THe idea was rejected but a compromise was made to find an alternative power source for the floating castle so the dragon could be set free without the castle falling.
Me: *picking poision needles in forest*
Party: *Ummm what you got there?*
Me: *A suprise tool that will help us later*
I have a player who doesn't carry weapons and wants to be able to just grab something art random. So he rolls a d12 and I pick the corresponding weapon stats and give then describe what he picked up
I made a ridiculous character using a now waaay old UA; a Goliath Bearbarian/Kensei with the Brawny feat, for super grappling. And his Kensei weapons were improvised weapons, so he could hit a motherfucker with another motherfucker, with proficiency.
He’s amazing. Been a bit rough when I didn’t have stuff handy to yeet, and was fighting a large plant monster thing that was rooted, but always fun. And I did get to do a Jujitsu dead-tree drop throw on an awakened tree a different time, and almost kill it with one throw, so that was dope. Also stole a giant-ass spear from a giant salamander dude, and took it with me into a dungeon.
**PHB, Page 147**
*In many cases, an improvised weapon is similar to an actual weapon and can be treated as such. For example, a table leg is akin to a club. At the DM's option, a character proficient with a weapon can use a similar object as if it were that weapon and use his or her proficiency bonus.*
*An object that bears no resemblance to a weapon deals 1d4 damage (the DM assigns a damage type appropriate to the object).*
Yeah so...it's 1d4 in cases of the least likely weapons, otherwise it is conceivably any standard weapon profile, depending on what's being used.
I once combined pepper spray with a lighter to make an improvised flamethrower. It was wild.
And it wasn’t even dnd, true barbarian
I better get at least a 2d12 if i decide to hit a mother fucker with another mother fucker
Once played a one shot and my character fell into lava. Took 18d10 damage and ended up a negative number, but was still “alive”. His flesh all melted off but the bones were strangely immune to damage, but totally able to feel pain.
That’s when the players realized something was going on with this oneshot…
It's not even RAW. RAW improvised weapons do 1d4 damage. This table is for monsters and environmental hazards and is also just a table with suggestions and isn't actually hard set numbers. This table is just saying if someone is submerged in lava somewhere around 18d10 is appropriate but that doesn't mean you have to use 18d10.
I love how much this sub misinterprets rules and then acts like what they found is RAW and unknown to people.
Actually if you want to be pedantic, improvised weapons do the damage die of the weapon they resemble, and 1d4 only if it doesn’t resemble any weapon.
That is correct. When people quote the 1d4 it's to the obsurd stuff half of the sub is trying to do that doesn't resemble any weapon which is why you hear the 1d4 so often. Also it's literally the number you used in your own post. Glad you agree that you aren't using RAW in your post that you titled and tagged as RAW though.
You’re just pointing out that the table isn’t about improvised weapons, I never said it was 🤷♂️
You telling me PCs can’t push over bookcases?
Dang you switched up to gaslighting and strawmanning real quick when it's pointed out that you were wrong.
… no? You’re just misinterpreting the post and being weirdly aggressive about it 😂
yeah, the 1d4 improvised is for like, grabbing a ladle and smacking someone with it - an improvised *weapon*.
pouring molten lead on someone a la hunchback of notre dame isn't a weapon in the sense of a weapon item that you can equip to your character. it's manipulating the environment.
Yes misreading table titles is OP. This is about improvising amounts of damage, not improvised weapon damage. But hey, this is a game where lazy writing encourages lazy reading.
I personally love the idea of my 5E players one-shotting my BBEG with improvised volcano. The faster we are done with bad games and switch completely to Pathfinder 2e the better.