T O P

The capitalist economy is in shambles

The capitalist economy is in shambles

sirblastalot

That's why the only profitable profession is going on dangerous adventures! High turnover.


RedJudas

I recall reading a post about how adventuring would be absolutely devastating to local economies because it’s all looters.


sirblastalot

Well, it's important to remember that, at least in the stereotypical DnD setting, there isn't really an *economy* the way we think about it. You can come back from the dungeon with a giant pile of gold but you can't just buy a yacht assembled all over the world, for instance. You can buy out the whole village marketplace but that's mostly produce and livestock and some tools, no one is going to sell you the shirt of their back or produce some fantastic luxury they were hanging on to.


Thaemir

Well, there is an economy. Just not one based around mercantile exchange. It's an agricultural economy, with it's limitations. And inflation has always been a thing for all of history, so a bunch of adventurers injecting tons of gold in a region would absolutely destroy their economy.


Spaceman1stClass

's valuation of gold. People would still need to trade for food and necessities and, while a year's salary in gold might suddenly be worthless when the dragon's trove avalanches down the mountain and over half your neighbors, you, being a dirty peasant, didn't really have any savings anyway. The only real change is how much easier magic is once 25000 gp of diamond is *any* diamond.


Thaemir

It would affect the economy nevertheless, in which amount of gold or silver your work is valued. But I agree that probably it wouldn't be too hard in a purely (or at least mainly) barter community


dragon-storyteller

The poorest peasantry who paid in commodities, sure. Good luck to the smallholders and the tradesmen. "What do you mean a single short-sword worth of steel is now worth 1000 gp, how am I supposed to get materials or sell any of my weapons and tools at that price?"


Spaceman1stClass

1000 gp which you can get for 50 potatoes or an afternoon of plumbing. Also, all that cheap gold is absolutely superb for making silverware. Quality of life improvements for everyone.


mootmahsn

And we're back to horny bard.


Spaceman1stClass

Leave me, my potatoes, and my golden silverware alone.


nmemate

I really like this take on how inflation saves lives


MereInterest

> so a bunch of adventurers injecting tons of gold in a region would absolutely destroy their economy. As a historical example of this, look at Mansa Musa's hajj. Part of his goal was to put his empire on the map, and to establish to the known world that his country was worth paying attention to and worth trading with. Basically, flaunting his wealth in such a way that he establishes himself. His caravan included 80 camels, each carrying an estimated 50-300 pounds, specifically to carry gold dust to give to beggars along the way. So, somewhere between 40k and 240k gp, in D&D terms, entirely to show off how rich he is. This ended up absolutely crashing the gold market, leaving the economy in shambles all along his route. It was so bad that along his return trip, he deliberately bought gold at inflated prices in order to undo some of the economic damage. Definitely a fun way to play the aftermath of the "party tipping 5 gp on a 2 cp bill". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mansa_Musa


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risisas

I mean, when do you actually use the gold after buying full plate armor? It becomes mostly worthless


AuAndre

Give them a manual of golem.


risisas

I like the idea of giving some other kinds of gains from Mony, like if thee party's United resources is above X they can "spend" it to gain an asi, (can only be done once) than if they gather double of that, they gain the first subclass ability from another subclass, than if they double that they gain a level or something like that, the rewards are very flexible. That and putting magic items shop, it also gives strategy "we want a flamethongue for the fighter and an elven Cape for the rogue or a party whide increase in something"


Neato

Paying for services. Building buildings. Magic services. If your DM does it, paying for creating magic items. If it was grittier, paying for all the people you'd need to employ. For instance, knights needed squires and such.


JamesL1002

diamonds for revival. Too much money? Nay, not enough dying!


sirblastalot

A couple of my campaigns have had big projects requiring lots of money as the overarching campaign goal. I ran a sandbox game that ended up with the players deciding to sink lots of money into building a castle, and I'm currently running one where the players are wanted pirates and are trying to make fuck-you money and just be so stinking rich they'll never be held accountable for their crimes.


sirblastalot

The operative phrase being "the way we think about it." It's a bunch of small feudal independant microeconomies with a lot of barter, as opposed to our globalized and largely speculative digital economy. Not just an agricultural economy, but an intensely local one; most people and goods don't travel more than a few miles from home, and if it's not produced in that radius, you very likely can't get it.


DMPark

This. Without the means of quickly transporting people and goods to where you want them when you need them, fast propagation of information and prices, as well as large scale specialization for businesses that can service large areas, you're basically dealing with a series of interdependent micronations. imho if you could employ a bunch of people to utilize spells like sending and teleportation, that's where the real money is. Logistics in a world where the furthest most people travel is 25 miles from their own home will always make a better margin than production by virtue of arbitrage.


usgrant7977

Yes and no. Major cities would be able to cater to a powerful groups desires. With a few castings of Wall of Stone a wizard could create a large castle in a few hours.


sirblastalot

This is true, but they still won't be anything like the world-spanning luxury we have now. No matter how much money you have, you're never starting SpaceX or Blue Origin (in the traditional setting anyway, ask me about my peasant-railgun powered lightspeed spacecraft) Or buying and selling and speculating and making complex investment vehicles out of stock in megacorporations or something like that.


dudius7

Reminds me of the first 3 minutes of [Dungeon Dynamite](https://youtu.be/oEmM_zKuTD0)


Telwardamus

This is presented as a legitimate problem in Shadowrun, as dwarves and elves, with their longer lifespans than humans, orks, or trolls, are going to wind up sitting up on the top of the totem pole for a very long time, occupying positions that ordinarily humans would eventually retire out of.


Zenketski

Now there is a game that was severely underrated for its entire run on the 360. That game was so fucking good. I found out from my ex that it was a pen and paper game now I just need to find some people to play with, and also learn how to play the game


Da_GentleShark

Aparently shadowrun has a good bunch of problems. Its systems have always been quite flawed making it so you have to houserule a lot. This is very sad seeing as it is one of the possibly best cyberpunk rpg´s but alass the companies cant get their things straight...


Direwolf202

I am entirely unapologetic about taking the setting and running it with pathfinder+homebrew — it was a lot more fun than trying to run the system that you’re supposed to use.


Da_GentleShark

I dont know pathfinder really, maybe I shpuld look it up. I always thought that gunfighting doesn´t really fit with medieval fighting because of their different focus. I would personally prefer using cyberpunk and simply giving that a magic system. Or just looking into other alternatives.


Direwolf202

The reason I used pathfinder is that all of the rules are free (and I mean *all of them*, not just the core rule book) Back then I didn’t have any DnD stuff beyond the core rules and a DMG — which is enough technically, but a lot of stuff is missing.


Rum_N_Napalm

Can confirm. Setting is A++++, rules have issues. Some builds are very powerful compared to others, hacking is a mess (creates what is termed the pizza dungeon problem. The hacker goes through his dungeon, while the rest of the team might as well call themselves a pizza)


Saikotsu

I wish you success in this endeavor. I played the old Sega Genesis game and was amazed when I found out it was a tabletop game like D&D. I've wanted to play with my group ever since but it's not materialized yet.


existential_prices

Still the best Shadowrun game to date, and I've played all the recent ones.


discourse_is_dead

Its a great game but finding players and a GM is hard. I used to play it back in Hs in the late late 90s. 2E was really good. 5E had some issues, and i hear 6E is worse.. but its a good system to house rule some of the flaws.


dragon-storyteller

We tried to play Shadowrun with my old group, and quickly found out the way to do it would be to take the amazing setting and just use a simpler game's system. The rules are a real mess, which is a shame because there's a lot of cool stuff hidden in there.


Sam_Hunter01

Small correction, the pen and paper game existed long before the video game. The first edition was created in the 80s or something.


Bestboii

Aren't dragons in Shadowrun CEOs because they have the time and power to make companies


SCP-3388

I've always thought that in a modern-day setting dragons would be the ultra wealthy. Hoarding wealth and resources while using unethical means to get more and more? That's dragons in a nutshell.


Neato

They definitely are. Just like how vampires are the monster equivalent to wealthy or nobility.


Rum_N_Napalm

Only a handful of them, most of them are busy trying to save the world or expand their influence in dragon society. There even was a dragon who became president of the USA once… well actually UCAS, because Canada and the US always gotta fuse in dystopian cyberpunk worlds. Loftwyr is the most famous as CEO of what was a long time the biggest megacorp, Saeder-Krup


Pkrudeboy

Sure, the elves and dwarves will get the upper management positions, but they’re not the ones you really have to worry about. It’s the dragons. “The Saeder-Krupp security forces are pepper spraying the striking workers. What’s that? They seem to have switched over to fire hoses connected to tankers filled with ketchup! It looks like Lofwyr has decided to end this strike personally!”


ralanr

Dragons are generally so rare and so high up that if you have to worry about them you’re doing pretty well off yourself.


0Frames

Came here to say this, because the problem doesnt fit into a feudal setting like d&d. SR has a whole bunch of problems, but the dystopian race and class struggles always intrigued me. My group still plays 3e occasionally.


lightningbenny

"Oh, my resume says 2 years? That's a typo, it's supposed to say 202 years. What do you mean, I'm a human? I used to be an elf, but I got polymorphed into a human a few years back. Yeah, major bummer. So, how about that role?"


Freethecrafts

Reincarnated into a human. I’m just like you, elf friend…sticks, twigs, leaves…oh my, how much do we love leaves.


Lom1111234

I’m sure the high elves definitely love them some leaves


anothernaturalone

The halfling's leaf has slowed your mind.


Petragor07

Introducing Elf Callum!


T1B2V3

"All me best mates are trees" lol


Microwavable_Potato

*That Time I got Reincarnated as a Human*


stomponator

\[squinting eyes\] "Get. Out. Now. Before I call the treants."


Bruc3w4yn3

Treants are always truant: by the time they get to the office their shift is over.


GaGAudio

The “reincarnated” Dwarf: Did someone say ROCK AND STONE!?


Freethecrafts

Let me guess, a few hundred years of forge work history as a ten year old halfling?


Just__Let__Go

I used to be an elf like you, until I took an arrow to the knee.


Spaceman1stClass

Wait a minute! Why are people turning into liches when they can polymorph into a longer lived species? Wouldn't polymorphing a 2 century old elf into a human kill him instantly from old age?


lightningbenny

If I recall, with true polymorph the caster would be able to dictate the age of the form that the target of the spell would assume. So if you really wanted, theoretically, you could true polymorph into a younger version of yourself whenever you got old and frail, and you'd be immune to death by old age. Liches also have the whole phylactery situation, so they can't exactly die without that bring destroyed, so thats a benefit. Also, True Polymorphing yourself once every few centuries isn't as evil (and flavoursome from a DM perspective), as the process to becoming a lich, maintaining a lich's life force, and the general aesthetic of a lich.


Muffalo_Herder

Liches don't exist because people are afraid of growing old, that's some novice shit you have figured out by the time you hit 4th tier. Liches don't want to die, at all, from anything. So they make a phylactery and hide it away in a demiplane.


Spaceman1stClass

Man, just use a wish every other day to make clones. And awaken trees to guard them on the off days. Way easier than lichdom, and it's free to any level 20 character.


Ws6fiend

Nothing in polymorph says you live the life span of the creature you turn into. My interpretation of this would be you age at the normal rate of your original race. You are a young human wizard polymorphed into a dragon. You are going to age rapidly. High elf aged into a dog. You are going to live forever. However this does change when you bring reincarnation up. This spell, says it creates a new body of which your character is now the race of. This means technically you could find someone who's an extremely old human wizard, and then reincarnate them and they come back as a high elf. They could teach you everything you need to know about magic.


Spaceman1stClass

Wait... a rapidly aging dragon? That's even worse.


Ws6fiend

Not really. I'm imagining it like a puppy that gets really big really fast. He has no idea how to control himself. But because he's so big everyone's going to think he's a threat and just attack him on sight.


Kansai_Moth

You could just use *Clone* and keep your race as is. For a human, clone puts you back at age 22ish, and you could do it once every 5 years if you were super vain about aging.


Spaceman1stClass

You can set clone to whatever age you want, as long as it's younger.


Kansai_Moth

Oh, you're right. I thought clone only brought you back to youthful age. Yeah you can Clone yourself all the way back to baby if you wanted.


Spaceman1stClass

[All the way to zero](https://youtu.be/t0D-KLCzz5A?t=6)


RealHornblower

The general is a 500 year old elf. The only strategy he knows is cavalry charge. He refuses to adapt to the mass adoption of longbows and pikes. He loses every battle but doesn't want to retire and can't be replaced because no one has nearly as much experience as him. The war will never end.


Emptypiro

Funny that an elf wouldn't switch to longbow since they know how to use them culturally


Hojie_Kadenth

He's the bad bad man that wrecked all those longbow users with his calvary charges and HE KNOWS CALVARY CHARGES WORK DANGIT!


djseifer

"Sir, the humans have developed artillery. You can't keep ordering the cavalry to charge. For Vandria's sake, we only have three horses left."


KuraiBaka

"Just draft the Druids then."


Saiyan-solar

in my HB world there is currently a long waging war between an elven led nation and a human supremist empire. the elves could easily win the war if they adapted and pressed the matter but they are so stuck on old traditions that they have given the humans time to bridge the massive gap in ability with better technology and stratagies (in canon the humans also ended up getting help of one of the brightest minds in my world, although his intentions are unclear of why he joined the human side as of now)


Royal_Bitch_Pudding

Cause he sees a suit of armor around the world.


Saiyan-solar

He's definity not a Tony stark in the fact that he does what he thinks is best for the world, he serves himself first and foremost


Royal_Bitch_Pudding

A suit of armor around the world would have him in charge de facto, would it not?


Saiyan-solar

I tried to make him a bit more complex of a character than just world domination. He's an ancient human that has kept himself reincarnated over and over again from a previously super advanced civilization that was destroyed by the gods. One of his main goals is to enact revenge but he has another part of him that is obsessed with the gathering of knowledge, to the point he wants to be present for every major discovery and continue amassing knowledge. He went as far as creating several clones of himself to research several things at the same time. He isn't evil or good, what is dangerous about him is the fact he has no distinction between a good idea and a bad one. In my lore he has been responsible for wiping multiple cities and countries off the map just because something he was working on went out of control.


Royal_Bitch_Pudding

You should have one of the clones be his version of OSHA


Saiyan-solar

None of the clones know who the original is (all have the exact same memories) and all of them are split up all over the world as to not interfere with each other and to have possible infighting. Let's just say not all of them are as dedicated to the original cause as some of the others are, which is something the players can exploit.


Royal_Bitch_Pudding

That's perfect. You can have one of them take charge once the party starts interfering too much. It's not that they're scared of the party, it's that all these accidents are bringing unwanted attention and causing setbacks to progress. Even if Clone #74C0 was a clone he was still the foremost expert on Quantum Burritos, and the loss of that knowledge is a tragedy. They still run their own experiments and do as they please, they're just safer about it now.


Saiyan-solar

In universe, nobody is willing to pick a fight with a dude that has removed multiple entries from the list of cities. He's been hired and hunted multiple times by entire nations, only to have those nations fall to ruin shortly after. He's far from invincible tho, he basically creates his own undoing by researching items that can seriously harm him if turned against him (one of the things I had him make was a substance that destroys magic and magical constructs, anyone who touches it loses their magic potential)


borgerishikrimpatul

Big Malazan energy


CaptThresher

bastard offspring of Kallor and Icarium


Saiyan-solar

Malazan, I think I heard of that before


T1B2V3

why would you make the stupid hairless monkey fascists win. some nature spirits should slap the elves in the face to take this seriously because they probably would like it better if the elves stayed in power lol


Saiyan-solar

I don't want to have either win, but it's part of the overarching conflict I have running in the background, it's up to the players to influence the outcome. It's also a driving point for some of the antagonists they meet. As to why humans are winning atm, it's because it's human inguinity vs nature/stagnation, in the end the progress will win if your opponent never changes its how in the real world we went from prey animal to the defacto top of the food chain


[deleted]

Well, more it will end quickly… Can’t keep fighting when all your heavy cavalry are filled with arrows


Winglessdargon

It will eventually end, because eventually nobody will want to serve under him anymore and will desert if placed under his command.


DJFreezyFish

This became a plot point in my world. Humans and elves agreed to rule an empire together taking turns, but the humans had no idea elf lifespans were that long, so they started a rebellion after Emperor Eleris the Immortal reigned for 917 years.


Answerisequal42

Thats honestly a freaking long time to start a rebellion.


nonplussedbatman

Maybe next year


Fatalchemist

"It's been 843 years... I'm starting to get a little concerned that something may not be right here. Ah, I'll let my kids handle it if needed."


Ballersock

They wanted to see how long he would go so they could know exactly how mad and rebellious to be.


Fledbeast578

Honestly, humans should’ve rebelled around a 100 years In because clearly the pact wasn’t made in good faith


Saiyan-solar

I have an nation that has mostly elven nobles, in this nation only the nobles can elect an new leader and a election is done every 50 years. the nation itself is rampant with stagnation as the leaders see those 50 years in the same light as we see 4 years (aka overpromise and underdeliver, only act the hold your nobles/voters complacent with the bare minimum except now it takes 12x longer till something is done). they are also at war with a human nation, and while they have the upper hand now, the humans are rapidly industrializing and developing new weapons to fight the elves (they already made muskets and the first batches of warforged just left the factories ingame)


AkrinorNoname

And that is why in my homebrew world, the high king of one country only holds office for 50 years (or until death), before the dukes hold another election.


finalbeginning96

This is heavily offset by the fact that, within the lore, the shorter a race generally lives, the more active they tend to be in the world. Humans, despite having one of the shortest lifespans of all the various races, are consistently at the forefront of basically everything that happens. They are highly productive. To put it another way, the elf employee might take a lot more time to complete a task simply because to them time is different. The human might work a lot faster.


Android19samus

"Of course I'm not going outside! Have you seen all the bullshit that's out there!? I've still got 700 years of life ahead of me!"


Forgotten_Lie

Exactly, a Human is going to go out and start slinging cantrips after 2 years of practice when we Elves know that you need to devote at least 5 years to the proper enunciation of the second clause of the Prestidigitation spell but only if you've spent 10 years reading the history of Arcane magic in the original Draconic.


RandomLink609

Or feel the need to do anything speedily. Go have tea with my elf neighbor John? In a couple years what time to mow my grass again? I just mowed it a couple seconds ago. Quite literally takes a year long nap.


finalbeginning96

Exactly. Depending on the aetting, elves can live anywhere from like 700 years to indefinitely. A year is lime a month to then at the fast end of the spectrum.


Electric-Frog

This is why Salarians are one of the most influential species in Mass Effect. They're lucky if they live to 20, but they're extremely active in that time.


karkajou-automaton

Elf Manager: "You get a day off once every 5 years. Suck it up, ya lazy human."


discourse_is_dead

You get 20 years off for every 90 worked, with a 5 day work week, this is incredibly generous, why are you complaining human?


Dektarey

That actually is incredibly generous for DnD. A week counts as 10 days, meaning you only have to work half a month.


Mogamett

One human character of mine got adopted by a good aligned drow when he was six. She legit panicked when she realised he had reached puberty in a blink on an eye. "What do you mean "how girls work?" You told me the other week they are icky!!" "That was three years ago!"


NeroMorgenstern

I read that elves age at the same rate as humans until they are about 20, then stop aging until they are about 750 years old. They are considered adults at age 100 for cultural reasons, not biological ones, as it's believed that a 50 year old teenager doesn't have the emotional maturity to make decisions by themselves, even though their body is fully developed. Not sure if that's even originaly D&D, but I learned it in a D&D context.


Mogamett

Not sure, I don't remember reading this anywhere. I don't know if in some manuals there is something confirming or contradicting it, elf aging has always been left in the vague in what I read. In my games we always interpreted it as "elves age slowly from birth to death".


MeirIeach

It's in the Player's Handbook, under Elf Traits. > Age. > Although elves reach physical maturity at about the same age as humans, the elven understanding of adulthood goes beyond physical growth to encompass worldly experience. An elf typically claims adulthood and an adult name around the age of 100 and can live to be 750 years old.


Mogamett

And yet adult elves are still level 1. Not sure how I feel about this.


eyalhs

They've been lazing around for 100 years (or didn't work on combat)


Mogamett

"When will you get off the couch and start adventuring?" "Mom, I finished Fighter Academy just fifteen years ago, cut me a break!"


Dektarey

I think its pathfinder lore.


ColdBrewedPanacea

the default lore for 5e is faerun, in faerun elves reincarnate. at age 100+ they start to get visions of their past life where they were vibing happily with their deity n shit whenever they enter their trance (their replacement for sleep). so their concept of maturity is based on that connection to their past lives.


LavransValentin

I’m pretty sure it’s in the PHB, under the elf race


Conselot

I think MToF goes into detail about elf culture and says that yeah they do grow at the same rate as humans, but in order to cope with their longevity, and their immortal souls, they aren't considered adults until about 100


Thrishmal

Might be an article on it in one of the old Dragon magazines, they would sometimes give cultural breakdowns for races.


MurmuringPun

Played a campaign with this premise, human apprenticed under an elven wizard, and 40 years later is still seen as an errands boy- revolts and polymorphis his master into a sheep- A wild sheep chase- great adventure, funny moments. Had a blast running it


ACollectiveDM

I think i have that one waiting in the wings! Glad to hear it sounds like such a blast


Gentlemanchaos

suddenly, the drow's habit of killing one's boss and taking their job is starting to make a lot more sense


NarcoZero

I my headcannon the existence of Waukeen or any god of trade is the only thing that prevents inflation in a D&D world. Think about it, the rules of magic are the rules of the universe. Material components need stuff that has a precise market value. If you buy a 200gp diamond but go to someplace where it’s worth more, can you revivify ? Prices must be stable everywhere for magic to work. All thanks to the gods of trade. Change my mind.


LGmeansBatman

Literally the invisible hand of the market at work. Or something.


Straitlace

I'm currently running a campaign that takes place over mutliple generations, and I can confirm this is the kind of stuff you have to think about.


Frenetic_Platypus

I mean counting experience in years is already silly in the real world, pretty sure they just wouldn't do that.


xForGot10x

You overestimate their intelligence score


zombiecalypse

Yes, this is why this practice would never catch on in the real world, right? Right??


SharpRival

"years experience" is just a really short way to ask for a general amount of experience on a job post without having to write a novel. Finding out your ability level will come in from the interviewing process. For example, someone could have 3 years experience with Bootstrap (CSS library for websites). However, they are only applying classes to Wordpress blocks in a Theme that uses Bootstrap. This would be much different than someone who worked on a Reactstrap app over 1 year. On paper, first applicant has more time experience in Bootstrap, while second has less time experience, but has much stronger skills (assuming you were hiring for a web dev job). In short, job postings aren't the end all be all of what a company is looking for. Often, they are mostly written by an HR department that doesn't even understand the role. Nobody in business and management with a brain is simply looking at years experience, especially since everyone knows that not all people work at the same level.


HolySquire

Pathfinder has an interesting take on elven culture. The elves raised in elven states view life and the experiences they live with the perspective that they would be perfectly fine when 50 or 100 years have passed. While the ones raised in predominantly human cultures tend to share the human perspective on the passage of years. It’s very interesting lorewise watching two elves discuss their perspectives, especially considering that an human-raised elf of 50 years or so, who probably has witnessed some close friends or family die from old age is barely in his adulthood stage on elven society


BlackStrike7

In my campaign, the reverse is true - positions in the government, military, etc. are term-limited, to prevent a significant elven minority from accruing too much power. This has become a serious point of tension between them and the human-led establishment.


CaptainSmackJerro

Yeah honestly im shocked the elves havent enslaved the humans and others.


notahaker

Well, most humans startoff with a feat probably helps keep up with the less active elves


zombiecalypse

I'd think dwarves would be a good candidate for enslaving other races: they value material things and fine craft, but focusing on that requires unskilled labour of miners, etc. Elves always struck me as less materialistic and likely to base their culture on magical enhancement to production, so they might not bother with a slave based economy outside the underdark


Royal_Bitch_Pudding

Don't most version of dwarves value hard work?


Cthulhu321

they generally do with the exception of the duergar who suffered from partial lobotamisation from their time with the mindflayers, but in the forgotten realms there is also Abbathor dwarf god of greed and trickery who gets his followers to aquire wealth by by any and all means necessary, but they will likely still work very hard on their cons for the most profit


zombiecalypse

Forging is hard work too! Though you're right, maybe just being materialistic doesn't mean you let other people do the hard work


Royal_Bitch_Pudding

Forging is definitely hard work, but it's skilled labor. I always had the feeling that while Dwarves may hold skilled crafting on a pedestal, they greatly value all the hard work that goes into enabling their crafts-dwarfs. Since they're usually portrayed as pretty communal. Can't have the master smith without the miners in the depths.


ImmoralJester

Levels of work differ though. Think of how hard your average Amazon packer works and how undervalued they are compared to how little like a Senator works and how "highly" they are valued.


Royal_Bitch_Pudding

A Dwarven Clan is usually smaller and more communal than we are, is it not? So different culture and values than what we have today. Also the artisans likely don't want to deal with all the political stuff. So, they value that. They'd likely have a great deal more trust in their leaders than we do. Probably less corruption, but the same amount of stubborness. And no one I know values a senator very highly


ImmoralJester

That's why I put it in quotes lol


InquisitiveNerd

Explains why he was eating dirt in the previous meme.


smilingkar

Ghost race: 😉


Pauchu_

Every fantasy setting ever: Elves live very long or forever. What keeps them from total world domination? iTs jUsT nOt tHeIr WaY! If there was a decent explanation, like "They have a long reproductive cycle, and thus are few in numbers, which gives them a low drafting pool, even tho members of the race are in the drafting age for 200 years." that would be fine, but just saying "They would never do it, because they are good guys" is just lazy storytelling.


Taliesin_

I played in a homebrew campaign where the elves had banded together to form a xenophobic empire that was halfway through conquering the entire world. The war of conquest had been going on for hundreds of years, and the same elves who had fired the first shots of the conflict were *still at it,* while their opponents' children's children's children's children's *great-fuckin'-grandchildren* are now guerilla fighters desperately trying to get what's left of the non-elf world to work together long enough to stand any kind of a meaningful chance at survival. It was honestly so damned cool to see what that sort of lifespan meant if you actually paired it with any kind of military ambition at all. Wish that campaign hadn't been killed by scheduling conflicts.


Pauchu_

Damn, that really sounds awesome


Koomaster

One word: boredom. Imagine working in the same job for hundreds of years? You’d most likely retire to pursue something else. There is also the fact that how a job is done changes over time. Just because you have 50, 100 years of experience doesn’t mean you know how to do the job as it’s done nowadays. If an elf wanted to stay in the same job, they’d have to retrain. Maybe eventually go back to college.


charley800

On a similar note though, humans should *vastly* outnumber elves on account of the significantly slower rate of reproduction, and due to the nature of reproduction that difference grows exponentially. Sure, you want to hire an elf for this position, but there are literally 14 in town and they've all had the same positions for at least half a century.


Sam_Hunter01

Those are actually interresting points, but for another setting. And now I'm gonna spend the night thinking about carreer advancement inequalities in Shadowrun instead of sleeping.


AssignedMomAtBorn

Capitalism would be a complete failure for this very reason in D&D


Le-Ando

That’s funny because I’m literally using capitalism to bring down the lifespan of Dwarves in my homebrew setting. Sure, they can THEORETICALLY live to 400, but have you seen the working conditions down in the mines?


AssignedMomAtBorn

You sick bastard...


Le-Ando

My homebrew setting is fucking wild TBH. I also have: Elves who only live to 200 because their connection with the fey was severed to bring about an end to a war in which humans were victims of genocide and slavery. A pantheon of dead and forgotten gods, usurped by ageless mortals they created to act as vessels. A countercultural movement that formed among the Drow due the waning power and influence of the high priestesses (due to my settings Lolth equivalent having been killed like the rest of the pantheon) and their exposure to the world topside during the war. A BBEG who is literally just an elven fascist who want to “restore the glory of old elven society” mainly by creating an elvish ethnostate and reforming the elves connections to the realm of the fey (by force most likely). And so much more that I would love to mention if it wasn’t 1:20AM where I live. I really just wanted to subvert expectations as much as possible and take things in unexpected directions. I wanted a unique setting, and I think I’m definitely going to end up with one.


doomparrot42

A lot of this sounds very inspired by Dragon Age, especially with dead gods, mortals trying to replace them, and elves losing their longevity and trying to restore it through violence.


drevolut1on

Seems to be failing pretty nicely these days IRL, too. At least for the majority of folks.


Common_Stand3020

Which economic system doesn’t fail the people?


borgerishikrimpatul

Yeah, not like it exactly needs the help lol


Cthulhu321

not really, there are many things to consider, in general Elves are a small population group for setting determined reasons, and also tend to either be a tiny group in areas or opperating ethnostates, talking on the more cosmopolitan groups they can only take so many jobs and often elves are portayed as doing speicalised jobs at that such Arts, creating things, magic ect from these groups Furthermore many people are self employed are self employed in fantasy settings this applies espiecally to specalist jobs as well, consider how many settings have hedge wizards (traveling looking for work) vs court wizards. Continuing on Humans are protrayed as having great potential and drive in lieu of lifespan which allows them to compete well above what might be expected, for example humans were the only ones who could get expertise from their race (the Prodigy feat which is even more noteworthy when considered that varient human could take it) Finally a very important factor would be supply and demand, not just in number of people but for wages, elves are generally portayed as living more refined and expensive lifestyles then other races so won't accept lower pay then a human might


AssignedMomAtBorn

I'm talking about today's capitalism. You do realize that medieval Europe didn't run on capitalism, right?


Cthulhu321

I am aware, that medieval europe didn't opperate under capitalism, there was a prevailing view that the wealth was a zero sum game with the exception of mining for gold/silver. The points I provided were aimed to today's capitalism, elves would not dominate buisness unlike how the meme indicated, their lifestyle and chaotic nature would likely make them struggle with job shifts, lawful races would dominate corprate life due to the way they go for a well-ordered society with dwarfs being a possible exception if they remain uber traditional and refuse to change with the times. There is also the fact that technology and what is needed evolves quickly and much of an elf's training might be out of date meaning they're equally well trained as another race's professional and may not be stuck with outdated predispositions. Of course this does not properly account for magic so could be subject to revision depending on which magic system is used, for example if it used dark sun's system it would be very different to forgotten realms


discourse_is_dead

Nah, in a world where the demi races and humans all cohabited the same areas, the demi humans would just own a lot more land and industry.


AssignedMomAtBorn

Maybe industry, but land? I don't think so.


That_Lego_Guy_Jack

Well if a human has 50 years experience but an elf has 100 the human is likely more valuable because they have more experience relative to life expectancy and probably are *more* “experienced”. Since elves aren’t just better at the end of their life we have to assume that the shorter lived races learn faster


JetoCalihan

Look, their outlook on their life expectancy would probably mean they don't take a job seriously for the first 10 years or so, but an elf with 20 years experience is at least good at the job and isn't likely to quit willy nilly. They're still capable and much more stable than a human/dragonborn/other sub century life expectancy being. And that's without even factoring in the fact that the more experience you have the less new experience is worth comparatively. They really would be a seriously disruptive force.


YooPersian

Ever wonder why 200 year old elves and 20 year old humans often have the same lvl? Elves are stupid and slow


VanVahlen

I always imagine elves are really slow learners and reach adulthood at around 300


Dr_Jude

It’s weird how many fantasy worlds have kings and capitalism existing at the same time in the same place.


zachsilvah

How is that weird? Monarchies and capitalism coexist all the time.


Dr_Jude

D&D fantasy is mostly rooted in a romantic vision of medieval Europe akin to Arthurian legend which is what I had in mind.


doomparrot42

No they don't? Commerce and capitalism aren't the same thing. Until relatively recently in historical terms, most monarchies operated under a feudal rather than a capitalist mode of production. It's true that monarchism is compatible with capitalism, but if you're talking about the historical periods that inspired most fantasy settings, that wouldn't be quite accurate.


rimpy13

Exactly this. Capitalism is quite a new invention. Merely exchanging goods and services on a market doesn't mean it's capitalism.


zombiecalypse

Depends on what period if any the world is based on. For example the Forgotten Realms always gave me a 16th-17th century vibe, and accordingly has a lot of capitalism. Otherwise I don't see why we need to bother getting 500kgp back and prevent others from getting them


doomparrot42

Unless you have exchange of capital, separate from an exchange of goods, I'm not really sure that qualifies. Mercantilism, perhaps, which is certainly a precursor, but I'm reasonably familiar with FR and I don't think it's got much in the way of capital. Still seems to have commons, for that matter. Capitalism historically required the enclosure of the commons, such that people who could have at least partly supported themselves through common land were instead forced to sell their labor for a wage. I don't think that's a thing in FR. Granted, discussing subsistence economics is a little weird in a world where spells like Create Food or Goodberry exist. Exchanging goods or services for money isn't exclusive to capitalism. Sidenote, but anyone interested in fantasy economics would probably enjoy Charles Stross' Merchant Princes series. It isn't quite fantasy, but it does look at a medieval world transitioning into capitalism. Super odd and interesting books (which honestly could be said of most of Stross' writing).


dingus-wright

Yeaahhhh I sorta forgot how long elves live and it's basically gonna ruin my campaign unless I get in front of it.


mistrsinistr

I always look at it as once Elves figured out capitalism they rise through the ranks quickly using their long lifespans and charm so that they can accumulate enough money they never have to work again and go right back to doing what they did before they were capitalists. Of course, this causes wealth inequity that can be used to make a nice grimdark fantasy world to play with.


deadwate

wait... OP keep talking


vibesres

Elves dont care about you human jobs!


Nova_Persona

humans live faster though, it's possibly they've done more with those two years


Nat_Libertarian

Well it sounds like the easy solution is that people are generally racists. Elves and Humans. They typically don't interact with each other and when they do their offspring are described as being unwelcome among either groups.


cursedhfy

One more reason to exterminate the elves.


Anunqualifiedhuman

I imagine Elves probably do jobs that require a lot longer to be done in well taking an extremely long time to finish and do it often alone think Master craftsmen and Arch Mage's I doubt Elves would effect the human work place as Humans thrive on doing lots of short but large projects from an elves perspective using each of their specialties to get on an elf's level over all. You want one job done really well you get a master elf. You want a large project that becomes short term you get humans as not only are they cheaper they when added together have the same skill set as a group of Elves would do.


theelement92bomb

Now just imagine falling in love and marrying an elf as a human- you are basically guaranteed to die before the elf, unless some kind of Arwen situation happens, and do you want to deal with that heartbreak?


ralanr

That’s a point humanis (a human supremecist group) makes in Shadowrun. This being Shadowrun, it’s not completely inaccurate.


Iamnotcreative112123

This meme format makes for very informative dnd memes. Never thought about that before.


ImmoralJester

Lol like an elf would be working a job. Someone who has hundreds of years available would have stacked enough in a brokerage account to never have to work again. THAT would be the unfair shit. Someone who can invest on a scale beyond your entire family line setting the standard would mean either EVERY SINGLE elf would be a millionaire or NO ONE else would ever be able to retire since ROR would have to be standardized to like .01% YOY lol


ChromeToasterI

I think in FR this is countered by humans just being really talented or focused. Since they live short lives they only really focus on one trade, whereas an elf might dabble in many things. Also there are very few high elves outside of Evermeet.


omega-falcon

Imagine older elves when their 300 years of job experience becomes worthless because some technological innovation makes whatever they were doing completely obsolete


Duck-Lord-of-Colours

Now consider the disproportionate effects of prison sentences


hooah89D

If you consider that many of the Long Lived raves would spend a good portion of their early lives (a good 100-200 years) as "children" in the eyes of their culture, there may not be nearly as many as you think there are. Elves are usually portrayed as kind of slow to do anything, not in a lazy way just more of a if it's worth doing it's worth doing right. Which means they could spend doing something for 50 years that a human would only spend a few years doing. They also don't have the need to procreate at an early age so something like a war, plague, or famine could set them back multiple human generations. I've never found anything on the gestation period of elves but that could also be really slow. Dwarves have been known to spend most if not all of their lives in Dwarven colonies perfecting their craft and mining can be a very dangerous job. In my world the long lived races make up a much smaller portion of the population in "human" cities but have their own lands/kingdoms where they tend to live and work.


OneWithFireball

And they rest for only 4 bloody hours


Lessandero

"So how much work experience do you have?" "4 Levels."


Akul_Tesla

This is why elves are the most advanced race. Straight up super long lifespans give them so much time to do anything. Even dwarves and gnomes don't have as much time.


cramduck

I'm not sure how I feel about this "reassuring walter" final pane trend..


[deleted]

Nah. I don't think humans would let elves roll up and steal their jobs or that the elves would hire humans for anything but unskilled labor.


geldonyetich

Shadowrun in a nutshell.


GeraldGensalkes

This is why elves in my setting are more or less required to retire from public life after a couple hundred years. Not only does their long lifespan fuck with the ability of non-elves to function in society, it also fucks with their own children and their ability to fill social roles.


Blutine753

A human is probably the equivalent of an intern to the elves. Unpaid labour


nikstick22

elves probably change professions a number of times in their lives. Doing the same job for 200 years straight would be torture.


SpaceDuckz1984

Yeah, the fact that Elves and other very long lived races don't rule all of existence with an iron and gold requires the highest suspension of disbelief of all the lore in D&D to me.


Vulpes_macrotis

Tbh, I don't think evles would apply to same jobs as humans. Yeah, elf construct worker. Or elf who is McDonald's manager. Yeah, yeah.