damn, so close
By - SuperKonsti
It pays to share your information with the party
I’m imagining a vengeful dm trying to subtly punish the rogue for being greedy but the rogue slipping his way out of it every time.
Gotta use that Uncanny Dodge somehow.
DM: GODDAMNIT. You know what ? Fuck you ? *summons lighting on rogue
*rogue can no longer sneak because he is illuminated*
That is actually better than smiting them with a lightning strike.
Yeah that just suddenly makes them a shittier fighter.
*Sneaks in between blades of grass because he somehow got a 74 stealth roll*
Fun fact: identify *specifically* does not detect curses. I think that was mentioned in SA.
Then... what does?
Attuning and figuring it out. Or context clues, or legends or something. From SA:
Since resting identifies magic items, **and the identify spell doesn’t spot curses**, what is the role of the identify spell? The most important factors are time and convenience. During a short rest, which takes at least 1 hour, a character who meets the qualifications can determine the properties of one magic item (see “Identifying a Magic Item” on page 136 of the Dungeon Master’s Guide). In contrast, casting the identify spell takes only 1 minute (or 11 minutes if it is cast as a ritual) and can be done when a quick determination is needed.
Iirc, I think there is a detect curse spell. Let me double check.
Edit: DMG is where it specifies that identify doesn't detect curses. I'd recommend adding in an HB spell, maybe a 2nd or 3rd level ritual, to detect curses. Maybe consuming the material components if it detects one? I don't know, I haven't really put much thought into it yet. Higher level than identify, for sure.
What book is SA? I think I am too stupid to figure that out.
not a book, Sage Advice. Basically, rules clarifications made by the designers on social media.
Ohh, that makes sense. Thanks man.
To clarify further, there's actually 2 different things that may be referred to as Sage Advice. There's the [Sage Advice website](https://www.sageadvice.eu/), which is an aggregator for tweets and such from designers at Wizards, and then there's the more recent creation of the [Sage Advice Compendium](https://dnd.wizards.com/articles/sage-advice) which is a PDF created and maintained by Wizards.
The first link here, the website, is no longer considered "official" at all, many devs and such tweet with vague responses or referring to their own homebrew rules and such.
The second link is the actual official one; from the first page of that document:
> Official rulings on how to interpret rules are made here in
the Sage Advice Compendium.
Anything in this document is the official "correct" and intended ruling. You'll find tons of overlap as most of the Compendium was just a gathering of questions that were previously in tweets, but MANY posts from the website didn't make it into the file, meaning they are not official.
That said, this is just a general clarification, the excerpt mentioned earlier in this thread is from the Compendium specifically so it is an official ruling.
Isn't it also not official tho?
really depends on your definition of "official". At the end of the day every group decides what rules to play by at their table. Most Sage Advice you'll find will just point out already existing rules text that you might have missed or misinterpreted. Some of it goes into "not strictly supported by the rules text, but how it is intended" territory.
The tweets and social media posts themselves are not official, but anything put into the Sage Advice Compendium is official
Saga Advice is a Q&A with the game developers
I’ll be honest, whenever a player whips out sage advice to try to overrule me I generally ambush them
Ah. Glad to see I'm not the only DM lurking in parking lots to jump my players after sessions.
Well yeah, that's common practice. You've really gotta sell the roleplaying.
The paladin really didn’t like the blanket of smothering that was put down to replace his comforter.
Me : “does a 17 hit ?”
Pally : “no, is that at dis ?”
Me : you’re wearing your armor and cloak into bed ?
Pally : no I guess not
Me : you’re restrained and smothered as your blanket wraps around you in your sleep
Pally : darn you
I'm normally a forever GM, but last year one of my players ran a 2 session pirate one-shot.
I built a mastermind Rouge whose only thing was a very very high passive perception, because he was the ships lookout. He okayed this.
Then when I make my first perception roll, I roll low but think that's ok my passive overrules the roll.
Nope. That's not how he runs passive perception.
Right, so now I just have a shit fighter.
I waited until the end of the first session to bring it up. I brought up what was clarified in a SA. Still nope.
So in the next session I just didn't make an **active** perception check. I just let my 22 passive do the work.
Yeah. Passive and active is hard sometimes. My general go to is if a player tells me that they’re doing something I ask for a roll. If they ask me what they see then I use passive
Outta curiosity what is the SA on that ?
I can't remember if it's in the Compendium or just tweets (and I know Jeremy Crawford said it on the Dragon Talk podcast also). Basically he says that since your passive perception is always on, you can't roll lower than it on an active check. That it's your floor for a total.
I personally don't like this interpretation from a game mechanics perspective but to each their own
Geez, I’m going to stick to my way lol
To me that makes sense. If I can see something well when I'm not even trying, my searching skills shouldn't have a chance of decreasing when I start to try.
I am going to whip out that identifying short rest rule from now on, thank you very much my good man.
That's just RAW.
Taking a rest won't reveal curses either. Attuning to the item will only reveal the curse when it becomes relevant. The only way to detect a curse in advance is using Legend Lore on the item, and even that won't give the specific mechanics, only hints of the curse.
Maybe make it so that you can upcast identify and an extra component or 2 that is consumed (like you said) that can detect curses. Maybe a level per rarity? So you can't use a 2nd level slot on a legendary, but you could on say common.
As I type. Maybe it must be upcast 1 level per rarity for curses. Common item needs 2nd level. That would make legendary at 6th level, I think?
You could also maybe use detect evil to identify it has a curse, but not what the curse is.
Honestly, I don't think having a way to identify cursed items is fun. I feel like of you want to include something it should be a long ritual that has to take place at a major hub town. Maybe even weeks of study. If the characters find magic items in the middle of a dungeon, there should be some level or hesitancy to immediately use the items (depending on how cruel your dm is known to be). Especially since most curses that I've seen used just add additional fun to the game and are rarely completely debilitating.
I'm fine either way. I'm an new DM that hasn't thrown curses at my party yet. I'm curious as to what curses or items you've had put in front of you. Just reading throught the DMG there are some really nasty curses that could cause some big problems.
So I wound up getting the first cursed item in a CoS campaign where Remove Curse doesn’t exist. To compensate, there was a DC20 strength save to remove the cursed ring (as well as cutting off the finger). Because of what the item was (cursed ring of water walk) and the circumstances one would use it in, it could have been fatal for my character and their -1 to strength as they could not have made the save. But thankfully, another character saw them pulled under the water and was able to pull the ring off. We had backup plans and while cutting off a finger was an example of serious consequences, it wouldn’t have been fatal, so the curse felt very fair. I mean, as fair as curses can be, haha. I think the main thing with curses is making sure they’re scaled appropriately for your party’s level. The example in a comment below of a necklace of fireballs would be an instant-death TPK for my party, thus not fun at all. But maybe having the range of damage change to shrink or enlarge by 10’ randomly when cast could be fun. The DM determines which effect takes place so the player gets a hint that something is not right without it being a potentially fatal situation. Something like that.
Lots of variations of items that can't be removed / unattended. A necklace of fireballs that is cursed to have them all explode in place if someone wears it. Artifacts cursed with spirits of trickster gods that will give the player a supernatural benefit, an additional character flaw, and the spirit will give them (biased) advice. The spirits were my fav (taken from ToA) and it was cool because the spirits were not actively looking to harm the players, they were actually attempting to be helpful. But their advice was not always great, and each spirit was flawed in a way that made the game more interesting.
Necklace of fireballs maybe have them explode if someone successfully removes them, rather than wears them. Appropriate level party that will be major damage, and if it's immediately after the BBEG of the dungeon, it could drop one or two members.
I mean, you can do whatever you want with your cursed items. I used this item in ToA and it added just enough suspense to an area that was otherwise a low threat to my party.
Also, dropping members after a big boss fight isn't really much of a hindrance to players since unless they die outright they will likely be able to be stabilized quickly. It is a far more interesting item to have someone run into earlier in the dungeon as it will possibly use up valuable resources before the boss and also has the added random chance of aiding the party if it goes off during someone's fight or hurting them further if it has the potential to set off additional traps.
I don't find curses fun, hot take. The party gets haha gotcha'd by one and then they never use any loot they pick up ever again. They just sell it to the highest bidder and then go hunt someone reputable down to buy from.
Identify can also be used to figure out magic traps or if someone is under the effect of what spells which can be a pretty solid use for a ritual/1st level slot. Might even save a dispell magic slot if you can figure a workaround.
Just make sure to have your familiar apply rhe 'touch' range.
I gave out a cursed ring recently... the only clues they got was that it was a ring of darkvision, but when looking at it through detect magic, it also had an aura of divination.
The warlock put it on anyway, and when I said "you immediately attune" I just got a weak "...ohno" hahahaha
One of my first sessions as a player, my party handed me a stack of magic item loot to identify while they got drinks. The first one I picked up turned out to be an item that spies on you. Very glad we didn’t just have it chillin the entire short rest. And some magic items don’t require attunement…
How I *think* it works is,you can figure out if an item is cursed either by identifying it through lore (very high history check, possibly requiring proficiency), or by understanding there is more than meets the eye to the item's magic power ( very high arcana check). If none of these work... well, you might suspect things, but you won't know for sure!
Legend Lore certainly would, though there's some question of if it would work on more common magic items as they aren't, per se, legendary
> Most methods of identifying items, including the identify spell, fail to reveal such a curse, although lore might hint at it. A curse should be a surprise to the item's user when the curse's effects are revealed.
DMG -> Magic Items -> Cursed Items, in case anyone was wondering about the wording.
How do I do the quote thingy?
>Edit: thank you very much for the info
Just my home rule but I would mention that they notice a slight secondary school of magic emanating from said item and just leave it up to them to decide. Not gonna tell them it's cursed but I'm also not going to completely fuck them.
maybe an arcana roll with DC getting +5 per level of rarity over common, higher level spellslot gives +1 per to the roll. if you fail you don't get told about the curse, just the normal effects. if you pass you're just told something like "you can tell there's an extra layer to the enchantment that is hidden by illusion magic within the enchantment" the DM makes the roll behind the screen and just asks for their modifiers so players can't metagame off a high or low roll.
that way items typical for the players level can be pretty safely pinged for curses, they have to actually invest something to ID the higher level items, and they still don't know what the curse actually is and might be tempted to try out the item to see what the curse is anyway. and ditch the identifying with a short rest crap, you wanna figure out a magic item? either use the spell or you gotta go test it out and see what happens!
I like this, I'm also a fan of cursed items bringing great power while taking a little something away every time. Maybe a ring that allows you to halve damage of your choice once per day. However it's not actually halving but absorbing half of it. Once it reaches its limit it explodes dealing all those damage types to an area of 10' Around it. Trying to remove the ring prematurely could cause a random number of things to happen (DM Choice) the amount it can absorb remains unknown. If the wielder dies before it goes off then the charges remain for the next user.
Who said it was cursed? Imprisoned Demons aren't curses, they're just... them.
You know what, fair enough. Just either transmutation or conjuration magic on the ring.
I'd almost certainly say it would be conjuration or abjuration actually. Unless they were transformed into the ring rather than bound into it.
Where do I find this rogue and how much do I have to pay for him
Gimme food and maybe some hugs and headpats, and I'll take the rest from the party coffers. Otherwise, I'm all yours.
All it takes is ale and found family
Are you insane? Being the family of a rogue has a 93% mortality rate.
Being the parents of a rogue has a mortality rate of 93%, found family is indestructible
So I should strap a family to myself as armour...
Why did I read that as "Cartoon Network Rogue"?
[Canadian National](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_National_Railway) Rogue.
So just any Cartoon Network protagonist lmao
Edit: Actually, a chaotic alignment with be basically every Cartoon Network character, although I’m mostly familiar with modern Cartoon Network and shit.
Lol, the fake ring of flying in white plume mountain still cracks me up.
In hindsight, that is the dungeon that almost broke my players… but at least they learned the downfalls of an all martial party
Oh my gosh>!, we had a ring of wish that would take someone's soul. !!their soul was already damned due to being a tiefling!<.
The party went 'wtf' to the Wizard and there was an emotional conversation. The artificer got the ring. >!We all cackled like idiots when we found the ring doesn't work. !<
Thats Classic D&D, love it..
Ill never forget the look on the battle masters face when he dove off a ledge into boiling mud without testing the ring first. He was actually mad at me. Lol
Identify does not reveal curses, my boy
Identify doesn't reveal curses.
I once gave a cursed medallion for the party’s paladin.
It was a really bad medallion, as it gave a bonus to any ranged attack roll, and a negative bonus (?) to any melee attacks, plus it could not be removed by normal ways.
The (stat-wise dumb) paladin asked the wizard to identify the item, then, after knowing it’s capabilities, the wizard was the one to wear the medallion with no second thoughts.
It was supposed to be a joke that would seriously hold back the paladin, and and npc was going to break the curse on it. It turned against me, as it became a huge buff to the wizard.
Actually identify does not detect curses.
Chaotic Neutral should never mean Chaotic Stupid.
I may be dealing with a party with two of the later. They're withholding information from the group and goods.
The DM will take that into their advantage.
It sucks to always be the paladin. :<
Favorite thing I ever gave to my players was a ring that summoned a Balgura every time it was touched with bare skin or had magic cast on it.
The npc basically told them no be egregious cautious, and the first thing someone does is cast prestidigitation to cool it down
Things that have never happened for 1000, Alex.
"go ahead, it's quite cool"
Mou memes in my DnD? More please.
DM: "I'm just trying to give you a cool quest that'll lead to cleansing the item and making you more powerful! Why won't you just do something slightly stupid? Just this once, please!"
Pic looks like an infomercial man failing to put on a headset and smacking himself about the head instead.
"Has this ever happened to you?"
Remember kids, just because you play a chaotic character doesn’t mean you should play a stupid or rAnDoM one
I don’t let identify spell show curses. It’s dormant and hidden. But as soon as you meet the qualifier boom! It might be the next crit miss or failed wisdom save. Now you quack or desire the blood of corpses. No reason why crafty evil artificers didn’t plan for some other caster to check. Sometimes even have a trap set for them casting detect magic on a items. Boom, Polymorph.
Raw identify does not show i think.
Meanwhile my rogue grabbed a magic sword from a chest inside the house of a god....from the very chest the same god told us EXPLICILTY not to touch.
100% not my group.
We fought a dark Wizard and found some shiny rings in a chest. Unfortunately, my character is not only overly curious but also not blessed with amazing mental abilities, so she put them on and convinced everyone to do the same. Now our previously largely good aligned group is very evil and gives no fucks. It's great.
I just read that as Careful Neutral :D
My party always called me the loot whore cause i looted stuff right away.
Because whenever i looted stuff i made sure it got identified and given to whoever wanted it/ could use it.
Cause if i didnt loot right away, either no one would loot and we would miss loot, or people would loot and go "oh cool these gauntlets are cool, i will equip em and never ever find out what they are!"
We ended a campaign with an item we got "somewhat" early on that was legendary, but our fighter never had it identified cause he took it and refused to part with it, it became very obvious why there was a fair few VERY hard parts in the campaign after we were supposed to "get" that item... so we didnt find out what it was and that it was legendary till the campaign was over.
What's this picture from?
This also doubles as the DM's reaction haha
This is why you cast "arcanists magic aura" on all your cursed items.
Or not, just tell them "oh, it's a +2, but it's cursed", if the highest they have is +1, they might take it anyway.
You hear a soft "God dammit" from the stone on the ring
Wow that's a smart rogue
The Wizard in the game I run has a bad habit of attuning to items to skip the cost of Identify. This paid off, for me, when she attuned to a Berserker Morning Star and started running into melee 🤣
Wizard's still gotta touch it to cast identify.
That's why I like how The Ring of Winter dodges it. It has a beneficial (at first sight) ability, that safeguards the bearer and the ring from divination spells. You know what school Identify is? Yeah.
Not CN but also LG
"Do you want to identify the loot during the long rest?"
"....... okay then!"
"BUT, before we set out, I did prepare Identify for the day, and I spend the next half-hour ritual-casting Identify on the loot."
"Okay then. One of the cloaks will shield you from sight, the other from harm."
"Sweet, and the crown?"
"Well you learn it's magic, and it's activated by putting it on your head."
"It's magic, and it's activated by putting it on your head."
"My character doesn't trust it. Bottom of the bag."