T O P
wesleyplaysmtg

Seems like we reached a consensus here: it’s a definite 3.5. 2 is a beagle, 3 is a pardie, 4 is a bogar. Edit: 5 is a dingle bogey, 6 is a trouble, etc.


MunkyGoCrazy

I have one of those at my course. Way too obstructed and it's over 400'. My friends and I think they should make it 40-50' longer and just call it a par 4. It's an old course from the 80s, so it's got that "all holes are par 3" thing going on.


mrpoulin

Ours is 465 and wide open but ever-so-slightly uphill. Too short for a par 4, it feels, but un-birdieable except for the longest local arms.


the_chuggernaut

Hole #1 at my home course is like this. Uphill, guarded by trees, just over 400'. Old course where everything is a par 3. That hole plays like a par 4, and I will take it to my grave that it should be a par 4.


Kriss_941

We have one at my course as well, it's only about 400, but it's like 350 of open field with trees along the right side. Then in the far right corner of that field is a maybe 9x9 feet gap that leads into the green. Also has a massive post for a power line off the tee slightly to the left perfectly blocking a big turnover line... It's a hard par 3, near impossible to birdie, but a par 4 would maybe be a bit too easy...


taco_quest

you are on wholly another level


CaldwellYSR

I dig it


SirBellwater

I've used par 3.5 when a par feels really good but I'm going to adopt that terminology lol


Ingester_of_food

But one???


fistymcbuttpuncher

Albatrace


wesleyplaysmtg

One is always an ace to me!


Ingester_of_food

Except when you float 1 foot above the basket when the wind picked up and stole my first ace a month ago. Wind “oh your first ace hmm here we can’t have that here is a small breeze to catch the disc and keep it from dropping!”


80vain08

For me a 6


TenaciousDeer

Par 5 for me


Ingester_of_food

No it’s a 6 you know you’re going to do a dumb throw out of frustration from dinging off the top and miss again!


Lastbean8708

Par 3, but call it whatever you want. Total strokes to complete the hole don't change.


CaldwellYSR

Fair point


Lastbean8708

Are you going to be handing out paper scorecards and checking them by hand? If so, making everything a Par 3 will make your life way easier to double check scores. If not, make it whatever you want!


naverif

I hear this a lot. But it doesn't make sense. When counting score you can always do it relative to a par 54. Changing the par of the holes doesn't change that.


demticksdoe

I've never understood it either. Total up based on a 54, adjust for actual par, done. Pluses and minuses. People out here counting every stroke when they total lol.


boarding209

yeah thats the way we play at my local course, par 3s even tho some pin locations when they move the baskets are obviously a minimum of par 4, but yeah it makes it easier


MuchAdhesiveness6848

Exactly, pars for a hole do not matter! It’s all about that final number


psiloSlimeBin

In all sincerity, why par even a thing? I don’t mind it, and I guess I probably kind of like it, but it makes zero impact on scoring.


MuchAdhesiveness6848

In my opinion it’s more of a target. Gives you a reasonable number to shoot for. The only problem is sometimes the number isn’t reasonable at all, lolz


PM__ME_YOUR_PUPPIES

My theory is that it started when golf scores needed to be compared despite being different ways through the round, so having a target score for where you are up to and then comparing where you are to that lets you compare people at different points in their rounds. Particularly useful for televised events. Overall though its just an ease of understanding for spectators, the player themselves shouldn't care.


Upward_sloping_penis

Because people wanna make themselves feel better about taking a 3 on a 400ft hole. “I can’t birdie it so it’s a par 4.”


etthat

When me and another guy were putting in a course in the local park, (this is how I originally met him. Didn't know him before we did this) he is an AM player, and my layout was for ADV. Very few trees to work with, so several of the 9 were stretched out. Hole 6 was 666', but def 3able if you could throw 320. He actually said be didn't like the long holes because he didn't like to get bogeys. He wanted them shorter JUST so he could get there in 3. Fuck the challenge. Who cares about using all the space we had to work with. He didn't want to have to throw more than 3 shots per hole. Also, I say fuck par 4s. Did you throw less shots than your the rest of they people on your card? You win!


BeefInGR

In golf it was the idea of "shots required to reach the green + two putts to complete the hole". Hence why in golf everything over 280, for the most part, is a Par 4 and everything over 550 is a Par 5. Disc golf having such strong ties to golf brought the concept of Par with it. However it has altered over time.


psiloSlimeBin

But why does golf have par? Don’t they also score by total shots in the round? Your score is the same no matter what.


BeefInGR

In competition aggregate score is all that matters, which is correct. From what I've been lead to believe about golf's history, Par is more an indication of how you played a particular hole. Now, I will say, in the 50's broadcasters began using Par for the round and competition as a way for viewers and listeners to more easily keep track of the competition (for example, Tiger having a 3 stroke lead on Phil despite him being two holes behind, Paul being tied with Ricky despite him being 4 holes ahead, etc). These days, "Par" doesn't mean much except when attached to a rule (disc golf: if you miss your tee time you are given the score of Par + 4) or when attached to casual play courtesy (mostly in golf, rule of thumb is that you have Par + 4 shots to complete the hole...otherwise you pick your ball up and advance to the next hole).


SmirkingTeebird

Par matters when a card-mate is late and missed some holes. They take a par plus 4 on those holes.


[deleted]

Surprised more people don’t think like this. Was on a card last year at a course with a 505’ par 3 on a tight lane. Probably should’ve been a 4, but whatever. Card mate after a 4 on the hole said “This shit is so dumb, it’s ridiculous to lose a stroke because they can’t make their pars right” Do you not understand how total strokes work? Or? I was so confused


Flyeaglesfly2929

Couldn’t agree more


focophoto

It’s a tough 3, too soft to be a 4


WiseBlacksmith03

Agreed. You make it a par 4 and anyone throwing two consecutive \~200 foot shots will have a birdie put. Definitely a par 3.


Taboo_Noise

Par 3. I'll never birdy it, but that shouldn't change the par.


PM__ME_YOUR_PUPPIES

Pars should be designed with an intended audience in mind. The concept is Par minus 2 strokes to make it to C2. So if you are making a Gold level layout then your intended audience would be expected to have 400ft of power, so Par 3 makes sense. If you're setting this course for a lower audience, then it should be a Par 4. Some people might reach C2 for an eagle look, but realistically they are mostly going to get birdie.


postlw8j

Using expected shots to the green is how ball golf pars are calculated, but I’m not sure it should strictly be applied this way in disc for every level of play for the following reasons: 1. Actually completing a hole is much easier with a disc. Making shots from outside the putting area is much more common in disc than ball golf. 2. Getting a disc into an area where making the next shot is expected is considerably easier when you aren’t throwing full-power. Holes that are just outside of the range to make C2 in one throw would almost always lead to this situation in disc because… 3. Hitting a golf ball to a spot where you can easily hit the green on your next shot is much more difficult than throwing a disc to that spot on a short par 4. Even if the intended players can’t throw 340’ (the distance needed to hit C2 on a 400’ open hole), any decent throw will leave a very easy up shot for a park job. I think we can all agree that a 150’ hole with only two guardian trees shouldn’t exist. That’s essentially what this turns into for every 800 rated player. Even a very short, 300-yard par 4 golf hole requires an extremely well-struck tee shot from most golfers to leave an approach that is not a full swing. 4. Separator holes are good for measuring growth. I’ve played a lot of golf in my life and there are very few golf holes (outside of championship caliber courses) that I am not capable of having a putt for birdie if I hit the shots I intend. There are some disc holes that I’ve played that I do not have the physical ability to hit C2 in regulation because I haven’t played disc nearly as long. It is fun to see my progress when I learn a new shot or add distance that makes those birdies possible. Also, the above is just my thoughts about theoretical course setup not a temporary course. I say just have fun with it and I’d love to see this par 4 in a fun tournament I was playing in because I like to feel good.


PrudentFood77

>is how ball golf pars are calculated and that why PDGA have a page properly named "Par Guidelines" with the purpose "to help Tournament Directors and Course Designers properly determine par." [https://www.pdga.com/documents/par-guidelines](https://www.pdga.com/documents/par-guidelines)


Taboo_Noise

Using the PDGA guidelines someose else posted, I'd say this should always be a par 3 unless the course is being set for total novices and no one else. The hole is a distance check. It makes no sense to give someone a birdie for two 200 ft throws (downhill gives some extra distance). If you're designing this hole for people at that level, it's bad hole design as it does little to nothing to challenge them at par 4 and cannot be birdied at par 3. Birdie isn't supposed to be easy. It's supposed to be perfection without luck.


jtmack33

It’s a tweener. I’d say keep it at 3 and it’ll be a bonus birdie for a couple guys. My rationale is that the overwhelming majority of the field is probably going to be tossing it within 150 feet of the pin. If it’s a par 4, it’ll end up being a near-automatic birdie for every one of those players.


PM__ME_YOUR_PUPPIES

Conceptually C2 in Regulation is a good way to set par. So in this case, for me, it comes down to whether this is a gold layout or a blue one. Gold layout would expect players to have 400ft of power, blue shouldn't. So for Gold you have a hard birdie because 400ft gets you to the front edge of C2 depending on how downhill it is, and for Blue you have an easy one with the occasional bonus eagle.


HumbleHelicopter8569

That's a par 3.


postlw8j

When I first started, I was occasionally frustrated by holes that seemed unable to be birdied without a throw-in even by players who could throw much farther than me. I have since come to this belief: #At least one really good (almost perfect) shot should have to be made to get a birdie. That really good shot could be a drive to within 25 feet followed by an “easy” putt, a great putt from circle 2, a throw-in, a beautiful upshot on a par 4, etc. Now I’m more annoyed by “birdie or die” holes where -1 is almost guaranteed unless I just make a terrible throw. TL;DR I think this would be too easy of a par 4 for MA2 or better.


Glute_Thighwalker

I agree with this. Finishing a hole under par, with all average shots from a below average player, should not be a birdie. Easy par 3s are the exception, but I also think a good course should not have any gimme par 3s if it can be avoided.


Emoney005

Par 3. It’ll be a bonus birdie.


[deleted]

3 for pros, 4 for 99% of people


jfrosty42

So a par 3?


[deleted]

As I said, depends who the tournament is geared for. Calling it a 3 for open and 4 for ams seems reasonable. I think if this was just a public park course, I would put 4 on the sign.


jfrosty42

This is a silly way to look at it. Why should par be increased for someone who can’t throw far? If you went and played ball golf would you change the par on a hole because you couldn’t par it?


kinsarc

I mean, on some courses par does change between 4/5 depending on the tees played.


jfrosty42

Not that weird that par would change for a different hole layout Par is defined based on a first class player. Completely irrelevant what lower level players shoot on a particular hole.


greg0rycarson

Tell that to the designer of the 287’ open downhill par 3 at my local course. Par is defined by the course designer. Whoever they may be.


kinsarc

Good lord. Haha. Anything approaching 200 on a par 3 is difficult as hell.


kinsarc

No, the same hole. The scorecard will read 4/5 because it’s a par four from the mens tees and a five from the ladies, or Vice versa.


[deleted]

I don't play regular golf, so I'm not really concerned with how they handle it. My general rule of thumb is that your target audience should be capable of reaching the green in regulation. So if your target demo for the tournament throws 450, then it should be a 3. This is more something to keep in mind while actually designing the course though. Ideally you should have defined one shot holes, two shot holes, and three shot holes, not tweeners. The PDGA lists the division distance requirements as such: Advanced , 300-450 feet Intermediate, 250-350 feet Recreational 200-300 feet Novice, 175-200 feet Advanced Women , 200-300 feet Intermediate Women, 125-200 feet So you could probably get away with making the hole a 3 in MA1, but definitely not anything lower. As for your question about my mentality on par, I see par as a way to communicate to the golfer what is expected of them on a hole and a course. That is where the utility of par lies. At the end of the day, the number of total strokes is all that is counted in terms of competition. Let me ask you this: If pars are being tailored to the abilities of professional players in a setting in which there are little or no professional players, then what is the value of having those pars? What purpose does that actually serve, or what meaningful information does that communicate to the player?


jfrosty42

Those distances you’re referring to I’m assuming are the distances listed when determining division classifications. They have nothing to do with par. It IS a par 3. Go look up the definition of par. Why would any course want to dummy down their par to cater to lower level players? If getting a “birdie 3” on this hole will make you feel better about yourself, then go for it.


[deleted]

>Those distances you’re referring to I’m assuming are the distances listed when determining division classifications. They have nothing to do with par. Yes, and if you read my comment you would have seen me say, "My general rule of thumb is that your target audience should be capable of reaching the green in regulation." I was division classifications as an example of how you could properly tailor par to the abilities of players in specific divisions. >Why would any course want to dummy down their par to cater to lower level players? I would want to "dummy down" par to cater to lower level players if the course or event is intended for lower level players. I don't understand the logic of catering par to a demographic that is not playing in that division. Again, this gets back to the question of what the utility of par is, so I guess I'll ask the same questions again because you ignored them: "If pars are being tailored to the abilities of professional players in a setting in which there are little or no professional players, then what is the value of having those pars? What purpose does that actually serve, or what meaningful information does that communicate to the player?"


SF_Anonymous

They do that in disc golf already. MPO and FPO sometimes use same tee same basket but different par. In the Portland Open on Glendoveer, hole 5 MPO and FPO use the same tee and same basket, but MPO has a par 4 and FPO has a par 5


Dixiefootball

You don’t change par, but ball golf has different tees to account for different ability/ages. So a different par for AMs is very reasonable.


PM__ME_YOUR_PUPPIES

Depends, are you designing a gold layout for pros, or are you designing a blue or white layout for regular players? Not every course has or needs to be a gold layout. If the bulk of your intended audience isn't going to be able to reach C2 in one shot, then don't make it a par 3. You can always adjust the par for a tournament if you so wish, but at the end of the day the tournament doesn't care what the par is, just how many strokes were taken.


Oltum

Par 3. It's wide open


Biggie_Shmallz

I can't even see the basket but there's a bunch of giant trees in the way. It looks like.


Skidmarkthecat

Hold my beer, I'm going for the 2


JerryLeeDog

Advanced and up definitely a gettable 3...


boyTerry

I am old... all holes are par 3.


ThunderBeast1985

After 3 years of playing I finally birdied hole 17 at my local course that’s also 465 and flat. It’s a par 3 and pretty much wide open. I wouldn’t change it to a 4 unless there were a lot more trees or obstacles in the way.


CaldwellYSR

Yeah I just recently got our 415ft wide open one and the 365 wide open uphill one. Only thing that makes me consider 4 for this one is the trees


ThunderBeast1985

For sure. What course and where is this?


CaldwellYSR

Throwing for a Cure Temp course - Shelbyville, TN https://app.udisc.com/applink/course/34637 This is the temp going up for the tournament.


ThunderBeast1985

Nice! The only course I’ve played in Tennessee was Harmon Hills


CaldwellYSR

Haven't been there yet, done a lot in this area and east of here


ThunderBeast1985

Go check it out, it’s great. Also east of it in North Carolina is a place called Rolling Pines. Highly suggest it.


hisdudeness47

Ah, I see you finally got a Pro Boss. Nice.


ThunderBeast1985

Actually it was a Nuke.


hisdudeness47

That'll do. The reason I said this is because I just parked and birdied the long position (485) on #3 the other day for the first time, thanks to my local used bin.


Good-Butterscotch112

I would say par 3 for all divisions but maybe rec.


dowhatchafeel

That’s a par 3.


Djakob__Unchained

Par 3 all day, we don’t have to be able to birdie everything.


Mrnudis

Par 5 for me 😂, for everyone else I’d say par 3


the_theory_of_memes

3 for sure, even tho it’s a more challenging one


DarylMoore

1st shot: Stuck in tree 2nd shot: Hits branch trying to get cute 3rd shot: Throws too high, lands far to the left 4rd shot: Goes for it, misses 40' past 5rd shot: Hits side of basket 6rd shot: Slams it into goal; falls out, mumbles, "doesn't count." Logs a 4 on UDisc.


DGOkko

Par 3. Easy roller hole.


CaldwellYSR

Setting up a temp course for a charity tournament. Basket will be on the manhole cover sticking up almost exactly in the middle of the image. Curious what y'all's thoughts are. Mine are below: If it were wide open I think a par 3 would be fine, even with the field being mostly ams par 4 would feel like a pretty easy birdie for a lot of the field. With the trees in the middle of the fairway cutting off airspace par 3 feels like an unreachable birdie to me.


Taboo_Noise

This hole will probably be a 3 for nearly everyone regardless of the par you set. Since there's several good lines to get to circle 2 in 1 I don't think you should call it a 4. There's the left and right hyzer plus rollers to get there. Alternatively, if it's a 4, you can just throw it at the trees for an easy upshot and birdie, which feel really lame.


unreadable_letters

I agree with you here. I'm a beginnerish player and I would be hoping for a 3 on this hole. Not that I'd necessarily get it haha. But say a 275' foot drive, that leaves you less than 200 to the pin, and a putt. Two decent shots and a putt. Not easy, but attainable for a lot of players I'd say. I think to make it a true par 4 you need to stretch it out to 500' plus.


Jon_Buck

Since it's kind of awkward, and it's a temp hole, why not just change the placement? Make it shorter or another \~50 ft longer and there ya go.


gart888

This is the right answer. At 415 it's a 3, at 515 it's a 4. Why mess around in between those?


Ingester_of_food

Oh charity then turn those long threes into 4’s and 4’s into 5’s for more fun for people to get birdies more!


pen-357

I think most newer courses this would be a 3 but I agree that it’s too far to birdie so I would say make it an easier par 4 for more fun.


Dastlmo314

Bad hole for a temp course. Shorten up the tee and make it a more gettable, but still difficult 2.


CaldwellYSR

Bad hole because it's a tweener or?


Dastlmo314

Yes. Tweeners should try to be avoided, especially if you are making a temp course and can easily adjust the teepad or basket placement. This hole as is, 90% of the field is probably going to 3 it. Either make the 2 more gettable, or make the 3 more rewarding if there is room to lengthen it into a true par 4.


PM__ME_YOUR_PUPPIES

Its a charity event? Absolutely make it a par 4 then. It will make everyone feel happier, and that's the goal of the event. Rule of thumb for pars is that it should take Par minus 2 shots to reach C2. Its the equivalent of bolf Greens in regulation. If the bulk of your expected players won't have 400ft of power then make it a par 4. If you're expecting a high level turnout Par 3 is fine. But the charity event angle means I would be erring on making people feel good about their score.


jfrosty42

100% a par 3. Just because you can’t throw that far doesn’t make it a par 4. It’d be like going to a ball golf course and calling a par 4 a par 5 because you aren’t good enough. IMO, you should shorten the hole a little. Or lengthen it to make it a par 4.


maestrosouth

Stick golf uses distance + 2 putts, disc golf is usually +1 putt. Is it reasonable to expect most players to get there in two? Maybe 300 +160. Par 3.


Pentinium

Lol, easy 3. Incredibly soft par 4 otherwise


Abiscus3

Par 3 for ma1 pros. Par4 ma2 and below


MeekBeast

5, take it or leave it


AffectionateCow

Par 4. Do you know how good the average disc golfer is? I know par is just a number, but people like getting birdie. I’m 860 rated and never gonna 2 that. Max distance is barely 400 feet and there’s massive trees in the way.


jfrosty42

So because you’re 860 rated and can’t get there, it should be a par 4?


covertpetersen

We have a similarly distanced hole at my local, it's just not straight. It's a par 4 from longs, and a par 3 from shorts. The shorts are a straight shot and are far enough from the longs to eliminate a drive however.


PrudentFood77

What rating should the par be set for? There will be a big difference if you set it for an 800 rated player of a 1000 rated... (There are detailed guidelines on the PDGA page how to set par, and it includes tables for different ratings)


DiscGolfJames

With those trees I gotta say a 4


fastal_12147

Par 4 for casual and league play, par 3 for tournament


Flyeaglesfly2929

Pars just an elision whether it’s a par 3 or 4 everyone’s getting the same scores. U can make it a par 8 still doesn’t affect anything


CaldwellYSR

I had to really think to figure out elision = illusion


Flyeaglesfly2929

Touché


jfb3

If it's not a PDGA rated round make it a 4. Make some of the players happy to get it in 3. If it's a rated round make it a 3. Not every hole can be birdied by everybody. You'll still probably wind up with some getting it in 2.


mdcynic

What skill level is the tee box aimed at? A pro level (and maaaaaybe MA1) level layout it's a 3, otherwise it's a 4.


jfrosty42

Irrelevant who it’s made for. It’s a par 3.


mdcynic

Why? Par is literally relevant to who it's aimed for. The entire point of par is to set expectations and make scorekeeping easier. A typical MA3 player isn't ever going to 2 it without a throw-in, so I think it should be a par 4 if it's white/red level tees. I mean, it's not a particularly good par 4, but that's not relevant. Alternatively, make it a par 3.5. In ball golf courses used to have half pars and I am 100% in favor of disc golf picking that century-old trend back up.


jfrosty42

So when I go play ball golf I should change par to 90 so I can shoot par? Why should par be increased for people who can’t par it? This hole probably plays 430’. That’s really not that far. The definition of par is defined based on a ‘first class player’


mdcynic

If you go play ball golf and you can't regularly reach par 4 greens in 2 well-stuck shots, then you should move up to easier tees. (Indeed, getting people to play appropriate tees is something golf's been trying to push for many years to improve enjoyment and pace of play). The concept of par is built around how many successful shots it takes to reach the green. Disc golf scores are typically much lower than ball golf because the short game is far, FAR easier, not because there's something wrong with the idea of "par".


maestrosouth

That’s pretty a ignorant statement right there. If that were even remotely true we would all be scratch golfers. Par is set to a physical standard based on top level players. Par doesn’t care about your ability level or your ego.


mdcynic

Par isn't an objective absolute dictated by god or the laws of nature. It's a tool, and a tool with certain goals: primarily to set expectations and make scorekeeping easier. It's normal and good for courses to have different sets of tees/baskets for different ability levels, and normal and good for those to not all have the same par (which is true in ball golf too!) "Scratch" isn't even relative to par in disc golf--it's cribbed from ball golf (where it was originally designed around par, sure), but in application, in the PDGA, is closer to an ELO system as it measures players relative to only other players. They just call 1000 "scratch" as shorthand for "extremely good amateur or solid pro", as a 1000 rated round at nearly all courses is under par. Also, the PDGA disagrees with you all: [https://www.pdga.com/documents/par-guidelines](https://www.pdga.com/documents/par-guidelines) I suspect most or all course designers would disagree as well.


fistymcbuttpuncher

For a tournament event? 3 For non-tournament? 4


utclax69

3


8instuntcock

3


FattyMcBlobicus

Several holes like this at a local Uni course, all 3s. I’ve gotten better and better at making an easy par but I’ve got a looooooong way to go to make birdie. IMO a par 3 over 450 feet has to be mostly open. Through the woods that’s just cruel.


bmatto

3 - I won’t be 2ing it however.


AMDGttv

Par 3 for tournament play. At 4 It might score par for most, but, mpo would be a birdie fest unless it’s a 3.


Potential-Noise7048

If that hole were on the DGPT, it would be about 30% birdie for the MPO. At my local C-tier it drops to under 15%, with maybe a solitary birdie in MA1. I've seen local events where a 700' par 4 goes unbirdied.


AMDGttv

To me that data says more about quality of player in MA1 and MPO outside of the pro tour. At 460 feet, especially with the amount of airspace and roller opportunity, if you’re taking a 4 you have made an unforced error. Even in MA1 I’d expect the average player to be able to throw two, 230 ft putter shots with accuracy. In MPO if you can’t do that, well, placings will tell.


Potential-Noise7048

I was referencing taking a 3 on a par 3 460'. Half of the MA2 would birdie a par 4 460' hole.


AMDGttv

No worries m8. Totally my bad! Par 3 definitely the way to go


poony23

3


sls_atv

One of our local courses has a downhill 500 foot par 3. The fairway has trees lining it but not obstructing your shot until about 100 feet out so likely more fair. Pretty much anyone under MA2 consigns themselves to 3 being the best possible score as you can't have a noodle arm and reach.


goodinyou

Depends on your other holes on the course, honestly. Stick with a theme, or use this as an opportunity to balance it out


Ludechking

Par 5


VanREDDIT2019

Oldsmar has different par on same tee pad depending on which color you are playing. Hole number 9 for example is par 5 if you are playing White, par 4 if playing Blue and par 3 if playing Gold. The Red has different shorter tee pad, and is a par 4.


sti-guy

I’d call it a par 3 if you’re trying to make a pro course. Par 4 if it’s just a regular course. There is a course local to me that has quite a few mostly open but long par 3’s. Going -2 or -3 is something to be proud of there.


Pro_Hobbyist

It'll be a tough par 3, but plenty of players can throw 400+ and make a C2 putt these days.


Stillzee

So everyone but me can see the pin? Where is this thing?


maestrosouth

No pin, there’s a raised manhole cover in the center of the pic. I don’t know how you would know that without reading the posts.


Stillzee

Ahh. Didn't dig deep enough for it. Thanks. Par 3, fwiw.


Gdown94

Hard 3, easy 4.


Overthrowdg

3


sledgehammerrr

My homecourse has an unobstructed par 3 that is 450ft. Note that this is a course from 2011 so with the improvements that the sport has made over the past years this should also be a par 3.


StarDestroyer3

Par 3 for pros. Big arms can go hyzer around. Also most pros have atleast a decent roller game to go under the limbs. That being said, on a more casual course it's a par 4.


dascaapi

throw 200’ twice and you’re right there. it’s a 3. if the sign says 4, enjoy the birdie


SkullcrusherFN

Par 3


vulture_165

In this thread: par doesn't matter...and I haven't read the thread yet😂


SF_Anonymous

Where is the basket and how far are those trees?


CaldwellYSR

There's a manhole pretty much right in the middle. The trees I'm not sure of the distance but I think they're under halfway there.


Impossible_Daikon233

Par 3 for sure. If it was uphill with more trees I'd say par 4


fishbwoi

That’s a pro three right there


parkerwright10

3


DDZ13

When I started playing, I was told every hole is a par 3. I still play that way. Even the 1000 foot "monster hole" at Hudson Mills was a par 3. We would be happy with a 6.


Linenlion

I would think if y’all had a short tee (red/white) it’d be 4, long tee (Blue) it’d be 3. It’s one of those like you’re not to sure how to cater to everyone but if you had multiple tees/layouts you could have just one teepad and 2 different pars. At least that’s what I have seen/heard.


Practical_Golf_7021

3 if I have a good drive 4 if I dont


skycabbage

3…send it!!


Ok_Ad_5894

3


prezdizzle

Definite 3. Eagles should be protected 🦅


schnarf13

3


GoaliePro6

I think with the slight downhill a par 3 is fine. There are longer par 3’s on your that even the pros have to settle for a par on. 465’ downhill is achievable with a good throw but otherwise play for par. I don’t actually mind some of the longer par 3’s because it helps you to focus on playing for par. Taking a mindset of “it only takes 230’ to play for par” will improve your score.


Not_a_fan_of_me

Par 3 all the way.


CompetitivelyAverage

Pro 3 AM 4


Zer0Phoenix1105

par 3. 300ft sky hyzer over the trees, then 150ft upshot. 80% of the field would birdie if it was a 4


raynakak

Did you just take a random fuckin picture of a park?


CaldwellYSR

I also left a comment and by now it's been buried.


dopegeebee

Ive always liked this discussion but it really doesn’t matter at the end of the day. All the holes could be par 10 and I’d still get beat by a stroke or two on most holes compared to someone who is actually good.


notnewjustberry

From the looks par 3, theres a lot of air and multiple options off the tee. Seems a reasonably good shot should be able to reach C2. so Par 3


one-moment-please

If there isn't a mando it's wide open for a high left turnover


liiinder

Totally depends on all other holes on the course. If its filled with holes with similar foilage that are 200-250 ft that are par 3 then this is a par 4. If the other holes are about 350ft flat, I would say its a par 3.


nowytendzz

I can't even see the nasket do its a par unknown


Biggie_Shmallz

With those trees in the way I say it's a solid par 4. If you hit the tree or before it, it would be super hard to get it in 3 if it's a par 3. Hard to see where the basket is though so who knows. I know a lot of people don't like easy 4s, but let's be real, a lot of pros won't even be able to birdie this hole.


5vijven

Instinctively, I would call it a par 3, but what’s its scoring average? We have a 294’ hole here in town that consistently averages above 3 in events. You have to throw up a steep hill, through trees, then it doglegs at nearly a right angle, with another 100’ shot through trees to the basket. Getting a 3 on it feels like a birdie, even though taking 4 feels like a bogey. The hole provides good scoring separation due to its difficulty. The hole in the OP looks like it would be a fairly easy 3 and probably wouldn’t provide much scoring separation.


MooseLoafers

Depends who the layout is made for really. I made an alternate layout at our park course with a very similar hole. I can reach it consistently in 3 , but making it a par 4 makes it more accessible for other players. If you’re playing with Mcbeths and Wisockys it’s definitely a 3. If you’re from Maine it’s like a 5 lol


Pornographic_Hooker

I mean at my local we have a 528 foot slightly down hill par 3… and I am salty about it. By slightly down hill I mean mostly flat until it dog legs right to the basket then it’s slightly down hill.


Expensive-Trainer-86

Local course has a stupid downhill 470 narrow fairway tree guarded hole that you can't see the basket till you get within 80 ft hole that's a 3... only hole on that course I advocate to be changed lol, hudson springs hole 17 if anyone's played it


Mthead23

Well, you have two options: this is a challenging par 3 (this wouldn’t be a gimme bird even for a pro field), or it’s an easier par 4 for everybody. This is a par 4.


rocketwrench

It's a par 3


PhilosopherNew1948

Doesn't matter.You get the three. Everyone else gets fours and fives. So it feels like a birdie. A shot is a shot. That how the impossible to park long par 3's are. Great when they knock down early and sketch the upshot.Especially a down hill fast upshot.They edge out and roll off.


Greg_Stewart

Pat 4 for majority of players


jfrosty42

Just because the majority of players can’t throw that far doesn’t make it a par 4.


roscomikotrain

A par three in ball golf means it is drivable for 99 percent of golfers. 99 percent of frolfers will not be putting on a 465ft hole This is a par 4.


pookamatic

Summer: 4 Winter: 3


1stTmLstnrLngTmCllr

I can't see where the basket is, so I'm going to say par 5 at least. With my noodle arm let's make it a 7 to be safe.


chroni

I think everything is a par 4.


SurfsUpHailSatan

Terrible distance, move the basket. This isn't golf where youre basically locked into a 270 yard par from decades ago and now its tough to call a par 3 or 4. If you can't move the basket, hopefully their is some technicality to make it a 4. If it's a course full of high level players call it a 4. I would personally call it a 3 if it must stay. Let the noobs celebrate their birdies, better players can celebrate eagle. Win win. Pros will know it should be a 3 and don't really care.


ImCloserToThePin

What’s the sign say???


CaldwellYSR

There isn't a sign, it's a temp course we are setting up.


ImCloserToThePin

I make signs. You guys need signs lol?


CaldwellYSR

Haha, it won't ever be a permanent course unfortunately. It's a charity event running around a school.


ImCloserToThePin

Yea, I was just jokin. Have fun!


[deleted]

Feel like it depends on whose playing


kinsarc

For almost everyone, par 4. For pros, par 3 for sure.


Muted_Mix5363

Par 3, even if it were uphill


Zer0Phoenix1105

yes. hard to tell how tall those trees are, but even if you only get 275 on a big hyzer you only have 190 to the pin for birdie if its a par 4