T O P
xQuizate87

impact with what? ​ Edit: why did this get so many upvotes?


jlaw54

Ballistic gel engineered at about the same density and fluidity as human flesh.


literal-hitler

They really should put a loose layer of cloth or two over it for more realistic results. I understand it significantly changes the application of pressure and therefore behavior of hollow points. It's why the Critical Duty and the Speer G2 gave that blob of gel in the opening.


genreprank

Putting some layers of denim in front of the ballistics gel is one of the standard tests. Clearly for this picture they picked whatever would make the most ideal expansion.


[deleted]

For Canadians right? You're going to have to make sure it can go through a denim jacket, Denim overalls and a Coors light t-shirt if you want any realism


SparseGhostC2C

If you'd shoot a man in his Canadian Tuxedo, you are a cold one indeed.


[deleted]

On his wedding day no less


Comacozy

Hey bwhatcha talkin aboot? We call that fine attire when we're out for a rip bud


[deleted]

Oh ya bud? Iwas jus assumin yer'all at timmies in the formal wear waitin on yeah double-doubles


memesrule12345610

Triple-triple lol. Not gunna lie I was at Tims today lol


Menace2Sobriety

4 layers of denim is FBI standard.


sdsva

Right. Those two you specified would likely perform more consistently than (most of) the others if there were clothing-like material covering the ballistic gel.


wellrat

Check out Paul Harrell on YouTube, he makes targets out of clothing, meat, and fruit that more closely mimic anatomy. He’s also refreshingly straightforward, just demonstrates different firearms and ammo and discusses the differences.


yeoxnuuq

The keyword is average density. The truth is is human tissue behaves differently because there's a variety of densities and connection between different organs and layers.


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AmbidextrousDyslexic

They are specifically designed to do so. Maximum tissue damage and larger wound cavity, imparting more energy on the target and reducing the risk of overpenetration. Behold: the modern hollowpoint. Many are engineered with specific shapes or segmented partitions to give easy shearage planes when they hit a soft target. And these are all 9mm rounds or similar. You get much more intense rounds with things like full size rifle rounds or even shotgun slugs with segmentation or hollowpoint rounds.


tat-tvam-asiii

These sound like sex toys


fd4e56bc1f2d5c01653c

MaXiMuM eXpAnSiOn


Still_counts_as_one

Extreme penetrator


call_me_jelli

*Xtreme


igordogsockpuppet

XXXtreme*


bageltoastee

and xtreme defense sounds like the name of a condom brand


AydonusG

Spermicide


[deleted]

“What’s your dong name?”


soulseeker31

The black talon.


WaltWhitecoat

Full Metal Johnson


pufanu101

Gold Dot


kremlingrasso

critical duty


borgchupacabras

Or shitty 90s action movies. MAXIMUM OVERDRIVE


imdefinitelywong

Excuse me? [Maximum Overdrive](https://youtu.be/ggWS4tTzs60) was a coked up Stephen King's fever dream from the 80's.


SpookiBat

I did read "critical duty" as "critical daddy" at first.


tat-tvam-asiii

*daddy issues intensify*


RepresentativeAd560

"A minus? I thought you were smarter than that. Go to your room and think about how you're not going to get into Harvard. You're really a disappointment to your mother and me. Hopefully your sister can do better."


guruscotty

For gun nuts, you’re not wrong


Numinae

Don't kink shame me!


guruscotty

Now now… don’t go off half-cocked


Numinae

Oh don't worry - I'm not Alec Baldwin; I only blow my load when I mean to.


COSLEEP

Harry Panzerfaust and the bedroom chamber of secrets Edit: bigger pp 🔫


Numinae

Lol that's almost an insult - they shoot 5.7 with a rifle chassis and have lower muzzle energy than anything but a 22lr. I don't think "Don't worry, you won't feel a thing!" is proper pillow-silencer talk...


COSLEEP

Okay I'll correct it, this one should be more appropriate


rangolikesbeans

Anything can be a sex toy if you're creative enough


AydonusG

Black Talon is a Bad Dragon spin off Gold Dot is an egg V-Crown an Onahole Ranger-T - T for Thrust!!! Xtreme Defense is spermicide Extreme penetrator is thick like a log Critical duty is multifunction Speer G-2 is just loooooooong Maximum Expansion pulses heavily There's a market for all interests


MicroEggroll

Lol extreme penetrator don’t play... lol Compared to my critical duties ... 🤣


YourCaptainSpeaking_

Generally reserved for animal defense (i.e. bears).


artemis3120

So if I'm kayaking in grizzly territory and want to be able to defend myself, I guess I should look up something like "wet wild bears extreme penetration." Right?


FluffyMcKittenHeads

Here. https://i.imgur.com/XmmOKXj.jpg


AptMoniker

Yeah but make sure you get it in 10mm.


few23

Or if I'm backpacking in the low desert, I should study up on "Hot wild cougars in my area" or something to that effect?


Aye_Human

Why? Will a hallow tip not go through a bear?


The-Old-Prince

No. You want 10mm like penetrator


MicroEggroll

Although not practical... what about a glock .50, since that’s a thing now...?


GingerB237

Honestly looking at the ballistics it would be a go to for a bear/moose gun. Fairly slow round that likely wouldn’t get much penetration. Popular rounds are 10mm which can be loaded very hot and fast or 460 Rowland which is also going very fast for the size and being a pistol. Both still have manageable recoil unlike something closer to 454 casul.


AccountThatNeverLies

I guess if you are rich enough to buy a useless gun and then shoot very expensive and hard to get ammo through it enough to be proficient with it against a bear it would do the job. The phillips head bullets are enough and have the same recoil as any other +P round and you can use your versatile and cheaper to train with 9mm.


ShearGenius89

Most hollow points are designed for 12”-18” penetration so a bullet doesn’t fly through an intended threat and hit a bystander accidentally. Maybe that’s optimal to neutralize a human threat but that will only enrage a large bear or moose. I don’t remember the penetration depths of xtreme penetrators off the top of my head but there’s a bunch of ballistic gel tests you can find with them. I carry the underwood xtreme penetrators while I hike because I don’t have to worry about over penetration. Otherwise I carry Federal HST or Winchester Ranger-T. Edit: here’s the second hand bear attack anecdotes that convinced me not to hike with hollow points. A short but interesting read. https://www.reddit.com/r/CCW/comments/tf0ryh/what_do_you_carry_in_the_woods/i0t5nrm/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3


RTW8

Note that the 12” to 18” inches of penetration is into ballistic gel, calibrated to FBI specs. Actual penetration into tissue/ a body will likely be significantly less. Here’s a YouTube channel that dedicated a sizable amount of time and money for one dude on his own testing many of these, and more: https://youtube.com/user/ShootingTheBull410


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few23

> It can hit a bear with a 155-grain bullet coming in at 2,390 fps and 1,966 ft/lbs. That's one fucking fast and massive bear.


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Toytles

Don’t say this on /r/camping! Wild life never attacks anyone and if you go camping with a gun you’re an insecure loser! /s


y6mnn

This man has lived


HotBatSoup

You put down a bear with .223? Was it undersized? Super close to you? Or both? Hit a full sized pretty close to dead on center with a 308 @ 150ish yards and NEVER found it. Damn thing is probably telling it’s story to his stupid bear grandkids.


HamburgerEarmuff

It will, but bears can have a lot of fat and bone, and since they tend to charge you from the front, it could be hard to hit their vital organs with one while you're crapping your pants.


MicroEggroll

Ooooooh, TIL... 🤔


teh_punk32x

Always thought hollows shattered, interesting.


TacTurtle

The hollow opening in the nose fills with liquid and is hydraulically forced open to begin expansion and mushroom. Getting it to expand reliably but not shatter / lose mass is the tricky part of making a good JHP since losing mass means it may under penetrate and fail to stop. If the hollow point fills with a solid instead like fabric or soil, it will fail to expand and will act more like an FMJ.


teh_punk32x

Thank you for the explanation. Couple of questions: 1. What's JHP? 2. I get losing mass and under penetrate, but wdym fail to stop? Cause I would assume losing mass and under penetrate would mean it would stop. Sorry if these are silly things to ask, but physics was never my strong suit unfortunately...


WyrdThoughts

Not the commenter you replied to, but: 1) JHP = Jacketed Hollow Point. All of the bullets pictured except for the FMJ, "Xtreme Defender" , and "Xtreme Penetrator" are JHP's. Basically a hollow point with a copper jacket. 2) In this case, they are referring to a failure of the round to cause sufficient trauma to stop the target/threat due to not penetrating far enough to hit vital locations of the body.


teh_punk32x

Sweet info thank you for the response


notnotaginger

Aw they gave the bullets lil coats. And copper is very in right now.


heiferson

"If you're cold, they're cold. Bring them inside."


TacTurtle

JHP Jacketed Hollow Point Jacket refers to the (ususally) copper or brass alloy layer surrounding the lead core of the bullet. It is mainly to prevent excessive bore fouling by smearing off lead, especially with more modern higher-pressure cartridges. The purpose of expansion is 1) make a larger diameter hole so it incapacitates faster 2) dumps all the energy faster to prevent the bullet from zipping through and out the other side into something you didn’t want it to go into (called over penetration). 1) If the round pokes a little hole all the way through, then the bad guy is less likely to be physically incapacitated (usually by blood loss, but possibly also shock) by a single shot and therefore capable of continuing to do whatever nefarious thing that got them shot in the first place. If the bullet sheds weight immediately upon hitting, it may make a shallow nasty looking wound that doesn’t reach vital areas for a quicker stop. 2) Means that bystanders are at greater risk even if the bullet hits the intended target. It also means the bullet has wasted energy that could have been delivered to the target instead.


bobs_aunt_virginia

You seem to emphasize threats as opposed to targets with the hollow points. Are they mainly used in hunting or in military?


TacTurtle

JHP are typically used in handgun cartridges for hunting or police or defensive use. The military cannot use expanding ammunition like JHP under the Hague Convention of 1899. Rifle cartridges tend to have much higher velocities that will cause a pointed exposed lead nose to flow, crumple up, and mushroom - this is called soft point. It is most commonly used for hunting. JHP and soft point generally are not used for target shooting since forming a jacket that will consistently expand requires extra steps with high precision and thereby costs more (up to 4-8x than a simple Full Metal Jacket)


bobs_aunt_virginia

I'm sorry that I didn't see this before two people responded, but you and u/bfoster1801 have pointed out that the hollow point ones are not used in the military, but are used in policing. From a purely non-political point and with no agenda of any sort (I'm really just curious): Why are these used for police when they can't be in the military? And are these useful for hunting? Are they used for larger game? Also, "Full Metal Jacket" must be where the name of the movie comes from, because of that necessity


bfoster1801

If I remember right the military uses FMJ (full metal jacket) since hollow points are outlawed by the Geneva convention. That being said many law enforcement entities use hollow points since they decrease the risk of over penetration in tight enclosed spaces. Hollow points are also sold as self defense rounds. EDIT: quick google search says that they were banned by the 1899 Hague Convention but the US has never ratified the agreement so even though they have been following those rules they never formally agreed to them.


bobs_aunt_virginia

I'm sorry that I didn't see this before two people responded, but you and u/TacTurtle have pointed out that the hollow point ones are not used in the military, but are used in policing. From a purely non-political point and with no agenda of any sort (I'm really just curious): Why are these used for police when they can't be in the military? And are these useful for hunting? Are they used for larger game?


bfoster1801

It’s not that they can’t be used by the military (at least the US military) it’s just that the US has followed Hague Convention. I actually saw an article from 2015 saying the us military might switch to hollow points for sidearms. From what I understand Law enforcement entities use them because they are less likely to pass through the target. This is ideal when you are in somewhere like a house and fire fight breaks out. When a projectile passes through a target that’s called over penetration. Over penetration is dangerous for a number of reasons, especially if you don’t know where all targets and non targets are located. Over penetration has a higher chance of occurring with a full metal jacket then it does with a hollow point. Also hollow points dump more energy into the target which ideally cause more damage and stops the target much quicker. I’m not a hunter so I can’t speak to the usefulness in that context


Jesuswasstapled

Jacketed hollow point Fail to stop means failure to stop the threat, as in lack of penetration to reach vital organs and kill the thing you're shooting, thus stopping the threat


DarthSanity

Point being hollow points stop at the intended target. Smooth bullets like full metal jacket, etc go through the intended target (or drywall, etc), possibly hitting an innocent bystander behind the target. So use smooth bullets for target practice, hollow points for tactical situations.


Numinae

The "external hollow points" the Extreme Penetrator and Xtreme Defense slow down fast too because the spin. They're meant to super cavitate. Hollow points have a nasty tendency to fail to expand if someone is wearing denim - it jams up the point.


FLORI_DUH

You're saying the Canadian Tuxedo is actually tactical gear?


Numinae

A couple layers of denim is actually shockingly effective. Look up "Paul Herral Meat Target" - he tests out rounds on targets made of meat and with clothing to see how they perform. A few layers of Denim pretty consistently wads hollowpoints.


call_me_jelli

Great. Now I’m gonna have to start wearing a jean jacket for my own safety.


Mr_Smartypants

> wearing a jean jacket for my own safety I believe that was "a few" jean jackets.


call_me_jelli

Brings new meaning to the phrase “I wouldn’t be caught dead in a double denim”


MarkWoodford

Knew a guy that ONLY ever wore a denim shirt and jeans. Both Wrangler, same wash/shade. I referred to him as The Denim Demon.


Speenta

That sounds like a hell of denim burn unless they bathe in talcum powder


Kryten_2X4B-523P

Don't question my commitment to the 90's.


gslavik

Like a denim seller in late 80s USSR.


bobbydishes

I was almost asleep and just laughed myself awake


ActualWhiterabbit

I used to wear a jean jacket and jeans lined with national geographics and a batters helmet with no eye protection for bb gun wars. 3 pump max unless they were like farther away was the rules.


energetic-dad

>They're meant to super cavitate ELI5?


GegenscheinZ

Cavitation is what happens when something moves faster than the local speed of sound through an incompressible fluid like a liquid or flesh. The material deflected by the projectile takes a moment to bounce back to where it started. During that moment, there’s an empty cavity behind the projectile. The more energy the projectile is losing to the fluid, the bigger the cavity. Liquid like water just flows back together, but flesh gets torn up. So to make large cavitations, you need to have a lot of energy in your projectile to start with(can be done through high velocity or high mass or both), but you want to dump all that energy in the target. This is done via funny shaped tips on the bullet, or bullets that are hollow so they mash and get wider on impact


bonafart

The thing with any cavitation is that the refilling of the cavity acts like a mini explosion in its own right causing more damage. Propellers suffering from cavitation tend to degrade not by oxidation but by small chunks of metal being exploded off, the cavitation acts like little shotgun blasts to the blade. Now imagin that in a body cavity. You also get things like hydrodynamic ram effects where the pressure wave expands behind the bullet and then slams forward. That's always fun to think about


smithsp86

Not necessarily to do with the speed of sound. Cavitation happens on boat propellers all the time and those aren't moving through the water at supersonic speeds. It's more to do with pressure.


supervisord

Create a cavity. Brutal.


sysadrift

And because legislators clearly know what they’re doing, hollow points are banned in NJ.


MajesticBread9147

They are also prohibited in the The Hague Convention of 1899, Declaration III,


UnholyDemigod

It's a fun toss up isn't it? Perpetrate an international war crime, or put civilians at greater risk?


lkhsnvslkvgcla

This might be a bit of a cynical take too, but for military use FMJ is actually a better choice, human rights notwithstanding: 1. There's a fair chance your target is wearing body armor, or you need to shoot through a branch/other obstacles 2. Causing an injury (with FMJ) creates more of an issue than killing outright (with JHP). If a soldier dies, you pick up their dogtags and bury their body and keep pushing forward. If someone is injured, it takes medical attention to treat them, logistical support to bring them back, they consume medical supplies and clog up hospitals in the home country, etc. 3. If a bullet can penetrate one soldier to injure another, even better.


kazza789

You might be right, but I don't *think* the Hague convention was about making soldiers more efficient...


Pekonius

Hollow points cause worse wounds, thats their logic.


alelo

iirc its because hollows are harder to remove and cause more internal damage, while FMJ rounds are easier to remove (1 big part)


Bunnymancer

Correct. Hollows are known for the fact that they open up inside the body while having momentum causing them to spin with four blades, shredding internal organs. FMJ just plop in and stay put, or go out the other end.


Yellow_The_White

Even if it's survivable they're gonna have fragments causing pain/discomfort for potentially the rest of their life.


HamburgerEarmuff

It's only a war crime to use in combat. And even then, it's not necessarily a hard and fast rule. If using hollow point bullets is likely to reduce collateral damage, like during a hostage rescue situation, then it might be allowable.


gslavik

Here's what NJ State Police has to say about their understanding of NJ's law around hollow points: https://www.nj.gov/njsp/firearms/transport-hollowpoint.shtml Seems like the ban might only extend to when carrying a loaded gun (presumably with a license). Also, here's a justia link to the NJ law itself: https://law.justia.com/codes/new-jersey/2009/title-2c/2c-39/2c-39-3/


mxzf

> Seems like the ban might only extend to when carrying a loaded gun (presumably with a license). Which is kinda the entire point of a self-defense round.


Dabier

I mean you could still use them at home, right?


nuker1110

Interesting that Nuclear Power Plant security personnel are among those professions listed as Exempt from the ban.


Totentag

That makes sense. Nuclear security is one of those positions where you absolutely do *not* want an aggressor to power through a couple FMJ's piercing their torso.


theoptionexplicit

Or you don't want an FMJ to poke holes in any important parts of a nuclear reactor...


ConcernedBuilding

You'd have a real hard time getting any bullet near any important parts of a nuclear reactor.


DeadLikeYou

He's right, For how iconic the towers of a nuclear power plant are, most reactors are buried deep underground, through layers and layers of concrete, glass, and steel rebar. Theres a saying that "an airplane could crash directly into a nuclear power plant and not reach the reactor", and I believe it.


bonafart

And in the Geneva convention


JonathonWally

Our Governor also banned .50 cals because he doesn’t want people to shoot at helicopters. Jersey gonna Jersey


TheGreenJedi

A little knowledge is a dangerous thing, hollow points are more likely to kill the target and make it harder to survive injury. A through and through bullet wound is bad, but a bullet wound with a giant embedded disk is much worse. But as pointed out, hollows are often banned.


mikeisreptar

And a prosecutor will try to fuck you either way if you ever have to defend yourself. FMJ: “He had a reckless disregard for everyone’s safety! He knew that bullet could circle the Earth 9 times and poke someone’s eye out, yet he still shot!” HPs: “These bullets are designed to blow up in your body! He didn’t intend on stopping a threat. He intended on inflicting as much damage as possible!”


TTTA

A defense lawyer commenting on this when they hit Rittenhouse with that said that for self defense, he asks the local police station what rounds they use and loads those. Should be a fun time for everyone involved if it ever comes up in court lol.


MrPudding28

I think I remember he had regular 55 grain FMJ. The interesting thing about 55 grain FMJ 5.56 NATO is that if you’re close enough to your target and the bullet still has enough velocity in it, the bullet pretty much shears apart inside the body from having such a fast small mass making a sudden stop.


huh_phd

Accurate


gslavik

I wonder why cops carry hollow points, then.


DumbledoresGay69

What type of "tactical situations" are you running into?


jamany

What do you think bullets are for?


BordFree

I shoot recreationally, but it's been a while since I've had a carry permit (moved to a may issue state from a shall issue state). Can anyone inform me of the benefits of the Xtreme rounds? They look like they'd perform similar to a FMJ, which is pretty much the last thing you want to carry for defense (over penetration, etc).


TacTurtle

The Extreme Penetrators are pretty much marketed for bear defense or other large dangerous animals. Bears are big and may need a long hole poked in them to reach vitals.


the_evil_comma

I use my Xtreme penetrator on bears all the time ;)


TacTurtle

This is why you aren’t allowed in zoos any more, Comma.


GuessesTheCar

Comma what?? Keep going! ^/s


OrneryOneironaut

Their three favorite things are dick jokes and not using commas


doubleXmedium

Excuse me, bear..bear Fucker. Do you need assistance?


MyMorningGymShorts

I've been told that speed has something to do with it.


gurmzisoff

Speed has *everything* to do with it. Speed's the name of the game. Right buddy?


pufanu101

Well, it does inform the top how much pressure he's supposed to apply, so... Yeah...


Aquila_Umbrae

Dennis?


the_evil_comma

I try to finish them as quick as possible. They usually don't last more than a couple of minutes.


thedirtysouth1

https://www.reddit.com/r/CharacterRant/comments/fyve74/the_bear_fucking_arc_in_golden_kamuy_is_one_of/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share


j1mb

Is this the right to bear arms thing?


TacTurtle

You joke, but it is actually a concern in the PNW and Alaska. My family personally knows 2 separate people that were stalked, mauled, killed, and eaten by bears here in Alaska. I have several other friends that have had to shoot a bear in self defense. https://www.adn.com/alaska-news/2017/06/22/anchorage-woman-27-idd-as-victim-of-fatal-interior-black-bear-mauling/ https://www.adn.com/alaska-news/2017/06/18/searchers-looking-for-runner-in-bird-ridge-trail-race-who-reported-being-chased-by-bear/


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BordFree

Ahh, cool cool. Deep channels, lots of inertia, possibility of lots of fur and fat to get through before vital organs. Makes sense. Thanks!


ElMontoya

https://youtu.be/exx7yy67BZo Most of these dudes are super wrong, man. Just watch the video. These in 9mm 90 gr +P+ vs Speer Gold Dots. This bullshit about "they spin really fast" is really stupid. The twist rate of your round is based on your barrel's rifling. Those flutes aren't even angled to induce spin. They may rotate slightly faster per unit time because they are lighter and therefore faster than other rounds, but the spin per unit distance is the same, and that's not their mechanism anyway. The tip is designed to slow the round down and dump its energy into the medium. They're barrier-blind. (Hollow points can clog with matter like clothing, sheet metal, or drywall and fail to expand, performing like FMJ and over-penetrating.) The 115gr version that came out years ago used to penetrate too much for responsible thug-blasting but the newer lighter variations penetrate about the same as the famous hollow-points and do it more reliably. They're great bullets. Do your own research and do not solicit gun advice from Reddit, especially in a non-firearms subreddit. Edit: they don't "disintegrate" either, no matter what they hit. They're solid spun copper, not sintered or anything like that.


Numinae

They spin REALLY fast and cause super cavitation inside a wet target. They rely on velocity so tend to be light and in theory at least fragment if you hit drywall or wood like a 223/556 will. I prefer the ones made out of sintered copper and plastic so if you miss a "wet target" they just turn into glitter when they hit something hard. They rely on hydrodynamics so it only does massive damage in a target that's say, 70%ish water...


TacTurtle

Extreme Penetrator is different than the ARX ammo. ARX is the cavitation / shockwave sintered plastic / copper bullet you are thinking of. Extreme Penetrator is a solid copper bullet.


gslavik

> a target that's say, 70%ish water... An ugly giant bag of mostly water?


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cute_polarbear

Super gun noobie. Very rough estimate, what's the price range difference among them, per bullet I guess? (not sure what's the normal quantity they go by... Dozen?)


daVinci0293

Let's go with 45 because it's a common enough competition and home defense handgun. "Plinking" ammo, shitty 45 acp/auto fmj that may or may not squib/jam can be as low as $0.25 per round. Still just as shitty, but probably won't squib/jam rounds approach $0.50 - $0.80 per round. These are for target/training, they are what you shoot so your wallet doesn't cry out in pain every time you pull the trigger. Competition, decently made, or home defense rounds for a 45 acp/auto can run you $1.00 - $1.75 per round. So, literally a dollar every time you pull the trigger. Or, if you'd rather think about it this way, between 100% and 700% more expensive. It's a different ball game, because of the sheer amount of mass involved, but accurate and reliable 300 win mag hunting rounds can approach $5 per round. Though, you probably aren't target shooting and sighting your rifle with expensive hunting rounds, and even a decent hunting rifle will run the risk of overheating/warping if you fire too many 300 win mags through it.


MaximumAbsorbency

Also you might think like... $1 per bullet isn't so bad you only need a couple right? But typically you want to practice with what you carry. Personally I usually bring one or two loads of the good stuff with my plinking ammo when I go to the range - but I'm an absolute novice and nonexpert.


flumpypompom

Flowers, they look like flowers


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its_liiiiit_fam

People can really turn anything into a profit huh


twister6284

Thought someone was showing off their lipstick collection for a sec xD


Lifeabroad86

Ranger T and black talon are pretty much the same exact round, they just removed the black coating and changed the name after a terrible shooting in the 90s


thatsnotaknife1

Bullshit fear campaign of Karens saying the advertised Teflon coating helped it go through body armor (total bullshit), which was actually intended to help with feeding reliability


StevenMcStevensen

Reminds me of when Glocks first came out, and people were pushing to ban them because they were « plastic guns that could go through a metal detector without being noticed. » To support this, some agency showed that they were able to bring a 17 through airport security in their bag without the TSA noticing. They of course didn’t mention that they had two other metal-framed handguns with it that the TSA also didn’t notice.


St34mpunk-V1k1ng

what abt a 700 nitro express?


gslavik

As long as you get to collect all the pieces of the gel across 5 states.


Asmewithoutpolitics

They tried but ended up in the hospital with a broken shoulder


Master-Tanis

We’re waiting for it to stop going through things so we can recover it.


phatgiraphphe

Why are we not talking about that ridiculous font? If Comic Sans had a middle school aged sister.


InformalCriticism

This might sound a little naive, but I was late to play a game called Red Dead Redemption 2, and one of the improvements you can make to ammunition is to split the rounds with a knife. Presumably to create an expansion on impact. Is that possible with modern ammunition, or are they all made with materials where that wouldn't have this effect?


im_n0t_creative

Not an expert but back then they had just lead rounds without a jacket. Lead is soft and malleable where that could work in theory. I'm sure it's way harder than the game makes it look but I think it's possible. Modern ammo has a harder "jacket" usually made of copper around the lead where I don't think that's possible. If you make your own ammo there are bullets with a coating on them that scrapes off very easily making it possible to split them, but I'm positive it fucks up the ballistics of the round so much that it's not worth it. Even if you shoot some home brew bullets with scraped off coating it can cause lead deposits in the barrel that messes with the accuracy of the gun. It's not permanent damage but it's annoying to clean.


InformalCriticism

That's a good point; it would absolutely reduce the effective range with just DIY eyeballing on something designed a certain way, and I hadn't even considered what it would do to the weapon system. Thanks for sharing your thoughts.


MASTODON_ROCKS

Have you considered the need for cowboy shit to do around a campfire though


SordidDreams

Wouldn't messing with the shape of the bullet potentially induce feeding issues in modern guns as well? Not really a problem in a revolver.


ElPwnero

My uncle told me hunters used to cut crosses into their bullets, however they'd be in big trouble if they were caught doing it. So I assume it's possible.


sparks1990

I remember watching a ballistic test where they stabbed the front of a 22lr bullet with a phillips head screw driver and the difference in the ballistic gel was substantial. So yes, it's plausible.


Gradually_Adjusting

I have info about this. A handcrafted version like you're describing could potentially do something like that, but if you look at the one on the bottom right? The mechanism of expansion is purely hydraulic, and only a carefully machined shape will be able to spread that wide. I've fired the 45 version of it, and it creates a 4" diameter X shaped wound channel in gel. Purely hellish carnage. Guns are not nice.


Esmethequeen

this is that 9mm that blows your lungs out of your body 😱


Leathergoose8

Good thing 5.56mm is smaller than 9mm! Can you imagine how much more dangerous an AR chambered in 9mm would be???


Koolaid_Jef

**the Kriss Vector has entered the chat**


Auctoritate

9x39mm has over 50% more mass than 7.62.


LostInAnotherGalaxy

I hate when the bullet takes my lungs out and I have to go to the local constable to pay my lung tax to get them back


vudustockdr

Good job Phillips head


Offsetski

Lots of Reddit moments in these comments


bloomindaedalus

[Except the Magic Bullet which passed through a Governor and a President making 5 wounds without being deforemed at all](https://history-matters.com/essays/frameup/EvenMoreMagical/EvenMoreMagical.htm)


A_Wet_Lettuce

That’s a carcano bullet, which in addition to being FAR HEAVIER than any handgun round is fully metal coated, like the relatively untouched FMJ round


tattoo2006

HST has been my To-Go for CC for years now.


[deleted]

[удалено]


Automatic_Debate_379

Maximum penetrater!


pianite

Could anyone say what makes each of these different and what they are meant for?


gslavik

Much like a car, different makers make their own models, but they all have similar design goals. Hollow points are generally intended for soft targets. Self defense and maybe hunting (although I doubt there is much hunting with 9mm specifically). Hollow point rounds are designed to not over penetrate the target. Full metal jacket (upper right) are mainly use for recreational/target shooting (due to their low price) and military use (due to Hague Convention of 1899 banning expanding ammunition).


AccountThatNeverLies

Besides the expansion that someone already explained to you some of this are also loaded at a higher pressure than others, so the projectile has more mass. So for example the Critical Duty or HST ones still have enough energy after going through something like a car door or glass to hit a human and expand, while others will not work as intended if they go through thick layers of clothing or materials. The +P (higher pressure) ones also have more recoil so you will be less accurate with them. You may still want the higher pressure ones for example on a gun with a shorter barrel which you would only use at very close range to get back the velocity you would loose because of the shorter barrel.


Punisher2K

Xtreme Penetrator was my nickname in high school


Asmewithoutpolitics

Cuz you penetrated yourself so much?


0vindicator1

I was going to say something similar to what they said, but I'm glad they took the bullet for me.


myersjw

This thread went about exactly as I assumed it would


Any_Mulberry_2435

You could replace the bullets with dildos and the names would still be believable


CossaKl95

Once again, whenever there’s a gun post there’s always the absolute stupidest people coming out of the woodwork who exclusively watch mainstream media and think they’re a firearms expert.


LadybirdBeetlejuice

Wouldn’t the lead ones have a bunch of fragments along with the main part that’s pictured?


Bloorajah

Why do they name bullets so they sound like sex toys? *maximum expansion* *xtreme penetrator*


Frontliner76

Which one this the 9mm that blows the lung out of the body!!?


the_river_nihil

You're thinking of the Gold Star 37mm Eviscerator. It's a bullet the size of a film canister with a precision machined tungsten flat-tip and core with corrugated beryllium copper multilayer jacketing that expands to grip the lung forcing it out of the exit wound. It can only be fired from an anchored mount, freehanding it would dislocate your shoulder. Also available with a PETN high explosive payload to disable both lungs at the same time once a secondary primer is compressed by the expansion at about 3" of penetration. Just ask for the Gold Star 37mm HE Maximum Defense Lung Evaporators.


teryret

That is not what a fired fmj looks like. I mean, sure, it looks like that briefly, but then it hits something and then doesn't look at all like that. Source: not a moron and have fired fmj before.


RobertOfHouseSaget

Idk man, if they just shot it at ballistic gel I think it would retain its shape. Sure, it deforms if you shoot a steel target or a tree or something. But I bet with ballistic gel it would still look unfired. Just my hunch without any research.


sparks1990

You're correct. It's just that this one is a pulled bullet. You can tell from the complete lack of rifling marks on the sides.


[deleted]

which one blows the lungs clear out your back?


Hanginon

None of them.