T O P
camzipod

Boy our world could really use Mr. Sagan today. He was such a brilliant and relatively easy to understand man of science.


BeigeListed

I got to meet him once when I was a kid. He was the Michael Jordan of science.


camzipod

That’s awesome!


scorekeeper12

He was also skeptical of “settled science” and a man who’s mind was open to learning something new.


SmokeyMacPott

I miss Carl Sagan so much, so much that I'm going to post the pale blue dot, if you don't know what the pale blue dot is, please read / look. https://imgur.com/gallery/HTxsw "From this distant vantage point, the Earth might not seem of any particular interest. But for us, it's different. Consider again that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar", every "supreme leader", every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam. The Earth is a very small stage in a vast cosmic arena. Think of the rivers of blood spilled by all those generals and emperors so that, in glory and triumph, they could become the momentary masters of a fraction of a dot. Think of the endless cruelties visited by the inhabitants of one corner of this pixel on the scarcely distinguishable inhabitants of some other corner, how frequent their misunderstandings, how eager they are to kill one another, how fervent their hatreds. Our posturings, our imagined self-importance, the delusion that we have some privileged position in the Universe, are challenged by this point of pale light. Our planet is a lonely speck in the great enveloping cosmic dark. In our obscurity, in all this vastness, there is no hint that help will come from elsewhere to save us from ourselves. The Earth is the only world known so far to harbor life. There is nowhere else, at least in the near future, to which our species could migrate. Visit, yes. Settle, not yet. Like it or not, for the moment the Earth is where we make our stand. It has been said that astronomy is a humbling and character-building experience. There is perhaps no better demonstration of the folly of human conceits than this distant image of our tiny world. To me, it underscores our responsibility to deal more kindly with one another, and to preserve and cherish"


the_porch_light

But who took that pic 👀


Frankreporter

The team at NASA using the Voyager 1 space probe


SmokeyMacPott

Carl Sagan.


tactaq

he can fly


skrutnizer

As others have said, you can use this method to measure the earth if you assume the earth is round and the sun far away. One of the Greek astronomers had already figured out the sun as some 400 times as far away as the moon (by measuring the tiny difference between a quarter moon and quarter lunar month), and this probably gave Eratosthenes some confidence about the far sun assumption. It's also true that a close sun and flat earth would show the same thing. If you took several measurements at significant distances, though, a round earth and far sun would show a linear relationship between shadow angle and distance along a meridian (i.e. latitude). A flat earth/near sun would not have a linear relationship. If assuming flat/near on a round earth, each measurement would yield a different triangulated height of the sun above the earth.


grigsbie

We can measure astronomical distances of close bodies with radar. For instance, we can shoot a signal at the moon and measure how long it takes to get there and come back. Using this we can extrapolate the data, because we now know how fast these signals travel, to measure how far away the sun is and…. a real shocker, it’s as far away as we’ve always known it to be.


skrutnizer

Arecibo did nice radar work. That collapsed and China now has the biggest single dish radar. To add detail, if you use a flat earth model on a round earth and use Eratosthene's method, measurements close to the equator will yield a sun height which equals the round earth radius (3950 miles). Triangulating at other (round earth) latitudes will yield lower values by a factor of the cosine of the latitude (during equinoxes anyway). If actual shadow measurements are interpreted to mean the sun is 3000 miles away, you can surmise the measurements were done close to a latitude of arccos(3000/3940) = 40 degrees (Columbus? Philadelphia?)


Space-Booties

Arguing with flat earthers is pointless. They’re either in one of two camps. 1- religious, taking their cultish beliefs from the bible. 2- below average IQ and don’t understand math/science in general. Regardless of where they fall they have zero appreciation for science and discovery. It’s just kinda sad. Science and discovery brought man out of the caves to the dark ages and to the moon - yet they deny the basics of reality. You cannot reason with someone who says up is down and down is up - they are unreasonable.


threemoment_3185

There's the 3rd camp. People who don't actually believe the world is flat and are being intentionally provocative/trolling for fun or some other reason. The famous flat earth rocket man who died trying to prove the world is flat actually wasn't a flat earther. After his death, it came out that he was doing it for media publicity and funding as flat earthers would donate to him.


tactaq

damn thats really sad


busted_maracas

I mean not really, he was a grifter.


tactaq

i mean i guess, either way dying for something you don't believe in sounds like it would suck.


busted_maracas

He believed in money, and being a conman. I’m not going to mourn a person like that. He actively spread misinformation & contributed to the current clusterfuck we’re living in for financial gain. I’m not going to weep for a person who knowingly grifted idiots so he could make a quick buck.


tactaq

oh yeah im not gonna be super sad for him, just like damn that must have been a sucky life to live also get fucked.


_a_pastor_of_muppets

I'm not a flat earther, nor am I here to argue. I just want 1 uncut video shot from a craft that leaves the earth and enters orbit.


KirbyDoom

try this one: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlURVCK5ujo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlURVCK5ujo) .... even though it's clearly fake and just what Pelosi and the giant corporation alien-mosquito-head-psychic-babies that talk through your dreams want you to think.


_a_pastor_of_muppets

Thanks! That's the best one I've seen so far. I'm almost convinced, but I'd like to see a better shot. Like, panning from one side of the earth to the other. That was still too stationary. With all the tech we have, why is this the only video that comes close to showing the big picture?


Joseph_HTMP

And then when they spend millions having a camera on a gimble just to keep you happy, you come up with something else that they need to do to "convince" you. Comments like this are just pure goalpost shifting.


_a_pastor_of_muppets

They've spent more on less. Your sarcasm isn't very productive though. You seem miserable. Wanna talk about it?


Joseph_HTMP

That wasn't sarcasm. And I stand by my point - you're just committing the "no true Scotsman" fallacy. Any time anyone presents evidence, you shift the goalposts and ask for something else. And this completely ignores the fact that scientifically, technologically and geopolitically, it is impossible for the space industry and space science to be faked in anything like the way people on this sub are suggesting.


_a_pastor_of_muppets

What's so hard to understand about what I'm asking? A video that shows us leaving earth and in the the same shot, later on, show us the whole earth.


_a_pastor_of_muppets

No. You failed to hit the goalposts and want me to think you delivered. It's sad that you're on this sub saying things like that are impossible. Anything is possible, everything is temporary. Why are you even on thus sub if you're so firm in your "beliefs"?


Joseph_HTMP

>You failed to hit the goalposts and want me to think you delivered. You are drastically misunderstanding the issues with your own argument. >Why are you even on thus sub if you're so firm in your "beliefs"? *This subreddit is about both sharing your theories, and laughing at the stupid ones.* And they aren't "beliefs". It's about understanding how the world functions. "Everything is possible" is not a useful framework to hang your life on.


_a_pastor_of_muppets

You've got your parameters, ethics, or whatever your ego calls it. Enjoy sharing your theories with others who laugh at imagination and wonder, 'cause I don't.


Space-Booties

Ever heard of SpaceX? They live stream their rockets entering orbit every launch. The international space station has footage. It’s literally all there if your curious enough to look.


_a_pastor_of_muppets

Haven't found one uncut shot from earth to space


BeigeListed

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9dfVtaZbuIQ


_a_pastor_of_muppets

I'm talking about going into SPACE and viewing the earth.


Space-Booties

Clearly your biased if it has to be completely “uncut”. You’ve simply created a mental hurdle you have to overcome to accept your own reality.


_a_pastor_of_muppets

I'm talking about going into SPACE and viewing the earth. I haven't seen footage of leaving the earth and seeing the globe from space later in the shot...


woyervunit

They believe nobody with authority would ever lie to them. Talking about it is pointless, because they are thoroughly brainwashed. There is zero chance that space and the moon is not the way it was presented to them. They don’t need evidence to prove it wrong, because they didn’t get evidence to believe it in the first place. It’s just a fairy tale, designed specifically to make us feel small, alone, and unconnected to our creator.


_a_pastor_of_muppets

I don't know much, but if there's 1 thing I'm sure of, it's that I've been lied to. Why would Admiral Byrd make up all of the stuff about Antarctica?


woyervunit

Not sure I believe that story either, but I’m still right there with you. We are being lied to. That’s all I know for sure.


Joseph_HTMP

How do you know this?


Space-Booties

Can you honestly say you’ve tried? https://youtu.be/BuXdtORWrpg


_a_pastor_of_muppets

Can you honestly say you read? Space, not upper atmosphere. Uncut footage, not a montage...


CarbonSlayer72

It did go to space. The video showed it at over 200km. Space is defined as an altitude above 100km.


_a_pastor_of_muppets

Thanks for the clarification. Serious question: do you still understand what I'm asking?


BeigeListed

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KnxvS9XFJnE


_a_pastor_of_muppets

Fish-eye lens... sorry


BeigeListed

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQGjNu6Inak


_a_pastor_of_muppets

Geebus, ANOTHER!


BeigeListed

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XPweRTljgG4


_a_pastor_of_muppets

COME ON!


BeigeListed

Its amusing (and very telling) that you are able to find fault with EVERY...SINGLE...VIDEO that you requested.


woyervunit

He’s not finding fault in every video, he’s just saying that it’s fish eye lens. It’s obvious, unless you believe in concave earth.


BeigeListed

They want a narrow focal length image... looking at a launch from ground to space... that then pans from one coast to the other... In one continuous shot. Because without it, they refuse to disbelieve the idea that the earth - defying all laws of physics - is flat, while every other planet in the universe is sphere shaped.


woyervunit

Just a video from the ground all the way into space would be nice. It would be easy too. Why don’t they do it? They took a gorilla suit and a guitar to the space station… for science! They’re lying. Lol


_a_pastor_of_muppets

Look. Heckle all you want, I don't mind. I have some ethics I live by. You have yours. One of mine is that I only belive to be true that which I've experienced myself, seen with my own eyes. I've never seen the earth from space so I couldn't tell you if is a sphere or not. Knowledge and belief are clearly two separate things. I believe you when you say the earth is a sphere, but I don't know it to be true.


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Duramaxlbz2007

Wait. What do you mean “space travel is religious fiction”?


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Duramaxlbz2007

Bub like bubbles? Howd you know my aquatic porn name? Ok i will bite here. Water over my head?


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Duramaxlbz2007

Thats kinda what i figured. Enjoy the life aquatic my friend. Wish you the best.


BeigeListed

Removed: No personal attacks.


CapnBloodbeard

Yes, rain exists....


Joseph_HTMP

Then millions of people over generations who have worked in the space industry and tangential fields are either lying or have fallen for what would be the largest conspiracy of all time and would had to have been planned out using discoveries before those discoveries were even made. The idea that anyone thinks this is true is astounding to me. Either you're incredibly hard of thinking or you just can't be bothered to work through it because you like being "one of the special ones".


the_porch_light

I’m curious about this physics project


6thReplacementMonkey

Did you learn that during your physics project?


DrWhat2003

That's more like water on your brain causing you to be so openly gullible to such nonsense.


Sir_Woodeh

Ohhh so that's why it rains


therainbowbeat

this stuff hasn't got out into the mainstream yet...so no nobody is going to agree or listen... It shows you when you join a 'conspiracy' group what to expect in 2022...


tactaq

what that space is filled with water?


Joseph_HTMP

>I’m HUGE into science. You're only fooling yourself here, no one else.


Space-Booties

I’m wearing shorts and a Tshirt. What religion do i belong too?


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Space-Booties

I don’t have a religion. That’s for fools. Do you really believe in there being a firmament?


ebond13

Thank you for making my evening.


calombia

Only religion is stubborn enough to make the same mistakes over and over on purpose.


Accomplished_Sun1506

So many ones.


Space-Booties

They live in the firmament.


[deleted]

This goes off the idea that in a flat earth model the sun would be massive, whereas if you had a local sun that was small, you’d still get that effect. Don’t shoot the messenger.


finndego

Even in the time of Eratostanes they knew they they weren't dealing with a near Sun. Aristarchus of Samos, two decades earlier and Eratosthenes himself had made calulations of the distance to the Sun and knew it was not it was not a local Sun.


LOBSI_Pornchai

Standard question for this source that never gets answered. How tall would the pillars have to be for you to see a significant difference in shadow length and be able to measure it consistently?


BeigeListed

Its not how tall the pillar is, its the difference in the angle of the shadows.


LOBSI_Pornchai

But the pillar must be above a certain height to produce a significant difference enough to measure with the relevant instrument that was used. So again, how high minimum would the pillar have to be? Don't avoid the question my friend


BeigeListed

Its not the height of the stick. Its the ANGLE of the shadow between the two sticks. It could be 1 inch. It could be 1 foot. It could be 10 feet tall. It doesnt matter. The shadow cast by that 1inch or 1 foot or 10 foot tall stick, when stuck in the ground at the time of the equinox, would be different than a stick stuck in the ground at a different location on the map at the same exact time. If the earth were flat, both sticks would have the same angle of shadow. But they dont.


LOBSI_Pornchai

On a flat surface the angles would still be different so it's supposed to be the difference between the second stick on a flat plane compared to a stick on a curve? On a flat plane the sun being directly above one of the sticks creates no shadow, and the second one that is on an angle will have shadows. So we should be comparing the two shadows of the sticks that are not exactly below the sun no?


BeigeListed

>On a flat surface the angles would still be different This is incorrect. Dr Sagan performs this experiment in the video you didnt bother to watch. >so it's supposed to be the difference between the second stick on a flat plane compared to a stick on a curve? No. Place a stick in the ground when the sun is directly above it. There will be no shadow. Place a stick in the ground 500 miles away at the exact same time and measure the shadow. It will be completely different than the first stick. Reason: the earth is curved. [This illustration shows a portion of the globe showing a part of the African continent. The sunbeams shown as two rays hitting the ground at Syene and Alexandria. Angle of sunbeam and the gnomons \(vertical pole\) is shown at Alexandria, which allowed Eratosthenes’ estimates of radius and circumference of Earth.](https://imgur.com/a/pydaGi0)


finndego

In the actual experiment there was only one pillar.Syene was on the Tropic of Cancer and it was known that on the solstice that the Sun shone on the bottom of a well at noon. He took his measurement when the Sun was at it's highest on the same day in Alexandria and then got a surveyor to measure the distance between the two. Once he had that he could complete his calculation.


LOBSI_Pornchai

Ok so how heigh minimum would the pillar have to be to produce a measurable difference. Don't avoid the question my friend.


Bad_Moon-Rising

Any length it doesn’t matter


finndego

The length doesnt matter as the angle would remain the same however long it is. Note: I will correct one thing I mentioned. He didnt even use one pillar nevermind two. He used his knowlegde of the aforementioned well in Syene and a staff for his measure in Alexandria. Not sure why you think I would avoid the question as not only do I understand very well how it worked but Im also emboldened because we've known for a very long time that he was correct.


LOBSI_Pornchai

It's not about if he was correct or not. Any child can accidentally have a correct idea. The question is if this experiment really makes sense, and to me it does not make sense. Even if the experiment makes no sense, that does not say anything about the earth etc. I simply don't understand how the shadow thing makes sense and no-one is able to explain it. Sometimes we assume the emperor has clothes because why would they make that up??


finndego

Ok. Fair enough. Try this. Take a piece of paper and draw a circle. Draw a straight line to the center. That is the Sun hitting the well in Syene. (Note: A circle is 360° and Eratosthenes knew this.*) Draw another line +/- 7° along your circle to the left of the straight line. It doesnt have to be exact because it's just for the visual. This is the measurement he got at Alexandria. Important point. Eratosthenes was assuming the Earth was round. The experiment was to try and prove how round it was(he wanted the circumference) but the experiment doesn't work if the world isnt round. Get it? The shadow angle (no shadow at Syene, shadow at Alexandria at the same exact time only works on a round surface). From those numbers he can calculated the circumference. 360÷7= 51 x 800= 41,000 360 = degree 7= degrees difference between Syene and Alexandria 800 = distance between Syene and Alexandria 41,000 = circumference Rewatch the video and see if this explaination helps.


LOBSI_Pornchai

So on a flat plane the difference in angle would have been...?


finndego

That scenario would only work with a Near Sun. Even Eratosthenes in his time knew that he wasnt dealing with a Near Sun. He'd already made some calculations on the distance to the Sun himself as had Aristachus of Samos some 20 years prior. At the actual distance of where the Sun is the angle in Alexandria would be negligable if there was any at all. You can do an experiment yourself at home on your kitchen table. Put 2 items a few feet apart (I used rows of staples) on the table a few feet apart. Turn off all the lights and turn on the light on your phone. Put the light just above one of the items. This is the Sun above Syene on a flat plane. You will see a well defined shadow from the other item(Alexandria). Now lift your light slowly to above your head and you will see the shadow of Alexandria recedes very quickly. If you then stand on a chair it recedes even more and is almost gone. From threre you can imagine if the light source was even just a little bit higher the shadow at Alexandria would be gone completely. This shows how quickly the Near Sun scenario falls apart.The scale is way too small. The actual distance to the Sun is irrelevant as it's not required to complete the calculation. It's just required that it's far enough away, which it is. It's one thing to say that you dont understand how this experiment works. Im happy to try and clarify that for you. If you are trying to debunk it or dispute it because you actually believe in a Flat Earth then please go away and don't waste anymore of my time. Im not entertaining that foolishness.


LOBSI_Pornchai

I don't believe the earth is flat, but i find that a lot of times people leave their critical thinking at the door and assume that x and y must be true and extrapolate from that. Thanks for taking your time, I will review what you wrote and try to get it. To me however it seems something is missing and it creates confusion. I may just not get it of course, but I wont assume that something that does not make sense to me in reality makes sense. I don't like making assumptions and when I try to ask directed questions in a direction that seems to me could clear things up, It is met with fallacies and personal attacks and the questions that seem relevant to me never get answered. So many just believe "experts" but if that was all there was we would not be able to leave any religious thinking/belief structure of the past. Gallileo Galilej was a rebel and I find it extremely hard to believe that the catholic church were protecting the "real" cosmology of earth while burning libraries. It's a big topic, again thanks for the attempt at a thorough response. I just find it kind of ironic that a post about proof about the shape of the earth, provides a proof where assumptions about the shape are being made.


finndego

Again, Eratosthenes was trying to calculate the circumference of the Earth and not if it was round. Pythagoras had already postulated that 250 years earlier. It's just that it does both at the same time. It still proved the Earth is round.


MiggerSlut

Good ole Carl just being a boss


zdayatk

Ancient Greeks were very smart.


Lanky_Juggernaut_380

I follow flat earth for fun, like in a wwe way. From a psychological point of view, I am open to it. I just can't trust any leaders as they constantly lie to the public. I can see them going the distance of CGIing all the space footage and running fake governments just to keep people away from Antarctica. ​ FEers do bring up good points. I've saw things like zooming in on the horizon, them having more cameras on astrionds/ mars than the Moon, the real Flat Earth being on the UN log, there being too many variables for things like comments to reoccur consentently, and all that. The Flat Eathers do have a point on that. I think the main thing really holding the round narrative together at least somewhat for me are satellites and there being a lot of consistency with seasons. If I could trust the government I probably would laugh at FE but when you start seeing how much they are lying, it's just at least a possibility to me because if they can lie, how am I expected to trust some book that's they from them too.


Joseph_HTMP

>If I could trust the government I probably would laugh at FE but when you start seeing how much they are lying, it's just at least a possibility to me because if they can lie, how am I expected to trust some book that's they from them too. *Think* about what you're suggesting. What would have to be true for FE to be a fact. It isn't just "governments are lying", because it isn't just governments who control this stuff. The whole thing would have had to have been invented using technology and discoveries before those technology and discoveries were even developed. We're talking *centuries* before. People have been measuring distances to stars, and the composition of those stars for generations. People have been doing the physics of astronomical bodies for generations. The space industry is *huge,* and the amount of people that would have to be in on the lie runs into the millions over the course of the last 70 years. Why are you people so hard of thinking about this stuff.


CapnBloodbeard

Literally none of what you said is a good point. Flat eathers are the dumbest conspiracists of the lot


Lanky_Juggernaut_380

I wasn't trying to make one. People watch wresting knowing its fake too hehe


CapnBloodbeard

You claimed that FE nutters have good points. Nothing you listed was a good point


NlitendOperativ

lmao "any leaders" so just the stupid lazy people huh


SlangFreak

You can deduce the radius of the earth with a large mountain lake and a trigonometric survey. No need to rely on the influence of a shadowy cabal of elites...


The_runnerup913

The seeming resurgence of flat earth theory only goes to prove my own theory that some conspiracy theories are a coping mechanism to deal with a fundamentally degrading society. People hold this belief because they want to feel smarter than everyone else. That they have a “secret understanding” over everyone else that’s doing better than them. Not because it’s true. Like seriously. The evidence is overwhelming. Get over yourselves


thisgameishardaf

This same experiment will work on the flat earth model. The sun is way closer and smaller in the flat earth model.


BeigeListed

Prove to me that the sun is 3000 miles away.


thisgameishardaf

I never said that it was 3000 miles away I just have an understanding of both the main stream model and the flat earth model. Most people who argue against the flat earth model don’t understand it.


BeigeListed

So prove to me that the sun is smaller and closer to the earth than officially stated.


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SlangFreak

Ok, so do you understand Kepler's laws of planetary motion, or what the transit of venus is? If not, you should look into those and you'll find the answer to your first question.


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SlangFreak

Yes, but that doesn't actually "destroy" anything about the models we use to describe reality.


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CapnBloodbeard

Time of day flipping....lmao, amazing No winter weather at night? What, it magically switches to summer at night? Lol


SlangFreak

LOL imagine thinking that orbital mechanics is fiction.


nelorain

You know the earth rotates right?


BeigeListed

We stepping into theological discussions now?


BeigeListed

Alright, how much time you got? Give me YOUR proof first, and I'll give you all the answers you seek. EDIT:Annnnnd crickets.


fjortisar

If I hold my hand up, it's smaller than my hand. Checkmate


CapnBloodbeard

There's No such thing as a flat earth model. Not one that works


thisgameishardaf

It works you just have to add dark matter and dark energy


CapnBloodbeard

Flat earth explains absolutely nothing. Oh, yeah, they come up with BS....apparently 'density' holds us onto the disc or some shit.....no, none of it works.


BeigeListed

Its one big troll. Look at some of the comments here. As soon as someone gets presented with facts, they start misunderstanding the point, trying to deflect to other questions, spouting gibberish technobabble or outright running away from the conversation like a coward little bitch. Its hilarious.


Sir_Woodeh

They don't understand it because the flat earthers themselves don't understand their model. They spend more time contradicting themselves than anything.


woyervunit

Prove that it’s 93 million miles away.


BeigeListed

http://curious.astro.cornell.edu/about-us/41-our-solar-system/the-earth/orbit/87-how-do-you-measure-the-distance-between-earth-and-the-sun-intermediate#:~:text=Since%201961%2C%20we%20have%20been,the%20radar%20echo%20to%20return.


woyervunit

Circular reasoning. Paraphrased: We don’t know how far that thing is, so we use something we do know, like Venus, as a comparison and calculate based on the distance to Venus. How do you know how far Venus is?


BeigeListed

[This explains it.](https://www.exploratorium.edu/venus/question4.html#:~:text=The%20farther%20away%20the%20object,the%20object%20across%20the%20room.) Now lets get back to the original point: Prove to me that the sun is 3000 miles away.


woyervunit

No thanks. You’re not interested in having an actual conversation. Have a nice day.


BeigeListed

Imagine my surprise.


finndego

Even his his day Eratosthenes already knew that he wasnt dealing with a near Sun. Aristarchus of Samos had already done some measurements two decades prior to Eratosthenes. Eratosthenes did some of his own for the hell of it. Both were way out but both knee that the Sun wasn't anywhere near Earth. Irregardless, the experiment works at whatever distance the Sun is so long as the Sun rays are parallel which he knew they were.


snowbirdnerd

Sure, but nothing else works with a close sun. A close sun would also change dramatically in size like the moon does.


grigsbie

We can measure how far away the sun is using radio signals, we don’t have to guess. Sure, I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that this test would “work” if you completely changed it. However, the Sun is where it’s always been and it’s nowhere near the earth. Bonus Debunking: Also, lunar eclipses. The sun can’t be closer to the earth and the moon be the size that it is. Even a home astronomer with a smallish, entry-level telescope can confirm the size of the moon. If circumstances were any different than how the textbooks describe them, we wouldn’t have lunar eclipses.


Sp1keProtein

[the same holds true if the sun were only 3,100 miles away](https://i.postimg.cc/Qt1fLr2q/3100miles.png) IF the sun was 93 million miles away, there's no explanation, at least to me, that explains crepuscular rays


BeigeListed

Do you think the sun is is as far away from the Earth as New York is from Los Angeles?


grigsbie

We can measure how far away the sun is, we don’t have to rely on ancient Greeks or humor Flat Earth theory.


CapnBloodbeard

What does the distance have to do with it?


MickHucknall123

God rays are extremely bizarre and dictate what the sun might be like more than any other sun phenomena that you can observe with the naked eye


finndego

Even his his day Eratosthenes already knew that he wasnt dealing with a near Sun. Aristarchus of Samos had already done some measurements two decades prior to Eratosthenes. Eratosthenes did some of his own for the hell of it. Both were way out but both knee that the Sun wasn't anywhere near Earth. Irregardless, the experiment works at whatever distance the Sun is so long as the Sun rays are parallel which he knew they were.


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SlangFreak

I bet you don't believe in atomic theory because it's jewish physics.


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NlitendOperativ

lmao


TheSeedPhrase

Flat Earth is a psyop to distract from Pizza Gate


BeigeListed

In other words: "Everything is a distraction for the thing I think people should be paying more attention to. "


koebelin

COVID and Ukraine are distractions from Jethro Tull not being in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame.


bnsnnik

Ancient man had all the smarts to come up with the math and experiments to claim the planets shape but couldnt fly high enough to actually prove any of said math and experiments. And even so decided to change the shape anyways. Makes sense.


Sir_Woodeh

No way you just said that and meant it.


bnsnnik

Oh I did. Seems like you’d want to actually confirm something before you change a belief held by most if not all people at the time, which was that the earth was flat. Earth isn’t spinning AND whizzing through space at the same time on some fateful journey bound by luck and chance. Gimme a break. This planet and every other one in this ‘solar system’ would all be rubble by now.


Car_Chasing_Hobo

It's easily confirmed if you don't choose to be blind. Earth is spinning and whizzing through space by sheer luck and there isn't a single evidence that points otherwise. If everyone realized and internalized this, in an ideal world, everyone would be understanding how unique and arbitrary what we call "life" actually is and that's why we must value it above everything else. Humanity is getting there step by step. Please don't slow us down.


Sir_Woodeh

Yeah man or course. They should have just hopped in one of those ancient Greek planes.


finndego

(Some) modern men could hold an an immeasureable amount of information in the palm of their hand and still cant come up with the correct answer. Maths?!?!?


rollercoastervan

Earth is flat


BeigeListed

No its not.


rollercoastervan

How do you know


BeigeListed

Well you see, the first person to determine the size of Earth was Eratosthenes of Cyrene, who produced a surprisingly good measurement using a simple scheme that combined geometrical calculations with physical observations. Eratosthenes had heard from travelers about a well in Syene (now Aswan, Egypt) with an interesting property: at noon on the summer solstice, which occurs about June 21 every year, the sun illuminated the entire bottom of this well, without casting any shadows, indicating that the sun was directly overhead. Eratosthenes then measured the angle of a shadow cast by a stick at noon on the summer solstice in Alexandria, and found it made an angle of about 7.2 degrees, or about 1/50 of a complete circle. He realized that if he knew the distance from Alexandria to Syene, he could easily calculate the circumference of Earth. But in those days it was extremely difficult to determine distance with any accuracy. Some distances between cities were measured by the time it took a camel caravan to travel from one city to the other. But camels have a tendency to wander and to walk at varying speeds. So Eratosthenes hired bematists, professional surveyors trained to walk with equal length steps. They found that Syene lies about 5000 stadia from Alexandria. Eratosthenes then used this to calculate the circumference of the Earth to be about 250,000 stadia. Modern scholars disagree about the length of the stadium used by Eratosthenes. Values between 500 and about 600 feet have been suggested, putting Eratosthenes’ calculated circumference between about 24,000 miles and about 29,000 miles. The Earth is now known to measure about 24,900 miles around the equator, slightly less around the poles. Eratosthenes had made the assumption that the sun was so far away that its rays were essentially parallel, that Alexandria is due north of Syene, and that Syene is exactly on the tropic of cancer. While not exactly correct, these assumptions are good enough to make a quite accurate measurement using Eratosthenes’ method. His basic method is sound, and is even used by schoolchildren around the world today.


Space-Booties

Pretty sure you put in too much effort here. Lol


BeigeListed

Yeah, probably. LOL


Space-Booties

Just know it is appreciated! 😂 I enjoyed your post.


rollercoastervan

So you really don’t know


SlangFreak

You can deduce the radius of the earth with a large mountain lake and trigonometry surveys. In fact, you can figure out the rough non-spherical shape of the earth with just the data from trigonometric surveys. The guy who figured out the distance to stars also came up with that result. Though I expect you don't actually understand math so maybe we're wasting time with your delusions lol


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SmokeyMacPott

Because carl Sagan told me.


DallyGreen

This dude is full of bologna.


BeigeListed

Oh, OK: please feel free to prove Carl Sagan (and Eratosthenes) wrong.


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finndego

Do that. Then lift the light source up above your head and report what happens to the shadow on the far object. Even in a room the shadow will nearly disappear nevermind over 150 million kilometers.


DallyGreen

Naval destroyer ships are able to see 300 miles across the water on a dry day. Would be hard to do with a curve. I wouldn’t say the earth is flat but has characteristics of being a realm. Or the earth is several times larger than we are being told. I’m open to suggestions and ideas. It’s only theories.


BeigeListed

> but has characteristics of being a realm. What exactly does that mean? >Or the earth is several times larger than we are being told. I’m open to suggestions and ideas. It’s only theories. Maybe you should try watching the video.


CapnBloodbeard

300 miles? Got a link? "Being a realm"...wtf does that even mean? "Several times larger"....uh huh...based on....?


Mountain_Act6508

>I’m open to suggestions and ideas. Carl Sagan published hundreds of papers and 20+ books. You should read a few of those.


DallyGreen

I will look into his works and see what’s up. I haven’t heard of him until now or maybe I just don’t realize who he is.


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BeigeListed

Personal attacks are not tolerated in this subreddit.


thesamiad

I agree,there’s no way ancient Greeks could measure the shadow in two places at the exact same time before clocks were invented


real_hungarian

my dude forgot sundials exist


thesamiad

I did!it’s been one of those days 🤣


real_hungarian

no worries lol


cdhz60

I can take a joke, I thought it was funny


Sensitive_River756

Duh, they used Google Earth


_a_pastor_of_muppets

I'm talking about going into SPACE and viewing the earth. Where can I view a video of a craft leaving earth and in the same shot, look back and view the earth?


BeigeListed

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vHWDNrrfhnI


BeigeListed

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zyq5eN9C4Cc


Badphishing

Well there ya have it flat earth people. Your idiotic.


idontknowanymore777

I wonder what flat earthers think of this …


BeigeListed

Read the discussions here. You'll see they have an answer for everything.


HelloweenCapital

Imo Sagan was a misinfo plant. 90% truth to sneak in 10% bullshit.


YourMindIsNotYourOwn

All under the assumption light moves in a straight line.


BeigeListed

Light travels in straight lines primarily due to the fact that light is a wave. However, light can change its path (away from a straight line) when it is incident on certain obstacles. This effect is commonly referred to as diffraction.


MattFromTinder

Pretty sure the round shape, along with other planets was mentioned in the ancient Vedic texts.


DrWhat2003

Fake news. Trumputins claim the earth is flat. They are very special people.


mono9562

So it's roind but stationary because the stars don't move in the sky


tactaq

???