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a microcosm of everything wrong with season 8 - "to be honest I never really cared that much for them, innocent or otherwise" meanwhile in season 3 - "would you stand by if your precious Renly ordered you to kill your father and stand by while thousands of men, woman, and children burned alive? would you have done it?" from season 7 on the characters don't act like themselves anymore. they're just cardboard cutouts that serve the plot rather than being interesting and developing characters. d&d wanted to get their star wars money and ruined game of thrones trying to do it


Yup they were even offered at least 2 more seasons, or for new writers to come in but nope they wanted all the GOT glory and their star wars glory and they ended up with neither. Thats the best part of a really shitty ending to what could've been one of the best series in TV history


Can they just pretend it didn't happen and give us the two extra seasons?


I wish that was a possibility. Remember how they had such a hard time getting Arrested Development back together and when they were finally successful in doing that it wasn’t anywhere near the same? It’s because the cast and writers had moved on, everyone’s careers were launched, and the magic that originally brought them together couldn’t just be re-willed into existence. Same story with GoT. If they were even capable of bringing back a cast of that scale, for two entire seasons, it wouldn’t be the same, everybody has moved on.


Uh I’m sorry but ANUSTART is still one of the best jokes the show ever wrote. The new seasons were pretty solid


All but the last half of the last season, there was something so.... Weird about it. Like, the production was just bizarre - the way it was edited is music was always playing at odd times, I'm not really sure. But I definitely enjoyed a lot of stuff from the newer seasons, especially after they re-edited 4


Season 4 was solid. It wasn’t as funny but it was almost every bit as cleverly constructed and dense as the first three seasons. Season 5 was garbage. I was shocked at how few jokes there were and I hated the slickly produced aesthetic over the messy mockumentary style.


I don't know what people keep going on about GoT was a masterpiece, it's a shame they only had 6 seasons.


5 seasons.


I'll admit that it started getting dodgy around season 6 but it was still salvageable. They could have turned it around still.


Season 5 was torn to absolute pieces when it aired, bad poosy at whatnot. Huge fall from season 4, and I think 6 also had its problems but the final 2 episodes are some of the best I've ever experienced in TV.


Speaking of...The Expanse is in its final season. No let down in quality from 1 to 6. And there are still 2 more books that are not covered.


I could have gotten behind change in character personalities if the seasons leading up to the end had handled their change in a more gradual and believable way the character development was like someone descending down some stairs but they trip, skip a bunch of steps, and crash land hard


That’s the real problem. I can totally see Daenarys becoming a fallen hero and the big bad guy at the end. But that’s the kind of thing you build up over season 8, 9, and 10, not a few episodes in season 8.


Honestly. They should have left game of thrones to another writing team if they were so eager to get after those Disney bucks


> they're just cardboard cutouts that serve the plot Even that would have been fine, or at least understandable, if the plot were in any way worth investing in. They aren’t the original writers of the source material. Many fans could forgive (if they noticed at all) subtle or even large deviations from the established characters. There would be **plenty** of fans defending those changes as character growth or something to that effect… *if* the story made sense, held consistency, provided memorable moments, related meaningful messages, or was even just basically fun to engage with. Instead we got what amounted to a masturbatory JJ Abrams soft reboot of an established property. D&D lost the plot far before they lost the characters. The last two seasons were just meaningless action sequences and (poorly crafted) moments of fan service.


Peter Dinklage is a microcosm of the typical actor in Hollywood.


I see what you did there.


Lol wut? We hated it because it was just straight up awful writing. Didn't white people win in the end, too? Like, didn't Bran become king because he's "broken" and I guess has stories or whatever? I honestly don't remember. I could only roll my eyes so many times before my memory started to get effected.


But there's dragons in it that means none of the plot ever needs to make sense, shut up and enjoy the dragons.


*Eragon has entered the chat.*


Such a shame because the books are good and the film is trash


The movie is the worst adaption i have ever seen. The books are good but the beginning is almost 100% taken from wheel of time


may I draw your attention to the Avatar the Last Airbender live action movie


You may not


As someone that has experienced the Eragon books and their movie and both iterations of ATLA, the live action ATLA is significantly better than the Eragon movie and it was still shit. The Eragon movie was genuinely disgusting and I think the only thing that really compares is the Dragonball live action.


Percy Jackson is in the same ballpark too for bad adaptation. Maybe even worse.


No such thing


There is no live action adaptation of Avatar the Last Airbender. The Earth King has invited you to r/LakeLaogai


They also trashed Artemis Fowl, another of my favorite novels when I was younger.


That's because it was written by a 15 year old boy


>"The books are good" >"Except the parts where they weren't" >"Yeah but he was just 15" I mean sure it's an impressive accomplishment to write a book at 15 almost regardless of the quality, but it feels like a bad defense for a book when the original claim was that they are good. To me they were decent enough middle of the road YA fantasy novels. Not great, not terrible. I just feel like people are exaggarating their quality because they read it when they were teens and less critical of the books and now they are old enough to be nostalgic about them.


I still reread them occasionally. It's a pretty interesting story to go and revisit. Wouldn't call them a masterpiece but definitely worth a read in my opinion.


I agree, if you like the genre they are certainly worth a read, just because they aren't masterpieces doesn't mean they can't be entertaining. Not everything you read can be a masterpiece.


Wheel of times first book is almost 100% reluctant Lord of the rings. That's not exactly a criticism in fantasy.


Yeah… a *lot* of fantasy takes a lot from other fantasy. It’s absurdly common in the genre. With that said though, I’m pretty sure I remember Eragon being a little less subtle about it than most.


Have you read his new book, To sleep in a sea of stars? It was absolutely incredible. Sci-fi space adventure with a little bit of romance.


No no. Bad. Back in the hole. You don’t exist.


I hate that excuse. It's space wizards so plot logic doesn't matter. It has Magic so logic doesn't matter.


Fucking bran being king was infuriating


BuT hEs FuLl Of StOrIeS Jfc, what absolute horseshit. Tyrion's whole speech about stories made me cringe to no end. Like, how tf is that a Game of Thrones episode?


Seeing as how he didn’t even appear in season 5, I’d say he had fewer stories than literally all the other candidates.


100% agreed. And is it just me, or did that speech about the "importance of stories" just feel like the writers inserting their own sense of self-impotance into the show?


The battle of winter fell had so much plot armour it was horrific. No agreeing with the way it was written but if they had to do it like that at least kill a good chunk of people.


Right??? God, and the tactics they used for defending against the seige were just obvious horseshit. Everyone should be dead and in the night kings army, and no one can convince me otherwise.


have a fortified castle Enemy has superior numbers Sortie out of the castle to fight them in open field


And make sure you put you troops in front of the trenches.


Yep. It was the blandest of endings. A bad mix of terrible action films and bad fanfic desperately trying to be clever.


*affected But yes, the "pretty white people" won, including him. That take is just ridiculous.


I choose to believe the ending was so bad it affected the language part of their brain too.


Arya literally sets into sunset.


She Magellaned herself


>Didn't white people win in the end, too? how many non-white people got a happy end if even an end at all?


How many non white people were in the show? 3?


Exactly Grey Worm was basically told to hush-up and his opinion didn't really matter.


Didn't he and the Unsullied also all sail off to Naath, too? The island that was established as horrifically killing anyone not native?


Yup. Maybe that was supposed to be a happy ending and writers forgot about the disease that kills everyone that goes there? Who knows.


Yeah exactly. plus the whole "bran the broken" thing seemed really ableist... If we're gonna make a point about "the pretty white people" and privilege the end they went with was still problematic.


Right? Like, they couldn't go with "Bran the Wise", or "Bran the All-Knowing", or "Bran the 3-eyed raven"?? They had to go with "Bran the Broken", as though the most significant thing about him was that his legs didn't work.


I think Jon Snow literally walked off into the sunset when he rejoined with the Wildlings. Sansa Stark is the Queen of the North. If this is a true quote, Peter Dinklage is wack for that. Taking a ultra-woke approach to the fans.


It was literally "Shit we forgot to write an ending and it's due in the morning uhhhh wrap it up"


"Quick, D, subvert their expectations." "You got it, D."


"What if... you know, killing a major character is losing it's impact, maybe we could try something more radical" "Like what?" "We're going to kill *the franchise*"


If anything I think I hated the ending because it **was** basically just people riding off into the sunset. No wrap up of all the many intricate storylines No twists No new information Just “they won easily”


Yeah, I normally love Peter Dinklage but this is unbearably pretentious and stupid. The rushed writing and decline of any depth of character ruined the show.


Why does it make me sad to think that Peter Dinklage might be as vapid as other actors?


If you really, really like an artist…. Often the safest thing to preserve the ability to like them is to never, ever listen to them outside of their art.


I watched a few Henry Cavill interviews yesterday after finishing up The Witcher and I must say the fella seems pretty likeable.


Emilia Clarke comes across very well in interviews.


I love her eyebrow game


Henry breaks every known law of the universe, we just accept it now


You mean the hot talented down to earth super nerd dnd player? Henry Cavill is Satan here to seduce us all, and God damn am I letting him


That’s the one


It’s like he’s superhuman…like a super guy ya know?


And in the bedroom he's a Supper man


Cavil is awesome


Another important thing to know in life is that even if you despise an artist you can still like and enjoy their art


said every morrissey fan, ever


Reading his bio has been one of my biggest regrets, the man is so painfully unsympathetic.


Me after reading the latest Morrissey antics: Heaven knows I'm miserable now.


Oh, his music didn’t make you miserable before?


Who is that and what did they do?


He was the lead singer of The Smiths and also recorded as a solo artist. He's just a bit of a dick.


Lead singer of the Smiths. Associates himself with racist political parties and continually has revolting hot takes.


Lead singer of the Smiths. Known for their leftwing position and fanbase, but since then he has openly supported a right wing political party, is critical of Metoo, and is vegan. Famously stopping a concert performance because someone was eating bacon.


"Hey, hey, stop the music! Some fucking weirdo is eating bacon at a concert! Why did you bring bacon to a live performance sir?"


Imagine how livid he would be if someone started building a kindling fire in the middle of his concert to roast a freshly hunted wild boar.


Personally I draw the line at like jerky or some beef sticks, who's got time for pocket bacon? Actually scratch that. People who don't have time for bacon have pocket bacon. "What am I supposed to do, just *sit* here and eat this bacon? We're burning daylight here!"


I'll take my eggs scrambled and dumped in my pockets. And make it snappy.


>is vegan Why does that matter? >Famously stopping a concert performance because someone was eating bacon. O


Wildly racist asshole


Hello from people who enjoy Roman Polanski's movies. :(


Or lovecraft.


Sometimes you need to make a distinction between the art and the artist, but it is also so hard to seperate them. People saying Ignition Remix is still fire and they're going to play it regardless, but every stream in this day and age generates income which went to defending child sexual abuse. It's not just an empty void if you help provide a platform and legitimize an artists opinion with support. It's tricky of course and I am still working it out myself, but I am not as comfortable seperating the art from the artist as I used to be.


Well said and reminder that Chris Brown can get fucked.


Unless it's the singer of Lostprophets. Sorry, can't separate art from paying for sex with a toddler.


I don't know if this is important so much a cognitive dissonance. Kanye might be a genius (people constantly tell me so, Bowie levels of inspiration for the whole genre) but the dude is clearly cracked and unbelievably narcissistic, and I wish he wasn't constantly validated.


That’s what I do


smart, smart.


OP cheery-picked a partial quote. Immediately after that, Dinklage says he's joking and gives a different answer.


Not surprising tbh. Iircc there was a compilation of clips from the actors,including Peter being asked what they thought about season 8 and they were all pretty uncomfortably trying to avoid saying it’s shit. [ah found it ](https://youtu.be/EA7UQOYskas). Peter himself brings up how dumb it was that the dead people were coming back to life yet the women and children were stored with the dead people that were all coming to life… then at the end he sarcastically says that the season was brilliant lmao




>**Interviewer: I think some people really did want a happily-ever-after ending, even though “Game of Thrones” told us it was not that show from the very beginning.** >They wanted the pretty white people to ride off into the sunset together. By the way, it’s fiction. There’s dragons in it. Move on. [Laughs] No, but the show subverts what you think, and that’s what I love about it. Yeah, it was called “Game of Thrones,” but at the end, the whole dialogue when people would approach me on the street was, “Who’s going to be on the throne?” I don’t know why that was their takeaway because the show really was more than that. https://www.nytimes.com/2021/12/22/movies/peter-dinklage-cyrano.html


So he basically made fun of such argument and then avoided answering how shit the ending was. Pretty diplomatic


Unsurprising. It's not like there's a super important reason for people to know what he really thinks about it. And he knows that. Series didn't end on a high note, big friggen' deal. So he gave an answer and moved on. It would be naive to not have expected an answer like this.


Which is fair enough. No reason for him to be burning bridges if he doesn't want to.


#S U B V E R T# That word has lost all functional meaning and feels like a slur


Stop being such a subvert


Always try to avoid finding out what your favourite actors are like in real life, very rarely anything but disappointing.


Or at least remember that they've got three layers of roles. The one they play on screen, the persona they use in interviews, and the person they are in private that you'll likely never meet. Not to say that having a positive public persona is not a good thing or that there might not be a genuinely nice person behind it - but you'll never know for sure.


By the way, his clever character was fiction. There’s dragons in it.


I feel like it's probably less him being vapid and more him taking people hating the ending personally.


When someone reaches such heights of success you expect them to grown as a person, but often they fall short of your expectations


Never meet your heroes.


Wait didnt the white people win in game of thrones?


Plus all of the remaining people of color turned out to be evil and blind supporters of a character they framed as a Nazi in the last episode lol. If Peter Dinklage wants to discuss how GoT treated race and ethnicity, then that ain't it, chief.




Right? You’d think Grey Worm and Missandei had come out on top and the Dothraki weren’t wiped out.


This doesn't even touch on the fact that Grey worm and Misandrei are both half white as well. They don't have any main characters that aren't atleast half white.


Nobody knows. We couldn't see because they forgot to light the last episode!


Who else even is there like almost every main character except those interacting with Danny's plot are white. Plus I guess maybe Dorne.


I honestly wanted the Night King to win and instead of pretty white people riding off into the sunset I wanted the ending scene to be all the main characters turned into “whites” and their all in a fleet heading to Essos


I mean that's essentially white people riding into the sunset, just colder ...


Doesn't the sun set in the west? They have to get to essos from the east to accomplish that, but it would definitely be a surprise!


It’s wight, it’s an old term for a ghost or supernatural being


And he thinks that everyone cared about who was going to be on the throne? Fucking no. You know what I wanted was a clever and believable (in this fictional world) end to the goddamn story! I wanted twists and plot like I had come to expect, fuckers! I wanted Bran to mindfuck everyone by revealing that he was the three eyed raven AND he was in control of the night kind and his army the whole time! And then they just fucking kill everyone.. or whatever. How fucking metal would that have been?!?! But no, let’s just slap some half assed shitty endings on every storyline and wrap this shit up because everyone’s tired and who cares.. and my dumb ass waited patiently for like 2 years for that, and all I could say was “hey, I don’t care how long it takes as long as they’re getting it sorted out and doing a good job with it.” And then they just give us a few episodes that force everything to a close with no heart at all? Fuck all of you. After GoT and House of Cards, I’m scared to watch any show now until it’s totally over and everyone agrees that they didn’t fuck it all up.. and I sure wouldn’t trust any shit that those D&D fuckers try and start. Sorry for the angry rant. It’s just goddamn ridiculous to have your favorite show get fucked, and then have one of the actors try and earn some woke tokens by saying “well the whites were just mad that they didn’t win in this show”.. fuck you and your dragons


The most important thing for any ending is for it to be satisfying. It doesn't have to be happy, it doesn't have to have to be sad, it just has to be consistent with the themes and world of the story.


This is what made The Wire’s ending so amazing. It was all of those things because they were all consistent to the themes of the show. GOT really just blew a 28-3 lead in the Super Bowl.


Nowhere’s safe for Falcons fans.


“Breaking Bad”, too. One of my favourite finales of all time, but a lot of it wouldn’t be called “happy”.


„Themes are for eighth-grade book reports“ -David Benioff Source: https://grantland.com/features/the-return-hbo-game-thrones/ (Under „4.seasons change“)


That ending would have been 1000x better. No sunset. Nothing happy. Sometimes evil wins.


I would've liked it the way it is, except Jon returns to the wall and stares out over the north contemplating when suddenly - another 3 blows of the horn. Fin.


Welcome to how I have been consuming shows like this since Lost lol. Especially once Fox/FX then netflix started their hardcore cancel good shit shenanigans.


SyFy was even worse, they just ended the shows without giving the writers time to make any kind of ending. Just cut in the middle of the season. Ruined so many good shows.


I've always said this. The GOT style ending would have been that epic long episode of their fight against the night army to have ended with us losing. Something like Jon surviving and riding to the Lannisters only for them to just kill him at the gate. Then the night army overwhelming them. It would have been the perfect way to end it, to show that all the struggles over the iron throne meant nothing in the end and it was all the petty squabbles of humans while their end was coming. Bonus points if the night army episode went exactly the same way except when the king was stabbed he died but the whole army didn't die with him. What a twist that would of been having built up the whole "kill one and they all god down" idea. The whole series was dark as hell, killing off one major character at the end and having a happily ever after with a speech from the little speech man really did not fit with the vibe of everything up until that point.


Or if after having dealt with the Night Army, Westoros is having to deal with mass starvation and freezing to death because the Winter still happens even with the Night King dead and everyone was too busy fighting each other to prepare for winter.


Hell. The ending of the sitcom “Dinosaurs” had more balls and way more dark than the real GoT ending. It ends with an ice age they suggest will kill them all.


The more I watch videos of this series on YouTube, the more I see it was an adult series disguised as a children's one. Very ahead of it's time.


Yup, the one about the mammals is dark af too.


It's 'would have', never 'would of'. Rejoice, for you have been blessed by CouldWouldShouldBot!


Actually, what I think would have been better is when they killed the night king, only the wights that he created would die with him. Not the white walkers and the wights they created. In the end, humanity would still lose the battle because the white walkers would just carry on without the night king. But, they could create new white walkers, so humanity could rise again one day, when all white walkers are destroyed.


Oh god, and that opens up a whole new saga of humanity in hiding Walking Dead style and then a rebuilding society phase too, which means an all new power struggle.




Oh god I had forgotten about House of Cards. So sad to see all that potential just go entirely down the tubes.


*Image Transcription: Text* --- # Peter Dinklage on Why *Game of Thrones* Fans Were 'Angry' Over the Series Finale and Show Ending "They wanted the pretty white people to ride off into the sunset together. By the way, it's fiction. There's dragons in it," said Peter Dinklage --- ^^I'm a human volunteer content transcriber for Reddit and you could be too! [If you'd like more information on what we do and why we do it, click here!](https://www.reddit.com/r/TranscribersOfReddit/wiki/index)


Good human


I will never understand the fervor it's actors and actresses have for defending the writing on the last season of that show. Probably it's to keep their career prospects alive. It's very disappointing to see the denial


Would you go around badmouthing your previous workmates and employers in an industry where it's extremely likely you'll have to work with at least some of them again in the future?


I would but then again that may be why I'm not reaching my full career potential


No, but I also wouldn't lie and insult the fans. You can focus on the positive, like what a good job the actors did, bring up your favourite scenes, etc. I thought Danny hearing that bell and having a silent battle of wills with her own lust for vengeance was an excellent scene. Watching her slowly lose that battle was one of the best moments in the whole show, it was so *raw*. If I had to be diplomatic in his shoes I'd gush about that. I wouldn't go "If you didn't like the king selection you're racist!"


Wow. What a horrible take. So everyone that didn't like the game of thrones shit show ending is a racist? My estimation of him has dropped significantly.


To be fair it’s not like it had far to fall


This is a joke taken out of context and he then explains that he believes people were upset because they didn’t want the show to end. OP didn’t actually read the article or just wants some upvotes.


That’s not why people didn’t like it. People didn’t want breaking bad to end but the finale and final season are amazing. The final game of thrones season is just poorly written.


If it makes you feel any better [Peter didn’t like season 8 either](https://youtu.be/EA7UQOYskas). There’s 2 clips of him in this video. The first clip he’s in, he questions the logic of putting women and children in a crypt while dead people are rising and in the second clip he sarcastically praises the writers’ writing skills


Aye because “they think the show broke up with them and they didn’t know what to do with ems elves on Sunday nights so they were angry” - the whole interview is bad mate and very tone deaf and out of touch


I read the article. There was no joke there. The only thing cut off was "he joked". Well he's not funny. >"We were going off the air and they didn't know what to do with their Sunday nights anymore. They wanted more, so they backlashed about that. We had to end when we did, because what the show was really good at was breaking preconceived notions: Villains became heroes, and heroes became villains." What a fucking asshole. We didn't like it because the ending was liquid shit. Way to shit on his fans.


This probably isn't really what's going on, but it's possible he knows exactly why people were mad and was trying to be diplomatic and not burn professional bridges so he pulled something out of his ass that sounded good in the interview.


I’m not gonna pretend his real take was good either but it’s not the race baiting bullshit presented as his actual opinion. Post could have easily been made with the section you quoted and it’d still be a perfect fit for the sub.


Thank you. You're the first person I've seen in these comments that has questioned the validity of this quote. From what I've seen, dinklage hated Dand D and thought they were terrible writers


You know what deserves to be on r/confidentlyincorrect? The entire Game of Thrones community. They convinced themselves the actors were *secretly* with them, but were forced by their "evil" contracts to put up this face, while slyly leaving clues here and there. They posted clips of Conleth Hill tossing the script at a read, but never include the part where he explained that the bad reviews were a "media conspiracy". They post clips of Emilia Clark saying "best season ever!" sarcastically, but never include the part where she explains that the writers are geniuses and she loved the end of her character. They post interviews of Nikolaj Coster-Waldau being frustrated with the script, but never post the part *in the same interview* where he explains that "once he got it, he loved it and it was perfect". The actors fucking LOVED the final season. And they LOVED D&D because in their minds, D&D was their bread and butter and the reason they got rich and famous. What you think they're suddenly going to turn on a 8+ year relationship of professional and personal gratitude just because the script didn't follow the books that they didn't read or cared about? I mean 95% of the cast never read the books even AFTER THE SHOW TOOK OFF. They don't give a shit. They never gave a shit. This desperate love that people have with the actors is delusional. They were never "on your side". They were on the side of the money, the cast parties, and the career take offs.


In other words: They are doing their jobs. Some are exceptionally good in portraying hidden depths, like that Snape guy, and many of them are probably nice persons, but their take on any show is vastly different. It pays their living after all. Expecting them to be fans of their work is basically the same as expecting waiters and the retail people to be “invested” in the work, not just proividing good service in a polite manner. I mean, I like my job. As a software developer, I even have it kinda nice, as in being able to start anytime long as I’m available between 9 and 15 on most days. But I’m not a fan of my product nor do I wake up with “Chaka! Let’s do the best feature ever!“ in the morning.


Did he actually say that? How idiotic.


He did, but pretty clearly as a joke response to the interviewer. A bad one sure, but he immediately says that not what he thinks. >**Interviewer: I think some people really did want a happily-ever-after ending, even though “Game of Thrones” told us it was not that show from the very beginning.** >They wanted the pretty white people to ride off into the sunset together. By the way, it’s fiction. There’s dragons in it. Move on. [Laughs] No, but the show subverts what you think, and that’s what I love about it. Yeah, it was called “Game of Thrones,” but at the end, the whole dialogue when people would approach me on the street was, “Who’s going to be on the throne?” I don’t know why that was their takeaway because the show really was more than that. https://www.nytimes.com/2021/12/22/movies/peter-dinklage-cyrano.html He could have phrased it better, and is actual answer, that people were upset because they wanted the show to continue because they had become so invested in it, is pretty far off the mark, but he's not seriously calling fans racist.


The first sentence was... eh, a bit careless. He is right with the rest though. It's amazing how blind some people were to the themes of the story, especially since neither show nor books are particularly subtle about them. But then again, even the last couple of seasons ignored the themes *and* did so while also ignoring the fact that a script should be good if possible, so...


>But then again, even the last couple of seasons ignored the themes and did so while also ignoring the fact that a script should be good if possible, so... D&D subverted our expectations, you see. Fans expected decent writing and a not-rushed finale.


This quote is still taken out of context. You gotta read the whole article. Not just this snippet.


Well that's a relief


it kinda gets worse : "We were going off the air and they didn't know what to do with their Sunday nights anymore. They wanted more, so they backlashed about that."


It was always fiction. It always had dragons. But... it didn't always have shitty writing. No one e cares what color folks rode off I to the sunset. Booo... Peter. Boo.


Can someone explain why it was disappointing to someone who has never watched game of thrones?


Basically the first 5 or 6 seasons were based off of great books and had everyone writing huge prediction conspiracy theories on what might happen. The final season just involved everyone asking why or how something happened because it made so little sense. For example, spoilers: a dragon gets sniped out of a sky by a huge arrow. After the dragon falls the ships were revealed to be hiding behind an island that was so big you couldn't see them. But for some reason they could still shoot the dragons. Then the other dragon charges and they can't hit the dragon 20 feet away. A fleet gets destroyed and the only person who makes it back to shore is the pirate leader and he gets to shore right as another character arrives. There was also huge build up for people getting powers and then they never use their powers because the writers didn't have the books to follow anymore. Example: a kid gets the power to see into the past and to control animals. The big climactic battle between the humans and the zombies he uses his powers to view the battle as a crow. He doesn't tell anyone about what he sees, he just looks and is done. Another guy is brought back from the dead and is claimed to be a messiah type of being. They never address that ever again since that is the last part in the most recently released book


And let us not forget the “LOL. I’m Hitler now!” change that had no proper build up. Then Jaime losing any and all growth. The characters just stopped being their own characters after they ran out of books and the runners wanted to just end it to do Star Wars.


>For example, spoilers: a dragon gets sniped out of a sky by a huge arrow. After the dragon falls the ships were revealed to be hiding behind an island that was so big you couldn't see them. But for some reason they could still shoot the dragons. Then the other dragon charges and they can't hit the dragon 20 feet away. They hit it three times, with insane accuracy, from miles away on the high sea. Someone did the math on it and the force needed to shoot the ballista would have ripped the ships apart. It ended up being like 3X more force than a rocket booster. If I remember correctly. Then the next episode, the dragon is just chilling outside the city walls (which are lined with the same ballistas) like half a kilometer away for diplomacy. All Cerci had to do was just fire ballistas at them from the walls, kill the dragon, kill the army. The force alone from firing a giant telephone pole several miles would have obliterated Daenery, her army and the dragon. The inconsistency, the build up, and the lack of pay off was just horrible. GoT joined the very very few series where a final season retroactively made previous seasons worse. Edit; I forgot after they kill the dragon they then use the ballistas to tear apart Danny's fleet of ships. They shredded the ships apart. But an episode or two later they can't be used to just kill Danny when she's right there. Not moving, outside the wall.


They spent the first seasons building a great story and world full of good characters and twists. They spent the last season in a rushed, poorly written borderline nonsensical series of character choices. Some turned from mostly goodish to murder the innocent for no good reason in a short time. They went from well portrayed characters to ignoring the actions of the previous seasons for a “witty” line.


Game of Thrones gained popularity on realism. Everything was gritty, all actions had consequences, anyone could die, all the characters had realistic and relatable motivations, and the villains were seriously dangerous. It ended with the characters becoming morons for the sake of the plot, everyone surviving impossibly dangerous situations, the villains going down super easily, motivations being thrown out the window, and most of the good guys getting happy endings even when they should have faced major consequences for their decisions.


Lindsey Ellis had the best explanation I've seen for the GoT final seasons problems. There are many problems and she does a great job of describing why the show runners made bad choices that didn't do justice to the story that RR Martin started. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BGr0NRx3TKU


It was a show for people who love gory twists. Like having a main character die in season 1, the good guys aren't always good, the bad guys can be relatable, there is mercy, there is wrath, there is love and there is hate. And every character experiences growth through those roots. And then it ended with all of that being fucked to the side and it was the blandest most milk toast ending. Like it was fine to for characters to turn sides but there was build up for it, there was a clear route the characters took towards redemption or damnation every character did. And sometime the morale route took you to damnation (I have a very specific example in mind) basically, Game of Thrones was like watching a sport where it is nothing but Disney Characters and the moment they did a Disney thing they got shot in the face and then it had a Disney ending.


Thanks for the reply. I’m sorry but I have no idea what your trying to say with your example.


Yes. That's why it was terrible. Basically tons of foreplay and the moment the fun is suppose to start, someone barfs.




Yeah. This is the closest to describing what it's like to watch game of thrones I've seen.


I've watched the whole thing twice and I have no idea what he was trying to say with his example either. It was disappointing because the show's hallmark, early on, was a kind of weight/realism that gave it a lot of emotional impact and unpredictability that you don't see in mainstream fantasy much (and also very good writing). Main characters didn't have plot armor, they were killed off in situations where it made sense for them to die, including from infections that started from minor wounds. Where other shows/stories rescue protagonists from unwinnable situations with deus ex machinas, GoT would actually kill them dead. Also, when people traveled across the country, it took many many episodes, so it felt very weighty, like things mattered, choices mattered, every choice in the stories was an actual investment rather than a hand-wave that could make anything happen whenever. In the final two seasons, everyone had fast travel (where in a game, you just click a point on a map and you're there) and ridiculous plot armor (main characters who ABSOLUTELY should have died under the circumstances, never did anymore--as well situations where the story would have been much better if various main characters died, and they didn't). Why did it lose all the weight and (selective) realism, and often very good writing, in the last two seasons? There are theories, but the definite thing is that it took away the reasons people cared so much about what happened in the show and turned it into a fucking cartoon, which felt really insulting to viewers. That's half of why people hated it; the other half is the way major story elements were resolved. Some of them, which had been heavily underlined in early seasons, were literally forgotten/abandoned with no explanation. Others were telegraphed from miles away, so where earlier the unpredictability (anyone can die) was one of the great things about the show, now you knew exactly what was going to happen in terms of main plot points and there was no tension or surprise (once you realized they were going for the most predictable route in everything on their way to the ending). And certain character developments/twists that were the main climactic events of the entire show: the fact that they were made to be so predictable was bad enough, but--it was like the showrunners knew they had to get the characters from A to B (where B is the big conclusion to their arcs), but they had no idea how to do it convincingly after they ran out of books (the author hasn't finished the series, so after season 6, he just told the showrunners the main story ideas and left it to them to execute the actual narrative of how it happens), so they rushed it (the last two seasons had fewer episodes than earlier seasons) AND did a really sloppy shitty job of it. The writing, character development, and dialogue just got so much worse in the last two seasons that it quite seriously felt like fan fiction, like novices with no professional writing experience were extending a story that was written by professionals up to that point.


I see. Seems like Dinklage was completely off. Lol. I didn’t realise he hadn’t finished writing. I’ve had the exact same experience with the anime series Full Metal Alchemist. A room full of writers with big wigs nipping at their heels can never live up to the original writers standards.


It's a show where you can watch the first 85 percent and be really into it. Everything is twisted and leads up to an unknown ending but with high expectations. Simply put, as much as you loved that first 85 percent, (maybe even read the books and discussed it with people and so on...), the way it ended was so bad that you would never ever want to rewatch the show just because you know how bad it ends. There were many great episodes and storyline to go with it, it was going to be a classic, to have the set in Blu ray or DVD or something. After it ended, it dropped off the face if the earth it was so bad.


Imagine a great show or movie. Everything is building up great. And boom in the last 2 minutes every plot line gets tied up in the worst possible way.


Basically, the buildup the show had flopped and the characters all either did a 180, reverted any and all development, or suddenly turned stupid for plot convenience. The show couldn't commit to either a happy ending or tragic one so it did a little of both.


What an idiot


Wait what? I'm not even a GOT fan at all and I understand how disappointing it was.


Yikes. Sounds like the man is very disconnected from the fans. The fact that he brought race into it is a real kicker. So, if we don't like the ending...we're racists? Maybe he was joking, but that is an ugly take if he believes anything close to that is true. His performance was outstanding and now he's ruining that on top of the shitty writing.


It's takes like these, ones that sound exactly like right-wing caricatures of "SJW's," that hurt my brain. It's just like the mouth breathers that were shutting down any criticism of TLJ and Rey's character as misogynistic. It's a horrible, reductionist response to actual valid criticisms that only shows that these idiots haphazardly throwing the race, gender, LGBTQ+, etc. card in people's faces have no respect for the fans of the series, as well as little understanding of the significance of the media being critiqued outside of "it did a woke thing and I like it." It's not even like the ending of the series was particularly "woke," it was just rushed and filled with bullshit that completely disregarded the rest of the series for the sake of empty spectacle. Excuse me for wanting a great story, and expecting similar quality to the rest of the series.


I thought Peter Dinklage was smarter, like Tyrion-sp?, but apparently he’s more like the douchey dwarf he plays in Elf.


Well he definitely didn't read the books.