T O P

A bad sign for America: 17 states are banding together to reject Democracy.

A bad sign for America: 17 states are banding together to reject Democracy.

Walrus_Booty

The Tea Party shifted the legislative towards this weird economically libertarian socially Christian fundamentalist chimera. Obama and Bush usurped powers to the executive to such a degree that many of the Founding Fathers would already be sharpening their muskets. Now it's the judiciary's turn. They're just testing the waters, to see if Trump stacked SCOTUS sufficiently to break it in their favour. Even if this fails, which it probably will, this has now become a precedent for every presidential election to come. It only has to work once and the election process is permanently crippled. Unless Democrats grow a pair and actually fight back instead of their usual 'reach-around the aisle'.


drot525

Muskets need sharpening?


merikariu

I think the word that was needed was "bayonets."


neutral_curiosity

obviously. what does more damage, a ball or a sharp spike?!? edit: i was high and now realize this doesn't make sense the way i thought it did


kieplangdu

was,?


whataweirdguy

I thought it was a beautiful metaphor


kieplangdu

sharper muskets are more accurate. don't you know?


hippydipster

sharpened musket = rifle


UltraZeke

There is one way this can be positive. If the USC agrees to hear it just so they can make a ruling that basically says that this is not a valid way to address the issues, therefore setting precedent for the future. If it is simply not heard, then a future USC could theoretically hear the case and give the petitioner what they want


ghytghytghytiinbv

'Reach-around' the aile. [hehehe hehehe](https://youtu.be/A6j4ZClZIyY)


TrashcanMan4512

Toss me some salad with that...


markodochartaigh1

rethuglicans: "Good people, both sides". Corporate Democrats: "See, the Republicans will work with us!". Smh


wemakeourownfuture

There are Puppets and there are Puppeteers. The Dems are Puppets along with the Reds. We have to cut the strings.


1-OhBelow

Lol at "reach-around" the aisle thats a good one


Samula1985

If Biden gets in he will stack the court so next time this happens the Dems have advantage. I don't have a stake in the election but I've been watching from abroad and it's so clear there has been fuckery. I think it's hilarious to be honest. The CIA have been doing this everywhere around the world for longer than I have been alive. I think people are willfully ignorant depending on what outcome they desire.


broglesby74

I disagree but it doesn't matter this cycle. You cannot throw out millions of votes without absolute proof. There isn't enough to do such a thing. Did the Dems focus their efforts in certain battleground cities in battleground states? Yes they did but show me where they broke election law. I'll wait.


Samula1985

RemindMe! 2 weeks


broglesby74

If it happens, God save America. We are lost.


Samula1985

Cute, but you guys are already lost. Edit: I'm Australian silly


broglesby74

No you idiot, we all lost. I'm no liberal, im an American which you have lost what that means. You just sat on your damn hands and helped a coup you simple minded fool.


Aggravating-Owl7091

There has been absolutely no evidence of fuckery. Where is the proof? How many lawsuits need to be thrown out by the Supreme Court? Trumps own Attorney General, William Barr, who is one of the most corrupt pieces of shit that has ever set foot into office and would be on any real election fraud like white on rice has said there was no fraud. The vast majority of Trumps own party is not believing the fraud allegations, either. Maybe it’s time Trumpers wake up and join reality with the rest of us, but it’s easier to just double down than admit you’re wrong.


Samula1985

There are videos


Aggravating-Owl7091

Videos by who? I can make a video right saying Donald Trump diddled me last night. It doesn’t make it true. Also, all 50 states just certified their vote count. There is no voter fraud. There never was. Stop believing a conman, which is all Trump ever was. Is this what Trump voters really believe? That the highest court in the land, many in Trumps own administration and now all 50 states are rigging the election for Joe Biden? It’s time to come to terms that you have been tricked. I wish you the best.


markodochartaigh1

USAian here, with an unpopular cOnSPiRaCy theory. Do you think that it is possible that our oiligarchs couldn't stomach another tRump term (probably because having a loose cannon on deck is more dangerous to their power, not because they are in any way anti-authoritarian) so they didn't rig the presidential vote count; however, because they want to edge the House closer to rethuglican control, they did rig a few House races?


joshuaism

Of course. Just like they are pushing the dumbest AG in the states to bring this lawsuit they don't want to win. Too bad republican voters are too stupid to figure it out and punish their incompetent leaders for it.


markodochartaigh1

Well, about 80% of the rank and file republicans are authoritarians. Intelligence has nothing to do with it in their case because when you are an authoritarian follower you subordinate your intelligence to your beliefs.


The_Nick_OfTime

\*when\* biden takes office he is not going to stack the courts. for one theres almost zero chance democrats retake the senate and i honestly dont think he was ever for it in the first place.


Samula1985

Cool opinion bro. I don't think Joe is making the decisions.


The_Nick_OfTime

I mean since you said "if biden gets in he will stack the courts" you could have fooled me.


ThrowbackPie

uhhh what? You got *upvotes* for this conspiracy theory bullshit?


Illumixis

Are you one of those people that walk around denying reality and use public ridicule to attempt to emotionally redirect the conversation to ultimately irrelevant and meaningless topics? I never thought I'd see one actually out in subs.


ThrowbackPie

> it's so clear there has been fuckery > > The CIA have been doing this everywhere If you're taking this seriously you should consider seeking professional help.


los-gokillas

Are you saying you don't think the CIA has been fucking with elections all around the world for longer than that guy has been alive? Because if you are, I suggest you look into the CIA and south east asia, south america, central america, and the middle east


[deleted]

[удалено]


los-gokillas

Really? What about when they sold crack in impoverished areas of the country to fund guerilla wars in central america? What about when they coordinate with hollywood to make sure that they get shown as the good guys? What about when someone killed Gary webb, an american journalist in america, for laying out what the cia had been doing? What about when they were grabbing Americans and force-feeding them lsd to see if they could brainwash people?


Samula1985

Jesus mate, go read a fucking book. If you think the CIA aren't doing this everything you must live under a rock. lol


OpiosRex

Do you live under a rock???? Look at venezuela dumb nuts. Your seriously telling someone to get precessional help because they listed a conspiracy with mountains of evidence that will back it.


--Reddit-Username2--

Fuck man, we did it to FRANCE.


OpiosRex

So happy people are waking up to what really happens behind the scenes.


xxoites

The Supreme Court can either tell them, "No!" or any state in the country will be able to sue any other state to force them to hold elections they way *it* wants them too. Sorry. I just gave away the ending.


dm_cocktails

Yeah I suspect the Supreme Court is going to shoot this down, but the fact that it is happening at all shows what a sad state our social fabric is in. The people pushing this aren't just going to go away quietly when Biden is swarn into office.


xxoites

I have visions of random acts of extreme violence in our future.


throwaway20348329

These are the (intellectual) descendants of the same people who fought for "states' rights" to own slaves and kept telling us "The South Will Rise Again!" I wouldn't call removal of a self-identifying issue random.


xxoites

Don't look now, but I think they have mutated.


beamish19

The South is too busy experimenting with Coca-Cola and deep fryers


GroundbreakingDeer0

That’s funny, ‘cause my home state of Georgia (y’know, the home of Coca-Cola) just voted blue. We’re actually busy... initiating change. What are you doing that’s noteworthy?


Grey___Goo_MH

Commend you for being a small part of turning Georgia blue Doesn’t change our longterm fate or create lasting change since the Republican of your state and all states can still get away with closing voting locations disrupting democracy with impunity so until charges get filed nothing fundamentally changes sadly Damm do I wish they would get charged under RICO as organized crime among quite a few other parties that branched off them or assist them in laundering money.


beamish19

The current Senate run-off race is between a typical neoliberal “Democrat” and a Republican neo-con. There is a reason why that state is shaped like a urinal


newuser201890

Take it easy, it was blue before and it's still Georgia.


GroundbreakingDeer0

You take it easy. What’s with people wanting you to “take it easy” when they expect you to acquiesce but you don’t? lmao Foh


markodochartaigh1

Oklahoma City wants a word with you.


xxoites

Just in: [Volunteers ‘shaken’ after attempted bombing at Spokane County Democrats headquarters](https://www.spokesman.com/stories/2020/dec/09/police-investigate-bomb-threat-at-labor-union-buil/)


AngusScrimm---------

Whatever they do, they better charge him in state court. Federal charges for terrorism wouldn't matter--Trump will just pardon him.


[deleted]

Another one to lock up forever.


Fiji-Refugee

Shoulda done this in 2000 and gotten it over with.


SaltyPeasant

Of course they will, I'm pretty certain this is ruse to show Trump's dipshits that they're still "fighting" so the party doesn't split. They push any further and the Military gets involved, doubt they'll want to put their livelyhoods at stake for fucking Trump lol.


collapse1122

i wonder what happens if more states join or electors refuse to cast the vote for biden


ocoronga

Electors are selected by the party that won the state. There's no chance of the result being overturned this way.


_rihter

Donald Trump is going to win and there will be a civil war.


therubberstudios

Notice how though there has been no violent outbursts from trump supporters after the election? It’s the Democrats that are rabid morons starting with that bullshit BLM rioting. It’s pretty obvious to anyone watching from outside the US.


CazSimon

I'm outside the US and this sounds like something a Republican in the US would say.


BeaconFae

There are literally bomb threats against Secretaries of State and against Democratic headquarters. It’s telling that ignore state sanctioned executions by cops as either not violent or not the start of protests.


LTNBFU

Remindme! 30 days "message"


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cavemancuisine

In from outside the US and both sides look just as Bat shit crazy as each other.


bastardlessword

It is so obvious, yet you get downvoted. Reddit, mostly leaned to the left, think it's the republicans that are causing this. They don't realize the left's hate and division propaganda has been active for years and now the consequences are showing. Hate is always reciprocated, now the US will have to deal with all the hate that has been built up during all these years.


tegestologist

You are so wrong that you must be a Russian bot.


fleduvius

I wonder how many state legislators don’t care if they enable a headlong slide into authoritarianism. My understanding is most people involved in the nuts and bolts administration of our republic care deeply about the institutions and the processes that sustain it. If they stop caring, it’s over. Nothing left but the ammo box. And good luck with that. A rifle, no matter how fancy or expensive, won’t stand against trained combat troops.


Bongus_the_first

Modified civilian drones are now the standard for fighting asymmetric wars against modern military powers


mg_ridgeview

Then those 17 states can leave the Union, form their own country and put Trump in charge.


[deleted]

I'd like to see how they get along without their federal tax payments - propped up by two of the bluest states in the country. We don't need the south. The south needs us.


[deleted]

Secession is hard. I bet they're just going to run a sham confederacy- like the sham 'hearings' , but a whole shadow goverment*( non-binding, for entertainment purposes only) from Mar-A-Lago, with Trump as 'President in Exile' leading his cult on Parler after Twitter bans him. Guarded by 'militia' groups, funded by Russian gangsters and MAGA suckers as usual. DeSantis will shield Trump, and all those loyal to Trumpism from extradition for state crimes in NY or elsewhere.


[deleted]

I’m okay with the west coast splitting off and having the 5th or 4th largest economy in the world


blvz3ku

And then leaving the shithole, Republican welfare states to suffer. If conservative policy works, they should have no problem without California and NY subsidizing them right?


Cinci_Socialist

Yeah, get ready for that to trigger a massive refugee crisis


[deleted]

We would just close the borders


Cinci_Socialist

You seem to have some difficulty understanding how a refugee crisis works


[deleted]

Or we would gun them down at the borders, there are no other options when 10 million people try to mob your country and there’s no room


[deleted]

[удалено]


[deleted]

I’m not saying this would be morally correct, I’m just saying it’s what would happen bro


Cinci_Socialist

Sorry boss I've been going through some shit lately I didn't mean nothing


markodochartaigh1

And keep out those who are effectively resistance fighters, fighting in red states to turn them blue.


subscribemenot

I’m glad there’s talk of secession finally. It’s reached a critical mass and the maga team will just not quit the crazy


Defiant_Country

As a northern Californian I laugh nothing would make me happier then stopping blue California from taking my water when we seceded shortly after your succession.


[deleted]

Have your state of Jefferson I don’t really care, you would be offered tons of money by the cities and you would take it at the right price


AdAlternative6041

Lol, no. The west coast only has that huge economy because it belongs to the USA. As a separate country, they west coast would have to invest vast amounts of money just in keeping their new borders secure, say goodbye to free interstate trade and basically be bullied by the rest of the world since all trade agreements are void now. See what happens when Hollywood can no longer sell movies to the rest of the USA. Or Facebook/google/apple lose the might of the US government protecting them. China will just copy everything from Apple and wtf are they going to do about it? Sue them where exactly?


SumWon

Facebook is currently getting broken up by the FTC and Google is being sued by the Justice Department. They might not mind as much as you think.


ctophermh89

Not to mention California is a huge agriculture powerhouse.


AdAlternative6041

Then still depend on water being brought from other states. That's going to be cut the moment California becomes a new country.


BeaconFae

California and Colorado, both Dem states, will come to a trade agreement. Idaho, full of white supremacist hillbillies, will believe their own bullshit about self sufficiency and soon learn they are too broke and lazy to even keep their roads paved. Montana will be cut off of oil subsidies to keep their economy artificially afloat. The Dakotas will no longer have blue state funds to keep agriculture insured. Red state separatists are wrong on science, on morals, on their promotion of racism, on climate change, on economics, and they’re wrong how on how they think breaking the Union will go for them.


PavelN145

Gonna be kinda hard to trade between Colorado and California when they have to pass through Red states like Utah


BeaconFae

Denver is more economically connected to New Mexico than to Utah. Train routes can depart from Denver, hit Sante Fe, then Phoenix, then LA. Whereas going through Utah requires going over the Rockies, hits SLC, and then isn’t close to any other metropolitan areas. For economics and physics reasons, more trade is likely to be routed through NM and AZ on its way to CA. Utah isn’t vital in this scenario.


PavelN145

Arizona is one of the states that are backing the lawsuit tho so it would still not be very easy to go through Arizona


goharvorgohome

Hopefully STL will secede from Missouri if that happens. Fuck this state.


lordjake307

Completely agree. I don’t want to be associated with the rest of the state


RattlemeSpooks

I wanna know who within the missouri state government is responsible. I want names.


daddytorgo

Yes, they could even call it a confederation.


Appaguchee

If one looks at the binary (yes it'll work/no it won't) situation of this political debacle, then the odds *VERY* highly favor in the negative outcome. I.e. The Supreme Court will emphatically say "no, this isn't how America and her Constitution works." And the story is over. But, if one were to look at the underlying issues and *behavior* behind this legal issue these states are....representing symbolically/methaphorically, then the darker implications become much for ominous and foreboding. So, if in fact the SC shuts down this lawsuit, America still walks away with an understanding that here are individuals, well-educated, respectable, leaders within their states and communities, using their credentials, expertise, and connections...to engage in one of the most ridiculous, asinine, and societally disruptive and agitatively political movements to occur within...say...150 years or so. With the backing of a sizeable portion of the population. In essence, I'm hypothesizing that we Americans are following a rapid repeat of the Antebellum years (pre-Civil War.) Now, anybody with a heartbeat and a desire to naysay me to obscurity will find flaws in the argument I'm making, but they can make their own hypotheses. Anyway, we're seeing states beginning to increase their argument that "my state's results shouldn't be linked to *that* state's results." Or also, "That state is having different results than we are. They're succeeding and we're failing. We should share more of their success, and socialize the losses, as well. *But without us changing anything about what we do.*" These states, and the constituencies behind them...represent some nebulous ideology that either: works on a level *everybody else cannot scientifically, logically, humanistically understand nor agree with,* or else they're done caring, and want to just run their own systems alone, unhindered by the social, political, and judicial "contracts" (systems of cooperation in a federation-organized power status. The US bears some similarities to the EU in this regard. States are truly very akin to small countries in Europe; we definitely have stronger political cohesion.) that come from being "United" States. They just want to do things their way, end of discussion, as they're legally requesting/insisting. This is what the governments of these areas, based on the desires of their citizens. And the leaders of these states, the best and brightest, *seem* to have no problem leading this legal event and its followers into what appears to be a lead-up towards demagoguery, further disruption of inter-state and federal "good-faith" and "proper" interactions, and very definitively toes the line both aggressively and haphazardly (whichever is forgotten easier and faster through media conglomerates) the idea that states should be able to "go their own way." Without "de-programming" of rapid-fed, quick-punch sound bytes from reinforcing media and like-minded group meetings ("echo-chambering,") the frustration and emotional re-inforcing will continue to grow and fester the dissatisfaction of the most emotionally-reactive-yet-intellectually-ignorant-but-unaware (Dunning-Kruger) people. And those kinds of people are already whipping themselves into a frothy frenzy about whatever issues the media tells them. Tl;Dr: The national unrest in the US is at-test, stressed, and not at her best. Of this I attest. But, it's just another page of 2020, I guess.


AngusScrimm---------

They're fools, they're morons, but mostly they're traitors.


markodochartaigh1

"America still walks away with an understanding that here are individuals....to engage in one of the most ridiculous, asinine, and societally disruptive and agitatively political movements to occur." Well, as every authoritarian from a three year old child to seventy year old dick cheney knows, first you push a little to find out strengths and weaknesses, and at least 60 million armed 'Muricans are one of their strengths, then you pull back and wait for your next opportunity. In the US we not only have the Dunning-Kruger effect, but also the Stunning-Cuckoo effect. Also contempt for Democracy is nothing new in the Southern and Western red states. Anyone who grew up as a racial/ethnic/sexual minority and had their eyes open should understand this intuitively. I grew up gay in the reddest part of Texas a half century ago and I have yet to hear a single syllable from tRump that would have been out of place from any of those two-bit tin-horn trumpadóir politicians on the ten inch black and white TV in 1965. And, for the calvinist reich-wing third of 'Muricans, it worked then, it works now, and it will work in the future.


[deleted]

Most of the trump supporters are over 65. We have a decade before most are gone including trump.


LettuceBeSkinnay

That's just not true. I wish it were.


[deleted]

Prove me wrong. [2016 trump voter break down](https://www.quora.com/What-was-the-average-age-of-Trump-voters-in-the-2016-election?share=1)


[deleted]

Trump voters are mostly older and [tufts university data.](https://circle.tufts.edu/latest-research/election-week-2020#vote-choice-by-age-and-by-race-and-ethnicity)


LettuceBeSkinnay

That shows 51% for 65+, 51% for 45-64, 43% for 30-44, and 36% for 18-29 \[for Trump\].


[deleted]

Like I said, mostly older.


Killer_The_Cat

but there's more young people than old people in the us. There's just as many trump supporters age 18-30 in the US as there are trump supporters over 65; it's just that there's a lot less people in the 'over 65' age bracket than 18-30


[deleted]

That is wrong. A simple google search shows otherwise.


Killer_The_Cat

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/781652762411925558/786452878650769418/unknown.png no?


dm_cocktails

17 states are joining Texas in it's supreme court case to overturn the election results. It seems like a very bad sign for things moving forward, not that I think it will be successful.


SolarisDawn

Let's be real though, like I highly doubt this will work in any shape or form.


youramericanspirit

You assume that “working” here equals “winning the case” and not “delegitimizing the government in the eyes of our idiot supporters so we can control/grift them better”


markodochartaigh1

When you put on shoes that you like but are not sure will fit, first you wiggle your foot back and forth just to see. Then after you have worn them for four years you will be ready to take them out on the field and play the real game in them.


Grey___Goo_MH

Ok then the poorest states can leave then the union can kill them as history repeats itself and the confederacy will lose again.


MrNoobomnenie

You are forgetting that during that time nobody cared about the US. Are you sure that if the new American Civil War will broke out now, other countries would just ignore it? Also, nukes exist, which automatically makes things much more complicated.


drot525

American Civil War has good potential to lead to world war III. What better time for every other nation to kick off it's shit show revenge tour than when we're otherwise occupied?


justanotherreddit456

Why don’t they just secede? Oh that’s right. The coastal blue states taxes pay for their asses.


[deleted]

[удалено]


los-gokillas

Look I'm no fan of texas but they have a pretty decent tech sector again at this point. The state is very favorable because of its taxes, for companies that want to leave california, because of its taxes.


[deleted]

This is infuriating. Those people trying to undermine our democratic republic. They are traitors and seditious. It is a coup attempt. They do not get to forget and move along.


WippleDippleDoo

Kids... this is how divide and conquer works. In reality there is no democracy and everyone who is allowed to be voted for serves the same bankers and corporations.


Human-Lychee8619

I’ve been quite surprised seeing how many people in this sub actually believe in the political system enough to think there’s a side that actually cares about the regular people. Fun fact: they don’t care and they will continue to push their global takeover agenda. The collapse is all being manufactured.


OptimistiCrow

People like Bernie exist, but yeah the US is lacking in party diversity. "They" are just self-absorbed people with money and power on their mind. Not so much an agenda as fucked up people encouraged by a capitalist system that rewards them.


ThrowbackPie

I didn't realise this sub was full of conspiracy whackjobs.


Mushihime64

Conspiracy nutters, enlightened centrists, edgelord nihilists, disgraced academics, people who took too many psychedelics over their lifetime, people who took too many psychedelics about an hour ago... We've got every kind of failure!


beero

Failures no what impending doom looks like.


KittieKollapse

Well I didn't realize this sub wasn't full of full on conspiracy whack jobs since you are here.


WippleDippleDoo

Sadly /r/collapse turned into shit after 50K subs


A-Hater-forlife

Getting overtaken by “enlightened” little shits with blind political loyalty. I barely even come here anymore, the comments are usually either like r/politics or r/conservative, the two most retarded subs


los-gokillas

For real. Like yeah what these states and Republicans are doing is bad. But Dems do the same shit. They cohesively worked to get the people's candidate out of the election, they forced the green party candidate off the ballot in a couple states, and biden is packing his cabinet with corporatists and warmongers


[deleted]

Sure thing tin foil q acolyte. In reality we are a democratic republic, just not functioning to the standard many would like.


WippleDippleDoo

That is a rather cute delusion, woodwhore.


[deleted]

What is deluded? The actual legal definition or the fact our “cuntry” is full of shitheads and incompetents incapable of striving to be better?


wemakeourownfuture

Sounds like someones needs to write a strongly worded letter. That'll show them!


WippleDippleDoo

The reality is that we are living in pseudo-democratic, neo-feudalistic frameworks.


AngusScrimm---------

If I were them, I would be terrified of succeeding. Like no one is going to be JUST A LITTLE BIT FUCKING ENRAGED, yeah, just a wee little bit.


ccktail999

All of this is the result of the poison we let run through the very arteries of America. Allowing slavery in the republic while spouting enlightenment platitudes about all men being equal was a way to keep the planters of the Southern states happy and in the Union. Not hanging the leaders of the Confederacy and not actually reforming its political landscape allowed it to exploit its' deep rooted racism in order for those same people to come back into power. The anti-black racism driven both by justification driven by profit motive and by regressive ideas passed down by our forebears, was (despite what you may have heard) what gave rise to the evangelical movement in America. That movement, allergic to science and reality, masked itself in religion and sought to build an edifice where their ideas went unchallenged, clinging to conspiracy and fantasy because of their unwillingness to be wrong. This bent of conspiracy and paranoia was given an ideal space to root in social media---it thrives on views and not on truth and these people gave lots of views and lots of "engagement" that the machine craved. The poison that was allowed to grow unfettered and never purged has grown into the rotten fruit of attempted voter suppression. Expect more of this in the future.


WippleDippleDoo

> Democracy Good joke. 10/10


Axes4Praxis

The coup attempt continues.


PatriotPrinter

I believe Missouri joined today making it 18. And a Senator came out in favor of the whole thing.


[deleted]

"And a Senator came out.." Lindsay Graham?


AngusScrimm---------

For God's fucking sake, can someone finally get it over with and out this termite to his idiot evangelical voters.


Annette_Oregon

How long before AZ decides to join? We just went blue after eons of being red. Additionally, the [AZ GOP is trying to rally the troops.](https://www.reddit.com/r/collapse/comments/k9d8sp/another_call_to_arms_from_our_elected_officials/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share)


[deleted]

Hey, I’ve seen this one!


[deleted]

Welcome to the mass narcissistic psychosis civilization collapse. Fundamentally it’s the founders of financial system, which has in turn caused a spiritual issue, and now people have lost their minds. Revolutions destroy everything and no one is going to benefit. Tik tok tik tok.


ATXPatient

Paxton is such a tool


wakefulsleep

It might be a good sign, atleast there won't be any illusion on what system this is...


worriedaboutyou55

The Supreme Court already shot down one lawsuit so I doubt this is heard but still concerning. can't wait to tell the maga bots who are holding onto hope because of this lawsuit that there dear leader is done and they might as well go drink the coolaid and give him the rest of thier money as thats the only hope Trump has. Making them waste thier money would be so sweet


[deleted]

>The states supporting the suit [i.e. in addition to Texas], all of which have Republican attorneys general, are Missouri, Alabama, Arkansas, Florida, Indiana, Kansas, Louisiana, Mississippi, Montana, Nebraska, North Dakota, Oklahoma, South Carolina, South Dakota, Tennessee, Utah and West Virginia.


[deleted]

Reminder: the CIA, FBI, and intelligence community allows but killed Fred Hampton for supporting socialism. They'd let the country burn to the ground for right wing ideology.


shiva777

It would be amazing if these states banded together and left the union. Forming their own idiocracy...the remaining states would benefit greatly from losing these dead weights.


Collapsible_

I firmly and comfortably believe Joe Biden is the next president - lemme just get that out there because people like to read post histories. This isn't, by any means, "rejecting Democracy." Either the suit has merit, or it does not. If it does not, then we can expect the Supreme Court to act accordingly. If by some wild twist of fate it *does* have merit, then we can *expect the Supreme Court to act accordingly.* Either path is well within the framework of our system. In fact, I think the concept that you can say, "hey, this is wrong, hold on a second," is absolutely *crucial* to our system. If you or I think it's ridiculous or frivolous is irrelevant - someone would think the same of us if the roles were reversed. There is absolutely no shortage of spaces for hacky, bitchy, damaging partisan bullshit on reddit. I used to think this wasn't one of them, that the "monkeys throwing shit at each other" idea was kind of understood, here. But you don't see anyone worried about the people who, a couple months ago, advised Biden to never concede no matter what... so I guess I was wrong.


neutral_curiosity

trump and the gop have actively supported stochastic terrorism during this whole insane process, not to mention violating various laws and rules. we can't just let people do that without consequence because we think they'll lose the lawsuits. they're also actively harming us with covid denial and refusal of relief. so this "either path" stuff sounds ideologically pure but that isn't the reality we're in with this.


AnywaysDude

> This isn't, by any means, "rejecting Democracy." > Either path is well within the framework of our system. But what if the framework of our system is to reject democracy?


[deleted]

Have an upvote. Great, nuanced comment. Thank you.


Edmodo7

Now make that similar sort of nuanced remark about covid and boy are you gonna get torched. Down vote registered. Nuance knows bounds.


TrashcanMan4512

Wait wut? ... the fuck? ... to be replaced with what, Alien Overlords?


Monsur_Ausuhnom

It's more the more things go to hell, the more irrational it becomes and the more irrationality fuels the fire


[deleted]

From my understanding the main complaint in the case is that the states in question did not follow their own election laws, and relied on courts to make last minute changes in election procedures that were not supported by either state or federal law. As a hypothetical a state court could rule that the polling stations will only be open for five minutes on polling day, then no one else is allowed to vote. A small number of states could do this to tip their election whichever way they wanted, and given the divided nature of federal politics could be enough to swing the whole election. In a scenario like this would the other states need to simply shrug and say whatever?


neutral_curiosity

but they weren't "last minute", and they were changes that expanded voting, not suppressed it. so the argument doesn't hold water.


[deleted]

"Expanding voting" is still changing the procedures, something that is supposedly only possible with legislative change and not judicial order (and election law changes within states still need to be consistent with federal laws). If states feel like they are not required to follow their own election laws things could get really messy in the future.


RareRain749749749

Assuming your characterization of the argument is accurate, Texas comes with unclean hands having made it's own last minute changes like eliminating ballot drop off stations and polling places, disenfranchising a huge swath of registered voters. One cannot come with unclean hands and seek "equity". (Oh, and also see states rights. Yeah, we are not all Texans.)


veliza_raptor

In Pennsylvania, exceptions to in-person voting "were approved by two successive legislative sessions" (in a GOP-controlled legislature in 2019) and signed into law by the governor. [https://www.votespa.com/About-Elections/Pages/Voting-Reforms.aspx](https://www.votespa.com/About-Elections/Pages/Voting-Reforms.aspx) [https://whyy.org/articles/suit-challenges-expansion-of-mail-voting-in-pennsylvania/](https://whyy.org/articles/suit-challenges-expansion-of-mail-voting-in-pennsylvania/) Michigan voters expanded voting access by referendum in 2018 and then the legislature followed suit by passing 2 election laws that were signed by the governor. [https://www.rollcall.com/2018/11/07/three-states-pass-sweeping-voting-rights-expansions/](https://www.rollcall.com/2018/11/07/three-states-pass-sweeping-voting-rights-expansions/) [https://bipartisanpolicy.org/blog/michigan-makes-positive-election-law-changes/](https://bipartisanpolicy.org/blog/michigan-makes-positive-election-law-changes/) The Supreme Court voted against an effort to get Wisconsin to count absentee ballots returned after Election Day for the very reason you stated here, "The Constitution provides that state legislatures — not federal judges, not state judges, not state governors, not other state officials — bear primary responsibility for setting election rules." [https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/politics/elections/2020/10/26/u-s-supreme-court-declines-change-wisconsins-voting-rules/3670662001/](https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/politics/elections/2020/10/26/u-s-supreme-court-declines-change-wisconsins-voting-rules/3670662001/) It's just not the case that the rules were changed by judges.


neutral_curiosity

a pandemic affecting the fundamental nature of voting is not written into any pre-existing laws, therefore accommodations were required. i don't get what's so hard to understand about these circumstances. making voting easier should be a constant goal.


[deleted]

Does anyone here think understanding the truth might be a good idea? If fraud happened , it needs to be presented in court and decided by SCOTUS. I don’t care what your political leanings are, if the truth is not vetted there will be NO public trust of any election.


therubberstudios

4 MORE YEARS!!!


AngusScrimm---------

Make sure to send the clown some cash.


Edmond-the-Great

Whether they are rejecting democracy or protecting it all depends on your perspective.


Dave37

No it doesn't.


RiDgEcReSt_isEW

You mean an awesome sign for America and a bad sign for socialism 😂


c0viD00M

"Never let a crisis go to waste." -- Hillary Clinton


Dave37

> Never let a crisis go to waste. That's from Rahm Emanuel talking about the 2008-2009 financial crisis: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-IVeVSZ7h84


AngusScrimm---------

Oh, I just retched. The words "Rahm Emanuel" will do it every time.


mods_r_whiny_bitches

Well... let's start with misleading title. 17 states are demanding the Supreme Court hear the case on possible election fraud. Isn't that exactly the opposite of your statement? Isn't that "17 states demand transparency and accuracy of election results?" Yeah, thought so. Quit crying. The best outcome is a fair and transparent election... not just one where you like the results.


slipknot_official

The thing is this isnt about transparency, this is straight up about Trump and anyone who backs him trying every possible way to actually take the election. Period. This is so obviously blatant at this point. These people dont give a fuck about free and fair elections. They are convinced Biden somehow pulled 80 million fraudulent strings. The end goal is for Trump to win no matter what. There's could be 300 recounts that o towards Biden, and Trump would still claim fraud and milk his base for $$. As long as they throw it to him, he won't back down. Even after Biden is sworn in after all these lost and rejected cases, he will continue to preach that he won, and the election was stolen from him. ps, I hate Biden and did not vote for him.


AngusScrimm---------

"milk his base for $$..." This is it. Now, if the high court consisted of 9 Clarence Thomases, Trump would be happy to get to stay. But cash from fools is what his *incompecoup* is all about right now.


RATHOLY

*this* close to self-awareness. There was no push for "fairness and transparency" by the current administration in 2016, ostensibly because they were happy with the results. There was no effort over their term to shore up any supposed issues. It's comical that these guys are both totally inept and on top of it, lol


[deleted]

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RATHOLY

You aren't talking to me, you're talking past me. Not a brunch liberal who cried Russia, as much as you seem to enjoy burning strawmen cut it out bud, bad for ya.


Polyarmourous

You can't just call everything a strawman and move on, typical fucking Reddit.


RATHOLY

Ope double response. As of this edit the dude has taken longer to continue the thread than I did when he accused me of bailing, lol


RATHOLY

I didn't go anywhere, I don't call everything a straw man (I have no idea what you are basing that on, and you certainly haven't made any effort to support it), only things which are, like your assertion about "you guys" with the implication that I am part of that group, which by my own lived experience I am not. I didn't crow about the things you claim. What does that make your statement if not a straw man?


TenYearsTenDays

Hi, Polyarmourous. Thanks for contributing. However, your [comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/collapse/comments/ka1kpx/-/gfb137g/) was removed from /r/collapse. > Rule 1: In addition to enforcing Reddit's content policy, we will also remove comments and content that is abusive in nature. You may attack each other's ideas, not each other. Please refer to our [subreddit rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/collapse/about/rules/) for more information. You can [message the mods](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/collapse) if you feel this was in error.


Forthepeople55

Folks there is major fraud that has happened in many swing states - when the news reports are owned basically by one side of the political party what we have is the start of a communistic state that only spews propaganda - if the dems had won fairly no issue but they did not . It is just the large tech industry most news outlets are in the dems pockets probably along with China — the 17 states are just wanting the Supreme Court to look into the fraud — the constitution is the law of our land and it was set up to follow -


AngusScrimm---------

They really did a half-assed job by stealing the top of the ticket, but not taking the senate. I am sure Q knows why. Did you know that Soros is retiring to a private island where Bill Gates will supply him with children! Yeah, and Gates is taking over the New World Order. Whatever you do, don't get the vaccine; it's just an excuse for Bill Gates to put a micro-chip in you!


Zorzarix

Why are these people stuck in the past and still worried about communism. This cold war mentality makes no sense, communism is barely relevant anymore. Unless you want to call it communism whenever the government does a thing


[deleted]

Oh no you’ve got the brain worms


Espumma

you got it the wrong way around. Communist is when government owns the companies. America is where the companies own the government.


dm_cocktails

Please seek mental help. You are completely unhinged if you think anything you just typed is true.


[deleted]

Thank god for these amazing, brave, and patriotic 17 states. Have any of you actually read the lawsuit? You might not believe me, but I went online, and I read the exact section in the Constitution that the lawsuit was talking about. I believe it was Article II Section 1. It basically says that election laws cannot be changed unless going through the legislature, and signed by the governor. But four states didn‘t do that, and just changed the laws anyways, completely ignoring the Constitution. Therefore, those election laws are invalid, and those ballots are invalid. If the Supreme Court rules it unconstitutional (Which it is) then they will decide a remedy for the situation It’s a Hail Mary shot, but its like Josh Allen or Tom Brady throwing out Randy Moss.


[deleted]

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