By - borisbeats
I always figured barbarians in late game were supposed to be like terrorists or insurgents or something.
This is exactly how I think of it. My brother asked me the other week “why are there barbarians so late in the game?” I said, “What would you call ISIS?”
It would be very interesting if late game barbs adopted religion and if they wreaked too much havoc an emergency could be created to condemn that religion. IRL extremists of some religions that doesn’t represent that religion as a whole.
They should've included those ideas with the barb update they did, and instead of adding zombies as a game pack, add pandemics. Literally missed an opportunity here.
When I played the Black Death scenario I thought, "this is super unfun" but if plagues happened once or twice in a normal game it would be awesome and historical.
I still have to play that scenario. Thanks for the reminder.
Someone says something is "super unfun."
Fellow gamers: "ah yes I really *must* play that, thank you for reminding me."
I love it. I'm the same way lol.
ahhhh. civ players. we literally make ourselves take the hardest route out.
Oh yeah, that one was... just death and then more death ☠️
It's a Last of Us Part 2 simulation?
Yep, and migrations (people migrate because of war, climate change, economic reasons, religion reasons etc) Also I miss vassals *sigh* And I think Humankind will be better with the aspect of developing your culture through the ages - instead of picking one civilization at start.
Civ is not great at modelling the very sudden shifts in people, culture, and religion that occured throughout history.
I read somewhere that was the plan but due to COVID they scrapped that and made it zombies
Dumb as hell honestly. You would think that Covid would make people want to play with plagues even more.
Yeah but they might argue what if someone lost someone due to the pandemic
In addition to that, most people play games to escape reality, not sink even deeper into it.
So explain the resurgence that Plague Inc saw during the pandemic, or the release of A Plague Tale: Innocence that did fairly well...
Sure. First of all, plague tale released in 2019, before covid. Secondly, I said most people. There's still plenty of folks that have a morbid fascination with these things or perhaps just cope differently than most. Generally speaking though, people do prefer games to be a form of escapism however.
Ey true, I didn't think of that. This is probably why I would be bad at running a publicly traded company. In my mind if a worldwide plague hits, that's exactly when I drop the plague dlc lol.
Agreed. The zombies addition is just silly imo.
Does anyone actually play with zombies? Is it fun? I haven't given it a shot yet because it seems like it'd just be more annoying than anything.
It's a fun gimmick in MP games but honestly it leaves a lot to be desired
I tried it once but it didn't really add anything to the game. The zombies are weak and infrequent enough that they aren't hard to deal with. Meanwhile, the AI spams the anti-zombie improvements so it pretty quickly falls behind.
Felt like it made the game really easy.
That's the exact opposite of my experience. Played it once, was getting zombies spawned every turn around my only city. Brutal.
Played it once and if you keep a decent military zombies are basically a non-factor. Need more giant migratory hordes to actually pose a threat, usually you just have 1-2 pop up which can be quickly dispatched.
It creates an extra wildcard of being able to control zombies and shift them elsewhere, into another civ's territory. Though, that can bite you in the ass, too, when you're warmongering and leaving a bunch of corpses behind that rise up all at once into entire armies all around your cities.
Definitely a game mode where every city needs to have walls and ranged defenders.
When they announced that I was like "Really?" And I haven't even had the urge to play that mode once.
I'd like to see the defensive structures from zombies in the base game.
This. Its really the only reason i add it when creating a game. The defensive structures are nice. You can build walls down your borders to keep either hostile civs out or barbs/zombies
I'm sad they didn't add more realistic game modes. I always play with barbarian tribes and corporations, never the other ones.
I think putting a pandemic in right now would be in somewhat poor taste.
Terrorism and insurgencies are usually political first and religious second.
That's a cool idea
I've always wanted to play Civ as the barbarians
That was an option in a version of Civ. It was either IV or V if I remember correctly.
EDIT: Found it, [Civ IV Barbarians!](https://civilization.fandom.com/wiki/Barbarians!_\(Civ4\)) It came with the Warlods expansion.
Definitely not V. I don't think it was in IV either. The unit stacking was much cooler though.
It was in V, it was called playing Germany without settlers.
That's a really cool way to start a game.
Hm... I guess I must be misremembering, but I feel like there was some game mode...maybe it was a Horde mode or something? I remember having a different game mode where you didn't build cities and just conquered things by requirement instead of by choice.
EDIT: Found it, [Civ IV Barbarians!](https://civilization.fandom.com/wiki/Barbarians!_\(Civ4\)) It came with the Warlods expansion.
Or, if it wasn't religion. Think nazis, or communists, or Pol pot. Extremists happen whenever there is pressure or desperation.
I think they're effectively religions, just without the supernatural elements.
I mean, without the supernatural part, they just become philosophies. The supernatural part is what makes it religion in my mind
There was a mod for Civ V that I used which renamed the barbarians each era. Depending on when in the game you were, they might be pirates, brigands, rebels, etc.
Yeah that mod is good shit, it also removes that fucking stupid xp from barbarian cap.
Yeah I thought they should be called Something like that during late game
Maybe narcotraffickers? They've used submarines to smuggle drugs although I don't think any of them yet have torpedoes.
yeah, making them submarines with no attack but some detrimental effect if they reach your cities, the random barb encampments could instead become illicit drug farms, with poppies, coca or if off in the arctic pill factories.
"Oy, let's torpedo the stable!"
"...What for, boss?"
"The horses will get out, Philip. We've gone over this. Imagine the chaos!"
"This is why you're the boss, boss. Simply brilliant."
Fun fact: the name Philip comes from the Greek name Φίλιππος (Philippos) meaning "friend of horses"
Not these horses.
Yeah, but these horses were dicks. They know what they did.
I... uh... alrighty then
He just wants them to be free!
These particular horses are about to be pink mist.
But if you only damage the stables with torpedos without making misted horse meat, that would free the horses and they could roam free in your 21st century city like they always wanted.
Friend of horses
Hippo means horse and that's why horse race tracks/Basil's UD are called hippodromes. Hippopotamus means "river horse". Just sharing in case anyone didn't know, I find etymology incredibly interesting.
Same in Chinese too!
河马 he ma (hippopotamus)
河 he (river)
吗 ma (horse)
Sorry don’t know how to write tones in pinyin
I use [this program](https://www.chinese-forums.com/forums/topic/37827-quickpinyin-type-pinyin-with-tone-marks-portable/) on windows for pinyin. Just make sure you turn it off when you're playing anything using number input because sometimes it will negate it.
In Dutch we call them Nile horses!
Ha! same in Serbian "nilski konj"
Can confirm. Know a Philip who totally love horse sausages
Was his last name 'Hands'?
Is that the etymology of 'filly', for horses?
Nah apparently that comes from the Old Norse fylja, meaning “foal”. A filly is specifically a young female horse
And a philly is a delicious sandwich or a place you dont want your significant other being from.
They most likely share the same proto Indo-European root though. Too lazy to look it up at the moment but the phonetic similarities are high and Germanic languages and Greek don’t share a ton of cognates that don’t actually come from Greek originally.
Doubtful, considering the phil part in phillippos means friend. The hippo part is the horse.
Except the Phil- part comes from φίλος (love). The horse is the -ippos part (ίππος)!
Oh you are correct!
so a horse fry then?
It's a stable food for many.
Your tactics terrify and confuse me, sir.
even better that he's putting on sunglasses in a dark submarine.
It doesn't matter how light or dark it is, you put sunglasses on to look like Horatio Caine and have The Who scream in the background
WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGGGGHH oh wait wrong game.
Do you have any idea how much race horses can be worth? that raid might pay for the submarine
oh no the tanks gotten loose!
The small decline in literacy rates will lead to a fall in educational attainment, eventually leading to the fall of their civilisation and regression to barbarism.
But aren't we barbarians boss?
Shut up Dave.
it's how they reproduce
No that's just by stealing my fucking workers >:(
Reject society, return to monke
Ape together strong
No turn back! I wish to be barbarian!
*Warping sound and pillages your maze*
Fun fact: the name Dave comes from the Greek name Dίλιπvος (Daveos) meaning "friend of authors".
I'm starting to question the origin of the name Philip
more or less how modern day terrorism works
I've always had the head cannon that late game barbarians are basically just terrorists
When the partisans are spawned by a spy I assume they could be considered terrorists from an in-game perspective.
I've hilariously seen them immediately go to a neighboring country and ignore the one they started in on many occasions.
I once had a huge mountain range separating my empire from Spain's, except I owned a single tile on the other side which I used to build a neighborhood. Being the idiot he is, Philip decided to recruit some partisans there that did nothing except sabotage his own empire.
CIA-tier strategy there
this game has secretly had genius level AI and we didn't appreciate it
I spawned barbarians on somebody only for them to pillage my trade routes :)
Literally half of South America
One world. One people.
Kinda like real life too. Al Qaeda was financed by the US to push soviets out of Afganistan. It then bit them back in the ass.
In a less hyperbolic example, a lot of terrorism in Europe don’t come from the regions they act on. They may radicalize in suburban Paris and act in Germany or Belgium.
Hey, depending on their goals, that might be valid.
Maybe they are terrorists who are mad that you aren’t at war with that country.
A member of an armed group formed to fight secretly against an occupying force. So, techincally, yes, from the perspective of the leading force
Maybe they're mad about having the same immortal dictator for five thousand years.
Who sometimes doesn't care about amenities and is on full throttle to proclaim a science victory. Makes sense.
"We need a water park"
No no, you just need to be assigned to a research lab.
Why does a zoo increases so much amenity but electricity don’t? What about Wi-fi? ...(gasp) video games?
Honestly, electrification is way less powerful (lol) than it should be.
This is facts tho; for something that everyone in a first world country takes for granted with how much it changes stuff, a few stat buffs are really underwhelming.
Hell, you can go entire games without really needing to have electricity in like half of your empire which is pretty unfitting. Late game Civ needs some enhancements / an overhaul imo
Launching a space project without electricity in the entire empire!
Didn't you could research rocketry before combustion.
"Yay we did it, we launch a rocket to space. Btw that flame look neat, idk what it is for though"
What should be happening is that once electricity is invented it isn’t really important but later more techs should buff electricity.
Because people would use the internet to speak well on the immortal dictator?
The Electricity tech isn't about wi-fi or video games. It is about discovering electricity.
A relevant door monster vid [Independence](https://youtu.be/UbHspnYO21I)
Create something in your head and have a whol storyline and create their goals and stuff. It makes it more interesting
Maybe they have goals.
I'd love it if they could expand on the clan idea- gave them their own messed up ideology trees. Nothing too edgy. Maybe a bit like the Dark Age policies. I love those.
Civ developers please read this you're the best thanks.
They still mad I converted that village 500 years ago.
Think of late-game barbarians as fundamentalist militias that reject all secular authority and live off the grid, stealing weapons and food to sustain themselves.
Especially now with recruit partisans... it is beyond me how they haven't included a "war on terror" casus belli after terrorists in tanks burn down the wealthy neighborhoods of my f-ing capital
This was hinted at in Civ 2 with the Fanatics and the [Partisans](https://civilization.fandom.com/wiki/Partisans_(Civ2\))
it be great if they make this the official mechanic in the next civ
You can make an update pack out of this.
They are. When a city is too dissatisfied a bunch of barbarians aka rebels/terrorists spawn and start wreaking havoc, the devs just group them all together as one unit.
I was gonna say narco cartels but your example works too lol
And Somali pirates.
How about a gamemode where industrial+ barbarian encampments are supervillain lairs? They can produce spies and nuclear weapons, and you can send spies back to disband them!
*and you can ONLY send spies to disband them. Otherwise -2 loyalty per citizen per turn lmao
On that topic though, it would be majorly lit if a barbarian clan, through an espionage effort and if left unsupervised long enough, could take over power of a city state and make it go rogue. That would be realistic af.
And then players could liberate the city state and it would go back to the way it was.
Actually I’d love more dynamic city states in general.
As for now, if left unattacked for about 100 turns they turn into a city state. But i like your idea more.
Really? Was that in an update?
Yeah buddy, [came out in february](https://civilization.fandom.com/wiki/Barbarian_Clans_(Civ6)
It's an optional gamemode added in the free February 2021 Update if I remember correctly.
They'd be a lot easier to deal with if you could send jet bombers to clear out that tile and the tiles around them.
Something something, negative GPT and military industrial complex, negative happiness
Oh god that would be such a chaotic mess; I absolutely love it. Imagine trying that with apocalypse, tech shuffle dramatic ages AND zombies??? Simply existing would be a death wish
A bit tangential, but Somali piracy largely started when other nations began illegally fishing in Somali waters as there was no Navy to enforce its maritime borders. So fisherman started going out and defending their waters themselves, only to realize there was more money to be made in capturing/ransoming sailors than in fishing itself.
A great example of how circumstances create crime, not inherently bad individuals.
You can see their thought process here,
Sp- Hey Dont fish in our waters , fuck off
Boat- we won't fuck off, What you gonna do
Sp with guns- We'll shoot you
B- No Pls Don't We'll do what you want
Sp- Wait a second
Yeah i mean same thing with terrorists and the cartels. But i think that would be too minute a detail to try and replicate in civ.
Edit: although maybe not lol. Have every disruptive spy operation result in a 50/50 chance of a barbarian clan being created. Realistic but i still think it would be too much.
At least a few gangs started as attempts by people to organize safety in their neighborhood when they couldn't rely on the cops to do so.
When the laws don't protect a group don't be surprised if that group ignores the laws and takes care of themselves.
There’s also the fact that the Aden Sea is a massively important international shipping lane thanks to the Suez Canal; piracy wouldn’t be profitable otherwise.
Let me tell you a thing or two. Somali pirates are more like venture capitalist
There is a fund where you invest in pirate expeditions. Based on their experience, arms, and vessel the prices differ.
When they capture a vessel the money is divided between the financiers, the port (which hosted the vessel) and the pirates.
Used to be true centuries ago of privateers, you could invest in them in european exchanges.
[Somali sea gangs lure investors at pirate lair | Reuters](https://www.reuters.com/article/us-somalia-piracy-investors-idUSTRE5B01Z920091201)
*Piracy investor Sahra Ibrahim, a 22-year-old divorcee, was lined up with others waiting for her cut of a ransom pay-out after one of the gangs freed a Spanish tuna fishing vessel.*
*“I am waiting for my share after I contributed a rocket-propelled grenade for the operation,” she said, adding that she got the weapon from her ex-husband in alimony. “I am really happy and lucky. I have made $75,000 in only 38 days since I joined the ‘company’.”*
I played germany and late game with tanks was not fun because I did not see the barbarian camps before. mfers had anti tank and I lost like 4 tanks
Welcome to Afghanistan, enjoy your stay!
So you ran into the USSR of the Barbarian persuasion?
anarco communists with a cis-6 anti tank gun
Civil War Spain if they had had more support.
Critical support for modern era barbarian camps
You would have hated a game I had then. I tried colonising Australia, but it was packed by barbarians with tanks, mechanised, anti-tank, etc. Surprised they didn't nuke me
Imagine if terrorists had weapons like numerous tanks at their disposal
the panzers were pounced!
This is what happens in the alternate history, where they don't have the Adam West Batman film to warn them about selling submarines to people who only provide a PO box number.
Look at me.
I am the librarian now.
Conan the Librarian.
I mean library, skyscraper office building, a church, capitol hill, same thing really.
I couldn't help but read it in Dr. Evil's voice
Straight line is most efficient route even if within range of city defenses.
Playing as the Vikings feels like you get to be the barbarians in this scenario. Gonna pillage your library real quick... and now I've got nukes unlocked!
Even fubnier is when you discover barbarian camp somewhere far behind arctic circle and they are just waiting there in their wooden camp with fucking gatling gun team. What the hell.
I feel the name of barbarians should change as you go through the ages, bandits, pirates, anarchists, terrorists etc
Mmm. Maybe replace Renaissance barbarians with “Highwaymen”
Stand and deliver!
Barbarians in real world be like "Let's steal a plane, fly it to the most militarized country in the world, and crash it into a building."
Well ... If you Imagine the Islamic State using captured tanks to destroy cultural heritages or burning down schools. The mentioned scenario isn't that far away.
Okay man you can fuck up my library... just socially distance yourselves 6 tiles from my fucking harbour please.
I thought this was a post of my D&D groups planning process.
Raids on a library for document or something probably can happen in real world.This whole costal raiding mechanic is somewhat realistic.
Or more like real world ISIS that targeted libraries, holy sites and the like as affronts to their religion.
Ya there's a reason the total war military policy is designed the way it is. In no holds barred wars like wwii cultural sites, factories, scientific institutions are usually all pillaged and robbed. Sometimes that includes the scientists who make the missile tech for your enemy nation.
I took advantage of those policies alot.
“Good morning everyone. Ahh! [Trips on stage.] Umm ... so, as you know, today, we're invading the Fire Nation! I mean I know you know that because otherwise why else would you be here? [Laughs nervously.] Uh anyway, [Dropping scrolls. Unraveling one on a board.] the Fire Lord's palace is here [Points at map, realizing it isn't the map, flips the chart several times until it is the map.]. Uh nope, uh wait, uh wait, uh wait, it's here, [Brief shot of Due scratching his head.] and uh, there's an eclipse today and Aang's gonna fight the Fire Lord and the firebenders won't have any fire to use so that's good for us! [Brief shot of Teo and the mechanist looking on.] And ... um ... I'm sorry let me start at the beginning [Stands up straight, and begins talking very fast.]. Katara and I discovered Aang frozen in an iceberg......”
I just despise the fact that barbarians will decide out of every civ to mess with, I am going to beeline for the human player. I have had times where barbarians decide to attack my unit instead of the free settler my opponent owns
That is why I hold a Kriegsmarine to patrol the costlines and murder every barbarian unit.
Barbarian submarine=Captain Nemo at work.
*Barbarian looking at the library
-What are we?
-And what do we do?
-We mug people!
-So let's go mug it!
This is the reference I came here for
Good. Tammy works at the library.
I feel like at some point the barbarians need to be renamed “pirates” then later “terrorists”
Isn't that like the plot for most James Bond movies?
I perceive late game barbs as ideological or fanatical terrorists/insurrectionists, so maybe it’s a matter of offshoot religious zealots burning the library for the sake that of destroying blasphemy
The name of that submarine? Red October.
Im only here for the homestar runner reference
Caleb, are you making a little tent out of my jacket?
I am now!
CALEB that suitcase was heavy!
Religious zealots burning the books because they contain dangerous messages, such as women having rights, or voters allowed to be given water and food.
Now that I think of it, I don't think I've ever seen a barbarian naval unit more advanced than a caravel. Maybe a frigate.
Multiple times seen at crews
Had a barb battleship and ironclad in a game of VI today.
Civs needs a life expiration for units. Use it or lose it. Those little dudes shouldn't live forever just because they're not doing anything.
I think it's technically the gold cost. You are paying to replace the scout after having people explore the Artic circle for 2 millennia
yeah, you´d call nowadays terrorists, insurgents, rogue mercs "barbarians"...