T O P

Is this a suitable treat. Maybe like 2-3 a day for protein?

Is this a suitable treat. Maybe like 2-3 a day for protein?

bigsquaredick

It’s a great treat but 2-3 they are gonna look at you funny. I guess I don’t know how many birds but I hold out handfuls and they eat right from my hand it’s a good bonding time. They do peck kinds hard so you may want gloves


PopsiclesForChickens

Right? I'm like maybe 2-3 handfuls!


chickenjournal

No, that will be very high. Don't give that much, It may cause health issues like obesity and indigestion.


JarminT

I give mine mealworms all the time. Just make sure they have plenty of water to hand/beak as they are quite dry


xdscatman

Thanks for the advice 👍


Additional-Fudge5068

I think you may be in the UK as well - you aren't allowed to feed dried insects to chickens FYI: [https://www.gov.uk/guidance/supplying-and-using-animal-by-products-as-farm-animal-feed](https://www.gov.uk/guidance/supplying-and-using-animal-by-products-as-farm-animal-feed) Dried terrestrial and aquatic invertebrates Dried terrestrial invertebrates (insects) and processed animal proteins (PAPs) of insect origin cannot be used in farm animal feed or in treats, for example hen treats.


FishSn0rt

Is there a reason for this? Seems really stupid but there might be a good reason. Couldn't find anything on the page.


MollyB00

it’s because mass produced mealworms are often: imported, fed animal proteins, fed animal waste. Those three factors introduce a lot of room for diseases to grow/spread, it was introduced in 2011 (not after mad cow disease in the 80s/90s) after imported mealworms were found to carry a number of diseases, so the ban is a precautionary measure to keep your ladies healthy


FishSn0rt

Got it, thanks!


Additional-Fudge5068

It was introduced after the UK suffered from the BSE/Mad Cow crisis (which of course didn't just result in millions of cows being slaughtered but also resulted in CJD occurring in people and deaths resulting). One might argue it was a bit of a knee-jerk reaction to cut off anything with suspect animal by-products, but that's what they did.


FishSn0rt

I live in the US and my chickens would revolt if they no longer could eat mealworms. Lol. Thanks for the explanation


Additional-Fudge5068

No problem at all. Mine never got into them when I used to feed them before I knew about the law... They love blueberries though!


FishSn0rt

Good to know!! My blueberry bushes are getting full, they may be some happy birds soon


thoubiable

This only accounts if you keep them as a business. Backyard chicken can be fed with whatever you want, you just can't sell the eggs.


Additional-Fudge5068

That is incorrect. All poultry including pets are covered by this. https://keeping-chickens.me.uk/getting-started/rules-and-regulations/animal-by-product-regulations/


bluefordtractor

yea. lets follow what big ag, has to say... ​ lol....


Additional-Fudge5068

Says the person whose most recent posts are anti-vaccine conspiracy theories... ok


bluefordtractor

if you think feeding you chickens insects is bad for them. you've never owned chickens... yea... posting links to vaers stats is conspiracy theory... you hit some keywords to win the simp karma... LOL you obviously didn't even read to as why it's banned in the link, that you posted yourself... it's the large potential to be from overseas lol... not even that the product is bad for the bird... like i said... you're a simp


Additional-Fudge5068

I own chickens. I fed them mealworms before I knew you weren't allowed to in this country. Now I don't... To be honest, the chickens never really liked them anyway - they prefer digging earthworms


bluefordtractor

"the chickens never really liked them anyway" my point proven... thank you... you'll ill, and just want to win an argument... go ahead mate... chickens dont like meal worms.. when they eat them instantly, and all of them, which is why so many people feed them sparingly, it's because they don't like them...


LordOvrkill

Damn give them a break. All you are doing is making yourself look like an asshole. And not all animals love the same things. I have a dog that loves chips and yet I have another that hates them. I have chickens that love grasshoppers and some that don’t care for them.


Additional-Fudge5068

My chickens don't like them. I am sorry that my chickens are a disappointment to you


JarminT

I think the key phrase there is 'Farm animals' my birds are pets nor do I sell the eggs.


Additional-Fudge5068

As posted elsewhere, chickens are regarded as livestock regardless of intent or setting


gazorp23

You're incorrect! It's not illegal. From your link, "Dried aquatic inverterbrates can only be used in farm animal feed (for **non-ruminants**) if they come from an approved ABP premises - then they’re considered fishmeal." Chickens are **non-ruminants**. You, rather conveniently, omitted the rest of the section in order to support your false claim. It doesn't say anywhere that it's just outright not allowed. Sold by an approved vendor who buys from and approved ABP premises, it is technically fishmeal and CAN legally be fed to non-ruminants. For reference, ruminants are even-toed ungulates who chew cud and must be feed grasses and grains.


MollyB00

mealworms are the larval form of mealworm beetles, which are terrestrial also from the link: “Dried terrestrial invertebrates (insects) and processed animal proteins (PAPs) of insect origin cannot be used in farm animal feed or in treats, for example hen treats.” which basically says “dried insects can’t be used as chicken feed”


Additional-Fudge5068

Oh for god's sake... are you being deliberately obtuse? Mealworms are terrestrial invertebrates, not aquatic.


neildegrasstokem

Reading over your profile, it looks like you lacking a lot of knowledge about the chickens you have now. How do you have chickens without a shelter, food, or knowledge of how to care for them? Kinda worried for you bro. Also, that username is equally worrying. good luck.


Additional-Fudge5068

Oh gosh - I didn't even look at the post history. That is pretty eek...


xdscatman

Yeah old Reddit acc


xdscatman

My dad is a farmer but he didn’t teach me anything and expects me to know stuff so I’m a bit in the dark


Additional-Fudge5068

It's illegal in the UK to feed dried insects to poultry just FYI. You can feed live ones, but dried mealworms you can only feed to wild birds.


throwaybice

“Ahh yess these chickens are wild they just like sleeping in my backyard”


FishSn0rt

Hahaha perfect


xdscatman

Is there a reason it’s illegal? Like does it have negative effects


KingKhram

Check out the www.bhwt.org.uk website for the explanation. I would give the info but I've been drinking down the pub for the England game


xdscatman

Aight


gazorp23

Looks to me like a good way to sell brand associated products for chickens keepers!! It doesn't seem to have much direct information why it's safer to feed chickens live (possibly disease/parasite bearing) worms, as opposed to dried (pasteurized, processed, clean) worms.


Additional-Fudge5068

They are not pasteurised. Even if they were, that doesn't stop spread of prion disease. Please absorb some basic science.


MrBlahg

You may not be wrong regarding UK and EU law regarding mealworms… but you are being a rude ass. I’m a chemist (so I’m aware of basic science), I keep chickens, and I buy them bags and bags of mealworms… and as a Californian, this is the first time I’ve ever heard of this law. Educating people is cool… talking down to people is not.


Additional-Fudge5068

The guy's first comment to me was calling me a knob. I've been pretty cordial considering the way he's spoken to me. All he seems to do is want to argue, despite any facts or evidence to the contrary.


Additional-Fudge5068

Here - first response to me: [https://www.reddit.com/r/chickens/comments/nyy8p7/is\_this\_a\_suitable\_treat\_maybe\_like\_23\_a\_day\_for/h1mrg75?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/chickens/comments/nyy8p7/is_this_a_suitable_treat_maybe_like_23_a_day_for/h1mrg75?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)


Additional-Fudge5068

It can potentially cause prion disease I believe is the issue. Mealworms are often fed on human or animal waste.


xdscatman

Good to know


Additional-Fudge5068

They introduced the ban after mad cow disease because of cows being fed on animal byproducts


gazorp23

PAP is different from dried worms. You saod love worms are legal! How does that make any sense??? If they carry prions, they MOST DEFINITELY carry them while living. Dried worms are processed and pasteurized!! Do you not understand this simple concept? Are you capable of connecting the dots and having a thought for yourself?


LuminousLynx

Pasteurization does not affect prions


Additional-Fudge5068

THIS. He's conveniently ignored this point below, and still insists that they're pasteurised which I've never seen on any mealworms in the UK...


Additional-Fudge5068

They are NOT pasteurized. Show me where UK mealworms say they are pasteurized... stop trying to back your paper thin argument up with outright fallacies...


gazorp23

It's not illegal to feed a pet whatever you want within reason, idc what country you're in. Surely, you can't feed SOME things to chickens who bear eggs which you SELL or to chickens which would be sold for meat. That regulation probably exist in the US too. Also, i doubt they would sell you the worms of they were illegal as animal feed...that's literally the only use for dried mealworms. And it's illegal to sell illegal goods, known as criminal paraphernalia...uh herp derp


Additional-Fudge5068

Chickens are not regarded as pets in the UK. They are classified as livestock whatever the setting.


gazorp23

So how exactly are they meant to enforce this law with "pet" livestock? It's a fallacy to think the law makes any difference when raising chickens in your garden. No law enforcement is scoping reddit to crack down on dried invertebrate users. Also, scientifically it makes no sense. LIVE feed of any kind has a much higher chance of carrying disease or contaminates. Whereas dried invertebrates are pasteurized and are therefor factually safer for any animal to eat, humans included.


Additional-Fudge5068

They rely on people trusting science (by scientists, not by reddit armchair-scientists) and not deliberately breaking the law? Don't quite see why you think live feed has a higher chance of carrying contaminates - it's alive, therefore it hasn't died... dead feed - how do you know it didn't die of being poisoned? Also - where on earth did you pull out the fallacy that insects are pasteurised? Do you even know what pasteurisation is? Mealworms tend to be freeze-dried. That is not pasteurisation. Also, prion diseases are generally caused by PROTEINS, not by a bacteria or virus. So pasteurisation or freeze-drying isn't going to do anything to mitigate that. Do you think you could stop arguing for the sake of arguing and accept that DEFRA probably had a pretty good reason to introduce the ban and, whatever your objections to it, it's still a ban. If you choose to ignore it, good for you, but stop trying to spread false information to other chicken keepers.


Additional-Fudge5068

Here's the link: [https://www.gov.uk/guidance/supplying-and-using-animal-by-products-as-farm-animal-feed](https://www.gov.uk/guidance/supplying-and-using-animal-by-products-as-farm-animal-feed) Dried terrestrial and aquatic invertebrates Dried terrestrial invertebrates (insects) and processed animal proteins (PAPs) of insect origin cannot be used in farm animal feed or in treats, for example hen treats.


gazorp23

They why would they sell these at the farm store you knob?


Additional-Fudge5068

I don't know... it's a store... to make money, Einstein?


gazorp23

If it's illegal goods to feed animals, it's illegal to sell it at A FARM STORE, which mostly sells feed for "livestock". You can't sell drugs from a petrol counter, Oppenheimer. You're the one claiming it's illegal, like anyone cares, or that it would make any difference. No one is facing punitive action due to their pet chicken feed choices.


Additional-Fudge5068

Oh look - a farm store: [https://www.tfmsuperstore.co.uk/products/mealworms-pouch-400g/](https://www.tfmsuperstore.co.uk/products/mealworms-pouch-400g/) it sells mealworms... for WILD BIRDS Anyway, you're clearly just a troll, so troll away...


mind_the_umlaut

Why is this banned? Why are vegetable catering waste banned? I understand why concentrated animal products like gelatine would be banned, but I'd love some more background!


Additional-Fudge5068

Kitchen scraps are banned unless it's a vegan kitchen for I think a similar reason... the risk of cross contamination with animal byproducts which could lead to disease


xdscatman

I really dont know


CautiousShower

We throw them out in handfuls. They can pretty much have as much as they want, and they LOVE THEM.


TheBigRoosterCock

Oh yeah, but they will want WAY more than 2 or 3, pull a handful out and they will just peck away


chickenjournal

Its a amazing treat. For adult chickens 4-5 twice a day 3 days in week is best. Your flocks go crazy on them. Here is our complete guide on [mealworms for chickens](https://chickenjournal.com/mealworms-for-chickens/).


dick2110

Hell yes!!! If you want to spend lots of money!!


SpellVegetable

Eww-eww for hooman but yum-yum for chicken