There is some truth to the way our guys are playing. Context matters of course but Kai hasn’t been good, Mount against USA left a lot to be desired while Puli and Ziyech are doing pretty well. We are 8th in the league so our system has to be in question
If you really look at the world cup games it becomes obvious why Chelsea is struggling. Watching england play literally felt like I was watching Chelsea. Mount as a cam is so uncreative that even a striker like Kane struggles. Compound that with havertz performances for his side which landed him on the bench. It’s no wonder that we can’t attack with such uninventive players up front.
What makes it even worse is that pulisic and ziyech literally elevated their teams with their effort and creativity, literally what Chelsea needs, and yet we keep sticking with these cardio merchants that just run around losing the ball all game.
At what point do we question why our attackers, 5+ attackers with different profiles and strengths, all struggle in our team. All of them suck? Really? At what point do we accept that the blame lies with our midfield?
People will dismiss it as the World Cup being and easier environment but keep in mind that our starters are all playing here as well. You can’t be playing Connor ghallagar and rlc with ziyech and pulisic on the bench, like cmon.
I agree, we don’t have one decent forward passing CM which has continued to hurt us. On top of that Kante is in the hospital more than he is on the field. Kovacic in and out of the team and the Jorginho is essentially ineffective when we try to attack. Because of this our front 3 struggles immensely because we literally need them to pick the ball in midfield and go forward, they are not CMs. Why do Pulisic and Ziyech do better for their teams, because they have support from the midfield
Can't help but feel butthurt about how all these players are doing so well with their respective national teams, but can't perform same level for Chelsea. Makes me feel they will not perform for Potter.
I’m more convinced that the issue is the players they play with not with the players themselves. I think the World Cup is showing Chelsea fans which of our players are actually good and which are being scapegoated. You can’t shine offensively with Jorginho and mount in the mid.
Agreed,been saying for a long time Jorginho is not a long campaign midfielder, he is good for cup games. Mount still is young, but I don't yet feel confident of winning with him in the team.
Kovacic should be starting all games when fit though. Just need a good DM and another midfielder similar to the Modric role/profile.
Well, NT football is a bit different. Coaches usually rate players based on experience and how long they played for NT before. And especially of Moukoko it would be huge risk to bank on him, especially in a game like that.
I highly doubt there is any truth to the article because it came out in the middle of a world cup which means there is exactly zero chance he's negotiating his contract at the moment
Also, I think they have to pay him that if they want to keep him. It's the corner you back yourself into when you give the contracts to Sterling and Koulibaly that we did. They were completely insane and a lot of us pointed it out at the time and were shot down. Look at United and Barca, once you start breaking your wage structure it just spirals out of control because everyone else will work their contract renewals/new contracts out based on what they're already paying other players.
Gvardiol is the guy. Whoever doesn't see quality there has no ball knowledge. If we miss out on him it would be fucking sad. He is the Silva replacement. Please Chelsea and all the gods, I have been asking since last year, do me this favor, get Gvardiol to Chelsea F.C.
He was literally coming from a big injury, it takes most a year to get to form after that and he has strated balling last few games and now in WC. Without context things look different.
As good as he is, the last thing we need is another old, declining player on high wages when we are trying to rebuild the team. And if his first season at Psg is anything to go by, he’d probably take over a season to adapt to the league anyway
You realise this game basically become pointless today and the game Vs Costa Rica is the only one that matters? It's the complete opposite of a must win.
The group comes down to whether or not they can beat Costa Rica and then it comes down to goal difference and they might not even need that after Spain beat Japan.
They could, but they won't. This Spain team aren't losing to Japan and if Germany don't batter Costa Rica then there is no reason for them to go through anyway
He’s overrated, he’s not generational in anyway. I literally can’t think of a elite skill of his.
Haaland: Elite finishing
Musiala: Elite dribbling in tight spaces
Pedri: Elite dribbling and vision/passing
Gavi: Elite interceptions ability and can press really well
Kvaratskhelia: Elite dribbling and vision
Leo: Elite dribbling
Enzo Fernandez: Elite interception and basic passing ability/ a thing for elite strikes
Gvardiol: Elite defending and passing young Silva….
L. Hall: Chillwel 2.0 only more potential….
Yes exactly he is technically one of the most sound CBS I’ve seen play and at 20 years old as well we NEED to sign him I don’t care if it takes €90 million like they wanted in the summer pay whatever it takes
You are not wrong with that one would love rice and gvardiol to be the signings and maybe try to pry de Jong from Barca because he is what we are missing in terms of creation from the midfield
Have you watched the game that's just been played? On the counter and he fluffs a pass that would've lead to a 1v1. I think he does this consistently when we're on a counter.
Man PSG have nearly finalized the signing of Luka Vuskovic. Man I am sad I wanted him so bad, one of the best young talents. Nothing is going good around Chelsea rightnow to give me some happiness.
I love the player, but his durability is a huge issue. I’d rather he stays, but I don’t blame anyone for wanting to move on from the many injury-prone players we have.
Judging from your comment history, I’m not surprised. Either you’re allergic to recognizing and appreciating technical ability or you just have a hard-on for British lads. There isn’t a single midfield available for less than a huge fee that can do what Kova does
It has nothing to do with nationality, I appreciate everything he is good at but I'm also capable of recognising the bad in him. It also doesn't help that he reportedly wants to leave too.
It was KDB vs Ziyech. While one guy stepped up and dribbled past the opposition, whipped in dangerous crosses, scored a disallowed goal from a set piece, gave a beautiful the other one was strolling on the pitch, kept dribbling into defenders, couldn't find his teammates in the box, didn't make one through ball and skied set pieces. You all can guess who was who
Batshauyi is so awful to watch, the only thing he can do to an acceptable level is finish and even that’s questionable. The drop off between him and Lukaku is staggering.
Had debates with people who genuinely thought he deserved an extended chance in the side.
I'm not the oracle and get as much wrong as right but how tf did anyone come to that conclusion.
Think it's time as Chelsea fans that we actually accept the fact that our attacking players aren't bad, we just don't play to their strengths, we're not going to sign anyone that will miraculously start banging goals and assists. Seeing all these players in the world cup where they got flexibility to create it's crazy imo. Sacrificing so much of our attack to compensate for other areas won't work long term.
I think we're past the time when it was acceptable to belueve International Football was relevant.
Our forwards suck, and that'd still hold true even if they were scoring and assisting 40 goals a season in the Championship, which honestly is probably a higher level than the world cup
Agreed. Ziyech has one good game against a washed Belgium side and people here think that overrides his countless passenger performances he's had for us where he loses the ball every second touch and gets physically bullied.
It's like people don't realise 3 different managers now see him in training every day and don't regularly start him. They must all be wrong.
In Ziyech's case it's pretty simple. He's a physically unimposing technical oriented player who needs far too much time on the ball to do his thing, which just isn't a good fit for the intensity of our league.
Pulisic has still to have a good numbers season anywhere in his career so he was a buy on potential basis that hasn't really worked out for us. Potential is still there but I think it's a mental block with him. The frustrations with himself he shows on his face every time he gets something wrong are telling.
Mount's numbers have been pretty good on the whole bar the last 6 months of awful form and Sterling started pretty well under Tuchel until Potter started playing him as a wingback. Too early to say on likes of Sterling and Auba for me. Both put up great numbers wherever they've been and we're only 1/3 into the season.
You have highlighted problems that are valid, but the core of the problem still remains, most Chelsea attackers look clueless on the pitch half the time, either they get played out of position or they look lost on the pitch, that is an issue that isn't solely on the players.
Oh I agree there are systemic issues that I have confidence we'll solve, but Ziyech isn't one of those. He'll never be able to thrive in the intensity and physicality of this league when he needs so much time and space to excel, while offering nothing defensively. Just doesn't happen here.
Pulisic I think has a good shot if he stays fit and sticks it out here. Good run of games and a few goals and the mental issues disappear.
I truly believe any player can become successful if utilised in the right way, we lost so many talented player due to this. The fact that they still perform elsewhere confirms it. Our systems needs so much work at this point it's ridiculous, but hopefully we figure it out.
There aren't any players thriving in the modern premierleague who need 2 and 3 touches in 5 yards of space to play their game. It's not a thing and if you can't adjust your game you won't succeed in this league.
Yep but playing attacking minded players as wingback or don't don't play to his strength won't help the situation, yh he gotto adjust or get sold but asking him to get better when we won't help the situation with our play doesn't make sense to me.
The level of the world cup as a competition is up for debate but that doesn't matter in this scenario, we've seen these players perform at club level also, sterling has been performing in the prem for years, others in their various leagues, does that count for nothing.
Of course it counts for nothing, they were perfoming under completely different circumstances.
Sterling was surrounded by several of the most creative players in the league putting chances on a plate for him.
Lukaku and Ziyech performed because they were playing in leagues that gave them space they're reliant on, space they will never get in the low blocks we face every other week.
Havertz was performing in a role and position we had 0 intention of acconodating.
Everything you've said is valid, they were in different situations but it does count for something because we bought them to mirror those performances. You listed out 4 players, there are more, we buy players and don't utilize them properly is still clear to see. We got wingers playing wingback to accommodate one deficiency or the other, even in the attacking 3rd we look toothless even when we create, that isn't down to solely the players is what I'm saying.
>but it does count for something because we bought them to mirror those performances.
No, it absolutely doesn't. You can't mirror those performances because the conditions they're playing in are vastly different.
>You listed out 4 players, there are more,
Like?
>that isn't down to solely the players is what I'm saying.
And I'm saying you are wrong.
The conditions are different but world class players thrive is different conditions that's what make them world class, you don't break transfer fees for what ifs, we all know that, it to provide similar level of performance.
Timo werner was performing then we signed him and he hasn't been the same since then, I'm not saying the players are blameless I'm saying we don't try to help them with our style of play, we got wingers playing as wingbacks which makes no sense, we got players that were banging in goals for fun clueless in front of goal repeatedly, that makes zero sense
>The conditions are different but world class players thrive is different conditions
Problem is we aren't signing world class forwards
>Timo werner was performing then we signed him and he hasn't been the same since then
Already covered him with Lukaku and Ziyech. Needs more space than he'll ever get playing for us
That's a very tunnel vision way of looking at it, every league present different challenges, timo and lukaku were considered world class at the point we bought them, our style of play didn't help improve them.
It's the style of play. He plays 20× better in a low block where he can just use that massive frame to block everything.
He was decent for United before Ole started thinking it was time to suddenly become a team that plays a high line.
Let's be honest, harry isn't a good defender at best average but the way England plays covers all his flaws, it's not about him solely compared to united, the system helps bring the best out of him, at united with midfield of fred Scott most defenders would get killed. I honestly believe we don't help our attackers cause they go from world class to shit overnight at Chelsea
>Think it's time as Chelsea fans that we actually accept the fact that our attacking players aren't bad,
They're absolutely terrible.
Performing at a much lower standard of play like the world cup doesn't change that.
Think of it this way, we don't buy bums at Chelsea, if anything we overpay because we don't want to buy unproven or lesser known players, I'm saying these players don't become bums overnight. It's been a patterns for years now, we got so much proven talent and they all can't seem to perform but somehow get it going at the national level. We really gotto look inward cause it makes no sense.
>Think of it this way, we don't buy bums at Chelsea
Our transfer record over the last few years says otherwise.
For example Pulisic was absolutely shit at Dortmund and couldn't get into their team, it's not like he was pulling up trees before coming to us. Ziyech and Havertz performed in weaker leagues but have struggled in the prem.
It's not like we've signed a lot of proven top talent that has struggled, We've just spend a lot of money on fairly average players that haven't been able to perform at the highest level under multiple managers unfortunately.
See if you think pulisic was shit at Dortmund that up for debate depending on how you want to look at it but we can all agree he was considered a top talent prior to his injury, and our transfer record hasn't been shit if we look at it on paper, timo was banging in goals for fun, havertz was considered a massive talent bayern wanted, sterling had over a hundred goals at city, hakim was a major player in the ajax team that had all of Europe in a choke hold, lukaku won the league with inter and scored a shit ton. Outta nowhere they're all bums now, that makes zero sense.
If we ever get something good it's always got a monkey's paw style caveat, so expect if we ever see that it will be with Sterling at WB again and a Ruben, Gallagher midfield or something.
KDB's performance is an example of how even world class players who are at the peak of their careers struggle when the manager isn't good enough. In PL KDB does almost create 2- 3 chances per game, here against Morocco he has done fuck all except running his mouth with his expert commentary about Belgium team. What a game.
its built around endlessly moving the ball (usually after 1 touch), using space, and getting the ball back when they turn it over. any player capable of doing that regularly and consistently will look like the system is 'built' around them. pep has been running the same system since Barcelona. kdb is just a piece that fits perfectly in that system.
Shouldn‘t surprise anyone tbh. They were carried by Hazard lots of times, De Bruyne never stood out for them like he should have considering his qualities and Lukaku is as out of form as Hazard is
He can’t be interested with 5 minutes a game. People want to keep mentioning Dinamo but last I checked he ain’t the reason why chelsea is this bad this season. Best for player and club to part ways
Bats played next to Pulisic at Dortmund for 6 months and looked levels above him.
Scored more goals in half a season for Dortmund than Pulisic did any season in his career 😭
Terrible footballer but the man can get goals
I think even nowadays, he’d do better than them 2 do for us. Also neither of them have done anything in a Chelsea shirt, so it doesn’t hurt as much seeing them underperform.
Ziyech not playing at least as much as the rest of our attackers who are equally as shit most of the time is criminal.
Every single ball he puts in is so dangerous.
He takes risks, not something anyone else does. Yes it was a bit of an overexaggeration by me, but he does it quite often. The number of assists he would have if we had a player on the far post, as there should be, would be a lot bigger than he has so far.
"all his crosses" lol
All his cameos have been atrocious this year. It will be better for him and us when he moves on. Talented guy but has never looked quite right in the Prem.
Sadly, no.. I'm not.. [https://weaintgotnohistory.sbnation.com/2022/11/8/23446079/chelsea-0-1-arsenal-player-ratings-some-credit-to-the-defense](https://weaintgotnohistory.sbnation.com/2022/11/8/23446079/chelsea-0-1-arsenal-player-ratings-some-credit-to-the-defense)
The guy has averaged a 4 across all appearances with his best being a 5.9 across fan ratings for all matches thus far. I think he's better than what he has offered us but yeah.. he has been god awful.
>"all his crosses" lol ?
He was our best player against City when he started and didn't really play much in ages.
Yes he was atrocious against Dinamo, but so was everyone else.
2 clubs ahead of us to sign rice according to Matt law. City and Liverpool? Surely he comes to Chelsea
Who does everyone want in the FA Cup? Milwall probably no1
[удалено]
There is some truth to the way our guys are playing. Context matters of course but Kai hasn’t been good, Mount against USA left a lot to be desired while Puli and Ziyech are doing pretty well. We are 8th in the league so our system has to be in question
Dani Olmo is a serious player
Top player
CFs are back in fashion.
Our midfield sucks though
Ziyech and Pulisic with MVP awards for their WC matches, if Havertz gets one as well (which is unlikely atm) it will be my worst nightmare.
Havertz is so bad he can't even get off the bench
KDB after being given the award: "I don’t know why I have got the trophy. Maybe it’s because of the name."
Why? It's great that Chelsea players are doing well.
but it's against my narrative
Based?
Havertz is shite
Germany needs a goal and Kai stays on the bench....not a good look
not having timo werner has been disastrous for germany so far.
Morata is probably better than any of our forwards right now lmao
We say that about everyone but Lukaku
Lmao true
Terrific goal.
Morata runs into the corner and loses possession. Never change.
Oh brother
Proper Chelsea.
Always liked Morata and I like seeing him do well.
Every single German player attacking offside lol
Gavi the bully.
If you really look at the world cup games it becomes obvious why Chelsea is struggling. Watching england play literally felt like I was watching Chelsea. Mount as a cam is so uncreative that even a striker like Kane struggles. Compound that with havertz performances for his side which landed him on the bench. It’s no wonder that we can’t attack with such uninventive players up front. What makes it even worse is that pulisic and ziyech literally elevated their teams with their effort and creativity, literally what Chelsea needs, and yet we keep sticking with these cardio merchants that just run around losing the ball all game. At what point do we question why our attackers, 5+ attackers with different profiles and strengths, all struggle in our team. All of them suck? Really? At what point do we accept that the blame lies with our midfield? People will dismiss it as the World Cup being and easier environment but keep in mind that our starters are all playing here as well. You can’t be playing Connor ghallagar and rlc with ziyech and pulisic on the bench, like cmon.
I agree, we don’t have one decent forward passing CM which has continued to hurt us. On top of that Kante is in the hospital more than he is on the field. Kovacic in and out of the team and the Jorginho is essentially ineffective when we try to attack. Because of this our front 3 struggles immensely because we literally need them to pick the ball in midfield and go forward, they are not CMs. Why do Pulisic and Ziyech do better for their teams, because they have support from the midfield
The reason watching England is like watching Chelsea is the same reason that watching Belgium is like watching Chelsea. The manager not being capable.
Can't help but feel butthurt about how all these players are doing so well with their respective national teams, but can't perform same level for Chelsea. Makes me feel they will not perform for Potter.
They're just playing at a lower level. Would you be saying the same thing if they were on loan tearing up the Championship?
I’m more convinced that the issue is the players they play with not with the players themselves. I think the World Cup is showing Chelsea fans which of our players are actually good and which are being scapegoated. You can’t shine offensively with Jorginho and mount in the mid.
Agreed,been saying for a long time Jorginho is not a long campaign midfielder, he is good for cup games. Mount still is young, but I don't yet feel confident of winning with him in the team. Kovacic should be starting all games when fit though. Just need a good DM and another midfielder similar to the Modric role/profile.
Exactly what I’m thinking. Only kovacic is fine for our midfield, we need enzo and some creative mid to partner him.
Of all the utterly negligent player decisions made by the previous regime over the last 7 years, letting Rudiger go hurts me the most.
100% but I guess we haggled on Rudis wages only to pay top dollar to KK, who is absolutely horrendous
Dani Olmo is a class player and would really improve our creativity imo. Been great every game I've seen him play.
Unfortunately he is another one of these types that if Barca come's asking for him, he will go there.
Has he said much about them?
He was already talking about coming back to Barca when he was playing for Dinamo
Lol never mind then.
Germany continuing with the false 9 while they have Füllkrug and Moukoko riding the bench is maddening.
Well, NT football is a bit different. Coaches usually rate players based on experience and how long they played for NT before. And especially of Moukoko it would be huge risk to bank on him, especially in a game like that.
Play Rudiger at the 9, who says no?
Give me 11 Rudiger. I’ll take on anybody 
So Mount has allegedly turned down a 200k a week contract ? Anyone think the club will push to 250-300k ? 300k would be excessive imo.
I highly doubt there is any truth to the article because it came out in the middle of a world cup which means there is exactly zero chance he's negotiating his contract at the moment Also, I think they have to pay him that if they want to keep him. It's the corner you back yourself into when you give the contracts to Sterling and Koulibaly that we did. They were completely insane and a lot of us pointed it out at the time and were shot down. Look at United and Barca, once you start breaking your wage structure it just spirals out of control because everyone else will work their contract renewals/new contracts out based on what they're already paying other players.
Gvardiol is the guy. Whoever doesn't see quality there has no ball knowledge. If we miss out on him it would be fucking sad. He is the Silva replacement. Please Chelsea and all the gods, I have been asking since last year, do me this favor, get Gvardiol to Chelsea F.C.
He’s been in awful form for Leipzig most of the season
He was literally coming from a big injury, it takes most a year to get to form after that and he has strated balling last few games and now in WC. Without context things look different.
Gvardiol is good but personally, I wouldn't use the WC as a way of judging form
It's not just WC that I am using to judge him though, it is just helping him showcase his level on big stage but he has been great long before this.
What do you says if Messi is available for 1 more season, would you take the little magician?
On reasonable wages absolutely
As good as he is, the last thing we need is another old, declining player on high wages when we are trying to rebuild the team. And if his first season at Psg is anything to go by, he’d probably take over a season to adapt to the league anyway
Havertz benched for a must win game for his country, that's my generational talent
You realise this game basically become pointless today and the game Vs Costa Rica is the only one that matters? It's the complete opposite of a must win. The group comes down to whether or not they can beat Costa Rica and then it comes down to goal difference and they might not even need that after Spain beat Japan.
Eh? Are you an ostrich?
[удалено]
They could, but they won't. This Spain team aren't losing to Japan and if Germany don't batter Costa Rica then there is no reason for them to go through anyway
He’s overrated, he’s not generational in anyway. I literally can’t think of a elite skill of his. Haaland: Elite finishing Musiala: Elite dribbling in tight spaces Pedri: Elite dribbling and vision/passing Gavi: Elite interceptions ability and can press really well Kvaratskhelia: Elite dribbling and vision Leo: Elite dribbling Enzo Fernandez: Elite interception and basic passing ability/ a thing for elite strikes Gvardiol: Elite defending and passing young Silva…. L. Hall: Chillwel 2.0 only more potential….
Look out for the downvotes from the Havertz fan boys!
"Havertz fan boys" like that exact sort of comment isn't massively upvoted every single daily discussion
Nu uh??
We need to sign Gvardiol that is a must he is one of the best young CBs I have ever seen play
And many of our fans act like no we don't need him. He is going to be the world's best CB and you pass on him while have 3 CBs at club over 30.
Yes exactly he is technically one of the most sound CBS I’ve seen play and at 20 years old as well we NEED to sign him I don’t care if it takes €90 million like they wanted in the summer pay whatever it takes
I’ve seen the light Gvardiol, Colwill, Fofana 3atb Gvardiol, Fofana 4atb
Then focus on the midfield after that
Midfield needs immediate focus
If we go another transfer window without a midfield signing or two I give up lmao
You are not wrong with that one would love rice and gvardiol to be the signings and maybe try to pry de Jong from Barca because he is what we are missing in terms of creation from the midfield
Kovacic is what we need from our 8. Next we need a good defensive minded midfielder and some creativity in there
Yup we should have built our midfield around him
Hard to build a midfield around someone who is so injury prone
Exactly
Give Kovacic whatever Mount is asking for. World class
If kovacic could pass forward he'd be complete
You lot just don’t watch the games do you?
I watch every chelsea game. His forward passing isn't amazing
Compared to who?
Is there need for a comparison?
Yes Why is Kovacic bad at passing? In comparison to who?
Have you watched the game that's just been played? On the counter and he fluffs a pass that would've lead to a 1v1. I think he does this consistently when we're on a counter.
He frequently leads progressive passing and has for years. He gets the ball to our attackers, what they do with it has been the issue.
Huh?
He sometimes kills attacks by playing a poor forward pass on counters. I didn't think this was controversial
Kova and Ziyech having great outings today.
Man PSG have nearly finalized the signing of Luka Vuskovic. Man I am sad I wanted him so bad, one of the best young talents. Nothing is going good around Chelsea rightnow to give me some happiness.
Some chelsea fans wanted to move on from Kovacic loool
I love the player, but his durability is a huge issue. I’d rather he stays, but I don’t blame anyone for wanting to move on from the many injury-prone players we have.
Because people want to scapegoat the midfield for what their favourite attackers can’t do. Kovacic is world class and would thrive anywhere he goes
Still do
Judging from your comment history, I’m not surprised. Either you’re allergic to recognizing and appreciating technical ability or you just have a hard-on for British lads. There isn’t a single midfield available for less than a huge fee that can do what Kova does
It has nothing to do with nationality, I appreciate everything he is good at but I'm also capable of recognising the bad in him. It also doesn't help that he reportedly wants to leave too.
Renew Kova
Great game from Kovacic. Why can‘t he stay fit ffs
It was KDB vs Ziyech. While one guy stepped up and dribbled past the opposition, whipped in dangerous crosses, scored a disallowed goal from a set piece, gave a beautiful the other one was strolling on the pitch, kept dribbling into defenders, couldn't find his teammates in the box, didn't make one through ball and skied set pieces. You all can guess who was who
That’s been the De Bruyne WC story. People are blaming the manager, but De Bruyne is just straight up been awful. Always ghosts for Belgium
I only caught a few mins of the game but by the result I'm guessing you mean Hakim performed well?
KDB was non-existent.You could say that this compared even poorly with some of the poor performance we have seen from our attackers this season.
Yes
Good to see Ziyech and Pulisic performing.
I cannot accept bald drogba
Ziyech stonks ⬆️
It was bad enough having Michy and Lukaku at different times, imagine having both at the same time 🤣
Batshauyi is so awful to watch, the only thing he can do to an acceptable level is finish and even that’s questionable. The drop off between him and Lukaku is staggering.
>the only thing he can do to an acceptable level is finish and even that’s questionable. Sounds like you're talking about Lukaku
No he can't he missed chances like crazy everywhere he has been. He is a total fraud, guy is stealing money from football clubs. Atrocious player.
What’s it say about us that we’ve had him for god knows how long lol
Had debates with people who genuinely thought he deserved an extended chance in the side. I'm not the oracle and get as much wrong as right but how tf did anyone come to that conclusion.
Think it's time as Chelsea fans that we actually accept the fact that our attacking players aren't bad, we just don't play to their strengths, we're not going to sign anyone that will miraculously start banging goals and assists. Seeing all these players in the world cup where they got flexibility to create it's crazy imo. Sacrificing so much of our attack to compensate for other areas won't work long term.
I think we're past the time when it was acceptable to belueve International Football was relevant. Our forwards suck, and that'd still hold true even if they were scoring and assisting 40 goals a season in the Championship, which honestly is probably a higher level than the world cup
Agreed. Ziyech has one good game against a washed Belgium side and people here think that overrides his countless passenger performances he's had for us where he loses the ball every second touch and gets physically bullied. It's like people don't realise 3 different managers now see him in training every day and don't regularly start him. They must all be wrong.
I understand he hasn't performed in Chelsea but he's not the only players that seem to stick it at Chelsea, why is that?... it's a joke at this point.
In Ziyech's case it's pretty simple. He's a physically unimposing technical oriented player who needs far too much time on the ball to do his thing, which just isn't a good fit for the intensity of our league. Pulisic has still to have a good numbers season anywhere in his career so he was a buy on potential basis that hasn't really worked out for us. Potential is still there but I think it's a mental block with him. The frustrations with himself he shows on his face every time he gets something wrong are telling. Mount's numbers have been pretty good on the whole bar the last 6 months of awful form and Sterling started pretty well under Tuchel until Potter started playing him as a wingback. Too early to say on likes of Sterling and Auba for me. Both put up great numbers wherever they've been and we're only 1/3 into the season.
You have highlighted problems that are valid, but the core of the problem still remains, most Chelsea attackers look clueless on the pitch half the time, either they get played out of position or they look lost on the pitch, that is an issue that isn't solely on the players.
Oh I agree there are systemic issues that I have confidence we'll solve, but Ziyech isn't one of those. He'll never be able to thrive in the intensity and physicality of this league when he needs so much time and space to excel, while offering nothing defensively. Just doesn't happen here. Pulisic I think has a good shot if he stays fit and sticks it out here. Good run of games and a few goals and the mental issues disappear.
I truly believe any player can become successful if utilised in the right way, we lost so many talented player due to this. The fact that they still perform elsewhere confirms it. Our systems needs so much work at this point it's ridiculous, but hopefully we figure it out.
There aren't any players thriving in the modern premierleague who need 2 and 3 touches in 5 yards of space to play their game. It's not a thing and if you can't adjust your game you won't succeed in this league.
Yep but playing attacking minded players as wingback or don't don't play to his strength won't help the situation, yh he gotto adjust or get sold but asking him to get better when we won't help the situation with our play doesn't make sense to me.
The level of the world cup as a competition is up for debate but that doesn't matter in this scenario, we've seen these players perform at club level also, sterling has been performing in the prem for years, others in their various leagues, does that count for nothing.
Of course it counts for nothing, they were perfoming under completely different circumstances. Sterling was surrounded by several of the most creative players in the league putting chances on a plate for him. Lukaku and Ziyech performed because they were playing in leagues that gave them space they're reliant on, space they will never get in the low blocks we face every other week. Havertz was performing in a role and position we had 0 intention of acconodating.
Everything you've said is valid, they were in different situations but it does count for something because we bought them to mirror those performances. You listed out 4 players, there are more, we buy players and don't utilize them properly is still clear to see. We got wingers playing wingback to accommodate one deficiency or the other, even in the attacking 3rd we look toothless even when we create, that isn't down to solely the players is what I'm saying.
>but it does count for something because we bought them to mirror those performances. No, it absolutely doesn't. You can't mirror those performances because the conditions they're playing in are vastly different. >You listed out 4 players, there are more, Like? >that isn't down to solely the players is what I'm saying. And I'm saying you are wrong.
The conditions are different but world class players thrive is different conditions that's what make them world class, you don't break transfer fees for what ifs, we all know that, it to provide similar level of performance. Timo werner was performing then we signed him and he hasn't been the same since then, I'm not saying the players are blameless I'm saying we don't try to help them with our style of play, we got wingers playing as wingbacks which makes no sense, we got players that were banging in goals for fun clueless in front of goal repeatedly, that makes zero sense
>The conditions are different but world class players thrive is different conditions Problem is we aren't signing world class forwards >Timo werner was performing then we signed him and he hasn't been the same since then Already covered him with Lukaku and Ziyech. Needs more space than he'll ever get playing for us
That's a very tunnel vision way of looking at it, every league present different challenges, timo and lukaku were considered world class at the point we bought them, our style of play didn't help improve them.
Harry Maguire looks competent at this level, that says it all mate.
It's the style of play. He plays 20× better in a low block where he can just use that massive frame to block everything. He was decent for United before Ole started thinking it was time to suddenly become a team that plays a high line.
At least Maguire looked competent in the PL too at one point
Let's be honest, harry isn't a good defender at best average but the way England plays covers all his flaws, it's not about him solely compared to united, the system helps bring the best out of him, at united with midfield of fred Scott most defenders would get killed. I honestly believe we don't help our attackers cause they go from world class to shit overnight at Chelsea
>Think it's time as Chelsea fans that we actually accept the fact that our attacking players aren't bad, They're absolutely terrible. Performing at a much lower standard of play like the world cup doesn't change that.
Think of it this way, we don't buy bums at Chelsea, if anything we overpay because we don't want to buy unproven or lesser known players, I'm saying these players don't become bums overnight. It's been a patterns for years now, we got so much proven talent and they all can't seem to perform but somehow get it going at the national level. We really gotto look inward cause it makes no sense.
>Think of it this way, we don't buy bums at Chelsea Our transfer record over the last few years says otherwise. For example Pulisic was absolutely shit at Dortmund and couldn't get into their team, it's not like he was pulling up trees before coming to us. Ziyech and Havertz performed in weaker leagues but have struggled in the prem. It's not like we've signed a lot of proven top talent that has struggled, We've just spend a lot of money on fairly average players that haven't been able to perform at the highest level under multiple managers unfortunately.
See if you think pulisic was shit at Dortmund that up for debate depending on how you want to look at it but we can all agree he was considered a top talent prior to his injury, and our transfer record hasn't been shit if we look at it on paper, timo was banging in goals for fun, havertz was considered a massive talent bayern wanted, sterling had over a hundred goals at city, hakim was a major player in the ajax team that had all of Europe in a choke hold, lukaku won the league with inter and scored a shit ton. Outta nowhere they're all bums now, that makes zero sense.
I'm sure Pulisic was doing well before picking up an injury not long before we bought him.
I am once again asking for Ziyech to be given half the chance our other attackers have been given.
Ziyech and Pulisic starting together with Kai as a 10 and a true 9 (Broja/Auba) is all I want.
If we ever get something good it's always got a monkey's paw style caveat, so expect if we ever see that it will be with Sterling at WB again and a Ruben, Gallagher midfield or something.
KDB's performance is an example of how even world class players who are at the peak of their careers struggle when the manager isn't good enough. In PL KDB does almost create 2- 3 chances per game, here against Morocco he has done fuck all except running his mouth with his expert commentary about Belgium team. What a game.
The system at Man City is perfect for him, it’s why he never really stands out for Belgium
Yup, Man City is built around the guy.
its built around endlessly moving the ball (usually after 1 touch), using space, and getting the ball back when they turn it over. any player capable of doing that regularly and consistently will look like the system is 'built' around them. pep has been running the same system since Barcelona. kdb is just a piece that fits perfectly in that system.
That's true, having watched that game it's surprising how poor even someone like him can be. It almost looked like KDB didn't give a shit.
Roberto Martinez should of been sacked before the last euros. Playing with 3 atb with two shit midfielders is never gonna be good
Funny how we're used to that. Even more when Reece / Chilly are out. Belgium even has De Bruyne and that isn't enough.
They are finished anyways, won't help too much
I know Ziyech has had some absolute stinkers for us, but seeing him ball out for Morocco makes me very happy. He deserves that.
Lakaka “We lost because Lautaro Martinez didn’t start”
Belgium are finished, they were incredibly lucky to beat Canada
Shouldn‘t surprise anyone tbh. They were carried by Hazard lots of times, De Bruyne never stood out for them like he should have considering his qualities and Lukaku is as out of form as Hazard is
Don't be so hard on Hazard, he's not at his best but he's better than Lukaku right now.
Incredible assist from Ziyech. Milan calling Boehly rn
Hi, Mr Boehly, we have found £359 in our bank account and are willing to offer it, and a panini for ziyech.
Warms my heart to see Courtois pick the ball out of his goal. 🐍
Habibi with the assist!!
And what an assist it was So sad that he just is not interested in playing for us
He can’t be interested with 5 minutes a game. People want to keep mentioning Dinamo but last I checked he ain’t the reason why chelsea is this bad this season. Best for player and club to part ways
Hard to be motivated when you’re always in and out
Martínez is a terrible coach, this Belgium squad should be getting out of the group stage with ease.
Sabiri the most reviled person in Belgium.
Kevin de Bruyne - Maybe Jose Was Right - Compilation 4K UHD World Cup 2022
Kepa would never
Courtois doing courtois tings
If anyone misses watching Chelsea play just watch Belgium
More like watch England when Kane doesn't have a good game.
Nah they aren’t as bad as chelsea, if you want to see Chelsea watch Englands performance against USA
Batshuayi is unbelievably shit. That guy was born offside
Probably would still score more goals than our current forwards to be honest lol
No, not at all
Bats played next to Pulisic at Dortmund for 6 months and looked levels above him. Scored more goals in half a season for Dortmund than Pulisic did any season in his career 😭 Terrible footballer but the man can get goals
Eden is finished. Can’t get past a player anymore at all. What a sad sight. I can’t stand it.
Just be glad we never had to see him like this in a Chelsea shirt.
Tbf we get the finished Hazard experience watching Pulisic and Ziyech
I think even nowadays, he’d do better than them 2 do for us. Also neither of them have done anything in a Chelsea shirt, so it doesn’t hurt as much seeing them underperform.
Ziyech not playing at least as much as the rest of our attackers who are equally as shit most of the time is criminal. Every single ball he puts in is so dangerous.
We don't have anyone to finish his crosses anyway. So he just loses possession
[удалено]
Dude he does the same stuff at Chelsea. All of his crosses are very dangerous and his passing range is much better than the rest of our attackers.
Exactly the problem. He tries to do the same stuff in much less space and time and fails constantly
[удалено]
All of them aren’t dangerous but against Belgium his passes have been pretty good
He takes risks, not something anyone else does. Yes it was a bit of an overexaggeration by me, but he does it quite often. The number of assists he would have if we had a player on the far post, as there should be, would be a lot bigger than he has so far.
"all his crosses" lol All his cameos have been atrocious this year. It will be better for him and us when he moves on. Talented guy but has never looked quite right in the Prem.
You’re being just as hyperbolic as OP by saying all his cameos have been atrocious. You’re so dramatic
Sadly, no.. I'm not.. [https://weaintgotnohistory.sbnation.com/2022/11/8/23446079/chelsea-0-1-arsenal-player-ratings-some-credit-to-the-defense](https://weaintgotnohistory.sbnation.com/2022/11/8/23446079/chelsea-0-1-arsenal-player-ratings-some-credit-to-the-defense) The guy has averaged a 4 across all appearances with his best being a 5.9 across fan ratings for all matches thus far. I think he's better than what he has offered us but yeah.. he has been god awful.
>"all his crosses" lol ? He was our best player against City when he started and didn't really play much in ages. Yes he was atrocious against Dinamo, but so was everyone else.
Why was that FK offside? No angle they showed seemed to confirm a Morocco player touched it.
He blocked the keepers view.
ziyech is a fighter
Woooooowwww