What’s the best street car for drivability AND power?

What’s the best street car for drivability AND power?


I think the question of price should come up real early in this conversation…


I was thinking about including that, but I didn’t want it to be a loaded question.


Power Handling Affordable \^pick 2 :D


Don't forget reliable! That's choice 2.5 lol




I think a C5/C6 Corvette satisfies all 3 fairly well. In their price bracket, Corvettes in general are near the top, even brand new.




I came here to say c5 corvette. Pretty fast in a straight line and in curves, and affordable compared to any new car.


C5’s are cheap and plentiful, but you’ll have to wade through some sellers that think they’re worth C8 prices. C5 Z06’s are the best bet if you can find one that wasn’t used hard.


And if you need more than 2 seats but same engine, get a camaro... amazing handling, and can mod the hell out of it


They get a lot of shit over the whole midlife crisis thing, and that like 90%(I joke, I kid) of them are autos driven by shrivly old men... But holy shit are they a fun car to drive.


I mean affordable is relative too.


You get can well balanced vehicles for good prices. The fast, reliable, cheap - pick 2 is much more accurate. The faster it is, there's usually a sacrifice in price or reliability. The more reliable it is, sacrificing price or speed. Cheap usually sacrifices speed or reliability, or in bad cases, both.


A lot of people would say a Porsche 911 Turbo S (if money isn't an issue) is the ultimate daily performance car - perfectly genteel when going around streets paired with insane speed and handling when desired. Oh, and you have back seats for storage.


I'd say even a regular 911 would fit this. They still have 300+ hp which is no slouch in that chassis.


Nearly every current Porsche would fit. Boxster? Enough power, very agile. Cayman? Enough power, very agile. 911?... Taycan? Fuckload of power, very agile. Hell, even their Suvs are rather good depending on how you spec them.


I mean, yes, that’s pretty much the space the 911 occupies. But a Turbo (and Turbo S) gets you all of that plus a stupidly fast engine. It’s close to the best GT car.


Around here, a Turbo S is more than twice what a Carrera costs. I've had great fun in both of them, but the Turbo S isn't twice as fun as the Carrera,


This is true at almost every level. Don’t think a base 911 is 2x as fun as a base Cayman either.


>I'd say even a regular 911 would fit this "even"


Let's be honest, something like 99% of cars made today are perfectly fine power and handling-wise for legal daily use. OP also left out comfort. Sure, a BAC Mono may be the best street car when it comes to power and handling, but good luck going over a speed bump or ever having a relaxing drive. This is why GT cars are the "best" daily performance cars. Astons, Bentley GT Continental, Rolls Wraith at the expensive end, and Audi A5/BMW 4 series/Mercedes E Class at the lower end are great. Nice styling, comfortable, quick enough, can be sporty but can also be tame when you want them to be.


Not gonna lie, bit disappointed they didn't make the new supra a GT car. It was never a 2 seater sports car. It was a big, comfy, powerful GT car.


The LC500 already exists though.


yes exactly! they should have developed the new supra alongside the lc500 just like the mk4 and z30 SC!


I haven't checked but I wouldn't be surprised if a new base Carrera starts with around 400hp.


I believe it's 379


Well, a regular 911 does nothing that a Turbo S doesn't do, and it has less performance. So it kinda loses by default on everything except price, and OP didn't make price a criteria.


I was going to go R8, but I'm bias after doing a good 500 miles in a friend's, via an exotic rally. It's fucking fantastic. AWD simply provides no slip off the line. Drop it to 6K at say 50mph and it pulls violently, and doesn't begin to slow until you're well past double the limit. The brakes, wow, a 150mph-60 jam is equally violent. The sweet sound it makes at start up, almost made me giggle. It's overall comfy too. A lot of people say it's a Huracan with better suspension and more headroom. Hand me 150K (no taxes) and I would buy one tomorrow and live a happy man.


What about the cayman lineup?


Porsche intentionally hamstrings the Cayman/Boxsters with their engines so they don’t encroach on the 911, which is obviously the flagship of the brand. The current Turbo S puts out 640 hp vs. the GT4’s 414 hp. Even with the weight difference that is significantly more power. But as far as fun goes, a lot of people would prefer a GT4, but it’s probably not as good of a daily on the streets for most.


As someone who had the fortune to daily a 981 GT4 for a few months, it's not a fun daily. But that car made up for it with the driving experience. The Turbo gives you backseats for storage.


What made you not like it as a daily?


I live in a city and without any sort of track available (no autoX either) and the heavy clutch gets old quick in traffic. It also doesn't have a lot of space for cargo and the ride is too stiff for getting around town. Back road driving is absolute heaven though. Still one of my top cars.


Haters gonna hate, but this is the right answer.


I've never , ever heard about anyone hating a 911. I have to agree , a 911 is the answer. It's basically what they are made to do , daily comfortable but track ready.


Jeremy Clarkson has entered the chat


M2 should be high on the list as well


M2 is pretty good for this, yeah. You sometimes have to be a little aggressive with it to be properly smooth but I find it pretty easy to drive. The DCT probably makes it even easier but mine's a manual.


I know the 7 speed is faster but manual is just way more fun.


Funny enough I went from a '15 WRX to a 21' M2C. Totally agreed.


'15 WRX to an '18 M3 here. I used to think the WRX was fast lmao.


M2 was likely going to be my next car until I bought an Elise. I test drove an M2 Competition (non-manual; I was dead set on a manual trans, though) and absolutely loved it. It accelerated effortlessly. The engine and exhaust were orgasmic.


I'm very jealous of your Elise! That's a wonderful car and I would love to have one.


It’s such a great car, man! I hope if you ever get the opportunity to own one, you’ll jump on it pronto. My only real regret with it is that I didn’t buy one sooner. [Here is a pic](https://i.redd.it/ytbvtcfpkdo71.jpg) of my 2 cars together


that blue is amazing!


interesting that you have 2 sports cars. I thought you might have a more useful 2nd car


86 is as useful as I need, tbh. And because I have 2 sports car, nobody ever bothers me for rides like they used to when I owned a sedan. On top of all that, none of my close friends can drive manual transmission cars, so as soon as they found out both my cars are manual, they never asked if they can borrow my cars for fun. Win for me. As for “useful” cars, my mom’s old car finally broke down in July. I ended up buying her a Corolla hatchback. She doesn’t drive it much, so if I *ever* need more space than my 86 offers, I swing by her house and take the Corolla for a spin.


Team Elise! Although, I might suggest that you get your R supercharged. The Elise is good normally, it's beyond phenomenal when you double its output. Mine has 301hp and it just takes it to another level. Not only do you retain all your exceptional cornering and handling shenanigans, but you can hit 140+ in no time when you want to. Mine particularly does 0-60 in 3-3.5 seconds, but it's a 10k supercharger package. If you can spare it, DO IT.


I’m definitely interested, but I’ll be honest: I’m not mechanically inclined. I’d have to pay someone to install a supercharger for me. It makes me worry about the overall cost of going FI. I’ve been wanting to supercharge my 86 as well. I feel it would be the greatest daily driver for me with just a tad bump in power, but alas, it’ll cost quite a bit to mod the 86, too.


M2 plus M3 and M4 (f80/f82) if you need more space. Downpipes and tune and it’s a reliable 500whp daily.


I prefer the M2 to the M4 by a mile, BUT, if it was my only car (wife and 9yo), I’d still get an M2 and make the kiddo deal with it


Sad M4 noises. All seriousness though the M4 doesn't weigh all that much more than the M2, especially depending on how you have each spec'd out which means the M2 is a bit of a chonker. I've driven one as well and it's a blast but mother of god is the M4 a rocket ship


The M2 should be 3300 lbs and would be far more impressive. I was really unimpressed with the base M2 I drove


What about the M235i? Slight step down in power, but still an excellent excellent car.


It's pretty much a perfect daily coupe, although in M240i guise it's better because the B58 is both more reliable and more effortlessly driveable than the N55. Plus there are a few interior updates for 18-21 (17 has the old interior like the M235i).


Yeah, this list wouldn’t be complete without a Beamer.


To be totally pedantic it’s actually “bimmer” for cars and “Beemer” for motorcycles.


Fuck, I still say Honda Cars.


"Sim Simma, who got the keys to my Beamer?" - Beanie Man


The ride comfort is awful though. I had an M2C for a year and it was one of the reasons I sold it.


I mean she's a big bitch, but I think a new Mustang GT PP or Mach 1 (or Camaro SS 1LE) handles way better than the weight figure might have you believe... and obviously there is no shortage of power on tap. Aside from that, assuming we're talking sub-six-figures, you got STi's, the new Z (probably), certain near-luxury performance trims (M2s and the like)... That's about all I got. If I had to pick one, I'm going with the 'Stang. It's the reason I bought one (and have a Mach 1 on order). I've owned and/or extensively driven many of the most popular cars from the most popular brands, and the Mustang just checks all the most important boxes for me, including those that are relevant to this post. EDIT: Slight wording change since I overstated how many cars I've driven...


I have a gt pp with the magneride. It handles competently, but the steering feels pretty dead so it's not nearly as fun imo.


Cayman. Like a Miata but with some extra power.


Can confirm. They're not crazy fast in a straight line but it balances so well with that chassis. And a surprising amount of luggage space too.


I had the choice of a 2019 Miata vs a 2006 Boxster S. The Boxster was cheaper but more roomy, refined, and faster. Will be more expensive to own but seems like a reasonable trade off.


Same situation I was in! I was looking at NA miatas, noticed 986 boxters were slightly more expensive. Walked away with a boxter. Yea the upkeep is more expensive but I don’t regret one bit of my decision.


Aston Martin Cygnet


It's amazing what Aston Martin is able to accomplish with pure laziness lol


it’s amazing what Aston Martin can accomplish when they need to improve their “fleet average” MPG but don’t actually want to make anything.


Yeah, laziness lolol. British Leyland striketh again!


They also massively improved their fleet average reliability with it.


Holy shit I thought this car was a joke but it's real.


The Cygnet is no joke


The cygnet is life


Specifically the v8 one. Not the dinky 1.3l one.


Wait, where did they find room for a V8 and a driver in that car?!


By making it wider than long.


I think the corvette has got to be in the mix. It’s got power and drivability. Buy a non z06 and not break the bank.


Z06 gives you a lot more driving potential. The base models feel watered down (I own a base)


I don’t know I have a C7Z06 and it just has too much power for the road. Looking at getting a Cayman GTS 4.0 or GT4 next (still keeping the C7Z though haha).


Yeah it’s definitely a fast car. Sometimes it’s more fun driving a slow car fast haha.


Audi RS3, BMW M2, and if you're on a smaller budget, Veloster N or Mk7.5 VW GTI/R


Alfa Giulia Quadrifoglio. 505 HP when you need it. Smooth driving if not.


2021 911 Carrera S Coupe. A Cayman GTS 4.0 is a STRONG candidate as well.


The new Boxster GTS 4.0 is a strong forever car candidate.


Naturally Aspirated is love


Don't get me wrong, I love a good turbo shove, but a Porsche flat 6 singing to 8k+ rpm will always sound good.


There are a lot of variables for the “best.” However, some good ones are: WRX, M240i, Supra, TTS, CLA35, Golf R, and many others. These days really are a golden era of cars. There are so many great things out there that you can absolutely find what you want. I just can’t guarantee it will meet your price point,


M240i and Golf R are kind of the perfect middle ground. They aren't as expensive to maintain as the M2C or RS3, but also do about 85% of what those cars do with more compliant suspension.


Have to agree on the Golf R. I'm bias because I got one earlier this year, but I had a Miata ND and E63 AMG. The E63 is insane and I do miss it, but even though it's a performance beast it's just a bit boaty. The Golf R with a quick software tune puts it in the very low 4's or even high 3's 0-60, along with being possibly the smallest 4-door in that performance range. It feels probably 90% as nimble as the Miata, 80% as fast as the E63, and a very good middle ground on price and size.


What year R did you get? I wanted an 18+ until used car prices went through the damn roof. It seemed like a nice sweet spot for cars/price.


I got my 19 golf r in November 2019 for 38,9. Could even trade it in for no loss at the moment 2 years later. It's insane.


M240i has been an amazing daily driver for me. Great in the snow too with the xdrive. I don't feel I'm missing much from the m2 at all. 2 years in and zero issues. Must change the stock runflats however.


slap some PS4S :D


Mine came with Pilot Super Sports. I have a set of winters in separate rims for winter too. I'm 4 years in now with no issues and at 67k. N54 and N55 BMWs were already having issues by the same amount of time and mileage.


Would also suggest a GLA45 AMG having only been a passenger


Those are great too. They are an absolute blast to drive.


Would also like to say the newer e63s wagons are insane. Salesman took us for a test drive in one while waiting for the GLA paperwork to get done


Sure, but they are outside the price range of all but a few so I left them off the list.


True. You could even argue that a Hellcat handles really well.


With the wide body they are pretty good. No one would call them time-attack cars but they are pretty good.


BMW 340i. 400+ HP with a downpipe and tune.


The M340i is already at 382hp without a tune, is it not? I don't see a point in tuning for 18 HP. The B58 can easily get to 430 reliably. Over 500 and you're probably going to need more other parts.


I was just talking about my old 2016 340i, should have been more specific. BMW leaves a good chunk of horsepower on the table just from tuning, pretty tempting to just plug in and get that extra power.


Oh shit. I forgot they made that for a few years before renaming it with the G20. Sorry dude.


Why not have both? LS swapped miata.


It’s a good idea for sure. Myself, I’m not a big fan of Miatas, but I’ve never driven one so I guess I wouldn’t understand the hype.


Drive one! As someone who owns a 2015 mustang gt and a 95 Miata I never have full ass smiles on my face in the mustang like I do the Miata. Yeah I get those grins in the mustang from the sound and doing a pull but nothing like the Miata. When I first got my Miata last summer completely changed the way I view a car


I need to find one I can take for a spin, to see if it would have been a better choice than my Z4


I've driven both. Depends on your useage. The miata is more raw, connected, and fun to drive. The Z4 is a lot more livable and refined. I'd want to be in the miata going through twisty mountain roads on the weekend. I'd want to be in the Z4 if I had to drive 200 miles to get to those roads.


I went from a 4th gen Formula to a third gen MR2 and I completely agree. Power is far from everything, weight and maneuverability can compensate for that.


Do it and you will change your mind! I miss my old one…


Probably worth a test drive. You might find some of the quicker ones are nippy enough for you. Pretty sure the 2.0 NDs are quite quick, and they probably feel faster than they are due to the ride height and wind in your hair. Depends on your budget. Another good option is a porsche boxster.


GR yaris practicality of yaris but fast


If you want mods, but reliability isn't necessarily the most important thing, BMW E90 335i is a great call. Can make ridiculous power and still be quite comfortable.


I have a 135i for a project car (same engine and such as 335i) and it's honestly been fantastic. It's far from perfect, but I've been very pleased with the engine and handling of the car so far, and despite everything I'm doing to it, it's pretty good right out of the box.


I daily my GT350 and I can say it does everything perfectly. Got plenty of power and precision handling for the mountain roads.


What kinda mpg are you averaging?


About 13mpgs


Thats about the same as my Ford ranger 4.0 on the highway @80mph lol. That thing is more inefficient than coal power plants. And the GT350 isn't even comparable in noise, or anything at all really. Honestly 13mpgs for that kinda fun seems OK.


Over nearly 23k miles, life time average is 14mpg. That includes the 6mpg for 120 miles a day i get on track which i do 3-5 times a year. Hwy mpg is like 24 though, so it's not that bad of road trip car.


Believe me. It ain’t good.


I love my 300zx, so I'd go with the new Z. Would be plenty of power for the street and things would actually work - AC, radio, not sound like a clunky deathtrap :D


Golf R. It's got pretty much everything going for it.


I'm moving to the Midwest US soon, and considering a Golf R to replace my Mazdaspeed3. Is that reasonable?


My Golf has been a dream in MN. Depends on where you are in the Midwest, but snowtires might be advised.


> Golf R Agreed pre-MK8. I think VW is going to have to do an emergency interior refresh to save the MK8 generation. They destroyed the ergonomics, which Golfs were famous for nailing.


It’s truly a shame VW went to this new bs design language. It was one of the only understated styling (in a good way) and ergonomic brands.


I love my 17. Perfect mix… first year with adaptive cruise, last with an analog dash.


It aslo has the [gray wavy texture ](https://i.imgur.com/JqIQaOa.jpg)on the dash instead of that ugly piano black plastic.


RS3>Golf R


I wish they went forward with actually producing the R420. I would have given them all of my money.


A simple tune and a couple of bolt on parts will get a mk7 Golf R close to an RS3 if you need a hatch. Kiss the powertrain warranty goodbye, though.


RS3 but I'm biased.


Audi S4/5 I’m biased :-)


2nd lol


Love my S4. Objectively, it is hilariously fast for a regular car. I have a stealth hitch, lug around my mountain bike, fill it with Home Depot crap, drive it to work, and it does all of that without a complaint. It’s usually full of sand, dirt and junk but cleans up nice.


True. So easy to run 10s in an s4 while still being a good daily. All for 20k


My friend, my wrx and your Audi have the same fundamental issue and that is... due to the design of our symmetrical awd systems The engine hangs out AHEAD of the front axle and it's simply not where you want it to be in a sports car. It belongs BEHIND the front axle for best results. The engine has leverage ahead of the front axle vs behind the front axle because Inertia and stuff it causes almost terminal understeer at the limit. Ya suspension tuning can mitigate alot of it but it still wouldn't have the balance of a properly designed rwd chassis out of the box.


Does literally anybody but a small handful of track enthusiasts drive these cars close enough to the limit to actually experience noticeable understeer?


I was gonna say, two of my closets friends have WRXs and they both tell me they feel like they can't even approach the limit of those cars on public roads. Honestly, even my slow ass 11 outback, I've only felt close to it's "limit" as far as traction in a corner a few times in the 100K miles I've owned it. Makes me wonder what guys here do with their cars ? Do they all do track days with their dailys? Do they drive like absolute psychopaths ? Are my friends and a just terrible drivers and our cars are secretly capable of another plane of grip that only a few select redditors have been able to unlock ?


I grew up karting, so the track bug got me early. Going from a RWD car with 50/50 weight distribution to my WRX it was immediately apparent once I began to push it on an open lapping event. But you are right >95% of people simply won't encounter it as they don't approach the limits of their vehicle (shouldnt on the street anyway). There's no trophy with open lapping, it's not a competition move over for faster cars and slower cars let you pass.


More so the s5 if its the sportback just for the daily


*Lotus Evora has entered the chat*


I tried to daily my Evora GT but it kept breaking


People really hate to admit it but a Mustang is often the answer people are looking for.


r/cars hate them, but I’d recommend the EcoBoost Mustang. They have 310HP and handle well. Even my heavy ass convertible version has a 5.5 0-60 time. Best of all they are cheap. Before the COVID car craziness you could get a new one for around $22K. For an extra $600 you can buy a tune from Ford that bumps you to 345HP and 426 ft/lb of torque. This tune maintains the factory power train warranty. On the daily side. They get good fuel economy, the trunk is large, and the back seat can fit a kid or a couple of overnight bags. Larger people fit in them well. I’m 6’4 300LB and I have plenty of room.


The tune part is interesting. Can you get that at a dealer?


You can get it anywhere that sales Ford Performance parts. To maintain your warranty it needs to be installed by an ASE Certified mechanic.


I picked the Camaro and even I agree Mustang is the correct answer.


my thoughts also.. higher end ones are a good contender


It really is. Even a base model GT which is under 40k is a blast to drive all around.


Pre-covid they could be had for some great prices. Base GTs could be had for low $30Ks. I purchased mine new (Premium, PP1, active exhaust, $46K msrp) for $40K OTD with extended warranty and all fees/taxes. What it offers for that price is definitely hard to beat.


Supra mk5?


This is my answer too. Solid overall car and the stock power is more than enough honestly. Priced well and can give room for mods wherever needed.


18 or newer mustang GT. 460hp 0-60 in 4 seconds tops out at 160 $35k new and is a great driver.


Cayman GT4


This is my attainable dream car.


I think that’s about the most perfect example honestly.


GT4 is by no means the best street car, the suspension is damn harsh, it’s super low, and I’m not sure if it even has front axle lift GTS4.0 on the other hand…


And the gearing is incredibly tall. 2nd redlining at 76 mph means you can’t even legally hit the 2->3 shift at redline


I think there are lots of right answers. I am partial to the 340i as that is what I drive. Plenty of other tools for the job but it can do crazy and pedestrian without any fuss.


Just bought a 2022 Genesis G70 sport. Great car to drive. Rear biased AWD, which can send up to 100% of the power to the rear. Comes with an LSD, pilot sport tires, brembo brakes on all 4 wheels. Also had a staggered tire setup, with wider tires in the rear. Tested it against an IS350 fsport and a tlx type-s. It blew both of those out of the water. Also, looks really great as well. https://imgur.com/gallery/oXwNhAM


Nice pickup. The IS500 is what I’m looking out for 👀


Obvious bias here, but I love my Stinger GT2. It is quick, comfy, good value for money, a great cruiser, and has a lot of room with the fastback 4 door design.


ofc I'm biased too but it's just great value for cash. It's not a cheap car by any means but for the price you really get a lot.


Audi's RS3 is coming to the US next year Dual clutch, 400hp(?), AWD Daily driver, year round, take it to the track and keep up with all the race cars


The RS3 is already here.


If only they'd bring the damn hatchback here. I have no interest in the stupid little sedan, but I'd already own an RS3 instead of my R if they gave us the hatchback.


My mk7 gti


This is the way.


New toyota corolla GR when it releases next year or year after. Everything you love about the old corolla, but with 300hp and awd. And should be around 33k.


Good luck finding it at anywhere close to $33k lol. I'm willing to bet most dealers mark it up to at least $40k and end up killing the car the same way Ford dealers did with the Focus RS.


Stealership will mark up those Corolla GR like they did Civic Type R.. sucks living in the USA


I really love my M235i. A couple mods and you can get 360hp, and when you put it in comfort mode it makes for awesome road trips!!


I've been looking for an m235i but can't believe how expensive they've gotten during the pandemic. In 2019 similar m235i's I was interested in were $7k-8k less than they are now.


I’d say my Veloster N but, it’s not break your neck fast. On the high end probably the 911 turbo S. Middle ground I’d say the new GT500.


Lexus GSF Can chuck it like a Miata, accelerates like a modern Mustang GT, gears are long AF, sounds amazing, 4drs, comfortably and reliable. Best baby hauler daily driver track toy attack the mountains at night car I've owned, and I 110% would own another. That aside, a 2020 BMW M340i - 0-60 is in the 3's, and they handle and drive well.


my 2018 Accord 2.0 sport was a hoot


Those things are underrated from the factory. “252HP” yeah right, it makes that at the wheels at least.


A Toyota Prius THE POWER!!!!!!!😂


I wish somebody would "hack" the Prius to use its EV motor "for evil" (like Porsche) rather than economy.


RS7/RS6, E63S, GT 63 S


If money was no option…. 991 911 GT3 Touring /thread


Nissan gtr r35


Crazy that no one else said this. The only downside to driving my gtr is that if I floor it I'm speeding almost immediately.


2021 911 Turbo S no question about it. one of the fastest new cars you can buy, good in all weather, extremely quick, handles great, looks great, has four seats, pdk is amazing, and just look at the thing.


Easy. Hellcat swapped Miata.


a cars drivablity depends on the power to weight ratio. in corners, a car like a miata are really fun, in corners a car like the hellcat is ironically hell, because its so fucking heavy. on a straightaway, you'll have a lot more fun with a hellcat. depends on what you want to get out of it, i would say an m3, or a siliva would be the best of both worlds, modest power, and not too heavy.


I have a ‘14 accord coupe with a 6 cylinder and 6 speed. Fantastic vehicle.


Nobody really talks about it from a new car perspective but you can throw a Jackson Racing C38 supercharger (or other FI options, but the C38 stands out as a reliable option) on a Toyota GT86/Subaru BRZ and have a car that does both really well and serves as a platform for even more drivability.


The golf R is just an excellent all rounder. Amazing to cruise long distances in and also great to go pedal to the metal if you're feeling enthusiastic.


I plan on getting a golf R the day I decide my knees can't handle a manual for a daily driver in the city.


Imo the new Miata fits that bill (slightly biased). I feel like the 20-80 time is what I mostly experience in real world driving power wise, and I have no complaints there. Maybe a supercharged ND?


Yeah, I'm biased as well, but the ND2 has plenty of power.


Agreed. It *feels* fast and that's what's important for fun. The HP doesn't matter as much as power to weight.


6th gen camaros hadle very well and if you get either V8 it’s pretty fast.


Came to say a ss 1le or gt pp2. The MRC on the camaro is great for daily driving. No personal experience with the mustang, but I'm sure it's great too. I've put 70k miles DDing mine and never regretted it a single day.


Late to this but I think the V6 is great as well, 1le or not. 0-60 in 5.1 and a fairly smooth powerband,