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'Something's got to give': Restaurants slash hours, trim menus as worker shortage cuts deep

'Something's got to give': Restaurants slash hours, trim menus as worker shortage cuts deep

MSevenzer

There's a reason MB doesn't give grants or small business support to restaurants anymore, and hasn't for a long time. Even before covid they were a revolving door only lasting a couple years tops, only the cream of the crop rose to the top. I just see covid accelerating that. We have too many restaurants for how little purchasing power most people have, I'm amazed there's clientelle to keep so many in operation even in the good times.


DDP200

One thing that never gets talked about. For rich countries, Canadians eat out the most in the world. We even passed the USA in this regard. Canadians eat out 40% more than people in the EU. We over time will likely get closer to them. We will need fewer restaurants and staff in total.


Rinzler2o

I wonder if it has to do with folks in Europe having more time away from work to cook for themselves?


CalgaryChris77

That is part of it, it’s just what is considered the norm there though. I remember going on a vacation to a different country with some family from Europe and for all 3 meals a day they wanted to return to the room and make food. I tried to explain that I didn’t pay that much to go on vacation halfway around the world to spend half the time in the room making food, not to mention experiencing food was a big part of travel to me.


Magikarp-Army

Eating out was way more expensive there


realcanadianbeaver

I think it also has to do with a need for socializing indoors in cold weather in a place where distances between places are far. How many times do you want to go to the same local small museum or art gallery? Unless you’re from one of the main centres, a lot of times your only meetup points are going for a meal or a drink for a lot of the year.


MSevenzer

Guess I'm just not in those social circles lol. To my group/family a restaurant is a once every 2-3 months type of thing for special occasions. Not something you go to just because.


bretstrings

The amount of eating out young people do is insane. Lots of youths, income high and low, blow a substantial portion of their wage just on eating out.


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sookahallah

lol in this day and age they can learn to cook almost anything on youtube i don't think it's -- don't know how it's -- they don't want to or lazy imo


alexanderfsu

Don't care to learn to cook.*


Human-ish514

Being on the low end, eating out meant that the food that I bought ended up in my own mouth. For 5 or so years, while I technically had access to fridges and kitchens, there either was never enough space to cook/store food, or shitty roommates would steal the food that I bought and lie to my face. Eating out meant that I didn't have to keep buying forks and spoons that would only just get stolen. I know what you mean though. People eat out a lot.


mt_pheasant

The amount that kids, who live at home and have access to free food, do is doubly insane. At one point, not eating out was a reasonable way to save money which could be used to buy a house. However when a house goes up 100k per year, that 50 bucks a week on tacos or whatever is basically inconsequential. I don't begrudge them for giving up and enjoying that aspect of life.


lubeskystalker

Including fast food? The, "Oh fuck I don't have time to cook so I'll just hit on my way." I sit in a restaurant probably 6-12 times/year for birthdays and things, but I can't say the same about things like drive through, that might be once a week.


MrCanzine

Yup, I think the "Ah crap there isn't time to prepare dinner" crowd is supporting a large portion of the take-out industry.


MSevenzer

Only fast food I eat is when A&W or McDonalds has BOGO Bacon N Eggers or some type of breakfast coupon. Can't go wrong with a $4 breakfast, but they don't have those promo's very often here.


Onionsteak

There's always coupons in the mcdonald app, you don't really need mailers anymore.


TheLuminary

I have friends who eat out every day of the week. I don't get it, but they both hate to cook and have good paying jobs. /shrug


Remarkable-Spirit678

When I was in the office, I went out for lunch almost every day. It was a chance to get out of the office for a bit and socialize with some co-worker friends. But now that I work from home, I never go out for lunch anymore. I just make lunch here at home. I suspect a lot of restaurants will suffer because of this.


thewolf9

Why don't you get it? People like socializing.


Aces8ights

> Canadians eat out 40% more than people in the EU. We over time will likely get closer to them. We will need fewer restaurants and staff in total This is a contradictory statement. Seems to me like the market has adjusted to the higher demand, so we don't "need" fewer anything.


NoApplication1655

This came to my mind recently. I might be completely biased because I don’t eat out often, but even still, food places seem super saturated. I live in a fairly suburban place, and right behind me is a strip mall with 6 different restaurants which are typically dead every time I drive past. Seems like this could be one problem.


binlagin

COVID have proved restaurants are really on the decline. Only the top of the top niche restaurants will survive and the big fast food chains. Cooking isn't really that hard of a skill to learn... it's just time consuming and labor intensive. With a huge chunk of the workforce WFH, they have time to prepare and cook a good meal. Watch a youtube video and you can make better food then 9/10 restaurants you get. Unless you are paying 75$+ for a meal... you can probably make the same thing at home with minimal experience and at the fraction of the price.


MSevenzer

I always suggest people try those "meal in a box" type services like goodfood or other ones. They're pricey but still cheaper than restaurants, and just get a few meals for a few weeks and you get recipe cards for them and everything. Can drop the subscription any time. You learn that it's all in the spices. The meals themselves only take like 20 minutes to cook, if you had to prep it all without the pre-sized portions add on like 5 minutes. But they're so simple anyone can do them, and once you learn what kinds of spices and sauces they're using you can just go and emulate that yourself.


2cats2hats

When these services came out I sorta rolled my eyes...like "c'mon cooking isn't THAT hard!" But this is a great reason why some would use them. EDIT: Keep downvoting whoever you are and your alt accounts.


plasmonconduit

I'm in the eye-rolling camp myself, but I see how the bridge product may be useful for people who are pressed for time or discouraged by eating their own cooking because they aren't quite there yet. Hopefully these act as a starting point for more exploration and don't just trap their users into an expensive service!


MSevenzer

You're getting a restaurant quality meal for like $10-$12 is why I like them. But I am not a constant subscriber, just a few boxes here and there. Some of those recipes are in my regular rotation now though I liked them so much. And the guides are so step by step that I slowly learned how to do more than stir frys and BBQ stuff.


Infidel29

Reminds me of the movie "Demolition Man" where the only restaurant to survive was taco bell. Maybe food trucks will become the restaurants of the future? Much less overhead, and can travel to the patrons.


TauCabalander

> Reminds me of the movie "Demolition Man" where the only restaurant to survive was taco bell. Try not to get really angry about this but ... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=STwEqxtjMCU > For some non-American releases, references to Taco Bell were changed to Pizza Hut. This includes dubbing, plus changing the logos during post-production. Taco Bell remains in the closing credits. In the Swedish release the subtitles still use Taco Bell while the sound and picture has been altered as above. The original version released in Australia (on VHS) contained Taco Bell, yet the newer version on DVD was changed both in logo and dubbing to Pizza Hut (in the scene where the restaurant patrons are looking through the glass windows to the fight scene outside, **Taco Bell can be seen etched into the glass**, even in the modified version).


KeyStoneLighter

My SO got a text from her former employer with a job offer at his new restaurant, she hasn’t heard from him since she quit 7 years ago.


plasmonconduit

From the first paragraph of the article: > The cooks he had left were complaining about working double shifts through the weekends, lunches and dinners, to keep the restaurant running, clocking as many as 36 hours in three days. Hmm, I wonder why this is an unpopular industry to work in at the moment. I really can’t figure it out. Maybe the workers are just too entitled. /s


lostandfound8888

Someone needs to make the argument that forcing people to work more than x number of hours without a significant break creates conditions akin to slavery and should be outright prohibited and take it to court (regardless of whether we are talking about short order cooks or ER nurses).


CheekyFroggy

Skeleton crews, long hours, overworked, hangry piece of shit entitled Karen customers, being so overworked that you're set up to fail, wage theft (such as forcing servers to pay for dine-and-dashers - that shit isn't even fucking legal, you are a server *not* loss prevention, you are **not responsible** to pay for customer theft - but restaurants know that most staff is highly unlikely to fight against it and their jobs get dangled over their heads over it - it's disgusting.)


Unsterder

Fuck off. I work 12hr days 7 days a week. It‘s not slavery and I want to do it.


[deleted]

Congrats, you're not part of his point.


jaywinner

> forcing people You missed a part. If you want to do it, this doesn't apply to you.


NavigateByAstrology

> “I got eight resumés,” she said. “To be honest with you, some of them had no experience.” Boo fucking hoo. How do you think people get experience? I have zero sympathy for managers offering minimum wage, or less than minimum wage in the provinces that still allow that, while also turning up their nose at new employees.


VideoGame4Life

Yep. I had been a stay at home mom so only had 3.5 years experience in a minimum wage job. I kept being told how desperate the local places in my small town were to hire. And yet it took someone who I had worked with who now is a manager at a different place to tell the owners to give me a chance. I’m in my third week and the owners seem happy with me.


BucketsnG10ves

"Something's got to give" Yeah, you've got to give your employees a liveable wage. You're buying their time and labor, and they've decided the price you're paying isn't worth it anymore.


hyperbole_everyday

70% of restaurants in Canada go out of business in the first 3 years. You act like these owners are living like kings while paying their employees a pittance. The issue is clearly more complicated than "Just pay your employees more money".


I-Cook_cats1

Yes we'll everything is more expensive. That's not a restaurant thing. Food is expensive. Housing is expensive. Everything. I dont see anyone clamoring for rent to be more affordable- so I don't see your point. The solution is to treat restaurant employees better. If you can't do that I guess you can't have a restaurant.


hyperbole_everyday

You're right. If they do what you suggest, they *literally* can't have a restaurant, as they'll go out of business. With conditions as they *currently* are 70% already fail in their first 3 years.


twelvis

While that's obviously what needs to be done, the issue is that current business models can't support that. The entire industry was built on the assumption of an infinite and unending supply of cheap labour. Commercial rents aren't dropping and suppliers aren't cutting prices either. Our whole economy is built on cheap labour, and low-wage, low-margin industries imploding is just the tip of the iceberg.


dr1nfinite

After these restrictions the only places with enough money to outpay the storm will be big franchises. That's horrible.


Hudre

Canada needs sectoral bargaining so that baseline protections and standards are put into place for entire sectors. This way corporations can compete on price rather than competing on squeezing every employee for as little as they can pay them.


bretstrings

There is nothing stopping that. A number of European countries don't even have a legislated minimum wave because workers actually know how to negotiate.


Hudre

I know thats where I stole the idea from!


WallflowerOnTheBrink

How do you negotiate against TFWs?


I-Cook_cats1

Lol right. Every restaurant I know is booming with business despite restrictions. The vast majority of people in my province at least are able to go to restaurants now. Unvaxxed are a very tiny minority of people


[deleted]

I have an idea on how to equalize the large franchise restaurants involving taxing their parent companies into the fucking dirt.


bretstrings

Yes, because multinationals are unable to move their wealth around to avoid taxes. /s


[deleted]

Oh no what will we do without McDonald’s and Wendy’s. how will we ever survive if Tim Hortons closed all Canadian locations.


bretstrings

Is it though? In my experience the big franchises have better quality, prices and service. The problem is that few of the franchises are Canadian.


SweetChild_O_Mine

Smaller businesses are getting screwed here they have to have pay their rents, and suppliers and everything is getting costlier for them. The wallmarts etc have no issue. What you are essentially saying is fuck the little guy we only want the big corporations which is terrible.


quietlydesperate90

Maybe we just have too many fucking restaurants in general.


hibbs6

If the small businesses can't pay their employees a better wage than the big corps, then yeah, they should go under.


SweetChild_O_Mine

That’s terrible.


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vashlion

It’s weird how people here go all raaa raa captialism but the second we apply it to smaller businesses we’re all like “poor small business owner”


SweetChild_O_Mine

Creating an uneven playing field is not capitalism it’s cronyism.


IveChosenANameAgain

Then your problem is with capitalism itself, because the entire purpose of it is to create an uneven playing field. Time to do some internal self-reflection, buddy.


WazzleOz

Why is it when an employee fails at their job and is fired, or a tenant is shitty with their rent money and gets evicted everyone rightfully tells the person that they're to blame and practice some personal accountability, but when it's a business owner or landlord failing to budget their business and the risk they invested in doesn't work out, it's everyone's fault but theirs?


TheLuminary

So.. you are saying that we should accept people being paid nearly slave wages, so that small mom and pop restaurants can survive? If you actually feel that way, why don't you switch to working for one of these business on the wages that they pay.


SweetChild_O_Mine

The cost of living, housing, inflation etc We have a PM who doesnt think about monetary policy and is planning on flooding the country with immigration. That is the big issue.


vashlion

Sorry regardless of how you feel, the stagnant and shit wages in restaurants have been a problem for a very long time. Long before Trudeau.


SweetChild_O_Mine

The CPI is over 4%, highest it has been for decades https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.marketwatch.com/amp/story/canada-annual-cpi-rises-4-1-in-august-highest-level-since-2003-update-271631712112


vashlion

This isn’t a counter argument to what I said at all.


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Void_Bastard

Trimming menus is a good thing. Not paying staff adequate wages a bad thing.


Omz93_

>Trimming menus is a good thing. Gordon Ramsey would be proud, lol.


Void_Bastard

It makes perfect sense and Gordon knows it. Better for the cooking staff to master a few dishes than to have them unfamiliar with many dishes.


Omz93_

Oh yeah, that wasn't sarcasm lol I watched a lot of Kitchen Nightmares in my time and that was always one of the issues with the restaurants on the shows.


Void_Bastard

Without fail he would have them reduce the size of their menu, and it was always one of the better changes he would make. Boy do I ever miss Kitchen Nightmares UK.


Disposable_Canadian

Minimum wage is adequate for a basic entry level job, and experience as a cook or a trained chef warrants better pay and opportunity.


CountVonOrlock

I worked a lot harder as a dishwasher making $11 an hour than I currently do making $26


[deleted]

Minimum wage should be enough to get by on, though. It isn't in a lot of places, unless you work multiple jobs or insane hours. Therefore minimum wage is very much not adequate at the moment.


bretstrings

The problem is we try to set minimum qage at the provincial level, instead of municipal. It makes no sense to have the same minimum in downtown Toronto as The suburbs in Sarnia.


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StaticShock9

This line of thinking is outdated and needs to disappear forever.


PETBOTOSRS

Especially since careers ***also*** don't pay enough for the cost of living of most urban centers.


bretstrings

I mean, that right there should tell you the problem isn't minimum wage laws. The problem is our economy is shit and we keep electing governments to run it the same way.


Justleftofcentrerigh

Looks like we found the small business owner/bootstrapper. No longer exploit the minwage labour. Gets mad on reddit.


[deleted]

No, minimum wage is meant to be livable. Not luxurious, but enough to get by. The cost of living increased dramatically while minimum wage did not keep up. That ain't good.


bretstrings

>The cost of living increased dramatically while minimum wage did not keep up. No wages kept up. The problem isn't the minimum wage, its the whole economy. Everyone complaining about employers vs employees (on either side) is missing the problem entirely. We can fight about how we split a tiny pie OR we can make the pie bigger in the first place.


[deleted]

Shut up


Unique-Highway-2845

Pay more or go out of business. The country would be a better place if we spent less money on restaurants to be honest.


serb2212

Its not a worker shortage. Its a "the job sucks, the pay sucks, management sucks, and the customers suck" shortage. Fix those, and the staff will come. It's hilarious when someone making 95,000/year says "these waiters are so lazy..making 9/hour and tips to get yelled at and screamed at and shit on by managers, no breaks, no nothing. So lazy and ungrateful." Lol


lakeviewResident1

Have you tried paying them more? Seriously who the hell wants to work minimum wage at a restaurant. Not paid enough to live. Dealing with asshole customers all day. Treated like a nothing by the employer. No job security. Restaurant industry can step up or step off. Quit bullshitting us with "oh woe is me, we have a worker shortage and my local mom and pop donut shop is going to go under." Cry me a river. Charge a dollar more per donut and raise the wage of your employees.


Xpalidocious

The biggest let down for me was when the minimum wage in Alberta went up to $15, so now me and the servers finally made the same....oh yeah except if you count tips. She made $225 one night and I made $160 wage and tips. She worked 5, I worked 10.


UpperLowerCanadian

Sounds like your tip sharing needs updating and you need to ask why you aren’t getting overtime, math doesn’t work out. When minimum wage went up most cooks started making 16-20 plus tips. Around here anyways


bretstrings

Lol what kind of suckers still tip if waiters get the same min wage as everyone? Its more understandavle in places where wait staff have lower min wage.


PromethiumX

It's because Canada adopted the US tipping culture In US the minimum wage for servers is $2.13 so need tips to earn a livable income In Canada, servers already make minimum wage (or in some cases 1 - 2 dollars less) but you still tip 15%+ because it's considered the societal norm to


777shark

Really depends what state your in, not all states follow the federal minimums and have higher min wage requirements. California for instance servers have to make state minimum wage before tips, so the minimum a server will make currently is $13 or $14 per hour depending on size of employer, in January it rises to $14 and $15 US$ of course, so basically the same as BC. Washington and Oregon also require state minimum wage for servers before tips, as does Alaska. 16 states following the federal minimum, the others are all over the place, so really like nearly everything in the US, all depends what state your in. Depends what state your in there is no uniformity across all 50 states. https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/state/minimum-wage/tipped


PotatoBomb69

I noticed even at Subway there’s an option to tip on the debit machines now, mental


Xpalidocious

It's that mentality that we've come to accept as society, some people still use the 20% calculation too


tman37

The restaurant industry has razor thin profit margins even with paying very low wages. If it was just as easy as paying more they would do it. The reality is that people won't pay an extra dollar for a donut unless the donut is worth a dollar more (it would have to be a pretty amazing donut). If restaurants raised their prices to pay really good wages most people couldn't afford to eat there. That said, I will never work in the restaurant industry ever again. I've done bomb disposal and the restaurant industry is more stressful. The razor thin profits, low wages and lack of security for owners or workers makes it a terrible industry. I don't blame anyone who doesn't want to go back to that.


warpus

> The restaurant industry has razor thin profit margins even with paying very low wages. How do restaurants manage to break even in countries were tipping isn't the norm and wages are higher? (i.e. basically everywhere outside of North America)


JuiceQwan

if the margins are so razor-thin ... why do people go into business then. Something doesn't add up


BigPickleKAM

You got to be in love with being a restauranture to be in that business. It's need over 20 years since I last worked in a place. But for us booze was the winning ticket. Food just got people in the door wine is where we made the money. That entree we made about %10 on but that bottle of wine %85 to %100. Also the cheapest wine on offer was our highest profit margin.


bretstrings

They also pay like shit. There isn't anywhere in the world were restaurant work is good. At least here tips can double or triple the wage.


Ttthhhccc

It doubles the wage because they are paid below minimum. So it's a false multiplier. Plus it only really benefits the front of house, not the people who cook the actual food.


tman37

With the exception of a temporary training wage in BC (I'm not even sure if that is still a thing), I have never met anyone who worked at a restaurant for less than minimum wage unless they were family or working under the table. Every restaurant I worked at also required tipping out to the kitchen staff.


JuiceQwan

The tip out is a fraction of what servers make. Every two week I'd pull maybe $250 in tips as a line cook ... I don't think many servers are walking home with less than that on a busy night


Ttthhhccc

https://www.ontario.ca/document/your-guide-employment-standards-act-0/minimum-wage https://www.restaurantscanada.org/industry-news/minimum-wage-by-province/ Ontario and Quebec, or at least half the country in terms of population.


Pyanfars

NOT everywhere outside of NA, quit drinking the KoolAid. But in Canada, the average profit margin is 8 to 14%. Most are in the 10% range, and a very lucky few can hit the 18% mark. Last restaurant that I worked at did approximately 5 million in sales that year, profit was 485k. ( I was management, I had access to the numbers, my bonus was determined on that profit margin) We also paid our staff fairly well, compared to industry average in the area. We also tended to hire more qualified staff for the more essential positions, that could also work 2 positions on slower nights or slower times so we could get the cleaning done and start cutting staff. The management was also trained on every position, so at certain times on the slow nights or slower times, they'd hit the line and help out.


Jswarez

They have fewer restaurants. Canadians eat out more than just about anyone in the rich, weatern world. Most places including just about every country in Europe has less restaurants per capita then Canada.


JuiceQwan

Source or are you just pulling out dumby facts bahha


warpus

Why would this matter?


hyperbole_everyday

I don't know... but 70% of restaurants in Canada go out of business in their first 3 years. Clearly things aren't as black and white as you paint it.


Ttthhhccc

A lot of restaurants are started by people with zero experience in running a business let alone a food business. They think because they can cook, they can run a resto. Yes it's tough business, and then add inexperienced owners, and you get high turn over.


I-Cook_cats1

That's because idiots who make an OK burger or something at home get praised by their friends so they open a restaurant with no experience. Or a talented chef with no experience running a business opens a restaurant and goes belly up because they can't do anything beyond make good food. Frankly culinary school is mostly a scam. It does not prepare you for the realities of the industry and as far as I've seen very little time is dedicated to actually teaching folks to run a business.


hyperbole_everyday

I think it's probably more complicated than that...


I-Cook_cats1

It's lots of reasons. Those are simply some of them. Frankly I'm with you if you want to say the bar for opening a small restaurant is too high. It's basically impossible for someone like me who cooks for a living without living in someone's closet for the next 10 years to save the capital required. Alternatively some skilled folks I know started collecting money with side hustles selling food illegally, which is necessary when it costs thousands and thousands of dollars to set yourself up with a non illegal operation. But I'm not with yoy if you're defending the status quo. I'd rather see the industry completely fail than have it go on like it is. It's a rickety pile of shit predicated on abusing folks like me by dangling our chosen vocation and passion in front of our noses while saying stupid shit like "it's not about the money" when we can't afford even a basic shitty apartment on our own while doing a skilled trade. Burn it all down if things don't improve. We will adapt, and the corrupt assholes who prey on folks can wallow in debt when their business fails.


slykethephoxenix

It clearly is since it's different in the rest of the world?


warpus

I am pretty sure that's true for a restaurant anywhere. It's not an easy business to start and keep running all while profitable.


riskybusiness_

Somehow I don't think the guy serving me a soup bowl in the streets of Vietnam is making more money than people in Canada...


TheLuminary

Obviously we need to accept that far fewer people can afford to eat out, then we thought could. We have been subsidizing our ability to eat out on the backs of minimum wage workers for some time now.


ActualAdvice

I've always believed that's because the owners should be in there working. What we have today leaves the consumer having to pay enough for profits to cover 2 salaries.


nxdefiant

I knew some people who did that. 16 hour days, 6 days/week, serving, cleaning, cooking, bartending, bussing, renovating, orders, stocking, they did it all. That's the reason they're still open all these years later. Most restaurant owners believe they can lease a space, get the staff, then hire a manager to oversee it all and POOF, money comes rolling in.


tman37

There are two problems with that. First, owners take all the risk. If the restaurant doesn't make any money that week, the workers don't give up part of their salary to cover the loss. If the business goes under(which is the norm in the restaurant industry), it's the owner that loses everything. Second, unless we are talking about the big chains, most restaurants are owner operators (including most franchises) and it is normal for the owner to work unpaid for a long time before they get a chance to enjoy the profits. Most restaurants aren't owned by millionaire fat cats, just regular people trying to earn a living.


ActualAdvice

Neither of those are valid arguments: 1) Risk - that’s inherently true but if you can’t afford employees and won’t work yourself then you can’t open 2) Reward- starting a business and making profits is inherently risky. You may fail or run out of capital on your idea. Both of your points are true but it doesn’t change the fact that there might not be enough profit margin for all owners to avoid doing the dirty work


bretstrings

The problem isn't that anyone is greedy, its just a crappy business model. That is why food trucks have become so popular. Similar revenue with a fraction of the overhead.


plasmonconduit

This is the 'right' answer, to the extent there is a 'right' answer. "When a management with a reputation for brilliance takes on a business with a reputation for poor economics, it's usually the reputation of the business which survives." -- Warren Buffett


sweetiesuka

>The reality is that people won't pay an extra dollar for a donut unless the donut is worth a dollar more (it would have to be a pretty amazing donut). If restaurants raised their prices to pay really good wages most people couldn't afford to eat there. This is a really good point that highlights the contradictions within capitalism. If people work shitty service industry jobs that pay nothing, they can't afford to buy restaurant food that goes up in price. But how can their wages be raised if people aren't willing (or able) to pay for that increase in wages?


leif777

I was talking with a fiend that owns resto that's been around for 12 years. He's been rolling up his sleeves all summer because he can't get someone to get in the dish pit. He's offering 25$ an hour and can fill the spot. 4 nights a week. 40 hours a week.


Disposable_Canadian

No problem as long as everyone's OK with paying $95 bucks for a burger and French fries at kelseys so kiddies working the grill and deep-fryer can drive a tesla and have a condo in Toronto.


Mirria_

There's a fast food place I go to that advertises hiring at 20$/h in Québec. Prices haven't changed much.


PrailinesNDick

In Denmark, McDonalds employees make double what they do in the US and a Big Mac costs $0.35 more. You can do this math yourself. If Mcdonalds wage expenses are 10% of cost, and wages go up 50%, then that is an overall cost increase of 5%. On a $5 big mac that means $0.25.


hyperbole_everyday

Maybe the entire system could change to be more like Denmark. But under the system these restaurant owners are operating under, 70% of new restaurants go out of business in their first 3 years. The owners are essentially saying "The system is unfair to us right now." Your response is "Be more like Denmark." But such systemic change is almost for sure what the restaurants *want*.


KingMalric

When I was in Copenhagen five years ago I remember an ordinary meal (might've been a Big Mac but it wasn't some "luxury" McDonalds meal) costing something like $20-25 CAD, so I'm not sure if I agree with you there


jeffprobstslover

I mean, you can literally Google the prices and exchange rate...


Disposable_Canadian

So in Denmark mcdolands employees make 30 USD an hour and a combo is still under 7.99 usd? Pfft.


PrailinesNDick

American Mcdonalds employees don't typically make $15/hr


bretstrings

>So in Denmark mcdolands employees make 30 USD an hour and a combo is still under 7.99 usd? No it isn't. Its a BS stat. https://archives.cjr.org/the_audit/a_big_mac_miss_by_the_huffingt.php?page=all


Mazhurg

Hyperbole much?


MrCanzine

Why stop there? Why not just say "$300 for a burger!"?


throwawaylatefiler

That's going to be the cost of the large fries...


WhyYesImMadBro

Your math is bad and you should feel bad


BumpyMoose76

Reductio ad absurdum, a classic logical fallacy.


Actual_Ad6412

What’s got to give is the customer is always right culture has to die. I was a waiter for a year and I’ll never ever do it again, no matter how much I’d get paid. Customers are some of the stupidest, entitled, brain dead people on the plant and demanding that staff pander to them, especially now that you’d literally be endangering yourself to do it, is a pipe dream.


im_chewed

Less customers = less tips. Now job ain't worth minimum salary.


Kraggleflux

Due to rising costs of everything, even before covid, restaurants were the first to go for us. I simply can't afford to pay someone else to prepare food for me. Maybe I'm not going to the right restaurants, but I always have a feeling of they wasn't worth it at all when paying for a restaurant bill. I suspect good restaurants will survive, and fast food places where you can get some level of sustenance for under 10 bucks, but I would guess smaller restaurants will fall.


FancyNewMe

Article Highlights: >It couldn’t be a worse time to be short on staff. Restaurants, hobbled by months of lockdowns and seating limitations, are finally able to pull in serious revenue and start the crawl out of debt as those restrictions ease up. > >Instead, operations from independents to major chains are abandoning lunch services, or shutting down entirely during weekdays because they can’t find enough workers. > >The food service and accommodation sector has the highest job vacancy rate in the country, with 129,000 open positions, according to Statistics Canada data for the month of June, the most recent available. > >The resulting tight labour market is driving up wages as managers try to hold on to their employees, lure them from competitors or convince them to come back to the business altogether. > >“I’ve talked to some operators, they’ve never seen anything like this,” said Todd Barclay, chief executive of Restaurants Canada, which estimates that at least 10,000 restaurants in Canada have already closed.


lostandfound8888

What happened to all the people who used to work in the sector? The wages and conditions didn't get any worse (or at least not that much worse) - so what happened to all the people who used to be willing to work and now aren't? (I am not making any kind of statement, rather genuinely curios)


Squirrel0ne

The shutdowns happened. Nobody wants a low paying job that can be shut down again and again. So they looked for other jobs or went back to school to retrain for different career.


CanuckandFuck

I mean, the wages did go down. The industry is based on tips and restaurants were closed for dine in service for ages and would open, close again, open, close again. Who would work for minimum wage with that much job uncertainty?


Bigrick1550

CERB happened.


WardenEdgewise

Let’s say there are 10 restaurants in your town, they all need to employ 10 people to work in each restaurant. That’s 100 restaurant employees. Now, there are only about 60 people in town willing to work for the offered wages. If four of the restaurants close down, tho other six restaurants now have enough workers to operate.


DDP200

That is the Europe model. They eat out less and have fewer restaurants. Reddit thinks there won't be a tradeoff, but the tradeoff will be we will have fewer restaurants, not that restaurants workers will make more.


TheLuminary

wages will go up when the 10 restaurants realize that the 4 left standing without staff are the 4 that will close.


SakafetMan

Reddit is incapable of making the connections and comments as if each event takes place in a vacuum.


lostandfound8888

What are the other 40 doing? (genuinely curious)


WardenEdgewise

Imagine you used to cook or serve in a restaurant. What would you rather do to make more money or have better working conditions? Your ideas would probably be very similar to what those 40 people *hypothetically* did.


lostandfound8888

So the reason the 40 are out of the industry is because they took the time to get retrained for something else and the something else turned out to be better? I am not trying to join the debate - I am really curious about the "mechanics" of how this came to be.


WardenEdgewise

Is that what you would do? Go back to school, gat a trade, go in to another entry-level field and work your way up? Or maybe continue to work in a kitchen because the owners of the restaurant would have to re-train someone else, and that would be really tough on them.


nxdefiant

Money shortage. From the same corporations or even independent owners who claim to be all about family while giving themselves bonuses but can't seem to pay someone an extra $5/hour. Wages: stagnant. COL, inflation: Through ye olde roofe. Only time I've heard that family line used in total seriousness was the Fast and Furious movies, so unless your boss says that to you while guzzling a Corona and wearing a denim vest it's probably a lie.


Infidel29

Restaurants are probably the hardest type of small business to run. Lower profit margins and higher expectations. Looking at this from the owner side, you scrimp and save $400,000, or are in hock that much, to open a restaurant. You pay all the wages, overhead and bills. What do you all think would be a fair profit margin for the owner to have after everything is paid?


OMightyMartian

If it's a crappy business model, then don't invest in it. But you can hardly complain that wage pressures render your business unprofitable, and if your business model amounts to "pay really crappy wages" then I have little sympathy for you. When I was in finance, and had worked on a number of restaurant accounts, I came to the conclusion that if you wanted to start a restaurant, borrow $100000 and flush it down the toilet. You're going to end up there in a year or two anyways, and at least you'll saved yourself two years stress


kefka296

This is so true. My antidotal story. A cousin of mine started a restaurant funded by my rich Uncle. The cousin is hands down one of the best cooks I've ever met. Had pretty much all 5 star reviews. Everyone who came to the restaurant loved the food and atmosphere. They closed that business after 2 years because they could not turn a profit and the forecast showed they probably never would. They had everything to make the restaurant work and they flopped hard. I genuinly do not understand why anyone get's into the food industry. You can be a master chef and still make min wage. It's just an awful industry from top to bottom.


sookahallah

>Other big issues > >1. commercial rents are far overpriced for what people can make in these businesses. > >2. price of food itself is seeing inflation


esPhys

There are way too many people in all these threads that ironically seem to think taking risks to start a business entitles them to success.


Infidel29

Lol, that's fair. I personally am grateful there are so many who are willing to make a go of it. I eat out a lot, and love doing so.


OMightyMartian

Having had a rather close look at the restaurant industry, I wouldn't lose any sleep if half of them went under. The hospitality industry in general has to be one of the most worker-hostile industries around


Justleftofcentrerigh

Does anyone else get the US Civil War argument vibes from the anti min wage crowd? The argument that they need to exploit people and keep them artificially low so that their economy can thrive sounds a lot like "The south needs slavery to power it's our economy".


lostandfound8888

Ha - so true!


Anary8686

The owners should be in there working. They don't deserve any sympathy if they are just using it as an investment.


Infidel29

Absolutely they do, they take all the risks and headaches. The workers take no risk in owning the property, nor running it. They pay no bills, don't have to give a fuck when shit breaks or the toilets back up. Most owners usually ARE working alongside unless they slowly become successful enough to own more than one business.


MrCanzine

Workers do take some risks though, maybe not as many, but you have to admit that workers are choosing to work for that company and rely on that company to keep their life on track. Of all the companies they could have worked for, they chose to put their earnings potential on that one. If the business closes tomorrow, that employee may be in a real bad position depending on what's going on in their life that relies on their paycheck and schedule. I think the attitude of saying employees take no risk is misleading.


Infidel29

Fair point, but if the employer goes tits up they can change employers much more easily compared to the owner having to liquidate everything at a huge loss; so let's agree on minimal risk compared to the employer.


UpperLowerCanadian

They stay awake all night worrying about policies and balancing books. They spend hours upon hours on the stupid ads, the social media, dealing with employees drama, dealing with angry customers, all for zero minimum wage- they might actually lose money. At the same time they’re providing jobs and tax dollars to provide all the services Canadians demand. If they want to take all the risk in this environment they should be praised not vilified. I’m sure there’s some shitty asshole owners but why do people claim all owners are bad


Anary8686

That's what they pay managers for.


New_Employer_4262

PAY A LIVING WAGE


SakafetMan

Smaller portions


lostandfound8888

Totally happening already (and not a bad thing)


CarpenterRadio

Are we seeing the effects of late stage capitalism where only large corporations can afford to open, own and operate restaurants?


Anne_Nonymous789

They will cut their own throats rather than pay a decent salary and treat their employees decently. Let them shut down, if there’s the demand, something better will replace it. Or , a novel idea, learn to cook healthy food and eat at home.


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clarf6

Slashing opening hours so they need less workers, not slashing hours of workers


mariobrowniano

The restaurant price is already so high that even middle income families cannot eat out daily. But they still can only pay the workers slave wages. Why is this?


Mrsublater

*Wage Shortage. Someone get ahold of Microsoft and let them know their autocorrect on Word needs some tweaking.


echo1956

FTFY **Restaurants slash hours, trim menus as workers are paid shit wages**.


whistleraussie

LOL fuck these restaurants and their shit pay. They should go out of business.


reyskywalker7698

So more people should lose there jobs then.


I-Cook_cats1

Always other jobs ;)


WardenEdgewise

Those people could just go work at the other restaurants that are short staffed. They wouldn’t be out of a job, they are in high demand!


PoiseOnFire

It’s not a real job if it doesn’t pay a living wage.


Justleftofcentrerigh

Don't forget shit hours and shit schedules. It's a game of nepotism with the schedules.


scraggledog

There’s way too many restaurants out there. They are bad for the environment and create tons of garbage and food waste. People need to prioritize family time more and that would include home cooking.


JackieEau

>People need to prioritize family time more and that would include home cooking. Singles in cities congregate in restaurants. It's where you meet friends, partners, colleagues, and dates. When you live in a 500 sq. foot condo entertaining at home is often not an option.


UpperLowerCanadian

Bulk food deliveries actually are far less plastic than 100 small packages. Unless you mean to go containers


epchilasi

Wow. Almost like a scarcity model for resources (labour counts as a resource) was always a bad idea.


quietlydesperate90

I feel like there are too many restaurants in general. We have too many shit jobs that no one wants to do. We need to partially move away from the service industry into higher paying jobs. Who cares if there's tons of jobs available if they're all shit jobs for shit pay.


I-Cook_cats1

Pay more, offer benefits, rework operating hours so cooks don't need to work in such absurdly stressful conditions. If you can't do those things then I guess your business model only works when you can abuse your employees, and therefore you should shut down and fuck off.


riskybusiness_

Also canada: https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/article-with-pandemic-benefits-ending-will-the-unemployed-return-to-the-work/


WatermelonSpooner

Good. Fuck the F&B industry.