I know we all love Amy and Jake but honestly, Kevin and Raymond are my actual favourite couple in just about any show
By - Voxael
Amy and Jake are start up goals, but Raymond and Kevin and long term goals. An ease of communication (mostly) happily raising a fluff ball together. Supportive and still having chemistry after decades together; just perfect.
I love how supportive they are of each other's careers. Clearly they decided early on that their careers would have to come first sometimes. Hence we get Kevin in France for an uncomfortably long time and Raymond not hesitating to call off from the Opera just because an interesting case turned up. Great to see that kind of mutual support and not just snarky jabs in a television relationship.
Hello Kevin, It is I Raymond Holt, your husband. I'm afraid something has come up at work and you will need to cancel the tickets for this evening. They are in my name R-A-Y...
Absolutely my favorite line of the series
this line is golden. it makes me sad sometimes how i feel like the past couple of seasons holt's been written kinda "out of character". he's more "chill" and "normal" now. and not that robotic, monotonous person we loved from the beginning. he laughs and talks pretty colloquially which is great and he's still pretty funny but idk it's just something i miss.
Or when Kevin tolerated the pie that Holt got on their drive upstate because he just loved spending time with him
Do I have to teach you sixth grade statistics
Do I have to teach you fifth grade statistics
I have to send him a scathing text about... kindergarten statistics.
Yes please I’m not very clever
I really feel this. My partner of 5+ years is a law student and I'm a vet student. We both have very different careers and we support each other no matter what :) Can really see myself with him in the future like raymond and kevin.
hOW darE YoU DeTeCtIvE DIAz i aM YoUr supErIoR OfFiceR
EW ROSA THOSE ARE OUR DADS!!
Officerrrrrr i love the way he drags it out a bit.
I dread those annunciated denunciations.
Those are our dads!
Captain Dad is just my boss
....I'm teaching FATHER the math!
just kidding i know captain dad is just my boss
This is my favorite episode. I love it so much
which episode is it? now i want to rewatch
S4E8 Skyfire cycle
I also loved how in the background Amy was having a breakdown.
She hates seeing Captain Dad mad!
What’d ya say?!?
My favourite part about them is that (to me) they look like the most realistic couple in many shows, they have fights yeah, but they also have each other's back, their love is so wholesome.
Also, hand holding in a public place? My god 7u7
I feel the same way. Not only that, it's a pretty healthy relationship. They communicate and listen to each other. They're not scared to point out each other's flaws in a constructive way. They accept each other.
Exactly, they always try to understand... Unless they didn't BOOONE!!!!.
Sometimes you just need to BOOOOONNNEE!!!!!
I love this community
Even when they fight too. “Needled him a new sweater. Even when we’re fighting you’re hilarious.” Had me
A two proud boys who raised one fluffy boy!
Huh, which one Jake or Cheddar?
I'd have to say A-yes
YOU TOOK THE WRONG FLUFFY BOY!!!
They are a very refreshing portrayal of a gay couple on TV. It's very natural and casual, and it's clear to see why they work as a couple. The writers seem to have taken care to make sure they weren't playing into stereotypes and actually creating a realistic relationship where 2 people compliment each other.
It's very nice to see, especially when so many times same sex relationships seem to be there for show and are honestly pretty poorly written or superficial portrayals of relationships (looking at you, Legend of Korra).
Exactly this. They are distinct characters in their own right and they happen to be gay. They’re not an element of spectacle just people
That steps into why the POC and the Gay/Bi characters in this show work so damn well.
They are not there as tokens, they are not there being the normal gay/black/latino character just checking box after box of how a gay/black/latino character would be (in often a borderline homophobic/racist way)
Those characters are just characters who happen to be black/latino/gay. But they are characters first.
Yeah, the races and sexualities and even genders of the characters could be swapped (for the most part - Terry would still have to be black for his racism storylines to be appropriate for example) and it wouldn’t really change the cores of the characters
I guess that they tried to apply the same as Alien did 40 years ago.
I've always heard that story that for Alien, Ripley is such a great female character because... it was never written as a female. In the original script, nobody was male or female, and were just referred via their last name. And then they cast people.
B99 probably tried to emulate the same approach, but with a little bit of a tint, like Terry being written to clearly be Terry Crews, but I think he's pretty much the only one.
I know that Stephanie Beatriz said that Amy was always meant to be Latina, so they definitely went into it with diversity in mind. Though "Rosa" was also initially "Megan," so it seems like a bit of both ... No jokes that speak to a token trait about a character, just the diversity that's important to include even at it's most base level, and then cast from there without race in mind
the beauty is that their identities do play a role in their characters. Holt's sexuality has had a big impact on his life and the decisions he's made, Terry's race has impacted him, Rosa's sexuality has had a big role in her development, etc. The show doesn't stray from depicting the realities that people with these identities would encounter, but it doesn't resort to stereotypes or making their identities the entirety of their character.
Korra was a nick show for children. It would be almost impossible to put anything obviously lgbt+ in it due to the networking not allowing it. (Bc in America someone’s head getting blown off isn’t as bad as two same sex people kissing) But at least the comics explore their relationship.
Thankfully children's entertainment is catching up with the times. Loud House has a character with two dads and I think one of the main characters is a lesbian. Steven Universe had a gay wedding. Adventure Time ended with Marcy and PB getting together and the new HBO Max special focuses on them and their relationship. The Owl House has a budding gay relationship between two of the main characters. One of the characters in DuckTales has two dads. Hell, I think a little while ago an episode of Arthur revealed that the teacher character was gay, and that show's been running for like 20 years.
Its great they are advancing on these things and accepting it be shown on TV.
But I don't want to be the one opening the mail/manning the facebook fan page chat after one of those episodes airs.
The number of super conservatives Karen that must write in at that moment must make you want to just burn everything to the ground.
The Dragon Prince also has two gay relationships in it, and it’s not a big deal. Also a stepfather/stepson dynamic, a deaf character conversing in sign, a non-binary character (though although that’s canon they’re not referenced in the show at all as non-binary so arguably not really shown), plus a three legged wolf as well. It’s very progressive, plus quite mature for a kids show in places. It is Netflix made tbf.
>The Dragon Prince also has two gay relationships in it
I think there's actually 3, as of the newest season. There's the women that get killed by the dragon and are mothers to the princess girl or whatever, the two elf guys that the elf girl was close with, and the deaf aunt starts a relationship with one of the sun elves (or at least it's implied that they're into each other).
It's been a while since I watched it, but that's what I remember of it.
As an aside, I'm not a fan of using The Dragon Prince as an example, because (especially in season 2) it definitely feels like they were writing characters, then tacking on a "thing" to be inclusive. The absolute dumbest is the blind ship captain.
Like no individual character is bad on their own, but it becomes *really* noticeable that whenever a character is significant, they have a "thing". One is deaf, one is gay, one is blind, one's missing a leg, and on. I get what they're going for, but when a show tries to single-handedly make up for all lack of representation, characters just wind up feeling like token characters anyway.
Gravity Falls had a gay couple too.
It is doubly weird because kids don't care! They are all hilariously easy going about that sort of thing these days. I can't believe the difference in attitudes in even just 20 years. Parents need to catch up to their children on this issue.
They really do. Kids are really indifferent about that kinda of stuff which is honestly the correct answer to have LGBT+ community. They dont want special treatment they just want to be treated normally/equally as straight couples.
Eh, that's not really my issue. It was very clear the show runners had issues with creating teenage characters. It also was apparent that the decision for Korra and Asami to get together was really made in season 4 and not planned out too well. There was about 1 scene that hinted at something more than friendship for about a half a second, but Korra inexplicably had more scenes and emotional development with her ex that season that easily could have been written with Asami in his place and better set up the relationship. In short, it felt shoe horned and poorly written. But when people tried to call that out, the show runners accused them of being bigoted rather than actually accept that maybe there were issues when they tried to write teenage relationships, especially since they paid way more attention to setting the tone for the male-female relationship than the female-female relationship. It was a thing when it happened.
I have no problem with the visibility of lgbtq+ characters in kids shows and encourage it, but wish it was given the same care as heterosexual relationships. The comics are likely better written, but most people will stop at the shows, like myself.
The producers themselves have said they wanted to explore it more and introduce it earlier but they weren't allowed.
Think about the implications of it being green lit only for the last episode. The network heads basically said "Eh, we are canceling the show anyways. If anybody gets offended we can just shuffle Korra off to a quick death."
> It also was apparent that the decision for Korra and Asami to get together was really made in season 4 and not planned out too well
Hard disagree. Lots of fans were shipping Korra and Asami in Season 3. I myself suspected there was something going on between them when I saw the finale of season 3 and then season 4 confirmed it.
same, started to have a feeling something might happen between them since season 3, and then Korra only writing letters to her really got me thinking it might happen. I honestly thought I was just reading to much into it because I never thought it would happen on a nick show.
Edit: fixing spelling bc i cant spell to save my life
I mean, I don’t know if casual would exactly be the right word to describe Holt and Kevin, but yeah I know what you mean.
I agree. Before they showed Kevin, I thought they were going to go with the trope of serious husband plus super flamboyant husband. They did this so well, I’m glad the creators were able to create a couple that complimented each other so nicely.
I absolutely love the fact that Raymond is the bimbo in the relationship.
I can’t believe he confused St. Augustine with Boethius!
I remember the interview with Andy Samberg where the interviewer referred to Raymond's sexuality as a "running gag" and Andy had to be like, "ummmmm no actually it's not a running gag. It's his character. It's who he is as a person and his marriage to his husband is treated the same as every other romantic relationship on the show. It was actually important to us that it NOT be just a joke."
I don't know how many people on this sub have seen Modern Family, but Mitch and Cam always rubbed me the wrong way and I thought they were a pretty bad example for a gay couple on TV. They were super passive agressive all the time and seemed incredibly unsupportive (or only turned out to support each other after a huuge fight). I absolutely love Ray and Kevin, they seem to be the complete opposite!
Really though that applies to every couple from that show.
Well legend of korra got completely fucked by broadcasters when they planned korra and asami to be together
I think it was more than that. Try the violence and complaints over the literal murder-suicide they did.
I disagree. He wrote a beautiful relationship.
Love them both. Ive always had moments of THIS person makes the show or the show wouldnt be the same without THAT person but in reality the whole cast is amazing. I wish they would hurry the f*#k up and bring out season 8
They started working on it yesterday! They had their first table read according to Joe Lo Truglio’s Instagram. I’m so excited, and I totally agree that B99’s cast is truly amazing. Even the side characters are great
Thats a relief because I read that the future of the show was uncertain due to the views people have on law enforcement these days, which would piss me off because the show actually addresses many of those same concerns. B99 is the ONE show I actually look forward to!
Ya one of my housemates refuses to watch it due to them being cops. But he has personally had some (sadly not just once) very bad interaction with cops so I totally get it why he feels that way.
Fair enough. That sucks
That sucks it’s so much more than cops though, I understand as someone who’s had bad interactions with police as well it’s still a phenomenal show
Same here! It’s so much more than a cop show and it’s a shame people view it in a different light because of that. All around amazing show and amazing cast. Nine-Nine!
Exactly. It's an awesome show that happens to take place in a cop station.
I've had some messed up interactions with cops mainly due to my age/looks/lifestyle but I can definitely separate cops in real life from characters in a show that happen to be cops.
If this show was written about a Catholic church instead of a precint, it would've been as controversial years ago as cops are now. They could've written so many of the story lines and characters so similarly (like Jake _finally_ getting a shot at an exorcism/miracle, instead of a manhunt) but either atheists, conservatives or radicalists would have hated it no matter what. A lot of people would have just watched it and enjoyed it because it's just fiction.
It's not pushing agendas in any way, and it's genuinely about the personalities of the characters. It just so happens that these characters wanted to be cops and now work in a police precinct.
Boom boom Bill!
I love how casual they are about the fact they are a gay couple.
I wish it was the norm for TV show and movies, rather than this poorly and overused plot device with overly fabulous gay dudes. Just two normal guyz forming a lovely couple.
As much as I love them, Raymond and Kevin aren't exactly 'normal'.
Everyone keeps going 'Yay, they're not stereotypical etc etc'...but that's kinda the joke. They're *so* non-stereotypical, it's almost a reference to the stereotype anyway.
Yeah I guess you're right. However it highlight how badly we need a broader spectrum of personnalities when it comes to representing gay dudes
But if we could just have more “middle of the road, ordinary person” rather than either “flamboyant as fuck” or “anti-flamboyant as fuck” (not that either of those are a problem, you do you) I’d be happy because then I’D be getting some representation.
Stamets and Culber in Star Trek Discovery my dude. The show itself is “meh” but as a couple Dr Stamets and Dr Culber are just two crew members that happen to love each other. I’m not gay so I won’t throw my weight around too much but it seems to be quite sensitively portrayed at least from an outsiders perspective.
I like schitts creek for this, David and Patrick are so natural.
Just finished Schitt’a Creek and I think it has the best LGBT representation of any show I’ve ever seen.
Isn't it?! I was blown away by how casual it all is and it just felt natural to see David and Patrick being a normal couple. Love it.
I just finished this yesterday! And agree 👍 So refreshing
They both share and respect each other but are able to see the lighter side of jokes. At the beginning, we see both of them come off as robotic and non emotional. Look at their wedding. ( I am not saying it is a bad thing or anything, I am just making an observation about their character development). Then in later seasons, we see them be more inclusive and laughing in certain scenes. Take Kevin for example, look at the episode where Kevin had to go into hiding. He changed from an super smart intellectual to a loveable guy who liked Nick Cage movies.
Kevin: “There was a movie about a mandolin and you kept it from me for two months?”
Jake: “Well, I didn’t think it was any good. It’s just some period piece…”
Jake: “Set in Greece…”
Kevin: “Oh my God.”
Jake: “Based on some dumb book.”
Jake: “Next thing you’re going to say you wished we watched Leaving Las Vegas, a dark, ponderous reflection on alcoholism that earned Cage his Oscar.”
Kevin: (screams in incoherent rage)
You definitely see a lot more of them as things go, but I love that they don't actually _change_ throughout the show. They are who they are and yea they grow a bit here and there. Certain episodes, they act completely out of character... briefly. They're still always just them, seasons in.
**Holt:** When I die, give Kevin my regards.
**Bob:** What should I tell him?
I think saying Kevin likes Nick cage movies might be a stretch lol
My head canon is that kevin is still sean from the good place. He vacations as kevin to get away from it all. Holt is the only thing that brings him joy.
He also works part time as a lawyer in Pawnee
'I understand that you purchased 4 portions of rice'
Came here for the rice comments lol
PDA in the office? My my
They are hella specific.
Better get some corticosteroid for that laryngeal fracture! Sorry, I couldn’t bring myself to call him a dirtbag.
Why would you? A dirtbag is an important part of a vacuum cleaner.
Or whatever that quote was. I love them both so much!
Oh look Raymond, a yellow crested warbler. [said with a tone that is happy that you found a bird but not too happy because it’s a common bird]
Me and my wife named our dog Cheddar because of how much we love these two.
I started watching The Good Place, which has somewhat ruined Kevin for me
Aw, I love him in both. How good is The Good Place though? I thought I'd hate it despite liking all the actors, but was glued to every episode.
> How good is The Good Place though?
My experience with Schur's shows was:
* "ugh" painful getting into The Office after rewatching the UK version for the third time, got into it by having it mumble on the side while I was barely paying attention for many episodes, liked it a lot much later;
* somewhat bored first PandR episodes, immediately fell for Pratt and Offerman, second season onward was a breeze
* I was pretty engaged in B99 by the second episode
* I fell in love in The Good Place in the first minutes and my love grew only stronger by the episode, it is probably my most favourite TV show ever.
There's a chance I'll die from cardiac arrest with a smile on my face during the first episode of the Rutherford Falls. What a way to go.
Season 1 of PandR was not great, it ["grew the beard"](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/GrowingTheBeard) when Ben showed up
As I said: mostly Pratt and Offerman made the show for me.
I also loved Chris. All three of them _really_ stayed the course for their character and played their characters perfectly. I think it has a lot to do with the fact that quite of bit of each of them really drew from Nick's and Chris's real personalities and humor, and Rob Lowe's real passion for health and fitness.
It might be an unpopular opinion, but I honestly think Leslie's character was one of the weakest characters. She obviously has amazing lines, especially all her special descriptions for Anne, but most everyone else was better.
> I honestly think Leslie's character was one of the weakest characters
Of course you'd think that. It's because you forgot that man... Uhm... Harry, I think? Or Larry. Whatever his name.
Barry was easily the best example of a "forest for the trees" kind of deal. At first Jerry is super 1D. Then you get to meet Terry's whole family (holy shit), learn about his life outside the office, his love for the job and his dedication, and that last episode and everything Garry eventually ended up doing... Damn, son.
No, I definitely did not forget about Larry.
Yeah, Henry may have been sort of on the background, but he had a good exposition and story. Better than supposed Leslie's kids.
Who the hell is Henry? I was talking about Mayor Gergich.
I have never heard that term before, but I love it. Thanks for linking that.
It's amazing. All of the characters work so well together, even when they each kind of grow and change. There's the obsurdist humor (with a ton more room to roam than other shows), running gags, awesome one-liners, etc. from other shows like The Office, P&R, B99, etc. The characters, you really kind of fall in love with and really connect with. Everything.
There's a difference, though. The Good Place is kind of different from other shows, since you can't really watch a random solo episode. It's definitely got a linear storyline that progresses, but that just makes it super bingeable cuz you want to see where it's going next.
> but that just makes it super bingeable cuz you want to see where it's going next.
It was hard, but I managed to wait for all the season's episodes to come out and then binge all the episodes. And then again. And again.
For some reason I always tear up when Michael looks at them under the train and goes "You guuuys!"
I didn't. I watched every episode starting that first Thursday. I was so glad when the whole thing hit Netflix, though.
All the show binged from s01e01? If I tried that I'd probably end up in the Good Place myself.
Well obviously there was the pausing and/or stopping because... life. It's still binging, just in sections. Like, a lot of subs do daily rewatches but I can't do that. When you watch like 6-8 (or 3-4 hour long shows) episodes, bathroom/food/sleep/life stuff, rinse, repeat.... that's appropriate binging. You could finish TGP in a weekend, easy.
Midway through this I realized I was actually explaining how to binge a tv show but figured screw it and finished it. Sorry, blame caffeine and allergy meds.
>Sorry, blame caffeine and allergy meds.
Aight. Damn you caffeine!
As for bingeing: https://www.bingeclock.com/s/good-place/nc/ - a neat calculator. Totally possible to finish in a weekend or a particularly determined day.
My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic takes a whole entire week, 7 days, to finish when watching 16 hours a day without intros and commercials, for comparison.
Is it just me or is it weird you asked him how good it was even though you've seen it?
I thought that was a rhetorical question
“You make me want to have, a wetter brain.”
Everybody loves Raymond.
How dare you not mention Cheddar in this comment?
Cheddar is not part of the romantic relationship of Raymond and Kevin (I’m sure there’s weird-ass fic out there but I’m not talking about *that*).
You’re obviously not a dog owner.
Hello Kevin, it’s your husband, Raymond Holt. That’s H O L T.
I suddenly need to hear their interaction during sex.
Probably something about the lack of heavy breasts.
"I do enjoy your proportionally endowed genitals and your masculine breasts."
"Agreed. I much prefer your masculine breasts as well, compared to large, heavy, female breasts."
And the lack of a thigh gap and clear evidence of a penis.
Kevin and Jake are my favorite couple.
I love you
Do you know how to clap back Raymond?
Yes! More Captain Holt and Professor Kevin! They are the best!
I’m still hype for their honest-to-goodness wedding
I love the theory in which Kevin is actually the demon from the good place who came to earth and fell in love with that stoic faced hot bimbo
Jesus Christ they need to dial down the pda man look at this pic
They’re not the kardashian-wests
It's when they looked lovingly into each others eyes and shook hands. It was such a... Emotional moment.
It reads to me as the most ' normal' gay relationship Ive ever seen on tv . I was raised by lesbian parents and all those types of relationships on tv come across as cliche and over the top I'm sure it's similar for kids raised by gay parents . Its just nice to see a healthy supportive realistic realationship .
I also love their fluffy boy the thicc king if you will
Thank you! I love jake and Amy’s relationship so much, but Kevin and holt have the most stable, wonderful relationship in ANY show I’ve seen. ♥️
I'm just sad we couldn't see Holt as a demon who wants to put spiders in everyone's buttholes.
Needled him a new suit. Even when we’re fighting you’re hilarious
PDA in the office? My, my.
Kevin and Holt are probably the only gay couple in a comedy show that isn't portrayed as a stereotypical gay couple.
They are responsible for one of the most passionate onscreen handshakes of all time.
Re-wedding when? I wanna see that episode!
Kevin isn’t scared to start a kerfuffle for Raymond
Are raymond on the good place
I actually liked Amy and Jake better when they just had awkward tension and made fun of each other but were not in a relationship. I have always loved Holt and Kevin. And Cheddar.
Why isn’t this mark as nsfw. This is too graphic
It's not even a fair fight
Do I have to teach youuuuu 2nd grade statistics?
Do I have to teach you first grade statistics?
Idk. Do I have to teach YOU kindergarten statistics?
No but I'm sure I need to teach you Pre-K statistics
A stapler, some pens, and a notebook. HE REALLY GETS ME!!!
Kevin and Holt are the most perfect couple of all fiction (in my opinion)
My fav couple is Jake and Boyle 😍😍
Except for Gina, Everything about this show is awesome.
Gina isn’t a good person but as a character she bounces of Holt really well
ugh.. sorry, I watched Brooklyn a long time ago and I don't quite remember... Why Gina isn't good?
Real answer: she's selfish, rude, callous, and despite the other comment waiving it off, definitely inappropriate. For me, the biggest off-putting part is her obsession with millennial crap, constantly talking about spirit animals and emojis and abbreviating stupid crap.
The only good scenes are with Holt or Jake when she acts like she's actually been friends with Jake for forever.
sometimes she can be incredibly selfish and egotistical, plus she did harass terry quite a bit
No way. Hitchcock and Scully are the real power couple.
are we all forgetting about the wonder that is boyle and genevieve? his flat ass fits perfectly on her ute
Their handshake in that one episode! So sweet <3
"PDA in the office? My, my."
Agreed, there interaction and personality on the show is hilarious
What other shows are they in?
Oh my god! Such an outrageous public display of affection by Captain Holt! Holding hands with his husband, in public? What next? Captain Holt eating a nutritional brick, original with a hint of mint??!! Who even is this imposter?!
Best couple ever
Dear Captain Raymond Holt,
Thinking of you
Dr.Kevin Cozner PHD
Indeed indeed indeed indeed indeed
Holt is my favourite by such a huge amount, it's crazy. I love almost every character, but Holt is in a league of his own for me.
Especially after that hilarious officiant/efficient quip.
Nick and Schmith in New girl.
They're our DADS
Y'all are hella specific.
I'm more for Hitchcook and Scully. They've been friends and partners for like a century. Just like Spongebob and Patrick
Probably an unpopular opinion on this sub but,
David and Patrick from Schitt’s Creek >
So there was a show a few years back that didn't last long about middle aged dudes, *Men of a Certain Age*. I thought it was pretty underrated, but whatever. Andre Braugher was on it and his relationship on the show with his wife was fantastic. I loved every minute of them together. They were just perfect together.
And Holt and Kevin are absolutely perfect. So really, Braugher just kills it in TV marriages.
I liked that show too
Indeed. Indeed indeed indeed indeed.