T O P
JeremPosterCollect0r

But the Most Cheer-Worthy Moment Oscar win was legit, right? RIGHT????


TheyCallMeYDG

you telling me a Flash entered this speed force?


TheKal-El

CRASH a Flash through the speed force!


Vivid-Goat-377

Speed force Thanksgiving!


PicnicBasketSam

the oscars fan favorite movie poll was similarly overrun by zack snyder fans but an underdiscussed weird thing is that a nonexistent johnny depp movie that got a tiny theatrical release and no streaming or home release until literally this past month was in there too, and I believe that he personally paid for that to happen


brick0302

I, for one, am very happy that those crazy fans rigged it so that Oscars will never do that stupid shit again.


PicnicBasketSam

So am I! But I am quite sure the oscars will invent some new and improved stupid shit before too long


brick0302

Imagine being inventive so that you can please the mouse. Infuriating.


nacnud298

The REAL mystery though is how did Dream Girls sneak into the Movie Cheer Moment top 5?


ChibiRoboKong

If Glass Animals (who have been around for over a decade) can be nominated for 'Best New Artist' at the Grammy's then anything can happen with enough marketing.


theddR

Hot take: *Minimata*’s okay, actually.


Duffuser

Your wild conspiracy theory is so wild that it MUST be true!


PicnicBasketSam

is it a wild conspiracy theory that a man who has NEVER thrown obscene amounts of money away on things and had a TOTALLY 100% GENUINE online campaign spring to his defense in a multi million lawsuit against his ex-wife would have bought twitter bots to push his virtually unreleased movie into an Academy Awards twitter poll? because there sure as shit were bots involved for that to have happened my real wild conspiracy theory is that he (or his team) did that, not because he cares about winning an oscars twitter pol, but specifically as a smaller test run of weaponizing social media shortly before the legal proceedings began


Duffuser

I hate how plausible this is


No_Package3919

It would very much fit in with the agenda of the already documented online PR bot campaign. There was already money out there to rehab his image, why not jump onto something like this too.


smokedoor5

The voting happened on Twitter, an ironclad and sacred institution


SavedMontys

My conspiracy theory is that this reporting is driven by Musk trying to prove how Twitter has more bots than it disclosed so he can get out of his purchase


jaylkae66

Al G Rhythm strikes again


edaou3

Guys we're fine, they haven't figured out that my fake accounts are fueling 91% of TRON: LEGACY 2 fan accounts.


vanillaflin

An army of...CYBORGS?


Ok-Crow4107

Booyah


[deleted]

I mean this is obviously true but there are *a lot* of weird Snyder Cut fans out there. I've interacted with them and they're definitely not bots, though a surprising number of them have sisters that earn 3000 dollars a month working from home using 1 simple trick.


ShitpostinRuS

The replies are lousy with them lmfao. Saw one saying that ZSJL is more auteur than any MCU movie. Great, cool. Movie still sucks shit


[deleted]

"It's a train wreck but it was just nice to see someone try something that wasn't polished and corporate" is such a weird take to me but I've heard it a lot about Justice League. I guess I agree in theory but we're still talking about a comic book movie and it was really unfun and bad. There are other kinds of movies that can get made and if you're making a toy commercial anyway I think I'd rather it was competent.


mpjedi21

"Unfun and bad," seems pretty sweeping and subjective. I actually kind of like the idea of presenting the DC pantheon as just that...an Olympus of Gods. It's mired in a mindset of the late-80's comic books (not the 90's, where they took that and made it ridiculous)...we want this to be SERIOUS and IMPORTANT. Which is too far away from the Marvel template for most people now, and I get that. But I quite enjoyed it for what it was, and by any metric, it's better than what Whedon crapped out. Everyone's mileage may vary.


MrShapinHead

Personally, I appreciate the Olympus style superhero too. That said, the reason Nolan’s batman movies worked so well, is because he’s a *great* director… Snyder isn’t. All the drama aside, Whedon is good at making a Whedon movie - which doesn’t translate to Olympus like superheroes and serious DC movies. The biggest issue with DC movies is that EVERYTHING is so over the top. I’m talking about the acting to the music. They’re trying to create a vibe more than an actual movie… which is a shit way to make a film. The best modern DC movies have been Nolan’s Batmans, Wonderwoman, Batman, Shazam, and the 2nd Suicide Squad. Outside of the most recent Batman, none of these movies went in aiming to hit a “vibe” a teach a lesson - instead they just focused on making entertaining movies.


final_will

This is Aquaman erasure and I won’t stand for it.


mpjedi21

I don't argue with any of that. I certainly don't consider any of those films the "best" of superhero filmmaking. All I'm saying is that I prefer ZSJL to the theatrical version by a wide margin, and I admire Snyder's ambition. Ambition often seems like folly if you don't hit a bullseye. I'll also say, he had the right idea. GREEN LANTERN and Whedon's JL both tried to do the "Marvel thing," and DC needed their own style. You can like it or dislike it, but Snyder didn't just make Marvel clones.


pottyaboutpotter1

Funny thing is that auteur theory isn’t actually a claim of quality. It’s just that the director has an identifiable style that can be recognised across their work. It doesn’t mean that director is some genius or whatever. Michael Bay is technically an auteur. The term doesn’t mean any quality.


letsg0letsg0letsg0

yeah i was also cyberbullied into spending $40 million once


YodaFan465

Hey, Sony was cyberbullied into re-releasing a movie that wasn’t even good.


1slinkydink1

Didn’t work for Morbius lol


unicornlocostacos

That’s a lot of morbots morbin’ hard


mysterymaninurhome

Since no one is going to read the story, the idea they found 13% of them were bots isn’t even a news story. If you have any idea of the number of social media bots specifically attached to these types of fandoms, this isn’t disproportionate at all.


Rhonardo

If anything this is way lower than I would have assumed. It’s another W for the Snyder weirdos


mysterymaninurhome

It’s super weird for Warner to leak this…they decided to fund it and it came out over a year ago, like what does this do for anyone lol.


jason_steakums

Maybe somebody on their way out the door grinding axes


GenarosBear

well WB has gotten so much bad press over their handling of the whole thing, from the racism to dealing with Ezra Miller’s bullshit, I buy this is them trying to re-take the narrative…but it’s like, too late guys, you gave him $70 million and now you’re trying to say it’s because 13% of the Snyder Bros were bots, like, that’s just MORE embarrassing for you, it’s not even an impressive number of bots


btouch

Zaslav trying to signal this sort of spending won’t be happening on his watch, I’d imagine.


FondueDiligence

Weird to call people out for not reading the article and then take the 13% number out of context. Here is the full quote: >According to two reports commissioned by WarnerMedia and recently obtained by Rolling Stone, at least 13 percent of the accounts that took part in the conversation about the Snyder Cut were deemed fake, well above the three to five percent that cyber experts say they typically see on any trending topic. (In public filings, Twitter has estimated that the percentage of daily active accounts on its platform that are “false or spam” is less than five percent.) So while Snyder had scores of authentic, flesh-and-blood fans, those real stans were amplified by a disproportionate number of bogus accounts. So yes, 13% does not sound high and plenty of the engagement was real, but the amount of fake engagement was multiple times what it normally is in similar situations. Also even if a huge majority of the traffic is true human traffic, fake traffic can dictate the tone of the discourse. I think the Depp/Heard trial showed that. The early tone became very pro-Depp (maybe that happened authentically, maybe not) and once that was the established tone, real human people started mirroring that same tone in chase of that audience. That created a feedback loop that engulfed social media sites for weeks. There are also accusations in the article that Snyder is potentially behind some of the inauthentic traffic. Lastly there is discussion of threats that originated from both Snyder and this online community and whether Warner did enough to protect people. I understand if people are sick of this topic, but I think there is more to this specific article than you are implying.


mrbaryonyx

people think 13% is a small number (what if I told you one out of every ten of your friends is a robot) and also are really attached to the idea that they came by their opinions earnestly. Trying to convince people that their opinions can be decided by millions of angry people on Twitter, and that those millions of angry people are in turn being steered by like a few thousand bot accounts, is difficult and kind of horrifying. Even though we've seen it happen constantly. If you've ever seen a group act ridiculous on Twitter--and you have if you've ever been on Twitter--that's the reason. We all acknowledge that "marketing" is a billion-dollar industry and yet we all refuse to acknowledge that we can have our opinion shaped by it.


heisghost92

This report comes out at the same time as a report that analyzes harassment from bad-faith actors during ''that trial'' [https://twitter.com/cbouzy/status/1549001215031316480?s=20&t=283IIe2oA8DFLTeEVizVWA](https://twitter.com/cbouzy/status/1549001215031316480?s=20&t=283IIe2oA8DFLTeEVizVWA)


mysterymaninurhome

There really isn’t though, this is a hit piece put out by Warner that doesn’t say anything that damning. Comparing it to the Depp trial is offensive, rooting for a movie to come out is not the same as cheering on a DV trial. Every accusation made against Snyder in this piece is either benign or unspecific, nothing about this story is interesting. It is just catnip for people who want to believe Snyder is evil because of fans, even though the guy that replaced him on this fm was actually accused of being a bad person yet gets a fraction of the criticism.


FondueDiligence

> Comparing it to the Depp trial is offensive, rooting for a movie to come out is not the same as cheering on a DV trial. This is a bad faith comment. I was not comparing the merit or the ethics of the arguments being discussed. I was showing how there can be a multiplier effect in social media in which authentic traffic is just a replication of earlier traffic. Therefore early inauthentic traffic can have an outsized influence.


CutlerSheridan

I agree the Depp thing was a bad faith comment and the 13% is a little worse than he suggested but this really is a very long anti-Snyder article with very little substantive to say against Snyder. It’s ludicrous how they act like we should give half a shit that he took studio property home with him or filmed some scenes without permission in his backyard lol


straitjacket2021

Dude, people like you are the problem. Really. No one is defending Whedon, no one is in here mocking Snyder or even his cut of the film, I think everyone acknowledges it’s better than the Whedon cut. But to pretend “nothing about this story is interesting” and that the only interest people could have in it is to smear Snyder is the exact kind of fanboy troll crap that’s made talking about these films awful. It is interesting that this movement had three times the number of bots as others. It translates to power dynamics and how they effect studio behavior going forward. Especially since that traffic pushed them into spending nearly $100 million dollars extra on a directors cut of a movie they’d already lost tons on. You’re free to like this movie and to like Snyder. But assuming anyone who doesn’t is malicious is exactly the type of behavior that makes people not want to engage with Snyder anymore.


Bishb0t

I thought the original cut of JL was a piece of shit, didn't give a toss about the Snyder cut and never want to look at Depp ever again and yet both of those so-called "campaigns" flooded my social media. It didn't work in my particular case because of my strong anti-reactions, but if I'd been predisposed to sympathy in either case it would be extremely disingenuous to suggest it wouldn't have an influence.


mysterymaninurhome

Lol this is an obvious hit piece, designed to continue to make marks like you think there is some mass conspiracy propping up anyone liking his movies. I’m not even a big fan of his, just think the way “film culture” treats him is absurd. The film media absolutely hates him, and it’s bizarre.


[deleted]

Probably because he makes mostly bad movies and his fans are extraordinarily annoying.


mysterymaninurhome

This sub has a hissy fit every time Chris gethard says he doesn’t like the last Jedi, basically every fandom is extremely annoying.


[deleted]

Blankies have not, to my knowledge, bullied random people online until a studio spends $40 million to recut a very bad movie into a perfectly OK one.


mysterymaninurhome

Lol you guys are literally siding with a studio and claiming it got “bullied”, like lmfao. Poor Warner brothers, who gives a shit


[deleted]

I'm not siding with anyone. But my experience with Snyder fans have been almost universally negative and I have nothing to do with the production of those movies so I can only imagine what it was like for people actually involved with the process.


remotectrl

What movie/director do you think Blankies would do that for?


stylushappenstance

This question is worthy of its own post.


PicnicBasketSam

To my knowledge this subreddit hasn't launched any large scale harassment campaigns against anybody, much less used donating to suicide prevention causes as an emotional cudgel to try and get a multi-billion dollar corporation to do something for us


mysterymaninurhome

Wait so you’re actually saying donating to suicide prevention is bad? Lmao. Oh poor Warner brothers, who will think of how mean fan were to…a massive corporation? And to answer your question, TLJ fans harassed John Boyega, so yeah.


PicnicBasketSam

No I'm not saying donating to suicide prevention is bad, I'm saying it's bad that a bunch of those people were basically like "see look we donated to charity so we are immune from criticism for any of our other behavior" and for me it calls into question their motives for donating money at all


Rhamiel506

Pal the article also says that average inauthentic activity on any online movement / group is approximately 5%. 13% is more than twice that average it’s absolutely significant.


mysterymaninurhome

Oh no, not more than double 5%? What about the children? Will anyone think of the studio putting out a hit piece on a movie they greenlit and financed 2 years ago?


Rhamiel506

Maybe you should stop diminishing the increasingly vile movement Snyder has built around himself and is clearly directing from behind the scenes to attack and harrass his personal enemies gamergate style


mysterymaninurhome

Lmao maybe you should grow up and stop being so naive


Rhamiel506

Ill do that when you take the boot out your mouth.


mysterymaninurhome

You’re the one siding with a corporate entity, not me. I’m simply stating this article is a total hack hit job that isn’t insightful, and is designed for people obsessed with being mad at Zach Snyder to feel some sense of validation.


hobohustler

Dude, search reddit and look at how this article has been posted everywhere - something strange is going on


stephenstrange2022

😂 ok.


hobohustler

This is what is going on. Some kind of strange hit on Snyder. I just dont know why they are doing it. Maybe because DC without him is sucking?


ThePopeofHell

I’m pretty sure these studios pay for their own bots too. Some times there’s these really bizarre things being said about shows and movies and when it’s successful you rarely hear about it. Like “Will Smith is the nicest rich guy ever” campaign around when the first Suicide Squad came out.. it still makes no sense to me why so many people were going out of their way to talk about how nice and not out of touch he is for a rich guy. It was being blasted all over the internet and even by the other actors. Ike Barinholtz was probably the most obnoxious and least convincing about it.


legopego5142

The article says its usually 5% though


NlitendOperativ

Around 10% and they used the word “fueled”?!


[deleted]

[удалено]


mysterymaninurhome

A director getting mad at a producer isn’t a big story or newsworthy.


njl4515

Found one of Snyder’s bot accounts


childish-yambino

In other news: water, wet.


thishenryjames

Ice and steam to release joint statement shortly


thekennymadison

Hold on. What?


btouch

Ten “forgotten dialogue from a ZS DC-based movie” comedy points


btouch

Is Geoff Johns not credited at all on the Snyder Cut? Despite having actively worked on it (and, yes, later the theatrical version) as on-set producer and uncredited re-writer?


doubles1984

It was obvious. Same situation with Amber Heard. Tons of bots.


GenarosBear

god, imagine going to journalism school and then getting assigned the Snyder Cut Twitter Bot beat


Puzzled-Journalist-4

people gotta eat and pay the rent


foxtrot1_1

It’s actually kind of a cool story, even if it amounts to nothing. Intersection of a bunch of weird online stuff we all live through now.


stumpcity

Most of the people who write for entertainment websites never went to, and will never come out of, a journalism school. Part of the problem with how this shit happens is that we've been slowly okay with subbing out educated, capable, people with **graduate forum posters**. The criteria for getting a byline has nothing to do with skill or ability anymore. The bar got lowered too long ago for that to change back now.


LOTM

It's a bit of both though, right? I don't know for sure, but pretty sure both of the folks on This Had Oscar Buzz don't have journalism/writing degrees, along with a number of the writers who are regular Blank Check guests. For something like film history or fandom writing, being someone who grew up on forums is certainly valuable in a way that having a degree in journalism isn't. Obviously you'd likely want them to have an editor to help guide and refine their writing and topic selection, but being mercilessly picked apart by internet randos on forums is in some ways closer to the actual job of writing for a publication these days than going go college is. There's obviously room for both, and it's important to keep in mind which sort of writer and publication you're reading from to provide context to the writing.


TehIrishSoap

Ask the UK what happens when you make journalism available exclusively to people with college degrees. You get middle-upper class people browbeating the average person. A piece of paper doesn't make you any more of a journalist than Roger Ebert.


duckspurs

I mean this is actually interesting and important and something that has a much greater impact on our lives than most shit entertainment reporters report on. It's like when gamergate was going on and people complained about how pointless it was for anyone to seriously report on it vs recognizing it was basically showing us the future of everything for the next decade.


clwestbr

Surprised Pikachu face.


InvisibleInk1983

When I hear the story of Rob Tapert sneaking into Universal’s editing room to save DARKMAN, I’m gleeful. When I read this, I get depressed. And now I’m asking myself “why?” Aren’t both these stories an example of a creative taking on a studio and winning? Is it because, in the case of ZSJL, threatening and execs and their family members are a step too far? Those are means that no ends justify. I want creatives to triumph over execs and share their vision with the world. I just don’t want it done in a way that perpetuates this cruelty that technology has injected into society.


latestagepersonhood

Not surprised. The Venn diagram of toxic internet people and Zach snyder apologists is just two concentric circles.


Velocityprime1

Oh good Snyder is also a person who put his cast in crew in harm's way. "What the studio didn’t know at the time was that Snyder had already shot footage in his backyard at the height of the pandemic. Sources say the rogue shoot flouted Covid protocols and union guidelines."


mysterymaninurhome

Every single film that was shot in 2020 was putting cast and crew in harms way. The idea that like wearing masks half the time in films where actors were coming into contact with each other constantly with no masks, it’s all just nonsense to justify something that was inherently unsafe. There is no chance that almost any shoot - even ones by your faves - were “safe” during 2020. Also this is such an obvious hit piece, I would take such a vague accusation with a grain of salt.


Anth_Reg

I’d argue it’s only slightly more safe (but not actually safe!) for any of us to be working in person right now too!


boyridebike

Your karma swings on this thread are massive


[deleted]

You really think they fit an entire film crew in Snyder’s backyard, huh?


Puzzleheaded_Walk_28

I mean, yeah


VicVinegar69

Personally, I find this news stunning


jona2814

Yes. I am Hugh Mann. Zack Snyder just understands my..... "#people#".


thedude391

Reads like a pity party article for WB. 13% being bots is a lot lower than expected but either way they won, studio didn’t, and we got a much better cut. Sorry but Zack taking the hard drives with his cut and shooting new footage with zero studio approval is cool, dude waned it more and did it. Article frames this like a nefarious deed but sorry, not siding with a studio. Edit: I still find it very gross the studio trying to frame Ray Fisher’s abuse allegations as being orchestrated by Snyder


jeremyfrankly

Cue nerds heads exploding


PicnicBasketSam

[zack snyder's](https://vero.co/zacksnyder/pCmp-wGLRPGVfH1p4fGLMzpg) and [ray fisher'](https://twitter.com/ray8fisher/status/1549287641987911682)s very chill responses this morning


mysterymaninurhome

Yeah those are good responses, this article is pathetic nonsense. So weird to see people continue to shit on Ray fisher.


Daleyemissions

Who gives a shit? When did everyone realize that we’d be relitigating TLJ and Snyder JL still in 2022 I’m sure this report is likely fueled by the new WB execs trying to desperately figure out how in the hell to pivot DC’s movie strategy, and as a result they’re just trying to pillory the Snyder stuff as much as possible until they feel like they can pivot away….. even though WB already pivoted? I know they’re trying to figure out how to deal with Henry Cavill, but we’ve got JP Joker and a sequel coming, we’ve got RPatz Hot Topic Batman, and we’ve got tons of TV shows connected to that stuff also coming. Plus they’ve got Shazam, which is by leaps and bounds the best Snyderverse movie. So just build off that. And it wouldn’t surprise me that this is somehow low key connected to bailing Elon out of that fucking Twitter buy. Are the Discovery people investors in Tesla?


btouch

The rumblings are that Zaslav wants to make an actual DC studio (ala you know who) versus just having the office at WB/New Line (_Shazam!_ and its associated spin-off and sequel being New Line films) that only lightly supervises production of these things.


MechaNegaNicuts

Half of this reads as "Man fired from job is angry with former employer" And the other half "not everyone on the internet is real or sincere" Such empty calories, but I do enjoy learning about BTS drama in Hollywood


brick0302

> "Joss Whedon’s on-set treatment of the cast and crew of Justice League was gross, abusive, unprofessional, and completely unacceptable,” Fisher tweeted. He added, bringing Snyder’s alleged threat regarding his onetime colleagues to fruition five days after Snyder made his final push to have the pair removed: “He was enabled, in many ways, by Geoff Johns and Jon Berg.” (Nearly all of the insiders interviewed by Rolling Stone say they believe Fisher and Snyder were working in tandem, based on Fisher’s tweets coming directly on the heels of Snyder’s behind-the-scenes demands. Snyder calls the allegation “totally untrue”; Fisher declined comment to Rolling Stone.) Gal Gadot echoed Fisher’s complaints about Whedon’s on-set behavior, saying that the director “kind of threatened my career and said if I did something, he would make my career miserable.” The actress Charisma Carpenter — who had worked with Whedon on two TV series — took to Twitter to say the director had “abused his power on numerous occasions while working together on the sets of Buffy the Vampire Slayer and Angel.” The insiders really seem trustworthy here. /s


mysterymaninurhome

Literally saying Fisher’s comments about Whedon being a POS were fake to help Snyder lol. It’s so effed up how obsessive people are with Snyder fans and completely ignore the joss stuff


duckspurs

Who the hell is ignoring the Joss stuff? The difference is it's settled, people mostly accept he's an abusive creep even if he made good things previously. He also isn't currently working anywhere now thanks to that. The only effed up thing is how people try to use the cudgel of you aren't being mad at a different fucked up thing to try and provide cover for their shitty behavior.


mysterymaninurhome

Snyder hasn’t done anything fucked up or shitty, that’s the difference. The insinuation of this article, that the black actor who said Joss was being abusive (and possibly racist) was doing so as a plot hatched by he and Snyder is absolutely gross and disgusting. Thinking that Snyder and Whedon are comparable in terms of transgressions here is frankly embarrassing.


duckspurs

The people comparing them are Snyder fans trying to use it as a defense. And Snyder 100% stoked the flames of his fans to harass people online to get his Snyder cut. Whether he or people around him bought the bot army or not, he still happily let that shit grow and fed into it. You don't even have to touch the Ray Fisher issue which I haven't remarked on cause I agree its a lot of dot connecting without much substance backing it up.


mysterymaninurhome

The point is people tweeting “release the Snyder cut” is not in the same universe as harassment. The reason people bring up Whedon is because he is involved in this situation and is actually accused of being a bad person, not just “I’m sure he stoked the fires of toxic tweets saying “you work for Disney””


duckspurs

The point is you are purposefully understating what Snyder fans did when it came to their online campaign to get the Snyder cut while trying to bring up a completely different shitty thing and dude which I have never once said I think is good to deflect from the Snyder criticism. You keep proving my point.


[deleted]

SnyderCut fans are just loud and annoying. That’s not being shitty. Out of all the toxic fans, they are low on the totem pole.


mysterymaninurhome

What is your point? Snyder fans tweeting release the Snyder cut isn’t harassment. I also don’t feel bad for a corporation for getting bullied, I think it’s hilarious.


burnettski92

lol at the snyder acolytes defensively trying to shrug this article off as WB propoganda or saying "13% is that big a deal" the vast majority of you still sent daily death threats and used a suicide as emotional manipulation to get your big boy movie. your fandom is rotten to its core


[deleted]

>the vast majority Do you have a citation for that?


Anth_Reg

My eyes


[deleted]

Eyewitness accounts are infamously useless. Especially when it comes to comments. Did you know the majority of internet comments are absolutely nothing? And beyond the nothing are mostly comments of praise and encouragement? And the minority are negative and gross comments? Despite this twitch streamers will still take in a minority of negative and hurtful comments as the majority. So if all you have is your eyes im simply more convinced it wasnt the vast majority.


Anth_Reg

Hehe I got you to type all that.


GolfWangDuckies

I have their citations right here: https://i.imgur.com/bo79OU3.jpg


OrangeBallofPain

I understand that the worst of the Snyder fans were very toxic and awful but I don’t see how this attitude is much better.


mysterymaninurhome

This comment is more deranged than what the vast majority of Snyder fans - who don’t send death threats - acted like


brick0302

The article presenting WB insiders' BS conspiracy about how Whedon is an innocent victim uncritically deserves to be criticized.


[deleted]

[удалено]


thishenryjames

The most important part of any creative endeavour is having a clearly defined winner and loser.


burnettski92

I figured this was the case from the beginning. I still feel so insane when people act like that cut was a win for love and art or whatever they pretended it was about.


[deleted]

How does bots change that?


duckspurs

How does an inauthentic start to the campaign change how one should view the campaign? Hmmmmm


[deleted]

I dont think it means people who wanted it didnt actually care about art.


[deleted]

It’s good that filmmakers can make the movie they wanted instead of what the focus groups wanted


jdgiant13

Everyone involved in the whole thing are pretty fucking gross. Neither the studio nor Snyder come out clean with this stuff. Ew.


TehIrishSoap

All this hassle for a terrible movie that was outgrossed by an Ant-Man sequel that no one remembers.


NlitendOperativ

I’ll admit the flash scene was a bit corny, Superman’s “not impressed” was better. But great movie and I’m not a bot I’m a real boy darn it!


clemdrix

pretty good movie though. also the only JL we’re gonna get in this lifetime most likely cause holy fuck what is going on at DC


CanyoneroLTDEdition

I mean, it's also how Kubrick won March Madness.


SciFi_Pie

you're probably joking, but i do think the fact the normiest (no hate) contestant won proves there was next to no meddling this year


mysterymaninurhome

Yeah the grim reality is with no cheating or no “super fans” of the show tipping the scales, the biggest normie will probably always win March madness


TheGamerTribune

Now this is a smear campaign I can get behind. F for Fake indeed.


ialsoliketurtles89

I never understood who would want to see a fucking justice league movie from the same director that gave us BvS and suicide squad. Can you not, please? Have a bit of dignity, you are ruining film for all of us if you make studios think that "any shit with superheroes = lots and lots of money" regardless of how crap, braindead and boring it might be.


clemdrix

he didn’t do SS


Anth_Reg

ok.


jkread3

good movie, who cares


GenarosBear

this article’s implication that Ray Fisher, Gal Gadot, and Charisma Carpenter(!) were in some kind of Snyder Cut conspiracy to ruin Warner Bros’ reputation . . .


KellyJin17

Only Ray Fisher. The timeline of his public statements and Snyder’s threats line up suspiciously well. If you ever read his actual allegations, they changed multiple times and he got a Forbes writer fired for printing some of Fisher’s allegations against Whedon that were proven to be untrue. Fisher then proceeded to publicly tweet at Charisma Carpenter and Joss Whedon’s ex-wife for 4 months to get them to speak out against him, before Carpenter finally did. She specifically said she spoke up because WB had fired Ray Fisher from the Flash and he wanted her to help him take down Whedon. Whedon and Gadot did have a fight on the set, and so did Whedon and Affleck after he yelled at Affleck for showing up drunk and overweight everyday and slurring his lines, and so did Whedon and Jeremy Irons, and Whedon also reprimanded the entire cast all at once for refusing to read their lines as written. It was a cursed production for all involved, start-to-finish.


mysterymaninurhome

We’ve reached the point where Ray fisher claiming racial abuse must be a conspiracy so that you can be right about Snyder fans being mean. Jesus.


KellyJin17

Go back and read Fisher’s specific allegations. Now tell me what racial abuse he received from Whedon.


mysterymaninurhome

Being a joss stan in 2022 is to be not worth engaging with


GenarosBear

uh, that is some pretty classic victim blaming, you realize that, right? Like…this subreddit has had its issues recently but I really didn’t think we’d get to this point where we’re going “well, Forbes magazine fired a writer of color for reporting on a black man’s experiences with racism without giving a proper response to his famously abusive employer, so the accusation must be false.” Which is what happened to the Forbes article — per Vanity Fair — not that anything was “proven to be untrue”, just that Fisher said he had been informed of one specific incident of racism that he hadn’t personally witnessed, and then Whedon said that was incorrect, which it may or may not have been. https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2020/10/justice-league-ray-fisher-joss-whedon-allegations In any case, to take one small thing like that and go “well, clearly he was making stuff up” or “hey, it was just a bad time all around, no need to call it abuse” . . . I should be sleeping right now but I feel like I can’t just let that go brushed aside. And to say that Fisher “proceeded to publicly tweet” about it, as though that’s some of unseemly attention-seeking behavior…? And not a perfectly justified stance to take against abuse? Like…you do realize that picking at “minor discrepancies” and “a changing story” in an overall consistent pattern of abuse and harassment is how every single case of abuse is minimized and denied and brushed aside, right? People don’t go on record, in public, to accuse their employers and powerful corporations of racism and sexism just for kicks. Jason Momoa supported Fisher, and then later said that WB was announcing phoney projects to try and deflect blame, was he in on it too? What exactly is his objective there? I mean what are we supposed to believe here, that Fisher, and Momoa, and Gadot, and Charisma Carpenter, who has probably never even met any of those people, they’re all in a plot masterminded by Zack Snyder to force WB into letting him make a shitty HBO Max movie? Give me a fucking break. I fucking cannot believe some of the stuff I’ve seen on this sub lately. These things matter more than your little comic book movie.


throwaway7777777793

this sub has always tended to throw its toys out of the pram when it comes to Snyder but hating him so much that they decide he's responsible for orchestrating a wave of false misconduct allegations is a pathetic new low


Bishb0t

I honestly think the the reason this sub is weird about Snyder is that people liking his mediocre superhero movies this much feels like a bit or a troll. He has this very, *very* dedicated fanbase for these things and it's all very online and conspiratorial and just has this feeling of the sort of thing 4chan might do. It's the Qanon of liking movies. I don't think that's fair on most of his fans, but from a non-fan's perspective it's very hard to see why his "vision" matters so much. I'm not picking a side between Snyder (who seems like an ok guy most of the time) and Whedon (who seems like a piece of shit) but I don't think they should be in direct conflict anyway. It's not like Whedon was whispering in WB's ear to let him have a go. Snyder was fired (rightly or wrongly) and Whedon at the time seemed like a logical replacement.


brick0302

It falls apart in 5 seconds when you think about how many people called him out for being abusive.


DeepThroat616

Duh


Audittore

....no shit


[deleted]

Can't wait until we get the numbers of disney star wars bots


beforrester2

The fact that a certain set of psychos in this sub get so viciously angry about the fact that some people like this guy's movies is really pathetic. There's nothing damning in this article, there's barely even allegations, certainly nothing near evidence. Rumor and mudslinging by the angry multibillion dollar corporation has people down in this comment section saying "See? Snyder's pulled all the strings, it's his fault that black dare accuse my innocent perfect whedon of mistreatment" or "mass donating money to suicide prevention charities is evil because the people who did it like Snyder movies". It's becoming increasingly clear the rabid anti-snyder crowd are the cinema equivalent of QAnon. Nothing needs a grounding in reality cause you decided snyder any anyone who likes him is evil, so anything and everything must be evidence proving you right, whether or not it is. Grow up.


mysterymaninurhome

I don’t get how the people in here obsessing over Snyder fans sound more deranged than actual Snyder fans. Literally seething because people like movies they don’t like.


beforrester2

It's totally insane. Every fan base has toxicity but only Snyder and his fans are somehow held responsible for every bot or bad fan. I've gotten death threats from marvel fans for liking Incredible Hulk more than Endgame, from star wars fans for liking TLJ, many people told me they hoped my mom died because I didn't like EEAAO. I didn't blame the Daniels for that. Of course it's fine to not enjoy his movies, but the way the anti-snyder thing manifests online is a cult in the same way they pretend people liking his movies is.


mysterymaninurhome

Exactly. And the other thing that happens is the harmless tweeting at a corporation to “release the Snyder cut” somehow becomes “toxic harassment”, when literally it isn’t anything close to that. So bizarre.


beforrester2

"Rigging" the oscars dumb fan thing by... voting in it. Votes for Spiderman or whatever are honest and pure but votes for justice league are swarming and rigging and probably abuse somehow


Carouselambro

Poor pathetic WB. It’s not going to work


SamwisethePoopyButt

The whole Snyder cut debacle reminds me of the conversation between Matt Damon's character and the emir in Syriana. WB: "We're going to give you $40 million to finish your movie." Snyder: "Great, how much for my other kids?"


[deleted]

Who cares it as way better than the other cut.


KellyJin17

[Nearly all of the insiders interviewed by Rolling Stone say they believe Fisher and Snyder were working in tandem, based on Fisher’s tweets coming directly on the heels of Snyder’s behind-the-scenes demands. Snyder calls the allegation “totally untrue”; Fisher declined comment to Rolling Stone.](https://www.rollingstone.com/tv-movies/tv-movie-features/justice-league-the-snyder-cut-bots-fans-1384231/) I hate to be that person, but I told people back in 2020 that Zack Snyder was behind Ray Fisher’s accusations against Joss Whedon. It was quite obvious that they had coordinated behind the scenes to settle old scores pertaining to the Justice League fiasco. It was also abundantly clear that Fisher hadn’t suffered any abuse during that shoot and that all of his accusations were second- and third-hand stories he had heard from others, primarily from Snyder. The 3 architects of Snyder losing the director’s job, and of Fisher having his role reduced, were Johns, Berg and Whedon. Whedon was the biggest name and was the easiest to take down, but their goal was always to end the careers of all 3 of them. A lot of folks refused to follow the breadcrumbs and I got a lot of downvotes every time I said it in response to any of the many posts about Snyder/Fisher/Whedon/Johns that littered Reddit over the past 23 months. Well, here we are: Zack Snyder on June 26, 2020: “Geoff and Jon are dragging their feet on taking their names off my cut. Now, I will destroy them on social media.” Ray Fisher on June 28, 2020: “I’d like to take a moment to forcefully retract every bit of this statement.” (Taking back his prior praise of Joss Whedon.) Ray Fisher on July 1, 2020: “Joss Whedon’s on-set treatment of the cast and crew of Justice League was gross, abusive, unprofessional, and completely unacceptable. He was enabled, in many ways, by Geoff Johns and Jon Berg. Accountability > Entertainment” Another part of the story that people ignore is that in June 2020, Fisher had also been told by Walter Hamada that he was not going to be getting his solo movie, and that he was not going to get paid as much money as he was asking for for his Flash role. At this point, you have to be willfully blind not to acknowledge that they planned it all out and worked together in retaliation. That’s a level of salt that I’m honestly impressed by.


[deleted]

How do you explain Gal Godot and everyone else who has worked with Whedon accusing him of abusive behavior?


KellyJin17

That’s why I said Whedon was the easiest to take down. But I’m specifically speaking about Fisher being untruthful about *him* being a victim. Fisher heard about Whedon’s fight with Gadot, and my understanding is Whedon also went off on Affleck for repeatedly showing up drunk and overweight on set. I believe I also heard that Whedon reprimanded the entire cast in a room together for refusing to say their lines as written. It was a very toxic set and Whedon had altercations with half of the main cast. But he only asked Fisher to say his lines, and Fisher made it seem like something worse had been done to him. He knew that wasn’t true, but he pushed that story, and continues to to this day. Because he’s angry about his role being cut. P.S. - Everyone else isn’t quite true. A slew of actors since 2020 have come out to say that they had wonderful experiences with Whedon, including all of the female leads from the Nevers, the actor who plays Martian Manhunter and was part of Zack Snyder’s Justice League, Elizabeth Olsen and Scarlett Johansson, + several other right up until a couple weeks ago. But that doesn’t grab headlines.


brick0302

If he wasn't an abuser, he wouldn't have defended Gal Gadot stuff by saying that she is not good at English so she didn't understand his flowery language. She just has thick accent. Her English is perfectly fine. LOL. Anyone can see through his BS. People who work for WB doing their best defending WB is a predictable behavior. As much as Snyder was irresponsible at best, WB is a complicit at best in terms of allowing bad behavior from fanboys. Also, Scarlett Johansson's opinion doesn't matter LOL. She is no stranger to defending abusers like Woody Allen.


whatwouldjeffdo

So you're believing Affleck and Gadot were mistreated but *not* Fisher?


KellyJin17

I didn’t say Affleck was mistreated. He was showing up drunk and overweight and slurring his lines. Remember when Ray Fisher got that Forbes writer fired for printing Ray’s only specific allegations against Whedon being racist for lightening the color grade of a scene that included a black actor, and then that turned out to be false and Forbes had to retract? I’m sure that writer still remembers.


mysterymaninurhome

Sorry you’re hero joss Whedon is a bad guy. Thankfully you can come to a place like this where a fan sending a tweet out is worse than actually being abusive.


Anth_Reg

This is unhinged


mpjedi21

Who cares? I mean, what does it matter? I'm honestly asking. Is it that important to re-litigate this? Are we gonna just continually go back and forth about who wanted this, who didn't, and what efforts they made to assert their desire? I mean, Jesus, even if it was 3 guys cranking out enough bots and fake accounts to make it happen? That's a hell of a lot of work for the love of art. We all know that there was a ugly element inside the Snyder effort, and Zack went out of his way to denounce it. OK, that's fact. Not gonna sugar coat it, but there were people who just loved what Snyder was doing. All I can say is that, for me, personally? I'm glad to have the Snyder Cut available to me. I certainly don't like everything about it, by a long shot. Yet, it was a hell of a lot better, and more sincerely auteur-driven, than the Whedon version. I guess I'd just rather have a big, messy blast of Snyder excess than a bland, studio notes driven, half-assed attempt at Marvelization.


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mysterymaninurhome

1. This article doesn’t prove that 2. Who cares


mpjedi21

Oh for fucks sake. He's acting just like everyone else in the country then. Also, I think if two guys accused of facilitating the Racial and Sexual harassment of my cast, my collaborators and coworkers, were going to have credit on a film I was making due to a contractual obligation, I might act - forcefully - to have them removed. If it was ANYONE other than Zack Snyder, you'd be cheering him on.


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mpjedi21

>Oh, well that justifies it. Hell no, but this is the world that "internet activism" has given us. Y'know, you're right...You are. But here's the thing, your vehement dismissal of Snyder and his supporters is also based on manipulation. The "Snyder-bros" narrative is just as manipulated as the "Snyder Cut" stuff. If 13% were bots, let's add another 15% for bad-attitude grimdark jerks, that would give us 72% of those folks who were just people who liked a couple of movies, and wanted that storyline completed. We're all being manipulated, for all sorts of ends. It's not just THEM, it's also US. We all gravitate toward the mindset that justifies what we already feel. ​ >I probably wouldn't threaten to destroy them on social media and then immediately arrange for them to be destroyed on social media using those accusations- that would make my accusations that they were facilitating Racial and Sexual harassment immediately suspect that it was just being leveraged to destroy them on social media because I didn't get my way. So, I take it from your really confusing and jumbled response that you don't believe the first-hand accounts of Ray Fisher and Gal Gadot? You think it's OK Joss Whedon treated them like shit, and then (reportedly) got coverage and protection from Geoff Johns and Jon Berg? That Snyder, as a stakeholder with power, shouldn't use that power to force Walter Hamada to do the right thing? And guess what - likely this is because you read to the paywall and then just assumed...He did get his way. He made a private threat (exactly what it was) that NEVER went public. The accusations were public already, from Fisher and Gadot, anyway. But what it comes down to for you seems to be this...be an ally, unless I don't like your movies or your fanbase.


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mpjedi21

Clearly you just want to fight, and are deeply, deeply committed to your own bias and anger. Have a nice day.


throwaway7777777793

never worth engaging with that dude, maybe the most combative aggro weirdo in this sub


TheRealDiscoRob

The ONE time when bots were actually useful.


IndieStudioDisney

> Is that "unnecessary extreme hate" or just an appropriate critical reaction to a guy who keeps getting work at a job he is bad at? Is making fun of the death of Snyder's daughter an "appropriate critical reaction" to his movies? Is calling him a fascist, nazi, comparing him to Mussolini, Hitler and Trump a valid reaction because he directed controversial superhero movies? Many directors have directed bad superhero movies. How many of those were treated like this? When have you ever seen the director of "Ghost Rider" being called a fascist? /u/Wazula42


Wazula42

Ah okay, so its anti-woke grievance bullshit. Thanks man.


IndieStudioDisney

So arguing that the death of the daughter of a director shouldn't be a source of jokes is being "anti-woke" now? Are you hearing yourself?


Wazula42

I'm asking about what makes his movies so great. I dont want the guy harassed at all. This is completely irrelevant to what I'm asking about.


IndieStudioDisney

No. You said that the criticism he gets is fair. I said that having the death of your daughter turned into a source of jokes isn't "fair criticism" for making bad superhero movies. Then you cried "so it's some anti-woke bullshit?". Do you bekieve that people making fun of the death of your daughter is "an appropriate critical reaction" to bad superhero movies?


ShitpostinRuS

Of all the people you could want *off* your movie, I imagine Geoff Johns shouldn’t be one


GoldenGodd94

He is talented forsure but directly responsible for enabling and letting Whedon run roughshod over the cast and crew. Affleck, Gadot, and Momoa all agreed that it was a toxic work environment.


ShitpostinRuS

I see what you’re saying, but if there’s anyone who should be on a JL movie it should be the modern day JL godfather. Snyder is a petty hack


zombieloveinterest

NO. WHAT. NO. IT CAN’T BE. What a fucking waste of time.


JoeViturbo

Rolling Stone also reported that so many people were OD'ing on horse de-wormer in Oklahoma that bullet-wound victims couldn't get admitted into emergency rooms. So, I tend to disbelieve any story from Rolling Stone these days.


theceure

I guess bots donated over a half a million to AFSP and sky net flew banners over WB on several occasions. This is clearly a hit peice on the day of the digital release of his movie. It’s weird how people jump through hoops to hate the dude.


GoldenGodd94

People hate Synder fan so much they actually believe this hit piece lmao


berensolo

Snyder haters can't seem to stop talking about this movie


rolltide_99

I feel like the same thing is currently happening with Ms. Marvel. I don’t personally know anyone who’s into it, or watched it. And the people online hate it. Somehow it’s getting positive reviews.