T O P

LAUKOP has opened a bank account with fake ID. Now the account has been frozen. But if he just goes into the bank and explains it to the manger, it'll be totally OK. Won't it?

LAUKOP has opened a bank account with fake ID. Now the account has been frozen. But if he just goes into the bank and explains it to the manger, it'll be totally OK. Won't it?

opkc

“I’d like to make a withdrawal. Now, for the purpose of proving I’m the account owner, I’m going to use this ID on the left. As you already know, it’s totally fake. Obviously, I can’t use a fake ID at the bank, so I would like to use this different ID on the right to provide a valid ID. This one’s totally legit. Scouts honor. The pictures on both IDs match each other, and my face, so you know it’s the same person and you can give me the money. And, the names on the IDs don’t match, so you know it’s not the same person on the real and fake IDs and you can give me the money.”


cygnet_ring

"I just committed a crime. I can't get in trouble for that, right?"


Voodooyogurtcustard

But it was only a little crime. Don’t you people listen?!


Afinkawan

He's convinced he's indulged in an amusing little shenanigan everyone will get a laugh out of, completely ignoring the fact that forging a driving licence to use for fraudulent purposes can get him up to £5k fine and 10 years at Her Maj's Pleasure.


Voodooyogurtcustard

I also think he’s one of those people who hasn’t realised what ‘A stay at Her Majesty’s Pleasure’ actually means...


SpunkVolcano

He's probably thinking "well, she is single now, and probably very lonely".


Afinkawan

You would, and you know it.


SpunkVolcano

There's a post I saw on /r/uwotm8 that's relevant here but I'm not going to link it because you would immediately have to pour neat Domestos in your eyes.


DeificClusterfuck

What is this monstrosity


Voodooyogurtcustard

I just snort-laughed way louder than I should have!


Afinkawan

Maybe he's getting mixed up with being invited to the Royal Variety Performance.


Voodooyogurtcustard

Yeah, but to be fair I’d want to avoid that too...


Afinkawan

At least it only *feels* like it goes on for 10 years.


Lady_Scruffington

I'm going to open a sex shop called Her Majesty's Pleasure


thidwickthemoose

Her Vajesty’s Pleasure


ShortWoman

And it was only because he is prevented from doing the legal thing (probably because of hinky stuff that had been done in the past)


SpunkVolcano

It does take *work* to get shut out of the UK's financial sector to the point that even the most basic of basic accounts are not legitimately open to you. And by "work", I mean "committing criminal offences".


counterpuncheur

You can achieve it though really bad credit too, which it sounds like was the case here (they talk about CCJs), as normal current accounts tend to have overdraft facilities built into them. There are ‘credit builder’ accounts that would probably have accepted them, but they usually have a monthly charge and limited functionality so LAOP instead chose to try and defraud a bank.


SpunkVolcano

This isn't the case - basic bank accounts are free, available through high street banks and are *explicitly* open to those with CCJs or other credit difficulties. So LAOP had rather less excuse - they weren't even required to pay for a "credit builder" - and this is assuming that it's CCJs and not the more likely option of CIFAS.


ShortWoman

I think you meant that criminal offenses were committed. This seems like a job for past tense.


Triptukhos

Passive voice. Well both past tense *and* passive voice, really.


ShortWoman

I have been corrected. Thank you.


quentinislive

Corrections were made. I apologize if you felt something in The past.


fadeaccompli

"I apologize" is far too direct. It is regrettable that you felt something in the past.


Voodooyogurtcustard

Yeah, so totally justifiable, why on earth wouldn’t the bank manager want to do anything except gift wrap that £300 with a nice big bow for him? Maybe even hand deliver it on a unicorn too, with a cherry on top for good measure! Completely logical thinking by our OP....


doobiesaurus

Pop pop may have committed some light treason...


opkc

[It’s one bank fraud. What could it cost?](https://imgur.com/a/IYpLzPB)


evilmonkey853

I might have committed some light bank fraud.


TwelveBrute04

Not even just “I committed a crime” it’s already at the level of “I got caught committing a crime.” This isn’t gonna end great for my guy unfortunately.


missjeanlouise12

But they haven't initiated any court proceedings against him, so clearly it's not a big deal! /s (OP made that argument many times in the thread).


HarpersGhost

Yep, far too many people think that cops only have a few days to arrest you, and seem to forget that statute of limitations is in *years*. Reminds me of all those dipshits from Jan 6 who went on social media in the couple of days right afterwards and were like, "Well, they haven't arrested me yet, so now I can freely confess to all the crimes I committed a couple days ago. And look! Here's some pics of me doing them!"


jakraziel

Also the U.K. is one of the few places that has no statute of limitations on any crime.


fadeaccompli

Huh. So the only real limitation is "it's no longer practical to prosecute this"?


jakraziel

Pretty much.


RelativelyRidiculous

I used to think lawyer was an easy way to make money with an extraordinarily difficult entry. All those years of terrifically difficult studies, but then you just talk a lot and pay a clerk or three to do documents and file. Then I read through all the absolutely mental insistence from this poster. How can someone be mentally competent to type actual words and still be that determinedly stupid? Worst bit is knowing he can't be the only one. How are there not more lawyers with foreheads beaten flat from beating their heads against the solid wall of stupid like this?


ditasaurus

I think a lot of people think a crime is something hard to achieve. I worked for an online retailer in customer service and people just use different names/ dates of birth to order stuff, without realizing that they commit fraud.


mrskontz14

Or that crime is something that has real consequences for someone involved. It doesn’t seem to hurt anyone to use a fake name/DOB while online shopping, etc, so it just doesn’t occur to them that it’s a crime.


doctorlag

Seriously: >it was an entirely made up person with a fake drivers licence number This was LAOP's way of trying to *minimize* what they did


ZeePirate

It is slightly better though no? Using forged documents instead of stealing an identity


doctorlag

IMO you're right, morally it's *much* better. Legally I'm honestly not sure but it might even be worse. I could see "manufacturing a fake ID #" as a separate crime though.


ZeePirate

Yeah I wasn’t sure on the legal consequences for either. I hope would stealing someone’s ID would be worse because it effects someone. But obviously forged documents effect the bank....


Pille1842

Just to let you know, the word you meant to write is "affect" in both cases


semanticist

Thanks for this tip, it had a big affect on me.


Pille1842

Oh boy.


missjeanlouise12

I love you.


Afinkawan

It *really* is. For passports and driving licences for sure.


evilmonkey853

Who’s to say that the fake ID # doesn’t belong to someone. It *could* still be identity theft or looked at that way.


axw3555

Legally, no. Using someone else's details is just (loosest possible use of the word) passing something off as you when it's not. Forging is not only passing it off as you, but also making it, so it's fraud and forgery.


SpunkVolcano

This is one of the key reasons that thread was removed and locked - because they were seeking to get away with what they did rather than to seek any genuine legal advice.


Afinkawan

Awww, you removed it? He's not trying to minimise his crimes or avoid them, he's obviously just completely fucking oblivious.


SpunkVolcano

And also banned. I am, after all, Stalin. Apparently.


nontoxic_fishfood

"It's my financial alter ego."


ZootTX

After they likely already had previous instances of fraudulent activity, so now they're double fucked.


PurrPrinThom

>Bro, if I had the money for a solicitor, I'd have more than £300 in my account to begin with and wouldn't have any financial problems! This is a gem


UnknownQTY

I mean, he ain’t wrong.


PurrPrinThom

Oh not at all! One of my biggest frustrations is when people come to LA/LAUK and say "I have no money to solve this problem" and LA says "lol idiot you need a lawyer." And I get it. I get that some situations require a lawyer. I get that many things cannot be resolved without legal representation. *But* if you can't afford a lawyer, telling you to get a lawyer isn't helpful. Edit: to be clear, I fully recognise that this particular LAOP desperately does need a lawyer. This comment was intended to be more general and not specific to this thread.


Afinkawan

A lot of solicitors give short, free initial consultations. It really wouldn't take long to get told "Don't go to the bank and demand your money back."


et-regina

True, but given how OP responded to being told that multiple times I doubt they'd pay any more attention to that advice coming from a solicitor!


Afinkawan

I get the feeling he'd still be refusing to believe it as the judge pronounces his sentence.


RelativelyRidiculous

I can see it now. Multiple posts on how r/legaladviceUK unfairly lost him his 300 pounds AND got him jailed unfairly incoming in 3.. 2.. 1


gemc_81

Can confirm. I frequently give out basic advice on legal situations (pertaining to my area of law) to people who call in with a query. If they want more in depth advice then yes they need to pay but there are plenty of solicitors who will confirm LAOP is not to go back to the bank for the money and also confirm what COULD happen to him if they press charges.


maidrey

I’m not sure about the UK but goddamn I know some attorneys in the US who will put together the smallest of payment plans to ensure that people who need it have access to an attorney. I mean, maybe not this guy since he’s apparently determined to go to jail for fraud.... it does frustrate me how often people just say “well I have no money so I’ll fumble along myself.” There are so many situations that get posted that the stakes are high enough or the money involved is enough that they need at least some professional advice. Idk much about UK law but holy shit I know that this dude shouldn’t walk into a bank and be like, “here’s the picture of me and my fake ID B now here’s my real ID, I’ll take cash from my frozen account please.”


gemc_81

Maybe he's trolling. We. Do have that here especially for divorce and child carew matters where you might not get full legal aid. Plus we have no win no fee etc fixed fee interviews. I also offer a free half hour of advice phone or in person (I deal with probate etc) so that families can find out what they need to do when a loved on dies as they ALL worry about the legal side of it when someone dies. There are ways. I'd wager he hasn't bothered to find out at all and probably won't.


RelativelyRidiculous

You say that like this idiot is actually going to do anything other than start arguing why that's got to be wrong just because he doesn't like that answer.


Afinkawan

I guess going to the the bank, admitting fraud and showing them his real ID will get him a free solicitor faster.


OrangeJr36

Definitely will.


SpunkVolcano

Generally I don't think it's a good answer in many situations and it's low effort enough that in most circumstances I'd remove it if that was the only advice someone had to offer and there was no other exigent reason (e.g. if it's far enough above Reddit's paygrade that they really *do* need a professional). After all, the answer to *absolutely every* legal question asked on LAUK could be "see a solicitor" and it would be completely pointless having the subreddit. Unfortunately this was one of those situations where professional help is *really* needed because the OP of that thread had committed multiple criminal offences, and didn't seem to see the issue with just straight up admitting this. Not to mention, he seemed to think that LAUK was a substitute for professional legal advice, despite that being something we categorically do not hold ourselves out to be. There are plenty of options for free legal assistance in the UK, ranging from free half hour consultations to duty solicitors at courts and police stations. (The other issue is that that thread was borderline to begin with but it rapidly became clear that OP was just looking to get away with what they had done, which we're simply not there for.)


PurrPrinThom

Oh absolutely. Sorry, the above comment was intended more to be a general annoyance, because I recognise that yes, in this situation the poster needs a lawyer. There's no way around it.


eeveeyeee

"You can't afford to not get a lawyer" is my least favourite phrase. It completely disregards genuine and severe barriers to legal aid and doesn't provide any meaningful advice as to how to mitigate those limitations.


nimmalt

I had that discussion about a car issue some while back. BIL was very adamant that we'd better spend two hundred now before it turns into two grand later, and wouldn't fucking accept that the point was moot because we didn't even have the two hundred to spare at the time. Like, not even "just save some money here or there" or "break open the savings", just no money left to spare. Of course it's cheaper getting a good counsel and getting the car checked out now, but sometimes you can't even afford "cheap".


theflakybiscuit

It’s expensive being poor. When you have disposable income or at least a little extra after bills you’re able to buy the super size of things - this saving money. A lot of people in poverty don’t have access to basic thing that others have like a washer/dryer, a car, good, or any, healthcare. That in and of itself pushes people to do others things like take public transportation or walk to the laundromat - a situation where having the super size version of detergent and dryer sheets isn’t a good thing. Getting legal advice if you live paycheck to paycheck is impossible. I don’t know of any lawyers that accept a payment plan for help. I worked with my states legal aid society in college to help get legal access to more areas. The law firm got a certain amount from the state and federal government but that was it, they had to spread it out for the whole year so making sure everyone in our area could get help wasn’t possible without cutting the budget elsewhere. It’s a catch 22


PerviouslyInER

> You can't afford to not get a lawyer It's like telling Sam Vimes to buy the most expensive boots.


Katrianah

To be fair when he married Lady Sybil there was an attempt to put him in "good" boots. He hated them. Couldn't tell where he was by the feel.


DontFuckFrogs

"You can't afford to not get a lawyer" "Ok, cool. I have $37 in my checking account and I make $15 an hour. Know any criminal defense lawyers worth a shit that I can get with that and still be able to pay my rent?" Being poor is effectively a crime in and of itself.


gemc_81

See the thing is that you have a split on the LA subs between a small percentage of posters who know the law relevant to the question and the rest just give opinion on what they THINK it should be and who have no legal knowledge whatsoever. If you have a legal problem then in a lot of cases it IS best to consult a qualified solicitor/attorney who specialises in that area especially if the issue concerns significant financial loss or potential criminal charges. LAOP problem is not minor - this isn't the guy tooting his trumpet at antisocial hours, he has committed bank fraud and if he wants to know what the likely outcome of this is he needs to be asking someone who practices criminal law and can advise him. The fact that he can't afford adequate legal advice is neither here nor there. He's not gonna suddenly get a criminal barrister pop up on reddit that can give him the lay of the land for free. It's above a legal advice subs pay grade.


wstephens55

This is why I only comment in bola and not in LA itself, I have no credibility to backup anything I think I know


Afinkawan

That's why I like LAUK. Nobody gives a flying fuck that I have no credibility outside pharma/med device law and simple employment stuff I've learnt through being a manager.


archbish99

LA is the legal equivalent of the nurse line. They can't treat the issue, just tell you whether it sounds like ER, Urgent Care, or call your GP in the morning. They also give you the applicable terminology to get routed to the right place and taken seriously. But also like the nurse line, there are things where it doesn't do much good to call, because they're legally required to tell you to go to the ER.


AllHarlowsEve

And sometimes you get the nurse who thinks vaccines cause autism and who suggests theraputic massage to treat broken bones because that just feels right to them.


zkidred

Yeah, I really like the idea of LA, but results really vary. I've tried to give context to a few questions, but it doesn't get very far when I tell them I can't give more than encyclopedic information and LAOP isn't impressed. I'm not your lawyer. The other half of the time time seems like just calling out bad information a bunch of randos pull from Law & Order.


gemc_81

This is also so true. I've had people argue the law with me on matters that I actually deal with in my area of law every damn day . I am a lawyer who has been practicing my area of law for 20 years and I have some yahoo arguing a completely incorrect point with me because "this is what he did" Yes buddy. And what you did was wrong. Now kindly fuck off.


SpunkVolcano

I really like this analogy and I'd like to use it in some sense on LAUK because some people really don't grasp that we're not a source of professional legal advice...


dragonseth07

"You can't afford NOT to get a lawyer!" "Well, I still can't afford one, so I guess I'm just off to jail then."


tadpole511

It's like not being able to afford to go bankrupt. Some situations truly are a catch-22.


Katrianah

One of the biggest shocks of my adult life was discovering how much bankruptcy can cost upfront.


Bullywug

This is also why people sit in jail for months or longer over a couple hundred bucks in bail. Edit: For whoever downvoted me, people [literally die in jail because they can't make $100 bail](https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/04/the-dangerous-domino-effect-of-not-making-bail/477906/).


missjeanlouise12

Similar to racking up exorbitant storage fees at the tow yard because they can't afford to pay to get their car out.


hydrangeasinbloom

Or getting charged a fee for having less than a minimum amount in your bank account, so you end up in the negative with no way to pay it.


arkstfan

In the US in some cases you have the ability to get civil assistance via Legal Aid or similar organizations. Unfortunately they are strapped in what they can take on. I can’t take on clients because my employer won’t permit it except a limited set of case types for immediate family but I do a lot of CLE from our local Legal Aid and they’ve got people who blow me away with their knowledge. I assume UK has something similar.


Katrianah

They do but it's been decimated.


spaghatta111

Well you might need a lawyer, whether you can pay is another issue altogether I may need surgery, but if my insurance refuses to cover the surgery, and I can’t pay for the surgery, then I guess I can just go fuck myself


vivekisprogressive

Its expensive to be poor.


riverY90

The best shit advice on the thread: "Can you get a joint account with a family member or someone you trust explicitly and use that (it would be a pain because to be safe from that person taking all your money that they have legal access to, you’d have to only deposit what you needed to use that required a bank account." Like... can OP get an account with a family member who *OP* trusts. The real question is would OPs family trust them enough to get a joint account and not have OP fuck their credit score?


Afinkawan

"Yeah, sure, I'll open a joint bank account with you, cousin. Wait - when did you change your name to Pentonville Fandango?"


PurrPrinThom

If OP can't get a bank account on their own, why would they be able to get a joint one? I feel like the bank would still shut that down. It's not like having another person on it magically erases the bank's concerns about LAOP.


archbish99

Yeah, joint credit is an answer to bad credit, but joint accounts are an answer to two people with shared finances.


radiorentals

Many years ago I worked for a credit reference agency and (I'm not sure the same is correct now) if someone with terrible credit had a joint account with someone who had good credit, the bad credit just dragged the other person down, not the other way round!


archbish99

I was under the impression that a co-signer would improve the odds of issuing a loan, because the bank would have someone stable on the hook for the debt. I can totally understand they would *not* extend the preferential interest rates the stable person alone would get -- they're factoring in the expense of getting someone to pay up!


crazydisneycatlady

I have terrible credit (grad school credit cards are just a bad idea) but make more than twice what my mom does, though she has very good credit. She had to co-sign with me so I could get a car loan. The idea that *she* would be the one paying if I defaulted is absolutely ludicrous, there’s no way she could afford that!


riverY90

But who would want to sign themselves as a guarantor to someone unlikely to pay and leave you on the hook? My SO had a bandmate who needed a guarantor to rent because of bad credit, but they would only allow someone with a mortgage to be that person. His parents didn't have a mortgage so my SO asked if I would do it. I'd met the guy 3 times and had no idea what his situation was like. I said no and told him to find a different estate agent to rent through. Think he found a place where he didn't need a guarantor in the end.


thingsliveundermybed

Which they clearly don't - a family member has apparently put money in their dodgy account, but no one seems to want to volunteer to let LAOP use their card/account for purchases, Netflix etc., which would make things much easier for everybody.


monkeyman80

They doubled down with “it can’t get any worse right?”


Afinkawan

Narrator: "It got worse."


theonearmedpenguin

It can always get worse, especially when you storming into a bank, telling them you've committed fraud and demanding money, who's source may be dubious as best, to be handed back to you. I suspect the local Fuzz may have some interesting words for him...


Afinkawan

I just can't understand the thought process there. He's created a fake document that's very illegal in its own right, then used it to fraudulently open a bank account. Now he thinks that admitting/proving what he did will get him a "Sorry for the inconvenience Sir, would you like that in 20s?" and the bank will ignore all the laws that mean that they have to report fraud.


PsychosisSundays

From reading all his comments he seems to understand it's likely that he'll get into some legal trouble if he goes and asks for his money back, but he's convinced it won't be any worse than paying a small fine and as such it's worth the risk. Dude's deluded.


Marc21256

"Bro, if I had the money to pay my child support payments, I wouldn't be illegally hiding £300 under a fake name so I didn't have to pay that bitch £20 just because those fucking courts ordered me to..." I can't think of any other reason someone who was broke and claims a non criminal lifestyle would need to have an account under a fake name.


joshi38

I'll say this, I work for an org in the UK that helps people in debt (I don't work for that specific department mind you, so don't know a *lot* about it) and we've definitely come across a handful of people who are stuck not being able to open bank accounts because of CCJ's for debts (which he claims to have had). So it's entirely plausible that he's not previously committed fraud nor trying to skip out on child maintenance (it's also plausible that he is..) and is simply desperate for a bank account since it's seemingly impossible to function in society in the UK without one (especially if you're broke, if he's on benefits, he *has* to have a bank account, gone are the days when you can claim benefits without one).


ThunderJane

What does CCJ stand for in this context?


Willeth

A County Court Judgement. Sits on your credit file if you are taken to court for a debt and lose. https://www.gov.uk/county-court-judgments-ccj-for-debt


ThunderJane

Thanks!


axw3555

County Court Judgment. Kinda similar in principal to small claims judgment. Court issues a judgment against you, either for a payment plan or the whole value. Pay it within 30 days, no credit impact (unless that's changed recently, it's not something that comes up in my life) otherwise it goes on your credit report for 6 years and is a pretty bad black mark to have on your record.


RelativelyRidiculous

Hang on you get 30 days to pay no credit impact in the UK? Yet another way the US sucks ass. Even having one filled in error which ends up thrown out of court gives a negative hit to your credit that lasts minimum 7 years here. Couldn't even get it removed by providing proof it was filed in error due to a typo transferring the guy's social off his handwritten application.


Marc21256

Do banks in the UK have no options? In the US, I could open a "cash only" account, where I got no cheques or cards, but had to go into a branch for every transaction (except deposits). High fees, inconvenient, but a legal option, even for the worst credit and outstanding judgements.


Afinkawan

They have 'basic' accounts but normally you'd have to go into the bank to open one, not their website. No fees, no overdraft, no cheques etc. For the truly desperate there are Post Office accounts which are even more basic - literally can't do anything without going into a branch.


SpunkVolcano

> They have 'basic' accounts but normally you'd have to go into the bank to open one, not their website. Many of them can now be opened online. This *used* to be the case a few years back before the FCA made some very "you know, making it *harder* for people who want basic accounts to get them makes us upset" noises in that direction.


Wolfeh2012

I feel like this is an unfair take. There are all sorts of honest people just trying to get by who legitimately mean no harm in their actions. It's not uncommon for people with a few CCJ's to be closed out of the entire financial sector. It makes literally everything in life a pain. Getting paid for a job, paying out bills, buying groceries, all becomes 10x more work than for the average person -- and someone who has CCJ's was already struggling before that happened. So while this person was absolutely stupid; you don't have to fabricate a story where they're also an asshole.


SomethingMoreToSay

**Original text:** >I opened a UK bank account online using a fake ID/fake utility bill. The bank approved the account, sent out the card etc. A couple of months later though they've blocked the account and said I need to send copies of my passport to their fraud department (I opened it with a fake drivers license) >While there's been no prosecution (and they havent outright said they know anything) it's pretty clear this isnt standard, and I don't have a legit passport to show them anyway. >The account wasn't set up as part of some grand criminal enterprise or money laundering, it was just so I'd be able to open a bank account as I had financial troubles in the past and now no bank will let me open an account legitimately. No one lost any money, I had a few hundred pounds in the account that I was using just for normal expenses. >Potential legal consequences? Any way I could get that money back? The account is frozen right now 'pending investigation'. **Cat fact:** The cat flap was invented by Sir Isaac Newton.


17291

> The cat flap was invented by Sir Isaac Newton. Bonus cat fact: Gottfried Leibniz invented a similar cat flap around the same time. Although there was a controversy at the time and accusations of plagiarism, modern historians believe that Newton and Leibniz came up with the idea independently.


Pille1842

I think Leibniz‘ cat flap is superior, but this opinion has been influenced by school books peppered with a little nationalism.


LovepeaceandStarTrek

Liebniz' design is more robust and easier to be understood by modern engineers, although Newton's cat flap hit the market a few months before. Some suggest Newton was rushing prototype cat flaps to market after hearing Liebniz was developing his own.


Tramin

> Sir Isaac Newton. Actually, Robert Hooke. Newton lured him into trying his own cat flap where his hunch was caught and he finished his days, half in, half out.


LovepeaceandStarTrek

From what I've read, cat flap historians could go back and forth for years. Unsurprisingly there's a geographic correlation between which countries recognize whom as the rightful inventor of the cat flap. Of course, the Babylonians invented cat flaps centuries before Newton, Liebniz, and Hooke were even born, but eurocentrism has erased that.


Afinkawan

It's a door, within a door, which opens through a *completely different spatial dimension*. Of course it took a genius like that to invent it. It only seems obvious to us in retrospect.


Fyrestar333

Thanks


malipupper

The good posts always dirty delete so thank you. Lol what an idiot jesus.


seanprefect

On today's episode on how to ruin your life for under 500 dollars ...


JWBails

£300 to be precise!


saviorofworms

$500? What are you, a trust fund baby?


deird

> They'll obviously be no 'time' for something so trivial. Aw, bless.


Trollslayer0104

The way OP keeps doubling down in comment after comment is priceless. Here's one of my favourite responses from another redditor: > Ok then. Don't get a solicitor. Try to figure this out on your own. Clearly you have made some fantastic decisions in this respect so far.


711-3459

A bank account almost feels like a basic need, is there someplace a, erm, person of dubious nature can go to get any sort of account if the mainstream banks are blocking them?


SeveralFishannotaGuy

It sounds like they’ve been filling in application forms online and getting a “computer says no” answer. What they should have done was make an appointment to talk to someone at the bank, explore the problem with getting an account and ask what the options are.


[deleted]

And instead they’re going to eventually get a nice visit from some friendly (or not so friendly) folks and get some new shiny bracelets and have even more problems getting an account for a very long time.


Afinkawan

I wonder how much snout his £300 will get him in HMP Slade these days?


SeveralFishannotaGuy

For a habitual criminal who presumably sees arrest as an occupational hazard? Naff off, charmless nerk!


[deleted]

That’s assuming her majesty’s government doesn’t confiscate it.


Afinkawan

There are very basic bank accounts people with shitty credit history can get. I think people with fraud markers are limited to Post Office accounts.


strangesam1977

There is a basic bank account in the UK, (https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/banking/basic-bank-accounts/) but I'm not sure if they can be refused..


JimboTCB

Basic bank accounts I'm pretty sure can't be refused outside of possibly special situations like being subject to government sanctions. They're specifically designed for people who have shitty or nonexistent credit history. The problem is they make absolutely no money for the bank, so while they're legally required to offer them, they're not required to advertise them or tell people about them - it's one of those things that unless you're already aware of them and know what specifically to ask for, you're probably not going to finds out about them by accident.


SpunkVolcano

You're correct. Bankruptcy is another bar to most of them but the ones listed on the page /u/strangesam1977 linked all accept undischarged bankrupts. There are however two things that will absolutely kibosh you getting one, and it's either government sanctions (as you say) or a record of fraud.


sajohnson

I think there are like secured accounts for people with really bad credit. No doubt they charge a lot in fees, and make sure you’re never floating any checks or anything. But you’d probably have to keep any account below a certain money-threshold if there are judgements against you where your assets can be seized.


Some1-Somewhere

It looks like cheques are in terminal decline in the UK, and although they have not yet been completely disestablished and there are no current plans to do so (unlike here in NZ), they are completely unnecessary for day-to-day life. I am surprised it is difficult to get an account opened that doesn't include any credit or cheque facilities.


Afinkawan

> It looks like cheques are in terminal decline in the UK It's basically only the huge novelty ones left now.


Tarquin_McBeard

No souvenir cheques? Can I get a souvenir cheque?


dorri732

> souvenir cheque It's an old reference, but it checks out.


trekologer

Or does it cheque out?


Front_Kaleidoscope_4

In denmark the huge novelty cheques are fake and we have gotten rid of the system entirely. Some of the Banks will make them for international use if requested I think. But they don't accept them and generally don't interact with the system at all.


MaximumAsparagus

I feel like high fees would actually make the bad credit situation worse...


sajohnson

It’s expensive to be poor.


sneakyplanner

If you're rich enough: Switzerland.


Jackretto

I'm not sure, but here the postal service offers a prepaid card that can quite well work as an "account" I'm not sure how they'd react with a bad credit score though, when I opened mine they didn't seem to run any check as they needed only my ID, an opening fee and minutes later it was all set up


MPenten

In France it's your human right. Can't be refused basically, within reasons.


counterpuncheur

They’re generally called ‘credit builder’ accounts, and they’re mostly prepaid cards with zero overdraft facility (and lacking many other features). https://www.money.co.uk/current-accounts/bank-accounts-for-bad-credit.htm


drleebot

Here's a site I found with guidance for people with a criminal history trying to put their lives back together, on this issue in particular: https://hub.unlock.org.uk/knowledgebase/criminal-convictions-history-fraud/#Rejected Basically, if you've been rejected due to past fraud, your options of last resort are a managed bank account or a prepaid card.


dasunt

So legit question - is there any way the bank hasn't notified the authorities? Not sure how UK banking works, but in the US, banks literally have paid out massive amounts in penalties for failures in fraud detection. They tend to take this stuff seriously as a result. Wells Fargo got fined in the billions for just opening accounts for real people.


Afinkawan

> So legit question - is there any way the bank hasn't notified the authorities? Yes - if they haven't yet identified definitely fraud. At the moment it's (potentially) still "Confirm your identity with a second legal ID so we can make sure it's not a fuck-up."


oldgrouchygit

I want to offer up a nice witty comment after reading through that thread, but the only words that spring to mind are _Jesus fucking Christ_.


Afinkawan

I've got a feeling the judge will be muttering something similar.


Alice__L

It's a complete Charlie Foxtrot.


MyPassword_IsPizza

>How is it your money? It’s not in your name. You are unable to prove it is yours legally as the bank account belongs to a person who doesn’t exist. .. >By that logic there's no fraud case to answer either 💯


zkidred

Wow, this may take the cake for the most deaf, in-denial LAOP I've ever seen. "Let me ignore every comment about my felonious activities and just tell me how to fraud my couple hundred coins back. Wow you are all silly."


Saraneth

Certainly this is stupid, but I do feel bad for LAOP. It’s almost impossible to get by without a bank account. Committing fraud is obviously not the best way to convince banks you’re no longer Frankie Fraudster, but after having watched family members in similar situations, it really is incredibly difficult to claw your way back from that sort of thing even when you do everything right.


Pille1842

I don’t get why no bank would give OP a bank account. As I understand it, there are basic bank accounts in the UK. If this works similar to what I’m used to in Germany, banks are obliged to provide these for anyone. They might not come with online banking or the ability to overdraw, but they do cover the basic need to take part in halfway modern transfer of money.


SpunkVolcano

> I don’t get why no bank would give OP a bank account. As I understand it, there are basic bank accounts in the UK. There is literally one reason that will surefire shut you out of even the most basic bank accounts, and it's a past history of committing financial crimes.


Pille1842

Fair enough, I just looked that up. Suspicion of fraud or money laundering is grounds to refuse a basic bank account.


evilmonkey853

Good thing LAUKOP has never been involved in any of that! 😳


SpunkVolcano

There is a rather pervasive attitude among some people that it's fine to defraud banks (or indeed insurance companies) because they aren't real people and they won't do anything, or it's morally justified in some sense. LAUKOP, unfortunately, has fucked around and found out.


fertileoctagenarian

>There is literally one reason that will surefire shut you out of even the most basic bank accounts, and it's a past history of committing financial crimes. hOw iS tHat eVeN jUsTiCe bRo?


JimboTCB

The problem is that there are basic bank accounts available which the larger banks are legally required to provide even to people with terrible credit histories precisely to avoid financial exclusion. However it appears LAUKOP never found out about this and just tried to DIY everything, and when every bank's automated standard account opening process told him to fuck off, he jumped straight to committing bank fraud to open an account. It's the sort of thing which could have been resolved up front by just going into a bank and talking to someone. But now he's just made it infinitely more difficult for himself to open any sort of financial products going forwards, assuming he's not just going to have his living expenses taken care of at Her Majesty's pleasure for the time being.


dasunt

In the US, if you keep screwing up bank accounts, you are put on a list and it's very difficult to open an account. The US is kinda special.


Pille1842

That works very similarly in Germany, too. There’s a private agency called Schufa (Company for General Credit Security) which keeps a list of everyone’s debts and makes recommendations to banks and other companies to determine the trustworthiness of potential customers. It’s a pain in the ass to deal with them. (There are other credit agencies too, but Schufa is by far the most important.) However, the state has recognized that the ability to receive and send money is a basic necessity for every citizen, even those who might have screwed up in the past. So a law was put into place which requires banks to offer a basic account to *any* customer, no questions asked. It’s not great, it doesn’t come with many perks, but it allows you to take part in the economy. So I guess that second paragraph is the difference between the US and other first world countries.


eric987235

People like that in the US end up cashing checks at Walmart for a high fee and keeping their money in cash or on a prepaid debit card.


Haloisi

Interestingly that makes life without bank account easier in the USA than in large parts of Europe. Checks don't even exist anymore where I live, normal employers don't pay out in cash, and I don't know how it would be possible to survive without bank account...


jimbo831

A lot of employers don’t pay out with checks anymore either. There’s been a huge industry of paying via prepaid debit cards. Unless employees set up direct deposit, they often don’t have a choice. These cards are usually pretty predatory. They come with high fees and difficult to understand terms. This is one of many ways large corporations (the banks that have these cards and the companies that use them to pay their employees) take advantage of poor people due to a complete lack of regulation.


notwearingwords

In the US it is Chexsystems. And it can happen for any number of reasons. For instance, did you know that employers can recall a paycheck, even a final paycheck, months after it was issued and deposited — and spent? In exhibit A, it was 67 days. This will overdraft your account. Once upon a time, it would not only overdraft your account, but EVERY SINGLE charge* made to that account after your paycheck (deposited and cleared) would then result in a ($35) overdraft fee. (*this was changed, negating most of Exhibit A in present day. Thanks Obama.) Resolving the issue and clearing the account requires paying the amount in full, including overdraft fees (they waived the first one, because you are a loyal customer), from another checking account (you have one right?), within 30 days. Of the first overdraft. Which was 60 days ago. Chexsystems is a separate report, which you have a right to a report on- but no one ever mentions it. You don’t know you’re on it, but you know you’re on it. It is separate from your credit report. You could have perfect credit, and still be on Chexsystems. Of course, if all of the above happens, you get a lawyer—oh wait. You have a negative bank balance over $20k now, thanks to a final paycheck for $1,800. Which is reversed! And reissued! But that doesn’t fix the overdraft fees.


Saraneth

The LA poster was located in the UK. It sounds like he has a CIFAS marker, which I believe is a bit like getting black listed on ChexSystems.


lilneccowafer

I used a major brick-and-mortar bank from age 15-22, originally opened it with my mom (whom never touched it). It was my first and only bank account that entire time. Around 20 (after having the account in perfect standing with regular deposits for 5 years) I spent a year of living with my financially abusive ex draining my account and making me overdraw here and there. I cleaned up all of the debt in less than a month despite $30 overdraft fees hitting me in the face daily, kept the account at a low balance for another year, and then chose to close it with a still positive balance. My ChexSystems report comes back 100% clean. But I have still been denied every bank account under the sun, even ones like Chime. I am perplexed.


stilldreamingat2am

Could he have possibly opened separate bank accounts in your name and you’re just unaware? I use a basic credit report app and I’ve never seen bank accounts on my reports. How would you know?


lilneccowafer

Wading through the BS I've come to learn that it isn't related to credit that much, if at all. ChexSystems reports are what most US banks seemingly go off of, & it's kinda similiar to a credit report, but it's more like a list of every flagged item from your bank(s) regarding every checking account you open. My brain is letting out a steady stream of fart so I can't piece together the words properly, but I hope you know what I mean. Like if your account overdrafted too frequently or sat in the negative too long, if you tried to fraudulently dispute a charge, etc. ETA you can request your chexsystems report just like you can request a credit report, but idk how well that works, like I said above mine comes back squeaky clean but I'm still being denied accounts usuallu on the basis of a slew of bad chexsystems reports


notwearingwords

Find a bank manager at a local branch and ask. Try for: a) the bank that you banked with. b) a credit union. c) OG Bank of America on the West Coast (a branch that has been open since the 1980s might work best). I escaped an abusive employer only because I had a very kind bank manager.


underwritress

I feel bad for him because he appears to be excruciatingly stupid, and that’s gotta be tough.


liladvicebunny

I can understand his viewpoint, but I want to sit him down and give him a nice calming cup of tea and explain *why* no one wants to encourage him to go talk to the bank, since he just doesn't seem to get it. Getting your money back from a frozen account *when you did absolutely nothing wrong in the first place* can be enough of a pain in the ass (and involve an ombudsman and a lot of yelling).


tragicworldrecord

As an AML person I actually feel a bit sorry for him. Financial exclusion is a big issue.


riverY90

What is AML if you don't mind me asking


Afinkawan

I'm guessing Anti Money Laundering.


Snoopy7393

I mean, aren't we all anti money laundering people then?


Afinkawan

The real anti money laundering was inside us all along


SomethingMoreToSay

Just a guess, but I don't think _everybody_ is anti money laundering.


ReplicatedPenguin

Anti-Money Laundering.


a_flyin_muffin

“We launder both money and anti money particles, come on down for explosive deals!”


Pille1842

I feel bad for him too and I know people who have been in a similar situation. It’s the "committing fraud" part that doesn’t find my sympathy.


BritishDeafMan

A lot of these people who are in this situation wasn't because they knowingly and actively tried to defraud people. Most of times, they were unwitting money mules who didn't realise the whole story and didn't realise what they were doing was a crime.


geshupenst

As much as I feel bad for the dude, I can't believe he is so delusional that he's much more concerned about getting the few hundred bucks back than minimizing his legal consequences. Everyone's responses were: talk to a lawyer/solicitor for a proper legal advice, but he's like, "uh.. yeah but if I explain the situation to the bank, they'll just give me back my money and we're all good right?"


Zardif

Is a confession evidence of a crime? Is he destroying evidence by deleting his post as one poster suggested?


geshupenst

Anything you say can and will be used in court of law. It may not be a direct evidence of the crime itself, but either a circumstantial or an impeachment evidence. I'm not a litigator (plus, i don't know UK laws), so I'm not sure, but I'm guessing that it wouldn't necessarily be intentional destruction of evidence when there is a duty to preserve. But if it were deleted, then the fact that it was deleted could be brought up.


[deleted]

[удалено]


yerilit

UK answer would be: You can always open a "basic bank account" if you have *poor credit*. The account won't have an overdraft, and will have a Visa Electron or similar type debit card (these only work on payment systems which validate payments in real time). However, LAOP has a *fraud marker* against their name. The banks' think they have been involved in a fraud in the past. This sometimes hits victims of fraud, who were persuaded by a "friend" or scammer to launder money through their bank account. With a fraud marker, you can be denied even a basic account.


phyneas

> I've heard that in America some people can't open bank accounts because they have bad credit or not enough money. Most banks don't look at your credit score specifically for normal retail accounts (though some do, especially for certain types of accounts), but you can definitely be denied an account if you have black marks on your banking history, which is tracked by a different reporting agency, ChexSystems, and logs things like overdrafts, not paying fees, or writing or trying to lodge bad checks. If you do that sort of shite, the banks generally want nothing to do with you, as you'll probably just cost them money in the end, and if you're that shite with money then you probably won't be qualifying for a mortgage or loan or a fancy credit card, nor will you be buying their nice profitable investment products, so there's no upside to establishing a relationship with you. There are a few banks which will take on such high-risk customers, but they will generally ream you hard with very high fees in the process to make up for that risk. > I'm just confused because I don't know how anyone would get by without a bank account. Unfortunately it is very difficult to do so, and the banking system is just one of the many ways in which being poor is fucking expensive, sadly. Without access to a bank account, folks often have to turn to shady check cashing services just to cash their paychecks (which also charge hefty fees, of course), and have difficulty paying bills and things like rent, which further limits their options. And even if they are able to get one of those high-fee accounts, the fees are very difficult to manage for someone who's struggling to get by on a low income.


MutedMessage8

CCJs don’t stop you from opening a basic bank account. I worked with someone briefly who had about 5 or 6 against them and never had a problem opening a basic current account. Sure, they wouldn’t be able to get a credit card or overdraft, but they definitely had a bank account.