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[Advocates for Minor Leaguers] We’ve just been told that multiple players on the Bowie Baysox are considering sleeping in their cars beginning tomorrow night. The Baysox are the Double-A affiliate of the Baltimore Orioles.

[Advocates for Minor Leaguers] We’ve just been told that multiple players on the Bowie Baysox are considering sleeping in their cars beginning tomorrow night. The Baysox are the Double-A affiliate of the Baltimore Orioles.

pm_me_cute_sloths_

Thread continued: “We’re told that members of the Baysox will receive ~$900 after taxes for their entire 2-week homestand and are on their own for housing beginning tomorrow at 11 AM. We’re told that some players simply cannot afford to spend roughly 80% of their paycheck on the team hotel. According to one player: ‘We don’t know what to do.’”


bmacs02

What’s sad is that I’m earning more from an internship than professional baseball players


TheLizardKing89

People working a minimum wage job earn more than professional baseball players. MLB literally has an exemption from minimum wage laws.


valueape

I had no idea. I sure hope MLB can be shamed into decency


dmiddy

99% of minor leaguers are setting their lives/progress back by 2 years for every 1 year they spend in the minors. 1 year for their time, 1 year because everyone else is learning something else and getting further ahead.


cooterbob

I agree with the point you’re trying to make, that playing minor leagues sets you back permanently, but you’re wrong here. If “wasting a year” is -1, then working is zero. If wasting a year is zero, than working is 1. It’s not 1 —> 2. But still, toiling away in semi-pro sports is always a bad long-term career move.


dmiddy

Someone making 50k per year made like 40k more than the average minor leaguer last year and gained valuable experience. I'd call that greater than zero


cooterbob

Idk how to more eloquently get my point across, but you can't count "not working" as -1 and "working" as 1. That's just not how math/logic works. It's a lost year in terms of both earning and experience, simple as that.


tidbitnippy

A better way to lay it out would be: Gaining a typical year’s wages +1 Gaining a year of applicable work/school experience +1 Not only are the minor leaguers working for almost nothing financially, they’re doubly behind in a single year because they’re also not working on their future employability.


joydivision1234

Yeah, it's weird because they present it as two variables but it's actually one variable stated differently


tidbitnippy

Speaking to that, I think it’s easier to think of it as a single variable that disproportionately affects an outcome (being arbitrarily “ahead” in life). The OP is saying that by adjusting the single input variable, the result ends up (some might say) twice as far behind over a given time period


joydivision1234

So it’d be like 1 = advancing your life 0= doing nothing -1= Minor League baseball ? Seems kinda harsh


ObstructiveAgreement

That's not necessarily true though as they have more chance of working within baseball than the average worker. So they could be building contacts for coaching or scouting work in the future. So they're getting applicable experience every year as well for the industry they're in.


tidbitnippy

The money +1 is also not 100% true because technically the minor leaguers are paid. I was obviously speaking in generalized terms though, as no model would fit all sizes and the average worker might not be making career progress either. So to your point, you could go ahead and call it +1.75 whose line is it anyway points


Rockefor

You made perfect sense and you are correct.


dmiddy

I don't think you're making the point you think you're making. Either way, no point in picking nits


dingusduglas

It can't be 2 years. Others are gaining 1 year of experience while they gain 0. They're not gaining negative one years worth of experience, that doesn't make sense. If someone else starts their regular career at 20, and a former minor leaguer starts their regular career at 30, the minor leaguer isn't facing a 20 year experience gap. At age 40, the difference would be 20 v 10.


IamMcLovin_

You can’t really quantify what chasing after that dream means means though.. I mean sure objectively the accountant (or whatever mid level career you want to choose) is superficially more well off and getting ahead, but really does anyone really love accounting or their regular 9-5 the way we Love Baseball? You can always start another career later in life, but you can’t get drafted to the show as a 45 year old playing on the company softball team.


_IowasVeryOwn

Does anyone really enjoy having to live in their car?


IamMcLovin_

Im sure a lot of the people on this sub would have killed to be able to play in the minors lol. Im not saying that the conditions are not a joke but people put up with worse trying to make their dream a reality


spcy_chkn_sndwch

Lots of people want to be a doctor, but that doesn't mean they should have to live in their car to be a doctor.


AlmostCurvy

With the way interns and residents get paid I'm sure some do.


God_Damnit_Nappa

Speaking of careers where the low level people are taken advantage of...


spcy_chkn_sndwch

Absolutely.


_IowasVeryOwn

I definitely wouldn’t, just like to watch baseball


cooterbob

You're right there is the intangible aspect, but playing Minor League ball until you're 30 is sooooo bad for long-term financial and career prospects that it's hard to defend the decision unless you're a high level prospect.


IamMcLovin_

Seems like a pretty alright way to live your 20’s if you ask me, but yeah I can see where you’re coming from.


bellj1210

If you never make the show; then i almost agree- it is akin to a mall job. As far as total benefits (since they do get lodging and normally a lot of community help); they are going to be on par with someone working a dead end job in retail


3000milestoSpacejam

is it really? If you're talking about playing till your 40 that's a different story. Financially, they're pretty much in the same boat as someone who is still paying off loan debts. And it's not that uncommon to spend your 20s figuring out what you want to do with your life, whether that's being a slacker or just realizing you hate the field you're in. I don't see how it's really any different from those situations. Anyway, they're also building a lot of relevant work experience because there are tons of opportunities to get paid to be some level of baseball instructor for kids, whether that's full-time or part time. (I think they should be paid more but I'm talking about it more from the career angle)


ChicagoModsUseless

Making $20k/year for 10 years then having to find a new career path with likely little to no relevant education and experience is a far cry from finishing school and paying off your debt during your 20s while you will statistically be seeing much higher income and career growth.


ChicagoModsUseless

The lingering issues many minor league players face probably outweigh the 3 years they spent chasing their dreams in front of 200 fans a night.


spcy_chkn_sndwch

> You can’t really quantify what chasing after that dream means means though.. Other people in other career fields are chasing their dreams and making at least minimum wage, so I feel like yes you can quantify it.


MartianRecon

Does their long term career prospects include 7 or 8 figure payouts? Some guy who's 2-3 players deep to the majors isn't just sitting around with their thumb up their ass. One injury and a slump and they're in the big leagues with mlbpa healthcare for life. That right there is worth more than most benefits a player would get. Not to mention any player worth their scratch that played AAA ball can work at a training academy and do quite well for themselves. 2 guys I play with have one and they do quite well for themselves, and they only played minor league ball.


spcy_chkn_sndwch

You're a Dodgers fan. Your team could pay all the MiLB players in baseball a living wage.


MartianRecon

They 100% should. But my point stands. Sacrificing a few years in your 20's to make nothing on the chance you make millions of dollars isn't a bad trade off. Worst that comes of it is you have some awesome stories to tell and something that'll stick out on a resume.


Tombre

There are outliers though. I know a guy who got a $500k signing bonus out of high school. He played in the farm leagues for a few years and made it to triple A before having career ending shoulder surgery. If he didn’t have a gambling problem while playing ball, he would have had a nice goose egg to start his second career with…


JackTwoGuns

I had a friend get a call from a baseball team telling him they wanted to draft him in something like the 20th round and he said don’t. I asked them why and said he didn’t want to live with 8 guys in a studio for 4 years in Arizona for 11,000 a year and a .000001% to get called up. A lot of NCAA guys who have good grades would never even consider it even if drafted


w0nderbrad

I personally know minor leaguers that asked for their release as soon as they got a “real world” job offer. Lot of the college kids aren’t dummies. They can see the writing on the wall. I know guys that thought they were the shit until they played a season and they were like “yep no way I’m ever making the show” and basically play until they can get a real job (if they’re not looking to coach - whole other story)


JackTwoGuns

I know this guy through a pretty prestigious honors minor at my college. He’s looking at a 70k finance job straight out of college which in Atlanta is good money for a college kid. It just doesn’t make sense to do it.


BloodySox

Now that I think about it - if you're considering grad school and wanted to take a couple of gap years after undergrad, there are worse ways to spend that time. At least being former minor league baseball player would give you an easy conversation starter.


AlmostCurvy

I can confirm there are definitely worse ways to spend a couple of gap years


w0nderbrad

Although “professional baseball player” with an affiliated MLB team does open up a lot of eyes when thrown into a resume.


MFoy

If it were me, I'd do it for the experience for a summer and then move on to the real world. It would be a different experience that you won't get anywhere else, and you never know when "minor league baseball player" will help your resume at a job interview down the line. Now if you already have a great job lined up post-graduation, that's different.


[deleted]

Internships being largely unpaid or wildly underpaid is a bigger problem than low level baseball being a low-wage job. It doesn’t mean both aren’t problems but it does mean that you’ve been trained to consider being underpaid to be normal.


c_pike1

True, but I consider the minor leagues to be more analogous to a medical residency than an internship due to the multi year time commitment and poor wage. It's not like a summer internship over in 12 weeks. Honestly I believe when one of those situations gets fixed, the other won't be too far behind but I think both will take a massive societal shift before they happen


TheMoonsMadeofCheese

God damn, I thought at the very least the team covered their hotel and travel costs. When I have to do company travel, I absolutely do not expect to pay for my own hotel or transportation, or at least get refunded for it, and it's not like I have that great of a job. That's pretty despicable.


notanoxycleanrep

You’re off the mark here, they do get the hotels covered on road trips, but are forced to find their own living at “home”. That’s where the 6 guys to a 2 bedroom apartment happens


ClownxBaby69

Sweet, I (barely) make more than a minor league baseball player!


Mycroe

Without addressing pay, since that topic is a lot more divisive and complicated, I don’t understand why more teams aren’t doing what the Astros are; providing free apartments for players. It makes too much sense for teams not to implement it imo.


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ILoveCavorting

Woo! Positive Astros story! Guess it makes sense why they bought the Skeeters. Rent is probably cheaper in Sugarland than Round Rock, lol.


shapu

Plus they furnished each apartment with a TV, a trash can, and a book on Morse Code.


ILoveCavorting

You think we’d try semaphore or something next.


Angus_McFife13

That's for the big leaguers- the AAA guys still have to learn the tried and true systems.


Angelsfan14

Just have the homerun train whistle once for fastball and twice for off speed.


Quesly

I'm thinking that treating minor leaguers like people is going to be the next "moneyball" inefficiency. Good on the Astros for being ahead of the game .


TheSquires

Wait, you think not sleeping in their car will have a positive effect on their development? That's outrageous!


gatemansgc

and the money it would cost them to do so is tiny compared to how much money every team makes.


apulan

They'd rather pay 9 figure contracts to guys who will just fall off a cliff halfway into it


Green_1010

Chris Davis says hello. He fell off the first year of his contract 😀


philocity

Because it costs money


ReservoirGods

Yeah but the ROI of putting guys up in a nice place where they are stable, can maintain a good diet, exercise, and sleep schedule and focus on developing their physical abilities would probably make up for it in the long run. Having home-grown talent saves a lot of money over having to get it from free agency.


KikiFlowers

> It makes too much sense for teams not to implement it imo. It costs money they'd rather spend on their private jets and cocaine.


vinnyv91

Fuck all these owners, you still make cash hand over fist paying them 40-50k a year


SlaminSammons

Seriously. The Dodgers pay nearly 6 times to Trevor Bauer for what it would cost them to pay their low A to Triple A 50k a year. MLB teams could easily make life easier for these dudes but they choose not to.


scottyway

Its worse. They literally lobbied congress to exempt them from minimum wage laws and OT payments. They spent money to avoid giving MiLB players any of it


Proofay

Do you have a source for this? That is fuckin wild


AlpineSummit

The [Save America’s Pastime Act](https://ftw.usatoday.com/2016/06/save-americas-pastime-act-minor-league-minimum-wage-lawsuit-mlb-salaries)


TopChud

thankfully this wasn’t ever passed https://www.congress.gov/bill/114th-congress/house-bill/5580


despideme

That is incorrect. It was included as [page 1,967 of a $1.3 trillion spending bill](https://apnews.com/article/minor-league-baseball-lawsuits-ap-top-news-government-spending-laws-cb183f59e88948e8b9cd49ad07bde807). It is currently the law of the land.


[deleted]

Triple A players do make that much It’s literally not a career path for 99% of guys. It’s a summer gig until you find a career path or get cut; the average age in those low leagues is like 20.


bellj1210

baseball reference has the average age listed right there with minor league stats. Most guys spend a year or two in the minors while they figure things out. If they pop, then great, if not then they either get cut or leave since their offseason job is the better option. If you were selling cars on the side, and made more in 3 months of doing that, it just becomes the logical thing to keep doing.


sakibomb523

Yeah but think about the new art piece the poor owner could acquire and store at a port warehouse!


giraffevomitfacts

It's supply and demand for the jobs. These players will play for nearly free rather than give up their dream of playing major league baseball and the owners know it.


maLeFxcTor

My aunt and uncle used to have Baysox players rent out their basement during the season. My uncle was a manager up in the restaurant at the stadium so he was always willing to help out. It’s been an issue with players not making shit for years. Most guys can’t afford apartments and have to rent rooms or basements, not to mention getting off-season jobs.


BlackCloudDiner143

You mean Rips?


BrandonAK

Rips! Still open?


BlackCloudDiner143

I believe so!


bellj1210

last i looked it was, but the hotel shut down about 5 years ago. The hotel was pretty neglected for a long time.


do_you_know_doug

Definitely still open, and has had good crowds pretty regularly for a few months now.


not_productive1

The single most effective thing a baseball franchise can do to keep its payroll down is develop from within. Teams get SIX full years of team control - 3 at the league minimum - if they bring a guy out of their own system. Even if it's a replacement level guy, you're talking maybe $2 - $4 million on the open market for what would cost you $500k to develop internally. They pay for scouting, facilities, staff, and signing bonuses for these players, with the sole goal of turning as many of them as possible into big-league players. Why on EARTH wouldn't you do everything under the sun to maximize your return on this massive investment of time, energy, and resources? If any given team could increase its production of major-league-ready guys by, say, 5 per year, it would outpace the league. They could start flipping and packaging prospects for superstars, or just build the team from the ground out. Or both. Instead the whole minor league system seems designed to take this massive investment and grind it down until it's worthless. Over what? Christ, buy a building and give them free apartments during the season. The team would own the asset and at the worst, get a tax write-off. Couldn't possibly be more expensive than buying, maintaining, and staffing a whole minor league ballpark just to make sure your players are in the worst possible shape to play in it.


ElvisIsReal

And if done well, some shared living areas will likely build team chemistry and morale.


not_productive1

Most of these kids are college-age-ish. An upscale dorm vibe would probably suit most of them just fine.


ElvisIsReal

Yep. A big shared living room, a big shared kitchen, and private bedrooms. Hell, if the clubs own them, you could even set up some workout equipment or a hitting cage on-site too.


ReservoirGods

If teams are smart about you could even just build in living quarters onto the minor league stadium, then the team doesn't even need to comp them rent.


bellj1210

The Baysox have a 20-30 room hotel right by the ballpark that went under a few years ago that would be perfect for this. Buy it out and remodel, and it is a 5 minute walk (literally by a chick fil a, home depot and sams club, and the ballpark is at the end of the street). So no need for the other stuff, just beef up the ballpark a little for training and a useable kitchen.


bellj1210

each player is an investment. So you put more into your safer investments, and not much into the crazy long shots. The guys taken in the first 2-3 rounds of the draft are not worried about it since they got enough to live pretty well from their signing bonus for several years. Those are the guys that teams are betting will reach the bigs. When you hit the end of the 10th round (150k signing bonus) you are now getting to guys who you are really giving just enough to give 4 years of decent living to prove they belong. You cannot have more than 40 guys on your 40 man roster, aside from the top guys, most only stick for 3-4 years- so a team only needs about half of top 10 rounders to pan out, and every guy with a smaller bonus taken later that makes it is a long shot. Teams actually normally do not think that way, they tend to underpay some top 10 rounds and overpay a few later picks- so really each year they are each giving realistic opportunity to about 12-15 guys- and there are international signings where each team given enough of a bonus to anther 5ish guys to get a reasonable shot. So if you are not one of the 20 guys each year that each team gives a 100k or higher signing bonus to; you are just cheap labor buying time. If you become a star- great, but it is rare enough that pumping more money into that is not a good use of the funds. I still think minor leaguers should draw a better salary- and honestly if they just were not exempt from minimum wage, we would be good. The rest of the players you see in the low minors are normally recent college grads that are spending a gap year or two in order to give their dream a shot.


[deleted]

Nothing like having a crick in your neck every day from sleeping in your car to turn prospects into productive major leaguers


cooljammer00

This Twitter account got that other team food and that other team housing. I guess we're at the point of public shaming to get moves made. Whatever it takes. Minor leaguers aren't allowed to get host families this year because COVID. It's why the Astros provided housing for once, and tried to keep it a secret.


pm_me_cute_sloths_

I mean maybe every team should just cover their housing and pay them something like $65k a year. That’s a decent salary and the team won’t go broke from it. Just imagine the public praise the first team to do this would get. Any minor league free agent would flock there. They’d have a huge competitive advantage because their players are actually properly taken care of and can get proper sleep not in their car. The fact that host families exists is ridiculous on the first place. You aren’t some foreign exchange student. Cover their housing. Don’t ask them to cover it because people in the minors get moved around all the time and it’d be a major pain in the ass to deal with leases like that.


dinoian

How would I go about becoming a host for a minor leaguer next season? I’m moving into a house about 5 miles from a AAA park and have a couple more bedrooms than I actually need.


sktgamerdudejr

idk, but my guess would be to contact the minor league team, as they generally have members on their staff that deal with housing players. I’d look at the minor league teams “contact us” page and call that number and you should be able to eventually get transferred to the right person/department.


mki401

it's usually on the website for the team.


cpander0

I can't speak for baseball but the CHL's (hockey league for 16-21 year olds) billet program is run through each team's site as they know the local needs. I'd imagine baseball does the same.


ReservoirGods

The minor league team in my town will put up posts on their socials a month or so before the season to ask for host families. It's actually not bad if you've got the space for them since their seasons are fairly short and they road trip 50% of the time anyway.


KikiFlowers

> I mean maybe every team should just cover their housing and pay them something like $65k a year. Yeah, but with nobody to be able to push back against the owners, the owners are free to do whatever. Players start to get any ideas of protesting, their jobs are fucked.


Friviliosunicoen

If they all stuck together they would have power.


KikiFlowers

It's difficult for Minor Leaguers to unionize, MLB owners have done everything they can to make sure that won't happen. If some players get antsy and talk of unions, they'll get cut, no big deal. These aren't your Grade A prospects, the ones that are guarantees to make the roster, a lot of these guys are minor league lifers. They can't *afford* to piss off the MLB Owners, otherwise they're out of a job and any chance of making it into the majors is gone. Of course the MLBPA doesn't give two shits, because MiLB is its own organization and they don't want to represent them.


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Shopingkart11

No, it isn't. No only is it not too much but the owners could afford it thousands of times over and still make a profit. Sick of the greed that comes from team owners and even worse are the people that support them. As fans we need to be on the side of the players, or we don't have a sport to watch in the future


teeohdeedee123

The fact that people don't see athletes as workers really bothers me. Wage slavery is wage slavery.


gatemansgc

since the parent comment was [removed], for context to those reading: the guy really thought that giving 65k to minor league players was "too much".


CommiePuddin

Minor league teams are not typically owned by their major league affiliates. Just to be clear.


Runningfan686

Aren't the players still paid from the big league club though? They're drafted by the MLB team, just assigned an MiLB team to play for.


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Shopingkart11

I am going to say your opinion is wrong, because it is. Your opinion is wrong. Anyone who has that same thought, is wrong. Mlb owners generate millions on the labor supplier by both major Leaguers and minor Leaguers. 65k per year is a drop in the bucket compared to that. Yes, minor Leaguers are entitled to the fruits of that labor. And yes, your opinion is wrong


vjr191

You’re touting the line between having a discussion and being disrespectful.


Shopingkart11

Damn right, I have 0 tolerance and 0 respect for this point of view. Not interested in a discussion, interested in action from owners and the union. It's disgusting and beyond shameful


vjr191

All he had was a disagreement about 65k being the number but you’re all fucking highbent on that BEING the number.


Shopingkart11

Yes, I am. That should be the starting point and have yearly increases along with housing.


Rainy_Days7

If you don't want to play for those wages, no one is forcing you to play. If everyone quits, wages will rise


mki401

cry more


vjr191

Lol Internet forum tough guy.


mki401

wow you're touting the line between having a discussion and being disrespectful


joeveralls

You are not on the players side lmao


IffyEggSaladSandwich

Have you ever consider that median income is too low? How about you quit bootlicking, and start thinking?


jubal3

Hard to justify that stance considering at any point these minor leaguers could get called up to the show where their peers make literal millions. The ratio of talent between a guy making 10mil/year in mlb and the minor leaguer making the hypothetical 65k is not even remotely proportional to their talent


nukemiller

Wait, what? Dudes in the minors are there because they aren't talented enough to be pro yet. You have top prospects that maybe fall into that category, but the rest are probably never going to make the show.


jubal3

Yes and my point is they all could, whether or not they will, get called up to the MLB, where big leaguers are paid ~4 million a year on average. That's ~60 times larger than the proposed $65k contracts for minor leaguers from the OP. The average major league player is NOT literally 60 times as talented as the average AAA player for example. The removed comment, I don't know if you saw it or not, was saying that the commenter felt it was unfair to pay minor leaguers so much because so much of the US population lives under the poverty line, making some kind of merit argument.


nukemiller

Minor Leaguers should make enough to live in the city they are forced to play in. They should also be paid per diem every day while on the road. Hotels should also be paid for. This is how every company I work for that has required me to travel, has worked. I hate putting a number on it like 65k, because that isn't what we are really after here.


bellj1210

that is a high salary for 9 months. I was thinking like 30k. If you have a real shot you got a signing bonus already


UnicornMaster27

Lowkey, all these stories are making me feel guilty about low-balling my minor league guys in The show..


ReverendHambone

Just buy a damn apartment building. Players get a free room. Have a cafeteria and a gym. Seems so simple.


AlmostCurvy

Didn't the Astros do that this year?


ReverendHambone

Something close, and good on them. I was more pointing out that it's a feasible long term solution for teams and probably a halfway decent investment too.


MFoy

I can understand why it would be difficult to have an actual cafeteria because that requires workers, and it's hard to employ people for half the weeks of half the year. Otherwise, I agree with you.


bellekid

Meanwhile, the Blue Crabs of the Atlantic League like an hour south are using host families this year. They make even less than Minor Leaguers though.


UnicornMaster27

Idk what’s worse—he fact that a random person on Twitter had to reply to this tweet and ask if it was okay if they stayed with them, since they’re vaccinated—or that the official baysox account is replying to those people and telling them how to contact officials to set up that type of housing-hosting smh


spcy_chkn_sndwch

Yes.


KikiFlowers

Reminder: MiLB players are the **only** minor leaguers to **not** be unionized. And why is that? It's because the players don't want to feel the wrath of the billionaire owners, even more than they have.


downtown3641

I've said it before and I'll say it again: this is not a minor league baseball issue. It's a larger social issue. I know this is a baseball subreddit, but the truth is that everyone should be making a living wage.


shohee

Aye There are comments about how it just makes sense that better salaries would produce better ballplayers and it's true but that logic really applies to most industries. Think about how much better most people would be at their work if they didn't have to worry about if they can afford rent, bills, or even food Minor leaguers making little money is just a symptom to the fact that we've normalized thinking people with certain jobs don't deserve a living wage and it suuuuuuuuucks


downtown3641

Every time this topic comes up on here I wonder if everyone feels the same about all the folks working at the ballpark, or the person driving the team bus, or whomever washes the uniforms.


KiloPapa

I don't know how it is in baseball, but I work in the performing arts, and I wonder if it's the same. Ballplayers, like actors, dancers, etc. are people whose job is something that many people would be happy to do for free. As a result you get a lot of employers thinking you should work for nothing, or a small stipend, when first starting out, because it gives you exposure, and you should think yourself lucky just to do what you do for a living. In your early career you'll be *very* lucky to find a job that pays anywhere close to minimum wage. However, the people you work with who do the ordinary shit -- the company's payroll manager, the janitors, the people who do the laundry, driving the bus, etc. -- are getting a real salary because employers recognize that nobody is going to do that job if it's not made worth their while. Like I said, I have no idea if that's how it is in baseball. But I wouldn't be surprised if the players are treated like their jobs aren't "real", while the support staff are at least treated like normal people and get some kind of reasonable wage.


c10bbersaurus

I dont think ballpark support staff get paid well. Most have other jobs that the gateway stuff is on top of.


KiloPapa

That makes sense. In some theatres it's kind of the same. The house manager, box office manager, concessions manager, etc. are real employees, and the ushers and other staff are either volunteers or people who do it as a side gig just cause they like to get to see the shows for free and be involved in some way.


ClassicMach

Yeah its not so much the support staff but the interns in the front office tend to be from well off families because they can afford to work for free for two years to build their resumes.


Butternades

Out of curiosity what do you do in the arts world? I’m a still a college student in music performance


KiloPapa

I’m a stage manager in mostly musical theatre. Despite having a job that’s less glamorous, we’re on the same union contract as the actors, so we tend to get lumped into the “you should be doing it for the exposure” argument that they do.


Butternades

Cool, I’d love to break into the musical theater world in pit orchestras but it’s such a tight community that it’s hard to find a way into it without knowing someone


KiloPapa

Yeah I’m not really deep into that side of it, but that’s my understanding: you have a friend, they ask you to sub for them on a show, the music director and contractor get to know you, and people start calling you. I don’t know how you make that first connection, maybe playing with someone on some other kind of gig. Good luck with it!


Butternades

Thanks! The biggest difficulty is that I’m a percussionist and there’s only at most two per show. My market is also not the biggest to explore for live theater but who knows, when I’m out of school I could always find myself somewhere new


KiloPapa

I randomly met a young guy when I was on tour who was getting ready to move to NYC and be a percussionist. He had the same concerns. A few years went by and suddenly I was seeing his name in Playbills all over Broadway. I don't know how he did it, but it happens! There are also small shows and benefit concerts where they might have trouble booking their first/second/third choices and need to cast a wider net. Of course then we're straying into the territory that this thread is about, where you have to do something for free or nearly free, to meet the people who can give you a paying job.


Semper454

Yup. It has become normal, acceptable, and even Good! for a highly profitable business to compensate as many employees as possible like total ass. I think we have old Sam Walton to thank for this!


fakecatfish

> we've normalized thinking people with certain jobs don't deserve a living wage and it suuuuuuuuucks Just disgusting and dehumanizing and standard practice.


Butternades

Stress really can affect your performance in any situation


spcy_chkn_sndwch

This is true but baseball is its own unique hell with its combinations of legal exemptions and physical expectations from its employees


bex199

baseball is unique in the fact that it’s baseball - it’s not at all unique in exploitation. there are people that work shittier, more physically demanding jobs for less money and more hours. which is not at ALL to diminish the fact that minor leaguers are legitimately exploited. it’s just one shit in a toilet of shit.


spcy_chkn_sndwch

1) MLB has a minimum wage exemption. 2) MiLB players travel with the team so really they are on the clock for weeks at a time 3) MiLB players are expected to work/workout in the off season when they aren't being paid at all.


bex199

tipped jobs also have a minimum wage exemption. the travel and unpaid work requirements also exist for people in many industries. all of this is true for many labor trafficked people. the situation is legit fucked for minor leaguers, but it really is a symptom of the greater american value of labor exploitation


ClassicMach

A lot of jobs have a minimum wage exemption that's basically "if you complain about it we'll fire you and we know damn well you can't afford to litigate it and the NLRB won't give a shit."


spcy_chkn_sndwch

Tipped jobs have a separate minimum wage, which varies by state if its the federal limit or not. MiLB has no minimum wage period. And they don't get tips.


TypicalWhiteGiant

I genuinely do not understand how some team hasn’t figured out the massive competitive advantage that decent minor league living conditions could give you. Not all of these guys are bonus babies and not every guy who contributes in the majors is either. Imagine how good guys could be if they were able to focus on the game year round. Absurd.


aresef

These are professional baseball players and the league would rather go to Washington and get a law that says they can treat them like shit than treat them like the professionals they are.


avmp629

Just pitch some tents on the field, problem solved Seriously though, pay your minor leaguers


pm_me_cute_sloths_

This is not fucking ok. How fucking hard is it to pay your minor leaguers just a normal fucking salary? You don’t even have to pay them a major league salary, just pay them something like $65k and you’ll immediately make them a lot happier and contribute to their development and get a competitive advantage. Minor league free agents are going to want to flock to you if you give them a liveable wage. People will praise you and you’ll probably get a lot more fans. You’ll potentially win a lot more as a result. I mean hell, pay them that AND cover their lodging for the entire season. It’s not that hard to be a decent human. Tons and tons of less successful companies pay more total employees $65k a year than the amount of minor leaguers in a farm system. It’s utterly ridiculous. I promise you’ll still be in the green at the end of the year. If you won’t be, you’ve really fucked up and shouldn’t be running a baseball team.


MageBoySA

The AHL pays a minimum of 50k. They have a shorter season, less travel, and a less profitable game. Baseball can afford to pay these players.


gatemansgc

happy cake day!


MageBoySA

Thanks! Didn't even realize it when I posted.


Worthyness

They're living on roughly $10 an hour if they make 900 every 2 weeks. They could literally make more money working at a McDonalds in California


Mycroe

Not that I disagree with you, but prospects are given large signing bonuses for a reason. Taking their yearly salary doesn’t take into account the entire environment of how prospects are compensated. The whole concept of “it’s only X million a year” really doesn’t look at the tens of millions spent on prospects via signing bonuses in the draft, international pool, etc. Players also only play a fraction of the year. Again, not that I necessarily disagree with you, I just think it’s a more nuanced issue. Maybe my view on this will change if I’m fortunate enough to have an opportunity to play for an MLB org. Who knows.


CrustyM

Lots of them aren't given significant signing bonuses though, especially late round drafts. Whether you get a chance to play for an org or not shouldn't be the yardstick for considering stories like this as anything but deplorable and god knows this isn't the first time we've heard about stuff like this either. Teams exploit the dream of playing in the show to fill the minors with dudes living at below minimum wage to create opportunities for prospects they care about. They don't call em farm teams for nothing, it's exploitative at its core


Master-of-Coin

So do you think teachers should make less money because they dont work a full year? Signing bonuses go to very few.


spcy_chkn_sndwch

95% of MiLB players are never even going to play a full season in the majors.


Guymcpersonman

Good thing we passed the Save America's Pastime Act a few years ago to solidify the idea that minor leaguers can't get paid minimum wage.


EarthWarping

They make below the poverty line, which seems insane.


penguinopph

But if they don't like it, they can simply find another job... (Big ol' /s, except there's people in this very thread saying that sincerely)


OUTFOXEM

"Learn to code" all over again.


poser4life

The owner of the Baysox (Ken Young) is on the MiLB board of trustees. Nothing will change because this is what they want https://www.milb.com/about/board-of-trustees


residualtortoise

What if taking care of your minor leaguers and investing a little more into their health and wellness actually produces greater returns in terms of player development?


spcy_chkn_sndwch

It does. But as long as all the owners collude to suppress MiLB spending no one is at a disadvantage.


bex199

for real - fuck the owners. eat the owners. the amount of money these orgs generate is more than enough to pay their minor leaguers rent, cost of living, plus benefits and a living wage. these orgs could be doing all of that for the minor league guys and all of the stadium staff while investing money into their communities. this stuff makes me really struggle to enjoy baseball.


that_tall_fella

I lived in Bowie ... there's no reason they can't put them up in the Comfort Inn, just down the street from the ballpark. None at all. Fuck Major League owners for not paying Minor Leaguers a livable wage.


IHasGreatGrammar

Hot take. When you treat these guys poorly in the minors they remember it when you approach them for a contract extension. The Royals and Astros got this right- treat your guys well and they will be loyal and stay with you


MAFIAxMaverick

Wow this is crazy. I play in an adult baseball league in the area and one of the guys in our leagues works grounds crew for the Baysox. So we've played a few games there. Really nice field. Old stadium for sure. It's a crying shame this is continuing to happen in Minor League Baseball. The fix is so fucking simple, and yet the greed continues.


ArmoredPeaches

Eat the Owners


nerfrosa

This might be too hard to implement, but what if an MLB team would have to pay players money in relation to their MLB teams paycheck. So if a team was paying their roster 150M, maybe they have to split 1.5M in bonuses at every level.


high_changeup

Manfred bout to put the hit out on whoever runs this account.


Semper454

It’s just mind-boggling how often baseball shoots itself in the foot.


spcy_chkn_sndwch

This is the same team that used to make the players lift weights in the parking lot during spring training. Anyone that thinks the money being "saved" by tanking for four years is going to be spent on the team in 2025 is a sucker. Remember, the Orioles got the Nationals TV money for over a decade.


MoustacheMark

Eat the rich. Fuck the owners.


markusalkemus66

I don't hold it against Kyler Murray at all for choosing NFL over MLB. On one hand, you make 11k a year, sleep out of a car, and maybe sniff the big leagues in 3-4 years if you tough it out. On the other hand, you go first overall in the NFL draft, get a few million right off the bat, and be a starting key position player in year one. I know which one I'd choose.


Semper454

Kyler’s A’s contract was for $4.7 million. It’s not the top guys with problems. If you’re drafted top 4 or 5 rounds, you’re gonna make a little change. It’s the other 95% of an organization we’re talking about.


ThePopcornTape

End the antitrust exemption and watch this issue solve itself.


ThatsSoTaguchi

This is straight up shameful. The greedy taking all they can and keeping as much as they can. These guys deserve to be paid an appropriate living wage. Fucking disgraceful.


garvierloon

Lol what a fucking joke organization.


Common-Ad5446

It’s a problem in all minor league systems,not just the Orioles


c10bbersaurus

Are the Orioles owners cheaping out and stripping their asset for every penny to line their personal pockets?


WRXW

The billionaire owners could simply pay what they pay your team's bad 4th outfielder for this to never be a problem at any level of the minor leagues. This should seriously be a black mark against all of major league baseball.


Natekn

I know this is an organizational issue of greed and cost cutting but the MLB union needs to step up. There should be a percentage on MLB contracts that go directly to the minor leaguers and their salary/health benefits. Why the fuck does Bryce Harper need 400million dollars when there’s a guy in AA getting paid $2,000 a month before he has to spend half of it on cost of living. At the very least organizations need to provide free or extremely affordable housing for its minor league players that have to travel for only a few of months. The MLB union needs to do it’s part and supplement or renegotiate the wages. My cousin went through that shit for three years after he took Oakland’s 45K signing bonus only to be jerked around A & AA conceding his life for $1500 a month.


aresef

But these guys are generally not members of the MLBPA.


Mattcub23917

Why would the answer be taking money for the MLB players and not forcing the MLB Owners to step up?