Wow, this list is certainly something... Honestly might be worse than the fans list.


This is the only list where the fan list isn't significantly worse, and this list is actually significantly worse imo.


How is Dylan Cease not on this list?


I know Zac Gallen wouldn't be on this list but seriously this dude gets NO LOVE from the media Maybe I'm biased because he's a hometown kid


no you are not biased he is extremely underrated because he is on the diamondbacks


I love the recognition he gets here, but honestly there's no one on this list I'd put him ahead of


I remember I was telling a friend how good gallen already was and that he was even better against us, only for that to be a game where he gave up like 6 and was pulled in the 3rd


I'd take Gallen over Urias all day.


I don't disagree, but idk why people don't see urias as a top flight pitcher. He's been so good for awhile now.


Urias is a top flight pitcher and anyone who says otherwise is wrong. But just from a pure player vs. player standpoint, Gallen feels like the better option. Wish Urias pitched deeper into games but I know that it is often by design to keep him under six innings in many of his starts. When Gallen goes out, you know you're usually getting 6-7 strong innings.


Is put him ahead of Rodon and Urías, but I don’t think he’d be in the top 10 if I were picking honestly


Rodon has Gallen on skill but definitely not on potential durability.


Rodon had 12k/9 w a 2.88 era. Gallen 9.4k/9 2.55. Gonna be interesting to see how Yankee stadium treats him poorly hr/9.


You can blame it on "the media" but the MLB Network top 10 lists are done by MLB Now. They're an analytics based show that relies on a computer model to do these lists for the most part. Zac Gallen wasnt very good in 2021 and his K rates arent great so its easy to explain why a computer model would not have him in the top 10.


After this season he will get a lot of recognition! Top 5 in NL CY Young I'm predicting.


He's great but a list with degrom at 9 is not gonna have gallen


I mean I don’t think he’s top 10 but I agree. He needs one more season like last year


I am a massive Yankees homer, but in no world is Rodon the 3rd best pitcher in baseball. He's not even the best pitcher on the staff.


Rodon was third in all of baseball in pitcher fWAR 2021-2022. He was second in 2022, with 6.2 (Cole had 3.3). Both ZiPS and Steamer project him to finish third in pitcher WAR in 2023 (Cole is in 4th for both projections despite his merely good 2022).


MLB Network's lists are intentionally controversial. This list is so bad that there's no way anybody who came up with this genuinely believes it.


Okay damn I thought I was out of touch seeing this list. Turns out I am actually in touch.


Corbin & Verlander at the top showed promise. Then I saw Rodon third & reverted back to my low expectations.


what's wrong with rodon? he led the majors in FIP and SO/9


Nothing is wrong with Rodon. Honestly, I am quite fond of him. But I think it's extremely farfetched to believe he is a top 3 SP. 8 year vet, two time all star, has only pitched over 150ip twice in his career (career high was last year at like 176ip). I can't put such an unestablished player ahead of guys like Scherzer & Degrom. I mean, even Sandy is a more reliable workhorse.


Serious Shane mclanahan erasure


I'm used to it


Honestly 5th for Sandy seems like an understatement. Top 3 for sure


All four panelists had him top 3 and two of them had him at 1


how did he end up 5th?


Ranked choice voting?


Having a reigning Cy Young not be in the top 3 is insane to me.


I’m just happy they’ve used the blue background for the Marlins logo


I'm taking him #1 all day. Dude is un-fucking-real.


Dude just won the cy young and they ranked him 5th?


I figured they were really valuing historical performance, but Rodon at 3…confused what the true methodology was


all these computer models favor strikeout pitchers ​ Rodon 12K/9, Sandy 8K/9


then why isn't cease on the list?


Cease should be on the list 100%


Maybe because he led the league in walks ? FWIW I think Cease should be in wheelers place


Because this list sucks


Probably doesn’t like his high walk rate


3rd most fWAR among pitchers the last 2 years


Enraged Fans/9 + Comments/article clicked.


what's wrong with Rodon? Led the majors in FIP and SO/9


Fans had 2 Jays in the Top 10 and zero here. Not sure how I'm supposed to feel 😵‍💫


I think Gausman being on the first list was a little crazy, but it's absurd to not have Manoah anywhere on this list. Dude had almost no bad starts last year.


IMO, even after last year I believe that Gausman is the better pitcher. He just got catastrophically unlucky, and was so damn good he still walked away with a 3.35 ERA in 174 innings. 10.6 K/9, 1.4 BB/9, and an fWAR of 5.7! But his BABIP was a monstrous .363. For some extra context on that BABIP, among the 470 pitchers with 30 or more IP last year: - Gausman had the 16th highest BABIP - Nobody with a higher BABIP had an ERA under 4.22 (Rowan Wick) - The only pitchers with BABIPs above .330 and a lower ERA were the relievers Bryan Abreu, Trevor Stephan, Jose Alvarado, Andrew Bellatti, and Lucas Luetge Manoah is and was no doubt awesome. 2.24 ERA in 196 innings! 4.1 fWAR! But his rate numbers just aren't as shiny, and luck was with him. 8.24 K/9, 2.33 BB/9, and a 2.44 BABIP (65th lowest out of those 470 pitchers with 30 or more IP).


The Shredder can't decide if recently or long term track record matters more.


I looked everywhere and can’t find the sexy mustache man Dylan Cease? Who was T2 in the Cy Young voting.


You mean the guy who can’t even get on an all star team? Why would he be up there?


Too busy playing disc golf


I love that he plays. Big fan of the guy after watching him on the celeb vid.


Couldn't get into Canada, either.


Every player this applies to should be given endless shit, and I say that as a Cardinals fan


I'm assuming the model hates how many walks he gives up.


You mean disc golfer Dylan Cease?


I thought Miles Mikolas was the sexy moustache man


This is indeed a list of names.


How many more teams need to be Framberized before the talking heads give him his due?


The Framberizing will continue until morale improves.


The Framberglering will consume all and inflict self pity and doubt upon the creators of said list.


These frickin morons are gonna get totally Framebered.


This list is Framberasure.


I think we’ve been Framboozled.


Framber. The Framburglar. Framber the Filth. The Great Frambino. Framberizing setting off Framber-Alerts while Framboozling opponents leaving them in Frambles.


Didn’t expect Burnes to be number 1. I didn’t watch the reveal but did they say anything about why? Big shock for me is Alcantara at 5. That just seems nuts in my opinion.


They talked about over the last 3 years he’s basically the best. But the rest of the list doesn’t reflect the last 3 years. If it did you’d have Woodruff and Nola and Bieber on


Degrom at nine is absolutely the most insane thing I've ever seen


Does he get freakier at night???


You made me start my day with a hearty chuckle. Thanks.


deGrom is good but you might only get a handful of games from him before something gives way and he’s out for a month or the rest of the season. The dude cannot stay healthy, and as good as he is he feels kind of unreliable these days. I hope to be proven wrong though, when he’s at his best he’s untouchable


I know he’s basically pitched half his games the last 2 seasons but I don’t see how you can bump him all the way down to 9 for that when he’s the best there is when he is on the mound (or at least damn near to it). If he gets hurt again then I’d start to agree that he should start dropping, but I’d still have him top 3.


Yeah, he basically just missed a year, with it split over two seasons. And before that injury was pitching the best season baseball has ever seen. Then when he came back, he was dominant and really all of his bad games were towards the end of the season when he was pushing his pitch count up. Then there is the As game where he just had no control and they didn't whiff on a single fastball.


> Yeah, he basically just missed a year, with it split over two seasons. The extra layer of concern is that the year before that is the pandemic season, so he's going into his age 35 season having not pitched a three digit number of innings since his age 31 season. Even if he's "healthy" you have to wonder what a responsible "ramp up" in workload should look like at his age. Even healthy, it feels like a bad idea to ask for more than 130-150 innings out of an older pitcher who hasn't faced anywhere near that workload in a long time. Even in young guys whose arms are still made out of rubber, you don't ask them to go from 11-15 starts/season to 30 starts/season in a single step.


I don't hold 2020 against anyone, because nobody pitched lots of innings but I do agree that it seems responsible to keep him to that 130-150 range. He'd never do it, but having him pitch 5 innings most of the season stretching out to 6 would give him a full season and 150+ innings to ramp up to a proper season in 2024 when the Rangers are better positioned for their WS aspirations. You'd rather hold him back a bit this year to avoid an injury.


Well, if Mike Trout 2017-2020 played a total of 180 games, would he be a top 3 batter? I'm torn myself. It's a hard argument either way. If DeGrom pitches like himself for 32 starts, though, the argument would be forever over. Hope he does it this year.


I feel like his injury prone label is a little recency biased. Not trying to say he’s an Ironman, but prior to that last 2 seasons his track record was really solid Year - Innings Pitched - Rank 2020 - 68.0 (shortened season) - 21st 2019 - 204.0 - 10th 2018 - 217.0 - 2nd 2017 - 201.1 - 10th


He hasn’t been *healthy* but this is an exaggeration. He had a single injury last season, it was just a long one.


Both lists came out horrendous


Um this is pretty bad


I'm somehow still upset we traded Wheeler to the Mets for Beltran. AND gave them $4 million on top hahaha


At least you didn’t trade alcantara and Gallen for a wife beater


Well we let Wheeler walk to our division rival, even though he wanted to stay, because we didn’t think he was worth the contract he was getting, so there’s that.


I'm with you. I cringe every time I see his name listed on something positive.


Burnes at #1 and Rodon at #3 are choices.


Cole has officially moved to underrated. /s


Gerrit Cole. Cole toy. Already underrated.


Was gonna say lol did they forget that Gerrit Cole is a person?


[Gerrit Cole trying to get to the bottom of this controversy](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBDrSuKvfAM#t=0m45s)


That’s identical to the ZiPS fWAR projection this year


The comments on this are so weird. Everyone just asserting it’s awful without substantiating it or offering more than minor critiques lol


They’re exactly 1st and 3rd in pitching fWAR over the last 2 seasons lol


I don't even like fWAR for pitchers that much but the people falling over themselves unable to understand why those two would be ranked highly by anyone is really amusing to me.


This sub tends to have bizarre takes that aren’t grounded in reality


Burnes leads all pitchers in fWAR since 2020 and had a great season last year. He deserves to be at the top. Rodon tho 😬


Rodon led the league in FIP last year and was top 5 in FIP for SP in 2021 (though he wasn’t qualified in 2021) Idk exactly where he should land but he’s one of the best in the game right now


But he rarely got out of the 5th inning. His pitch counts are often super high


His workload was basically the same as Gausman and Cease, two guys that this sub is weirdly bewildered about not being on the list. If there's anything he should get dinged for, it should be the relative lack of innings he's pitched overall in his career, not his per start workload.


Alcantara at 5 is a joke


Sandy at 5 is laughable.


I mean Sandy is getting absolutely hosed here. Yikes.


But Framber just dominated…nvm.


Shhhh! The more people don't know about Framber, the more they get Framboozled in the playoffs.


Sandy at 5 seems really low, and not just because I'm a Marlins fan. ​ Of these top 5 pitchers, Sandy ranks: 2022: 2nd in ERA+, 1st in IP, 1st in bWAR, 3rd in fWR 21-22: 4th in ERA+, 1st in IP (by 65.1 innings), 1st in bWAR, 3rd in fWAR And he's the youngest of the 5 pitchers.


So you're telling me he gets the outs , and has been getting more of them than any pitcher in this stretch astounding


What did Aaron Nola do to deserve being left off of both the fan and network list? All he's done is make every start for 5 years with very good baseline stats and elite peripherals.


He looked bad in the World Series and recency bias is a motherfucker.


Honestly I think it's more that he's a workhorse and his peripherals, especially FIP, have been better than his traditional stats. (I wonder why a pitcher on the Phillies could possibly have better stats when you ignore defense)


The only pitcher I’d rather have over Alcantara is Ohtani and that’s only because he’s a unique case Purely for arms there’s nobody on this list that I’d want to be a Padre more than Sandy


I think you could make a case for Degrom as well. I know he has injury concerns but I would still feel comfortable putting him at 1


I don’t think Rodon is even the best pitcher on his own staff, let alone top 3 in the league


He absolutely isn't, I would take Cole over half of this top 10 and I hate the yankees


I don't really disagree with the *choices* on this list, it's the *order* that's very out of whack. Particularly when you get to the top 5 or 6.


Verlander having a top 2 season at age 40? Who does MLB Network think he is? Jamie Moyer?


Holy hell, i forgot verlander was on the mets now lmao It feels so strange


As a long time brewer fan, it’s weird to see a brewers pitcher at the top of any list. But if any picther we’ve ever had deserves it, it’s Burnes. Woodruff is probably in the 11-20 range.


Alek Manoah and his 2.24 ERA over 31 starts last year beg to differ.


I think they just disregarded anyone who hasn't pitched 5 complete seasons. Guys like McClanahan, Cease, Framber, Manoah all left out. Seems like they picked track record over current ability in some cases.


man what lmao


I was sure Castillo would’ve been on there lol


Is Gerrit Cole ass or something 🤔


Brandon Woodruff will finish a top ten pitcher this year. Save this comment


RemindMe! 8 months


Gerrit Cole is out of the top 10? Kermit deals.


Devers was put in charge of this list




Aaron Nola is 4th in fWAR the last 2 seasons and Dylan Cease is 8th… also if since JV is there and it’s only based on 2022 you should probably be putting Strider,Bieber and Nola on there


Strider barely pitched over 100 innings. It’s fine he’s not on.


But what a 130 innings those were


Also theres quite a few more guys I'd put over Strider if we're talking purely 2022


Sandy and Fried are both top 3 or 4. Gausman and Manoah are top 10 somewhere.




Uhh Verlander is second…


We can start with 1


This makes the fan one look good


So we had the fans list is the list from fans who also did crack before the vote?


This list seems pretty atrocious, but it helped me realize how lowkey insane starting pitching is right now. I hadn’t realized that until looking at this list. Not listed are Cole, Nola, Javier/Valdez, Manoah, Gallen, the list goes on and on. I know I’m missing some incredible pitchers


White sox went though the trouble of developing rodon into an ace and let him walk. Thanks Jerry for being cheap. I sleep better at night knowing you have more money stuffed under your mattress


Look. I get I may be biased. But no Astros seems bizarre to me. Javier just tossed 6 no hit innings in the World Series to start a no hitter, after he did 7 against the Yankees. Framber just set the all time single season consecutive start record. Jacob deGrom has run into the injury bug lately Scherzos was injured half of last season and blew it in the playoffs and against the Braves. Meanwhile Alcantara who was easily the best pitcher in the league last year is #5?!? Even if neither Framber or Javier deserve a spot, the rest of this list is still bizarre to me for the most part.


> Framber just set the all time single season consecutive start record. Didn't he also get the quality start record last year too?


That’s likely what OP meant. Not sure what a consecutive start record would be like for pitchers but I doubt it’s held by Framber lol


DeGrom has it by like a couple games I believe. It's (unsurprisingly) not that much higher than the single-season one iirc.


Yeah deGrom and Bob Gibson both have the total record (26) and Valdez has the single-season record (25)


I mean, Verlander is technically on here as an Astro..


It's OK, they will learn themselves a lesson; just wait.


What the fuck lol


we all finally put our differences aside to ask what in the fuck is this list? whichever intern made this should be sternly spoken to


Honestly not mad at burnes being number 1. He has been incredible the last 3 years.


Yes, let’s put the guy who just won the NL Cy Young award in the very middle of the list


Sandy at 5 is absolutely RIDICULOUS. It felt like almost every game he went out there and pitched 8 innings of shut out ball. Easily pumping 100 with insane movement in the 8th


As much as I love him there's really not much of an argument to put Julio over Cease, Gallen, Bieber etc... Heck, even Kershaw got more fWAR than him with better peripherals


I think Luis Castillo should be on this list. I think he will be a Cy Young candidate this year. His stuff is nasty!


The league is 'bout to get Framboozled for this.




Degrom, 9? ;(


Feel like this is almost being overlooked. Most of the question marks around this list seem not directed at the best pitcher in baseball (when he's healthy) being number 9 lol


Cristian Javier and Framber Valdez? Valdez finished 3rd or 4th in cy young voting and Javier no-hit the Yankees and Phillies this season… it is indeed a list of names


Of all the possible lists this is certainly one of them


Aaron Nola shoves


Manoah? Gausman?


Wtf is this list? Lmao McClanahan in shambles.


This list is so dumb it is a thing of beauty


I guess fuck Luis Castillo


The Framber disrespect


No Astro in the list when you had probably the best rotation in the MLB last year seems bad


Alex Manoah?


Too many numbers suggesting his ERA was fluke.


Then Gausman should be on this list since his underlying numbers show he was better than his ERA last season.


No framber is a joke😂


No Framber?


How the fuck is Sandy Alcantara only at number 5? How is Rodon number 3? Who the fuck voted on this list?


He was 8th in FIP, Rodon was 1st and lead all pitchers in fwar. Not saying I agree with the rankings but there is a justifiable reason to have them in those spots. edit: Rodon was 2nd in fwar, not first. He was .1 war below Nola.


Framber Valdez should be somewhere in there


Degrom at 9? Bonkers


Framber Valdez not on the list?


I feel like these are the right names in the entirely incorrect order.


I’m a Mets fan and deGrom hurt me but him at 9 makes this list a joke


Nestor Cortez had great numbers. Hopefully he can stay healthy this season.


This list is littered with guys who can barely get through 5 innings a start.


This list is solely designed to piss off deGrom. Wheeler in front of him seems like intentional violence.


Pffff. No Alek Manoah? What a joke.


Dylan Cease? Dylan? Dylan? Beuhler? Absolutely no love for a guy that took second in Cy Young voting.


Framber Valdez erasure - maybe we’re one or two seasons early but that dude looked this past season and definitely postseason like he’s just starting to hit his stride, if he keeps it up he’s gonna be one of the best in the game


I assume they’re factoring in deGroms health. Healthy deGrom is the best and it’s not even close.


Damn. Verlander on the Tom Brady stay young forever diet?


How bout that big guy allstar from Toronto not ranked here shame shame


The fact that neither Cease nor Manoah are on the list is wild


Wow. This is a list.


Burnes at #1 is 100% deserved. Which is why this is probably his last year on the Brewers.


I actually like this list quite a bit


Hitters can hit, but this post is why the Padres aren’t winning the Series..


As a Brewer fan, I’m flattered. I can’t say I agree though.


List seems somewhat inaccurate


Is this a rough draft?


There is absolutely NO FUCKING WAY that the best starting pitcher in MLB right now is the dad from Psych.


I guess top doesn't necessarily mean best so maybe I'm just misunderstanding the list and it isn't objectively ridiculous.


This list is horse shit


So where's is the "real" list. Obvious, y all lists are subjective, but is there one that the majority rallies around