T O P
Genisys_Arc

Wow, this list is certainly something... Honestly might be worse than the fans list.


Panguin9

This is the only list where the fan list isn't significantly worse, and this list is actually significantly worse imo.


twentysomethinger

How is Dylan Cease not on this list?


amatom27

I know Zac Gallen wouldn't be on this list but seriously this dude gets NO LOVE from the media Maybe I'm biased because he's a hometown kid


Jet_Jones_11

no you are not biased he is extremely underrated because he is on the diamondbacks


Panguin9

I love the recognition he gets here, but honestly there's no one on this list I'd put him ahead of


eggs-dee123

I remember I was telling a friend how good gallen already was and that he was even better against us, only for that to be a game where he gave up like 6 and was pulled in the 3rd


TheGamecock

I'd take Gallen over Urias all day.


LakersFan15

I don't disagree, but idk why people don't see urias as a top flight pitcher. He's been so good for awhile now.


TheGamecock

Urias is a top flight pitcher and anyone who says otherwise is wrong. But just from a pure player vs. player standpoint, Gallen feels like the better option. Wish Urias pitched deeper into games but I know that it is often by design to keep him under six innings in many of his starts. When Gallen goes out, you know you're usually getting 6-7 strong innings.


RiskyPhoenix

Is put him ahead of Rodon and Urías, but I don’t think he’d be in the top 10 if I were picking honestly


scottydg

Rodon has Gallen on skill but definitely not on potential durability.


elephantcock0410

Rodon had 12k/9 w a 2.88 era. Gallen 9.4k/9 2.55. Gonna be interesting to see how Yankee stadium treats him poorly hr/9.


RoyTarpleysGhost

You can blame it on "the media" but the MLB Network top 10 lists are done by MLB Now. They're an analytics based show that relies on a computer model to do these lists for the most part. Zac Gallen wasnt very good in 2021 and his K rates arent great so its easy to explain why a computer model would not have him in the top 10.


Evabunski

After this season he will get a lot of recognition! Top 5 in NL CY Young I'm predicting.


pugwalker

He's great but a list with degrom at 9 is not gonna have gallen


CubonesDeadMom

I mean I don’t think he’s top 10 but I agree. He needs one more season like last year


kanst

I am a massive Yankees homer, but in no world is Rodon the 3rd best pitcher in baseball. He's not even the best pitcher on the staff.


SpOoKyghostah

Rodon was third in all of baseball in pitcher fWAR 2021-2022. He was second in 2022, with 6.2 (Cole had 3.3). Both ZiPS and Steamer project him to finish third in pitcher WAR in 2023 (Cole is in 4th for both projections despite his merely good 2022).


NotClayMerritt

MLB Network's lists are intentionally controversial. This list is so bad that there's no way anybody who came up with this genuinely believes it.


falloutranger

Okay damn I thought I was out of touch seeing this list. Turns out I am actually in touch.


PineStateFoliage

Corbin & Verlander at the top showed promise. Then I saw Rodon third & reverted back to my low expectations.


shilo_lafleur

what's wrong with rodon? he led the majors in FIP and SO/9


PineStateFoliage

Nothing is wrong with Rodon. Honestly, I am quite fond of him. But I think it's extremely farfetched to believe he is a top 3 SP. 8 year vet, two time all star, has only pitched over 150ip twice in his career (career high was last year at like 176ip). I can't put such an unestablished player ahead of guys like Scherzer & Degrom. I mean, even Sandy is a more reliable workhorse.


hollyw00d8604

Serious Shane mclanahan erasure


Th3Unkn0wnn

I'm used to it


Mr_Evil_Dr_Porkchop

Honestly 5th for Sandy seems like an understatement. Top 3 for sure


Luis_Severino

All four panelists had him top 3 and two of them had him at 1


AllanNavarro

how did he end up 5th?


karatemanchan37

Ranked choice voting?


Heelincal

Having a reigning Cy Young not be in the top 3 is insane to me.


DRF19

I’m just happy they’ve used the blue background for the Marlins logo


norcaltobos

I'm taking him #1 all day. Dude is un-fucking-real.


theodorebrozevelt

Dude just won the cy young and they ranked him 5th?


Enleigh

I figured they were really valuing historical performance, but Rodon at 3…confused what the true methodology was


RoyTarpleysGhost

all these computer models favor strikeout pitchers ​ Rodon 12K/9, Sandy 8K/9


SlimJim8511

then why isn't cease on the list?


Genetalia69

Cease should be on the list 100%


darksideofdagoon

Maybe because he led the league in walks ? FWIW I think Cease should be in wheelers place


romanticynicist

Because this list sucks


DepressingFries

Probably doesn’t like his high walk rate


ATLBravosFan13

3rd most fWAR among pitchers the last 2 years


Dozzi92

Enraged Fans/9 + Comments/article clicked.


shilo_lafleur

what's wrong with Rodon? Led the majors in FIP and SO/9


DefendingAssholes

Fans had 2 Jays in the Top 10 and zero here. Not sure how I'm supposed to feel 😵‍💫


R1vster

I think Gausman being on the first list was a little crazy, but it's absurd to not have Manoah anywhere on this list. Dude had almost no bad starts last year.


ElCaz

IMO, even after last year I believe that Gausman is the better pitcher. He just got catastrophically unlucky, and was so damn good he still walked away with a 3.35 ERA in 174 innings. 10.6 K/9, 1.4 BB/9, and an fWAR of 5.7! But his BABIP was a monstrous .363. For some extra context on that BABIP, among the 470 pitchers with 30 or more IP last year: - Gausman had the 16th highest BABIP - Nobody with a higher BABIP had an ERA under 4.22 (Rowan Wick) - The only pitchers with BABIPs above .330 and a lower ERA were the relievers Bryan Abreu, Trevor Stephan, Jose Alvarado, Andrew Bellatti, and Lucas Luetge Manoah is and was no doubt awesome. 2.24 ERA in 196 innings! 4.1 fWAR! But his rate numbers just aren't as shiny, and luck was with him. 8.24 K/9, 2.33 BB/9, and a 2.44 BABIP (65th lowest out of those 470 pitchers with 30 or more IP).


ahr3410

The Shredder can't decide if recently or long term track record matters more.


twistedroyale

I looked everywhere and can’t find the sexy mustache man Dylan Cease? Who was T2 in the Cy Young voting.


AbsurdLemon

You mean the guy who can’t even get on an all star team? Why would he be up there?


New_Grass_Revival

Too busy playing disc golf


StrikersRed

I love that he plays. Big fan of the guy after watching him on the celeb vid.


ilikemyteasweet

Couldn't get into Canada, either.


FasterDoudle

Every player this applies to should be given endless shit, and I say that as a Cardinals fan


IAmNotOnRedditAtWork

I'm assuming the model hates how many walks he gives up.


sharkterritory

You mean disc golfer Dylan Cease?


XoRn18

I thought Miles Mikolas was the sexy moustache man


BoredAtWork_91

This is indeed a list of names.


dauberminer

How many more teams need to be Framberized before the talking heads give him his due?


JinFuu

The Framberizing will continue until morale improves.


Austintheweird94

The Framberglering will consume all and inflict self pity and doubt upon the creators of said list.


TheNuglord

These frickin morons are gonna get totally Framebered.


contactfive

This list is Framberasure.


CanadianSteele

I think we’ve been Framboozled.


LSUguyHTX

Framber. The Framburglar. Framber the Filth. The Great Frambino. Framberizing setting off Framber-Alerts while Framboozling opponents leaving them in Frambles.


FlashMac31

Didn’t expect Burnes to be number 1. I didn’t watch the reveal but did they say anything about why? Big shock for me is Alcantara at 5. That just seems nuts in my opinion.


brandon_the_bald

They talked about over the last 3 years he’s basically the best. But the rest of the list doesn’t reflect the last 3 years. If it did you’d have Woodruff and Nola and Bieber on


textunes

Degrom at nine is absolutely the most insane thing I've ever seen


KurtVonnebeergut

Does he get freakier at night???


ELBORI82

You made me start my day with a hearty chuckle. Thanks.


NicoRosbergBurner

deGrom is good but you might only get a handful of games from him before something gives way and he’s out for a month or the rest of the season. The dude cannot stay healthy, and as good as he is he feels kind of unreliable these days. I hope to be proven wrong though, when he’s at his best he’s untouchable


Previous-Clock-6960

I know he’s basically pitched half his games the last 2 seasons but I don’t see how you can bump him all the way down to 9 for that when he’s the best there is when he is on the mound (or at least damn near to it). If he gets hurt again then I’d start to agree that he should start dropping, but I’d still have him top 3.


akaghi

Yeah, he basically just missed a year, with it split over two seasons. And before that injury was pitching the best season baseball has ever seen. Then when he came back, he was dominant and really all of his bad games were towards the end of the season when he was pushing his pitch count up. Then there is the As game where he just had no control and they didn't whiff on a single fastball.


BillW87

> Yeah, he basically just missed a year, with it split over two seasons. The extra layer of concern is that the year before that is the pandemic season, so he's going into his age 35 season having not pitched a three digit number of innings since his age 31 season. Even if he's "healthy" you have to wonder what a responsible "ramp up" in workload should look like at his age. Even healthy, it feels like a bad idea to ask for more than 130-150 innings out of an older pitcher who hasn't faced anywhere near that workload in a long time. Even in young guys whose arms are still made out of rubber, you don't ask them to go from 11-15 starts/season to 30 starts/season in a single step.


akaghi

I don't hold 2020 against anyone, because nobody pitched lots of innings but I do agree that it seems responsible to keep him to that 130-150 range. He'd never do it, but having him pitch 5 innings most of the season stretching out to 6 would give him a full season and 150+ innings to ramp up to a proper season in 2024 when the Rangers are better positioned for their WS aspirations. You'd rather hold him back a bit this year to avoid an injury.


elephantcock0410

Well, if Mike Trout 2017-2020 played a total of 180 games, would he be a top 3 batter? I'm torn myself. It's a hard argument either way. If DeGrom pitches like himself for 32 starts, though, the argument would be forever over. Hope he does it this year.


Yacht-Club-

I feel like his injury prone label is a little recency biased. Not trying to say he’s an Ironman, but prior to that last 2 seasons his track record was really solid Year - Innings Pitched - Rank 2020 - 68.0 (shortened season) - 21st 2019 - 204.0 - 10th 2018 - 217.0 - 2nd 2017 - 201.1 - 10th


Drummallumin

He hasn’t been *healthy* but this is an exaggeration. He had a single injury last season, it was just a long one.


YaBoiWhit

Both lists came out horrendous


Spiritual-Band-9781

Um this is pretty bad


helloyesnoyesnoyesno

I'm somehow still upset we traded Wheeler to the Mets for Beltran. AND gave them $4 million on top hahaha


jstewart25

At least you didn’t trade alcantara and Gallen for a wife beater


Spiritual-Band-9781

Well we let Wheeler walk to our division rival, even though he wanted to stay, because we didn’t think he was worth the contract he was getting, so there’s that.


NaughtSleeping

I'm with you. I cringe every time I see his name listed on something positive.


NeurosciGuy15

Burnes at #1 and Rodon at #3 are choices.


well_damm

Cole has officially moved to underrated. /s


DJ_LeMahieu

Gerrit Cole. Cole toy. Already underrated.


jtweezy

Was gonna say lol did they forget that Gerrit Cole is a person?


Hey_Biomed_Guy

[Gerrit Cole trying to get to the bottom of this controversy](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBDrSuKvfAM#t=0m45s)


MattO2000

That’s identical to the ZiPS fWAR projection this year


esperadok

The comments on this are so weird. Everyone just asserting it’s awful without substantiating it or offering more than minor critiques lol


ATLBravosFan13

They’re exactly 1st and 3rd in pitching fWAR over the last 2 seasons lol


dankeykanng

I don't even like fWAR for pitchers that much but the people falling over themselves unable to understand why those two would be ranked highly by anyone is really amusing to me.


ATLBravosFan13

This sub tends to have bizarre takes that aren’t grounded in reality


tomstoms

Burnes leads all pitchers in fWAR since 2020 and had a great season last year. He deserves to be at the top. Rodon tho 😬


cocoatractor

Rodon led the league in FIP last year and was top 5 in FIP for SP in 2021 (though he wasn’t qualified in 2021) Idk exactly where he should land but he’s one of the best in the game right now


CubonesDeadMom

But he rarely got out of the 5th inning. His pitch counts are often super high


dankeykanng

His workload was basically the same as Gausman and Cease, two guys that this sub is weirdly bewildered about not being on the list. If there's anything he should get dinged for, it should be the relative lack of innings he's pitched overall in his career, not his per start workload.


Woodsy1313

Alcantara at 5 is a joke


rollo2masi

Sandy at 5 is laughable.


trsansone

I mean Sandy is getting absolutely hosed here. Yikes.


TooHOU91

But Framber just dominated…nvm.


ChiefWematanye

Shhhh! The more people don't know about Framber, the more they get Framboozled in the playoffs.


Sirliftalot35

Sandy at 5 seems really low, and not just because I'm a Marlins fan. ​ Of these top 5 pitchers, Sandy ranks: 2022: 2nd in ERA+, 1st in IP, 1st in bWAR, 3rd in fWR 21-22: 4th in ERA+, 1st in IP (by 65.1 innings), 1st in bWAR, 3rd in fWAR And he's the youngest of the 5 pitchers.


gingeringo

So you're telling me he gets the outs , and has been getting more of them than any pitcher in this stretch astounding


Panguin9

What did Aaron Nola do to deserve being left off of both the fan and network list? All he's done is make every start for 5 years with very good baseline stats and elite peripherals.


Several_Baseball_678

He looked bad in the World Series and recency bias is a motherfucker.


Panguin9

Honestly I think it's more that he's a workhorse and his peripherals, especially FIP, have been better than his traditional stats. (I wonder why a pitcher on the Phillies could possibly have better stats when you ignore defense)


cBlackout

The only pitcher I’d rather have over Alcantara is Ohtani and that’s only because he’s a unique case Purely for arms there’s nobody on this list that I’d want to be a Padre more than Sandy


wallstreet_vagabond2

I think you could make a case for Degrom as well. I know he has injury concerns but I would still feel comfortable putting him at 1


omgitsduaner

I don’t think Rodon is even the best pitcher on his own staff, let alone top 3 in the league


hollyw00d8604

He absolutely isn't, I would take Cole over half of this top 10 and I hate the yankees


sofastsomaybe

I don't really disagree with the *choices* on this list, it's the *order* that's very out of whack. Particularly when you get to the top 5 or 6.


coitusboy96

Verlander having a top 2 season at age 40? Who does MLB Network think he is? Jamie Moyer?


Shasan23

Holy hell, i forgot verlander was on the mets now lmao It feels so strange


Uranus_Hz

As a long time brewer fan, it’s weird to see a brewers pitcher at the top of any list. But if any picther we’ve ever had deserves it, it’s Burnes. Woodruff is probably in the 11-20 range.


RickyDaytonaJr

Alek Manoah and his 2.24 ERA over 31 starts last year beg to differ.


ChiefWematanye

I think they just disregarded anyone who hasn't pitched 5 complete seasons. Guys like McClanahan, Cease, Framber, Manoah all left out. Seems like they picked track record over current ability in some cases.


TheBiggestJig

man what lmao


donutfox

I was sure Castillo would’ve been on there lol


mansontaco

Is Gerrit Cole ass or something 🤔


two_sleep

Brandon Woodruff will finish a top ten pitcher this year. Save this comment


UluruMonster

RemindMe! 8 months


bwma

Gerrit Cole is out of the top 10? Kermit deals.


Silist

Devers was put in charge of this list


TheFrontierzman

#Framboozled!


brandon_the_bald

Aaron Nola is 4th in fWAR the last 2 seasons and Dylan Cease is 8th… also if since JV is there and it’s only based on 2022 you should probably be putting Strider,Bieber and Nola on there


Doc_JC

Strider barely pitched over 100 innings. It’s fine he’s not on.


The_New_New

But what a 130 innings those were


YaBoiWhit

Also theres quite a few more guys I'd put over Strider if we're talking purely 2022


Petey0Wheatstraw

Sandy and Fried are both top 3 or 4. Gausman and Manoah are top 10 somewhere.


[deleted]

[удалено]


Reidzyt

Uhh Verlander is second…


WheatonsGonnaScore

We can start with 1


Lebigmacca

This makes the fan one look good


Thorlolita

So we had the fans list is the list from fans who also did crack before the vote?


DavidTheSlouch89

This list seems pretty atrocious, but it helped me realize how lowkey insane starting pitching is right now. I hadn’t realized that until looking at this list. Not listed are Cole, Nola, Javier/Valdez, Manoah, Gallen, the list goes on and on. I know I’m missing some incredible pitchers


FunkySaint

White sox went though the trouble of developing rodon into an ace and let him walk. Thanks Jerry for being cheap. I sleep better at night knowing you have more money stuffed under your mattress


bordomsdeadly

Look. I get I may be biased. But no Astros seems bizarre to me. Javier just tossed 6 no hit innings in the World Series to start a no hitter, after he did 7 against the Yankees. Framber just set the all time single season consecutive start record. Jacob deGrom has run into the injury bug lately Scherzos was injured half of last season and blew it in the playoffs and against the Braves. Meanwhile Alcantara who was easily the best pitcher in the league last year is #5?!? Even if neither Framber or Javier deserve a spot, the rest of this list is still bizarre to me for the most part.


DetroitTabaxiFan

> Framber just set the all time single season consecutive start record. Didn't he also get the quality start record last year too?


hubagruben

That’s likely what OP meant. Not sure what a consecutive start record would be like for pitchers but I doubt it’s held by Framber lol


KoriJenkins

DeGrom has it by like a couple games I believe. It's (unsurprisingly) not that much higher than the single-season one iirc.


hubagruben

Yeah deGrom and Bob Gibson both have the total record (26) and Valdez has the single-season record (25)


CountAurelian

I mean, Verlander is technically on here as an Astro..


shahtavacko

It's OK, they will learn themselves a lesson; just wait.


NoRosesXVX

What the fuck lol


NiceSockBro

we all finally put our differences aside to ask what in the fuck is this list? whichever intern made this should be sternly spoken to


UhhhOhAnd

Honestly not mad at burnes being number 1. He has been incredible the last 3 years.


RunFlorestRun

Yes, let’s put the guy who just won the NL Cy Young award in the very middle of the list


gabrielg232

Sandy at 5 is absolutely RIDICULOUS. It felt like almost every game he went out there and pitched 8 innings of shut out ball. Easily pumping 100 with insane movement in the 8th


SRG_0203

As much as I love him there's really not much of an argument to put Julio over Cease, Gallen, Bieber etc... Heck, even Kershaw got more fWAR than him with better peripherals


mremonx420

I think Luis Castillo should be on this list. I think he will be a Cy Young candidate this year. His stuff is nasty!


chesschad

The league is 'bout to get Framboozled for this.


BuildNuyTheUrbanGuy

Seriously.


Thorntonx13

Degrom, 9? ;(


keytop19

Feel like this is almost being overlooked. Most of the question marks around this list seem not directed at the best pitcher in baseball (when he's healthy) being number 9 lol


Spiritual_Ad1084

Cristian Javier and Framber Valdez? Valdez finished 3rd or 4th in cy young voting and Javier no-hit the Yankees and Phillies this season… it is indeed a list of names


Reidzyt

Of all the possible lists this is certainly one of them


drivingsince18

Aaron Nola shoves


Hype-man02

Manoah? Gausman?


RaysFTW

Wtf is this list? Lmao McClanahan in shambles.


careaboutit

This list is so dumb it is a thing of beauty


MarinersDreams

I guess fuck Luis Castillo


conker1264

The Framber disrespect


gingeringo

No Astro in the list when you had probably the best rotation in the MLB last year seems bad


DronedOrclul

Alex Manoah?


chesschad

Too many numbers suggesting his ERA was fluke.


PokePersona

Then Gausman should be on this list since his underlying numbers show he was better than his ERA last season.


bubrubTx

No framber is a joke😂


Randygarrett44

No Framber?


sankyx

How the fuck is Sandy Alcantara only at number 5? How is Rodon number 3? Who the fuck voted on this list?


[deleted]

He was 8th in FIP, Rodon was 1st and lead all pitchers in fwar. Not saying I agree with the rankings but there is a justifiable reason to have them in those spots. edit: Rodon was 2nd in fwar, not first. He was .1 war below Nola.


PoolShark1819

Framber Valdez should be somewhere in there


HappyMarshmellos

Degrom at 9? Bonkers


Important-Bee-9246

Framber Valdez not on the list?


Bambam60

I feel like these are the right names in the entirely incorrect order.


TruthSayerFu

I’m a Mets fan and deGrom hurt me but him at 9 makes this list a joke


Significant_Ad_1345

Nestor Cortez had great numbers. Hopefully he can stay healthy this season.


Regit_Jo

This list is littered with guys who can barely get through 5 innings a start.


HotpieTargaryen

This list is solely designed to piss off deGrom. Wheeler in front of him seems like intentional violence.


superjodz

Pffff. No Alek Manoah? What a joke.


cmacfarland64

Dylan Cease? Dylan? Dylan? Beuhler? Absolutely no love for a guy that took second in Cy Young voting.


NicoRosbergBurner

Framber Valdez erasure - maybe we’re one or two seasons early but that dude looked this past season and definitely postseason like he’s just starting to hit his stride, if he keeps it up he’s gonna be one of the best in the game


mmmmmmmmm29

I assume they’re factoring in deGroms health. Healthy deGrom is the best and it’s not even close.


Kulraven

Damn. Verlander on the Tom Brady stay young forever diet?


Far_Out_6and_2

How bout that big guy allstar from Toronto not ranked here shame shame


I3arusu

The fact that neither Cease nor Manoah are on the list is wild


TrashGamer_

Wow. This is a list.


itsmb12

Burnes at #1 is 100% deserved. Which is why this is probably his last year on the Brewers.


LordOfHorns

I actually like this list quite a bit


shaboogawa

Hitters can hit, but this post is why the Padres aren’t winning the Series..


mattyshaman234

As a Brewer fan, I’m flattered. I can’t say I agree though.


tossaway69420lol

List seems somewhat inaccurate


eddiedef

Is this a rough draft?


GeorgieWashington

There is absolutely NO FUCKING WAY that the best starting pitcher in MLB right now is the dad from Psych.


kylechu

I guess top doesn't necessarily mean best so maybe I'm just misunderstanding the list and it isn't objectively ridiculous.


ChairmanReagan

This list is horse shit


mrpickem1

So where's is the "real" list. Obvious, y all lists are subjective, but is there one that the majority rallies around