T O P

Enclaves of Azerbaijan occupied by Armenia : 1 Yukhari Askipara 8.6 km2/ 2 Barxudarlı 10,1 km²/ 3 Karki 19 km2. Total (37.7km2) 4 Artsvashen (40 km2) enclave of armenia controlled by Azerbaijan.

Enclaves of Azerbaijan occupied by Armenia : 1 Yukhari Askipara 8.6 km2/ 2 Barxudarlı 10,1 km²/ 3 Karki 19 km2. Total (37.7km2) 4 Artsvashen (40 km2) enclave of armenia controlled by Azerbaijan.

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GreenShen

So will we control those 2 roads ?


Tellur_2020

in short, yes The most strategically located enclave is Karki Armenians do not want to return him because he gives us control over important roads


zerealdawg

Guys our information “warfare” sucks ballz. Can someone share Gazakh borderline villages (non enclave-yuxari eskipara) which is under occupation so these guys can shut up with the 2.5 km positions in syunik


Tellur_2020

https://www.reddit.com/r/azerbaijan/comments/nhsu2q/there\_are\_territories\_in\_azerbaijan\_directly/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3


zerealdawg

Thing is it’s not clear there. I’m sure half of Armenians know about this but the Glendale warriors need to see it more clearly Edit: smth like this https://mobile.twitter.com/301_AD/status/1395403148433534981


CrazedZombie

https://www.reddit.com/r/azerbaijan/comments/m3id4w/oc_map_of_the_exclaves_of_qazakh/gqpm95l/ As I explained last time this got brought up, this continently ignores that Azerbaijan occupies territory as well, it comes down to the fact that the Soviet era borders there suck and thus the actual frontline doesn't match the de-jure borders. Would be harder for the people there if it did.


Tellur_2020

Source [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karki,\_Azerbaijan](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karki,_Azerbaijan) [https://az.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yuxar%C4%B1\_%C6%8Fskipara](https://az.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yuxar%C4%B1_%C6%8Fskipara) [https://az.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barxudarl%C4%B1](https://az.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barxudarl%C4%B1) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artsvashen


Full_Friendship_8769

Sooo... let’s switch? I mean on paper, not by moving people. (the 2.3 km^2 that are left could be used to exchange for a part of those villages you guys talked about, while the rest of them would be returned to Az). What do you guys think?


DarthhWaderr

As a Turk, I don't find the land switch a just solution. Famous enclaves of USSR-era always cause more conflicts like Tajikistan-Kyrgyzstan. I think both Azerbaijan and Armenia should renounce their sovereignty over these enclaves and adjust the borders depending on the size of those enclaves but adjustments should be made in the land connected with the mainland. Roads were built disregarding enclaves since it was all USSR back then. It wouldn't be nice that a small Azeri territory would cockblock Armenians from using the road.


Full_Friendship_8769

That’s what I was talking about. Switch them in paper (since they are de facto already switched) and adjust the remaining few km^2


DarthhWaderr

Oh yeah it definitely makes sense. It could also be the beginning of normalization of relations between both countries like [Turkey-Iran did](https://np.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/comments/l20j9h/during_the_reign_of_ataturk_turkey_joined_the/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share).


lehorselessman

this is an urban legend. turkey had connection with nakchivan since the kars treaty in 1921. a small territory was given to iran, and the area where small agri mount is located was taken to prevent the kurdish rebels crossing the border. (see agri rebellion)


DarthhWaderr

I researched about it and you were right, thanks for the explanation. As it is mentioned in [this article:](https://www.researchgate.net/publication/343051700_Turkiye_-_Iran_Sinir_Meseleleri_1913-1939) > Bu dönemde İran- Türkiye arasında bir diğer kriz, Mayıs 1926’da Yusuf Taşo ve çetesinin İran sınırı ötesinde Beyazıd köylerinde yağma faaliyetleri yapıp Ağrı yaylalarına sığınması ile gelişen “Ağrı isyanları” sürecidir. Türkiye bu isyana İran’ın destek olduğunu belirtmiştir.80 Bu isyanın hazırlıkları Hoybun ve Taşnak örgütlerinin ittifakıyla 1927’den itibaren yapılmıştır. Sarınay, İran’ın Şeyh Said İsyanından itibaren İran Azerbaycan’ındaki Türkler ile Türkiye’nin irtibatından endişe duyduğunu ve bu endişe sebebiyle bölgedeki Kürtçülük faaliyetlerini yönlendirdiğini, Türkiye’ye karşı Kürt gruplarla müttefik olma yoluna gittiğini belirtir. Ağrı İsyanı sırasındaki İran desteği de İran’ın bu süreçteki tavrını göstermiştir. Ağrı İsyanına katılanlar İran’a firar etmiş, bu isyanın liderlerinden olan İhsan Nuri’ye İran ordusunda görev verilmiştir.81 İran- Türkiye arasındaki bu sorunlu süreç 1930’lu yıllarda İran-Irak arasında sınır sorunlarının Milletler Cemiyeti’nde müzakere edilmeye başlamıştır. Türkiye bu müzakere sürecini kendi güvenliğini korumak için takip etmiştir.82 1932 senesinde İran-Türkiye ilişkileri düzelme ve yakınlaşma eğilimine girmiştir. İsyancıların kolaylıkla İran’a kaçabilmesi ve sorunun tekrar etmemesi için 5 Kasım 1932’de Türk-İran Sınır Hattı’nın Tayini ve Uzlaşma-Adli Tesviye ve Hakemlik anlaşmaları imzalanmıştır.83 Bu anlaşmanın beşinci maddesinde “iki ülke birbirlerinin sınırları içerisinde birbirleri aleyhine oluşacak her türlü faaliyeti engelleyecektir.” İbaresine yer verilmiştir.84 Bu anlaşma ile Küçük Ağrı Dağı’nın Türkiye sınırlarında olduğu kabul edilmiş, İran ise 1878’den itibaren taraflar arasında ihtilaf sebebi Kotor’u topraklarına katmıştır. Bu anlaşmaya göre taraflar sınır bölgelerindeki kabile ve aşiretlerin sınırın diğer tarafına geçmelerini teşvik etmeyecektir. İran veya Türkiye isyancı gruplara karşı askeri müdahalede bulunurken eğer bunlar sınırlar kapalı olmasına rağmen sınırları geçmeyi başarırsa, diğer taraf bu isyancıları takibe devam edecektir. 1932 anlaşması ile sınırlar konusundaki ihtilafın çözümü İran- Türkiye ilişkilerinin bir yumuşama sürecine girmesini sağlamıştır. 85


Lt_486

Switching territories requires Peace Agreement. Peace Agreement requires both sides to recognize territorial integrity of each other, as a legal basis for the land swap. Armenia does not recognize territorial integrity of Azerbaijan by claiming DQ. You want the land swap to have control over the road from one part of Armenia to another, just as Azerbaijan wants to have control over road to Nakhchevan. Basically, for good things to happen Armenians have to be willing to give something to get something, but Armenians want to get something without giving something in return because giving something is "giving an inch of Armenian land".


Full_Friendship_8769

You’re overthinking this. It’s just enclave switch, not a full demarcation.


Lt_486

Then it is not a switch.


Full_Friendship_8769

call it however you like, I guess.


Lt_486

I mean it is not going to happen


Full_Friendship_8769

You’re probably right :/


Lt_486

Swapping lands is very sensitive trade that requires a lot more trust than trading corn and chicken. I hope you realize the depth of absurdity of DQ conflict, it was not just Azerbaijan who needs roads from Armenia, but Armenia needs roads from Azerbaijan too.


Tellur_2020

For example The area of ​​the corridor, 24 meters wide and 40 kilometers long, is only 0.96 km2. 4-lane road 14 meters a The 6 lane road is about 22 meters wide.