Briefly about the objectivity of the r/europe subreddit
By - DastyMe
I love how they always ignore that there is only one mosque left in Armenia. I wonder what happened to all the others when the Ottoman Empire was ruling that region.
I actually looked it up once (though briefly, so my knowledge is quite small). And most of them were destroyed by Soviets in 50s and one was demolished by Armenians in 90s
(according to wikipedia)
To be honest it wouldn't surprise me. But I doubt that the Armenian SSR had zero say in what was happening within that region.
Yet, there are lot more churches in Azerbaijan despite being part of USSR. Somehow Icherisheher also survived USSR rule while remaining parts of Erivan Fortress was totally razed to the ground.
Holy fuck, the amount of upvotes and not a single comment saying the church is four (4) years old built for the military, and place it was built in had no sizable Armenian presence for the last good 200 years..
This sub calls all the 100-200 years old mosques destroyed in balkans justified because it was built by aggressors btw. Lmao look at the retards crying over 3 year old church on stolen land. LETS NUKE BARBARIAN TURKS REEE.
Yeah, although I'm not sure if they all really called it justified, only the Serbs did. Everyone else condemned taking down all the mosques, i think that only Serbs, russians and other Yugoslavs tried to justify that.
Azeri barbarians destroy ancient Armenian propaganda tool built in 2017. In that report, BBC also found that Azerbaijani gravestones were destroyed in the occupied areas, but I guess that wasn’t significant enough to be mentioned by OP.
I have to say I’m super disappointed with how Hikmat handled the BBC reporter’s question, though. The destruction of a church just by itself is already bad optics no matter what, you’re making it worse by giving a shitty justification when there’s a sound explanation right there.
that church was so insignificant that the poor guy didn't even understand what are they talking about. So made something up on the spot
His explanation on Twitter was quite good, he also linked the interview where they asked him the question.
They simp so badly for Christian Caucasians but despise Muslim ones lol
this is the summary of r/europe
What objectivity are you talking about, I have talked with around 10 people and all of them were “poor armenians barbarian azeris” mood.
I wrote maybe 10 pages long sentences but couldnt explain them a single shit.
And Idk from where everybody came with Safarov shit to blame Azerbaijan but main topic is church.
I never wrote anything on the internet until the resent war. I started talking with armenians or with people on their side about the conflict and gave up 4 months later. The amount mental gymnastics and stubbornness is too much for me to handle. You're basically talking against a wall and wasting your time when discussing anything with them
Yes you are right, promised myself that I wont do it again. I regret it now.
It’s how they are and they know it themselves: https://youtu.be/hpa3B56mG4U
I still remember when there was an article about Ganja bombings that trended, and the most upvoted comment that received a ton of awards went something like “IDK what’s happening but Armenian Genocide happened”. Can you imagine news about Israel building settlements in the West Bank with the most upvoted comment being “IDK what’s happening but 6 million Jews were killed in the Holocaust”? Unreal.
r/europe is biggest retarded and racist community in whole reddit.
It is funny, how they don't mention that Armenians were the ones who destroyed every building of that region lol
Wasn't expecting to see so called Armen*an genocide in the comments since the event isn't even about Turkey, but yeah. They managed to make a comment about Turkey and rain awards on that comment even. It's just stunning to see how people can forget what countries like France and Belgium have done in the past(not even once). Then all those same medlar faced people who happen to never have done a single research about history can comment faster than The Flash himself about some claims of a shithole country. Calling for Armenia once more from here: Open up your archives; If you think your claims are for the best, prove them. If you don't carry a piece of shit for a brain, do some research, find out more Turks were murdered mercilessly by Armenians, open up an image of Enver Pasha, drink çay, smile and enjoy life. Good night.
I mean, armos always use christianity as a selling point in their stories to appeal average christian westerner who hasn't even heard about the conflict. They have always been trying to portray this a religious conflict to get some holy points.
"Guys, look, we are also christians, look at our cross and churches so cool, so you gonna support us, right?" -Them, probably
Gotta love the holy stone of armenia.
Adds+ 100 faith points when built with it and spawns ancient churches.
Batının kendi yaptıklarını unutup sonra da biz medeniyiz diye gezip bize barbar soykirimci demesi ? Hocali katliamini bilen varmidir aralarında hiç sanmıyorum ama ermeni soykırımı falan dedin mi her boku bilirler bazen harbiden de sanki dünyanın bize garezi var gibi
D-dostum! Kendine gel! Batı yaptıysa suç değildir(!)
I understand that Armenia may have used the existence of this church for another war, but the church should not have been destroyed nonetheless.
Armenia will find another reason to justify a war when Russia orders it to, why make yourself look bad by destroying stuff, even if they were brand new?
This does not help the peace process either. I know it's like damned if you do, damned if you don't, but that's the difficulty of the trap Russia has set up for both of you guys. There's only very narrow path out of it, and it's very hard to walk that path.
Not sure about you, but a 3 year old shiny new church built, among the wide spread ruins of former Azerbaijani homes in a city where no Armenian lived, for the occupant soldiers that were actively trying to prevent the residents of those homes from coming back is a simple icon of colonialism for me.
I would build a museum next to that church where I would exhibit that colonialism and how the religion, including that church, had been used for warfare and murder. Demolishing it only erases the traces of that warfare strategy.
This church built in 2017 in Jebrail without Azerbaijan permission. (where not even 1 Armenians live there before the occupation)
I would put a giant lock on that church, fence it, and on a billboard next to it, would write exactly what you wrote in multiple languages.
Armenia is in the wrong at every point of this conflict and the west still portrays it as if both sides are the equal. And since the second war they often show armenians as the victim. Our government is paying a lot of money to advertise Azerbaijan and bring good light on to the country and fails pathetically.
What I'm trying to say is that it doesn't matter what we do, they will never be on our side. The whole purpose of this church was to armenify the area. They officially claim that it is only a "buffer zone", but still advertise tourism there and print historical monuments such as the khudafarin Bridge on their money.
With that being said, I'm actually supportive of the destruction of any monument that was built after the occupation. It doesn't matter what Azerbaijan does, they will always cherry pick the bad stuff to vilify us. Even if Azerbaijan was to give the remaining part of Karabakh autonomy, armenians would still use the first attempt to invade Azerbaijan.
The West recognizes the territorial integrity of Azerbaijan. No Western country sides with Armenia on an official national level. Do not conflate what people on Reddit or elsewhere say with what the official position is.
Since this conflict is practically unknown in the West, yes a lot of pro-Russia and anti-Turkey people may fault you because it suits their political agenda and they do not know better. But this does not mean too much. Do not blow this out of proportion, although I recognize that it probably is hurtful to hear all this.
A lot of people in Europe think that Georgia started the war with Russia, and do not like us because we are in their way to cheap and easy gas from Russia. What are we supposed to do, hate them all?
Also, those new Armenian constructions or old things are not going to determine who gets the land, or who is the aggressor. You're reading too much into it. These are just baits that cause the ethnic hatred from both sides. Even if they build one billion churches on the land is not going to influence the borders, so why make the conversation about that? The conversation should be about peace and economic development.
Very well put.
> The West recognizes the territorial integrity of Azerbaijan.
So is the EU ready to sign an association agreement with us the same way it did with Georgia? In the one with Georgia they explicitly recognise Abkhazia and Tskhinvali regions as parts of Georgia. Are they gonna sign an agreement with us in which they recognise Khankendi, Khojaly, Asgaran, Khojavend and Sarsang as parts of Azerbaijan? If no, then you can see how we're in a much more complicated and nuanced position as opposed to Georgia.
> A lot of people in Europe think that Georgia started the war with Russia <...> What are we supposed to do, hate them all?
Well, you clearly don't, since you made one such person your President, LOL.
> those new Armenian constructions or old things are not going to determine who gets the land
They are used by them in negotiations and in case of the Kudaveng monastery, they've succeeded.
>So is the EU ready to sign an association agreement with us the same way it did with Georgia?
Absolutely it would. Not a single UN member officially disputes that Khankendi, Khojaly, Asgaran, Khojavend and Sarsang are Azerbaijan, in case of Georgia - Russia and its puppets dispute the occupied regions as "indepdent countries". So, yes, the EU would absolutely sign with that stipulation.
>Well, you clearly don't, since you made one such person your President, LOL.
Our oligarch bought her the office, and there's suspicion she might be connected to Russia. Her position does not reflect the position of most Georgians, or changes the historical facts.
>They are used by them in negotiations and in case of the Kudaveng monastery, they've succeeded.
No normal negotiation is going to allow a land transfer to Armenia because of a 2017 church. I don't understand this caution.
> Absolutely it would. Not a single UN member officially disputes that Khankendi, Khojaly, Asgaran, Khojavend and Sarsang are Azerbaijan, in case of Georgia - Russia and its puppets dispute the occupied regions as "indepdent countries". So, yes, the EU would absolutely sign with that stipulation.
You clearly haven't been following the discussion around EU-Azerbaijan association agreement.
> No normal negotiation is going to allow a land transfer to Armenia because of a 2017 church. I don't understand this caution.
Maybe not today. But if we kept it, in a hundred years they'd say smth like, oh look, there's a century old church there, so this lands belongs to us.
> You clearly haven't been following the discussion around EU-Azerbaijan association agreement.
Do you mind sharing the official position of the EU where they demanded the cessation of the land?
>Maybe not today. But if we kept it, in a hundred years they'd say smth like, oh look, there's a century old church there, so this lands belongs to us.
In that case, should Georgia be destroying mosques? Just document how this church came about and that should inform the future generations what really happened.
> Do you mind sharing the official position of the EU where they demanded the cessation of the land?
Read about the talks and statements of the sides about the talks. EU has never explicitly recognised the territories of former NKAO as a part of Azerbaijan. They only did that for what they call the occupied territories, by which they mean only the occupied territories surrounding the former NKAO. In fact you can see in pretty much every official statement by the EU that former NKAO is referred to as "disputed region". They don't call Abkhazia or Tskhinvali that way because for them it's not disputed, it's occupied.
> In that case, should Georgia be destroying mosques? Just document how this church came about and that should inform the future generations what really happened.
If Muslims start claiming Georgian territories and go to war with you over it and occupy even more of your territories and then you gain these territories back, I would totally understand you destroying mosques that were built recently during the occupation in the areas where Georgian Christians were an absolute majority and I'd have no objections about it. So, the answer is no. Georgia shouldn't be destroying mosques, because Georgia isn't put in the same situation as we are.
> The West recognizes the territorial integrity of Azerbaijan.
Territorial integrity and sovereignty over territory are not the same thing. West recognizes one does not mean it recognizes the other. West can say: yes, this is territory of Georgia, but no Georgian soldier should be allowed to enter it. West, East, North and South all play political games to their own benefit. We prefer West, since their rules are coming with bunch of money as a carrot. Russia has no carrots, just bunch of sticks.
>West can say: yes, this is territory of Georgia, but no Georgian soldier should be allowed to enter it.
Yes, that's why they are called occupied territories. The European Court of Human Rights recently legally reaffirmed the occupation and said that Russia is responsible for everything that happens on the territories.
>West, East, North and South all play political games to their own benefit.
Correct. So should Azerbaijan. As far as I can see, your national interest is a unified Caucasus, removal of the smothering influence of Russia, Iran and even Turkey, and maintaining a lasting peace. The game needs to be played towards that national interest.
I am wondering why do you think it should not be destroyed.
I will assume you are a Christian and value the religious significance of any church. But this building was built by soldiers for soldiers. So this religious monument was very recently enforced on that land, therefore it is justified to be destroyed.
Analogously think about this. Somebody walks up to Tbilisi occupies a part of it and builds fortifications and a mosque (for the sake of argument assume no civilians are harmed ). So after the Georgian government reclaims that part of Tbilisi back, they demolish everything built there. So are you expected to respect the mosque for its religious significance? I think not.
But we have many mosques in Georgia in Adjara, Samtskhe-Javakheti and elsewhere which were built by the occupying Ottoman empire. I do not support them being demolished at all. On the contrary, I want them to be conserved and used for tourism. If you visit Tbilisi, a lot of cultural sites survived from the times Tbilisi was under multiple Muslim empires.
So, it has nothing to do with my Christianity. I would say the same exact thing about a mosque. Do you like that there are practically no mosques left in Armenia?
Notice we are talking about a religious building, regardless its age, not about some statue of a warmonger. That would be a different story.
welp, for me buildings have only historic, aesthetic or practical value. This particular has none of those, just spiritual.
just for the note, I wouldn't justify it if it was used by civilians for cultural purposes, even if it was for only 3 years. But it is literally in the middle of nowhere so I see it as a part of the military complex.
Then, they should build a museum next to it to demonstrate that military complex. Not destroy it.
ya abi bu adamlar karabağda yüzbinden fazla insanın yaşadığı ağdam şehrini yakıp yıkmadımı? bu ikiyüzlülük nedir? önce aynada kendilerine baksınlar
kaldıki kaç ermeni yaşıyorda kilise dikiyorsunuz oralara? büyük ihtimalle azerbaycan topraklarını işgal altında tutan terörist gruplar için inşa ettirilmiş zaten üniformalı teröristleri görüyorsunuz resimde
umarım o yıkılan yere hastane okul falan yapılırda insanlar faydalanır
Good, our MFA been talking about this illegal construction in 2017. Structures built by terrorists don’t have a right to exist on our land
Why do you even visit that sub?
It is essentially on the same level as stormfront or /pol when it comes to non Europeans or Muslims, especially we Turks and Azerbaijani.
Literally run by neo nazi greeks.
Honestly I don't blame them in r/europe.
No shit they hate us.
We are SO terrible at media.
Even here in reddit.
They say we hate Jews,
We roll our eyes and do pikachu meme face.
Instead of saying NO WE DON'T. Here are synagogues we are proud of.
There should have been made a post about actual historical churches in Azerbaijan and Turkey.
Those that might seek more info will come over here.
And they should see our feelings toward actually old christian heritage in Azerbaijan. Including Armenian one in Baku.
in azerbaijan, churches dissapear. in khocaly, azerbaijanis dissapear.
hahahaha, let them cry, keep removing those objects 😁
I.. I don't even know what to say tbh... Do they know that entire fucking cities were destroyed? And no one cares?? I'm just so mad. I don't want to look at that post anymore. It's not worth my nerves..
I can understand why it was demolished. But it shows that azerbaijan needs to be careful as media is against them. The west cares a lot more if a church is legally demolished rather than illegally built
Honestly tho i am saying again. The europe's discord server have more quality than europe subreddit :/ and Europe server members accept it too lmao ._. First i am confused the server when little bit do not like same with the sub
That sub is a lost cause. No matter what we do they will be against us. They are not even trying to hide their bias. We're the bad guys by default. So I stopped caring what others say and enjoy what we achieved as a nation despite all odds. We just need to be strong enough not to be at mercy of others.
It is stupidity to ruin the church especially when all eyes are on us. I don't f care about the year it was built, nor comments of full-time turkophob [r/europe](https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/) subredditors, why was it destroyed, the question is this. To be brutally honest, I dont see something strong to justify the action. Bad for Azerbaijan image: Armenian special troop of keyboard warriors will make the destruction of church issue more famous than Azerbaijan herself all over the social media
Edit: As far as I learnt the church itself was an extension of military base?
It was built for army
From the poster's profile, you can already see he writes in Armenian from time to time and has posted more things that are opposing Azerbaijan or Azerbaijanis. He purposefully leaves out context and a nuanced perception (and/or probably has no nuanced perception on the Karabakh matter to begin with). Many Europeans fall victim to misinformation like this.