Right. We’re going to end it there since absolutely none of you are discussing the law underpinning this situation and the comments are devolving into one shitty hot take after another.
This is r/auslaw. If want to discuss hurr durr cop bad religion bad then go to r/Australia.
But would they stop child sexual abuse survivors? You know. Those "touched" by the church. The ones that Pell helped to hide and then got away with it.
You know, the system in place to deal with the practice of shuffling around priests to protect them from sexual abuse investigations - it was so common they had systems in place, but no, the issue wasn't systemic.
I dunno, on one side you've got a bunch of people looking to have a funeral without disruption, and on the other you've got a crowd who throw protests and marches so peaceful they're commercialised into things like Mardi Gras. IIRC, the last gay riot was over fifty years ago. Seems to me you're much more likely to see a brawl if you give it twelve hours and head down the road, and that's with the lockout laws.
Who do you reckon would be the instigating party?
>Everyone knows that gays are notoriously violent thugs
Well, maybe, he was talking to me. Was you talking to him? Because you was obviously talking to one of us. So what is it? Who?! Who was you talking to?!
>Everyone knows that gays are notoriously violent thugs
[Well...](https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/if-youre-not-stragiht-youre-at-higher-risk-for-domestic-violence-180949988/)
Yep, have seen this first hand. Lived with a guy whose partner was, simply put, a thieving, manipulative, nasty piece of work who would become physically violent when caught, or sometimes even questioned. When my housemate went to the cops about it, they laughed him off. After that, the abuser realised the consequence-free nature of the situation and escalated.
Abusive people come in all shades, but when some are allowed to run rampant, that's where statistics skew.
>Who do you reckon would be the instigating party?
A victim of the catholic church, or a family member of one would be my pick of the theoretical risk the police are concerned about. A requiem mass for Pell would be expected to stir up some understandably powerful feelings.
With a protest in the direct vicinity, there would be potential difficulty keeping control of the environment / responding to risks and threats.
The "Safety concerns" subtext = protecting those that represent an institution, and are attending a mass to mourn a man, that literally enabled systemic paedophilia for years. It's not a far-fetched risk.
I just hope the LGBTQ crowd can find a way to cover the place in rainbow glitter first. It seems they would be permitted to protest if they altered their protest route.
The church should leave the ribbons alone, though. Let the victims have a voice and show them a bit of dignity some time this century.
>Who do you reckon would be the instigating party?
It would absolutely be some "god fearing Christian" but being morally right is not much consolation for the people that then have to attend your funeral because you hit your head on the roadway.
Yes I have seen peaceful caltrops bringing police horses down, people punched in the face, human and animals hurt.
Protests aren’t what they were and they are getting worse.
Yeah, just like how neo-Nazis have a right to protest and express their political views, but if they were to show up at a LGBT+ specific event, like drag-storytime, that would be a safety concern and would be disallowed?
A better example would be how we allow people to protest and express their political views against abortion, so long as they don't do it outside abortion clinics.
>Yeah, just like how neo-Nazis have a right to protest and express their political views, but if they were to show up at a LGBT+ specific event, like drag-storytime, that would be a safety concern and would be disallowed?
In your scenario did they submit a form 1 before turning up? You are comparing apples to oranges here.
I will never condone the organisation that assaulted gay people (who had lawfully assembled) at the first Mardi Gras marching in it, not to mention all the other shit cops have done to our community in Sydney alone since
If I may the slang term may as well be
*lippy police*
(Noun) - it’s 2023 and they are still showing no respect to LBGTI+ and others ( children, non-Catholics, the community) in the way they police.
So when is? When do the victims and their families get their restitution for the horrible shit, he not only did, but was also covered up by the catholic church.
As much as I dislike the man and hope he’s burning in hell, funerals aren’t for the dead. They’re for people who loved the person who has died and those people deserve to be able to grieve privately. This is not the place for a protest.
Would the Guardian run this story if some Christian Nutjob Group was planning to hold a peaceful protest past the funeral of a prominent gay rights activist?
I'm no fan of Pell or the things he did when alive but the dude is dead, he's square with the house, and he will never oppose anything again. This is just distasteful.
The police have an extensive history of;
a) violence and oppression of the LGBT community.
b) supporting right wing extremists.
I would also take pretty strong issue with the police taking an active roll in choosing who does and doesn’t get targeted and censured, even if “Christian nut jobs” make that list.
This is a specific group that applied for specific permission and is specifically saying it is in relation to Pell's views on LGBT+ issues.
If there are other protests going on, we haven't heard about them in the news. Until we do, we don't know what the NSW police will do.
Was being the operative word here. Do you think Pell will somehow be less of a dead disgusting pervert because of this protest? Do you think he cares? What does this protest achieve? Do you think the people attending the funeral mass will suddenly change their view of him? Funerals are not for the dead, they are for the living. You might think you are protesting the deceased, but what you are actually doing is disrespecting the living. If you take a bunch of emotional people, and then act with disrespect towards them, tempers are going to flare. Add in a hot summer day in February and brawls happen. People get hurt. Are you really going to attempt to justify risking injuring, or worse, killing people, because you didn't like a man who is now dead?
A protest is intended to make the powerful feel uncomfortable. That’s what a protest is.
The Catholic Church elite and their supporters need to be made uncomfortable, if only for a day. Their victims, who they refuse to acknowledge, have to live their entire lives in shame and degradation.
Consider it a tiny downpayment on justice for those who has their innocence stolen by old powerful men
>The Catholic Church elite and their supporters need to be made uncomfortable,
The goalposts seem to be shifting a little.
>Community Action for Rainbow Rights, a Sydney-based campaign group, had planned to protest through Sydney to St Mary’s on Thursday, the day of Pell’s requiem mass, to denounce his strident and long-held opposition to same-sex marriage and LGBTQ+ rights.
I thought this was about protesting Pell
With the greatest of respect, also fuck the institution that enabled and facilitated child abuse globally and continues to do so to this day
Opinions are my own and not that of the Rainbow Rights
Right, so I think we've covered off that all of Catholicism can go die in a fire as far as you are concerned. That's great, but this is not about the merits of any particular opinion. This is about the safety of people.
This has nothing to do with public safety, and everything to do with ensuring that the powerful are sheltered from the consequences of their own actions.
Heaven forbid Tony Abbott or Peter Dutton or Prue McGowan might be booed
At a time when lgbtq folk are under attack worldwide, this protest does more harm than good for us. It just gives ammo to the bigots who want to erode lgbtq rights. We all know he’s a piece of shit, protesting his funeral does what?
Right. We’re going to end it there since absolutely none of you are discussing the law underpinning this situation and the comments are devolving into one shitty hot take after another. This is r/auslaw. If want to discuss hurr durr cop bad religion bad then go to r/Australia.
But would they stop child sexual abuse survivors? You know. Those "touched" by the church. The ones that Pell helped to hide and then got away with it. You know, the system in place to deal with the practice of shuffling around priests to protect them from sexual abuse investigations - it was so common they had systems in place, but no, the issue wasn't systemic.
Wouldn't it be nice if 'safety concerns' were required to be explicitly detailed? Like, go on, give us a scenario and a likelihood.
Are you kidding claw? This is a brawl waiting to happen.
I dunno, on one side you've got a bunch of people looking to have a funeral without disruption, and on the other you've got a crowd who throw protests and marches so peaceful they're commercialised into things like Mardi Gras. IIRC, the last gay riot was over fifty years ago. Seems to me you're much more likely to see a brawl if you give it twelve hours and head down the road, and that's with the lockout laws. Who do you reckon would be the instigating party?
Everyone knows that gays are notoriously violent thugs I still bear scars from the Glitter Wars
>Everyone knows that gays are notoriously violent thugs Well, maybe, he was talking to me. Was you talking to him? Because you was obviously talking to one of us. So what is it? Who?! Who was you talking to?!
>Everyone knows that gays are notoriously violent thugs [Well...](https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/if-youre-not-stragiht-youre-at-higher-risk-for-domestic-violence-180949988/)
Yep, have seen this first hand. Lived with a guy whose partner was, simply put, a thieving, manipulative, nasty piece of work who would become physically violent when caught, or sometimes even questioned. When my housemate went to the cops about it, they laughed him off. After that, the abuser realised the consequence-free nature of the situation and escalated. Abusive people come in all shades, but when some are allowed to run rampant, that's where statistics skew.
>Who do you reckon would be the instigating party? A victim of the catholic church, or a family member of one would be my pick of the theoretical risk the police are concerned about. A requiem mass for Pell would be expected to stir up some understandably powerful feelings. With a protest in the direct vicinity, there would be potential difficulty keeping control of the environment / responding to risks and threats. The "Safety concerns" subtext = protecting those that represent an institution, and are attending a mass to mourn a man, that literally enabled systemic paedophilia for years. It's not a far-fetched risk. I just hope the LGBTQ crowd can find a way to cover the place in rainbow glitter first. It seems they would be permitted to protest if they altered their protest route. The church should leave the ribbons alone, though. Let the victims have a voice and show them a bit of dignity some time this century.
>Who do you reckon would be the instigating party? It would absolutely be some "god fearing Christian" but being morally right is not much consolation for the people that then have to attend your funeral because you hit your head on the roadway.
Cops.
Yes I have seen peaceful caltrops bringing police horses down, people punched in the face, human and animals hurt. Protests aren’t what they were and they are getting worse.
I think it would bring some colour and flair to an otherwise dowdy send off of an unmitigated disaster of a human.
it leaves a pretty bad taste in my mouth when neo nazis are allowed to march with police protection
These guys would be able to march with Police protection, but the sticking point is marching past the church during the funeral.
Yeah, just like how neo-Nazis have a right to protest and express their political views, but if they were to show up at a LGBT+ specific event, like drag-storytime, that would be a safety concern and would be disallowed?
A better example would be how we allow people to protest and express their political views against abortion, so long as they don't do it outside abortion clinics.
Which is because those protesters have a long history of violence and harassment.
>Yeah, just like how neo-Nazis have a right to protest and express their political views, but if they were to show up at a LGBT+ specific event, like drag-storytime, that would be a safety concern and would be disallowed? In your scenario did they submit a form 1 before turning up? You are comparing apples to oranges here.
You know, I have no idea. I know the socialists who showed up to defend the drag event didn't, but not sure if that requires one.
So what happened to right for peaceful protest?
At a funeral? Really?
Goes to show that police marching at LGBTQ events is lip service
Thats just to fool ABC viewers they dont have a problem with Nazis in uniform.
At least in NSW they don't literally wear black shirts. Looking at you Victoria
I will never condone the organisation that assaulted gay people (who had lawfully assembled) at the first Mardi Gras marching in it, not to mention all the other shit cops have done to our community in Sydney alone since
If I may the slang term may as well be *lippy police* (Noun) - it’s 2023 and they are still showing no respect to LBGTI+ and others ( children, non-Catholics, the community) in the way they police.
Ah Ok. Who here commenting has read the HCA judgment, as well as Weinberg’s dissenting judgment upon which it is based?
Are people here talking about that matter, as opposed to his more general failings with respect to institutional abuse?
Everyone
I sincerely doubt that.
Well at least most of the regulars
“NSW Police don’t want protesters to remind the world of the deplorable crimes committed by Pell” Fixed the headline
That’s not what this is about.
Well it it fucking should be
It should be about protecting his image??? I don’t like him either mate but the funeral isn’t the place to protest.
So when is? When do the victims and their families get their restitution for the horrible shit, he not only did, but was also covered up by the catholic church.
never the right time for the jackboots
This post belongs on leftist forum r/AustralianPolitics
It's a pity everyone can't be this mad about the rampart child sexual abuse in the remote Indigenous communites.
As much as I dislike the man and hope he’s burning in hell, funerals aren’t for the dead. They’re for people who loved the person who has died and those people deserve to be able to grieve privately. This is not the place for a protest.
This is similar to the Streisand effect
The new Westboro Baptist Church?
Would the Guardian run this story if some Christian Nutjob Group was planning to hold a peaceful protest past the funeral of a prominent gay rights activist? I'm no fan of Pell or the things he did when alive but the dude is dead, he's square with the house, and he will never oppose anything again. This is just distasteful.
It's not the protest, it's the police response.
I would expect a similar Police response to a christian nutjob group protest outside a funeral of a gay activist.
I wouldnt.
Yeah, they would.
The police have an extensive history of; a) violence and oppression of the LGBT community. b) supporting right wing extremists. I would also take pretty strong issue with the police taking an active roll in choosing who does and doesn’t get targeted and censured, even if “Christian nut jobs” make that list.
Pell is absolutely not square with the house. He was a disgusting pervert and deserves to be protested.
This protest is explicitly about Pell's views on LGBT+ things. Not about the other aspects of his life.
Pell is dead. His views are irrelevant
I don’t think the NSW police will discriminate between LGBT+ and sexual survivors. This is an excuse.
This is a specific group that applied for specific permission and is specifically saying it is in relation to Pell's views on LGBT+ issues. If there are other protests going on, we haven't heard about them in the news. Until we do, we don't know what the NSW police will do.
Was being the operative word here. Do you think Pell will somehow be less of a dead disgusting pervert because of this protest? Do you think he cares? What does this protest achieve? Do you think the people attending the funeral mass will suddenly change their view of him? Funerals are not for the dead, they are for the living. You might think you are protesting the deceased, but what you are actually doing is disrespecting the living. If you take a bunch of emotional people, and then act with disrespect towards them, tempers are going to flare. Add in a hot summer day in February and brawls happen. People get hurt. Are you really going to attempt to justify risking injuring, or worse, killing people, because you didn't like a man who is now dead?
A protest is intended to make the powerful feel uncomfortable. That’s what a protest is. The Catholic Church elite and their supporters need to be made uncomfortable, if only for a day. Their victims, who they refuse to acknowledge, have to live their entire lives in shame and degradation. Consider it a tiny downpayment on justice for those who has their innocence stolen by old powerful men
>The Catholic Church elite and their supporters need to be made uncomfortable, The goalposts seem to be shifting a little. >Community Action for Rainbow Rights, a Sydney-based campaign group, had planned to protest through Sydney to St Mary’s on Thursday, the day of Pell’s requiem mass, to denounce his strident and long-held opposition to same-sex marriage and LGBTQ+ rights. I thought this was about protesting Pell
With the greatest of respect, also fuck the institution that enabled and facilitated child abuse globally and continues to do so to this day Opinions are my own and not that of the Rainbow Rights
Right, so I think we've covered off that all of Catholicism can go die in a fire as far as you are concerned. That's great, but this is not about the merits of any particular opinion. This is about the safety of people.
This has nothing to do with public safety, and everything to do with ensuring that the powerful are sheltered from the consequences of their own actions. Heaven forbid Tony Abbott or Peter Dutton or Prue McGowan might be booed
The powerful are unlikely to care. Instead, protests as they are of late endanger the innocent
At a time when lgbtq folk are under attack worldwide, this protest does more harm than good for us. It just gives ammo to the bigots who want to erode lgbtq rights. We all know he’s a piece of shit, protesting his funeral does what?
Surely the most effective protest is none at all. What he is or has done is between him and his god. I say let him sink without trace