T O P
HunterRoze

Masculinity - no My dateablety - fuck yes


TRFKTA

This is a concise way of putting what I wanted to say


Dummkopf_Idiot

This


WarDicks

Couldn’t agree more


No_Load_7183

Its why I tell nobody. People just think I am offensive and mysterious but I can tell I am kinda attractive to some, especially when I just stfu. It is a better way to live ngl.


HunterRoze

Trust me - I don't tell people about my ASD all that often, but something must be detectable.


b1ackm1st

Also to the degree which one lies on the high-functioning spectrum, may result in depression, anxiety, all of which may consequently impact androgen profiles, I notice a dramatic effect in my mood when I work out with all of the effort I can possibly muster (perfect form; of course first learn out how to workout properly, a life-long endeavor indeed....), which has a greater ROI in increasing baseline energy levels. Greater energy expenditure provided you're working out properly, the greater ROI in this department you're going to garner. Anyways....all Aspies should strive to workout, and if you don't want to get big, just practice like really short intervals concerning strength training daily (a craft which has to be maintained to truly reap the benefits it provides, or if you didn't even want to do strength training (I wouldn't give you a choice, honestly lol), then of course you're left with metabolic work (HIIT, etc. - which can suck unless you enjoy it), boxing/MMA/etc. is the best form of cardio, and you get the benefits of learning how to defend yourself if ever to catch yourself in a sticky situation, two-for-one imo), and yoga for flexibility and to exercise strength potential from your home gym, membership, etc. You win life. How can one expect to get anywhere far in life first without having a great understanding of how to master their health, increase your networking and social spiderwebs, and acquire more wealth so that they may once have the capability to raise a proper family when a future opportunity presents itself...


andrew13055

I don't care about how masculine others perceive me to be. I just want to be myself.


esamerelda

This is an attractive attitude. Friend and I just had a whole conversation about how awesome it is to date men who don't let their gender DICKtate their hobbies and behaviors. Be you, friend. 🙂✊


spirit-mush

No. Still totally a man. A gay man but a man.


redeemable-soul

I second that. Also a gay man but most people think I look and act too straight to be gay. Lol


Tytoalba2

Opposite here, apparently wearing pink shirts is gay. Don't really care tbh, and not quite sure about how straight I am either to be honest


Working_Garden_2945

Research suggests sexuality is a spectrum. Although I’m getting tired of hearing this from my LGBT+ friends that I estimate a lot, I honestly think it’s true. So my guess is everyone’s somewhere in the spectrum, and then they act straight or gay, depending on how far they are willing to go as for the outcome. i.e, look at how the number of gay ppl is so reduced in older generations. They still reside in the continuous scale, but the outcome they give it is still mostly binary


Libtard5eva

I swear people forget gay man are just men who happen to also like dick. Like people don't expect gay men to act like men.


erossnaider

Yup same


DrRichardGains

Do you pitch or catch?


spirit-mush

Neither. I’m a side. Just to make things more complicated, you know?


DrRichardGains

Hehe


SPeCCoLT

If you mean the stereotypical masculinity about being a manly man. I couldnt care less about losing that.


AlwaysUseSFTP

This is it for me. I just don’t care about masculinity. I always felt like people who do are trying to meet some expectation or prove something. Not meaning to judge them. Maybe that’s just what they enjoy. But I personally could not care less. A lot of people have mentioned the affect of this on dating. I mean yeah sure I probably wouldn’t do too well with girls who are into macho manly men, but… why would I want to? We’re clearly not each other’s type. There’s plenty of girls out there who don’t care about that sort of thing.


Background-Cook-9574

I just don’t understand the social need to “be a man.” Like I have a dick, why do I need to shoot things and talk about sports all day? But that’s just my view.


frangipanivine

You really don't. It's society that is suddenly obsessed with gender norms, like "little girl likes trucks and video games, maybe she's a boy" like no. Just be yourself.


bushi2021

I completely agree with you! I grew up believing I was supposed to be a man according to society standards. Got a girlfriend, got married, had kids. Turned out it didn't work at all. I still preferred men to women. At last, the boat sank and it was disastrous. So, just be yourself is the best path to be taken. In a nutshell, we should live to be happy, not to make other people happy... in a certain way. You must know what I mean. Altruistic love for yourself is the key.


dee615

I'm sorry you ( and others) go through this performance of the social narrative that's dinned into us. That is why awareness about gender and sexuality is so necessary. It's not about announcing one's " special snowflake- ness" . It's about recognizing and honoring one's authenticity, and a refusal of the pervasive mandate to structure one's life based on one's genitals.


feminemesia

Not a man, so advance apology for throwing in my opinion, but it's so weird how much being neurodivergent would've absolutely had me diagnosed with childhood gender dysphoria if I'd been growing up now. Don't give a rats ass what adults do as long as they don't push it on me, but I worry when people fixate on the identities of children because I think a majority of those kids are either gay, lesbian, or ND - and it's all based in the same roles that people allegedly want to get rid of, what gives?


6138

Agreed. It seems with the fixation on "identity" politics, I think, it taking us backwards, not forwards. Everyone has their own "group" now, and will vehemently attack anyone not in "their" group. If you're a girl and you like guy things, maybe you're non binary, or maybe you're trans, if you're a boy and you like playing with dolls, maybe that means something? In the past, we were starting to focus on the individual, not their "identity". Your gender, race, orientation, etc, doesn't matter, you're just a human being who likes trucks, or computer games, or guns, or dolls, or knitting, or whatever the fuck else, who cares, do what you want. Now, everything has to fit into a group, and it's doing more to divide us than unite us.


OnSpectrum

As an individual, I hated sports as a kid. I was terrible at them because I have poor coordination and didn't figure out how to work around it until I was past 30, and each year of not learning sports meant I was further behind my peers, and LESS welcome in games. Also, I really don't like noise (like shouting at games, crowd noise, etc.), and I process this kind of sound as pain. Both of these things are ASD-related, and although I ended up gay, I was LABELED gay by peers long before I had any idea what gay was. I had no interest in the "identity" for the first 20-odd years I was stuck with it, by peers from mostly conservative families. Thankfully, I stopped worrying what people like that think, and am happily married (once it became legal where I am) to the man I will spend the rest of my life with. Strangely enough, getting rid of these folks also meant I could learn sports, and I wasn't too bad once I got rid of the "picked last in school" baggage. And funny, but the people who loved bullying when I was 10 kind of stopped when I was a 6ft3, openly but not flamboyantly gay adult with martial arts training. I hear you about SOME of the identity politics, but don't forget a lot of us had our "identity" shoved at us when all we wanted to do was get through a damn day.


6138

Yeah, they exact same thing happened to me. I'm not gay, but I was awful at sports, and so people called me the "f" word all the time, and made obscene sexual references to me on a continual basis. I don't know if they genuinely thought I was gay because I didn't play sports or whether they just wanted to insult me, and back then being gay was the common insult that all the bullies would use. I got quite good at running later in life, I don't know if that counts as a "sport", but by that time I had moved away and never saw any of the bullies again.


OnSpectrum

Running is absolutely a sport, and it's great that you found it. I think it was that I wasn't what they considered "masculine" in the southern US area I came from, though I wasn't "feminine" either... I was just different and they just tore into me about it. But then I moved away, and when I came back as a 6ft3 adult, maybe they outgrew the behavior or maybe they chose easier targets. But I was getting those slurs before I was interested in ANYONE. I think the extremes have a louder voice online than the folks in the middle, but a lot of us are still just trying to get through the day, do our jobs, pay bills, deal with our family and other responsibilities, etc. I won't vote for someone who campaigns on taking my rights (or other people's rights) away, for example, but I'd rather see elected officials (and online discussion for that matter) focus on fixing real problems that real people have, keeping the economy going, building infrastructure, cleaning up the environment, making sure kids get an education , and making sure people can live their lives without discrimination or harassment, keeping the streets safe, etc.


6138

>I was just different and they just tore into me about it. Yep, that's it exactly. I went to a pretty tough school, full of "macho" guys, and if you didn't talk about sex and play sports you were immediately considered gay. It wasn't the best school for me, but all schools were like that back then. I think nowadays they are a little better. >I think the extremes have a louder voice online than the folks in the middle, but a lot of us are still just trying to get through the day, do our jobs, pay bills, deal with our family and other responsibilities, etc. That's absolutely right, and I think that's a trap I easily fall into online. i get the feeling people hate me, or are out to get me, when it's really just the online world magnifying things, and reality isn't quite as bad. > focus on fixing real problems that real people have, keeping the economy going, building infrastructure, cleaning up the environment, Exactly. This is why I think the "Woke" mentality is *sometimes* doing more harm than good. I mean they are focusing on minor inconsequential issues, and making people into enemies, when most of the time we agree on the big things (equality, education, civil rights, etc).


OnSpectrum

And I was awful at sports for a very specific reason: I have ASD and I don't learn motion the same way NT people do, or at the same pace. My coordination was (and still is) not as good as an average NT. My gym teachers just figured my peers would teach me, but that was no more realistic than expecting a kid who is years behind in math to catch up because of "peers". Once I started learning basic athletic skills, I caught up (but I was in my 30s by then.)


6138

I often wonder if I was bad at sports for the same reason. I suspect I was, I just wasn't at all coordinated. Apparently poor motor coordination is a common issue with people with ASD.


obiwantogooutside

Suddenly? Lololololol


fallspector

Fully prepared to be downvoted for this but Unfortunately the need to be “a real man” has existed pretty much always. So if you don’t drink beer, shoot guns, do manual labour and sleep around then you aren’t a real man. It’s honestly so ridiculous, pathetic and only contributes to the high suicide rates among males Better than that we guys who claim to be alphas and say they are strong men but dont want independent women. They want women who are submissive cos that what a woman is suppose to be. Basically the notion of what a real man is just fucks over everyone


BorealusTheBear

I find it funny that the whole Alpha thing came from an incorrect paper on wolf pack dynamics, people just took it an ran with it not caring if it was actually true or not and now base their whole personalities on it. Anything based on fiction will fuck the people who follow it as if it was fact over


fallspector

Finally someone said it! The person that wrote the whole alpha dynamic has literally came out and said they got it wrong but still people aren’t listening


MISS_DARK_SCIENTIST

Totally, I'm a biologist but the Alphas never listen, they don't want to know their pedestal is made of lies.


[deleted]

[удалено]


Animal_Flossing

Personally I feel that you can't qualify as a himbo if you have enough of an ego to call yourself an alpha. Himbos are supposed to be dumb but sweet, in my opinion


AncientGreekHistory

That has not been my experience.


fallspector

I’m glad you had a better experience! I really wish more men weren’t damaged with toxic ideals of what it means to be a “real” man


NotCis_TM

I think that the traditional notion of "being a man" is about being on track to become a paterfamilias.


Tetraneutron83

Thanks, you articulated something I've felt for a while really well.


Sumsar01

Being a man has nothing to do with shooting things or talking about sports. Thats at best the mem you've been sold by a society thats doesnt understand what makes you a man.


LewisK37

"Like I have a dick" Being a man is not solely based on and does not even necessarily need to be based on anatomy/genitalia


cryptus-maximus

This is a cope response, like many others in this thread. Masculinity is more than shooting things or being into sports. Consider what being a male meant when we were still hunter gatherers, its about being decisive, brave, having the capacity to be violent and spreading your seed among other things. Today the context is different, but these traits are still applicable even if we disagree with them.


JColeisokatbest

\>Consider what being a male meant when we were still hunter gatherers, its about being decisive, brave, having the capacity to be violent and spreading your seed among other things. Dude we are not hunter gatherers. I have never had a kid. I haven't been in a fight in years, I don't get called on to be brave. It's interesting that of the things you consider to be core masculine traits you have to go back to being a hunter gatherer thousands of years ago for them to be relevant. You are choosing the most shallow surface level definition. Here is the truth if you don't have typical male hobbies and typical male affectations people will not think you are masculine.


Content-Load6595

That's not what being a man is about bud. Look into masculine and feminine energy.


Piskoro

from just that name alone, I don’t think anyone needs to look into those


mr_bedbugs

You must be the alpha version. Buggy, and not ready for release.


AffectionateHand2525

Whenever someone mentions energy outside of economics, big red flag.


Animal_Flossing

Of all things, why economics?


belfman

Brb going to stop researching renewable energy because apparently that makes me toxic. Sorry planet Earth!


AncientGreekHistory

You just gave an example of what he said (which I don't generally agree with, though I think I'm picking up what he's putting down), while acting like you're arguing against it.


belfman

Ok this is the Aspie sub so I should clarify, I was being very sarcastic. I agree that "masculine and feminine energy" is a ridiculous phrase, and I do agree that people who use it (as well as more vulgar variations on it, you know the ones) should be avoided. But it's also obvious the word "Energy" can mean more than its use in economics. Actually I don't know why /u/AffectionateHand2525 said econ was its main use, I mostly think of it as a term in physics? That was the use I used it in.


Individ321

Depends on how you define masculinity


[deleted]

I'd argue that masculinity has been defined for a while now, and that it is directly correlated with the effects of testosterone -- muscles, hairiness, decreased emotionality, lower anxiety, etc. Masculinity isn't really something that has multiple definitions, and if the definition of masculinity is changed the abstract notion that it represents never will be and a new word will replace it to construe that meaning.


Animal_Flossing

I don't think many people would mention "lower anxiety" when listing masculine traits. However, as u/JColeisokatbest points out, most people would probably list a lot of non-hormonal traits such as drinking beer, having short hair, etc. The word 'masculine' isn't currently used the way you describe, and as far as I'm aware, English doesn't have a word - let alone a commonly used one - that means what you describe. I'll wager that most languages don't.


[deleted]

Quote from the internet for searching "testosterone lowers anxiety" - Administration of testosterone, a steroid hormone, has been shown to reduce socially fearful, avoidant, and submissive behavior." That describes an aspect of stoicism which is obviously regarded as masculine. Non hormonal traits considered masculine -- the desire to have short hair is one that is regulated to some degree by testosterone, in the sense that testosterone causes a person to be more physically capable and therefore more likely to want to engage in physical activities which would make having longer hair more cumbersome, not to mention that society wants to make use of those individuals' ability to engage in those activities and rewards them with respect and self-worth. Testosterone also causes hair to grow shorter. Another quote from the internet, "Researchers have found that the male hormone testosterone masks feelings of discomfort." Plain and simple, masculine people don't care as much about comfort, and won't take the extra effort to make themselves comfortable to the degree that nonmasculine people will. In addition, it becomes a game for them to not make themselves comfortable while watching people make themselves comfortable in certain circumstances. Also, the word masculine is obviously used the way I described, since the word literally means, "having qualities or appearance traditionally associated with men", and all of those qualities are due to testosterone either directly or indirectly.


Animal_Flossing

I understand and acknowledge that you probably mean all of this in earnest, but to be quite honest, there's too many fallacies in your reasoning for me to address it comprehensively. I don't view discussions as fights, but as all of us working together to reach a common consensus (or at least gain some perspective by hearing each others' views), so I rarely try to 'dismantle' other people's arguments. In this case, however, I think you (and potential other readers of this thread) might benefit from reflecting a bit on your argument structure - both when it comes to this specific matter and your general rhetorical style. I've written out your rhetorical weak points below and spoiler tagged it so you don't need to read more than you feel like at any one point. 1) >!You cite "quote from the internet" as your source twice - sorry, but that's not a reliable source. In fact it's not even a source, it's just a medium.!< 2) >!Your first paragraph is a circular argument: Testosterone lowers anxiety, therefore low anxiety is masculine, therefore masculine means 'testosterone-related'. That doesn't work unless you already believe that 'masculine' means 'testosterone-related'.!< 3) >!Your second paragraph seemingly means to address all of the non-hormonal masculine traits, but only actually addresses the short hair trait.!< 4) >!Moreover, you don't actually address the short hair trait. You claim that wanting short hair is a natural effect of testosterone, but looking at men's hairstyles through history makes it clear that this is not the case. Long hair was in fashion for men in Europe during much of the second millennium, and vikings - often held up as an epitome of masculinity - notably tended to wear their hair long (fun fact: Some vikings had long hair in the front and short hair in the back, effectively making their hairstyle a mullet).!< 5) >!A continuation of 4. I grant you that, while nowhere near universal, men's hair fashion has historically tended to be on the practical side of things. But that still doesn't mean that's because of testosterone - in fact, the cultural expectation for men to do the manual labour in a society seems to me to be a much more effective explanation for that.!< 6) >!Your fourth paragraph claims that testosterone masks discomfort (again without any substantiated source, as seen in point 1), and you jump directly from that to the conclusion that masculine people don't care about comfort, which is a different claim entirely.!< 7) >!Similar to point 5: Even if you did effectively argue that masculine people don't care about comfort, you'd still need to construct an argument that this is due to testosterone, and not cultural factors.!< 8) >!Your conclusion isn't a necessary result of what you write before it. Even if your previous points were valid, that wouldn't mean that the word 'masculine' meant 'testosterone-related', only that what we describe as masculine is typically an effect of testosterone. That still wouldn't mean that people were specifically thinking of testosterone when using the word.!< 9) >!Finally, there's just too much you don't address at all. I've already mentioned cultural conditioning a few times in the above, and as it stands, that seems to me like a much stronger hypothesis in explaining most stereotypically masculine behaviours. Then there's also the fact that biology is much more complex than just "Hormone goes in, behaviour comes out". I believe that testosterone interacts with so many other things in our bodies that there's no way it would have the same effect on everyone, as your explanation seems to require that it does. I'm not a biologist, though, so I might be wrong. If someone has a source to confirm or reject my impression, I'd greatly appreciate it.!<


SerONoSerquees

I think you need to understand language better because masculinity definitely has no complete objective definition and to claim such a thing would be a complete show of being uneducated of the world. Whatever your subjective view on it is will not be the same as others so even if the definition changes as that's how language works. Then the exact same thing as you think will not be described unless your understanding so loosely defines masculinity that it is not really a definition. Also by your lack of actually defining what masculinity is you have shown you have no definition of it.


JColeisokatbest

I had people tell me drinking beer, short hair, etc are masculine. None of these things are biological or related to testosterone. What is and is not masculine changes with time and culture. Wearing dresses is not masculine, makeup is not masculine. These things again have nothing to do with testosterone.


Educational_Worth906

Doubt it. Certainly wouldn’t care. I was born autistic. It didn’t come along and remove anything or add anything. Masculinity, like so many things is a meaningless construct. Its existence is dependent on the opinions of others. Someone else’s opinion of me is usually none of my business. My caring about other people’s opinion of me is directly proportionate to how much they care about me.


FatReverend

Nope, never thought of it that way but I also never put much stalk in the concept of masculinity.


Indorilionn

Rather most people's conception of masculinity takes away from their humanity. Mine does not.


midnight_staticbox

I don't think it takes away from my masculinity, but I do think society has done enough damage to Neuro typical men and their masculinity, and having Asperger's already is like being a square peg to the world's obnoxiously round hole.


Borg34572

Maybe when I was younger but not anymore. It just helps that I have a toned body now and facial hair but I looked quite shy and boyish when I was younger.


low_contrast_black

Nope. It took me a very long while to figure out that everybody has an opinion about, well, almost everything. Once I decided that I needed to make up my own mind and live life to MY standard, things got a lot more straightforward. While I do certainly care about what others may think, I care more about what I think about who I should be and making sure I’m okay with me. Sure sometimes I still get down on myself because I don’t have the secret NT decoder ring, and that can feel a lot like failure. But it certainly doesn’t diminish my sense living right according to my standards.


kiramad90

I’m still trying to find a correlation between Cowardice and Aspergers, how many people here think they are cowards ( no offense)


MuramatsuCherry

I do. I think it might have something to do with parents who don't validate and childhood emotional neglect.


[deleted]

I just want to clarify, Being attractive and being masculine are two different things, they are not directly linked to each other. Masculinity comes in all different shapes, colors, sizes, and everything in between, so don’t be discouraged about your masculinity. From what the general population describes as “masculine”, then no, I don’t think my Aspergers specifically has had any impact on it, and I’d consider myself pretty masculine, But again, I could be completely wrong, or just biased, because it depends on how you define masculinity. Surprisingly, there’s very little characteristics that are considered universally masculine. Aspergers hasn’t 𝙙𝙞𝙧𝙚𝙘𝙩𝙡𝙮 had an impact on my masculinity, unless you consider the fact that it can have an impact on sensory issues, ruminating, etc. (which could be considered more feminine traits), but even that is probably subjective. Oh also, terms like “alpha male, “beta male” in humans, are complete bullshit.


obiwantogooutside

Also, evidently in wolves. That whole alpha pair wolf study was debunked.


[deleted]

Yeah, Makes sense. Even in wolves it seems unrealistic to me.


Obligation_Guilty

Hell yeah


[deleted]

😄


Temporary-Product928

No, and when I hear or read about masculinity, it tends to drift into a weird try hard energy where the man is implored to lift weights, eat red meat and have as much unprotected sex with as many women as he possibly can. I find the message and the messagers off putting so I just do my own thing based on what I like and think is cool.


MammothWay1683

Not MY masculinity. Other people's view of what that is maybe. But metaphoricaly screw them.


Reptilian_American

Masculinity is a construct and the version I was raised with is dumb so that question doesn't really bother me in some senses. Has my life been more difficult because I was at times perceived as less masculine by my society's standards? Yes. I come across more traditionally masculine the older I get, and I don't want to be ridiculed like when I was a child ever again, but I don't feel any intrinsic doubt about myself worth because of this. More of a frustration with my time and place of existence (though I know I'm also fortunate in this time and place in many other senses).


neoexileee

My Aspergers takes away nothing. I’m strong as a result of my Aspergers. Source: Currently married to awesome wife with lucrative job.


0-Drag0n0

You have the awesome job or your wife does?


neoexileee

=_= I do dammit


mrmanwiththehandstan

What is your job


neoexileee

Doctor.


LockedOutOfElfland

No, if anything it makes one more predisposed to ignore gendered rules and norms, which is far preferable to playing by artificial rules enforced by backwards-minded pigs.


Despair__Senpai

I don't know what "normal" masculinity is supposed to feel like so I have no idea if I am lacking it, though I definitely don't feel like I can date or have relationships.


r4inbowranger

Nah, I’m 6’4, and built wide as a door, masculinity has never been something I’ve ever concerned myself with. I paint my nails, have chest length hair and generally act however I want at this point in my life. Masculinity, femininity be damned.


gravitygroove

wrote poetry in school, sang in a rock band, beat the crap outta bullies, diagnosed officially for... 15 years or so? I'm uncertain how anyone could conflate brain hyper connectivity or misregulation with gender presentation, but it IS a spectrum i guess?


CollectandRun

I'm not even sure what it means to be masculine. It's probably what you define it to be? I'm friends with men who sort of have a militaristic view of masculinity. Work out. Don't talk too much. Be productive. Don't do anything that a woman would do. I'm not really that at all. I am generally confident and consistent in my personality. That being said, I could probably call up 4-5 attractive girls (it's 1:30 AM on a Sunday) and get them to come over and hook up. Within 2-3 texts. I've never really tried to achieve masculinity. I have practiced and perfected my ability to be around women and worked on qualities that they find attractive? I'm an excellent cook.I can repair almost anything.My house is clean.I smell nice.I focus on listening and asking the right questions.I'm sarcastic and sometimes playful when "masking".I never really act desperate for anything.


[deleted]

Masculinity is a social construct, it is pretty subjective and has different meanings depending on where you are located geographically, I am gay, and I think that in itself kind of challenges the American view of masculinity but I was also raised Jewish, where I had values of education, politeness, and quiet observation of the world instilled in me. I personally prefer the standard of masculinity In places where people value work ethic, politeness, and being well groomed/clean over being assertive, aggressive, or physically fit, somewhere like South Korea. I don’t eat meat, I don’t drive a muddy Pick up truck with spilled/semi evaporated Coca Cola in the cup holders, I don’t watch football or see if I can cut my shit in half with my piss and at this age, I’m no longer really worried that I’m missing out, it almost seems like a cult from the outside looking in, it can be so incredibly toxic as core elements of western masculinity atleast, seem to revolve around humiliating “weaker” “less masculine” men and objectifying women. That’s just my personal take.


Optimal_Ad_8671

You know what's funny to me is that everything you're describing in paragraph three about what American society deems as "masculine" really reads like the behavior of either a five year old or an insecure male.


[deleted]

Atleast from my personal experience, in manufactured homes/trailer parks, just living way out in the middle of nowhere for stretches of my life, this is the masculinity I was exposed to. I remember in highschool a guy in my grade got sexually assaulted “as a joke”, on camera by another guy in my school and he basically was just told to “Man up”, guys wearing gross, food-stained MAGA Tee-shirts, cruising around after school in nasty unkept pick up trucks with American flags sticking off the back.


Optimal_Ad_8671

Definitely...the "it was just a joke" routine is a dead giveaway. I can see the appeal of America to these fucking idiots though. In a lot of decent countries these people are a joke and aren't even taken seriously. Here they're applauded for it and get so many pats on the back they eventually figure out they're somehow special and the world should cater to them. Or they run for political office.


Animal_Flossing

Could it have been any different? Insecure males (assuming you mean men who are specifically insecure about their masculinity) are reacting to their insecurity by doing stereotypical masculine stuff such as what u/WithThe_Frizz-NoWay describes


tobiusCHO

Tbh asperger is often followed by Anxiety and other weird coping mechanism which in its reality form becomes a judgmental mess. And this made me question my masculinity in the past. But now Im good. I understand what it means to be a man and what it means to be everything esle on a day to day basis. Hope this clarifies somethings for you op.


LockedOutOfElfland

"What it means to be a man" is socially constructed horsehockey. Right down to negative judgments of men who have naturally fluid motions when talking or expressing an idea, while enforcing the notion that to be considered a man your movements when walking, talking, dancing, running or engaging in any other activity need to be angular and constrained. "Being a man" isn't about "being a provider", saving damsels in distress from other more threatening men, going to the gym to build your muscles, settling down in a monogamous heterosexual marriage in your local middle-class suburbs, making lots of money, or maximizing your chances of getting laid. It's about whatever you want it to be.


Attor115

Or means nothing really at all, as the “alpha xi epsilon gamma tau male” trope shows it can be entirely shaped by randoms making shit up on the internet, effectively voiding all value


tobiusCHO

I am a man of society and God. Hope this clears things up for you. 🙏


tobiusCHO

Okay


ArcherGorgonite

I feel like it makes chicks not dig you as much. I wait to tell my partner I have Aspergers.. so they don't judge me by that.


Angry_Stoner

Masculinity is a social construct invented by dudes trying to justify their shitty behaviour, yea I’ll take care of the bugs and the heavy lifting just because I’m good at that but I’ll also do the laundry and other chores without thinking that it makes me a pussy. The alpha mindset is toxic as hell


Karkava

There are a lot of social constructs that are built to justify shitty behavior, and they are still making more of them. Seriously, why are we so concerned about be "cancelled" all of a sudden? What about "getting into trouble" or "did an awful thing"?


Raist14

No


[deleted]

No. Not at all


RaohMadeMeDoIt

Nah. I find it empowering to overcome my anxiety one day at a time


[deleted]

When I was young I was the nerd, that didn’t do sports and had a hard time dealing with activities that required physical discomfort. I wish I had been pushed harder when I was younger and explained why these things were valuable, important. The idea that everyone else was doing them didn’t make sense. Today at 40 I constantly push myself to do the hard and difficult things. I’ve ramped this up over the past 20 years. Today I went for a hike with weighted pack in 100 degree heat for example. I excel in a martially oriented sport. I’m also the guy that’s willing to work 14 hours a day 7 days a week when necessary to accomplish a goal. I lead people, and I am in charge effectively when I need to be. I have the respect of my peers in my sport and industry. I never thought growing up that I would feel more masculine than a broad swathe of the male population, but in current year I certainly do. Compared to the men that can’t hack it, can’t get the job done, and are mentally defeated far too easily I feel very masculine. I’ve endured struggles, bad circumstances, and bad luck and kept moving forward when a lot of other people would have broken. I’ve done all this with an inherent disadvantage of being neurodivergent. To me being masculine means you keep moving forward bettering yourself and fulfilling your obligations and responsibilities despite what the world throws at you.


[deleted]

I think being emotionally confident and secure about yourself, no matter how you may present, is the manliest thing ever. It's when you are unable to do things because of perceived gender roles that your insecurity really shows, and nothing says unmanly like insecurity. If someone kept asking "Hey I'm manly, right? You sure? I'm really manly, right? Do you think I'm manly?" and keeps needing reassurance, does that sound manly to you? It takes a lot of courage to act like yourself. Most people act like how they feel other people feel they should act like.


Lao_Shan_Lung

Not the slightest, Aspergers is the sole essence of the male mindset. Cold, analytical, logical, and stripped of a sense of humour.


[deleted]

Neurotypical here. I come here for the refreshing, objective thought provoking comments *and* the sense of humor. The truth is often very funny when stated dryly.


stratburst

Ya that’s how I kinda feel. Never really thought about any of this…Weird though I never really focus on any specific traits regarding myself or others. I just exist as who I am and evaluate other ppl based on the information they share and if they interact nicely or are an asshole regardless of gender, race, religion, occupation, etc. I feel almost blind to those aspects of a human and I usually just feel like a foreign or alien brain/mind in a temporary meat suit, which I care for and maintain like you would a vehicle making sure it’s optimized and running at a proficient level for longevity and functionality. Honestly I have never even felt like I’ve gotten to a point of feeling fully Human to start with. I have a wife, raise kids, perform well in my career and have always been interested in and practice in atypical sports I suppose; i.e. distance running, rock climbing, cycling, Jiu-jitsu, Muay Thai, swimming. Hm, I suppose mostly stuff you do on your own in a lot of ways. Females have usually perceived me as attractive, a little rough, maybe “stoic” from certain ASD traits, and “mysterious” which they claim intrigued them enough to get involved and try to “figure me out”. I’m in my 30’s now, I’ve always naturally gravitated to drinking beer and whisky because it’s delicious and provides some sedative and relaxant properties for generalized anxiety, social interaction, etc. Now I’ve also found myself interested in doing yard-work because it’s become just another interest/hobby to study, focus on and perfect. So I suppose from the outside seeing a fit dude climbing a mountain, hitting a punching bag and drinking beer and working in the lawn may appear to correspond to some of the accepted “masculine” traits in some cultures. I do however feel like I’ve had a good sense of humor, being that people, and my wife especially often laugh a lot at my jokes. However my sense of humor is quite abstract, dark and morbid most of the time so I have to gauge my crowd carefully. I’m positive my sense of humor is basically another coping mechanism developed secondary to my career which provides unending comically morbid material to analyze.


Cybermagetx

No. Never once


Caplays_X

Not necessarily, I just don't really care about that so that may reflect in allistics viewing me as less "manly" by their definition than they might expect of me


GraceOfEscanor

Meh I’m neutral but that’s probably just from the lack of understanding and caring of social norms etc


New-Understanding930

No. I’m completely comfortable with my weirdness. I’ve been married for 20 years, so if someone wants to call me names, they can do whatever. If you like yourself, it doesn’t matter what anyone else thinks.


AncientGreekHistory

>I’m completely comfortable with my weirdness. I'd join that club.


New-Understanding930

Welcome. It’s fucking weird in here.


JustRoboCop

yes, but i definitely do not mind


Godlike1972

No. Like not at all.


[deleted]

Not at all.


piggy556smeg

If anything I think it adds to it


darwinianissue

I mean I don’t exactly want to be a hyper masculine man in the first place so I can’t really say I’m concerned. Additionally I feel it would be hard to say that Asperger’s takes away masculinity given there is no control by which to compare to. You are the only you that exists


Dummkopf_Idiot

I'm not very masculine but not because of autism.


MistyCD

The behaviors linked to autism often give a less masculine feeling of the stereotypical "ideal man". Insecurity is common in social matters, many of us do not have the "courage" to speak and in some cases even mutism, there are those who have age regression, children's hobbies, the unemployment rate is very high and many of us have a certain degree of dependence on our parents... It will depend on who, of course, but on average yes. Besides that we have much more tendency to be NB and even transition, there are studies that indicate that some parts of the brain have a lot to do with this, look: https://www.reddit.com/r/autismgirls/comments/vstt95/how\_asd\_impacts\_gender\_identity\_female\_asd/ In my case I had total androgynous appearance as a child and behaviors linked to the opposite sex, I also feel some euphoria imagining myself as a woman without having a strong dysphoria. Besides, I have the bone density and hands of a woman among other things. I am not particularly manly, no, nor do I dislike it, but my problems and peculiarities have affected my singleness.


hawkeyepitts

I’m a very masculine guy. But in a independent stoic kind of way. I’m not a sports bro who’s always hanging with my homies, but it’s not like there’s one definition of what a masculine guy looks like. You can be equally masculine as a loner type just as much as you can as a frat bro. Sometimes I do feel left out of social situations with other guys, but it’s not because I’m feminine in any way. It’s simply because I’m anti-social.


JeffMosby472

Tbh I think this has mostly worked in my favor, but I’m not interested in super cishet women so I never felt the need to “be a man” in whatever warped sense


LustyFreaker

i dont care about the concept of masculinity at all. always considered myself very feminine.


fma_nobody

I actually think it helped me just internalize that the entire concept of masculity is made up and i should just try to present myself as i want to be.


Zwartekop

No.


GorillaFetish

Nope. Never even thought of it like that until I saw this question


0-Drag0n0

I don't know or care, though I do suspect it contributes at least to the not caring part.


Spacecats1

My bi-sexuality takes away from my masculinity but idgaf


-basedonatruestory-

No - but even if it did I’m not sure I’d care.


Ballistic-Autistic

No


Cognitive_Spoon

I mean, I'm NB and I think that my identity likely has some crossover with being Neurodivergent. I don't like to chock my entire gender identity up to autism, though. Autigender feels too specific to be valid, for me personally.


AspiPokemonTrainer

It’s a value judgment on how valuable you are in the eyes of society regarding things high testosterone people tend to be good at. It’s not something you decide. So why worry about it unless your willing to work on yourself.


TheRealKaneki

No. I don’t think about masculinity, I just like to be me.


ImTheTrueFireStarter

Not at all


Fun_Elderberry_855

Nope.


Geminii27

What? Fuck no.


nuffinthegreat

Nope


ScarredAutisticChild

Nah, I’m not very masculine though, at least not by conventional standards.


armyfreak42

Not really no.


DolmioDaddy

Not at all 🤷🏻‍♂️


Gardensnake314159

Yeah, I guess. It definitely takes away my fear of, and desire to be perceived as masculine.


jaobodam

No, Also i don’t really care about it all that much.


user3562378

🤣🤣🤣 I wouldn't know masculinity if it smacked me in the face.


auy55789

Fuck masculinity anyway it’s such a loosely goosey insecure bag of bullshit.. I’d much rather focus on being a supportive, ethical, and productive person. Don’t fall into it or you’ll end up weightlifting to the mirror in a corner while the rest of us have a good time.


Dizzy_Scifi

Don't give a fuck how masculine I am or people perceive me too be


3meopcpjoebiden

In a way, yeah, I feel like my social difficulties lead to me being pushed to the bottom of the dumb social hierarchies that get established in social groups (male or female or nonbinary or anybody tbh). I'm just slow to respond, and really in my own world. Seems to me that you can define masculinity however you want. Many people on either side of the aisle only acknowledge the superficial things, ie "guns and beer". But I've seen plenty of men obsessed with that stuff who aren't respected by other men at all, and plenty of 'sensitive' guys who get respect as a man or whatever. And a lot of what 'separates the men from the boys' could also 'separate the women from the girls' or the adults from the kids too. I had this coworker who was just like me on the surface. We were both skinny, sad nerds. But I tended to wear different masks around different people to try and relate to them, and he was the same person everywhere he went. He opted into the social game - he picked the biggest guy there, looked him dead in the eye, and slapped him in the face so that nobody bigger than him would ever try to mess with him. It worked. Meanwhile I opted out of the social game because it's pointless to me, I don't care. Partially because I just truly don't care, and partially because I just can't win at it. People loved him, I was tossed aside. I always thought of healthy masculinity as being kind, being reliable and trustworthy, pushing yourself towards growth, being unafraid to stand up against unjust and abusive people, understanding your limits and vulnerabilities, admitting when you're wrong, not engaging in things like drama, gossip and hype, avoiding flattery and empty words, being somebody who contributes and doesn't just take and consume.. These aren't really gendered things, and if I weren't a man, I'd probably still consider these attributes things to strive towards. At the same time, the people I look up to as 'real men', who live by these things, don't take themselves so seriously either - they don't worship these things like Jordan Peterson incels. But maybe I've got it all wrong. Not trying to be fake-humble, which a lot of men do when trying to 'be real men' and which I've fallen into the trap of before. I just feel like I don't know anything anymore.


Animal_Flossing

It's a moot point - masculinity and femininity are unconstructive cultural concepts. I value my ability to confound gender stereotypes far higher than my ability to happen to converge with some of them. That's not to be said that I don't occasionally feel self-conscious about whether I'm 'masculine' enough, but at those times I always know deep down that my mistake isn't *not being masculine enough* \- it's *thinking that masculinity exists in the first place*.


sQueezedhe

Gender is a construct. No need to worry about it.


KaliMaxwell89

I’m gay so this topic seems to come up a lot with other gay men masculinity, and I personally consider myself masculine and not very feminine even though I’m autistic and have a stereotypical gay voice if that means anything .


Aiki_Nudes

I’ve come to the point where I really try and emphasize becoming more traditionally masculine by going to the gym, making sure I’m competent at my job and be less afraid of things such as mice or spiders or whatnot. It’s helped me a great deal in regards to handling my social anxiety.


Tricky-Row-9699

No, why the fuck would I? All you’re doing if you’re that worried about being “the man in the room” is showing how mentally weak you are. Hell, not only do I think Asperger’s doesn’t detract from my masculinity, I *know* I’m more competent and intelligent than anyone who believes it does.


freedmenspatrol

I feel like traditional masculinity is toxic bullshit and I'd be delighted if it vanished from the earth, tbh.


Cut-Unique

Nah, if anything it makes us seem more "manly". You see, people tend to think that Aspies don't have feelings/emotions, and that showing any feeling/emotion (other than anger of course) means you're not a "real man". So Aspies are about as manly as one can get. And yes, I'm being sarcastic. But on a serious note, no I don't think it takes away from one's masculinity. In fact I don't think it has any effect on it either way.


Romofan1973

Yep. Being a man is a performance. It's about doing certain things in certain ways at certain times. I am no good at any of that. I do things my weird way on my skewed schedule.


_GinNJuice_

No, because I'm still better looking, better in sport, and more intelligent. If others are so much more masculine, why is my autistic ass more masculine than them, despite my eccentric self? What makes someone masculine? Not being able to deal with their feelings and liking stereotypical "men" stuff?


furry9000

It takes away from my need to be super masculine. I don’t see or feel the need


Subtle_Demise

To an extent yeah


Piskoro

I personally am starting to develop an opinion that the differentiation of anything biologically non-essential by gender is just kind of stupid, post-genderism as an ideology genuinely is appealing to me, even if I recognize it’s as realistic as Marx’s communism working. As for the question, maybe, I never quite developed a taste for gender norms and have my hair down to my belly button level, have a distaste for alcohol, and generally don’t think of myself that way


Wormcowb0y

Masculinity is a lie, don’t fall for it /hj


BiatchLasagne

Well I was born male but I think I'm genderfluid? Apparently us aspies may perceive ourselves differently when it comes to societal gender norms.


BorealusTheBear

I have hormonal issues due to a blood disorder along side being autistic. In addition to being a late bloomer I have almost no body hair, I have had girlfriends that had more hair on their arms than I had on my legs. At 33 I have no chest hair and struggle to grow a beard. I am not really aggressive outside of meltdowns despite my resting fuckoff face, I have no interest in sports or hunting, or fishing or any of the other 'manly' stuff people seem to associate with masculinity. I am not 'one of the boys' or 'one of the girls', I am more 'one of the leave me alone I would rather be doing something else, thank yous', and people constantly think I am gay as if somehow only gay men are less masculine than straight men. It is all stereotypical nonsense. I had to get over the fact that I was not like other people ages before my diagnosis was revealed to me, honestly the moment high school ended and I had to go out into the real world I realised very few people I interacted with gave a damn, it was all childish crap. I do, however, find the majority of male masculinity as it is in our society to be needlessly toxic, violent, and competitive for no reason at all. Even in my 30s I have noticed that in gatherings men will compete with each other for no reason, I much prefer listening to women, although the older you get a lot of their conversations just turn into talk about children which I find just as tedious as sports and bragging about promotions or new cars or getting upset because someone looked at someone else's partner. I honestly couldn't care less about masculinity or what the unwashed masses think it should be. People are really stupid when it comes to sexuality and gender, all I want to do is be me and do the things I want to do. Asperger's has probably helped me to look past this more than anything else, if there is anything that takes away from your masculinity it is other people.


tjoolder

it's just that I can't mask lol, so yes, probably.


Hoopie41

You are good enough. You belong. Autism doesn't affect how you are existing right now. You are in controll of your interiority. Take charge! Its a quality not just of people, but of life on this planet. It takes some waking up to be able to embrace your nature., but you deserve to mature and see.


tharrison4815

Well I don't feel masculine if that's what you mean. I don't know if I'd say it takes it away though. I associate masculinity with negative things. I do present as male though and I don't feel like I'm female or anything.


AffectionateHand2525

This is a stupid post. You are either born with a good pp or a bad pp, blame your parents because what they eat dictates what your outcome in life will be.


OldLevermonkey

Due to my tendency to introspection and my struggles to understand myself, I am now very comfortable with my masculinity and my sexuality. I don't feel that I need to prove anything to anyone. In answer to your question, autism has not taken anything away from my masculinity.


ExistingCleric0

I'm a very sensitive person, but I don't think ASD had anything to do with that. "Masculinity" is a meme anyway - it's just doing what you want to (that's legal, respectful, etc.) without letting other people dictate your actions and beliefs.


Electrical_Access604

Autism has been called "hyper masculin brain" by some researchers. So the answer is no. It rather enhances my masculinity. I would argue that seeing the world in an organized, rational, analytical manner is the most masculine thing you can do and most men are too feminine just by being neurotypical.


witchymitolonea

My son is 18 and he doesnt care about being a man or sexual attraction for nobody, he even ask me if he is asexual, but I told him just to be happy and dont care what others say about him, he is just different in a good way and if he is happy with his life Im happy too.


Vlasow

At 29 I'm going through what normally developing guys do at their late teens to early twenties. My emotional regulation issues (lack of success dealing with anxiety, shame, anger, bitterness, resentment), attention issues, skinny build, abstract interests and not knowing how to properly escalate with women make me mostly unfuckable. Working on it all, sacrificing opportunities to capitalize on what I'm actually good at, software engineering. It's pretty tiring and grim at times, but luckily I have a support network. Living in a cheap part of the world doing remote work, going to the gym, getting psychotherapy and attending poker/drinking nights, asking girls out with little success. Dream of getting to a level when there is some girl who enjoys being fucked by me, isn't manipulative and doesn't look repulsive. Still a lot of work left to get to that level, that honestly makes me feel repulsed by myself which doesn't help. It is tiring to experience fuckups, and that exaggerated pain of constant failure and related fears is what takes away my masculinity the most, and the only way to get over it is to fuck up a lot. I don't know how I could ever manage that if I lived in US.


NewAccount4Friday

No, but I think a lot of other men suck. They are so boring with their sports. We should take their women.


AccountantSea7681

I did feel this a bit as a kid, since I was NOT typical. But now I feel I am way more masculine than most other males out there. I am stronger, more built, healthier. I am not particularly interested in "boring" male stuff like sports. Or getting wasted. But I do what literally defines humankind, particularly the male of the species. Distinguishes us, sets us apart from our fellow creatures. Some women can do it, but not near as well as men. Sorry; as in many things, the male distribution of certain traits is much heavier tailed than the female distribution. I tell young people with Asperger's that this is our world, the NTs just live in it.


FukudaSan007

My masculinity has definitely been judged because I don't know how to fix stuff. Some stereotypes never die. I wouldn't judge a woman's femininity because she didn't know how to cook.


stressed_teddy

Sometimes when I'm over stimulated I won't want sex, and while my partner understands, I do feel "less of a man" because I don't want sex


AncientGreekHistory

A rather silly thing to worry about, and there really isn't a well-defined meaning for that anyway.


kerghan41

I'm a bigger guy in general at 6'4. In high school I was terrible at sports (co-ordination) and barely said a word to anyone. Was picked on without relent. To relieve some of this I started bodybuilding. It was JUST me and the weights. Didn't have to interact with anyone. Over time I gained 50 pounds and most of the bullying stopped... but now people were scared of me because I was really big and akward. Good times? I guess...


temujin1976

Not sure I really appreciate what masculinity is. It doesn't matter to me at all. Apparently I can be quite camp but I'm also a hulking great bear of a person who likes sports. Just me. Only really think about being male if it comes up. Hence I have no worries about liking cute stuff and joining in conversation usually meant for girls too.


Soap_Mctavish101

Yeah. I do.


Ascension501

Bro I’m so awkward, and I’ve i y ever really dated ppl who were A- as awkward as I am(this is great this is the goal, and I’m now more attracted to these ppl bc they get it and we can be weirdos together) and B- ppl who find me being weird is cute, I didn’t like this as much, they admitted they tuned me out when I went on talks about my special interest, and that really hurt cause it was something important to me.


Kuroi-Loki

I would recommend you the book of Liz Plank "For the love of men". The topic is on toxic masculinity and there are many testimonials of different man. Some of them have disabilities and they cannot enter in "the standard of masculinity". It don't talk about autism if I remember well but I think it's pertinent. My boyfriend as autism and I think that the expectation of being a man is really hurtful for him. He doesn't need to be strong all the time. I love all side of his personality, especially the sensitive side. (My first language is french, so sorry in advance for the errors.)


Helpful_Classroom204

Absolutely. My ability to be a leader is stifled. People tend to not want to follow the weird kid. My emotional maturity is weakened. My mindfulness is weakened. My ability to do everyday tasks is weakened. I walk weirder. I’m more anxious. These are all things that make you manly.


Robot_goldfish

No. Masculinity as a measure of someone's value or place in society is nonsense.


boomboxspence

Yes because im shy and girls don't like me


boomboxspence

The most cool guys and manly guys have lots of girls who like them and more female validation is more of a man and I have none


ObreroJimenez

I find it very limiting to define my entire self around one or two concepts.


Karkava

Honestly, I'm never really attached to my masculinity. I have the beard and the headline, but that's not how I see myself on the inside.


TheStumblingWolf

I grew up with a single mom so I used to not be masculine at all. I've become more masculine via self improvement etc. So no.


Tyrodos999

Absolutely not. Following my very own interpretation of how a man should be, I am the manliest man there ist. I mean, I am who I am because that is the person I want to be. So I meet per Definition the requirements for being a man, following my own definition, perfectly. And in the end, that is what counts. That you are the person you want to be. Who cares if you are, what others think what a „real man“ should be?