Bailo was waaay behind chow but she's creeping up. Why do people care who Tory supports? He wasn't that great as a mayor.
By - twicescorned21
Tory won his election with 62% of the vote just a year ago. Despite his resignation there is still a segment of the population that liked him
> Tory won his election with 62% of the vote just a year ago. Despite his resignation there is still a segment of the population that liked him
This is in many ways an understatement. Tory *crushed* his three elections. I think only Rob Ford took a larger share of the vote. (Edit: thanks u/goodfella-11 David Miller also took more in 2006).
His voice matters because people generally liked the job he was doing. Not ALL people - before the comments start… but one cannot argue with him being soundly elected three times. The results speak.
So when the mayor the overwhelming majority of voters wanted six months ago resigns, for what many of his supporters see as personal business, they then look to see how his legacy/administration/approach can be continued.
Reddit is in no way representative of the entirety of Toronto. Toronto politics usually swings like a pendulum from left to right, and not far from the centre.
Note: this is not meant as an editorial or commentary on any one politician. Though I’m sure the comments will treat it as one. The question was why so many people care about Tory’s endorsement.
>I think only Rob Ford took a larger share of the vote.
I know this was an offhand comment, but I remember how often Rob bragged about winning by the largest margin in history.
Some may also remember that he didn't often tell the truth :) It was a smaller margin than the previous mayor (David Miller) won by.
He did win easily(!), but it was with 47% of the vote.
[2010 Toronto mayoral election](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_Toronto_mayoral_election)
Yeah, if you're surprised that people supported Tory you need to spend more time off r/toronto.
Also, he needs to be careful endorsing Bailao.
If he endorsed her too quickly or too strongly then rumors would start that Anna Bailao was the blackmailer or a woman he slept with too.
Either could have shattered her chances
> was there a poll out there that said people wanted him back as mayor even after he quit?
if he ran in this election he would win, and it wouldn't be close either
yeah but toronto basically always elects incumbents, that doesn't mean too much
That's most places, especially at the municipal level.
That "segment" is actually the majority lol. People on here need to step out of the bubbles the Toronto subs have become and get some perspective.
They don’t care about vanilla ice cream or white bread. These people care about literally one thing and that is keeping property taxes low.
White bread is shit, and vanilla gets a bad rap.
"Ice ice baby"....yea thats bad.
More like you gotta break some Greggs to make a Tomlette
if it is to be said, so it be, so it shall
More like cheese pizza
Cheese pizza is actually the bomb though
Kevin McCallister agrees
Tory was so popular, so clearly going to win the previous election, that literally zero serious candidates ran against him. There was no chance anyone else would win from the moment he said he was running for re-election. The only other candidates were activist candidates; no one with real political aspirations ran because it would be a sure L on their record.
Because Reddit is not a good representation of the electorate. Reddit heavily skews younger and left whereas Toronto electorate is actually more center. More like fiscally conservative but socially liberal
Reddit is one of the worst barometers for political predictions simply because the upvote/downvote system can be easily exploited to push particular views.
Ah yes, the Gil propaganda last year only to completely turn on him comes to mind.
>Reddit is one of the worst barometers for political predictions simply because the subs moderators can wildly push their own political leanings removing people and posts they don't agree with or find controversial.
And let’s not forget, younger people tend to vote less so on Election Day (the only poll that matters). It’s that older more liberal / conservative that actually casts a ballot.
This is probably the correct answer.
Exactly. I remember when they thought that urban planner Gil had a chance. The viewpoints here are so myopic.
Absolutely. I mean, if this sub was representative Doug Ford would be polling in the negatives instead of walloping the other parties.
lots of people on here supported him, sure, but very few people thought he had a chance of actually winning LOL
The Toronto subs are also super small in terms of general users and especially active users when compared to the millions of people living in the GTA.
Reddit is an Echo chamber with the mods of places like r/Toronto controlling the narrative along with a handful of the same people posting daily (that may or may not be mod alt accounts)
I wouldn't even say centre, Toronto has always been a puritan Conservative city. Being politically centre just means preserving the status quo, and Toronto has been a Conservative city for 13 years.
All the problems in Toronto will always be, at the end of the day, a problem created by Toronto residents and those they choose to elect through voting or just abstaining from voting. Toronto is not a very ambitious or progressive city at the end of the day. Being "not a bigot" is one facet of being progressive, but generally the city will default back to its 1960s-1980s state when push comes to shove
Toronto's mediocrity is rooted in its people at the end of the day, and Tory is their shining idol of milquetoast Conservatism
> and Toronto has been a Conservative city for 13 years.
Rob Ford won because the two progressives split the vote.
Exactly this. Also something to blow Reddit's mind: The people who vote Liberal also vote against Chow. These are the people who already own homes and do not want Chow because she already said she will raise property taxes.
Liberal here, voted for Chow. Anecdotal, but a lot of liberal family and friends also voted for Chow.
Cool, and with first past the post, a vote for Matlow is a vote Bailao..
we all make choices.
/edit, to clarify, Chow isn't my first choice either. If i could pick the mayor.. but so far, nobody has asked me to assign someone
With two candidates holding over 65% of the polls. Its a pretty safe bet that every vote is either for one of them, or being denied to one of them.
I'm not arguing his worthiness.. Id be thrilled if Matlow or a couple others came out of nowhere and won.. We will see tomorrow one way or the other.
Just for heavens sake, dont let it be Fuery or Saunders heh
not a hot take, and you are absolutely right. no one is owed a vote.
But voting strategically is also a thing.
i only speak for myself when i say i wouldn't risk my vote on a longshot, and then watch Bailao win by 3%
Im sincerely not arguing with you, just offering a different perspective. My original reply was more a commentary on the failings of first past the post systems, than any thing else...
Matlow was much more detailed, I agree. I would have gladly given him my vote, but I still voted for Chow as I knew it would be a tight race between her and whoever comes next.
Uugh. I hate that you're probably correct. They took polls tho, those were more likely older people who actually answer phones, so..
This is like stats 101 (well, not 101 because it’s high school stats). Not picking on you, but this gets repeated a lot and it’s not the case - the pollsters create a representative sample. If older people are more likely to answer (source?) then they would simply fill that cohort quicker, they wouldn’t just abandon the other demographics.
I feel like they are both fiscally conservative and socially conservative. 😷😷🤢
But the polls aren’t just who Reddit is voting for
Tory if he run against Chow even after the scandal would beat her handily.
He is like a very safe choice to suburban people.
He's got a level of popularity. He was a generally bland and non-offensive individual that struck a lot of people are reasonable. BTW what you see on the internet for the terminally online doesn't reflect the wider public. People who hate him are very passionate about their dislike of him, most others are luke warm
I wouldn't be shocked that his endorsement is slowly kicking in with the percentage of the public who voted for him in the past and have not been all that tuned int until now. So once they realize its time to vote, they look in the usual places for info and find "Oh Tory endorsed Tory Jr. Tory wasn't that bad, how terrible can Tory Jr. be?"
Your point about terminally online people needs to be stickied on every Canada, Ontario and Toronto-based subreddit. People on these subs are a very small minority of the opinions in the province/city, and their viewpoints really do not reflect that of the population as a whole. Never forget that Reddit subs are giant echo chambers.
The Reddit demographic is generally younger, heavily left-leaning and anti-capitalist. This is not really reflective of the population of the city and province, and even less so when it comes to Canada as an entity.
If Tory ran in this election he would absolutely *destroy* every other candidate
Yeah, I posted that I hoped Chow wouldn't win and got downvoted to oblivion. Reddit is a massive left wing echo chamber.
I know we have apocalypse level rain. But don't forget to vote!!
What rain? The sun is shining here. At least it was an hour or so ago.
It's the undecided voters. They haven't a clue what he's done in the past eight years and unless it's not a disaster that makes the news, like anything Rob Ford did, Tory is just a kick in a certain direction they didn't know where to go.
If Tory ran in this election he would win in a landslide so his opinion would have some influence
Tory is still immensely popular, particularly with a demographic that has high turnout.
Homeowners are listening to the guy that didn't raise property taxes ever
Property taxes have increased a lot since tory came in because they are tied to home value. At least this is my understand
They are based on MPAC value which is much lower than market value.
Maybe MPAC should reassess then. My neighbourhood has always had steady prices and I pay nearly double the annual property tax than similar or higher (market) priced properties in the east end. Leslieville homes are downright cheap for property tax, semis and detached homes paying less than $4000 a year is ridiculous.
You don’t understand how property taxes work. Hint: an increased assessment can mean you pay more tax, the same tax, or even less tax. Your research will tell you why.
One of these ill get somethig right
That's not how property taxes work in Toronto. House value sets the percentage of the total, city-wide, tax pie that you have to pay. So if your house goes up in value compared to everyone else in the city then you could pay more taxes. You could also pay more tax even if your assessed value goes down if the City chose to raise its tax requirements to a point that it offsets the decrease in MPAC assessment. So while house value have indeed increased a lot, it's why tax levels haven't increased at the same rate, on average, for homeowners.
Thank you for your explanation. I didn't know that
lol the municipal assessments are not super frequent for most people and the tax rate has lagged behind the rate of inflation for a decade.
People on average are paying less as a percentage of their home value than 10 year ago. And home prices and rent are skyrocketing.
He did raise them as they do go up every year with the city budget, but he always kept it under the rate of inflation. which is good for homeowners but bad for city services.
A sense of continuity.
Tory prioritized keeping property taxes low even as the long-term effects of underinvestment have become increasingly evident.
Lots of property owning voters are perfectly fine with that.
A lot of people thought he was doing an okay-ish job (remember, he won by a pretty significant landslide just last year) so if they want more of the same okay-ish do-nothing mayor, then his endorsement counts.
Must have really stung for Bradford to not get his old boss' stamp of approval.
He didn’t get the endorsement because people don’t like him. It would be a waste of political capital.
He thought he was the heir to the Tory right-of-middle vote, but didn't realize people noticed when he said and did very opposite things.
And then he ran a kookoobananas campaign where he tried to portray himself as both progressive cyclist and conservative law-and-order, with some gaffes along the way (e.g. drinking in parks and then doing a bit driving in traffic later that same day; and *repeatedly* not swallowing a bite of a Jamaican patty)
Everything said here plus name recognition.
Chow is leading for basically 2 reasons - she's progressive and the progressive bloc of voters want something that isn't Ford or Tory. But more importantly, she was the most recognized name in the pool.
Bailão registered mentally as "didn't she do something bad once?" A look into her platform and voting record comes back as "Tory light", but realistically, most people aren't even doing that level of research. But when your phone rings and the voice is "Hi, this is John Tory calling in support of Ana Bailão..." you now have name recognition attached.
I DO care that I’m getting those damn Tory and Ford robocalls on election day. That should not be allowed. Sick of these calls.
Should be illegal on election day
Those who care about Tory's endorsement do so because they care who can beat Chow.
The election comes down to one of three choices: Who do I want to see as mayor; who can best stop who I do not want to see as mayor; who can make the biggest "statement" or "protest" vote.
A lot of closet conservatives are in Toronto. They just don’t flaunt it. They want to keep their property taxes down. That’s why Tory was popular and that’s what they want out of Bailo
Tory would be elected if he ran again, so of course those who would have voted for him are interested in the candidate he endorses
Tory got rid of tent cities in parks and people liked that. Some are worried a Chow type mayor will let that go rampant again.
>Tory got rid of tent cities in parks
No he didn't, they just moved. I know where there's multiple tents in parks still.
No, she's going to come with better long term solutions to that. She doesn't want homeless people living in tents either. She will try to fix the problem.
The solution will attract more people from other municipalities until the solution is no longer a solution.
That's assuming there's even a short-term solution in the first place. This is a bigger than toronto problem and will take more than a mayor to fix. With Ford as premier and Chow as mayor, I have no faith in any form of collaborative effort happening.
She can't fix that with property taxes.
The mental health component of homelessness requires further funding from provincial govt
The refugee crisis leaving them in shelters and hotels needs further funding from federal govt.
Lack of housing starts and require minimum sizes for condos is something municipal govt can take care of to create viable homes.
The issue needs a multilevel approach though. You listed interventions from all levels of gov and that’s literally what is needed for change.
If you think a municipal only solution is the answer then that's incredibly naive. Assuming she has a solution which is myopic to just Toronto, all that would do is create a Seattle-esque situation where even more homeless people would decide to come to or be dumped to Toronto until the solution is no longer a solution.
The homelessness/ drug addiction issue is a federal and provincial issue first, Toronto just happens to reflect the issue most vividly since the province pretty much revolves around it
In general Toronto mayors tend to get popular after their first term. If you just flick through the Toronto election wikipedia pages you’ll see a lot of mayors rising in popular vote after their first term.
Whoever wins today will probably experience something similar. If this historical trend continues, and if Olivia Chow wins, she very well could be leaving 2-3 terms from now with 60+% popularity.
I don't think people care what Tory thinks, they just don't want chow to win and Bailao is the best chance of beating her.
The point is that people are realizing they don’t want Olivia Chow to win, and in the last week they are quickly pooling their support around the closest alternative. I’ll use myself as an example - I want Josh Matlow to win, but there’s zero chance of him winning - and Bailao is a poor compromise but she’ll be better than the Chow disaster.
How would Chow be a disaster when she and Matlow are aligned on most issues? Just seems odd given Bailao and Matlow fundamentally disagree on every key issue and he agrees with Chow on those issues. I could see it if she was some strong mayor extremist but her entire pitch is being a consensus builder and she has decades of doing that including when she was at city hall.
I voted for Olivia Chow. Bailao is better than Doug's guy getting in.
I was for matlow and went for chow… Ana bailao is a drunk driver no thanks
Did you miss the part where Tory would be elected again if he ran? So it makes sense that the candidate he endorses gets a huge boost. Toronto is a status quo city, they don’t want anything to change
True, toronto doesn't want to have to bother thinking about who they would vote in. That would require that they actually thought about things and not just complain about them.
I DON’T WANT ANYMORE TENT CITIES
Because despite what the little Reddit exochamber wants to pretend, almost everyone liked Tory, and liked the way he ran the city. (He won a third term with 62% vote only 12 mths ago. Vs Chow who at best could would win with 30% ish).
He easily won every mayoral election. And he’d even still easily win this one if he entered this afternoon.
He was a fiscally responsible and very well balanced city mayor.
Looking at who’s running now, oh boy, are we gonna miss him.
Is it “fiscally responsible” to hold property taxes low while depriving services of funding? How frequently are we told the city is bankrupt?
Whatever complaints people have about the TTC and crime and a lack of housing and other supports - did they not crop up and become what they are now during Tory’s time, which is effectively still what we’re in until a new Mayor is in place?
Assuming (a big assumption until results come in) that Chow wins, I feel like we’re going to see people blaming her for the state of things semi-immediately, even though it was obviously Tory and Co. who got us here on the City level (acknowledging that there’s a lot of criticism to go to other levels of gov’t, and global crises like COVID).
I'm curious -- from your perspective, what does "fiscally responsible" mean and how would you say Tory achieved that?
He was fine. He was a nice, boring responsibe mayor. But it's going to be difficult to get what the city actually needs fixed going forward if we don't have someone who's willing to go against Doug and actually make changes happen.
The sheep need some herding to figure out where they should go.
\>> He wasn't that great as a mayor.
a lot of people disagree
If Tory ran for mayor again he'd win.
Part of her rise is the anyone but chow vote consolidating. Same with Chow's increases.
People like Tory. Part of me believes that had Rob Ford not gotten cancer he would've beaten Tory by a little. Doug is a businessman first but Rob was the first mayor I saw in person (during FordFest in Scarborough) and I think the future mayor has to carry on that legacy of being approachable (within limits).
Why are all these posts so Chow-centric? C'mon, it's obvious. There are so many candidates but it's always Chow. Tory's last-minute endorsement is wack AF as he is.
Bailao is a drunk driver too, I can’t vote for that…
Bailo's campaign seems to rely on her somehow convincing the Fed/Prov govt to shoulder a bunch of Toronto's debts... So when they obviously tell her no, what's left of her campaign 🤷
Because nobody seems to be able to think for themselves, it’s one big circle jerk of media support. Half the candidates are running on the platform of “I’m not Olivia Chow”. And Chow is running on the platform of, “I’m not John Tory”. This city is a joke when it comes to politics. Ford will shit on whoever’s elected anyways.
>this ~~city~~ planet
Everyone just rooting for their "tribe". People unable to make their own decisions.
I'm glad he endorsed her. It further solidifies my decision not to vote for her.
Do they? Have you spoken to every voter?
The property owners support him by default because he kept property taxes absurdly low. Bailao was a yes-man for Tory. Therefore, they see his endorsement of her and assume she's going to keep the property tax low. They're single-issue voters.
He didn't tax the crap out of us or attempt to legalize all drugs. That's the difference.
Tory was a great Mayor. From what I've seen the only ones who think Tory was a bad Mayor are the redditors and people on Twitter. Hardly anybody irl thought Tory was a bad mayor.
John Tory was popular as he really had no strongly held opinions on anything. Chow is known for being nearly militantly Left. Her main strength is name recognition thanks to her more moderate deceased husband, Jack Layton.
Many people are looking for an anyone but Chow candidate that had a good chance of success. By naming Bailo, Tory gave people an alternative.
When voting, especially young voters who may have never known, Olivia Chow & Jack Layton illegally lived in subsidized housing for years, ripping off taxpayers while simultaneously taking a family unit people in genuine need could have used. Yes, eventually they paid back the difference, but only after they were caught. Chow is quite happy to slurp from the public trough.
> Olivia Chow & Jack Layton illegally lived in subsidized housing for years, ripping off taxpayers while simultaneously taking a family unit people in genuine need could have used
i really have to laugh, not only is this not even true, it also happened over 30 years ago...
[”This immediately puts to rest several myths and misunderstandings about Layton and Chow’s time at Hazelburn: they did not occupy a low-income unit at Hazelburn; their occupancy of a market-value unit did not have any effect on the availability of low-income units in their building or elsewhere in the co-op sector; and they were not inappropriately housed as, theoretically, one could be as rich as John Tory or Rob Ford and still be eligible to live in a market-value unit in a Section 95 co-op.”](https://web.archive.org/web/20170328131928/https://torontoist.com/2014/03/did-jack-layton-and-olivia-chow-live-in-subsidized-housing/)
meanwhile John Tory took $100k/year from the Rogers corporation and slept with an employee while taking her on tax-payer funded trips... Rob Ford used to deal hash and literally smoked crack in office, also violated a conflict of interest law...
$800/month. Layton upped his payment $350 just before getting Toronto Star published. Scammers. https://www.huffpost.com/archive/ca/entry/did-olivia-chow-really-live-in-subsidized-housing-as-her-opponen_n_4958628/amp
Chow will be a mistake.
I'm just glad Mr. Tory was wearing pants when he delivered his helpful advice.
If only he wore his pants when he was at work.
Because he knows what it means to be mayor and what it takes to run this city.
As such he knows who is most qualified to be the next mayor. So he carries weight with the voters in Toronto.
I find it most interesting to note that he did not endorse Mark Saunders.
Helped me decide who NOT to vote for
My parents love Tory. When I ask them which of his policies they agree with, or what he’s done, they can’t answer. Boomers just trust him for some reason I think because he’s polite and good at public speaking.
Because they're sheep who can't think for themselves.
Reflects rather poorly on the city that they care who the adulterer supports and can't think for themselves. Would be different if Bailao's support had always been high.
Tory’s “endorsement” can go fcuk himself. He himself was alright, even voted for him.
Name recognition. No one knew who to vote for before. People know Tory’s name and liked him enough to just go along with who he endorses.
I think people don't want anybody endorsing anyone. Residents should be voting based on the candidate's campaign promises, and how much of their promises they think the candidate will actually act on after being elected.
However, having a famous politician, athlete, businessperson, etc endorse a candidate can seriously change the minds of voters who like that famous person. This can cause a voter to vote for candidate X just because some famous person that they like decided to endorse candidate X, even though the voter was originally planning on voting for candidate Y.
These famous people endorse candidates because they will most likely benefit from that candidate winning. The voter who voted for the same candidate because of the endorsement will not get anything.
A voter can be struggling with a specific problem. Let's say candidate Y is the only candidate promising to fix that problem so the voter plans on voting for candidate Y. But wait! the voter is a huge fan of Tory and saw Tory endorse candidate X, so the voter now decides to vote for candidate X despite that candidate not having any plans to fix the problem that the voter is struggling with.
\*\*mandatory disclaimer: I live in mississauga and am not participating in this election in any way, and my knowledge on the candidates and their campaign promises is not too great.
I don't know if people care about his endorsement, but he was a popular, well-liked mayor.
It gave all the right one candidate to focus on. Before they were quite split between Saunders bailao and Furey. With his endorsement many people flipped off Saunders and Furey to Bailao.
Because they knew him and his tenure, so many voted because he made their decision with his endorsement.
We are a very lazy voting populace in this city.
It's politics. Marketing, near slander, criticizing one's opponents, and a host of other things are part of the package that goes along with politics the world over.
Tory has been a radio personality for decades and has a Fox News-like influence on a lot of older people who listen to Newstalk 1010 AM. People like my dad strongly identify with him and his views despite his incompetence at actually running the city.
That’s because Tory was an inoffensive centre right candidate that many middle aged functioning members of society from the suburbs liked.
In my business I have a lot of boomers as clients and they love Tory