By - fyodor_do
It’s not significantly worse. It’s a horizontal change. Big benefit of the 2020/2021 was the addition of pit zips. “Big” drawback was the change from Goretex pro to regular 3L goretex, lowering of hand warmer pockets that MAY interfere with hip belts. Super small detail that was removed is the inside pocket that indicated the series and model of the jacket.
I personally prefer the 2019, but I wouldn’t hate owning a 2020-2021 either. I like the higher pockets and goretex pro, but regular goretex 3L is just as good at being waterproof. I don’t think anyone can hate having pit zips either, but if someone CAN live without pit zips I’d 100% recommend the 2019 version.
The pit zips are so great! It was a great jacket when it was 18 degrees celcius and rained during my holiday :)
So the difference between the 3l and the pro is the abrasive resistance? So basically higher durability vs pit zips
Durability will be broadly similar.
They are both 3l gore-tex, but the pro has a slightly more breathable middle membrane and the inner backing material I believe is more durable(someone argued I was wrong here last time but never gave a source)
Arcteryx uses very good fabrics even on their regular goretex so it shouldn't be a huge issue.
To me it comes down to if you want pit zips or not. I own the old one and love it, but also wouldn't mind giving up the pro for the pit zips since that to me adds more breathability than a better membrane
The new LT is also about 1oz heavier.
Goretex Pro being a 100% eptfe membrane like eVent and neoshell will probably suffer from the same problem: Complete loss of breathability after wetout, unlike the partial loss observed by PU and part PU membranes that operate on solid state transport
The 3L gore will likely be better than pro in high intensity use.
Goretex Pro changed it seems in 2020. I am starting to think what is sold as 3L Goretex now was what was sold as Goretex Pro in 2019.
The key for me is that it has 3 layers and the outer fabric is durable. If it is Pro or not seems to matter less. The Pro now is marketed as having stretch to it and more durable and breathable...how the works in real world use is a different story.
Personally I am not a fan of the 2.5 layer Goretex, but i know some people prefer it so every version has its tradeoffs. What is marketed now as 3L Goretex seems to be the material I prefer.
There are currently 3 different types of Pro:
Most Breathable - which is the old Pro
It is not sold as Gore-Tex 3L now.
According to what Gore advertised in the past, Gore-Tex Pro was more breathable over the standard Gore-Tex. The membrane matters most but you also need to take into account the face fabric and backer so you could have a 3L jacket with C-Knit backer that breathes as well or possibly better than a Pro one.
Gore hardly ever releases test results but some manufacturers release RET ratings for their jackets and it is possible to compare RET ratings of Gore-Tex items by the same manufacturer to get a rough idea of what Gore-Tex membranes or 3L combinations breathe best.
An over-simplification of goretex
# Goretex pro (2020)
A 3-layer membrane with low-density sacrificial eptfe membranes sandwiching a high-density eptfe membrane (not to be confused with gore 3L).
The 3 different styles indiciate the qualities of inner and outer fabrics bonded to the membrane.
Most Rugged -> high denier fabrics.
Most breathable -> low denier fabrics.
Stretch -> elastic fabrics bonded to a 'scrunched' membrane (like this: /\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\ ) to allow stretch.
# Goretex non-pro
An eptfe membrane bonded to a pu membrane (not to be confused with gore 2L).
3L -> medium denier fabrics inside and out, similar to the old XCR.
Paclite Plus -> low denier outer fabric and no inner fabric, the pu membrane is extra thick to provide abrasion resistance.
Active -> low denier fabrics inside and out.
Shakedry -> same as active but no outer fabric.
Differences also the missing inside pocket and coiled zip instead of Vislon on the new version. I much prefer the 2019 model or the Beta FL which is basically a Beta LT renamed with very small differences.
The big difference is upon bretheability which in this specific case appears to be even more marked (compare 28 to 20 as a rough example suggesting that Arcteryx doesn't probably always use the same materials/processes on their regular goretex differently from what have been said before in this thread) so I would think twice before pulling the trigger. Consider also the Beta Hybrid SL if you are able to pull a better price, the two most probably basically have the same performance regardless the “bad” reputation of paclite.
ps: I wouldn't buy a goretex jacket without pit-zips either...(nor of any other membrane for that matter unless for "emergency / fast and light" use)
I own the 2020/2021 version, and am pleased with it. The vast majority of purchasers will be using it in and around the city (myself included), not for extreme alpine expeditions. So the addition of the pit vents was a major plus to me.
2019: lighter, more packable, premium fabric, interior pocket
2021: better venting, cheaper, supple fabric
To me it’s features and price. Personally not having an interior pocket (2021) is a big omission. Gaining pit zips doesn’t make up for that loss.
I'm in the same exact boat. For the price saving ($125) the 3L gore is a welcome substitution over the pro. The add of pit zips is also amazing.
The packability I doubt anyone would notice as they all scrunch so small
However, the lack of a simple pocket kills me. Even if it's just for storing one hat or a pair of gloves
It’ll be interesting when the 2022 comes out this spring. That should be an even more dramatic change
I like it more but it fits my body better and that’s my primary care tbh
I can see why people would be bothered but I’m happy with my purchase and no major complaints
2021 Beta lt works fine for most people, but if I had a choice between the two at the same price I’d go 2019. I rarely Rarely use pitzips.
Saw it in person. It’s basically a light rain jacket this year. Not sure how they’re selling this at premium
They lowered the price point to account for the changes
Are there any changes in the fit? How does the fit compare to the new Beta AR?
My Beta LT ripped the first time I wore it.. walking on the sandy beach.