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LeonKevlar

[Well that's definitely not what I expected the Crow Knight would be](https://i.imgur.com/6Nxiwo1.jpg) especially since he's Hangetsu's younger brother. Mikazuki clearly has a complex of some sort against his older brother. [Horse Knight](https://i.imgur.com/TRGZIy0.jpg) and [Snake Knight](https://i.imgur.com/iEpsJP9.jpg) finally make their appearances as well. Sounds like Nagumo has already made contact with the Owl Knight and Cat Knight as well so I'm guessing we'll get to meet them soon.


Frontier246

Yuuhi has inherited Hangetsu’s heroism while Hangetsu’s younger brother has become the wild card. Horse Knight is Tetsu Inada and Snake Knight is cute. That’s about the most I can say about them. I wonder if the other knights are the glasses guy and the green haired girl in the opening. They’re the only characters who haven’t appeared yet.


itsconsolefreaked

They speed runned this shit


kliff124

You have a real passion for anime, Don't you?


FlameDragoon933

Yayoi's voice sounds so cute~


Frontier246

Even her snakes voice was cute!


Kartoffelkamm

Yep. It sounded familiar, so I just looked up her VA, and it turns out her VA also voiced a minor character in Go! Princess Precure, named Karin Akehoshi.


Frontier246

I don’t know what’s sadder, Hisame admitting she was in love with Hangetsu or having to keep Hangetsu’s memory alive by being a smiling and supportive adult for the kids even though she’s emotionally in as much pain as they are. Also, Yuuhi copping a feel. Yuuhi called Hangetsu a friend! Finally! And Sami mastered the move he was trying to teach her. It shows how much they really cared about him. I though Mikazuki was as nice and free-spirited as his older brother…but he’s actually an insane battle junkie trying to surpass his brother by beating up everybody. Guess he’ll keep things unpredictable since he cares more about fighting than his fellow knights. Is Samidare easy to flatter? She blushed at Mikazuki falling for her. Does Yuuhi have a rival in battle and love? Nagomu, the horse knight! Voices by Tetsu Inada! Looks like he’ll keep the other knights in line…or at least try to. So there are 12 knights in total? We’ve seen all the ones in the Opening, but is the glasses guy and the green-haired girl knights? I assumed they were villains. Yayoi, the snake knight, seems nice and cute…albeit to the point. It’s nice to have another girl. Did Neu have feelings for Sia? His reaction to her felt more than just gratitude. Yuuhi has inherited Hangetsu’s desire to be a hero and seeks to fulfill his friend Neu’s wish now. He’s really developing well.


mgedmin

I feel like I've just watched a recap episode for half a season. Someboy sat on the fast-forward button by mistake.


JustInChina88

I don't know why the show suddenly decided to adapt 4x the amount of content in one episode compared to the previous ones, especially after the death of an important character. We needed a bit of a slower pace to decompress from the last episode. That being said, the cabbage jokes got me.


Doomroar

As an anime only watcher, i didn't really feel emotionally attached to the Dog knight, despite him being undeniably the absolute best character in the story so far And that mostly because everyone else sucks compared to him, if they haven't rushed things on this episode, i would have tuned off halfway and wondered if it was made of filler, pretty lousy filler too because, it is filler inhabited by unlikable characters, given the fact that the best one just died.


zcen

One of the main characters is intent on destroying the world, and the other is a coward that plots against everyone he meets. They're supposed to be unlikable in some regard. The real question is if the series makes you invested enough in seeing them grow or change.


Doomroar

Yeah and the explanations to how they became who they are, feels forced, which diminish the investment into seeing them grow Like come on, this guy lost his dad, who was betrayed by his best friend and partner, then his moms lefts him, then his grandpa abuses him by literally chaining him and jailing him in a room as he tries to brainwash him into being distrustful of others? at that point also give him a cancer while you are it... That backstory alone is enough to just don't care about the character it feels like a tragedy magnet


zcen

That backstory is the entire reason why his grandpa has adopted those toxic views of the world, and subsequently projected those views onto him. > it feels like a tragedy magnet [Yeah man, even the author recognizes and explicitly calls out how ridiculous it sounds](https://i.imgur.com/zcutR5t.png). I don't know how this feels "forced" - it's just his backstory. Tragedy like that isn't very believable, but that's the whole point. It's supposed to help you understand why he has this "edgy" desire to see the world end. edit: It's like spending your time fixated on why some petty muggers killed Batman's parents. There's no deep context or meaning behind why they did it, all you need to know is that the murder traumatized Bruce Wayne and that explains the kind of person he became.


Doomroar

Because it is ridiculous, just because the author calls it out itself doesn't makes it any less ridiculous than it already is, and other series have similar ridiculous tragedy scenarios, there's a whole series of book all about a series of unfortunate events, but at least in there we are given an structure explaining why those events happen In here they just happen not because something triggered them, but because the author needed them to justify the character being edgy, as if it that was the only way it could have been this edgy, when there are people out there being edgy with way less happening to them


Shiraori247

You can say that about every single story lol. Backstories as explained by zcen are quite contrived most of the time if you reduce them to the most basic components. Suspension of disbelief is required for fiction, but it's not even like Yuuhi's backstory is that out of the world. It's quite frankly a regular occurrence. Let's remind ourselves that Yuuhi's quite the upstanding citizen compared to murderers, school shooters and other criminals in our world. And teenagers tend to be edgy, just talk to some.


Doomroar

Yes every story of fiction requires you to suspend your disbelief, and is the job of the author to facilitate the process, i can suspend my disbelief quite easily for all the magical shenanigans involve on this story, but it is quite hard for me to do that for the MC's backstory when the only accompanying justification for that is "it is just something that happened, deal with it" His backstory is indeed out of the ordinary, he is an outlier, an outcast, and a social recluse, precisely because his case is not common, something that he himself recognizes, he knows that what happened to him was bizarre, the kind of stuff that is only heard in bad jokes And yes people specially teenagers can and are edgy, and can become monsters for way, way, waaaaay less, you absolutely don't need to pile up a string of 5 tragedies one on top of another until they become a mountain, to explain why he is an edge lord, and that's precisely the problem here, just having his dad being betrayed by his best friend and partner would have been enough to explain his trust issues, and you can chunk the rest to bad parenting and him being immature, done backstory complete, and not much is required of the audience to juggle in order to accept But that's not what the author did, he decided to kill his father, have his mother abandon him, have his grandpa go crazy, literally chain him and jail him in a room, and psychologically abuse him into a adopting a dumb mantra about never forming any social connections, and that is forced, that is completely unnecessary, it is overkill, even when you know it is fiction you can't help but be unable to take it seriously, your suspension of disbelief becomes a chore and a hassle, for the author makes no effort at trying to help you with the process, when you ask yourself as an audience "Ok... but why tho?" there's no answer for the question, at least so far with the answer being "just because he was unlucky, so deal with it", and so far it doesn't even seems like it is a problem with the anime, the story just fucked the MC in the ass for the sake of plot, but the thing is, that it absolutely didn't had to Another user made the comparison to Batman's origin story, but the problem is, that Batman has gotten that same origin story rewritten and re-imagined so many times, that we have a myriad of answers to the question of "Ok... but why tho?", by now Batman is a modern franchises that answers to modern demands, it is no longer something stuck back in the 40s (unless you people are trying to compare the quality of this work to comics of the 40s, which is an extremely low bar), now if you ask yourself why, you get, because it was karma and the Waynes had accumulated multiple grudges with powerful people, because they were business competitors of other companies, because they were in the way of a crimelord trying to take over the city, etc, etc, the simple origin story of Batman, has advanced to the point that it doesn't boils down to just bad luck and happenstance, so that you can invest yourself not only in the world but its characters, things are connected and one thing lead to another, what became just an origin story also serves as foreshadowing and base for multiple developments, that involve not just Batman but the rest of the characters on his world, both allies and foes That doesn't applies here


Bremen1

I guess I just see things differently, because I don't want to watch a story that's just a generic protagonist having to save the world (there's plenty of those, especially harem stuff so the viewer can imagine they're the MC). I like that this story has a character who's been through a turbulent life and been heavily shaped by it.


Doomroar

You can raise that bar a little bit, if you compare things to generic harem self inserts, almost anything will end looking good For example, Naruto? now Naruto is not a particularly high bar, but it is better than a harem romcom sex fantasy, he had a tragic backstory too, it coincidentally didn't happen just because he was unlucky, and when you ask yourself "ok... but why tho?" we are given a reason behind the why he was being fucked in the ass, not entirely a good one, and not even one that answers the entire question. For example Kishimoto never explains why Sarutobi at one point decides to just not keep his promise and neglect raising Naruto, or why the entire village decides to ignore the fact that Naruto was a victim too, etc, but it does explains some other things, like why kids were being assholes to Naruto, why he sucked at using ninjutsu, why he was orphaned, etc. And those things that are explained tie in with to the rest of the world building and serve as foreshadowing for later developments Naruto is not a good bar to use, because it does this aspect half assedly, indeed it is because it does it like that, that later on we end with a bunch of ass-pulls and unsatisfying revelations, but at the end of the day... Naruto is still better than generic self inserts


itsconsolefreaked

Because stupid but they have to follow their script


blamordeganis

I do love the piano music that plays during the sombre dramatic bits. I’m sure I heard exactly the same piece played during tonight’s episode of Rent-a-Girlfriend: is it a well-known work?


Romi_Z

The music in this show is surprisingly good. The theme that plays when the horse knight talks about what the knights are was super hype too


corner_twist

The tone shifts in this episode were so bad my god. Edit- but the animation overall looks pretty serviceable and somehow looks better than this seasons COTE episodes lol💀


JustInChina88

Its ironic that the worst paced episode do far probably had the best animation so far.


corner_twist

Yeah it's really unfortunate. They're not giving any sort of breathing space between scenes and just simply moving from one plot point to another. Shame, I really liked the manga.


JustInChina88

For this episode. Let's see how they handle it next episode.


corner_twist

Yeah hopefully the pacing is improved.


JustInChina88

Even at this pacing it won't be enough to finish by episode 12, so most lileky it'll be 24 and they needed to cut stuff this episode to make everything fit. If anyone is curious how much they cut, go see my comment in the source material corner.


BobGainsfield

Unfortunately I'm still convinced the show will be pure garbage if they try to adapt the whole thing... They really should have stuck with adapting 2-3 chapters per EP and left it with a "read the manga" ending. If they're really trying to cram everything in the show will be worse than it is already.


JustInChina88

But it doesn't look like it'll be crammed. 24 episodes for 60\~ chapters is pretty good. This episode was definitely rushed, but it isn't indicative of the rest of the show.


Sergiocamjur

Bear in mind that Hoshi no Samidare was a monthly manga, they have around 2.5 times the length of a normal Manga chapter. For example, naruto is usually 15-18 pages, whilst Hoshi was around 42...


Dude0Covid21

Lycoris Recoil , yes a waste of time and effort. Not my money though.


sexta_

Yeah, pacing was all over the place.


kliff124

was they trying do a speed run challenge or something. like damn


Doomroar

I think it was good, people recommend this on the basis of "believe me it gets better later on" and "it has a slow start but then everything clicks in" and "you will hate it at the beginning, but by the end consider it a masterpiece" And so far the anime has confirmed those statements, so far characters, story, and themes have all been quite bad, forced, and contrived, which makes sense we have been warned that the start of the story is not good at all Given that state of things, rushing pass the bog that is the very unlikable start, and saving resources for later in the animation once the story kicks in, is a good idea, let the shoddy storytelling have budget animation and fast pacing, at least it is bad but it goes by quickly Frankly, if these episodes where 4 times longer i would have dropped this anime long ago


hillesheim1992

> saving resources for later in the animation once the story kicks in I don't think that's what they're doing here. If I had to give any advice it would be to drop the show and read the manga instead.


Doomroar

Yeah no, i am sticking with the anime because it is going fast, it feels like it appreciates my time, the manga probably spends a bunch of panel on characters that i am not attached at all which is pretty much everyone except Neu


hillesheim1992

Oof, I guess that's fair enough


Shiraori247

This is the reason why I'm telling manga source readers to chill with the whole drop the anime suggestion. People dropping the anime won't go read the manga lol. You're basically killing off any potential new fans.


hillesheim1992

I'm just legitimately confused how someone could come away from this show wanting more.


Goku-Sun

anime only here: despite of knowing that the pacing and animation is absolute shit i'm still quite invested in the story and characters. Actually i'm really enjoying this show. I still wish they would had given us some time to ease down after episode 5.


corner_twist

So like I didn't have many problems with the story at this point in the manga. Apart from the grandfather thing, I didn't really feel anything was contrived and/or forced. I think this was around chapter 19 if I'm not wrong and if I wasn't hooked already, I would have probably dropped it and made fun of it. I'm not a fan of unlikable protagonists and I didn't mind Yuuhi. So the phrase "it gets better" probably doesn't apply to you here, considering most of the core cast remains the same. Or maybe Mizukami is just a bad writer. Who knows?


Doomroar

Na i have experienced some of his other works like Planet With, i know that he can deliver But the MC had his dreams crushed after his father got killed by his best friend and partner, then his mom left him, then his grandfather has a mental breakdown, decides to physically and mentally abuse him then moves on with his life on his own, and then he becomes a magical warrior... and all of it happened... just because... really it all could have down just fine with his father being betrayed by his partner, and that would have been enough to explain his trust issues, but nope, he had to add all those unnecessary extra layers just for the sake of making the tale more dramatic If there was something else to focus on the story other than the MC and his mental issues, which hinge on that tall tale of a backstory, i wouldn't even mind that much, but that's pretty much all there's to talk about, everyone else is an enigma, died, or a side character with little to no real role on the story, we don't even have a villain to talk about yet


corner_twist

I think the big problem here is that they're cutting a lot of small moments here and there which made Yuuhi somewhat likeable to me in the earlier chapters. It kinda made me sympathetic towards his character and made me look forward to his development. I'm not sure what's really going wrong in the anime. If I hadn't read the manga I probably would fail to connect with Yuuhi here. Another thing is that I found Mikazuki borderline unbearable in this episode, even if I didn't mind him much in the manga. The shoddy animation aside I'm not liking the anime as much as the manga and I'm currently unable to point out why.


ZapsZzz

Anime only here, the picked up pace feels good in the sense that we are no longer just hanging around waiting for the random encounter. That said does feel a bit awkward the horse knight went around finding so many more while the key objective the Princess is relatively unprotected - if they are like a week early then it'd probably not have lost Hangetsu. The shark teeth symbolism seems a bit abrupt as well - I don't remember ever seeing this popping up in this before.


Romi_Z

For me it was a bit too fast, and they are leaving out a considerable about of stuff too (I am reading the manga side by side). I hope that the show finds the optimal content per episode formula so they don't have to cut out too much stuff and not mess up the flow of the show


Stoppels

As an anime-only it definitely was too fast, it needed at least another 5-10 minutes to more appropriately handle all the stuff they compressed and put in this one episode. Even just skipping most of the OP and ED and using 2-3 minutes more between each of the fast-forwarded feeling moment would've helped. I'm happy they decided to fast-forward though, I have no problems at all with a story ramping the pacing up or down as long as it's done well. In this case it was a bit rushed, but it doesn't feel like it was for the worse. I realise some small nonessential things will be cut out that altogether do contribute, but it's probably a result of the first episodes having a slightly too slow pacing.


PossibleHipster

Horse knight: hello! Also goodbye! Seriously I'm only watching this to laugh at it, and i dont mean that comedy bits.


freemasonry

Does Mikazuki look kinda off to anyone else? I feel like his face doesn't look quite right but I can't quite place why. He looks unhinged, but it almost seems like he's not unhinged enough to capture his manga appearance or something.


Doomroar

Oh the lil brother is... lets say mentally unstable and not quite smart, he will fit right in with the rest of the group that are in a similar boat. That's the problem with the older brother he was too stable and reasonable, he didn't had enough mental issues for the plot. People have been complaining about the series being rushed, but as someone that is encountering this for the first time, let me tell you, the start of this thing is not good, and it is not about the crappy animation, the story telling is trash, so the fact that they decided to deliberately get rid of the prologue as fast as possible and advance until this thing gets good, was a brilliant idea If this episode had been broken into 3 parts, i would have given up on this anime, but since the staff is self aware and committed to deliver us towards the actual important things they manage to convince me into sticking with it And yes this anime may not be anywhere near close to being good, but the fact that they can convince someone that by all means hasn't managed to enjoy even one episode so far, to give this chance under the premise that A- the story gets better later, and B - they are trying to get to that point quickly so that we are not stuck with the current state of things, means that even if the anime staff are not fans of this work, they at least know what is needed to keep people watching And this is it, they know it is a slow start full of bullshit and forced scenarios that way down the line come together to some enjoyable pay off, so they are getting the hassle out of the way fast, and i support that decision, i don't feel like my time is being wasted because at least they are not meandering and wandering around, but going straight to the point.


zcen

I'm a fanboy so my opinion is biased but I think the idea that "the early part of the story is bad" isn't really fair or true. The author actually plans out the entire series in advance so everything is paced accordingly. The standard we see today is that series have explosive starts to capture the attention of viewers, and then inevitably the narrative starts to show its weaknesses and you hope that the audience is bought in enough to stay with the show from peak to peak. Biscuit Hammer on the other hand is a gradual upward curve the entire way through. > they know it is a slow start full of bullshit and forced scenarios I don't really know what bullshit or forced scenarios you're referring to TBH.


Doomroar

The main-character is traumatized because his grandpa literally chained him after his father dies betrayed by his coworker and his mom then abandons him Then he coincidentally meets a nihilist girl who plans on destroying the planet because she is unable to reconcile the idea of everyone else outliving her While at the same time he develops a crush on her despite being 20 and her at best being in high school (at best...), just to justify the narrative attachment that he has to her despite being traumatized and indoctrinated into not developing attachments to others Even the existence of the Dog Knight as nothing but a mere narrative device in order to push the MC into growing rather than being a character in itself was forced, you can taste how he was bound to die just to serve as a lesson for others the moment he appeared and didn't came installed with a bunch of contrived baggage explaining why his character was so flawed, it also doesn't helps how the show keep reminded us how he was there just to serve as a role model of what an adult is supposed to be, rather than a character in itself And yet, despite being just a template for others to use a guide and contrast, the Dog Knight was the most likeable character in the cast That is what i meant by bullshit or forced scenarios, your suspension of disbelief has to extend beyond just the fantasy setting, and into the circumstances behind the characters, and is way too much, you just can't care for them On this last episode the MC wants to be a hero and protect the other knights, despite the fact that if they die it is one less opponent in his way to destroy the planet, of course because he really doesn't wants to destroy the planet and actually doesn't wants to be a villain, but the fact that he still sticks to the farce and comes installed with a supremely contrived set of tragedies forming his backstory to sustain that farce, makes it so you just can't take him seriously even when ignoring the fact that he is being childish about it, which by itself alone already makes it hard to take seriously which is the case of the princes And then we have the latest example the Crow Knight, is battle junky obsessed with trying to surprise his brother, with an inferiority complex... because of course he is, so we are gonna have him around for a good while, despite there not being anything interesting about him, just forced drama in order to let him create conflict and push a message around his feelings regarding his brother Really i think it is good that the anime is not dragging things around


zcen

> Then he coincidentally meets a nihilist girl who plans on destroying the planet because she is unable to reconcile the idea of everyone else outliving her Come on, you can't really blame a series for setting up a premise - this literally happens in any fictional series. Not to mention this is hardly a coincidence considering they are intimately involved in this war as Beast Knight and Princess. I won't answer anything that I think spoils the series. > While at the same time he develops a crush on her despite being 20 and her at best being in high school (at best...), just to justify the narrative attachment that he has to her despite being traumatized and indoctrinated into not developing attachments to others It's [explained in the dream sequence in the 3rd ep](https://i.imgur.com/zAZVpXC.png). Number one is that he hates the world too, so they have aligned goals. Number two is that he was also trying to use her as a way of escaping the chains his grandpa set. IMO it's consistent with the character that we've been presented up until this point. > Even the existence of the Dog Knight as nothing but a mere narrative device in order to push the MC into growing rather than being a character in itself was forced... What's wrong with that? Kamina was just a narrative device to push Simon's growth after all. Characters are meant to be used to achieve specific purposes throughout the course of a story - that's one of the main tools a writer has. > And yet, despite being just a template for others to use a guide and contrast, the Dog Knight was the most likeable character in the cast This is contradictory - You're saying "despite being the role model, he was the most likeable"... yes he's the most likeable, that is exactly what his character is designed to do. You're comparing him to a girl that wants to destroy the world and a recluse that secretly plots against everyone he meets. You're not supposed to really "like" the other characters to be honest. > and comes installed with a supremely contrived set of tragedies forming his backstory to sustain that farce Again, you used "contrived" as some sort of criticism but it's a fictional series. Everything is contrived, you can literally point at anything and say that - that doesn't make it a bad thing. It sounds to me like you don't like the show, which is by all means your right, and as a result you aren't bought into the premise or the narrative. When that happens everything can seem ridiculous and contrived.


Shiraori247

Agree with Zcen here. People are throwing words around to justify not liking slow-burn stories. Not every single story has to use the same formula.


Doomroar

Is not really a slow-burn when the anime has fast pacing tho


Shiraori247

People were complaining about the plot not moving because they don't see a singular storyline despite it being laid out. They wanted the story to move even faster because they weren't interested in characterisation episodes.


Doomroar

Well i agree that the characters are not really interesting, but the show is by no means a slow burn It is just missing elements on its narrative to make you connect and care about the characters, as of now bad stuff just happens to them by mere bad luck, and we are supposed to accept it and roll with it, and roll with their bad and unreasonable personality quirks that come as a result of their bad luck And that is a bad hook for some viewers, including myself But the pacing is fortunately quite fast tho


Shiraori247

Nah, I'm pretty sure most of your comment boils down to the hero is not following standard expectations of a protagonist. They're definitely interesting.


Doomroar

> I won't answer anything that I think spoils the series. And you don't have to, luckily the anime seems like it will get there sooner rather than later to those things, which is why i am sticking with it, because you don't have to wait that much to get answer to your questions, it is not really a slow burn, if the anime deals with it swiftly > IMO it's consistent with the character that we've been presented up until this point. Of course it is, because the character itself has a contrived backstory, incredibly forced one, straight out of a pity beggar, the kind that comes and tells you an overly tragic tale explaining how they ended homeless and now need your economic support, straight out, all he was missing was some freak accident that made him unable to fit in society, no wait... he kind of has that covered too > Kamina was just a narrative device to push Simon's growth after all Yes but Kamina was a character that was properly developed and exposed to the readers before dying, we knew his hopes and dreams and how they were passed down and inherited to the rest of the cast, managing to live on in spirit, by the moment he died we knew all there was to know about Kamina. As of now, that doesn't applies to the Dog Knight, we know about his personal regrets, and his frustrated dreams, and that's it, why did he really agree to become a Knight, what was his wish, why was he going around as a janitor, and passing himself as a hero for hire? the show will surely, i hope, answer all that in the future, but until it does, the Dog Knight remains more a template than a character, for his characterization was left unfinished by the moment he died And again, luckily the show is going by at a fast pace > This is contradictory - You're saying "despite being the role model, he was the most likeable"... I understand, my bad, absolutely and completely my fault here, i will correct my language. Instead of "likeable", i will describe him as enjoyable, he is enjoyable, unlike everyone else who is just annoying to follow, a character can be unlikable like for example Gendo Ikari from Evangelion, absolute human scum, garbage, almost 0 redeeming qualities, even his obsession to his wife, which is his most positive quality, is just a twisted form of love coming from is own fragile ego and low self-esteem, he is not likeable whatsoever, but as a villain he is enjoyable to watch, you can't help it but to love hating him That's not something I can say about the princess or the main character, in that regard they are similar to Shinji Ikari, except that Shinji manages to actually make you feel genuine pity amid the many frustrations, because at its core you can recognize that the character is not asking much out of the world, he just wants love and acceptance, and yet he can't get even that much, and that is made clear very early on in the series Thus the Dog Knight despite being undeveloped and under explored, was at least enjoyable to watch > Again, you used "contrived" as some sort of criticism but it's a fictional series. Everything is contrived, you can literally point at anything and say that - that doesn't make it a bad thing. Contrived is the perfect word for this, used in order to describe when a story doesn't flows naturally, and feels forced and artificial, not because it is fictional, or because the setting is that of a fantasy world, but because things just feel badly arranged Rather than being in there as part of the character, they feel like they were in there just for the sake of forcing a situation to occur, they are there as excuses for the plot to happen, to the point that they feel unnecessary, excessive, to the point that as a reader you just have to force yourself to accept them, hence contrived It is more easy to accept the idea of magic, a giant hammer trying to destroy the world, an evil magician, and talking animals, over the idea that this guy was physically and mentally abused by his grandpa, after his father died betrayed by his own partner, then abandoned by his mom, and then growing up traumatized while the rest of his family ignored the 2 of them, facilitating the abuse he had after the string of tragedies It is like something out of "A Series of Unfortunate Events" minus the conspiratorial setting that justifies and explain the presence of the series of unfortunate events, while in that book series the unfortunate events are the end result of a bunch of things, in here, at least until now, they are just the starting point they are the cause rather than the effect, and that makes it feel contrived


zcen

> Of course it is, because the character itself has a contrived backstory, I know you repeat this point later in your post as well so I'll just get my opinion here out of the way. It looks like you read One Piece. I don't know if you're a fan or not, but all the complaints you have about tragic backstories can be applied to so many characters in One Piece (and obviously a bunch of other popular media). Robin, Law, Brook, Doflamingo, the list goes on. There's nothing inherently forced or unnatural about a tragic backstory - as I said, it mainly sounds like you aren't bought into the series so everything seems like bullshit. > Kamina was a character that was properly developed and exposed to the readers before dying, Kamina was a one note personification of manliness and hope. His hopes and dreams never went past the idea of "moving forward". I definitely think Kamina as a character was handled much better, but he was also a lot closer to the MC and had more time to gain affection from the audience. > how they were passed down and inherited to the rest of the cast, We're in an episode discussion thread where the Dog Knight has LITERALLY passed down his abilities to Yuuhi, with him and the Princess both trying to adopt his outlook on life. I don't think him and Kamina are that different in purpose, but totally agree that the Dog Knight was underdeveloped in comparison. > It is more easy to accept the idea of magic, a giant hammer trying to destroy the world, an evil magician, and talking animals, over the idea that this guy was physically and mentally abused by his grandpa, after his father died betrayed by his own partner, then abandoned by his mom, and then growing up traumatized while the rest of his family ignored the 2 of them, facilitating the abuse he had after the string of tragedies I mean that's your opinion, and you're entitled to having it. I don't agree but I can't really argue against how you feel about it. I'm honestly more surprised that you're managing to stick with the show because I don't know if you'll even like it later on if you dislike everything about the premise and the current plot.


Doomroar

> looks like you read One Piece. I don't know if you're a fan or not, I guess i am a fan, my relationship with One Piece is bittersweet at the moment, for i do have a lot of gripes with the series, specially with the latest arc which share a lot of the same problems this particular series presents, namely in One Piece usually we spend a lot of time setting up story elements with a lot of time ahead and foreshadowing in order for it to pay out, so that once a revelation happens we have enough investment in the character, also the tragedies in the backstory don't happen just for the sake of tragedy but they come accompanied with the reasoning and actions of other characters answering to the established dynamics of the world, it all comes together to form a part of a frame work The latest arc of One Piece deviated from that formula twice, [Wano Arc Spoilers] >!with its main villain, and his offspring, which was one of the biggest downsides of the arc, specially because of all the build up it had towards the climax which felt rushed and lacked impact,!< but anyway this is not about One Piece In here we find a similar situation compared to that last arc of One Piece, but while that arc ended, this anime is just starting, so maybe later on we get answers behind why the MC had that unbelievable series of tragedies happen in quick succession to him, or why the Princess was ill and then conveniently gifted magic powers, etc But as of now, all of those things are presented detached of context, and explanation, and exist just to facilitated an scenario, and that makes it feels forced and unnatural, because there's no connection between those events and the rest of the world, they just so happened to occur, unlike in One Piece they are not tied in to a sociopolitical logic that rules the world explaining why tragedy happens, or tied to the explanation of the dangers that occur to those that venture unprepared into the sea, etc, etc, in other words we got their tragic backstory, but not the whys behind the tragic backstory, we don't get the contextual information that make the tragedies feel like a natural conclusion, for example in a Series of Unfortunate events we learn why those events keep occurring, there's something driving them to take place, same thing in One Piece, In Lucifer and the Biscuit Hammer, if they exist maybe the author is saving them for later, but as a result of hiding that information from us we end with the problem of contrivance, In so far, and until we meet the man who betrayed the MC's dad, or his mom, or his grandpa comes and talks some more and properly explains himself rather than excusing himself, they are just events that by mere bad luck and happenstance fell onto the MC and the Princess, they just so happen to be unfortunate for the convenience of the plot, just like how Saw just so happen to be the only being capable of saving a kid from being ran over, and maybe that changes later on, but as of now that's how it feels, so until those things become addressed properly, they will continue to feel contrived And i can get Saw dying in a car accident by saving someone, one unfortunate event? sure, 2? maybe, but the story of the MC is just like 5 things pilled one over another man! come on... > Kamina was a one note personification of manliness and hope Yes he was an ideal, however since we get to know him better, and spend more time with him as to grow attached, he manages to go beyond just a staple for the rest of the cast to be inspired by, something that the Dog Knight doesn't manages to achieve, despite him being enjoyable to watch, hell i can't even remember his name, i remember his dog Saw's name more than him The MC and princess only inherited his combat skills and powers, as of now, but what made his core still remains to be seen reflected in them, the MC is now trying to be heroic, but as of now they are both trying to commit suicide and blow the planet with themselves Freeza and Cell style, which means their inheritance, as of now is superficial, they are becoming stronger, but the whole idea of becoming stronger was for the sake of others, they are both still just trying to gain strength for their selfish personal agendas > I'm honestly more surprised that you're managing to stick with the show because I don't know if you'll even like it later on if you dislike everything about the premise and the current plot. Is because the anime is going by fast with the story, as many issues as i may have with it, it doesn't feels like i am wasting my time They quickly move on to what comes next, so for example, with the latest arc of One Piece, i didn't like the ending, but similarly the author decided to just move forward instead of lingering on the things, so as a reader i can just move forward too and forget those things as long as they don't keep being brought back, same thing happens here in this anime, instead of spending half an episode mourning the Dog Knight which didn't had much impact for me, we are quickly moving on to the next thing and meeting the rest of the knights, and i think that's good And then if the story is as great as how people say it is, then i assume, all the nit picks i have with this will be addressed later on, or at least a good enough payout will come out of this, if we are just supposed to accept that these things happened just because, then maybe i will get to say that it was worth it


zcen

> also the tragedies in the backstory don't happen just for the sake of tragedy but they come accompanied with the reasoning and actions of other characters answering to the established dynamics of the world This isn't a problem with Yuuhi's backstory. The things that happened to Yuuhi don't break the rules or dynamics of the world. His dad got murdered by his crooked partner, and his mom had a mental breakdown and disappeared. His grandfather also crumbled mentally and projected his instability and fears onto his dependent. Honestly even as I rewatch it, it's not that outrageous, and to be blunt - it's a criticism I've literally never heard before. A lot of people hate that Yuuhi forgave his grandpa, but in all the discussions I've read, that episode discussion where you're the only one that has some material problem with the backstory and how "ridiculous" it is is the only time I've ever seen someone complain about it. > But as of now, all of those things are presented detached of context, and explanation, and exist just to facilitated an scenario, I can understand the confusion around the Princess, but Yuuhi just literally has a backstory - it just happened. There's no reason for it, events just happen to people and he got the short end of life. > for example in a Series of Unfortunate events we learn why those events keep occurring, there's something driving them to take place, same thing in One Piece, > but the story of the MC is just like 5 things pilled one over another man! come on... I'm beating a dead horse here but you're hyperfocused and exaggerating a singular set of events that happened. Outside of the war against the golems, there's no more of these "tragic unexplained events" that befalls Yuuhi. It's like focusing on why some muggers killed Batman's parents, and then demanding to know why they killed Batman's parents as if that's the answer that will help you understand the story. All you need to know is that Bruce Wayne was traumatized as a kid and that trauma explains the kind of person he grew into.


Doomroar

The rules or dynamics of the world have not been explained to us, and as far as we know even the MC himself agrees that [his backstory ludicrous](https://i.imgur.com/zcutR5t.png), so to now downplay it as it not that outrageous is just you being defensive about, specially when it is mentioned in the story itself, that it very much is ludicrous. We know from the brief explanation given by the character himself who recognizes that his backstory is the stuff you hear in bad jokes, that the partner of his dad was corrupt, but that's all we get, that's not enough to go on, what were the motivations of his partner? greed, power, blackmail? also did they told us that his mom had a mental breakdown or are we just speculating about it? there's a myriad of reasons we can speculate for why she left beyond assuming she had a mental breakdown, the only confirmation of such case we have is his grandpa, who moved on without the person he affected the most on his own Yeah people usually just drop these kind of things and don't bother actually discussing it, i am leaving my record on it > I can understand the confusion around the Princess, but Yuuhi just literally has a backstory - it just happened. There's no reason for it, events just happen to people and he got the short end of life. And that's why it feels forced, because it is a bunch of drama, for the sake of plot, it just happened. > 'm beating a dead horse here but you're hyperfocused and exaggerating a singular set of events that happened. Outside of the war against the golems, there's no more of these "tragic unexplained events" that befalls Yuuhi. Well what else is there to focus pm? nothing much else if anything has happened, some golems appear and they beat them, we move on to the next day The sister is as unexplored as was the Dog Knight so i can't even criticize or praise her, because there's nothing much to review there Neu literally has amnesia so he is pretty much a blank board, trying and failing to be a voice of reason The golems are literally constructs who apart from being oddly aware of pedestrian laws... show nothing but aggression towards the knights And that leads us back again to the main character and his coming of age story, which hinges on his backstory because that's what allows the setting to exist, because only now at the very end of the episode we see him grow a lil bit, and even then the thing that serves as a foundation for the character in the end boils down to "it just happened", and that's with the anime actually having a fast pacing apparently So really what else should i be focusing on? out of the cast what else is there to talk about, out of those 2 characters are gone because they died, and died before being properly developed, one is a support character that exist in the fringes of the story by being an absentee father, another is a plot device whose existence was in the backstory of the MC, 6 just appeared on this very episode are an enigma, with 2 of the animals not even having lines, the sister is just a side character with only connection to the story being that her sister is the princess... It all circles back to the MC and his backstory because that's what has been the focus Also talking about Batman, his backstory has been redone and revisited multiple times precisely because having his parents dying just because it was something that happened, was a weak argument, that's how we ended with versions in which the Joker was the one organizing everything from the start, or how they were targeted by a rival corporation, or how they had dealings with the underground which they were trying to destabilize, Batman has grown as a story across the decades and writers have taken that simplistic origin story and tried to make it into something proper, so yes originally it was something that just happened to Batman, but by now it is not the case anymore, Batman managed to correct that weak part of his narrative, by reinventing himself at infinitum, it is one of the advantages it has as an immortal franchise, and the fact people keep adding and developing why Batman's parents got killed, is because that aspects is just that important to a character that keeps changing with time with each new version, so not only is it important, people literally made it their job to writer, rewrite, and focus on why some muggers killed Batman's parents


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Doomroar

Thank goodness that's one less red flag at least


JustInChina88

She's 17(maybe turned 18 in the anime? idk), and he's 20. Not a huge age gap. Still follows the half your age plus seven rule.


Bremen1

She's drawn young looking, though honestly most of the characters in the anime are. Consider the older sister, who's a college professor, or Miyazuki who's in the same class as Yuuhi and therefor likely around 20 - just looking at a picture I could definitely accept them as 19 and 16 or so. I think a lot of that is the style it's done in. But anyways I can understand someone being offput about the characters' ages based on appearance alone.


JustInChina88

I agree that the prologue is rough storytelling-wise, but calling it trash is a bit much. This episode was the only one I would consider bad since the storyboarding and pacing have been good up until now.


Sharebear42019

holy shit this episode especially was a mess. the breakneck pacing, things just happening constantly without properly staging why they are, completely skipping major visual elements (breaking the chains of fear). it was like a conveyor belt trying to push through things as quickly as possible to get to the poorly animated fights it's actually amazing to me how bad this adaptation is


ObvsThrowaway5120

Did not think Yuuhi would grab Hisame’s boobs haha. He saw a chance and he took it! Poor woman though, she really liked that dude huh? Hangetsu’s brother is a lot like him, kind of goofy on the outside. I don’t think he understands how to play “catch” though lol. I liked that “red thread of fate crafted for a third-date author’s convenience” line. Author calling himself out? Haha. But man, the little bro is kind of a psycho. For all that talk, he got chucked pretty easily by Sami lol. Looks like yuuhi has a rival in more then one sense of the word! I thought Nagumo was gonna throw down but nope, you just removed his jacket to run faster lol. Mikazuki is truly insane. Who tf just eats cabbage like that? Haha. But I guess Nagumo can fight if he wants to and apparently he strong af. It seems like Yuuhi is still effected by what happened to Hangetsu. I’m glad he kind of snapped out of it enough to help Yayoi and her familiar Sia. Those two look like they’ll be a fun addition to this show.


mgedmin

> Who tf just eats cabbage like that? *raises hand* Raw cabbage is delicious.


ObvsThrowaway5120

I mean raw cabbage is fine, but you really just eat a head of cabbage like an apple?


Stoppels

I once did an onion like that. The only time I'd apple/sandwich bite cabbage, though, is when it's small enough.


ObvsThrowaway5120

Huh. I mean to each their own I guess, but I don’t think I’ve ever seen anyone do that to a head of cabbage or onion.


Stoppels

Haha, I don't recommend it, but shock value +10. Once you've… peeled? *most* of the cabbage, you're left with a handy green snack. I don't go full ham on a whole cabbage like crowboy did, though.


mgedmin

No, I cut off a smaller piece and then rip off the leaves then eat them individually. Point made.


Technical-Contest-30

atrocious pacing


Rumpel1408

OK yeah, the pacing was definatly a bit fast, but I felt that the important bits still worked well enough


hyoton1

I'm not sure whether this or devil is a part timer s2 is the worse adaptation, but I've come around to thinking this is actually the better looking of the pair.


Shiraori247

The author wasn't able to get an adaptation for over a decade. The more negativity the source material readers spread, the less chances he gets a better studio for his other works. You guys have to stop trashing this. Realise that complaining incessantly makes the situation worse. It will just confirm the haters' and sponsors' belief that Mizukami's works aren't worth adapting. That's bad news for any of Mizukami's fans. Budget doesn't come falling out of the sky and the only way to justify adaptations is to show demand. Mizukami accepted this adaptation because it's the best offer he's gotten. Imagine trashing an amazing author's decade-long dream cause he couldn't get a multi-million dollar sponsor (Yes animes cost that much to make, even "trash ones").


CrashDunning

This is not a matter of it being a low budget adaptation. It's a matter of literally every possible single thing being wrong with it. It's not simply that the show looks bad. The pacing, changes, tone, and amount of crucial character and plot points that they're cutting out make this a terrible adaptation too. This isn't on Mizukami, it's entirely on the studio. If people hate the anime, it's entirely on the people who made it. It's not our responsibility to sit through a terrible show just to maybe get more shows. Even Mizukami has been trashing the anime on social media. If this is how his other manga would be adapted, then hell yeah I don't want them to be.


hyoton1

And honestly it's not like people are nitpicking this shit. It sucks. And this is just how the industry is now: there's several other bad adaptations going on this very season, everyone is in the same boat.


IndependentMacaroon

The Snake Knight thing is just more confirmation that the story is low-key sexist... only female knight out of like 5 so far and her first appearance is to be saved by Mr Hero because she's not good enough at fighting. Also more weird perv stuff and college guy crushing on like middle-school girl - should I be glad he's crazy? The apparent lesson that someone else dying in a heroic sacrifice should lead to you giving it a try too to "honor it" is not great either.


Catfish017

>The Snake Knight thing is just more confirmation that the story is low-key sexist... only female knight out of like 5 so far That's ignoring the princess who is by far the strongest character so far and completely flips around the knight-princess thing that you normally see. >her first appearance is to be saved by Mr Hero because she's not good enough at fighting Her first appearance is to SAVE the MC. You're thinking of her third appearance where he returns the favor. And yes, golems are hard to 1v1. Even Shinonome died against one. You'll notice that the whole "protecting others" thing is a big thing in this show, both men and women on either side.