T O P
AutoModerator

# Source Material Corner Reply to this comment for any source-related discussion, future spoilers (including future characters, events and general hype about future content), comparison of the anime adaptation to the original, or just general talk about the source material. **You are still required to tag all spoilers.** Discussions about the source outside of this comment tree will be removed, and replying with spoilers outside of the source corner will lead to bans. The spoiler syntax is: `[Spoiler source] >!Spoiler goes here!<` # **All untagged spoilers and hints in this thread will receive immediate 8-day bans (minimum).** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/anime) if you have any questions or concerns.*


epsiblivion

Someone gif ushio’s hair recovery transformation.


leven-seven

[someone already did](https://www.reddit.com/r/animegifs/comments/wgfrrc/hair_growth_products/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share)


rollin340

Should be an advertisement for a hair product or something.


dinliner08

with all those glitters and stars as the background, she really is a Precure


manormortal

Much better SSJ3 transformation that the usual constipation.


Serocco

I miss short hair Ushio already


DadAsFuck

the part with nezu and his wife hurt to watch, poor old man


Serocco

Shout out to Ushio. The mark of a Best Girl is whether she can not just hold her own but also carry the series by herself without the main guy. Ushio not only does that in spades (her empathy vs everyone's logic is so fucking good), she's the reason Shinpei even has a shot at doing anything cause she's the reason he has Haine's eye.


theyawner

And I think he may have been aiming at his wife back in episode 5 during the festival. The knowledge of it all made him finally decide to let go.


actuallyrndthoughts

Wow Surely took their time. Anyways, really enjoyed all the Mio scenes. For such a plot driven story, the characters are very enjoyable.


Serocco

Shadow Mio is really cool but Ushio steals every scene


salic428

I like how basically everyone have dropped the "shadow" from "shadow Ushio". Remember when she appeared in episode 3 many were hostile to her and said "but she's just a copy".


Serocco

We have documented, verifiable, soon to be archived evidence of everyone doubting Ushio then slowly realizing she's not only dope af but actual Best Girl material Ya love to see it


Hundvd7

I started watching this anime for the tan waifu, and I still really like Mio, but I can't lie. Ushio is best girl by far


ImJLu

There's something meta about how Mio is outshined by Ushio even as a character to the viewer...


Think-Ad-941

[Judging from band Aid](https://imgur.com/a/iRSAPwj) Shinpei sent Ushio the gift after that talk. Tokiko must be happy to wear [Mio's T-shirt](https://imgur.com/a/CyfdBqs). It's a shame ep 18 is a banger but we can't talk about it now.


DonaldJenkins

Dang how you notice this stuff, do i gotta check your comment history now to see what else you’ve found?!


Think-Ad-941

Lol only this. I just love TokiMio


Stergeary

It's interesting how Mio thinks that her body is hairy and sweaty and her nose and fingers are ugly and yet when Tokiko sees Mio's shadow naked she thinks it's the most beautiful thing she's ever seen and wants to stare at it forever.


Think-Ad-941

Yeah I really hope she can improve her self-esteem


ImJLu

Better than the Sakana shirt. After learning what it means, I can't help but judge her for wearing a shirt with a fish on it that just says FISH on it. What a dumb shirt, lol.


salic428

(I've watched the raws of episode 18 yesterday, but anyway.) Everything is progressing smoothly... *too* smoothly, I must say. (A small peeve, but I just can't get over how the Hishigata dad is forgiven by Shinpei & co.) Still, no sign of Haine. I wonder if she's ready to take over as S!Shinpei now. --- ### A computer analogy for shadows We've started using the analogy when we treat shadows as sentient machines that can "scan" and "print". Last episode I realized, this can be extended to explain more facts about shadows. #### mud as hardware S!Mio confirmed shadows are made of "mud", which usually sticks to a 2D surface, but can scan organisms and print a 3D body. The simulacrum can mimic any ordinary matter, but at the bottom is composed of that mud. (Think of [novel name] >!*Solaris* by Stanisław Lem!<.) It seems mud is also a storage medium, and a shadow's memory capacity is directly proportional to the mud it contains. S!Ushio's real body was heavily wounded and almost erased during her fight with S!Shiori. It took her 3 days to reboot and recover a body from her remaining mud. This explains why S!Ushio says "if I copy a human I'll lose myself" – her physical storage is full. ("B–But S!Ushio has equal power with Haine, how could she have such little storage?" Well, it's not hard to imagine a computer with advanced architecture but limited storage. Throughput and capacity are independent parameters.) #### personality as operating system Why doesn't human forms and memories appear to be affected by the data storage limitation? I think the human personality acts as the BIOS of the shadow storage. If a pile of shadow mud has less capacity than what is needed for copying a human, it would be unable to scan the human fully in the first place. It's only after allocating space for the human that the extra storage can be "formatted" for scanning. This also brings up the possibility that, a shadow can compress memories onto inanimate items (Ushio's phone?), but without proper booting the data is unreadable. #### shadow functions (softwares) Last time I wrote about Shide's ability to conjure shadow items from memory data. Someone questioned me if it's possible that Haine is transmitting the data real-time. I don't think so. Note how most shadow functions require touch. They erase with a touch, they share memory with touch, and Haine must [touch Shinpei's eyeball](https://files.catbox.moe/v3t0ur.png) to gouge it out. (For some reasons, S!Ushio [extends her hand](https://files.catbox.moe/ar19cg.png) when she tries to scan something, even though touch is not required.) Other than that, they have to use conventional means of communication. I think Haine's telepathy has limited bandwidth. Whenever Haine uses telepathy, it's some simple order that can be represented with plain text. But structural data for copied items are so large, they can't be telepathized in real time. ### The inspiration for Haine's shadow realm This is my research notes on the "shadow realm" concept that appeared last episode. Turns out it has its deep roots in Japanese myths. To begin with, I noticed [the tangerines](https://i.imgur.com/lo1TT6B.png) shown when Seidou (Hishigata dad) mentioned the realm. Back when this show started, I searched and learned that Wakayama [is famous for](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wakayama_Prefecture#Agriculture) its special brand of orange, but it's so prominent in that image that it *must* have some symbolic meaning. By consulting zh-wiki, I learned it's actually [Tachibana orange](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tachibana_orange). The fruit is extremely bitter and nearly inedible. More importantly, from the more detailed [jp-wiki](https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E3%82%BF%E3%83%81%E3%83%90%E3%83%8A#%E6%96%87%E5%8C%96): > The [*Kojiki*](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kojiki) and [*Nihon Shoki*](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nihon_Shoki) record the story of how Emperor Suinin sent Tajimamori to the [Tokoyo no Kuni](https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E5%B8%B8%E4%B8%96%E3%81%AE%E5%9B%BD) (land of eternal night) to bring back an elixir with the power of immortality called Tokijiku-no-kakunokonomi ([非時香菓](https://kotobank.jp/word/%E9%9D%9E%E6%99%82%E9%A6%99%E8%8F%93-582242)) or Tokijiku-no-kagunokinomisu (非時香木実). In the text of the *Kojiki*, the Tokijiku-no-kakunokonomi is described as "kore ima tachibana nari" ("This is today's Tachibana"). *Tokoyo*? I think I've seen a video game with this name before. Anyway, from [this website](https://www.japanese-wiki-corpus.org/jp/literature/%E5%B8%B8%E4%B8%96.html) (italics by me): > **Tokoyo** is a world which is always in the dead of the night, and it is sometimes identified with yomi no kuni (*realm of the dead*) from one of the Chinese characters for tokoyo (常夜). It is a world without change, a world that is steady, without the law of cause and effect, and in a certain sense, *without a time axis*. However, since [Shinobu Orikuchi](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shinobu_Orikuchi)'s thesis "To the Land of the Dead and the Everlasting World" (1920), "Tokoyo", especially when referred to as "常世", is not simply a land of the dead, but an utopian world supposedly *located beyond or in the sea*. So, even though Seidou didn't spell it out, it seems Haine's shadow realm is (or is inspired by) Tokoyo. And that makes Haine an actual god by tying her to Japanese myths. It's a reference that will easily miss on us overseas watchers. (btw I'm not well versed in *Touhou* lore, but [a certain character] >![Eternity Larva](https://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Eternity_Larva) from *Hidden Star in Four Seasons*!< is speculated to be a god of Tokoyo.)


salic428

Finally, I selected some questions that remain unexplained in the anime. I have my theories but I want to know yours. + Why did S!Shiori (Haine) scan Shinpei in the very first loop? Haine didn't know Shinpei 14 years ago, and should she know Ushio's relationship with Shinpei, she would not know Shinpei can loop. So what's the point of scanning him? + Hizuru also arrived at the funeral, why did Haine only "recognize" her until at the Koba house (iirc that's what Haine said in the Hiruko cave), instead of trying to scan her at the funeral? + It's established that S!Mio scanned Alan in loop #4 in search of S!Ushio. But it's also established that she scanned Totsumura in loop #2 (*after* the funeral of that loop). How is that possible under the "one childbirth" rule? + In the morning of July 23rd, loop #1, Nakamura said Shinpei was searching for Hizuru. I think we all agree it's S!Shinpei, but how (and why did he decide to search for Hizuru)? + It seems Haine realized Shinpei is looping when their eyes met at the end of loop #3. But she had scanned Shinepi, how did she not learn this earlier by checking the data? (Instead, the first shadow to deduce that Shinpei is looping is S!Shinpei himself.) After rewatch with English subs: + In ep15 I mentioned how [S!Shiori appeared](https://files.catbox.moe/v2a944.png) in the new OP in place of [Haine](https://files.catbox.moe/xcc2r0.png). But after that episode it switched back, guess the data for S!Shiori is gone forever? + That "bonus time" line is a nice callback. We also get to see where that promise to protect Ushio comes from. + S!Ushio just so casually dropped that she *is* Haine's right eye, which recontextualizes a lot of things. Now I realize what that [new key visual](https://redd.it/vrti8p) means. Also in the same episode something is awakening inside her, hopefully it doesn't turn out bad. + The ED cast is never subtle with spoilers. Despite appearing in this episode, Shide is nowhere to be seen on [the cast](https://files.catbox.moe/2hq1l7.png). In addition, Konishi Katsuyuki is credited as "Karikiri" instead of his usual "[Karikiri Masahito](https://files.catbox.moe/qq9irx.png)"... At this point, I think some of you probably have reached the same conclusion [that] >!"Karikiri Masahito" is but one of the many identities of Shide.!<


EqZero

>Why did S!Shiori (Haine) scan Shinpei in the very first loop? Haine didn't know Shinpei 14 years ago, and should she know Ushio's relationship with Shinpei, she would not know Shinpei can loop. So what's the point of scanning him? Shadows target families because it's easier to get caught with a family that other people. First, Ushio got scanned, then killed. Then Mio was scanned the day before Shinpei arrives. Then Alan was scanned. Shinpei arrives and he's living with Kofune so it makes sense to scan him.


salic428

> he's living with Kofune Oh, I forgot Haine scanned Mio before and S!Mio can report to her about Shinpei. It's solved then.


gamria

Since we're on the topic of computer analogy, here's a tidbit that very few people are aware of: according to a 2021 post-story interview with author Yasuki Tanaka, the title of the series was named after the concept of [Real-Time Rendering](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real-time_computer_graphics) (AKA Real-Time Computer Graphics). According to Wikipedia, this is "the sub-field of computer graphics focused on producing and analyzing images in real time. The term can refer to anything from rendering an application's graphical user interface (GUI) to real-time image analysis, but is most often used in reference to interactive 3D computer graphics." So all the terms like data, scan, copy and print? Fully intentional and thematic. One can perhaps say that the Shadows are rendering their data into a 3D form all the time.


salic428

> according to a 2021 post-story interview Actually [someone conjectured](https://old.reddit.com/r/anime/comments/u3xdci/summer_time_render_episode_1_discussion/i4s6ils/) that it's a computer analogy back when the first episode aired. Props to them. btw are you a source reader back when it was ongoing, or has link to said interview? I'd be interested to check out.


gamria

Still very few, but it's heartening nonetheless to see someone pick up on the detail I started reading STR when it was serialising yes, on the Japanese Shonen Jump Plus website. Got onboard when it was leading into endgame. (I regret being so late: between me judging a book by its cover and treating it as the Monday "rival" to Jigokuraku: Hell's Paradise on the SJ+ daily rankings, I made a mistake) As for the interview with Yasuke Tanaka-sensei (田中靖規) and his editor Katayama (片山), here it is. [Part 1](https://news.livedoor.com/article/detail/20440768/) and [Part 2](https://news.livedoor.com/article/detail/20440788/) It's all in Japanese though


salic428

> Got onboard when it was leading into endgame Everywhere I go, this manga seems to have flown under the radar during its run. It's a shame. Also, the other day I watched a talk between mangaka Tanaka Yasuki and anime director Watanabe Ayumu, you can find some nice info [here](https://old.reddit.com/r/anime/comments/wgg9v0/casual_discussion_fridays_week_of_august_05_2022/ij6lj7c/). Most importantly, the mangaka [says] >!the anime project was decided around volume 10, which should be covered in the next 2 episodes!<.


gamria

Indeed, STR just seemed destined to lurk in the shadows. Though with the original Japanese serialisation, I will remark that between the deceptive "branding" of the series and starting serialisation at the same time as Jigokuraku, things really didn't help. Especially since Jigokuraku garnered way more (well-deserved) acclaim from the get-go, allowing STR to be... overshadowed. Thanks for the Watanabe talk, let me point to you something neat: according to the interview I linked above, Tanaka-sensei had thoroughly planned out the whole story, complete with flowcharts for which characters are doing what when and where per Loop. Next episodes ought to be interesting, I'm already trying to figure out which chapters will be adapted and how as-is. Also, I have to snicker at the casting of Ushio's VA


theyawner

I've only read the first few chapters of Jigokuraku, but when Mangaplus started a streamlined release, STR was also overshadowed by the bigger titles (MHA, Demon Slayer, Chainsaw Man).


gamria

That's the thing that easy to mistake by those who've never visited the Shonen Jump Plus site: they tend to conflate it and MangaPlus together. Both house a catalogue of older works that's largely only accessible via subscriptions, but a distinction ought to be made - the latter mainly serves to simulpub: * all the series from: the Weekly Shonen Jump magazine * only a few series from the Young Shonen Jump magazine * only a sample of series from the Shonen Jump Plus Thus to the English readers, it's like they're there to "compete" with each other. But that's not how it works in Japan, they each did their own thing. This is why I didn't bring up MangaPlus in my telling: it is the popularity of the Plus series that will (help to) contribute to their presence on MangaPlus, not the other way around. \--- The Plus site is a web manga platform that's meant to be experimental and not have to compete with stuff from the main magazine. There are still undiscovered delights that English readers have never encountered


mgedmin

So if S!Ushio is Haine's right eye, what's in Shinpei's eyesocket??? A little piece of Ushio???


salic428

> A little piece of Ushio That's some good shipping material /s Well, have you heard of the wacky theory of John Wheeler's [One-electron universe](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One-electron_universe)? Basically, if Haine (and by extension, her right eye) really transcends time, there can be multiple copies of her eye in the "same" time, each having a different goal and tracing a different line in the spacetime continuum. (See the movie *[Predestination](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2397535/)*.) For example, earlier I've talked about how [the eye secured its ejection](https://www.reddit.com/r/anime/comments/w16sm5/comment/igm7z2x/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) from Haine by luring Shinpei into Hizuru's memory.


EqZero

Considering the color of the eye, it's obvious it's Ushio's. You'll just have to wait for an explanation where it came from.


Narmatonia

Regarding the conclusion in your final bullet point, \[I figured something out:\] >!I was suspicious of Karakiri, so I took a recording of his voice and pitched it down, it turns out that if you pitch his voice down roughly 20% you get Shide's voice, it's uncanny !<


NegimaSonic

>Why did S!Shiori (Haine) scan Shinpei in the very first loop? I kind of feel like this is a question that's somehow key to everything. But in case I'm not reading too much into it, perhaps she was simply just continuing to collect the Alan household family members. She got Mio, possibly Alan (next section), and was going to eat Ushio when she could for another. So Shinpei coming back was just filling in a blank. > It's established that S!Mio scanned Alan in loop #4 in search of S!Ushio. While I do accept that there may be a mistake in the show, is it really established with certainty that she scanned Alan herself? Couldn't a shadow servant be passed to obey someone else just like Tokiko and the babies? So Haine could have given S!Mio the data for S!Alan since they're in the same household and it probably be a little less for her to manage herself. I am aware the fact S!Alan first appeared out of S!Mio's shadow makes this a really hard sell, but I'm trying haha. However, another angle I still wonder is if the 1 child rule only applies if the child survives? Because I kind of wonder if everything is like a transmission from Haine. As in, when she dies, all shadows disappear. So her children are the first level of transmission and have decent signal strength to relay one more time (the grandchildren). But the grandchildren have the weakest signal so they can't produce again because they are still reliant on their parent signal keeping them in existence. So if the grandchild dies, the signal strength could be returned to full for the child and they can reproduce again. S!Mio's testimony didn't cover such a scenario. >I think we all agree it's S!Shinpei, but how (and why did he decide to search for Hizuru)? Well we do know Hizuru attacked and succeeded in killing all the Kobayakawas except Haine. Since Haine survived, she probably summoned S!Shinpei to look for her. >It seems Haine realized Shinpei is looping when their eyes met at the end of loop #3. I kind of imagine it's still like a search for information in a database. If you don't know what to ask, you won't get an answer from searching memories. And since S!Shinpei didn't realize it himself until later, her scan wouldn't do any better. The information she was likely focused on was why was he there anyway and did he have a connection to the Hizuru attack.


salic428

> somehow key to everything I think you're reading too much. This episode has collected most loose ends, now the only missing link is how Ushio came back and gave Shinpei her eye. > I am aware the fact So far, there're no other shadows that is printed and scanned by different shadows, so I think it's a hard sell. I go by the "child survival" explanation. > it's still like a search for information Mostly agree. I'm also curious how the awakened Haine deduced her timeline is forfeit and started chasing Shinpei to loop #4.


NegimaSonic

> Mostly agree. I'm also curious how the awakened Haine deduced her timeline is forfeit and started chasing Shinpei to loop #4. Probably had something to do with entrance to the eternal country. Perhaps in Shide terms, it became obvious that the "power wasn't cut" and she wasn't allowed to traverse. Probably wasn't hard to put two and two together after that.


FlameDragoon933

If you told me back in episode 1/2 that Shadow Mio would be one of the best characters in this show I wouldn't have believed you. I love the Persona 4 esque scene she had with Mio. And poor Mio too, she's been struggling with self-esteem for so long, and Shinpei being more into Ushio is obviously not anybody's fault, but it doesn't help :(


Serocco

Literally Jungian style Shadow Selves, I love it


mikeyyyyyd

Just watched ep 18, this show is god tier, such a shame more people can’t watch it due to Disney jail because this should be competing for aoty


muhmd_hornyfor9yrold

This is one of favourite anime in many years. I am glad I watching this


LeonKevlar

###Stitches! * [Shower Hizuru](https://i.imgur.com/bGQxiHb.jpg) * [Morning Group Shot](https://i.imgur.com/ZnFoEYt.jpg) * [Long Hair Ushio](https://i.imgur.com/Q5JZhxr.jpg) * [Ushio Henshin GIF](https://gfycat.com/complicatedcleargalapagosdove) Considering how Ushio opened up with Hizuru's backstory with Haine, [didn't expect her to steer the conversation towards her boobs.](https://i.imgur.com/zFqRPzs.png) I don't blame Ushio though! Hizuru went from like A-cups [to G-cups.](https://i.imgur.com/4DxnN1u.png) [Wait what the actual fuck!?](https://i.imgur.com/bGIV4JG.png) This is big! So Ushio is that section of Haine that split off from her body? So that explains why she was able to grant Shinpei Haine's eye as well as her hacking powers. If that's the case then what was she doing all these years then? Just wandering the island as a blob? And why did it pick Ushio to copy? Hmmm... [Shadow Mio laying down the truth.](https://i.imgur.com/15vxslD.png) Looks like she doesn't like watching her OG-self suffering and if [OG Mio won't tell how she feels about Shinpei](https://i.imgur.com/drPT0pX.png), she's going to do it herself. [I very much disagree with that thought Shinpei.](https://i.imgur.com/qV1OToq.png) Even if he did this for his wife, remember that Hishigata-sensei has been an accessory to a bunch of murders and cover-ups just to feed Haine. [Even Tokiko herself can't see her own father](https://i.imgur.com/hR4NQ27.png) being the good guy. [Tokiko makes an excellent point here.](https://i.imgur.com/KHug96K.png) I don't think we've seen Shinpei go to sleep ever since he started going through loops. I'm amazed he can still function all this time considering how he's been awake for more than 48 hours now. [Nezu sneaking out got me nervous](https://i.imgur.com/SIpX7FK.png). Turns out that he just wants to go home so he can [finish off his own wife](https://i.imgur.com/HkAl9M8.png) that's been turned into a Shadow. :( So as long as Shinpei isn't continuously looping, [it looks like he can gain more time for his loops.](https://i.imgur.com/b1rPsTt.png) Thank fucking good. Not sure how much he has now but he should at least have a couple of loops in him now before he reaches the edge again. [I absolutely love Ushio's mahou shoujo transformation](https://i.imgur.com/yk7rnYN.png) when Mio gave her some of real Ushio's hair she found in her room and the bathroom. It may not be able to heal Ushio completely but at least her hair is back to its usual length. [After seeing how their old school teacher was so awesome](https://i.imgur.com/c9oIn1e.png), it sucks to know that she's now become a Shadow. [And even in her dying Shadow form](https://i.imgur.com/3hUgASw.png), she still complimented Shinpei after seeing him again. :( [I guess these kids that they saved are in on the secret](https://i.imgur.com/2gUQuNU.png) but it looks like Shinpei and Ushio didn't tell them what happened to the real Hitobuchi-sensei. [Well that was fucking scary.](https://i.imgur.com/vcbZZy9.png) For a second there, Ushio started talking as a different person. Well, looks like her worry about turning into someone like Haine might not be that unreasonable after all. >_< [And that final scene!](https://i.imgur.com/ustoHCw.png) Finally! Karikiri is going to be relevant to the story! I've been waiting for him to do something. I don't trust that smile though. I wouldn't be surprised if he's involved with the Shadows. I hope Shinpei has Ushio with him right now.


salic428

> why did it pick Ushio Back at ep14 I commented this eye seems to have a will of its own, it lured Shinpei into Hizuru's memory to observe (and render truth) its split from Haine. Now it seems the "will" is the good Haine. The raw eye wandered the island for 14 years, possibly scanning here and there. Even if it didn't choose Ushio, sooner or later it will find another kind-hearted human to scan, and we'll see a version of *Summer Time Render* from their perspective. > he's been awake for more than 48 hours now Doubt it. The calculation is as follows: The last time we see him wake up is 06:45, July 23rd of loop #4 (ep8). Loop #4 ended at 21:00, July 23rd. (Total: 14 hours.) Loop #5&6 were fast, each lasting 4 hours and 1.5 hours. (Total: 19.5 hours.) Loop #7 began at 18:40, July 22nd, and Shinpei was awake at 00:00 of July 23rd. Total: approx 25 hours.


theyawner

> The raw eye wandered the island for 14 years, possibly scanning here and there. Even if it didn't choose Ushio, sooner or later it will find another kind-hearted human to scan, and we'll see a version of Summer Time Render from their perspective. I imagine the eye might have spent all those years gathering the energy to pick the timeline where it finds Ushio.


Serocco

Red Eye is the part of Hiruko that split off and became Ushio. Imagine how many other people Red Eye tried to copy that just didn't work out.


Koinophobia-

Karikiri looks very ominous with that smile. No way he isn't involved with all the shadow stuff since he's the head priest. Now that I think about it. Did we ever see if he was at the shrine during the first loop?


salic428

> if he was at the shrine during the first loop At the end of Loop #1 (episode 1), Shinpei and Mio went to the shrine to ask Karikiri about the shadow sickness, but no one answered the door. Instead Mio caught a glimpse of Shiori (now we know it's Haine) and was lured into the forest and killed.


Koinophobia-

Sorry I meant during the night of the festival near the shrine. We didn’t see him get killed by the shadows


salic428

That's true. That episode even spared time to depict Hishigata dad and Nezu during that scene, but we're not shown where Karikiri is up to.


Serocco

We also saw he has a normal shadow when Shinpei (or Hizuru, can't remember) stepped on it.


Koinophobia-

Wasn't that on the 3rd or 4th loop? Many things have happened since then.


Serocco

As someone who knows the manga, and saw EP18, I can't say shit


Koinophobia-

I will just say that I have a bad feeling about it and I cant wait for EP18


HirokoKueh

also in the end credit, he is listed as "Karikiri" this episode, instead of his full name like previous episodes, this is probably another Karikiri


Serocco

They did a great job with the Hishigata family subplot the past two episodes. They can't forgive him even though he's family. Only thing he can do now to even attempt to atone is to stop Haine and Shide. Way more realistic than Shinpei's assessment


theyawner

> I very much disagree with that thought Shinpei. > Even if he did this for his wife, remember that Hishigata-sensei has been an accessory to a bunch of murders and cover-ups just to feed Haine. Even Tokiko herself can't see her own father > being the good guy. Regardless, he was a victim of the circumstances. It seems he did not even inherit the role from his father, but perhaps from an older patriarch (a grandfather) who may have had a more imposing role in his life as a child.


gamria

Regarding Shinpei's opinion, even from the original chapter, I think the intention was less "Shinpei is correct" and more "Shinpei might've done the same thing", and he's not one to say this sort of stuff lightly. Let's imagine that hypothetically Ushio suffered some terminal illness and Shinpei was offered a chance to create an ignorant Shadow of her, would he have accepted it and become an accomplice? I half-believe he would, and he would be terrifying as an enemy. But since Ushio would be there to punch some sense into him, even such a prospect would be significantly lower.


[deleted]

[удалено]


theyawner

It's pretty much a confirmation about her claim that she was Haine's missing eye.


Serocco

Yeah, Hiruko is two people - Haine the host and the Red Eye that turned into Shadow Ushio, who gave a piece of that eye to Shinpei. So that means Ushio is basically a demigoddess


HydraTower

Which I feel gives her independence from Haine. Like since she's not born from Haine, but literally part the original, she wouldn't die after killing her.


Romi_Z

Ohhh no...


HydraTower

If you're a manga reader giving cryptic spoilers, I don't need this...


rollin340

I... I've got a bad feeling about it...


[deleted]

[удалено]


theyawner

Mio must have been bottling it all up inside. Being called as her sister's shadow was just the self-deprecating thing she can say about herself.


ritualmaker

How many death flags can you acquire in a single episode? Literally everyone: ***YES***


AnonymousTrollLloyd

RIP Short Hair Ushio. Damn you, Mio! You’ve doomed us all!


Ok_County_8815

Bucchi sensei was a real one for acknowledging Ushio’s actions when confronting the bullies. Violence wasn’t the best way to handle it, but it’s also not fair to just lie down and take the bullying. Wish there were more role models like her who make an effort to understand a child’s actions and respect them enough to think of better options rather than just tell them they’re wrong


theyawner

Buchi and Nezu's wife really underline the point on just how much innocent lives were corrupted by the shadows.


Serocco

Bucchi has the most realistic take on how violence may not be the perfect answer but it is an answer to stop cruelty


Wetworth

Episode 17 is so last week. I wanna talk about 18!


Serocco

Shit like this is why people sail the seas. This wouldn't be a problem if someone not named Disney got STR.


MejaBersihBanget

Worse news, Disney just got Bleach Thousand Year Blood War...


SpikeRosered

I'm confused, so we are going a week late because the mods consider one guys fan subs to be "the official release" and if that guys subs aren't up the next episode hasn't been released? I just watched 18. The subs were fine, even though they apparantly weren't that one guys'.


seven_worth

I got freaking downvote to hell for saying that the guy that do fast fan subs is a translator here lol. They dont consider that guys as translator and creating discussion post of the episode by using his translation apparently would get the post deleted.


Nekoking98

Who do you mean? Truello? Daddy? SneedFox? Lmao cause all those 3 are bad subs.


Disastrous_Wrap6372

Were camera really available and that too which is so advance at that time? Also it will be interesting to see how he will convince the other characters about everything that has happened.


__bacs

I just commented how perfect ep 18 and realized everyone talking about Nezu's wife.


PacoTaco321

Glad I read this first, I assumed this was current.


Unaliver

Same, too bad this sub's mods have brain damage. The anime is already not as popular as it should be because it is in disney jail, and now the mods interrupt threads for a week making it even less visible.


Rumpel1408

And the comments are already plagued by people who have seen ep 18 and try to seem clever by predicting upcoming stuff...


rulercosta

This anime is criminally underrated


Shinigami_22

I wanna talk about the funny faces


Wetworth

Yeah wtf?


[deleted]

same


Ok_County_8815

Little kids saying Shinpei and Ushio act like a married couple and several reverse princess carries. The ship is sailing very nicely


[deleted]

[удалено]


DrJWilson

Sorry, your comment has been removed. - Your comment looks like it might include untagged or wrongly-tagged spoilers. When spoiler-tagging comments, you'll have to use [] before the spoiler tag to indicate the context of the spoiler, for example `[Work title here] >!tagged text goes here!<` to tag specific parts of your text. [Find more information here.](https://www.reddit.com/r/anime/wiki/rules#wiki_tagging_comments) --- ^(Questions? Reply to this message, )[**^(send a modmail)**](http://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Fanime)^(, or leave a comment in the )[**^(meta thread)**](https://reddit.com/r/anime/search?q=subreddit%3Aanime+author%3AAnimeMod+title%3A%22Meta+Thread%22&restrict_sr=on&sort=new&t=year)^(. Don't know the rules? Read them )[**^(here)**](/r/anime/wiki/rules)^.


NegimaSonic

*blinks* wait wait wait. It was a safe assumption that the good part of Haine got split off...but to find out that was S!Ushio herself is..unexpected. So Ushio giving Shinpei the eye at the beginning of the show wasn't because she found it..it was a part of her. It also explains why she has memories of the old Hishigata clinic. Still, as with most things, this doesn't solve everything. After all, what was she doing for 14 years? Huh. Well I always figured there was something to what Nezu did during the bad end, but I wouldn't have figured this. Not only that. Nezu has been only doing this two months. I had kind of assumed he'd been a shadow hunter for years and years since the incident. Short hair Ushio fans in shambles. I do like both though. Finally meeting the priest time up next!


salic428

> what was she doing for 14 years My theory is, since it was part of Haine, the right eye has a higher concentration/density of that shadow mud, and has enough storage for both personality data of Ushio and Haine (good). S!Ushio's body *is* the whole eye. In ep9 I noted how we never saw who copied Ushio during the trash collecting event, now I guess it's the wandering eye. (Also, Karikiri said the trash would not be burnt until the summer festival, perhaps he sensed the eye on that beach and was trying to sort it out.) The eye tried too hard on copying that it overwrote its data and "forgot" it was Haine.


NegimaSonic

Probably the most logical conclusion about the eye copy because I always felt it was a little weird how S!Ushio could exist and nobody seemed to be the parent. Which sort of implied there was an ally but no ally to this point would make sense. I had even wondered if S!Ushio time traveled back to print herself in loop#0, but the shadow printing shadows conversation destroyed that option too.


ObvsThrowaway5120

Just gonna repost my thoughts from the removed thread for this episode: Right off the bat we get some unexpected light Nagumo fan service. I thought Ushio was gonna ask Nagumo about her relationship with Heine, not if she could touch her boobs because she got hella stacked in those 14 years haha. Ushio can be such a goof sometimes! Man, Shadow Ushio really laying it all bare huh? Calling Mio “Ushio’s real Shadow” is some harsh truth. Hopefully this is the push Mio needs to be true to her feelings and get out from under this whole inferiority complex she has. Sou isn’t a monster. He couldn’t ever be burdened with that secret. Tokiko shouldn’t have been burdened with it either. How fucked for a dad to put that on his kid. I was a little curious to see what old man Nezu was doing. Didn’t expect his wife to be a shadow. Poor guy…being made to put his wife down like that is tragic. But man, glad the team made it through the night. Little Ushio was a real firecracker. So cute! Bucchi sensei was really kind, she didn’t deserve to get Shadowed. Shinpei at least avenged her. Shinpei getting stuck in the tree really undercut how badass he was when he took out Bucchi lol. Ushio’s eye was kinda freaky. Almost like she wasn’t herself for a minute. But interesting Haine and the Shide can’t really heal properly since their physical bodies have long since gone. With these shadows in hiding until the big night, it’s gonna be tense. Very keen to see what goes down next week. I wonder what Karikiri’s role in all this is.


NegimaSonic

> Shide can’t really heal properly since their physical bodies have long since gone. I get Haine, but Shide seems to be human form so he still has his physical body which had his hand being wrapped in bandages. I feel this is basically giving us a clue about his shadow form, that it is made of (partially?/completely?) other shadows.


ObvsThrowaway5120

Having seen the latest ep, I know more but at the time I wasn’t sure.


Hsaputro

Wow finally the thread is here. Super late but. Here we are. I forgot what I want to say.. Ok.


robotboy199

dang I just watched the SneedFox version of this episode literal hours before SlyFox decided to come back. SneedFox was decent but had a fair share of noticeable timing and spelling errors. for this ep get SlyFox for sure now that it's finally out. if y'all don't want to wait for SlyFox for ep 18 then i'd suggest grabbing the NanDesuKa raws and "SneedFoxFix" sub file on the cat site, and letting your video player load the subs. of course you'll have to wait for SlyFox for the discussion thread but for anyone wanting to watch ep 18 *now* that's your best option


FlameDragoon933

SneedFox version has some mistranslation too, like during the Hizuru shower scene for example. (I didn't compare the entire episode tho)


robotboy199

at least it's better than the "Daddy" subs which are made by someone who literally does not know any Japanese whatsoever and hardsubs his releases to stop people from stealing them, and re-encodes already terrible looking TV rips


Wurzelrenner

> hardsubs his releases to stop people from stealing them, and re-encodes already terrible looking TV rips i just watched both versions and apart from that they aren't really that bad, did i miss something?


zsmg

There is a SneedFoxfix version for episode 18, so hopefully that's a bit better translation wise.


Serocco

SlyFox is the closest we have to an official release and that man needs help so we don't have week long delays like this


cc4cc7

what...I think it's Episode 18 this week, and it is awesome


[deleted]

[удалено]


unrisen

Damn the doctor is finally spilling the beans and shinpei finally pulled up at the shrine? Can't wait for next week


akaki_hiromu

I will miss short hair Ushio so much, the hair and the bang looks really nice on her


muhmd_hornyfor9yrold

This show has peaked so many times


Game2015

So episode 18 soon or until next week? Feels awkward as it is now to be a week behind...


zsmg

Welcome to old school fansubs where fansubs are week(s) behind the Japanese releases. For example at some point Gintama fansubs were 50+ episodes behind the latest Japanese release.


Game2015

I just hope it won't decrease the number of posts. Episode 18 is batshit insane and will be a shame if it got the lower end of the stick because of the delay.


zsmg

Oh I agree, sadly enough I don't think reddit episode discussions favours inconsistent release schedule unlike forums.


Game2015

This episode seems to be getting a good number of replies so far, so things should look good for episode 18 when it comes out.


Serocco

Most episodes were actually on time with SlyFox before now tbf


Tetrisash

No way to tell. From his upload descriptions it sounds like he has a hellish work schedule, I'm guessing in medical. Between that and people harassing him over his "slowness" I'm surprised he hasn't just rage quit. At the end of the day, I'm miffed at Disney and only feel thankful for Slyfox.


Game2015

I think the mods should still give the other subbers a chance. Regardless of quality, you have to appreciate their efforts for making things accessible to audiences.


theyawner

The trouble though is that they might be introducing some confusion over the details for an information dense show. I've seen it a a few times on earlier episodes where it became apparent that they were basing their comments on a mistranslation.


Serocco

That's the problem right there. Mistranslations lead to misinformation which leads to plot holes, especially in a show like STR


mikeyyyyyd

ep 18 is out wym??


Game2015

It's out in Japan already, and some people have subbed it already. Episode 17 came out last week, but SlyFox, the best subber for this show, didn't sub it until a week later (today). Who knows when he will release 18...


mikeyyyyyd

ohhh mbmb, I thought the subs were a bit off so makes sense


l_lawliot

SneedFox already has EP18 out (although I haven't watched it yet). Grab the fixed subs as well.


Game2015

I know, but this place only accepts SlyFox, so no discussions until then...


Rumpel1408

Well, this is awkward, just ranted that this weeks episode would not get an thread as well. I get that Slyfox is the best, but I saw perfectly viable subs for this a week ago...


Lemurians

Granted, I'm not plugged in to the know the sources or anything, but I'm pretty sure the subs I watched last week are the same I've been watching the whole time. Don't understand the fascination with waiting for one specific source [](#yuishrug)


Srikkk

If so, then you weren't watching SlyFox releases for the past 17 weeks, that's for sure. Not sure which source. I'm not sure whose I watched last week, but I remember noticing a couple fairly apparent mistranslations. They also did the whole "Wakayama-ben is a Southern accent" thing. Overall, they're not bad, but the insistence on waiting for SlyFox comes from the fact that SlyFox subs are closest to an official, professional quality we can get.


captain002302

Where can I find the slyfox sub?


Guaymaster

The usual cat place


captain002302

sorry i don't follow. Cat place?


lilachocolate

It's for localization consistency. The person behind slyfox's subs is a long-time fansubber who actually knows what they're doing.


salic428

People keep saying "SlyFox is the best", but I don't know enough Japanese to verify the claim. I myself use Chinese subs (which come out approximately 8hrs after broadcast) for writing the essays, and their quality seem fine. Really, someone should do a translation notes or side-by-side sub comparison. Maybe not in this thread, but in the daily general discussion thread.


qwertastas

There was a pretty egregious translation error in the non-SlyFox ep 9 English subs. I don't remember exactly what it was at this point, but it had to do with the day Ushio filmed the beach video and the timeline not matching up to when Totsumura received Ushio's phone. I thought it was a giant plot hole, but it turned out to be mistranslated after I listened more closely.


lilachocolate

the "perfectly viable subs" were not perfect nor viable, they were based on a dude who literally doesn't know japanese copying lines from the manga into the anime. that's a terrible way to sub and doesn't actually count in addition, the person doing the "perfectly viable subs" is hardsubbing into the video which runs very contrary to the generally collaborative anime scene, so people can't even edit their script to fix errors without a tedious OCR process. all-in-all, they're bad subs which should be avoided.


Elitealice

Yea he must be friends with the mods or something because def other solid choices.


KendotsX

>he must be friends with the mod [](#laughter) SlyFox/herkz is actually the one running r/anime in secret.


Serocco

Never did I think torrent memes would go mainstream until now lmao


janitory

"Funny how you release it on Friday morning when someone uploads it first, and on Saturday/Sunday when no one does. Don’t know if it’s because you’re too lazy to time the lines, so you wait for someone to do it and then use some python script to OCR the lines and get the timing or someting… but glad if it motivates you to procrastinate less, lol."


lixyna

Funnie howo you wewease it on fwidaie mownim when someone upwoads it fiwst, and on satuwday/sundaie when no one does. don’t knowo if it’s because you’we too wazie to time da wines, so you wait fow someone to do it and dan use some python scwipt to ocr da wines and get da timim ow someting… but gwad if it motivates you to pwocwastinate wess, wow


herkz

The cartel controls everything.


Ok_County_8815

I’m gonna miss short-hair Ushio so much, but at least the longer hair literally makes her stronger


MejaBersihBanget

The fansub community drama between Luxury, SlyFox, and SneedFox is taking me back to 2005. Damn son


bandannadann

SlyFox has not abandoned us!


swayzrea

The fan subbers for this series are at full out war


UncleKrystalinda

Don't read salic428's comments, he is a manga reader posting spoilers as his own theories. I have already blocked him from my main account because he messed up a very important reveal


TheMagicianOfLies

The calm before the storm type of episode with the much-needed and the absolutely necessary Hizuru fanservice. Even the memories in this series are unpleasant. It's kinda sad how kids are also being targeted in this show and how vulnerable they can be to the Shadows.


Serocco

Ushio and Hizuru fanservice is always top tier and never invasive, usually pretty respectful of the girls, I dig it


ClBanjai

Isn't this last week's episodes? I don't know what I should talk about since I just watched today's episode. Yep, that shit was tense


Abomb007

Episode 18 was the best episode so far for me!


[deleted]

[удалено]


excluded

This sub is whack man I thought I was losing my shit.


seppukor

Just when episode 18 dropped. Things are getting crazier by the episode and this roller coaster hasn’t peaked yet.


ThespianException

I accidentally posted my Ep18 thoughts in this thread for a sec before I realized what was happening. Good thing I noticed before I got banned for spoilers or something


burger4life

0/10 worst episode ever. Give us back short hair Ushio!


Dabest0824

Where’s the episode 18 discussion thread?


entinio

[Shinpei entering the temple with Ushio-watch](https://i.imgur.com/lPDmYz1.png) [Ushio, where did you jump away in that temple?](https://i.imgur.com/gpaym43.png) May be a continuity error, who knows... I want to thank Pikari Teshima again, always providing great french subs and typesettings for this unlicenced anime in France, just 1 up to 2 days after the japanese display. Their work was already amazing on Komi.


TerriblePlays

Sleeping with your bullet-hole-ridden shirt on is a mood. Speaking of which, it's rare to see animes actually draw their characters' clothes with bullet holes damage throughout different scenes. Normally, it's like their clothes can naturally regenerate or something. Uh oh, Mio said the thing! And with the temple guy at the end...


top2000

..why is the thread following fansub instead of official release schedule? 18 is out already


NegimaSonic

[This comment chain](https://www.reddit.com/r/anime/comments/uymc3j/summer_time_render_episode_7_discussion/ia57xnb/) provides some context of the past decision when they tried to allow another option. So it seems like it was acceptable at one point to go with another choice but enough people felt there were mistakes enough to put it on hold. It's hard to say which is the right choice since the community rarely has to deal with delays to this extent nowadays. And for what it is worth, an episode 17 thread was made [but deleted.](https://www.reddit.com/r/anime/comments/wh9i43/summer_time_render_episode_17_discussion/). Found it by following the old thread links back, they link to the wrong ones now. So episode 18 is also up and removed as well.


kappaderickz

No threads for the latest eps each week is just sad tho


NegimaSonic

It is. But let's hope that maybe this was one bad week for SlyFox and he will get the next episode out within 24 hours, then we will be basically around the usual delay.


DadAsFuck

not a bad way to start off the episode


Cold_Ad8276

watch ep 18 asap \~


nezeta

It's a shame we can't discuss about the hottest episode anymore but only a week later, especially since the episode 18 was so good. ​ EDIT: As for 17, while not really bad or filler, I'm afraid the score might be the lowest or even sub 4.0 because it has no drama or battle. But 18 will be likely to be very close to 5.0.


philltastic1

Bump 17! I need my ep18 discussion thread to talk about that!!!!


Happyhotel

How are you all watching this?


Serocco

Search up SlyFox Summertime Rendering. I can't link to certain sites otherwise.


LusterBlaze

that the sharingan


dreadiplomat110

big oof


Alert_Fudge

Ep was good as usual:)


captain002302

Where can one find slyfox subs asking for a friend?


El_Jerrynator

No shimpei, the Doctor is a terrible terrible person and he doesnt deserve forgiveness, he deserves consequences for his actions, dont try to put "he isnt a bad person" bs on me.


Game2015

A friend of mine says most Americans believe in "an eye for an eye" and don't believe in redemption. It's only being proven to be more and more correct everyday... If you don't forgive others, this means you don't want to be forgiven yourself too.


El_Jerrynator

Im mexican.


Serocco

The fact that the doctor's family disagrees with Shinpei says it all.


4twinkie

Just seen ep 18, show of the season cant wait for the next one


SYZekrom

[Just staring at her crotch](https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/994943454385807400/1007640326460162151/unknown.png)


Serocco

Totally understandable tbh


Hey_just_asking

I thought this was the episode 18 discussion thread for a sec.


Areum_Fanny

Where is episode 18 discussion??


NintendoMasterNo1

Why is there no episode 18 discussion thread? It was really good.


gaganaut

Episode 17 isn't that fresh in my memory now but I must say that episode 18 is awesome. I hope the discussion thread for it doesn't get delayed like 17.


Novelle_1020

unrelated, but where’s the episode 18 discussion? it came out yesterday


ThePackLeaderWolfe

Whats going on wheres the episode 18 discussion thread? From what i can attain from the comments the mods are just sucking some translators dick or something which is why its only up to episode 17??


[deleted]

if it makes you feel better myanimelist are discussing ep 18


jnnadin

Episode 18 was absolutely mind blowing


Elitealice

No way episode 17 thread just went up? Slyfox fell off


[deleted]

[удалено]


randomawarenessman

Uh this thread is for the past week episode


RascalNikov1

Well, this is a predicament, I just watched 18 and I don’t really remember 17. What to do, what to do.


endtheillogical

Why is this kinda late? Coz damn episode 18 is so thrilling