By - Amethyst-Diamond-45
God damn is "transbians can't be butch" a weird take. This isn't the 1940s, women can present however they want.
Terfs: Gender is a construct, just because I don't shave or wear makeup doesn't make me any less feminine.
Also terfs: That transgender person is wearing trousers. Clearly a man.
Terfs have such misogynistic ideologies while pretending to be feminists. Like reducing women to their anatomy and ability to carry children in order to exclude trans women. I’m cis, but I have PCOS, as well as fertility issues in my family, so it would likely be extremely difficult for me to have children biologically. When I mention this, terfs are like “well I didn’t mean people like YOU” and I’m like “you literally just said that people who can’t become pregnant aren’t women??”
This 100%. according to r\*wling logic you need to menstruate to be a woman and people who don't aren't women and people who do are. this means once you go through menopause you are no longer a woman according to our favorite (least favorite) author.
Yeah, we girls/women are not just some baby-making machines. There is more to us than just having ovaries and uterus.
It's not like having those are predetermination of genitals or AGAB either.
I'm AMAB but ended up with a (mostly undeveloped) uterus. 🤷🏻♀️
Most of these bigots scream about biology and chromosomes and genitals while completely ignoring the fact that there is so much diversity out there.
Don't worry, constantly moving the goal post is pretty much Bigory 101. If you've already selected your major in Hating Yourself and Women in General then it might go under Terf 101, it's pretty much the same class with except for some homeworks the teacher gives are different.
The goalpost bit is spot on. If they were ever to meet a post-everything intersex trans woman with a healthy uterus, they'd still go with "socialized as" or chromosomes. Their arguments have no scientific or statistical bias, only an emotional and bigoted one
I also used to be a TERF myself (now I heavily regret that), I hated trans people because I thought they want to reinforce gender norms, but later when I discovered trans subreddits on Reddit, I realized I was absolutely wrong and I was a bigot back then, I really regret that.
I think a lot of people dipped their toes into TERF-ism for a few years in the earls 2010s because of how much misinformation and misrepresentation was out there. for a long time, the only trans representation that existed was on problematic trans people. Which yeah, every community has a problematic subsections of people, but it leads to stereotypes and unfounded biases when trans women or black men are ONLY ever being represented by depicting the absolute worst those demographics has to follow.
Everyone I know who admits to having been in what looking back were some TERF-y corners of the internet seems to have the same story of "I was hardcore feminist, I saw terrible people who identified as trans women being extremely problematic and sexist and perpetuating harmful norms against women (or more often being used as a tool by others to perpetuate these idea), but then I actually met some trans people and it turns out they're just normal people trying to live a life where their reflection doesn't send them into a suicidal spiral."
Jk Rowling would actually be a super cool case study in the online radicalization of feminist spaces in the early 2010s, not unlike what we saw happen with adolescent boys, YouTube conspiracy theories, and the alt-right. Both groups take kernels of truth and then use those kernels to lure in young or otherwise impressionable groups into escalating those beliefs (Caitlyn Jenner *does*suck, and she is toxic sexist trash who's identity as a woman is rooted in harmful stereotypes. But so are a lot of cis women and I don't see anyone freaking out about the churches the way they do about trans friendly bathroom setups.) Rowling is in an age demographic that consistently fails to discern trustworthy from untrustworthy sources of online media, and struggles to distinguish if something online is serious or satire based on context clues. Mix in that her version of progressivism has been viewed as regressive by actual leftists for well over a decade and way too much free time to lurk on the internet, and it's no wonder that TUMBLR feminism birthed so many TERFS
You learned. Your mind was open to the fact that evidence contradicted a position you held, and so you abandoned that position.
Don’t regret that you once believed something harmful, celebrate that you questioned your assumptions and changed your belief - that’s a positive thing which should always be celebrated!
I guess we have the right to be deluded at some point of our lives and what's important is that we overcome those pits of hell. If I were cis, I could have become an incel before that was even a thing because misogyny was rampant on my teen years. And I say, if I were cis, because there was always something that kept all that rage and resentment inside while I empathized with women in everything. I regret being that dumb for so many years, but I guess my environment wasn't helpful. I met my first gf and I became such an invested (trans)feminist that I cracked and many things started to make sense.
Reddit helped someone be LESS transphobic? Wow. 👏🏿👏🏿👏🏿
IKR, TERFs accuse trans people of enforcing gender stereotypes, but they also invalidate GNC trans people.
Nah, terf would say something about a woman's jaw or her hairline because being a terf directly stimulates the phrenology center of the brain.
It seems like a waste of time for a true feminist to go after and put down trans people. Feminism should be open to any human being who cares about women's issues and rights. Shutting the door on your own supporters is a good way to lose support and shut down your own issues.
Sorry, I’m a bit behind, what are terfs ? Thank you !!
Trans Exclusionary Radical "Feminists". Social conservatives and reactionies that have co-opted feminist gender-theory to justify blatant transphobia. Because of the fact that a lot of vocal transphobia has become completely entangled with "feminist" thought (paticuarly in places like the UK) the term terf has become synonymous with publicly active mainstream anti-trans activists.
Ohhh, okay thank you. And that’s fucking stupid, if they’re feminists, they should support trans people too !! Idk their reasoning doesn’t make sense lmfao
Most terfs will unironically call themselves feminists with one breath and say that trans women aren't women because women have "xx chromosomes" or "women have a uterus." They will reduce being a woman to bodies to exclude trans women, while also often rejecting gender non-conformity
It's biological reductivism or biological essentialism.
If you've heard those terms before alarm bells should already be ringing, if you haven't it's saying all human behaviour, rights, and social roles are determined by our biological development.
And yes, it's pretty obvious what that means for AFAB people, it's the same as what incels consider women "for".
Ugh jeez, that’s annoying. Ffs when will people realize that your sex isn’t your gender ?!
Oh, the issue usually goes deeper than that, sadly. Take JK Rowling as a great example, her most recent book has a villain who dresses as a women to kill. It's literally just what Terfs think trans people are; potentially dangerous, mentally unsound men pretending to be women to take advantageof women's spaces....
That fear is informed by Rowlings own sexual assault (which she brought up herself when she tried to defend a transphobic comment she made). She's projecting her fear onto trans women, as a lot of terfs who aren't conservative often do.
Right? Transbians can be whatever the fuck type of 'bians they please.
shameless hijack but r/mtfbutch living proof
Tbh as a cis woman Ive never even had to think about that one, but I can imagine it. One of my good friends is a trans guy/ace and he struggles with how he wants to do things like grow his hair out or paint his nails without getting misgendendered.
I know cis men that have long hair and paint their nails. It's pretty gnc but they're still men same as your friend would be. Most people that would misgender him for doing so will likely midgender him anyways unfortunately
Yeah. Ive told him that. He has a lot of childhood trauma and stuff (me too) and even if he knows it logically it's still hard for him to convince himself it's okay.
Tell your friend that a random internet stranger is saying he's absolutely valid.
Yeah! Travis McElroy rocks painted nails and hair and he's manly AF.
Tell him that another internet stranger also supports him and agrees that he is absolutely valid!
I screenshotted it and sent it to him ❤
Hopping on the support train because your friend is absolutely valid and a beautiful soul and should be reminded of this!!
Come on everyone we got more spots on this train so jump on!
He said he was currently painting his nails when I texted him and sent hearts
this is me (here as an ally), I really want to wear a skirt but im scared lol
As a former butch lesbian (now FtM) this “argument” is bizarre to me — and massively misogynistic! Women can dress, act and behave in ways that are not typically and traditionally feminine. Femininity is not a monolith. Inferring otherwise is just sexist and is not just harmful to trans women but to all of them. Well, it impacts all of us on a broad scale too — I would love to harness my divine feminine energy without my own identity being invalidated too. Or scorned because we treat being feminine as the least desirable outcome. Silly. To all butch/GNC transbians — **dress however the fuck you want!** You are killing it.
r/MTFButch for all you trans women who have masc or masc-adjacent expression.
Bless you, trans butches. I'm not trans but my gender identity is literally butch, and I hate how people conflate masc expression with masc identity. You guys are valid af.
Same, I'm also cis and my gender expression is soft butch/moderately masc, i made this post to validate them.
😲 hello my people!
The gender envy I get from looking at that sub lol. I really wish I was able to pull of a more masculine leaning look without coming across as a man.
Yeah it's uncomfortable feeling like you need to overcompensate with how fem you present in order to pass. Personally I really like dressing like that anyways, but I could imagine it being really sucky if you felt forced to present yourself in a certain way.
Those are feelings... But at the end of the day it's subtle things that can make a difference, and confidence goes a long way.
Like, assuming you're wearing the same flannel shirt and jeans as you already have: Pull the jeans up slightly more, wear a low cut cami under the flannel, and only do it up to the button 2 inches below the neck hem of the cami, then roll the sleeves up to just above the elbows. Even plain makeup helps, even if you can barely see it!
It sounds ridiculous, but it really does make a difference.
Thanks for the shoutout :) We can’t wait to see all of y’all over here!!
Honestly fuck those stereotypes. I’m gonna wear a Slayer tank top whenever tf i want.
Edit: Btw, just a question for everyone. Is cutting off the sleeves and widening the arm holes for better air flow on a t-shirt mangling it? My mom has been yelling at me for it and i think she’s fucking dumb.
Yeah, be happy being yourself. :D
Nope that is being creative and resourceful and pure amazing! It’s also a legit thing people have always done - t-shirts are like a basic design one can style however and sometimes that involves scissors for cutting off armholes, changing necklines, cropping, fringing etc Maybe give her that perspective...it’s not thrashing clothes in a negative way, it’s making awesome styles that you like!
My mohawk says "fuck you"
Haha, Your comment is really funny.
Thanks. I try lol
Throw the whole idea that trans women need to be hyper feminine away
the whole idea
Or that they need to pass or be feminine at all, or that they need to medically transition. It’s all a fucked-up culture we don’t need.
God damn, I love to see this kind of stuff. I struggled with my presentation for years in an effort to avoid misgendering, but slowly started presenting more masculine in the past year. I've always loved things like short hair, comfortable clothes, and strong women, but assumed those things couldn't apply to me if I wanted to be seen as valid.
Now, I enjoy being just a few steps shy of biker dyke. Occasional misgendering be damned, I like how I look and I know for a fact that I'm hot
I’ve honestly mastered the vibe of Butch lesbian, my friends tell me I just resonate Butch lesbian vibes, so yes, trans women can indeed be Butch lesbian. We don’t owe anyone femininity..
I get this alot from people when i tell them i’m a trans tom boy
Like, i dont mind the whole ‘pretty in pink’but it aint my style, i’d love to wear darkish colours and leggings withmy skirt evtect
This is a stereotype??? Man. I feel so sheltered sometimes. Lol.
Yes, unfortunately, trans women are stereotyped as hyper feminine women.
Well a lot of trans women do like being hyper feminine. It’s still just as valid as every other expression, though.
True, but growing up and being inundated with all that imagery while on the early parts of trans internet was one of the biggest hurdles for me in figuring out my gender. I thought I couldn't be trans because I wasn't feminine enough, even though I've had crushing dysphoria for as long as I've remembered.
Luckily, it seems to be better nowadays. I really hope trans kids don't feel the same pressure to conform to gender norms nowadays.
So yes. I very much agree with your post! Trans women can be any kind of lesbian they want! :)
Trans women suffer from a warped "damned if you do, damned if you don't" misogyny. If we are feminine, then we are living out a sexist fantasy of womanhood. If we are masculine, then we are obviously just men who call ourselves women.
So it's not really a stereotype so much as you're not actually allowed to be anything at all as a trans woman. The same is true for sexuality. We can't be gay or straight because they have a pathological explanation, complete with published papers, for both.
Yeah me too. I'm so happy growing up as trans woman in an offline safe space that gives a frick on gender norms. It really helped me settle with my identity early on.
But like, what if that's what you want? People need to let people people they way they wanna person.
trans tomboys, too! r/GuildValkyrie
Yes! Burn it!
Not a binary trans woman (despite the flair) but heck yeah I'm butch
edit: also hi lol deidre
hey skye :P
Yes! There's nothing less butch, less lesbian or less lovely about a trans butch woman. Love yall.
Trans women can present however the fuck then want.
Am a trans woman. Am relatively butch atm. can confirm.
And you are 100% valid!
Lol. Express your gender how you want. Its none of my business.
Trust me, yes they can....they reeeeeally can >:)
One of the most liberating things in my trans journey has been reclaiming masc clothes for myself. I still definitely lean fem, but sometimes just wearing a tank top and baggy sweats (that my butt looks a lot cuter in now) is really nice
I once heard a good that eventually during your transition you end up "cautiously approaching your AGAB from the other side", i.e. re-asserting expressions usually associated with it into your actual gender. There was a trans dude on RuPaul's drag race recently that really embodied that.
Its almost like anyone can do whatever they feel like doing and dress however they want with whatever gender identity they have because imposing artificial social dress codes for people based on their gender, trans-ness, or sexual orientations is bigoted, arbitrary, and narrow minded.
This and the "trans men can't be femboys" stereotype disgust me.
Trans lesbian tomboy checking in: I hate heels to death and stopped wearing skirts and dresses years ago (I might still rock a nice goth or punk dress/skirt look tho. I don't even like makeup that much and long hair annoys me but I feel like I HAVE TO do that to not be called sir or asked if I'm a boy or girl and that shit sucks.
Still not used to thinking of myself as butch but it also strikes me as generally the correct term
Hello! We over at r/MTFButch are living proof! Come say hello :)
As a trans lesbian, I respect that
Question for clarification purposes:
Does tomboy count as butch or is it a whole category on its own?
Butch is a specific lesbian subculture, while tomboy is an umbrella term used for masculine women, including straight women. So, I guess that butch lesbians would fit in the tomboy umbrella? I know that some people do have issues with the term tomboy though, so keep that in mind!
I mean they’re different words. I guess tomboy can also be a term that straight people would use too. You never hear a masculine straight women call herself butch.
I know that for me, tomboy feels a bit more like a childish term so I don’t use it. A lot of butches were called tomboys when we were little so some still use the term. Idk just my take on it
gender nonconformity is gender nonconformity
Well, I have always thought tomboy as the synonym for butch.
I personally associate "tomboy" more with kids (was called one for being sporty but am pretty dang femme in my presentation) but I also would never like...argue with someone who referred to themselves that way! I think it's interesting to read all the different regional/age associations with words like that on here.
Then I can confirm: am butch, am trans, am happy!
True stereotypes is like illness ladies.
If that can’t be, why is this my type then???
Anyway my genderfluid butch self just gonna vibe over here, I like people like me.
Butch trans women are amazing and valid!!
there's a butch trans woman who works at my local grocery store who always flags me into her line every time she sees me and compliments my outfits and it makes me blush every time
butches make my nonbinary femme lesbian heart do a happy and trans butches are no different
Like honestly I think I get read as butch sometimes. I am really just an athlete, and my work uniform makes me look that way.
Some of us may struggle with masculinity a little bit and this statement can be so hurtful.
I identify as trans futch woman. I wouldn't mind going even more masc with leather clothes and some Marteens like a badass biker, but I'll definitely want to have a femme expression for anything else. And how can that be not valid? Fuck TERFs.
Also fuck truscums! :)
Apparently my initial comment is at the top on controversial :')
Yes, I knew I was missing someone 🤔
Thank you, sister
My first "therapist" said I couldn't be a gay man because I wasn't feminine enough. Jokes on him I'm an demi lesbian woman and I'm butch as fuck
Butch trans lesbians are amazing!
Me, a super butch transbian: *Nervous laughter*
Your valid. :)
Transbian butchers make the world go round ❤
They're also hot as heck
Don’t forget: Tall studs come in all genders! - xo this tall stud!
HELL YES SISTER
How... how does the argument even work? If you're a trans woman, then by default you are a woman. It's about as nonsensical as saying women can't be butch.
Me, a trans woman trying to radiate nerdy butch/punk tomboy energy: *nervous sweating*
I immediately scroled down to see if there are any terfs here
Am literally the most butch girl I know, dating a cis girl who is one of the most butch girls 🤷🏻♀️
Also, there is such a high demand fot butch trans girls...
There’s a demand for butch trans girls? I’ve been struggling to date here, but it could be my locale.
There's no demand for Trans women where I'm at :(
THANK YOU I’m pre HRT so the only reason I don’t go for a smol tiddie tomboy look is because of ✨dysphoria✨
Me, a trans
its literally just transphobia. if trans women are women, and cis women can be masculine, then by extension trans women can be masculine. if you disagree ur a terf
That's like me wanting to be a trans femboy top, it's definitely a thing
#Fine, I'll do it myself
Hiiii hey u