T O P

YSK: The Equal Pay For Equal Work Act (effective January 1st this year) requires all Colorado job postings to include salary and benefits. This includes any remote position valid in Colorado as well. If a company isn't complying with this law, you can report them and they'll be fined.

YSK: The Equal Pay For Equal Work Act (effective January 1st this year) requires all Colorado job postings to include salary and benefits. This includes any remote position valid in Colorado as well. If a company isn't complying with this law, you can report them and they'll be fined.

blacksoxing

*The salary is 24k to 100k, depending on education and experience*


lambuscred

This is a non issue. Government jobs post the criteria by which you’re eligible for each rate of pay in the scale. If that isn’t written in the law yet it soon will be if this happens


pilot1nspector

Exactly. It entirely depends on who is applying for the job. A lot of people seem to think company pay scales are some rigid thing that is strictly adhered to with every employee. It isn't. It shouldn't be either. Some people get paid the same amount for the same job title. Some people are lazy asses who do the absolute bare minimum to not get fired. Some people are really bright hard working people who are always trying to progress to something better. Those two types of people don't deserve the same wage and if they did get paid the same there would be no incentive to be good at or give a fuck about your job. Should companies have to disclose the minimum amount they are willing to pay for? I guess but that doesn't necessarily mean you are getting their best offer for the position anyway.


Silverpixelmate

Think this is more geared towards the shit jobs with shit pay. Basically anything under $20hr. As those jobs pay so little they shouldn’t have any requirements. And if they do, people need to know before wasting their time. Id just tweak this to exclude salaried positions. But then watch McDonald’s scramble and offer salary to their line workers.


tesla3by3

Paying front line McD employees salary is very much illegal under FLSA.


Silverpixelmate

True. But as we have seen with “independent contractors” that aren’t, they tend to find ways around shit.


AllSiegeAllTime

It's not a thought experiment, we know for a fact that they will (or the profit motive unchecked will "make" them): Send your 7 year old into a coal mine while lying about black lung being fake, have you work 14-16 hour days and six of em each week (overtime? Lol), etc. I often probably sound hyperbolic whenever I get to talk about labor laws, but each one has in some way been paid for in blood. If nothing else please don't let "but it might harm potential profit growth opportunities in the corporate sector" be more worthy of your empathy.


Silverpixelmate

Absolutely. On a different note, this is why it’s very alarming when corporations start to have increasingly more power and control. They are getting richer, destroying small businesses, create enormous monopolies and cause nearly all of the pollution in the world. They can afford to lobby government. And now they are denying employment (aka your ability to survive in this system) unless you do/don’t do specific things in your personal life. I will also point out that the largest private corporation is the Federal Reserve.


tesla3by3

I don’t doubt employers will try to find loopholes in any law to save a buck. But the McD example isn’t going to happen to any large degree. If you make someone salary, they must be paid at least $684 per week, with some exceptions that don’t apply to McD. Violating that is blatant and easily documented. That’s a lot different than the independent contractor, which can get into gray areas and unsettled case law.


_marvin22

I was thinking the opposite. This is especially geared to higher paying jobs as the scale can be larger. There should be a way to reward performance and work ethic. I hire some employees and although I pay them all the same right now, if one of them produced significantly more value and asked for a raise I would do so in order not to lose him/her.


_marvin22

And for those wondering, my employer pays them a fair salary but sometimes when the top performers feel like there is nothing to strive for, they’ll find a place that can pay them more accordingly. It doesn’t make sense to give them all a raise as they earn more than market value and most of them perform .... average


EsIstNichtAlt

Then isn’t it missing the point? I don’t think anyone is really thinking or caring about McDonalds-level pay disparity. And I doubt that even exists outside some rare exceptions. Those jobs pay bare minimum to everyone regardless.


mheat

By “bare minimum “ are you talking about the job for which one is being paid? If a company wants people to go “above and beyond” they need to make *that* their “bare minimum” and pay people more. If you do more work than what you are compensated for, then you are being scammed.


Arthur_Edens

Bare minimum to avoid getting fired. Think about it from the perspective of you hiring a tradesperson to do work on your house. You agree to a price, 50% upfront, 50% at completion of project. There are different qualities of work and professionalism that might make you say: - I'm hiring this person for anything I need in the future, and telling all my friends about them. - This was fine. I'll leave a four star review. - This wasn't ok. I had to hassle them at every step of the way to get the job done. - The work wasn't completed. We had to go to small claims over the fee. Getting fired is somewhere between those last two steps. Good work is the second. Promotion material/merit raises is the first.


kaywalsk

This. I had to deal with some medical shit at work and ended up using all my sick time, but I didn't have enough so I've got 2 occurrences. Which makes me ineligible for a raise come evaluation time. Been waiting for my boss to ask me what's changed. I plan to say any incentive to go above and beyond is dead until I'm eligible for my raise next year. Wish me luck.


Wolfeh2012

>Some people are lazy asses who do the absolute bare minimum to not get fired. Some people are really bright hard working people who are always trying to progress to something better. Those two types of people don't deserve the same wage and if they did get paid the same there would be no incentive to be good at or give a fuck about your job. Anyone who has worked at a large company can tell you this isn't true. People who are terrible at their job and barely contribute can still negotiate higher pay rates than someone who is nose-down focusing on the work and doing a good job. The best skills you could have for work if your goal is to make the most money: 1. Know when to move latterly. Other companies always pay more to poach competition. This can be as little as 1-2 years per position. Keep going to other interviews 2. Be likable during interview, focus on making the interviewer interested in you. Sometimes you can avoid the topic of credentials entirely and get hired at places you have literally no experience while getting a triple-digit salary.


erehin

I recommend the book corporate confidential by Cynthia shapiro. It's not quite as black and white as work-harder, get paid more.


lambuscred

Your logic makes sense if we lived in some fantasy world where pay is commiserate with effort. But that’s definitely it any job I’ve ever seen. You get paid the least you’re willing to take for the most you’re willing to work.


postsflowerpics

At least in trades the above comment it very true. I have a specialized job within the HVACR industry. Even though we’re union, I make well over journeyman scale. The more expensive the equipment you work on and the more specialized training you have the more you get paid. If this company won’t pay me what I’m worth then I’ll just go somewhere else that will.


Codeshark

Yeah, I can see it being relevant in trades. There's also jobs where the more you work the more you get paid like gig jobs. However, in many jobs the amount of effort you put in is not necessarily tied to the amount of money you get paid. Also, any lower level job for any business is going to necessarily generate more revenue (directly or indirectly) than it pays. Give the disparity in executive compensation versus worker compensation that difference is generally pretty big.


Seel007

Sales too. You produce you get all the spoils that go with it.


John_Fx

Value, not effort. And of course it is the least you are willing to accept. Just like every other financial transaction


lambuscred

Not commensurate with value either. It’s an arbitrary system in an arbitrary world


John_Fx

No. It is pretty much based on value.


Elenariel

*Commensurate. Although for some jobs, commiserate is definitely correct too...


kevihaa

This isn’t at all accurate. Almost all medium to large businesses have *very* rigid pay structures with explicit maximums on both salaries and annual raises based on title, regardless of performance. Exceptions are possible, but are intentionally structured to be extremely difficult to receive. They usually require a senior manager from both HR and your department to approve, and will often not actually be budgeted. Which is to say, even if you get approved for an extra $20k, the location’s labor budget isn’t actually increased by $20k, thus requiring that other aspects of the budget be trimmed. Realistically though, the only way you’ll ever get that approval is by saying you have an offer from another company. Otherwise, there’s no benefit to the organization to “overpay” you, since you’ve demonstrated you’ll do the work at the current pay. Meritocracy is a myth that benefits business owners at the expense of labor.


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Lemming1138

Unfortunately, one of the problems with unions is that they protect the lazy workers and make sure they get the same pay as the productive employees. It really causes the hard workers to wonder why they work so hard when the lazy ones still get the same pay. It is also really hard for management to fire union workers. Unions have many benefits to their employees (higher wages, can’t be fired without good cause, etc), but they also have some detriments, and both are worth pointing out. Source: am a union member


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WRDIV

This guy has never worked for a union lol


moistsandwich

I’ve been in a union for the past four years and the person you’re replying to couldn’t be more right. The people who bitch the most are oftentimes also the laziest. They like to deflect attention away from their own failures. Most of the actually hard working people kept their heads down and minded their own business. The more you focus on yourself and the less you focus on others the more you can get done.


Ihavelostmytowel

I've been a Union member for 30 years now and you're way off based with that. One lazy pos can demoralize a whole team, and while it is managements job to deal with it they often don't.


SonosArc

Your little spiel only works in an ideal world where managers reward the "hard workers" and punish the "lazy asses". What has actually been shown to be the case in the Real world not your imagination is that women and minorities are offered less while white males routinely make more for the same work. Life isn't a PBS show, people get fucked over at their job and often aren't aware of it because companies make it taboo to talk about salaries between coworkers.


pilot1nspector

I've been in the work force for quite a long time and done a lot of different jobs. I also started out on the bottom so your little rant telling me about the real world is pretty fucking funny. I believe you may be the one living in a fantasy world where everything is stacked against you to account for your short comings. The reality as I see it is the opposite of what you claim it is. If you are more valuable to the company (ie work harder, care more, are smarter) you can negotiate a better wage by threatening to leave. It doesn't matter what sex or race you are. If they need you they need you. If the company wouldn't even notice you left then yeah you probably have zero bargaining power. Obviously there are people born with rich parents and advantages, there are old boys clubs that are impossible to infiltrate, there are bad managers, there are sexist and racists in the work place but it is not the majority by any stretch. Look at it from an employer's prespective. Would you be happy to pay one person who gets shit done and takes personal responsibility the same wage for some slack ass who always fucks shit up, goes to sit on the toilet for a couple hours everyday, and never shows up on time. That's the problem with everyone getting paid the same. Products and services would be much lower in quality if companies were forced to pay their dead weight equal wages all the time.


imgonnabutteryobread

This is great news for someone without the experience or education, but with the desire to grow into the ~~role~~ career.


Codeshark

"Only a bachelor's and 5 years of experience? Best we can do is 24k" Side note: Fuck any business whining about lack of labor or having to pay more for labor because when things are reversed they're never employing anything more than the bare minimum at the lowest possible price when it comes to employees.


imgonnabutteryobread

Yes, it would suck for those with the experience and education, but presumably they would not be looking to work for someone willing to hire an unskilled or uneducated person for the same role. Or that the experienced and educated applicant is better-prepared to negotiate a realistic wage. Btw, fuck any employer looking to hire unskilled workers without a plan to train and retain.


Crazy_Is_More_Fun

That's at least *something*. And then pass a law that requires you to stick within that boundary


onduty

Why would we need a law like that? What if you come in highly qualified and offer something the company wasn’t expecting, they have to say sorry, you applied for this range, you’ll need to take a temporary pay cut. It is Nonsensical how willingly people give up their freedoms and beg for more controlling laws


DoctorWaluigiTime

> Why would we need a law like that? You've never been job hunting before, have you friend. Also fuck off with your "muh freedumbs" rhetoric. That has absolutely no application here.


John_Fx

Get a Government job then. They work exactly like you want. No consideration of merit, just pay for the number of days you filled a chair.


onduty

You mean I couldn’t possibly have looked for jobs because I’m not for paternalistic laws to control a companies ability to set their pay rates for non-entry level positions? Grow up, not everyone struggles like you or gets easily discouraged vis job postings. I job searched my entire life through different phases of skills, from high school and beyond. Never had a problem with hidden salary. why? Because I asked. Speak up, ask questions, you don’t have to apply to a job if they don’t fit your needs and won’t disclose the information you require. Move on.


wrincewind

So you think that knowing the salary is important, but you don't think knowing it ahead of time is important? You'd rather waste your time interviewing for companies that have no intention of paying you what you know you're worth?


onduty

I think picking up the phone and asking is important. I never said go through and entire interview process like a dope


the-tac0-muffin

written in 0.5 font size at the bottom of the posting *and gender and ethnicity* edit: the world needs change


blacksoxing

No no no! They're Equal Opportunity! ....Just have fun when you show up to that meeting and your name or image may not match the resume :)


ExternalUserError

That's not completely true. The law applies to any company with at least one Colorado employee. If a business has no nexus to the state, and someone from Colorado could merely *apply* for it, it doesn't affect them. Also the Rocky Mountain Association of Recruiters has already sought injunctive relief against the law, ~~though I don't know if it's been granted yet~~ though so far it hasn't been granted. A long legal battle is likely. The reason is the Dormant Commerce Clause. Basically other states that *prohibit* disclosing salary information create an impossible situation for interstate businesses. Edit: The preliminary injunction was [denied](https://www.natlawreview.com/article/injunction-denied-colorado-equal-pay-equal-work-act-stands-now) by the 10th circuit but an injunction could be granted later. Basically the court hasn't ruled on the merits of the case, just that injunctions won't come before anything else.


Flabnoodles

Other states really prohibit it? Wow our nation is screwed up. I mean, that's one of the lightest reasons why we're screwed up, but it's still bad.


ExternalUserError

It's a little more complicated than what you're thinking. Colorado's law requires that *all promotions* be advertised, basically. So for example, suppose you work in New Mexico as a Sales Analyst 1. Your boss wants to promote you to Sales Analyst 2. Under Colorado's law, which would govern the New Mexico business if it's also in Colorado, such in-seat promotions are banned since the transparency part of it requires advertising all open positions, even ones that are just in-seat promotions. To promote you, the company has to advertise that it has a Sales Analyst 2 position open, at the pay rate they plan to give you for the promotion. Since both the new position and the existing one become job openings, the company is essentially disclosing your salary, which is illegal in plenty of states.


kindledruins

Am I misunderstanding, wouldn't that job in New Mexico have to be available for remote work in Colorado or be in Colorado to be applicable under this new law?


MKorostoff

Which states make it illegal to disclose someone's salary? To be honest I find that hard to believe, given that almost every state allows your boss to fire you because you like a different baseball team than him.


unoriginalsin

>given that almost every state allows your boss to fire you because you like a different baseball team than him. It's not even almost. It's every one of them.


Thanatosst

Montana does not have at-will employment.


unoriginalsin

Yes it does. In Montana a discharge is wrongful only if: "it was in retaliation for the employee's refusal to violate public policy or for reporting a violation of public policy; the discharge was not for good cause and the employee had completed the employer's probationary period of employment; or the employer violated the express provisions of its own written personnel policy." ^Mont. ^Code. ^Ann. ^§ ^39-2-904 ^(2008) This is effectively the same as in every other state, except Montana has just codified it in a single law.


ExternalUserError

IIRC, that's the statute, but there was a court case a while ago that changed it. Case law vs statutory law is a bitch sometimes. [Stuff](https://erd.dli.mt.gov/labor-standards/wage-and-hour-payment-act/wage-and-hour-faq): > No. Montana is not an “at will” state. In some instances, the Wrongful Discharge From Employment Act does not apply, but generally, once an employee has completed the established probationary period, the employer needs to have good cause for termination. From their department of labor.


Thanatosst

So, in short, if they fired you for liking a different baseball team they would be in violation of the law, since that does not meet the criteria of "good cause" and the employee would have grounds for a wrongful termination lawsuit. So they're not At-Will, since they need a good reason, not just "I felt like it".


unoriginalsin

>So, in short, if they fired you for liking a different baseball team It would only have to be against their written policy, which cannot violate public policy.


SamL214

Many companies are still not following it though. It’s actually very frustrating.


ExternalUserError

It's really challenging to try to comply with. Imagine not being able to promote anyone, ever, without *advertising the position* for X period before doing so. If you go into your boss's office and say, "Look man, I've been busting my ass. How about a promotion?", your boss literally has to say to you, "It would be illegal for me to promote you before at least trying to hire someone who doesn't even work here first." It's crazy. And that's how it has to work at a company with like 1 employee -- if you have **one employee** you can't promote them without first trying to hire outside the company. I'm a big Polis fan, and I'm generally in agreement with most of what the Colorado legislature does, but this one is just bad news.


ShadonOufrayor2

But they don't become openings at the same time. If you get the promotion then the Analyst 2 job is filled and then the Analyst 1 job is open to be advertised. At no point would you be advertising the salary of someone in a position. The company is of course free to change what they pay for a Sales Analyst 1 job between your promotion and the advertising of the job. Advertising both roles at the same time would either require firing you or admitting that the advertisement for the Sales Analyst 2 role is just for show.


mittromneyshaircut

Why wouldn’t they be posted at the same time if they are anticipating having to backfill analyst 1? Also the salary advertised for analyst 2 would be the salary given to the newly promoted analyst 2 so it would indeed be advertising their new salary


ShadonOufrayor2

If they're advertising both at the same time they're basically admitting that the first advert is just for show. Besides, what if some amazing candidate applies for the better job? Also, I would expect the job to be advertised with a salary range so while you'd know the ballpark figure you wouldn't know what they are actually paying them.


ExternalUserError

If it's a big promotion, you'll want to fill a job before it's vacated. For example, if you jump from sales clerk to sales manager, you want to have a clerk lined up, and you'll often have the person being promoted train their replacement.


GoodAtExplaining

Most companies already put up dummy job listings tho.


Miss_airwrecka1

Not sure why you were downvoted because you’re right. I’m applying to jobs currently and realized one I applied for was a dummy post and in my current job I know we’ve posted dummy jobs due to similar requirements


ExternalUserError

Yeah, it's kind of a problem. It actually costs money to post job listings too. But the politics of that in organizations is weird.


-Tom-

I bet those states disclose sports star salaries


ExternalUserError

Probably; I don't know the intricacies of that. There's not really an expectation that information like that is private. But if you work as a file clerk, it would generally be considered at the very least deeply unethical for your boss to tell everyone how much you make.


-Tom-

They literally publish them in the paper and people hem and haw about it.


ExternalUserError

People still read the paper? Haha. Yes, sports salaries are somehow public record. Though in general they are not your typical employees.


Fiveby21

Thank you for the clarification. I heard that a court decision recently affirmed the law.


ExternalUserError

The state court, to my recollection, did. It hasn't been ruled on federally.


tkdsplitter

It sounds like it would be really easy to avoid this by completely ignoring all Colorado candidates.


ExternalUserError

If you're hiring remote professional work, the easiest avoidance would probably be making it a 1099.


SamL214

If anything it will require jobs that have to be located in the state for any reason to follow the law. That’s my guess if the injunction is ever approved.


Woodrow1701

I wish this were the case in Australia. Down here it kinda goes like this: * About the company (blurb) * About the role (blurb) * About you (qualifications) * What’s in it for you (more about the company) Your reputation doesn’t pay my bills or put food on my table. WTF is actually in it for me???? THAT’S what I’d like to see.


nomadProgrammer

Yes this so much I hate fucking waste of time just tell me salary and benefits or gtfo


DJspinningplates

Is this why you would see job postings that say “this job cannot be performed in the state of Colorado”?


RabbleRowzer

Yes - precisely.


laserdicks

Lol Colorado just decreased the amount of jobs available for its citizens lmao


kamikaze_puppy

There are enough jobs in Colorado that we don’t need to rely on remote positions to keep unemployment low. Also, if a company is not willing to even disclose a range, they probably aren’t competitive for Colorado to begin with. It’s not a crazy expectation to disclose a pay range for job. Most companies already have a budgeted pay band for the role. So why waste everyone’s time by being evasive and sneaky?


flashcats

Because they don’t want to pay the upper band for everyone.


laserdicks

Simple. Because skilled labor is rare, and if you over pay one did employee you miss the good one.


MSAndrew07

I like how instead of being mad at the others and trying to push this to be everywhere in the States, the reaction is to laugh at the state for trying to do the good thing for its employees. Like a white sheep among the black ones. The US really is a shithole, isn't it?


l0c0dantes

Why not? It's feel good legislation that prob won't do much but look good to a certain set of constituents, while actually harming others. It's politics, not altruism


Octorokpie

Maybe it looks like "feel good" legislation if you've never spent weeks going through a company's interview process only to learn the pay range wasn't worth your time to even apply. Employees should be told what's on the table before they give a company their time.


Bystronicman08

How is that funny?


laserdicks

Well they (employees in Colorado) instantly lose a section of their market and therefore bargaining power. And they think it's a good thing.


SamL214

Must balance out now. So many jobs open right now, but not enough people to fill them...


laserdicks

Yep, it always balances out. In Colorado it will just balance out with less dollars for employees who have fewer companies competing for them.


contrahall

Colorado is having an employee shortage like every other state, most jobs are paying at least 15 dollars an hour


-Tom-

Trust me, not an issue.


Quantum-Enigma

ALL jobs should be required to post the offered pay and not waste peoples time applying just to find out.


PRocci18

Does anyone know how the current state of things became the norm? Or was it always like this historically? Is it like this outside of the US? Either way, it’s incredibly frustrating. It’s no secret to anyone that pay matters SIGNIFICANTLY when considering employment options, yet employers seemingly do everything they can to obscure it. At least, here in the US.


onduty

Pay is not obscured, outside of low level hourly roles, pay rates differ based on experience and your ability to sell yourself and negotiate. You’re free to call and ask before applying, state your level of experience and ask for a range. If they refuse to answer, this isn’t the company for you A controlled salary range only limits high performers, I don’t see why anyone would want a hard control on their earning potential


abobtosis

A salary range doesn't limit high performers at all. If the range is too low, apply to a different job. Not knowing beforehand that the employer won't pay what you want only makes you waste time applying and interviewing, which is bad for both parties involved.


AdrenalineEmily

Exactly. Salary ‘DOE’. How much E? Are you going to pay more for an applicant with a masters? Even a range is fine with me. My frustration was applying to loads of jobs - to later find out the salary was $15/hr. No retirement benefits and expensive healthcare. For me, know the healthcare benefits (and the portion I will pay) is HUGE. I’m in my 30s, been working since I was 15, on my own healthcare since 21. In a little over a decade my out of pocket monthly fee for healthcare has varied from $30 to $450. All for PPOs, mostly 90/10 PPOs. I mean, sure I would rather make $20/hr than $17/hour - unless that $17/hr comes with $30/month healthcare and that $20/hr comes with $450/month healthcare. . . .


onduty

Don’t know if many salaried jobs paying $15, sounds like entry level


PRocci18

This is what I was referring to in my comment! I can’t believe the number of job postings that literally have no pay information whatsoever, not even a range. In my experience, hourly positions were more likely to have rate information than yearly salaried positions, but even then, I’d say only about 20% of the jobs I applied to had upfront compensation information. At most. I’ve even had interviewers refuse to discuss compensation! It’s one thing to not include it in your job posting, but to make me wait until the official offer?! Am I crazy for finding this unreasonable? It’s such a waste of time for both parties to do this in my opinion, but what do I know… I’m not in HR, so maybe there’s a really good reason. All I know is that I’ve rejected a dozen offers because of the insultingly low offer that I would’ve never even considered nor interviewed for had I known from the beginning. And when interviewers ARE open to talking about it, I feel like I have to walk on egg shells. Maybe it’s just me, but I’ve always gotten the impression that I am hurting my chances of getting the job when I’m the one to bring up pay in an interview even though no one on planet Earth would argue it’s an unreasonable topic. I could be totally wrong about that, but it’s just the feeling I get based on interviewers’ body language after I ask.


onduty

Ask, if they refuse, move on.


laserdicks

It always was and always will be like this because the company doesn't set your salary. You do.


SamL214

I’m sorry? Not to be rude, but what reality do you live in? I’d like a job there.


laserdicks

Literally every place you accept a pay check from requires your consent.


katb8

While it is true that working there means you consent to the pay rate, that’s not the same thing as choosing your pay.


laserdicks

It actually is exactly that. You choose how little you will accept in exchange for working there. Of course if you ask too much then the likelihood of someone in the market agreeing gets very small. But that too is in your control as you can boost the value of your offer by accepting worse working conditions (mines and oil rigs), or by increasing your skill and knowledge.


onduty

Based on your downvotes you’re in the wrong sub I guess, my assumption is we have a lot of hourly laborers with little personal drive and just want to ride along and take what they are entitled to until they jump to the next gig


onduty

Why? It doesn’t seem to economically benefit a company to disclose salary ranges for many types of positions. Entry level disclosure makes sense, it can entice new employees and no one is offended to know what the lowest paid person in the company makes. But as you move up in experienced positions, waving around a flag of pay amount only hurts your current labor costs and company morale. For example, you’ve got an engineer who came in at a base rate of 79k ten years ago and now earns 105k and is happy and content in the security his job provides and the work environment you provide. However, the hiring market has shifted and to be competitive you want to offer 115k to a potential new hire with ten years experience. In a salary disclosure state, your happy employee is now unhappy. There is no reason to arbitrarily demoralize your current experiences staff. And no, just because you share a job title and role does not mean everyone should be paid the same. That’s not how a business works, and if you were the more productive employee who deserves more pay, it is demoralizing to see others whose work is not on your level to make the same


BankerBabe420

In your situation, the loyal and experienced employee is punished financially for not knowing the salary of their peers. You’re saying it would make them sad to learn that they are paid less than what they could make elsewhere, so they just shouldn’t know that? Companies should keep it a secret so they don’t have to pay their employees what they could make elsewhere? How does that protect any employee from exploitation?


onduty

Punished? The only punishment is to yourself for not asking for a raise or negotiating a greater salary. You’re free to ask if your peers earn more, it’s a smart move on your own behalf. But if you stay silent, that’s on you, the company isn’t punishing you for also playing their best hand and holding salaries to themselves unless asked


TRextacy

No, fuck that company. If they are willing to pay 10k more for a similar position with similar experience then they should give a 10k raise to that employee that was loyal and helped them out. If not, they deserve to lose good employees. Discussing salaries is only good for employees and only bad for employers trying to pay as little as possible. You need to change your mindset and stopped justifying exploitation.


onduty

Exploitation, hilarious. Is it not the individual’s responsibility to review his career and compensation since it is clearly an important factor in his life? Or is it the company’s responsibility to analyze the market and remind the employee he should be making more? Come on, have some personal responsibility and take control over your own career. That happy and content employee is free to ask for a raise after a simple look into the market rate of pay, if he fails to have that desire or drive, the company is not exploiting him, they are giving him what he wants


abobtosis

How is the employee able to evaluate their own career and compensation if the salaries of their peers are hidden from them? They may very well believe they're making more than their peers when in reality they're being screwed over and payed way less than some new hire.


onduty

Ask.


abobtosis

How is that any different from the employers just posting the salaries in the first place, other than it being more inconvenient for the job seeker? I fail to see how the new way that you're arguing against is worse.


ImDefNotABomb

I like how you frame it as demoralizing to employees if salary is shared because an employee who is underpaid finds out he's underpaid. All the while defending the business practice of under paying the employee. As if that's not the underlying reason for the discouragement and the problem that's solved by disclosing pay information. It's like you're so close to understanding the issue but not quite smart enough to wrap your head around it all.


onduty

It’s like you’re not quite smart enough to distinguish between underpaid and unmotivated. You’re not underpaid if you’re content and happy with your pay and don’t intend to inquire into a raise or promotion. You’re underpaid if you think you should be paid more and you should be paid more.


ImDefNotABomb

If someone with a decade of experience is paid X then finds out the company is paying someone else to do the exact same job with the exact same experience for Y, they're being underpaid if Y is a lot more than X. You're, very naively I'll add, saying that the issue in that scenario is the person finding out they are underpaid through employees sharing their salaries. Not the actual fact that they're underpaid. As if that isn't the underlying problem. The problem gets solved if people stop being underpaid. See how simple it is? It's a really stupid line of reasoning that serves nobody except the business who in this scenario is under paying a loyal and hard working employee.


Azu_Rage_

I hope they do this for illinois too. To many scamming ass companies , " oh were hiring " then come to find out its for some shit wage


clutzycook

No joke. I interviewed for a job in late 2019. Stated from the beginning what my salary requirements were. Two months and 3 interviews later, they offer me the job for 20% LESS than my stated requirements. They could have saved everyone a lot of stress of they had come out and said that the salary range wasn't that high. Instead the recruiter fed me some BS that they didn't know anyone's situation so they didn't want to eliminate me based on my salary (translation: they hoped I was desperate enough to take the job at any rate. Obviously I was not). Had a similar thing happen to me a year earlier and they all had shocked Pikachu face when I turned them down flat.


Azu_Rage_

Yeah it's bullshit. I'm actually tired of putting hours of effort into applications It's useless as fuck unless you're really trying to get a decent job


rocketpastsix

Here is a jobs board showing companies that are currently excluding Colorado citizens from applying due to this new requirement https://coloradoexcluded.com


CyborgTriceratops

Seems like a great list of companies to avoid.


NJhokie213

Can we all discuss how mlms are going to respond to this? "Salary based on your commitment. 100k - 400k" (imagine completely overinflated numbers and way more smiley faces than I have time to deal with)


overzealous_dentist

They don't pay a salary, so it wouldn't apply


hadapurpura

I can't believe people here are defending the idea of *not disclosing salaries*. Salaries and prices are two things that should be stated up front: saves time for everyone involved.


SBBurzmali

Outside of entry level positions, you'd have to make the range so wide as to be irrelevant. I've had the same job title as folks earning half of what I was making, if they were required to publish the entire range they were willing to pay, they'd be inundated with folks with the low end of the requirements angling for the high end of the pay and folks with the high end of the requirements avoiding the position due to the low end of pay offered. Policies like this benefit big businesses that have enough positions to fully stratify their job offers. Smaller companies that have positions that boil down to "1 person if they match our needs or 2 if we have to hire folks that only kind of match" get screwed by this type of law.


fatdamon26435

Hmm. Not sure I have enough time in the day to submit as many complaints as Im seeing. Ballpark, I think 75-90% of all jobs being posted for my field (IT) are non-compliant with this.


Strayphoenix6

This should be a national law. I don't want to apply to your shit company if you won't tell me it doesn't pay enough until 2 weeks after I've stopped looking for other jobs.


laserdicks

Why would you stop looking for jobs before you've signed the contract? How would a law help with this?


FencingDuke

You only have a finite amount of time to apply and/or interview, because you're a human that experiences linear time and has other things in their life (like eating, or sleeping). Finding out at the interview or at any non-immediate point in the application process that the pay isn't where you want/need it to be wastes some of that finite time.


Strayphoenix6

Because job apps online these days take like 4 hours? Are you daft? "HoW WoUlD iT hElP mE tO KnOw WhAt A CoMpAnY pAyS iF ThEy hAd tO TeLl Me WhAt ThE JoB PaYs?"


logisticsload

Classic example of someone exaggerating a scenario to “try and make a point”, and the only thing they end up doing is totally nullifying any point they might have had. LPT: if a situation is already shitty there is zero reason to lie about it. The only thing that does is remove any legitimacy your argument could have had if you didn’t lie.


Tr83y

I’ve never signed or been offered an employment contract. Is that the norm in countries other than the US? Seems like a liability.


laserdicks

Why would you ever accept a job without a written contract? They could fire you on the spot and you'd have no evidence that you even worked there, let alone what the conditions were that you agreed to work under. Literally every job in the western world has a written contract.


Tr83y

Never been offered to sign a contract of employment. It’s always been “you’re hired, when can you start?” I’m quite successful, I make well into six figures and I’m very hard to replace due to the knowledge required to do my job. Are contracts for lower level workers? Never heard of this.


Tr83y

Are you referring to union jobs maybe?


Connect_Stay_137

Ask when they call you for the interview


onduty

That’s your fault for stopping your job search. Also, you can pick up the phone and ask even before you apply. If they won’t tell you you’re free to move on to a company which fits your values more closely


Strayphoenix6

Nan it's def their fault for not informing potential employees of what they're paying.


SamL214

Hey thanks! I posted a post on this subreddit about this very thing back in January! Keep up the good work!


fort221

I was wondering why my company was posting jobs that weren't valid specifically and only in Colorado. It makes sense now.


slain1134

I think this should be mandatory in all 50 states.


Thisaccountforporn1

Just like we having to compete for companies to pick us, they should compete to be picked by us. True competition. True capitalism.


flashcats

This isn’t true capitalism since the law is requiring one side to show it’s hand…


laserdicks

That's ... literally the case right now


iwatchbasketball23

Yeah that dudes comment is really stupid. “True capitalism is when the government gets involved in the negotiation process between two consenting adults” is essentially what that dude is saying


FallenAssassin

But it's not between two consenting adults, is it? It's between a man and a faceless corporation with several orders of magnitude more resources than he does. That's why government can be useful as an equalizing factor.


iwatchbasketball23

It is between two consenting adults. You aren’t hired by a faceless corporation. You’re hired by a manager + HR, departments staffed by people with faces


FallenAssassin

My contract isn't with Sharon from HR, and the fact that the corporation has the resources for a department dedicated to managing people and salaries tells me they have a lot more time and money to spend on ensure I get paid very little than I do to ensure I'm paid well. Downvote away, but you can't argue there's an imbalance there.


iwatchbasketball23

Why you insta-downvoting bro? Get out of your feelings. I didn’t downvote you. Of course there’s an imbalance. Nobody is denying that. But that doesn’t take away your ability to consent, as you’re implying it does.


FallenAssassin

I'm actually not downvoting you either my dude. You appear to argue in good faith so I've no problems with you. I'm not sure where you see me implying the applicant loses their ability to consent however. I was pointing out that the whole power balance is off, and as a result it makes sense for the government to at as an equalizer to ensure things are something approaching fair. Then again I'm also from the socialist hellscape of Canada so we actually enjoy some level of workers rights.


jamalw10

Since this isn't something that's relevant to most people on reddit, wouldn't it be better to post it in r/Colorado or r/ColoradoPolitics?


ugotamesij

Once again, it's a shame the mods continue to use categories for post flairs, when country/region flairs would be much more useful imo.


jamalw10

You're right, and not only for this sub either


moiraByeChoice

Being from Spain, I agree. I think that this, if wrote on another sub, would had fit. Like economics or something related to jobs. It would start a discussion on if it should be this way or another. But is soo specific that doesn't make sense to put it in a broad sub


Fiveby21

It should apply to any position remote position that’s posted in the US, if the company has a Colorado branch. So it can help people who don’t live in Colorado even. Edit: for the record, I was not the one who downvoted you.


Veyceroy

This is relevant to anyone who lives/works in Colorado as well as anyone who would consider applying for a remote job based anywhere in the US. How is that not relevant to at least most US reddit users?


jamalw10

I don't think most US Redditors are trying to get a job in Colorado and when I meant all of reddit I meant all of reddit, YSK can be viewed in any country.


BankerBabe420

I am in PA, on the other side of US, but US labor laws are pertinent to us all because it’s important to know how other states are addressing problems, and changes will often start in one state and spread. And the problem of companies trying to hide their pay rates, and obscuring their criteria for compensation, raises and promotions, would be less of an issue if it didn’t mysteriously always result in lower pay for women and minorities, year after year.


sdneidich

It is more relevant than that: if you work for a national company that has a presence in colorado, it very likely does apply to you.


inthewez1

The last sentence gave me cancer.


[deleted]

[удалено]


Tr83y

Radical change requires short term sacrifice. Soon all states will adopt this practice and Colorado will be ahead of the game. Also this argument is starting to sound a lot like the increase in minimum wage.


dansedemorte

This should be written into the US constitution.


TheBiggustDickus

I’m dubious about the claims for remote work. Companies will just start restricting Colorado from eligible places.


petrifiedpurple

fuck yeah something to do! I'm going to start hunting them down now


MrsPoindextersMr

I guess I won’t be hiring any remote workers from Colorado. Oh well.


TheBiggustDickus

This is exactly what will happen. As someone who lived in Boulder for over a decade, I can say this is exactly how Colorado is. They makes overly authoritative “progressive” laws like this one (meant to control citizens in other states I.e. out of their jurisdiction), then get surprised and call foul when people just say “fuck Colorado then”.


[deleted]

Nobody cares about your low paying jobs


MrsPoindextersMr

[Coloradans Need Not Apply](https://fee.org/articles/you-can-live-anywhere-but-colorado-why-many-remote-job-postings-are-now-actively-excluding-one-state/)


Misterman098

Well who would've thought any sort of woke BS based on falsehoods and inaccuracies would ever amount to anything good? There already is equal work for equal pay. But christ is it annoying when companies don't list a salary with a job posting. Why waste both of our time by having me potentially interview for a job that I can't except due to the lowball pay that you don't tell me about until 3 rounds of interviews and a job offer.


ifindusernameshard

as you say. this doesnt even have to be about gender discrimination. it might just provide better selection for applicants, so they can opt not to even apply for unacceptably poorly-paying jobs. as positive of this is that it also allows everyone to know what they should expect as pay from the job before the employer knows their demographic information. which will help prevent future discrimination (regardless of whether it currently exists) edit: cant type


wombatwanders

Hahahahahahahahahahaha My god you're stupid. Men routinely get paid more than women for the exact same job. Get your head out the sand.


EMPIREVSREBLES

The pay gap has been debunked so many times especially on how the information on how they researched the pay gap.


Misterman098

Only pay gaps for same work that I have seen are where women make more than men. In the sex trade or stripping, women make excessively more than their male counterparts. But I don't know of a single job that has a different hourly pay rate for men and for women. ​ If you're so incredibly smart, by all means please direct me to this secret information you're claiming exists.


Connect_Stay_137

Men work an avg of 42hrs weekly vs womans 36hrs weekly, full time. Obama Era data so might be a little off now.


wombatwanders

I don't know what relevance that has to women being paid less for doing the same job. Not talking different jobs with different hours, or taking overtime into account. Same job, women get paid less.


Nanoodler

Except they don't. The "pay gap" is just average total pay. It isn't for the same job, same hours, or same anything.


wombatwanders

There is a pay gap in terms of total earnings, which exists because women tend to work less than men. There is also a pay gap where women are paid less for the same job. The two feed into each other. Women work less because they are more likely to be stay at home parents than men. Partly because of societal / historical reasons, but also partly because it makes sense for the men to continue working since they are often the higher earner.


Connect_Stay_137

No in the Obama Era reports (the ones that say .79 in the dollar) OT, avg hours worked, and time off weren't taken into account. Neither was maturity leave. Nor was how often raises are asked / demanded for or how much work an employee does [ex. A desk worker who only does desk work and leaves shouldn't be paid as much as a desk worker who does their work and helps other departments]


bradvincent13

What a stupid law. Why don’t you just sign a piece of paper that says every company has to give at least an upper-middle class standard of living? That would make everybody wealthy! Writing words on a paper doesn’t change economics. Business owners will adapt to make up for whatever reason they weren’t posting the salary, such as writing lower salaries and not allowing negotiations as much (just thinking off the top of my head). Again, a politics. writing things on pieces of paper doesn’t change economics. Only my list of political battles, this is number 104,722. But damn it’s still stupid and I don’t get why people think just because it sounds good on paper it should be enforced at gun point by cops. Wild Edit: this is not me carrying water for corporations. They largely suck. But they suck because they are in bed with government, and little laws like this do nothing to end corporate bailouts, but they are silly little “feel good” policies that do nothing to help the poorest people. Most of this comes from my anti government bias and I am half talking out my ass, but why do people never think about unintended consequences of laws like these


ifindusernameshard

this isnt setting salaries, its jsut making sure everyone applying to the job knows roughly what theyll be payed. thats wayy better bargaining power for workers.


bradvincent13

Yeah I understood what it meant. I understand it’s intentions. I think it’s stupid


[deleted]

Lol


Be_Glorious

RemindMe! 6 hours


woolyearth

Now do All of America! ffs


Blargwill

In theory, can a remote posting state "No Colorado residents"? I'm always interested in these types of laws where they effect places outside of their jurisdiction, like GDPR has defacto changed the whole internet.


pmcd_com

That's still a felony


KyCerealKiller

Every job posting should be like that.


unoriginalsin

Guess which state isn't going to have any remote work opportunities?