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King_fora_Day

I noticed that the view of the Age of Legends city in the episode 8 cold open is the same shot as the ruins from the start of episode 1. I made this composite image to see the 2 views side by side.


Representative-Look5

This is awesome I totally missed this, really cool thanks =D


King_fora_Day

Yeah a nice little Easter Egg I thought


I_Am_A_Polite_A-hole

Thank you! I thought they looked similar in my rewatch!


King_fora_Day

It was the stadium looking thing that caught my eye


CuriousParticipant

Amazing catch!


level_17_paladin

They changed the entire history of the world in the show?


Citrus210

Apparently they changed only How and What was going on at the time. Like for example that Lews was an arrogant fool instead of an arrogant, but desperate man making a last ditch effort to save the world.


cmetz90

This is a criticism that doesn’t make a ton of sense to me, I think the show did a fine job of illustrating your second point. One woman called Lews a fool, because she wanted him to stay safe instead of going off on a dangerous mission. Lews made it clear that he felt it was his best chance at stopping the DO from influencing the world though, and that from his perspective it wasn’t just some power trip. Considering that this is our first, brief glimpse of the end of the Age of Legends, I think it lays the groundwork just fine, even if some nuance was lost in translation.


helloperator9

Yep and his actions were arguably less arrogant in show because he consulted and tried to persuade the Tamerlin rather than sneaking off. Plus Jordan confirmed that if women had joined the Dragon the DO would've poisoned saidar and saidin. So it was objectively foolhardy and the only people saying otherwise seem to be experiencing male fragility.


marxist-teddybear

The problem is that the show does not demonstrate the extent of the destruction from the War of Power. The coalition of the light is desperate and losing the war. If the Dragon had not sealed the dark one they might have lost.


Aiskhulos

> The problem is that the show does not demonstrate the extent of the destruction from the War of Power. Not yet, no. But it didn't really do that in the first few books, either. We don't truly get a look at what the Age of Legends was like until Rand goes through Rhuidean.


[deleted]

I’m so sorry they didn’t get hundreds of pages in 30 seconds lol


cybelechild

> The problem is that the show does not demonstrate the extent of the destruction from the War of Power. Yet. The show does not demonstrate the extend of destruction from the War of Power yet.


gravygrowinggreen

The war of power was destructive but there were genuine pockets where the majesty of the age of legends remained untouched iirc. Relax.


cc81

Have you read the short story? The women's plan was not more likely to win and if they failed the dark one would have won


helloperator9

No, though it doesn't surprise me, it was a time of three bad options. It was probably the best outcome in the end, it needed LTT to plough on alone, and the women to refuse to join. Both parts of the source being corrupted would've probably led to a shadow victory down the line too


0b0011

>So it was objectively foolhardy and the only people saying otherwise seem to be experiencing male fragility. I mean it was the only thing that saved the world so it seems like he was at least right.


[deleted]

He would have destroyed everyone and everything if the woman had participated. So there was a better option, he was too Arrogant to find it


cc81

What was the better option? The women's plan was to retake the ter'angreal and they had failed with that so far. They were about to lose the sa'angreal as well and had not retaken land I 2 years. The Light was a few months away from total defeat. And even if they got their hands on the ter'angreal and used them in the war to push the shadow back and try to create a barrier it is not certain it would work of of the consequences would be far worse.


barfcloth

Sounds like he did find it. If women participated, the whole world is doomed. He did it without women. What is the better option you came up with that he didn't?


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cybelechild

> Like for example that Lews was an arrogant fool instead of an arrogant, but desperate man making a last ditch effort to save the world. We still do not know if they have done that. We have so far only seen a single cold open for what, a minute, without it providing much context.


sandmanbren

Touching the dark ones taint: not even once


King_fora_Day

Do you think the Dark One likes it every time a man touches his taint? Or just when he's in the mood?


Generalitary

Ah, so those *were* power-wrought skyscrapers. That explains why they lasted so long.


ThePrankMonkey

Power wrought and completely unknown to the Brown Ajah.


theCroc

Do we know it is unknown? In the books the landscape is littered with old ruins that most people know nothing about but the browns have it in the tower library.


Rammite

Who says the Brown doesn't know about them? Whitebridge is power-wrought and no one really cares about it. There's nothing to study. It's a bridge that doesn't break or get slippery. You marvel in its splendor, but then you move on with your day. There aren't Brown sisters guarding its secrets or Greens safeguarding it from darkfriend use. It's a bridge. These are buildings.


ThePrankMonkey

The difference being that White Bridge is from after the breaking and those towers are from the Age of Legend. Edit. I looked it up and an article claims that the bridge is _believed_ to be from the Age of Legend, while a Quora discussion points out that it most likely isn't. So who knows? - https://wot.fandom.com/wiki/Whitebridge - https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-Whitebridge-from-the-Wheel-of-Time-made-of


LogiCparty

That quora article assumes the white bridge is in tar valon for some reason and not in Andor across the continent.


PandaistApp

Yeah I was going to say, Whitebridge was moderately west of Caemlyn


gravygrowinggreen

Why is that a difference? Power wrought is power wrought, whether a theorist who inaccurately thinks thinks whitebridge is near tar valon is correct about the date of its construction or not. I do not see how that has any bearing on whether the brown ajah would know or not know about other power wrought structures as depicted in the show.


ThePrankMonkey

I think it matters because art styles can tell us a lot about the people living during the time. And the Age of Legends is an interesting period of time.


gravygrowinggreen

Okay, you still seem to have lost the context and are just in the dispute everything phase of posting. Remember, you used this as a complaint about the show, and then justified it as such because you believe white bridge is a post age of legends structure while the city depicted is not. How is that difference relevant to the show's percieved flaws? Do you think the show inaccurately portrayed brown ajah learning or not learning about age of legends art styles? Do you think the brown ajah's study of age of legends art styles is an apropriate thing for the show to spend time on, despite it at no point being mentioned in the books?


Rammite

Oh, oops, I totally forgot about that.


fargothsrevenge

The browns have been wasting time studying the same dusty tomes for centuries


RavenDeadeye

I'm glad someone else noticed this! I clocked the buildings in the first episode, but didn't notice how they lined up exactly with the flashback. That is so incredibly cool!


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cronokun

Nice catch! I would assume it is supposed to be Paaren Disen. I wonder if the circular building in the middle is supposed to be the Hall of Servants.


JasperJ

Probably. And I assume it’s (show)||>!where the confrontation at the end of e8 happens||.!<


Three-Stanleys

It can't be, unless moiraine and Lan were in sight distance of it when they watched Liandrin and her reds deal with that male channeler at the beginning of ep 1.


SuperStallionDriver

To be honest... Great visual but a little lore breaking to me. If there was an AOL city anywhere in the world that was that intact, there would be soooooo much more known about the AOL. Like what, those buildings are still standing but no books, stasis boxes, ter'angreal libraries, etc survived to be studied? In the first episode I thought it was supposed to maybe be towers of Manetheran in the mountains of mist... But AOL capital city intact... I don't know, it didn't do it for me. I am glad other people liked it, they clearly invested in that visual in both instances, it just wasn't it for me.


MrMoexo

I’ll throw out there that—despite the fact we’re talking about fictional settings—real places that people occupy can get swallowed up in way less than 3000 years. For example all the Mayan sites which were occupied 500-1000 years ago [completely enveloped by jungle](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Castillo_Maler.jpg). Kinda fun to think about!


Maskatron

And on the pedestal these words appear: My name is Ozymandias, king of kings; Look on my works, ye Mighty, and despair! Nothing beside remains. Round the decay Of that colossal wreck, boundless and bare The lone and level sands stretch far away.


SuperStallionDriver

Agreed. The only reason I think it can be argued as bit different is cuendilar or other AOL building materials. Like whitebridge is from the AOL. So yeah, the uses of certain structures surviving isn't really a problem in-world other than that we have no real evidence of the types of archeological sites and awareness of the past outside the choden kal dig, which again demonstrates that they would investigate a place like a city if it existed.


Winters_Lady

And places like Angkor Wat in Southeast Asia (Thailand or Cambodia? I forgot) that ae only what, 500-600 yrs old, and are swallowed by the jungle and some of the statues submerged in how much water? (Sorry no time to find links to post)


rollingForInitiative

>If there was an AOL city anywhere in the world that was that intact, there would be soooooo much more known about the AOL. Like what, those buildings are still standing but no books, stasis boxes, ter'angreal libraries, etc survived to be studied? If it's Paaran Diesen, the city was evacuated during the Breaking. They probably took everything of value, and the rest was looted or destroyed over the centuries. Any ter'angreal and writings left afterwards could easily have been shipped off to Tar Valon or Tear. Both of those places have lots of ter'angreal that just collect dust. Tar Valon does have writings from the Age of Legends, just mostly fragments and such.


Rand_alThor_

The major battles against the shadow raged for a 1000 years after the breaking. We know the third age was an age of decline. I think people have this false view of it as breaking, reset to Dark/Middle Ages in 50 years, that’s it. It ground humanity to dust generation after generation


SuperStallionDriver

Sauce? The wot fandom wiki has nothing to say about the city being evacuated and says it was "presumed destroyed" during the breaking... Either way, a lot more would be known. A city evacuated is not a city picked clean. Quite the opposite. All sorts of things from everyday life to great works of art would have been left and abandoned in an evacuation.


Zorchin

It had thousands of years to be picked clean though.


artemi7

This. If you no one was protecting it and there was stuff inside, it would have been picked clean a year out, let alone thousands of years after. Looting starts within days, weeks in our world, why would it be be anything different here?


culb77

It wasn't explicitly stated, but Rand sees a lot of this in his flashbacks at Rhuidean.


SuperStallionDriver

That part is in the wiki. I don't think that was an "abandon the city" for everyone scene. It was just meant to show the Aiel being told to leave after the Aes Sedai they had known began turning on people because of the madness. But even if everyday people did evacuate, I don't think that would imply it was preserved from the breaking. I mean Paren Disen housed the highest concentration of Aes Sedai of anywhere during the AOL with the hall of the servants in the city... Would be pretty crazy if the breaking didn't come to Paren Disen even more ferociously than anywhere else.


Nonner_Party

>Would be pretty crazy if the breaking didn't come to Paren Disen even more ferociously than anywhere else. That's a hugely important point. With that many Aes Sedai present during the breaking, one could easily assume that this city was thoroughly razed. The destruction here should have been far worse than anywhere else in the world.


TeddysBigStick

> The destruction here should have been far worse than anywhere else in the world. Especially because all of their Aeil were evacuated instead of sacrificing themselves to buy others time like they did in some instances.


marxist-teddybear

The heartbreaking part about that story is that the city of had already been evacuated when the Aeil tried to sing to the mad man. Also in that story we learned of what the actual worst destruction was because that city was literally glassed. Completely erased off the face of the Earth. Edit: I was completely wrong upon reread I now see that the Aeil did but the people Time to flee. I misheard and assumed it was the case because it makes it more tragic.


Schitzoflink

I couldnt find the quote when Rand was body hopping in Rhuidean but this is from the wiki and it tracks with what I remember is the overheard conversation. Im a city called Tzora ten thousand Aiel sang to a mad male Aes Sedai, called Jaric Mondoran, to try to keep him from destroying the city with the One Power in his madness from the taint on saidin. Aiel died one by one, singing, and with their death gaining enough time to most of the population of the city to be fled from death. He has listened the last Aiel for almost an hour before destroying him then burned Tzora.


culb77

I'd also say that given the attitudes towards Aes Sedai after the breaking, most people would stay away. After all, no one goes near Shadar Logoth, and apparently even people who live nearby don't know much about it.


SuperStallionDriver

Interesting point... But to be honest I always interpreted the Aes Sedai view as a post-Hawking construct. We know that Aes Sedai queens were common a long time ago. Like Manetheren or Andor before (and after) Hawking. We know that Hawking was turned against Aes Sedai by Ishamael "and across the length of the land, Aes Sedai died" (EOTW) so the whole Aes Sedai are darkfriends and one step from the dark one could easily be a construct unique to the last several hundred to last thousand years since Hawking. And certainly the Aes Sedai themselves wouldn't balk at raiding the shit out of Paren Disen to get all those sweet AOL artefacts and tidbits of knowledge.


Critternid

I'm not sure why it's right by The Two Rivers in the show -- that seems unlikely.


theCroc

Is it? Moraine states that the two rivers is next, not that they are near it. They might have traveled for weeks between those scenes. Thats also supported by Liandrin being in tye scene chasing random channelers in the countryside and then immediately after leaving the two rivers they run into her transporting Logain. That implies that she had enough time to get new orders sent to her, ride to Ghealdan, fight a battle, trap Logaine and transport him a good stretch from Ghealdan in a wagon, which is slooow.


ExpertOdin

even if it was evacuated how did insane male channelers not level the buildings at some point? the entire world heaved and broke as men went mad so it doesn't make much sense that the core structures of that many buildings were left intact. Especially with the topography remaining largely unchanged.


[deleted]

Eh it apparently happened though “””Its in EoTW, chapter 24. Bayle Domon talks about it when they pass the Towers of Ghenjei. "The Breaking left a thousand wonders behind, and there's been half a dozen empires or more since, some rivaling Artur Hawkwing's every one leaving things to see and find. Light-sticks and razorlace and heartstone. A crystal lattice covering an island, and it hums when the moon is up. A mountain hollowed into a bowl, and in its center, a silver spike a hundred spans high, and any who comes within a mile of it, dies."”””


ExpertOdin

Specific objects surviving is very different to the bones of an entire city still being there


[deleted]

Not at all


aircarone

One possible explanation would be that the buildings themselves were more sturdy than normal due to being built using the power, and also that there were many female Aes Sedai there who managed to somewhat protect some of the structures. They still needed to abandon the city so it is reasonable to think that in the end not enough was preserved aside from the power built structures so the remaining Aes Sedai evacuated/moved what was left somewhere else (like Tar Valon).


ExpertOdin

If the buildings were completely intact that would make sense, or even if it was core structures intact. But it appears most of the buildings are just randomally decayed which doesnt make sense if any part of them is power wrought. It also doesnt explain why none of them were buried in the heaving of the land. The river is still in roughly the same place as are the mountains. Based on the books we wouldn't expect it to exist still as it is in the show, but we dont know what hiatory they have altered so it may make sense when more is revealed.


rollingForInitiative

>even if it was evacuated how did insane male channelers not level the buildings at some point? the entire world heaved and broke as men went mad so it doesn't make much sense that the core structures of that many buildings were left intact. Especially with the topography remaining largely unchanged. We know that some buildings created with the One Power are extremely durable. The waygates, for instance, require extreme amounts of channeling to damage, let alone destroy. I don't think it's unreasonable to assume that some megabuildings of the Age of Legends were constructed with such methods. So, let's say that after evacuation, over the years some insane men unleash at Paaran Diesen? The normal buildings get wrecked, sure. Some of the big ones. Some of the strongly constructed buildings might've been very damaged, as we see in this picture, but still intact. I think it also depends on what manner of disaster struck this specific region. Maybe it was lightning storms, more normal earthquakes, and firestorms. That would be enough to wipe out a lot of things like books, but these One Power-made buildings might survive as broken ruins. I don't think *everything* from the Age of Legends was outright destroyed. There might be cities or buildings at the bottom of the sea, or buried under a desert or a new mountain range. We do know that other regions survived the Breaking with some geography intact - for instance, Dragonmount and Tar Valon survived after their creation, looking more or less the same.


0b0011

For what it's worth I've seen people point to bits in the story or extra material released that imply there are some areas like this in the world that people don't go to because you die if you go there. Maybe the age of legend used a lot of nuclear power and their stuff is now radioactive.


SuperStallionDriver

If you can point me to where you saw that, I would appreciate it. I have read the series many times and don't recall anything like that. But hey, it's a big series and you forget things or miss a detail someone else caught.


Marilee_Kemp

Its in EoTW, chapter 24. Bayle Domon talks about it when they pass the Towers of Ghenjei. "The Breaking left a thousand wonders behind, and there's been half a dozen empires or more since, some rivaling Artur Hawkwing's every one leaving things to see and find. Light-sticks and razorlace and heartstone. A crystal lattice covering an island, and it hums when the moon is up. A mountain hollowed into a bowl, and in its center, a silver spike a hundred spans high, and any who comes within a mile of it, dies."


Leungal

Bayle Domon in Eye of The World: >"A crystal lattice covering an island, and it hums when the moon is up. A mountain hollowed into a bowl, and in its center, a silver spike a hundred spans high, and any who comes within a mile of it, dies." Never confirmed, but the second part sure sounds like an observatory like [Arecibo](https://www.space.com/arecibo-telescope-suffers-more-damage-cable-failure) or perhaps some sort of nuclear accident / missiles were exposed there. Another section from the Prologue of PoD: >"To the south, however, lay what had made this spot a good choice for meeting. A slender spire like a column of gleaming golden lace lay slanting and partly buried in the bare hillside, a good seventy paces of it showing above the treetops. Every child in the Black Hills old enough to run off leading strings knew of it, but there was not a village inside four days' travel, nor would anyone come within ten miles willingly. The stories of this place spoke of mad visions, of the dead walking, and death at touching the spire" These honestly could be anything, artifacts from the War of the Power, failed laboratories from the AoL, a Ter'Angreal, or just straight radioactive material. But scattered throughout the books are references to relics from the past, whether Rhuidean or the Tower of Ghenjei or the various First Age things in the Panarch's Palace.


0b0011

Unfortunately I don't know where it mentions that. If I knew I'd link it but I do remember someone saying it and providing a link a few days after the episode came out.


theCroc

Paaran Disen was never taken. But after the events shown in the cold open, the breaking happened. The pillar flashbacks in the books showed the Aiel leaving Paaran Disen during the breaking.


King_fora_Day

Yeah I agree that it is lore breaking, but I've already decided that lore will be broken, both deliberately and accidentally, so it doesn't upset me too much. I can see that this will annoy some people, but I just let it go as a liberty that they took which will probably have no consequences on the telling of the story.


ew73

I kind of appreciate it. The Eye in the books is just sort of.. this geographical Macguffin that no one ever talks about again. There's no reason it _can't_ be whatever this is (the original Hall of Servants, maybe?) or some other thing. I am sort of glad that the show, at least, removed the other stuff about the Eye's location from the books. The extra characters that showed up there didn't survive the encounter, and, as mentioned, thge place itself is never really mentioned again anyway.


itsmeduhdoi

I mean, they basically destroyed it during the climax, so there’s nothing left to talk about


[deleted]

Not lore breaking “””Its in EoTW, chapter 24. Bayle Domon talks about it when they pass the Towers of Ghenjei. "The Breaking left a thousand wonders behind, and there's been half a dozen empires or more since, some rivaling Artur Hawkwing's every one leaving things to see and find. Light-sticks and razorlace and heartstone. A crystal lattice covering an island, and it hums when the moon is up. A mountain hollowed into a bowl, and in its center, a silver spike a hundred spans high, and any who comes within a mile of it, dies."”””


King_fora_Day

yeah but those are fragments, this is an entire city in situ. When you consider that the docks are found at the top of the Spine of the World, and the description of the Breaking in general, you get the idea that no piece of land remained untouched. I guess I'd say it stretches the lore more than breaks it?


MDCCCLV

It is, they didn't even have elevators or the concept of how they worked in Randland. If it survived to this extent then there would be a lot more relics and stuff left behind. Now I actually did want them to lean in this direction and have a little bit of post apocalyptic vibe like Beowulf 1999 or The Shannara Chronicles. But if you do that then you have to commit to it and that means there are lots of old metal debris. laying around. So there should be tons of fallout style metal buildings made of scavenged material, not just pure fantasy wood and rough stone.


QuirkyGroundhog

People pointed out that the town in episode 3 seemed to be 'mining' debris.


Child_Emperor

It's a nice sentiment, but if they would actually have such obvious remnants of the old world they would be the most visited locations ever. Mountain ranges were erected, nations swept under the sea, oceans moved places...but this city that was seemingly housing important characters like LTT and was most likely populated by many male channelers was left relatively intact? The scale is very deceptive, but there are smaller skyscrapers on the foot of the bigger ones, which have to be like Burj Khalifa times ten. In the books >!only remnants of AoL settlements we see are those docks near the tops of the Spine of the World!<


Bael18

Isn’t the bridge for Whitebridge also a remnant?


Child_Emperor

The material is at least, but realistically the river would not have been in the same place, so why build a fancy bridge there? And even if there are remnants whole settlements/cities were never shown except the docks and houses I mentioned.


Bael18

True. I suspect that while writing EoTW RJ had some initial ideas about the world that he changed as he fleshed things out. We can see a number of things he later dropped, such as Moiraines staff. He may have intended to have more ruins from the AoL be involved in the story but ended up changing course. It seems odd for a cuendillar bridge to have been there but nothing else.


Morsexier

My interpretation was this was just a rando bridge in the AOL… but since it was one of the few structures to survive it becomes this insane thing, but in reality there were literally thousands of bridges like this one.


Bael18

It’s hard to tell. There is a bit of a mystery IMO with the AoL and the breaking. Specifically around cuendillar buildings like the bridge. If they were prevalent, there should be a lot more of them still around since it’s such indestructible material. If they weren’t making a bunch of cuendillar buildings the question would be why not? And if they only did it for certain things why this particular bridge?


NoddysShardblade

How about this: A once-in-a-generation Cuendillar-making savant like Egwene makes the bridge for show in a populated city location. Then a tainted crazy male Aes Sedai blasts that whole city with a tornado of sand travelling at relativistic speeds as he pulls twenty times more Saidin than he can safely handle and burns himself out. Only the bridge is standing. The river survives too. A river may not be affected much by a tornado, and may change little in only a few thousand years.


JasperJ

Rivers are affected a lot by the earth heaving and mountain ranges being raised. But of course it’s entirely possible an entirely new river flows there now.


ew73

Whose to say someone in the past 2,000 years didn't notice the water was running to the east of the bridge and either, re-route the river, or just drag the bridge to the river? If it's made of Cullendar, it's not like you can break it. Just attach some levers and fulcrums and put some wheels under it and go.


CorporateNonperson

Except that cuendillar bridges wouldn’t be rando, or if used for mundane purposes, would be prevalent enough to dot the landscape to a pretty high degree.


CorporateNonperson

From the Wheel of Time Companion, which was the Bible the copy editor wrote to keep tracks of mistakes, Whitebridge the town was named in one of the subsequent ages after the bridge itself, which was formed in the age of legends.


clutzyninja

If the bridge survived the breaking, then the rivers coarse might not have changed either. It's been thousands of years, not millions


Nago31

Also, why couldn’t the bridge have been moved during the Ten Nations era? It might be big and heavy but that was a time they thought they might be able to bring the AOL back. Moving an indestructible structure should have been within the world of possibility.


clutzyninja

I mean maybe, but why move it to Whitebridge? That's like moving the golden gate bridge to Madison, Wisconsin, lol


TwoLetters

The material was. If memory serves, Whitebridge was ogier built.


Bael18

My memory is foggy, but I thought it was cuendillar


SeventyTimes_7

Not cuendillar unless cuendillar is glass-like. I believe it is inferred that it was made by Aes Sedai near the AOL, not Ogier.


rollingForInitiative

>It's a nice sentiment, but if they would actually have such obvious remnants of the old world they would be the most visited locations ever. Not sure why they would be? It's not as if people in this world go on annual vacations. There's a ruined radio dish (or something that looks like it) that is rumoured to kill anyone within sight. There's Shadar Logoth that few people even know about, and no one visits, because it's cursed. Age of Legends city ruins, with some rumours about One Power or other mysterious events, hauntings, etc, combined with them being in the mountains as far from civilization as is possible, and few people would visit. Maybe some scholars here and there, but not like that would matter to anything.


Child_Emperor

People would visit simply because the resources such a place would offer. Not just treasure hunters either. Point being, such a massive city would have been leveled to the ground during the Breaking.


rollingForInitiative

>People would visit simply because the resources such a place would offer. Not just treasure hunters either. Point being, such a massive city would have been leveled to the ground during the Breaking. What resources? Anything that could be moved would've been moved thousands of years ago. The Aes Sedai would've already looted it for items of the One Power. Pieces of art and writing that might've survived would've already been taken. We do know that some buildings made from the One Power are difficult or impossible to destroy. Like Waygates, or Whitebridge. The surviving buildings here could've been partially made with the One Power as well, and what survives is what cannot easily be destroyed.


barassmonkey17

It's also possible the place *was* extensively looted after the Breaking, but like much of the knowledge and artifacts that were lost over the 3000 years since the Breaking, the artifacts of this city could have been misplaced with time. To be honest, I think people who hate the show are kind of nitpicking anything they can get their hands on, because that's the popular sentiment. This city's existence could be pretty easily explained away. Hell, it's not like the Aes Sedai run a tight ship when it comes to archeology. Let's not forget they avoid tampering with ter'angreal, refuse to develop new weaves, and don't even have a proper recruitment system going on by the time of the books. I could see a city like this being looted for artifacts of the Power, then fall out of interest to the Aes Sedai except for a few enterprising Browns here and there. It would hardly be a departure from their usual MO. Let's not forget the countryside is littered with Portal Stones, Waygates, and areas of interest like the Tower of Ghenjei that the Aes Sedai have very little interest in anymore.


BrgQun

The show does have what looks like a whole mining town digging for artifacts from the AoL.


budoutlaw67

I agree with you, the show inhabitants are the worst archeologists ever.


NoddysShardblade

Archeology wasn't a big thing on Earth until thousands of years after Earth had Randland-level tech: steel, farming, writing etc. How many Brown Ajah sisters are there in the world? 20? 50? 100? How many of those are doing archeology and not science, cataloging, studying the one power, etc?


PandaistApp

7 Ajahs, around 1000 total sisters. From what I’m reading Brown Ajah is the 4th largest (so right around the median), and Red Ajah is the largest at 200 members. So 800/6 means probably somewhere around 110-150 brown sisters, so not a ton


[deleted]

“””Its in EoTW, chapter 24. Bayle Domon talks about it when they pass the Towers of Ghenjei. "The Breaking left a thousand wonders behind, and there's been half a dozen empires or more since, some rivaling Artur Hawkwing's every one leaving things to see and find. Light-sticks and razorlace and heartstone. A crystal lattice covering an island, and it hums when the moon is up. A mountain hollowed into a bowl, and in its center, a silver spike a hundred spans high, and any who comes within a mile of it, dies."”” So you’re wrong considering people actually avoid the things


Glitch_K1ng

Yea I actually did a huge eye roll when I saw this on the show. It was never supposed to be that obvious early on that this is a new world built on top of many many old worlds. Sorta ruins the build up of the mythology of the entire world.


Trot1995

I don't see this as really any different then a massive fuck off bridge being left over from the age of Legends or the Skyscraper Ruins seen in the spine or the Mercedes Bends logo that somehow survives a nuclear apocalypses and the breaking.


Glitch_K1ng

The difference to me was that the build up to those moments was slow and calculated before Jordan came out and said it. By that time, you had already become invested in the world so to realize that it was much deeper than it seems on the surface was an amazing revelation. The show, on the other hand, just sort of "whipped it out" right in the first episode skipping all the clues and intrigue that made it so fascinating in the first place.


Trot1995

>The show, on the other hand, just sort of "whipped it out" right in the first episode skipping all the clues and intrigue that made it so fascinating in the first place. Clues and intrigue? White Bridge is in the first book, Marc and Merc are in the first chapter. We see the start of the breaking in the prologue. There was no mystery about the world being a post apocalyptic world. You're quite literally making stuff up to dislike the show.


jflb96

Yeah, I might have been primed by reddit and/or Mortal Engines, but reading 'Lenn flew to the Moon in an eagle made of fire' and all that immediately made me think 'it's Earth all along.' Shame that they didn't have Niall Strong-Arm or Good King Elvis, though.


randsedai2

don't bother this guy a book cloak just let him rant. This sub has gone downhill.


FigNewton555

Mosk and Merk? Honestly I’m not sure I can believe anyone who says they picked up on it that early. (Without outside influence)


Aiskhulos

Why?


manster20

>“Tell us about Lenn,” Egwene called. “How he flew to the moon in the belly of an eagle made of fire. fire. Tell about his daughter Salya walking among the stars.” >"But I have all stories, mind you now, of Ages that were and will be. Ages when men ruled the heavens and the stars, and Ages when man roamed as brother to the animals. Ages of wonder, and Ages of horror. Ages ended by fire raining from the skies, and Ages doomed by snow and ice covering land and sea. I have all stories, and I will tell all stories. Tales of Mosk the Giant, with his Lance of fire that could reach around the world, and his wars with Elsbet, the Queen of All. Tales of Materese the Healer, Mother of the Wondrous Ind.” Chapter 4 of the first book, it wasn't that subtle.


FigNewton555

I know where it is, it’s very often discussed in conversations about the nature of the Wheel and it’s past/future and I’ve read it more times than I can count. But it’s easy to undersell the subtlety. I’m not saying it’s impossible that someone could pick up on the references the first time they read it. (And yes I realize the contrast to my previous post I was admittedly being a bit hyperbolic). I AM saying the obviousness of these references telling the fresh first-time reader that this story literally happens in our future is greatly oversold. It’s only anecdotal but no one I know picked up on it till much later and made the connection to this passage only on a reread or when pointed out to them. Even if the reader notices the similarity of names and circumstances, it can easily be read as a one-off, as the author dropping in some parallels, and not literally as historical events that have faded from record and exist only as legends that have been twisted by time and telling.


WayTooDumb

> It’s only anecdotal but no one I know picked up on it till much later Literally every reader I've talked to in person picked this up without needing a reread or hints, though I suppose some of the references have become mildly less obvious with time. For me it was "Materese the Healer, Mother of the Wondrous Ind" which in the '90s had all the subtlety of a brick to the face.


Glitch_K1ng

I actually really like the show and have been following it's development since it was announced. It wasn't that obvious to me during my first read through... When I read it, I just thought that the age of legends was just as technologically advanced as the current one and then moved on in the story. It wasn't until much later that I realized that the AoL was actually a very advanced civ that had come beforehand.


King_fora_Day

I agree that the city should not have been so intact. Even being generous, if you assume that time has not done much damage since the breaking, and that the damage we see was mostly wrought by the mad channelers, you would assume that the geographical destruction would have separated these buildings or drowned them under the sea. I guess you could make an argument that the city may have been protected in some way, or was transported/affected as an entire entity, but I think you'd be getting into dubious territory there.


rollingForInitiative

It could also be that since even in the books, western Andor has multiple structures from the Age of Legends, including a whole bridge, that region was less affected than the rest. There's the Tower of Ghenjei and Whitebridge. Maybe this region wasn't heavily affected by the earth moving, but suffered blazing infernos, firestorms and rains of lightning instead. Leaving only the buildings that are nearly indestructible.


Candide-Jr

Pretty awesome I have to say. The more well-done AoL and Lews Therin stuff they include, the happier I'll be.


HeWhoHasRedditt

Omg I just realised they were ruins. I thought they were just cool rock formations.


g33dot

Good catch my dude!


gandalfsbastard

That’s really cool, the backdrops and scenery have been excellent. One of the strong points of the show.


spoop_male

Is this how the AoL was represented in the books? The whole flying vehicle and futuristic vibe was unexpected to me


aethiestinafoxhole

Yep, pretty much


Broswagonist

To add onto what the others said, anytime they talk about this stuff, it's usually from the point of view of someone living in that time where all those things were normal, and the Randland characters never have any point of reference, so it's pretty easy to miss.


LewsTherinTalamon

It is! Obviously, esoteric and mysterious book passages are less directly visible than stuff in a show, but flying vehicles and massive skyscrapers were all mentioned.


Nonner_Party

It's there. Just not in any direct way. You really only get "glimpses" of the AoL when the Forsaken are reminiscing.


Seicair

And when Rand goes to Rhuidean. That’s your best description from the books.


noiwontpickaname

It's sort of like the Mercedes Benz Angreal/Ter'Angreal


PandaistApp

Didn’t they have a flying vehicle in the Rhuidean flashbacks?


MittenFacedLad

To an extent. Maybe not quite in this obvious of a way always.


Semarin

Great catch! I completely missed on this one.


Killawife

A river runs through it.


King_fora_Day

Yeah I thought that was a cool touch actually, because you can see in the AoL shot that there is a dam in the background, but in the "modern" day it is gone so the river just continues as expected.


Vatsdimri

That's cook.


Athire5

My wife’s mind was completely blown by the AOL cold open. I get that it had issues but it was absolutely a success for hooking new viewers!


Nicostone

I love this so much! Nice catch! On a side note, I know the show deserve some of the criticism but people are really going at it in this thread. Sad.


Mr_Kittlesworth

Oh man. Say whatever else you want about the show, that’s amazing.


babydemon90

I hadn't really checked in with all the complaining lately. Were people ok with the AOL flashback in the show, or was there fussing about that too. I thought the flashback was interesting. I don't recall the book going into details about "why" the female Aes Sedai refused to go, other then it was "too reckless", so adding in the risk to the power was interesting.


0b0011

Yeah there were quite a few complaints about it.


babydemon90

Lol. I didn’t particularly like the finale, but that bit I was fine with. What were peeps upset about?


0b0011

Some were upset that it existed in the first place because they think that if the towers were still standing they'd be flooded with people looking to check them out. Some people were upset that the city wasn't destroyed in the breaking. Some people (and I fall into this camp) think that they sort of fucked up the story a bit. In the books the dark one is caged and some aes sedai decide to bore into his prison to get at his power. This causes things to go to shit and a big war goes on for 3 generations and they are desperate because within a few months the dark one's forces will probably overwhelm them and win. As a final act of desperation Lews takes the companions and they successfully seal the dark one's bore which temporarily saves the world though in a final act he reaches out and taints the male half of the power. In episode 1 moraine mentions that men cannot channel the one power because men were so arrogant they thought they could cage the dark one. A lot of people took this to be just a silly assumption that they thought because it had been a few thousand years later. But then this episode came around and they had everything super nice and idilic and they never even brought up the war or anything so it made it come across less like a last ditch effort to save the world and more like he was just arrogant and thought that they could seal the dark one away and things would be nicer maybe which when taken with episode 1's whole bit about it all being arrogant men kind of makes it seem like they're going that way. In the scene rather than trying to plead his case like "oh hey if we don't do this we're all going to die" he instead says that they have the opportunity to "do something that's never been done before" by sealing the dark one away. I think that it just makes lews and the companions look bad but you've got a lot of people who for whatever reason seem to think it's some attack on all men to make them look arrogant or whatever.


FerrokineticDarkness

This adaptation is taking its time laying things out. The temptation among us, who are book readers who know everything already, is to hurry everything up so it features at the start. Who knows what it might feature in subsequent episodes?


0b0011

Sure but there's taking time laying things out and then there is just flat out changing stuff. Like sure they might lay things out slowly and not show the way of power but then give dialog that suits the fact that you're setting stuff up not dialog one way that you later recon.


Gentlemoth

They really made every effort into turning this into 'the arrogance of men doomed the world' rather than 'the Age of Legend aes sedai as a whole, and LTT saving the world at great cost'. It really rubbed me the wrong way and makes me question whether any of these writers have read further than the first book, if even that.


babydemon90

Ah, ok yea they didnt really show that it was in the middle of a war for sure, guess it didn’t bother me because there were still cities and such, it was before the Breaking. And Lews was pissed in the books the women didn’t help, so that felt ok. I kinda just took the scene as showing that. Moraine saying she thought men were arrogant isn’t far off from the reason women Aes Sedai didn’t help in the books.


TheGoblina

Randland teens get the best urban spelunking


Devtronix

Ok, yes! So I remember seeing the ruins and thinking to myself— well obviously this is something from the previous age. But totally did not connect it to the episode 8 scene, because I’m dumb. So thank you for helping us dolts! 🎉


Orph8

I'm in the same boat. It was obviously ruins from AoL, but I didn't connect that to 1e8 at all. Nothing wrong with that, though. Who's got the attention span to retain that sort of information nowadays anyway?


Devtronix

And there’s a hell of a lot to try to retain from WoT ing general, I mean the sheer list of Aes Sedai characters toward the end had me throwing up my hands. That and all the damn nobles— thank god for the wiki (I’m a late comer).


Zealousideal-Wave-69

Reminds me of Divergent TV film


snowbirdie

This exact screen shot comparison was posted a over a week ago when it aired.


King_fora_Day

I would have been surprised if I was the first to notice this. I was half expecting every comment to be "yeah, no shit sherlock!"


animec

\#nailedit


beastiebestie

Thank you for this. I didn't realize it was the same perspective! I love it.


DustTasty

I thought those were the Towers of Malkier. This makes so much less sense.


Thereisacoffee

That was Shot from episode 1 or 2, shortly after they started traveling away from EF. The 7 towers of malkier were shown in episode 8, while Rand and Moiraine were traveling through the blighted lands.


King_fora_Day

Actually the first shot was from Episode 1, just *before* Lan and Moiraine started travelling towards the Two Rivers. So we don't know exactly where they were - somewhere between Tear and the Two Rivers, closer to the latter I would assume.


Thereisacoffee

Fair


DustTasty

Gotcha.


baumpop

Ah Rhuidian


King_fora_Day

Rhuidean \[books\]>!was actually built after the Breaking, by the Jenn Aiel, with the help of Aes Sedai.!< >!https://wot.fandom.com/wiki/Rhuidean!<


donny_bennet

I'm fairly sure that this is just a reused set piece/ modified artwork, and not meant to convey anything else