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FourLeafViking

Watch the show with your wife. I doubt she'll divorce you if she thinks its crap:) My wife liked it well enough but felt the finale was underwhelming. She also liked it enough to start reading the series, which is a winwinwin for me:) So I think it's worth a shot.


Doomquill

It's only a win-win if she's still willing to watch the show after reading the books. My wife and I are pretty good at suspending our expectations for the show, and while the finale was underwhelming I still overall really enjoyed it. I'm op's "has every bit of lore memorized" and my wife has only read them once, so we make a pretty good sample for book readers lol


ZaelART

Edit: spoilers tags for show content Hey dude. I watched the show with my wife, she dropped it before the finale. She enjoyed the first four?, but then it seemed to get quite illogical and silly for her. I'm a fan of the books, and I understand people being annoyed about minute details because actually, those details are what make the books go from good to excellent for a lot of people. Now, I will just try and put some stuff in perspective. Why change little or "minute" details as you call them? There is no reason to do so, unless they had to change them because they have a different story planned. Consider the cold open you refer to, where Lews is called the dragon reborn... In the books, the dark one is able to influence the world because the aes sedai researchers in the age of legends cut a bore in reality (thinking they could access a universal power source). Instead, they bored into the dark one's prison leading to a whole lot of badness. There is the whole subsequent war of power and desperate fight against the shadow, in which the forces of good are losing badly. Show spoilers ep 8: >!None of that is communicated in the cold open. In fact, there is no sign of war or desperation. Lews speaks as if there is no such thing as the bore. In fact, he says he will cage the dark one, something which has never been achieved in history... what? If the dark one has never been imprisoned, and everything is a utopia, then who cares about imprisoning him or keeping him imprisoned? If you're not losing a war, why commit to a desperate act?!< Things seem like a small change, but the ripple effect is insane and logic breaking. Now, as you say, these are small details. The show changes way bigger things than this, this is nothing compared to the big sweeping changes to the plot and characterisation. Show spoilers ep 8: >!In the finale, Loial gets stabbed with the shadar logoth dagger. Apparently he survives? Nynaeve is burnt from the inside out, literally you see her eyes turn to ash in their sockets. Egwene heals her with no training. Even people from the age of legends thought that eyes were too complicated to rebuild with the one power.!< Now maybe I am just confirming your beliefs, by focusing on the stuff that might not worry you. But think about that power. Nynaeve and Egwene have both been shown to pretty much perform miracles. Forget channeling, this is like the work of the creator himself. Where do they go now? People are constantly being shown recovering from the brink of death with the flick of a wrist. It makes for frustrating television. Nothing seems to really matter. So from these little changes, big problems arise, not just because it is different, but because it detracts from the overall enjoyment when considering it as just basic television. Now some more show stuff which people may not like, part of the reason why none of the main characters get any character development and a lot of time is spent with other characters instead. The show has confirmed that they need to give more screentime to certain characters like Moiraine because they are big name, big paycheck actors with producing credits who you don't just keep on retainer for a season. This comes back to cause more problems... Spoilers for ep 8 (sorry, there is a reason it is rated the lowest of the series): >!Moiraine is stilled in the finale, specifically to give her plenty to do in season 2. Rafe confirmed they made this up to give her more screentime. Obviously this means screentime has to be taken from other parts of the story that already exist, which will cause the rest of the story and characters to suffer. May not be an issue for some, but I don't like it. They already did this with episodes 4, 5 and 6 that were mainly focused on Lan and Moiraine with very little for anyone else to do. It grates because people involved in the show consistently say there isn't enough time to bring material from the books to screen, but this is clearly false. It is a situation that they put themselves in.!< You can watch it for a bit of fun, personally I watched it all and found it OK in parts but only if I completely disassociate it to the wheel of time. But also, there are a lot of things that are just poor writing and poor production, no related to adapting the books. So yes, it can be enjoyed if you don't go in expecting much. Just keep your expectations low is the key.


unofficialrobot

Same. My wife really enjoyed it. I hate when people shit on a show adaptation because it wasn't exactly what they wanted. It was adapted for tv, so they have to keep tv audience in mind. Finale def underwhelming, but it was fun to watch. I wish that rand had a more epic battle with the one power like in the book, the ending in the book is pretty epic


Darthbile3321

As someone who fits your bill pretty well, the show seems pretty average all round. Only read the books once and really enjoyed them but can’t remember a whole lot, including some of the details/lore. However, even still, some of the changes and interpretations are mind baffling and really get in the way of my enjoyment. Overall, there’s no harm in giving it a watch if your interested, probably sits at a comfortable 5-6/10


NextedUp

I like to imagine it is a parallel world. It has a lot of things in common - some changes are neutral, some are good (for the medium), and others are bad. I think a of changes are neutral. But, I wish they'd limit changes to characters' personalities (Mat, forced love triangles right after fridging Perrin's wife, the "feel" of tTR, pointless/counter-characteristic sex scene [RxE, LxN, MxS]) and key actions (Rand at the gap, who went/what happened at EotW, etc.). It feels like the latter changes were made so the extended group could have scene where they were each "powerful" this season. It feels like they gave Nynaeve too much at the expense of other characters having their spotlight. I am hoping they will lay off that once the current character group splits up.


RepresentativeOk5968

Agree with your assessment. It does seem they gave way too much power to Nynaeve especially early on, at the expense of the other main characters. Heck she and Egwene stole the battle of Tarwin's Gap from Rand. I think you're right, they didn't want characters sidelined doing nothing but unfortunately they just made other characters sidelined and doing nothing (ShowPerrin especially was a nothing burger all season and especially in the last episode).


kMD621

To be honest, i liked the books, and i have not memorized every single detail in the books. And i never expected a word per word copy. So all in all, i was fine with the changes and i thought the show i was fine, i rated it at about 7/10. Thennnnnn i watched episode 8. And even without taking into account the books, i thought that episode, especially for a season finale, fell really short. Also they fail to follow the logic of the world, not just of the books, but of the show itself. (Best example is moiraine’s “don’t touch anything” and then a few minutes later, “okay lates sleep here”) So all in all, that finale killed it for me. The show went from 7/10 to 5/10 for me. I do hope they do a better job in the succeeding seasons.


-Majgif-

I've read the books multiple times, like full re-read for every book after book 7, plus a few re-reads since it was finished, including 1 just before the series dropped. I hated all the changes in episode 1 at first, but liked 2 and 3. After a rewatch, with new expectations about changes, I actually liked episode 1 as well. I enjoyed everything up to episode 8, which I thought was a cluster fuck of bad writing and directing.


kMD621

Yeah ep 8 left a sour taste in my mouth. Still, As long as they don’t reach the levels of what m night shamaylan did to avatar the last airbender, i’ll continue watching the show.


noticeyourpain

Yea I didn’t really like how the blight was done in the show. In the books they really pushed how hot and humid it was and also how it was a gradual transition from normal land to the blight. Like it didn’t just go from normal land to a million evil trees everywhere like in the show. The book described it much more realistically.


hookahvice

That was a covid restraint. They planned on filming it in a real world location (a jungle iirc) but they were forced to create it in a studio instead. It was in one of the behind the scenes videos. They didn't want to make the whole thing cgi so instead they made a version of the blight they could do with props.


kMD621

Yeah, i get that, and the trolloc army looked worse than it did in ep 1 because the stuntmen who wore the trolloc costumes were unable to return. Plus barney harris left so i get the awkward padan fain vs perrin encounter. I could have been okay with those. I don’t know, maybe it’s just nitpicking, and maybe it’s my own expectations, but with all the “who’s the dragon reborn” talk. I expected ep 8 to be rand’s moment. The episode had me go from: “okay you spent the season talking about how strong thr dragon reborn is, and trying to find out who he is, let’s see him kick some ass!!” To: “oh. He’s just going to stand there holding that glowing stone. He’s going to do something about trolloc army right? Oh. Already taken care of? Oh. Okay.”


hookahvice

Yeah I completely agree. That was my favorite part of the first book. Makes me nervous about other big moments from the books being done, like Dumai's Wells, if the show goes on that long.


kMD621

I would like to think that dumai’s wells would be adapted better. Because if the show does get to that point, they’ll have a bigger budget to work with. Plus based on what i read of a few of rafe’s interviews, dumai’s wells is his favorite scene from the books. So fingers crossed.


BlightBorn

My brothers are non-book readers. One brother loves fantasy. He loved the show. Other brother not so much into fantasy. Likes, not loves, the show. Other other brother completely not into fantasy. Is deeply confused... can't even remember character's names. Has no idea what is going on in the show. But as for your comment about Lews being called Dragon Reborn... don't talk to me.


UncleRooku87

I guess the lews being called the dragon reborn didn’t bother me because technically all dragons are dragon reborns.


bjlinden

Lews Therin being called "Dragon Reborn" would require there to have been a Dragon in the Age before the Age of Legends. We know what the Age before the Age of Legends was. [Books]>!Look around you. Do you see any Dragons running around, reborn or otherwise?!<


Roboticide

There's no indication that the "Dragon Reborn" in the Age before the Age of Legends though was called the Dragon. It's very likely they weren't. So much time passes in between the true re-sealing of The Bore and the opening of The Bore that they have to literally forget the Dark One exists. You think they remember that the guy they've forgotten about who sealed the thing they don't remember was called The Dragon? It is nitpicky sure, but it's just one of many indicators that the writers don't actually have a good grasp on what they're writing about, *or* they don't trust audiences to be smart enough to figure shit out. Ask yourself, why didn't they just call Lews Therin 'The Dragon' in that flashback? You think viewers wouldn't put it together? Especially when Ishmael calls Rand by that name later that episode? God, it's patronizing. They think we're morons.


potterpockets

Agreed. The unnecessary changes to Tarwin’s Gap and a poor job of explaining The Eye vs Shayol Goul and The DO vs Baalmazon are my biggest issues.


Kasheem21

I have been asking myself one thing the whole season, if I didn’t have book knowledge how would I feel about the characters? And I honestly don’t know. I don’t see any reasons behind what they do and a lack of setup that produced bad pacing. Episode 4 and 5 were really good as standalone episodes, but otherwise I think as a TV show it missed. Side characters come in and out with no rhyme or reason, some of which are important but you can’t tell which because of how they all hit the same. Rands story is largely hidden to setup a who is it. Perrin is paralyzed with less external moments that make little sense. Egwene is just kind of there, there’s no training or anything building. Nyneave, Lan, and Moiraine they mostly nailed as characters. Mat is an incomplete due to the actor leaving the show due to covid, can’t be mad at that life has been tough. Loial has a couple really amazing moments, but I feel like they didn’t setup how key he is so now he’s just kinda there. Overall I truly feel like they wrote out a 10 episode 11 hour season and when Amazon said no they cut three hours out and shot the rest instead of rewriting it down to 8. That’s the best way I can put it.


Ivythegr8

What are Loial’s amazing moments?


Kasheem21

Idk about amazing, but he brings a lot of knowledge and in tEoTW specifically Moiraine asks him to lead them through the ways as the Ogier know its guidings. I don’t think any of his story is necessary, but it slowly adds to the story without you even noticing. Just a good guy who’s always around and is the connection to bring the Ogier to the last battle, which is nice and I don’t think takes much building up to have.


Over-Cost6715

But you mentioned amazing moments while talking about the show. So it sounds like you're saying there were great Loial moments in the show. He's good in the books, but basically a non character in the show.


Kasheem21

Oh, misunderstood. The first time he kept trailing on about whatever after bringing Nyneave to Rand and Mat I laughed out loud pretty heavily, there were a couple moments like that. That’s all, just some small things that to me encapsulate him.


waterbottlehaha

It’s hard to have a neutral perspective as a book reader. The show doesn’t do a great job at honouring the books, but at the same time doesn’t necessarily introduce characters or plotlines in a way that makes them memorable without the benefit of having read the books. I can’t recommend it to neutrals with conviction that it’s a good use of your time, and certainly not better than competing shows at the moment like The Witcher or 1886. All my opinion only of course.


mimic751

honestly. not all the plot lines in the books were memorable


waterbottlehaha

There’s definitely a tonne of stuff from the books that will have to be removed to fit the shows schedule, and in a lot of cases won’t overly harm the general story direction. You asked for a book readers opinion whose not a fanatic, mine is that the show feels B or C grade compared to current competitors. Feel free to share your wife’s opinion if you give it a crack, I’ve enjoyed reading perspectives from people who don’t know the story.


Noblman_Swerve

Eh this is just copium, you could easily find reviews by non readers without making a thread about it. Regardless of whether the plot lines in the book were up to your high standards, the show isn't knocking it out of the park with its changes, by anyones measure.


[deleted]

Honestly I liked a lot of the changes. I find this is similar to how got and LOTR were initially received, the fandom store themselves apart screaming about how terrible the changes were and how awful the adaptions were. As we see now that side of those Fandoms are largely gone now. We’ll see what happens as more of the dust settles and the show gets to breathe more


xinexine

Agreed. I love the books, have reread multiple times & listened to the audio books. I also love the show and I love most of the changes. It's possible!


KaladinsDad

I was loving the show. Except for ep8. Kinda drops my average. I read about the actor/stuntmen/Covid challenges and the CGI vs burnface battle still fell flat for me. I will watch it for season 2, but I hope they can bring the quality back up now that the budget isnt being wasted on PPE and Covid test kits and hopefully no more midseason actor recasts. When it does well, it does well. (Tigraine fight scene was epic.) When it does poorly. Well sometimes it just doesnt look right. If Amazon was smart they would dump some extra money in and clean up CGI where they had no choice but to use CGI. Not much can be done about reshooting actors and dialogue, but large scale battles are mostly CGI anyways in a lot of modern movies.


kane49

I loved the show, i reccommended it to tens of people, easy 8/10. Then the last episode happened and it tained the entire season down to a 6/10. Im very confident they will knock season 2 out of the park though.


KaladinsDad

I hope so. I have a similar feeling to you. It's not that I minded Rand and Moiraines confrontation. That was good. (And very similar to something out of a later book as far as tempting Rand with a normal life.) Since the Eye is never a plot point again in the series, I was even okay with merging the Eye and the Dark Ones prison. CGI vs. Burnface was my biggest issue with that last episode.


Oskarvlc

So you liked the changes in the first and last episode? My gosh...


LostAndLikingIt

That's ok, not everythingn is for everyone. The plot lines seem very diferent already. If the show is changing how they do the set up, then the pay off will have to be different.


vinaigrettchen

I’m not making fun of you but I’m kind of amazed to see the Witcher mentioned in this light. WoT is a WAY more faithful adaptation to its source material than Witcher is (I really like both shows, though).


rooligan1

Hard to be impartial ofcourse, but I feel like the Witcher feels like a show I could watch because it looks good (except that weird dragon thingy?) and seems me immersed. WoT feels less professional, like it had a smaller budget? Didn't look nearly as good or immersige.


cc81

I think the Witcher is a bad adaption but a better written and executed tv show.


waterbottlehaha

I generally agree with you in terms of the closeness of the adaption, but I do feel the Witcher stands better on its own than WoT does. I’m probably inclined to be lenient there because I actually don’t like the Witcher books but enjoy the show. Again purely my opinion.


rhllor

And not just the TV show either. The Witcher games are just The Witcher in name, they're practically fan fiction. But I don't mind because I'm not a huge fan of the books in the same way that I'm also very critical about the WoT books and don't mind plotlines being struck wholesale.


Low-Repair-3019

I'm not one to get hung up on details as long as the show is compelling and interesting. I feel like they didn't do much to keep my interest and thought it was mediocre. I couldn't get a coherent sense of the world they were trying to build, the characters seemed to go from 0 to full-fledged sexual relationships in minutes of screentime. I've liked CW and Syfy shows that were more interesting.


T1773A054

I’d give it a 5/10. The show is underwhelming on the whole, due to the fact that it’s poorly written. Even if we ignore the deviations from the books, (of which there are a lot) or even pretend that the books don’t exist and that the show insists own thing it is still weak; because the fact remains that the even the show contradicts its own storyline and has major plot holes. And for a lot of characters, their motivations are not properly explained. The dialogue is clunky in places and feels forced. Not to mention the CGI looks wonky, the sets don’t look realistic enough. Think Shannara Chronicles rather than Game of Thrones. And it seems that Amazon is more interested in making their own version of GoT rather than adaptation the Wheel of Time books. And the director clearly has a certain message that he wants to send via the show. The actors actually did a fairly good job with what they were given. People who have not read the books may like it if they don’t think too much and just enjoy the ride. The books readers on the other hand would feel anything between indifference to outright hate. The reason is that when a book is adapted for screen the show runners need to ask themselves how do we adapt this story from books to screen. That’s not what’s happening here. Instead they are asking themselves, how do we improve the story, how would Robert Jordan have written it if he were alive in 2021 etc. And they have not done a good job answering those questions. Obviously as book readers we understand that there have to be certain changes in book to screen adaptations. But you need to leave the lore intact, and chip away the minor non essential stuff. The show has changed the lore itself, due to which it is not even the same story as the books. The book readers want the story that Robert Jordan wrote, not what Rafe thinks he should have written. Which is why the show is getting so much hate. PS - Also calling Lews Therin the Dragon Reborn is problematic because it was his heroics in the War of Power that gained him the nickname of The Dragon. This is the first time the battle against the Dark One is happening, at least as far as people are aware of. Rand is the Dragon Reborn because he is the reincarnation of Lews Therin in the next age.


Monty105

Okay. So there's a show being a good show and a show being a good adaptation. I think it's a bad adaptation. That said I also think it's a bad show. I don't think the cinematography is very inspired and I find the pacing to be jarring. I find there to be a lot of inconsistenies in the characters and the plot. The show has made lots of changes for the worse, not because they are simply changes but because they create problems in the story. A simple example is in the 7th episode, a character states something about two characters that has never been hinted at or foreshadowed in any way in the show. Another huge problem is death was cheapened in the final to such a degree that I could feel tension evaporate on screen. So no the show has a lot of problems as a show not simply as an adaptation.


akittenhasnoname

This is spot on. There were some moments I liked, but it's only because I filled the gaps of what was happening with what I read in the books. I genuinely don't understand some of the changes that were made which essentially kills any plot/character development in future seasons. I think they added those "deaths" to create drama but like you said only cheapened the story.


Monty105

Yeah if I hadn't read the books there are things I'd be lost on which puzzles me. Why make a show be its own thing and frustrate book readers only to rely on book readers to fill gaps in the shows plot? Idk if that makes sense but that's what it feels like has happened to me. Like expecting us to accept who the Dragon is because of a certain geographical location. I know it's significance but if I hadn't read the books I'd have no idea how of why that person was more likely to be the dragon then anyone else even up to that point.


akittenhasnoname

Exactly! My husband watched a few episodes and he kept asking questions about what was going on and what the significance was of certain things. He felt the show was boring and gave up on it. He said he probably won't read the books either now :(.


Monty105

Oh no I'm sorry to hear that. Have him listen to the audiobook in the car on a road trip!


Roboticide

> I think they added those "deaths" to create drama but like you said only cheapened the story. Deaths and "deaths" both add drama, but only death adds to the story. Can you imagine if they brought Ned Stark back at the start of Season 2? Sure, they *did* bring Jon Snow back, but he was *actually* dead for multiple episodes.


akittenhasnoname

The GoT showrunners did a good job using those deaths to move the story forward and they had genuine emotion. I wanted to read a Song of Ice and Fire after watching the first season. Egwene literally healed death through the power of friendship and is apparenty stronger than the Dragon Reborn. The show is trying too hard and it's just poor story telling.


Syrath36

That is something I wonder if I wasn't so attached to the books and since this is basically a re-imagining of them, would I like it without having read them for 30 years? To me it's a horrible adaptation. But I like or can enjoy just about any fantasy show like the B Dungeons and Dragons movies. Its clear for some people they don't care that it's completely different and I'm happy for them and new watchers but for me I can't continue as I don't enjoy it.


dehue

My husband has read the books a while ago so he doesn't remember the details and he likes the show. We were visiting his family this Christmas and introduced his mother to the show who knows nothing about the Wheel of Time and she has loved it.


GrumpyBearBank

I might be more of a fan than you wish. The show is about a 7 out of 10, with some higher highs than that and some lower lows. My friends and family - some readers, some not - really like it. Didn’t love the finale. And I forgive the biggest change because the actor forced them into it. But overall the changes made sense, the characterization, casting, and worldbuilding were good, the Trollocs and fades look cool, the CGI is average, and the dialogue is like the books, a little on the ugh fantasy side, but overall good. Lan and Moiraine were highlights. And Perrin was really good too. Frankly a lot of the criticism you see on certain websites is undeserved. Or at least not being fair. I’m excited for season 2. The show needs to grow a beard, but that often takes time.


wooltab

Going with the beard motif, we've had our "Encounter at Fa~~rpoint~~l Dara."


Doomquill

God bless all the humans (and Vulcans, Klingons, other sentient races, etc) responsible for keeping TNG going until it hit its stride in season 4. Who eked out just enough good episodes to make up *a little* for disasters like Encounter at Farpoint. The Inner Light is the single greatest piece of science fiction television ever made and nobody will change my mind on this.


Remy2089

"And I forgive the biggest change because the actor forced them into it." What did I miss???


wooltab

Mat not being involved in the last two episodes, because the actor left the production.


Mrjoegangles

The Actor who played Mat quit. No one knows exactly why. Some say Covid, haters of the show say it had to be the script, some claim it was a “me too” incident (which seems unlikely as it would have come out by now). Regardless there was almost assuredly a NDA involved so we might never know, and if we do find out I’m sure it will be 10 years form now after the shows run.


GrumpyBearBank

Mat’s actor Barney, for unknown reasons, refused to come back to the show after the Covid shit down or was fired. So that’s why the end of episode 6 is so wonky and why Mat just vanishes from the story


Remy2089

Ohhhhhhh. Ok, yeah, the comment makes sense now. I thought somebody twisted an arm somewhere for screen time or something. Lol Edit: COVID shit down is an accurate phrase.


Daydreamer6t6

Oh yeah, and when Barney Harris left the production, it was on short notice. So the writers had to scramble to create a different ending for episode 6 (when they enter the Waygate) and all of episodes 7 and 8. That certainly had a detrimental impact. On the bright side, the new "Mat" has a look that's every bit as mischievous as old Mat, so I'm looking forward to how he does in the role. Mat was perhaps my favorite character, short of the lead, in the books, and I think after another season you may start to understand why.


WoundedSacrifice

“COVID shit down”: 😆


Hyosteveo

I concur


Spacemilk

This guy hit it right on the nose.


Lan098

Fully agree. Been reading the books for more than half my life.


Belazriel

>I just saw some one say the show was ruined because they called lews "dragon reborn"... who gives a shit. I want to call attention to this because the issue with Lews Therin being called the "Dragon Reborn" rather than the "Dragon" may seem like a nitpicky issue but it's also an easily identifiable and easily fixed issue that sort of encapsulates a lot of the feelings people have about the show. It's like the pronunciation of Aang in The Last Airbender movie if such a movie existed. It's not a major plot point, but changing it is something we can easily point to and say "That! Why did you do that?!"


LegendofWeevil17

Also it’s the perfect example of how the show messed up explaining a pretty easy lore / backstory / world building. The show really needed to do one thing. Explain how there was a man named the Dragon, he broke the world trying to save it from the dark one. It’s prophesied that he will be reborn again, and that everyone is afraid of when that will happen. “The Dragon” is pretty much the worst thing you could call someone in the world. It would be terrifying for Moraine to say that one of you are the Dragon Reborn. But instead none of that is set up. In season 1 we have no idea what the dragon can do. We get no sense that anyone really cares that one of them is the dragon. And everyone I’ve talked to (book readers and not alike) all say that the finale was anti-climactic, because nothing was set up about the dragon reborn. So yes, calling Lews Therin “The Dragon Reborn” may seem nitpicky, but it’s central to why I think the first season failed.


hobomojo

We really needed that prologue to be kept in the show. It would’ve really helped explain why you wouldn’t want to be called the Dragon.


LegendofWeevil17

I think that’s what so frustrating to me, I completely understand that they needed to make changes, I can live with them focusing more on the Aes Sedai than Rand, understand their hands were tied with Mat’s actor leaving. But they could keep all that make just a few small changes to make it have more clarity / closer to cannon. - have the book prologue as the show prologue. And end with this prophesy: “And the Shadow fell upon the Land, and the World was riven stone from stone. The oceans fled, and the mountains were swallowed up, and the nations were scattered to the eight corners of the World. The moon was as blood, and the sun was as ashes. The seas boiled, and the living envied the dead. All was shattered, and all but memory lost, and one memory above all others, of him who brought the Shadow and the Breaking of the World. And him they named Dragon.” - have the characters have more of a negative reaction to moraine calling one of them the dragon reborn - little more focus on the significance of Logain as a false dragon. - show Rand use the power more / show a few more dreams - have Rand be the one to decimate the trollocs at the gap Not only do I think this moves the show way closer to cannon with hardly changing anything, it also clears up alot of confusion that I think a lot of non book readers have


Specific-Broccoli564

I'm dyslexic so the books were really hard to read. I enjoyed the series but struggled to remember who was who and what was happening. Audiobooks were just as confusing with the names as i had no clue how to read some of them, and it made hearing them confusing but fun. I love them even though I'm not sure what's happening and forgot most of it. The show is different, but I really enjoyed it. I got my wife to listen to the books last year and she got a little obsessive with the books. She got a nynaeve tattoo and a bunch of swag. She also enjoyed the show a lot. Its different but still fun. Don't watch it too point out what's wrong, watch to see what you can identify and see if the world is close to how you invisioned it. If say it's a 8/10 if you view it as the same world but the story is told via the telephone game. It's cheesy at parts, fantastic at others, and kinda cringe in the rest, but honestly what show isn't.


Lezzles

I'm a book reader that is a...somewhat critical fan of the books. Watch with my non reader wife. We both liked it. Probably 5 or 6 good episodes, 2 weaker ones. It's a WOT adaptation so I'm watching regardless but I enjoy, and I think the pieces are there for it to improve going forward.


Albiz

Yeah I agree. Overall there’s some good stuff to work with. Personally my biggest gripe is actually the cheesy green screen… a bit too obvious. Hope they can improve on that


Drakotrite

I think part of that is that Covid delayed setting up Jordan studios until season 1 was completed. That probably means they had to use a smaller sound stage than they wanted.


code_boomer

I've read the books several times but don't tend to get hung up on changes. I liked the show quite a bit. There were some parts where I liked the story they were telling better than the one in the books and some parts where I liked it less (not simply because it was a change, but rather due to how it was executed). The show does a decent job of translating books that are harder to translate than anything I've seen live action on TV before. The writing is a bit clunky at times on it's own merit, but they've also managed to streamline quite a bit. The actors are very good, and they capture the essence of all the characters very well. I personally liked the costume and set design, I thought it was unique and very beautiful. The lighting and camera work is sometimes a little off but not overly distracting. The dialogue is okay, with a few very good lines. Overall I'd give it a 7.5/10, independent of the books.


wooltab

I'll second this this. I think that the actors and the visual/audio design are really terrific (and I love the places in Czechia and elsewhere that they found for location shoots). The materials going into this show are very good. The way that it's shot hasn't impressed me too much, but that's not a huge deal. Managing the story, that's been hit-and-miss. I think that they've solved a few challenges/problems in the translation to screen, while creating others. But in any case, I think that character chemistry and relationships are well established, and the source material will give this plenty of opportunities to improve as it goes along. I just hope that the showrunners trust the books enough to let their strengths shine.


wayoftheleaf81

Agree with this


Trot1995

This accurately describes my feeling of the show. It's good not great has some flaws and has potential to get better.


CountEarlButtinski

I think your review is the one that most concisely fits all my thoughts about the show, wholehearted agreement there. I have to say, the last few days with the vehement hate for the last episode (I know, some of it was on the ball, people are allowed to feel their feelings, etc), kinda took away the excitement I had found in connecting with other people who loved the overarching epic that is Wot, especially with how watch alongs of the show renewed it. I hope with some time we can go back to that.


code_boomer

I feel that. FWIW myself and everyone I watched with for the most part liked the last episode, save a few stumbles here and there. I think people tend to just be most vocal when they are disappointed and will probably cool down soon.


paddypatronus

Completely agreed. There are so few series which nail dialogue, so I haven’t marked this series down too much for its occasional straying into flat, unnatural lines. What has frustrated me is the needless introduction of superfluous fantasy tropes (like the warder grief ceremony), which don’t serve much purpose beyond cementing this in genre. Seems kinda pointless, but it’s not a dealbreaker. Leaving behind certain bits of lore isn’t that big a deal to me. If you need that stuff, the books are still there to enjoy. Also, this is sacrilege, but the first book is a narrative mess and I think the changes go some way to relieving that. For me, the series has absolutely shone in the way it visually realises the world. Fal Dara and Tar Valon were eerily close to how I had pictured them and, with a few forgivable exceptions, the characters are too. The thrill of that alone is enough to keep me watching despite the middling bits and despite groaning from time to time during viewings, I have eagerly awaited each new episode.


code_boomer

Agreed, although I'm in the boat of actually really liking the warder grief ceremony. To me it was a really neat bit of world building that had an impact which was unique to the medium (simply reading about it would not have felt nearly the same to me as seeing it on screen with the music/sound design to go along). I thought it was one of the changes that best suited the strengths of a new medium, and as an episode totally removed from all context I thought it was really well done. That being said, in the context of the entire season, I totally see why people didn't like it.


DenseTemporariness

I liked seeing more of Warders. In the books they can be a bit one note. And a bit hard done by. They’re these people dedicated to other people who they treat like their safety is their own personal holy mission. They’re constantly ready to die for someone else. But there are indications that they are sometimes abused and at best rarely get any kind of real life. Considering also that they are chosen incredibly young by women who might be old enough to be their grandmothers. And to top it off if their Aes Sedai dies that is it, suicidal rage and just plain suicide. They give their whole lives up for the greater good as judged by their Aes Sedai. And get sort of ignored as the Aes Sedai’s shadows or guard dogs. So really great to see that they are allowed to be actual humans in the show.


mauddibagogo

I’m on my first reread of the series since I was a kid and love the books to death … my view on Season 1 is: it’s good and fun, as long as I separate it a bit from the books. The character writing is strong, and it’s very colorful and vibrant and upbeat where a lot of adult fantasy is bleak and grim and depressing. I don’t get every decision made, but I looked forward to each episode and had a lot of fun in the finale. If there are things I disagree with, well, I still have the books! EDIT and the soundtrack is very good.


Pelican_meat

It’s good. Worth a watch.


mimic751

perfect


There_is_no_plan_B

I’m a book reader who’s honestly scared of sharing my opinion on this sub because I assume lll get downvoted but I’ll take your question as the opportunity to do so. I LOVED the series. There are changes of course but the soul of the series is wheel of time. It’s well shot for the most part, and though it feels rushed a lot season 1 for me set up a lot, introduced several characters very well, and had a fantastic climax. I love these books and I’m loving this show even though it’s different in many ways. If I want to read the books I’ll… y’know… read the books.


-Majgif-

I liked (wouldn't say loved) everything up to the last episode. Can you honestly say you loved episode 8?


Xenothulhu

Yeah I’ve read the books a couple dozen times (most recently to refresh before the show started) and I also really loved the show.


portlandspudnic

This is me. Loved the books and the show. I'm pretty easy to please. Excited for season 2 and sad I have to wait so long for it!


sleepybarista

Same here!! Also some of the die hard haters are actually wrong about the details they get upset about... especially if you read extended lore from RJ interviews :p Addendum: debating starting a list of rebuttals to turn jnto my own post so I can give the down-voters specific things to be upset about.


MathNerdMatt

I'm rereading the series right now because of the show and it's so funny to see the number of things people say in here that are just blatantly false


Shepher27

I saw someone get mad that they never explained that it was \[show spoilers\] >!Ishamael, not the actual "Dark-one" completely ignoring that the books don't tell you that until the very end of book three (although they set it up in book 2). The show credits Fares Fares as Ishamael.!<


MathNerdMatt

Yeah people be mad that they hyped it up like the last battle when Rand at the end of book one is like "I just killed Shai'Tan, the war with the Dark One is over!"


AMuPoint

I'm up to them leaving Shadar Logath on my first reread and it has been amazing seeing all the details that made it into the show and how many nitpicking comments from over the season are wrong.


MathNerdMatt

"I can't believe they used the one power in the ways, so unrealistic and moraine opening the waygate? That's Loial's job" as if Moraine doesn't open the first gate with the leaf and then One Power blasts the waygate in Fal Dara open


Drakotrite

Same. The constant, 'If you liked it you didn't read or understand the books' is very draining.


blindedtrickster

The kind of people you're talking to are functionally zealots. Anything less than perfection is flaming garbage. I tend to skim through their comments but don't put stock into their opinions. I've really enjoyed each episode. Of course some episodes will be stronger than others, but I felt that each one did what it needed to do. With all that said, I think book 1 is possibly the least ambitious of the series. Going into season 2 has me all sorts of hyped up. I almost feel bad for the fella taking over for Mat. The first guy did a bang up job.


Drakotrite

Barney was amazing and hopefully the new Mat will keep it up. I really hope season 2 and 3 get more episodes because that is my biggest complaint. There just wasn't enough time to give some larger scenes breathing room. Other than that I loved the show.


WoundedSacrifice

Since they were filming season 2 before season 1 premiered, I think season 2 will almost certainly have 8 episodes. Season 3 might have more episodes.


Shepher27

Yeah, I though Barney was great as Mat. I hate that one of the actors leaving mid-filming caused them to have to scramble to write around his absense. Some of the strange things in the Finale came from a Mat-sized hole they had to write around. Hopefully the new Mat is just as good.


Onto_new_ideas

I listened to the books once, but never the final two or was it 3? Several of Robert Jordan's writing quirks drive me batty (braids!). I liked them, but they aren't in my top 10 series, maybe top 60? I've made it through 5 episodes. I can only watch after my son goes to bed. I hate how old and sexualized they made the 5. There were so young and innocent and naive in the books, then grew. I've read the rationale, I understand it, but don't love it. I'll watch the series, I'm enjoying it. But it isn't mind blowing. They are compressing it too much and it just feels very driven by Amazon vs being more true to the story.


chadwick7865

I’ve only read through the books once, so I’m definitely no expert on all the minute details of the story. That being said I thoroughly enjoyed season 1 and felt that it does a good job introducing the world and the necessary concepts of the first few books for the show to gain its foundation. This means that the plot of the first book was changed quite a bit in order to fit in other world building elements, but to be honest I really don’t even remember the plot of the eye of the world all that much and remember certainly that a lot of it isn’t that super critical to the entire plot overall. As long as the proper elements are introduced and the main locations and plot points are adapted, I’m a happy viewer. I felt that season one accomplished this, but certainly not without its issues. I still think there were too few episodes which caused it to feel a bit too fast paced and the whole casting debacle with mat and the last two episodes is definitely detrimental to the story, but I forgive them for having such a situation to deal with in the first place especially during a pandemic. Overall I very much enjoyed the show and am looking forward for them to adapt the rest of the story as well


ughisanyusernameleft

I thought it was pretty good! I’m a longtime reader and there were a few things that bugged me, but I enjoyed being surprised and I thought they did a pretty good job. Most of the complaints on this sub wouldn’t be noticed by casual readers/new fans. I do agree that they could have used more time to introduce the story/characters but a lot of tv shows get better as they go along, and I think that this one will too!


dhenr332

I listened to the books while washing Windows! Honestly, I love the show. It’s different from the books but I think it’s really well done. If you want a well made production with a great cast, I think you’ll like this. I had lots of “what?!” moments that I think are awesome. I’m sure you would love the series if you feel the same about the books as I do


BuilderThat476

That's me! I've read the books twice and listened to the audio books once so I'm a huge fan but I forget things constantly about the books. I think maybe it's helped me enjoy the tv series more because I'm not always noticing when something is changed, also there are times when it seems familiar but it's the show mixing similar themes and scenes from the books into one simpler format. I think this is a bonus with how long the books are and for the most part I think it's done well. There are some pacing issues here and there especially in the first episode but I found myself at the edge of my seat for multiple scenes, both from the book and not from the book. The casting and acting is the best part of the show for me which I think is important since the characters are my favorite part about the entire series. I'd give the first season a strong 7/10, maybe even an 8/10 or at least moving in that direction.


wjbc

I've read the books four times and I *love* the show. The problem is, I don't have as much to say as the people who dislike the show. I don't have any complaints, so what more can I say?


mimic751

Awesome! Do you think an on book reader would enjoy it?


Pelican_meat

Yeah.


mimic751

awesome. starting it tonight. thanks!


lucusvonlucus

I’ve read the first 9 books something like 7 or 8 times and the whole series a couple of times. I quite like the adaptation. I don’t understand all the changes but it’s entertaining and has potential to get across the themes and characters I love in the books. My wife has never read the books and quite likes the adaptation as well.


mimic751

perfect. Thank you so much for your response. I really dont get hung up on details, as long as it has the right.... feel. if that makes sense


Hasselhoff1

It will have the right feel. I feel like these are our characters.


X-Thorin

Let us know what you think of it!


LadyDrask

I’m a “super fan” in that I’ve read the series multiple times over the past 25 years, I have a tattoo and a child named for the books and I love them more than any book I’ve ever read. I LOVED the show! It’s not a 1:1 and it never could be. As much as I love Jordan’s writing and the world he has built - it’s high fantasy written in the 90s! So much of what I love would look naff or just be boring on screen It has pacing issues, but nothing I can’t overlook and I’m hopeful that part will improve. I didn’t love episode 8, but most of my issues can be explained away by production issues beyond the control of the show runners. Every non book reader I’ve spoken to is really enjoying it. And as a fan I’ve teared up so many times. The characters and the world FEEL like when I read the books. As far as adaptations go, I think it’s better than what I had hoped for. It’s hard to be objective, but comparing to how I felt watching season 1 of GoT, Witcher, really anything - I like it as much and more. Wait what was the question again?! haha I just love WoT book and show and supplementary material and love to talk about my love of it!


StarvingWriter33

Book reader. Love “The Wheel of Time” but can admit the books had its flaws. Fully understand that a TV adaptation will bring along some changes — partly to fit the TV format and partly because how else are you going to cram 14 novels into eight 8-episodes seasons? The first season was a solid 7. There are some inconsistencies within the show itself, and the pacing was incredibly uneven. Weakest episodes were 1 and 8. GoT S1 was vastly superior to WoT S1. I’d rate WoT S1 just a notch above Witcher S1. Some of the issues were beyond the producers’ control (8 episodes imposed on them by Amazon, COVID lockdowns & restrictions, and Barney Harris’s departure). Other issues, though, the producers could’ve done better (certain plot choices, lighting & staging of scenes, costuming) and hopefully this will be fixed in S2. The book (EotW) had its flaws, and the show tried to fix some of those. In some ways the show was successful. In other ways, the show just replaced the flaws with their own flaws. Still, I’d recommend you check it out. 7/10 isn’t terrible.


wadenater123

I started reading the books about 4 years ago and finished them about 2 years ago. That was the only read through I have ever done. I loved the books but have forgotten a lot from the earlier books. I watched the show and honestly thought episodes 1-7 were pretty good. I know they didn’t follow the books super closely but they were at least entertaining to me. Episode 8 I thought was pretty trash but mainly because they keep trying to fake kill characters and that’s starting to get old. I also feel like they are changing things just to change them which is kind of annoying. I give the show a solid 6.5 out of 10. Worth a watch but nothing special. I am currently rereading eye of the world (I started about 2 weeks ago or so) and have forgotten how much I enjoyed them. It’s crazy how much you forget about the story in 4 years. If anything good has come from the show it’s that it got me not just reading the series again but reading period. (I haven’t read any books is like a year). That’s my review from someone whose not a fanatic but loves the books.


PuritanicalPanic

I thought it was pretty good. Didn't like the finale. But am withholding judgement till I see where it goes. If they ruin Mat I'm done. His chapters were the only reason I made it to the end of the books. However they handle it will be messy, due to the actor leaving, but I'm fine with messy if it's not a disaster


Suialthor

I've read the series a few times and understand that it is an adaptation (not word for word mirror of the books). The show is good but suffers a little from being rushed to fit 8 episodes. The last 2 episodes had additional issues with covid etc... that has to be taken into consideration when judging them.


vezkor09

Yea it’s good. Stop reading Reddit and just enjoy it in your own way.


backyardofbourbon

Read all the books. Watched the show. The show changed some things, some that feel big. Reading this sub since the end of the last episode has made me feel sad. Do I wish the show was more true to the books? Sure. Do I also know that shows or movies almost never are super close to books? Yes of course. The level of righteousness in this sub is wild and honestly depressing. I enjoyed the show and look forward to new episodes.


rocketparrotlet

I read the books once, and some of the minor changes are ok with me. I really enjoyed episodes 2-6, despite some flaws. However, episode 8 was too much for me to take. Saying that it deviated from the source material would be an understatement. The climax of the first book was completely removed and replaced with a nonsensical and unsatisfying sequence of events. Characters were entirely changed for unknown reasons, and the CGI just looked...well...bad. I was really able to put my doubts aside for episodes 1-7, but I feel legitimately betrayed by episode 8.


ultraboykj

I try to imagine the TV series as the same story but told by someone that wasn't there and filled in the details through 2nd or 3 hand recounts of others. It worked for most except the last episode. I'm am relatively enjoying the series, but the extreme changes annoy me. Like the ladies defending Tarwin's gap for instance. It isn't a major turn off, more - why? I'm praying as the series goes on, it will be explained better. Rafes interview: [https://ew.com/tv/the-wheel-of-time-showrunner-burning-questions-season-1-finale/](https://ew.com/tv/the-wheel-of-time-showrunner-burning-questions-season-1-finale/) helped a little. I'm no where near "hung up" on the details nor have every piece memorized, but I made the silly mistake of reading along with the series as it was coming out. Some things were just so glaring, so I stopped doing that. I'll re-read between seasons. I'd give a 6/10. Its decent and entertaining with moments of tingles. I'm certain they will keep most of the expected major events from the books. Like the sword, Dumais wells, Rhuidean, Bowl of winds, the a'dam etc.


rafaelflea

read the books once, around the time A Memory of Light was released. i think the show is really weak. bad cinematography, spotty cgi, terrible writing. the actors are really good, except for maybe perrin, but the poor sob has had nothing to work on. the writers had the privilege to work on good source material and they showed nothing. for instance, on the first book the magical aspects are not fully developed, nor the ramifications. nevertheless, we have a whoisthedragon that makes no sense, and people who are not terrified of a male Dragon. we see lews therin as cocky male who destroys the age of legends by hubris. i mean, there were points to be improved. RJ could write better the female POVs. but making nynaeve and egwene insanely OP doenst make that right. the whole men are from mars and women are from venus in WOT i disagree with, but is kinda the core of the story... if u fundamentally change that idk, u maybe get something ok, if u do good writing. thats not what we got here.


JJBrazman

I read the books years ago, and I was really enjoying the show right up until the last episode when... it took a bit of a nosedive. I’m quietly hopeful that that was mostly to build end of season tension, and some of the apparent changes will turn out to not be what they seem. Most of the changes they’ve made are simplifications that make sense, ‘edgy’ but not huge changes to backstories and creative adjustments that try to make the story more of an emotive journey into the unknown and less of a ‘get character X from A to B’. None of these will mean anything to you if you haven’t read it. There are also a few weird set piece moments that seem to disregard common sense such as (minor spoiler for ep 8) >!choosing to make a stand outside a supremely well defended fortress rather than using the actual defences!< that have come out of tweaks to plot clashing with the original story. I think what’s frustrating people is that there’s beloved stuff being left out to apparently save screen time for power posing. Many of the changes have no reason to them at all, begging the question as to why they were made, given that they are quite disrespectful to the source material. If you’ve read the books at all, you’ll definitely pick up on some of it. I don’t think it’s objectively bad, and I’m broadly enjoying the series whilst texting my friends saying ‘was X in the books?’. It could be better, but it’s absolutely worth watching in my opinion.


Sarene44

I can see what they’re doing with the show in broad strokes, setting up plot lines now in s1 that will help them hit major plot marks as we go. I acknowledge this is necessary to adapt 14 HUGE books into as many seasons as they can. However, Amazon did us all dirty by only giving us 8 episodes. This first season had the pacing issues of season 7 of game of thrones. However, some key setup has been left out and I’m not sure how they will reconcile it later on…. All in all, it’s a C+ for me, maybe a B- because of Nyneave who is my fav book character, I love her on screen too. (I’m a fanatic book fan, but am choosing not go be rabid about changes because it was NEVER going to be 1 for 1. Some disappointing things, some good things, but mostly season 1 growing pains and Amazon being cheap and filming this in a pandemic. I have cautiously optimistic hopes that s.2 will be better.)


uncel_dolan69

I’m by no means a fanatic and up until episode 7 I think they did a great job. Still think by the way - the pictures, the cast - pretty good! They butchered the finale imho tho. Just too many (in my opinion) totally nonsensical changes. Like literally why? (Eotw piece, Nyaneve and Egwene, Battle in the gap etc.). I will still keep watching though. My wife didn’t read the books and liked the show, but also didn’t like the finale - overpaced.


gurgelblaster

I've read the books, the whole series once, and the beginning probably something like three times in various languages? I liked the show - the season finale came out of the left field for sure, but under the circumstances they've done a great job, and the acting and dialogue has been on point the whole season imo.


Chapea12

I’ve read the first 4 books and enjoyed them: I really enjoyed season 1. Yes, there were a number of changes, but I loved watching the show and would put it up there with Witcher season 1 personally (although GOT season 1 was better than both). Granted.. the worst episode of the season was the finale.. but i plan on rewatching the season soon, can’t wait for the show to continue, and have been getting an itch to pick the books back up and finish. My worry is enough people are gonna review bomb because of every little change and potentially influence my watching experience or much worse, influence the Amazon decision makers to cut the show. I’m loving how much is being put into making fantasy shows right now and want that to continue. There is no way to perfectly adapt any of these series, so idk the perfection people are seeking


Strong-Neck-5078

I don't think we shoukd disparage fans for getting hung up on minute details when they completely bastardized some of our favorite characters. It's a shame Rafe felt the need to make the show so much like... idk Game of Thrones in terms of tone. The Wheel of Time stood just fine on it's own, it's a cornerstone of the fantasy world and the changes were unnecessary in my opinion. I could never enjoy this show, its borderline insulting to me some of the changes that were made. Rant over, I don't want this show to fail. Just because I loathe it's existence i wish I didn't. Its somewhat irrational, but I've wasted to much emotion hating it, that wont change anything at this point. My dad and brother loved it, and anything that gets people into fantasy gets a thumbs up in my book. If you like this show continue to support it.


TH3_R3D_QU33N

I read the series twice 10+ years ago, and maybe once since then. Love the show, love the changes made, and everyone I know who hasn't read the books feels the same (including people who aren't enormous fantasy fans). That's anecdotal, but I think it certainly ties in with viewership numbers. Almost all the complaints I've seen come from people who are furious about small changes to characters or lore, and often about things that wouldn't work on-screen (e.g. characters being entirely outwardly unemotional). *My* only complaint has been some questionable editing, where you can see a scene was meant to go somewhere but it cuts rather abruptly. I know that's time/COVID changes related, but it's a really beautiful show and it could definitely use a little more room to breathe than Amazon has given it (8 hour-long episodes is short for a book of its size). Overall, I think it's a great spiritual adaptation and a *pretty* good literal adaptation relative to most adaptations. I'm finding it equally if not more loyal to the spirit of the books than Game of Thrones was, even though GoT started pretty faithfully and just added in gratuitous nudity, with extra brothel scenes and more prostitutes than the books had. This is a more challenging adaptation (bits of high fantasy dialogue, lots of magic, lots of exposition, lots of content), where GoT just had to introduce a mostly nonmagical fantasy world to start with. I feel it captures the appeal of the series without getting bogged down by the sheer weight of information needed to get to the plot. If you aren't a rabid book fan, then I wouldn't take the reviews from dedicated subreddits too seriously. By nature, it's a group of people who so loved the series that they're still dissecting it and pouring over minutiae decades later. As much as the show obviously wants fans to like it and is helmed by dedicated fans, that's not Amazon's target audience: you are.


kdeselms

As a fan of the books I really tried to be forgiving...but they have just strayed so far from everything that matters in just one season that I can't watch any more. It is bitterly disappointing because I waited 30 years for this and they are blowing it, and I know it'll never get a proper translation now. So I'm pissed.


quanya

It’s a solid watch and you will be entertained. 8/10 in my view.


Wolfgang_Stoneheart

Watched with my wife. I’m a hardcore book fan and she’s read the first six books mostly casually. We were both completely on board with the first seven episodes and thought they were well made and entertaining. I had a few more hang ups with certain decisions the show made such as mat being a bit more of a dark character even before the dagger (I think happy go lucky, mischief mat would have been hard to adapt to screen so I get it). My wife actually had tears during certain episodes because for the first time in her life she had strong women leads in a fantasy setting portrayed on TV (I think this is seriously overlooked in this sub and despite how this series does overall, I think it will be looked back at as an example of needed change in the TV industry). That said, we both had a lot of issues with episode 8 and I really hope season two takes more time to develop storyline and characters because pushing everything into eight episodes obviously didn’t work. I don’t think Rafe or anyone on set is at fault for this. Amazon shouldn’t have restricted them on episode count and it showed.


RepresentativeOk5968

I doubt this show will be an example of change. If you want strong women leads in fantasy you have plenty to choose from the last 20 years: \-GoT (Cersei, Dany, Sansa, Arya, etc) \-Buffy from 25 years ago... \-Firefly 20 years ago \-True Blood There are tons of them. I didn't care for any of the female leads in WoT except for Moiraine and I think that was because Pike was pretty great actress. Not really Egwene's fault as she doesn't come into her own for several books. Nynaeve is alright but I feel like she was given too much to do in season 1 that wasn't earned yet by her character.


Wolfgang_Stoneheart

I haven’t seen true blood or Buffy so you might be right on those. With GOT and firefly the women leads are strong, but the worlds were controlled by men so they weren’t quite the same for me or my wife. With WOT in the books and on screen the women are clearly in control of the world. It just hit different for my wife and all I can go off is her reaction since I’m a dude. Firefly is another amazing show though in my personal opinion.


Apostolate

What about shannara chronicles or shadow and bone? There's more than one fantasy show lead by a woman ...? Confused by the in her life time line. There's more than that but this are recent examples.


code_boomer

>My wife actually had tears during certain episodes because for the first time in her life she had strong women leads in a fantasy setting portrayed on TV (I think this is seriously overlooked in this sub and despite how this series does overall, I think it will be looked back at as an example of needed change in the TV industry) Thank you for recognizing this. Everytime someone goes on a rant about "reeeeee why are the women so OP, it was so much better in the books when Rand was OP" or "why did we waste so much time on Moraine/the white tower" I die a little inside


jay_dar

There were ways to do exactly what you wanted without changing the lore.


Syrath36

Thank you. They didn't need to sideline Rand he is the main protagonist and the took everything from him and didn't develop him or the Dragon reborn, reborn at all. Plus e8 and TG why do you even need a dragon reborn, reborn?


Forsaken_Order

Might be a better plan to write to the movie studios, and tell them you want more Marion Zimmer Bradley, or Anne McCaffrey adaptations, instead of dying a little inside whenever some man's book isn't rewritten the way you want.


code_boomer

Why? There's plenty of strong women in that mans book. It's the fans I find appalling, not the book or the adaption


MikasasUrBae

I was so grateful they made a movie of the series I grew reading. I don’t think they destroyed it, I think they did a good job.


Oliver_the_Dragon

I've got silly amounts of lore memorized and a WoT tattoo, so I'm probably not who you're looking to hear from. But I don't get to talk about WoT enough, so here goes anyway! The show is great! It is so different from anything else on TV right now: it's effortlessly inclusive, honestly there isn't loads of dialogue but the actors kill their face-acting, a little quippy but not Marvel-quippy, it doesn't shy from violence but it doesn't glorify it either, there's not a huge "gore" focus, 95% of the nudity is casual and completely nonsexual (as well as quite tasteful), sex is implied but not shown. There's a little bit of odd pacing here and there, and every episode feels a little too short for my liking. I'd say the very first, middle, and last episodes were the three weakest in terms of payoff. All told, the story hit all of the major beats and then some, it set itself up well for the second season (and I'm sure further seasons). There's also some nice little nods to LotR throughout, which is true to the first book. I recommend this show to every person I meet. My hairdresser, my coworkers, my gynecologist, my neighbors, my husband's friends (I have no friends), my cat. I'd say watch the first three episodes before deciding one way or the other. As a super fan whose opinion you didn't really want, I don't think you'll regret watching the show.


NiWess

I also love the show and love your comment! Good job on spreading the word to your circle — I’m doing the same!


Oliver_the_Dragon

Thanks! It certainly wasn't a flawless season, but for a season 1 of a high fantasy show that was also navigating a global pandemic, I'd say it did a pretty good job! I never expect perfection, and certainly not in season 1.


myBoboThrowaway

It’s generally shit. Poorly written, badly paced, ignores the source material for no reason, invents new material for no reason and is not going to survive to tell a complete story


Bansheesdie

From a review on Amazon: "Not going to waste too much time on this. If you were looking for a faithful adaptation of the Wheel of Time, this is NOT it. If Amazon had just decided to do "Generic Fantasy Series #112," I would give it a better review. They chose to pollute the Wheel of Time name though, so they get the harsh score." That is the perfect synapsis of this season.


mimic751

like I said. I really dont get hung up on the story. my favorite show is the magicians and I am pretty sure the show runner shoves the book up his ass by episode 2


Deviate_Taco

I watched the magicians and loved it. So I decided to read the books and just wow.... the difference. The book was terrible, and not because I saw the show first. The book was all over the place, bad pacing, just mo ths going by every page it felt like. The entirety of brakebills is started and ended before the first book is done. (The first book isn't even 550 pages on my phones google play books) so let's be thankful that whoever made the show realized they could take a good concept and make an amazing show. With that said, the WoT is completely opposite. The showrunners have started with a book series that has great story, intriguing plots, amazing character growth, and flips the overdone "who is the chosen one" trope into a story of how does the chosen one deal and overcome. They have ended with an average CW looking show that takes much of what is good about the eotw book so we can go back to yet another who is the chosen one, and that love conquers all tv show. It's boring and overdone.


Forsaken_Order

I'm still confused as to what they took from the book. I'm 5 1/2 episodes in, and everything I've seen in the show so far that is sourced from the books, you can get by reading the synopsis on the flaps of the dust jacket.


myBoboThrowaway

Hahahah nice . Yeah, I was never a hardcore details fan but even if I hadn’t read these books, the show would be hitting Shannara levels of crap for me. Even basics like the cinematography are bland, some of the CGI is close to Xena/Hercules without the charm and the characters are hard to feel any sort of attachment to, with the possible exception of Egwene


Deviate_Taco

Can I ask why you even posted this? Reading through the comments it seems that you disagree with anyone that says it's terrible (you don't care about the story, the book plots aren't that good anyway, the characters aren't good), and you readily agree with any comment that says the show is good. You clearly made up your mind about the show before you even posted this, it just seems like you're fishing for people to give you validation for wanting to like the show.


gdlyn

I think I’ve read the books 40-50 times, it’s my favorite series. With that being said I enjoyed the show. Yes there were some things that made me scratch my head about choices but I’m excited to see where the show goes. Like any new series this one has its issues mainly stemming from having to try to world build for non book readers this massive land and magic system, plus having one of the core actors leave the show during filming. I will watch season 2 before I make a final judgment about the series and its future.


DEN0MINAT0R

I think I fit your description reasonably well. Personally, I like the show, but it’s not perfect. The performances by the main cast are excellent, and I think they’ve largely done a good job capturing the essence of the characters from the book, with a few changes (notably Mat). I think the majority of problems I have with the show stem from factors that are largely outside the control of the show creators; namely, time and budget. They’ve had to compress a great deal of content into 8 1-hour episodes, and it shows, particularly in the first 2 episodes. The special effects are overall decent (I particularly like the practical effects for the shadow spawn), but not uniformly great. Also, COVID restrictions (plus the actor for Mat leaving) had a very large impact on filming and postproduction of episodes 7 & 8. For what it’s worth, Ep 7 is excellent IMO, but Ep. 8 clearly suffers for the changes. This is obviously my subjective opinion, but I think the show has the potential to be great in future seasons, if Amazon is willing to invest enough to make it so. Right now, I’d give it an overall 7/10.


Carvahal

I love the books been through 1-14 over a dozen times. I'm really loving the show. It's not perfect by any means. There have been a few times I was really shocked by the choices that have been made. I have to reset my mind and separate the story I know from the way they are telling the story. I find myself rewatching each episode and have liked each more the second time around. That was true for the books as well for me. The show has captured the spirit of the wheel of time in that way. The cast has been spectacular all the main and most of the supporting roles are portrayed very well. The story feels a bit rushed and has pacing issues. The show could've been stellar if they were allowed 20-30mins per episode or 10-12 hour long episodes. I know several new watchers that have really liked the show and cant wait for season two. The first season had some bumps but was thoroughly enjoyable. The show has tons of potential and if they can keep this main cast together it can be something really special. I hope they get to tell the entire story it's an incredible epic and deserves to be consumed by the masses.


Top_Breadfruit143

I love the show and I was a book reader


nonstop2nowhere

It's worth noting I have some experience with writing, screenwriting, and filmmaking. I'm a long time casual fan of the books who enjoyed it again as my kids each got old enough. I personally loved the show. Of course there were things I wanted to see and didn't (but I have the books and my imagination for that), a few things that I wish they'd done differently, and some stuff that I am genuinely curious about where they're going to end up with it. But for the most part, I understand exactly why they made each change from the source material and it was incredibly clever. I also appreciate that they're doing a lot of "alternative scenes" to show us the parts of the story that weren't directly told by the books (for example, the Winternight Trolloc attack in the village), both because RJ/Sanderson have already told that tale and it's (theoretically) easier to disappoint fewer people who have a preconceived image in their heads. I'm having an absolute blast with the show, because my little writer brain is going "Perrin's...wtf...why... Aha!! That gets us to where we need to be, for what happened with our wolfy boy, in one episode, yes I see! Well done!" They're pulling in new people, adapting from page to visual media, and yet staying true to the spirit, world, and characters of Robert Jordan. You're not going to get a direct adaptation, because that's not possible with something like WoT. If you want *exact*, you'll be disappointed. If you want *feels just like*, then you will enjoy it. (I didn't have any issues but you may want to check out threads about best viewing parameters; some people had issues with the picture quality until they made adjustments.)


ALL_CAPS_VOICE

> If you want feels just like, then you will enjoy it. This is what I want but it really doesn’t sound like it does. At least not to me. I understand that 14 door stopper novels will evoke different feelings in different people.


mantolwen

I think its pretty good. There's some places which could have been written better but overall I liked it and enjoyed it.


GayBlayde

It was good. Episode one and episode eight are by far the weakest because they don’t make any damn sense. But it’s good.


WoundedSacrifice

While episode 1 had some issues, I thought it mostly made sense.


GayBlayde

It was just trying to introduce A LOT.


WoundedSacrifice

That’s more of a pacing issue (which was episode 1’s biggest issue) than an issue about it not making sense. I really wish that episode 1 was 90 minutes long.


Allonsy_Mari

Speaking as someone who started the show as a non reader: i wouldn’t say episode 1 didn’t make sense, I thought it was a good way to introduce non readers to the series and how their world works. It had a bit of pacing issues, but honestly which pilot hasn’t?


MyrddinHS

gee wonder what those two episodes have in common. hint: the weakest writer.


Shepher27

The biggest thing they have in common is they were both 30 minutes too short


GayBlayde

To be fair, the series premiere and a season finale are super hard episodes to write.


KingNewbs

I'm exactly the person you're looking for. The show was very good, and I did introduce my spouse, who did not read the books, to it. She liked it a lot. Honestly I was surprised she made it through the first couple episodes (she's not really a genre fan). But we did the whole season and she enjoyed the finale. And as someone who has read the books several times, the thing I liked most was how they kept showing me familiar things in new ways. Even when you know the story, this series is still surprising without straying too far from what is (to me) the spirit of the books.


BoorlooBro

I’ve read the books, and while the scale of the changes does confuse me (as in, changes where it’s just not necessary, and often resulting in less impactful plots), I always expected changes. And I hoped for changes that would deliver a tighter and better paced story. My problem with the show is on the quality side more than the story side. The writing is very uneven (to put it mildly), the sets, CGI, lighting, cinematography etc are not on par with prestige TV. Some of the problems are very ground-level stuff, like you shouldn’t blast your actors with reflectors if they’re in a dimly lit room. I don’t think it’s quite fair to say it looks like a CW show (which you’ll hear often), but I do think the production quality is significantly below what you get with the Witcher for example. And it would be cruel to make any comparison to GOT. If you take a look at the crew handling the different aspects of the production, you’ll find a lot of unevenness. You definitely can pick the episodes where the cinematographer was someone whose sole experience is with network shows and small budget movies (ie no prestige TV work). I think it does come down to the showrunner not having previous experience with productions of this scale, which ultimately shows through across the board. Bottom line: if you’re not going to get hung up on changes, and if you recalibrate your expectations to take into account that this is more a mid-tier show than a flagship prestige production for a major streaming service, you’ll enjoy it. And I envy you!


alice_heart

I’m a book reader and lover and a show lover as well. I also work in film and television and have my degree in production so there’s a lot of changes that automatically make sense to me. Personally I think the tv show does a fine job of introducing the world of WoT to audiences. There’s so much that goes into adapting a series for television, especially one as dense as WoT. Ultimately you cannot fit everything. You have to make choices about storylines changing or being moved around. And with streaming the way it is you have only a certain amount of time to do so. Did I miss parts of the book? Yeah, Thom taking the boys on the boat and teaching them the lore of their world was one of my favorite parts of the book! Definitely would have wasted time in the show. Loved the Whitebridge and Caemlyn parts of the book. Completely understand why they just moved most of it to the White Tower. LOVED Perrin’s storyline with the wolves. Understand they didn’t have enough time to flesh it out and therefore I am even more excited to hopefully get it next season. People need to understand that when you’re making a show with millions of dollars on the line that will without a doubt be compared to other giants like GoT, you’re not only trying to draw in newcomers and old readers alike, you’re trying to solidify your place in an over saturated streaming market AND you’re trying to make your executives at Amazon happy enough to give you more money and time for later seasons. It’s unfortunate but that’s how it works. WoT can be dense and lore heavy and the first book reads a LOT like LotR. You need to give people multiple characters to root for and love. Did they need to change that one moment in the end with the girls? Maybe not. But the entire first season has been about setting up the side characters so Rand can go and ultimately become the Dragon Reborn and our hero in later seasons. His story progresses more slowly and will probably be more impactful for it. Giving the girls a moment like that did not “ruin” the show i’m sorry it just didn’t. I think a lot of people are also forgetting how convoluted and confusing and plain weird the first books ending is. It’s not exactly great lmao. Overall I had so much fun with the show. The casting was great! The effects were really good for a first season and I LOVED finding little clues as a book reader to the overall story. I was so happy they included things like ancient ruins from the age of legends in the background! My biggest complaint is that I wish it was longer than 8 episodes but that’s absolutely an issue with the production companies and streaming giants, not WoT individually. I think it’s a great taste of a wonderful fantasy world that is going to grow into something amazing as time goes on. Sometimes first seasons are so strong it’s hard to live up to them later. Sometimes it’s about finding the groove and improving as you go. I think the show and the story will do just fine and will get better and better as seasons go on and we understand why certain changes were made. No one hates a fantasy adaptation more than its biggest fans and that’s true in almost all fantasy fandoms i’ve been a part of.


Charvan

Read the books as they were published. I don't remember a lot of the details. Just the main points. I have found the show to be enjoyable.


GlassJustice

The pacing is terrible and the writing utterly butchered just about every character.


GregariousLaconian

It’s a solid watch. The cast are all good. The effects/set design/costuming are decent. The pacing is pretty good. As far as the adaptation aspect: There are changes for sure, but they translated the characters largely intact. The finale has problems. It’s not directly because they made changes from the book. BUT, it does make those issues more obvious/ acute because it’s not clear why some of those decisions were made. That being said, overall, I am satisfied with it, and would recommend it to other people.


diffyqgirl

My non reader family thought it was generally good but rough around the edges, but that the finale didn't make a lot of sense. However we enjoyed watching it together anyways, they would never read the book so it's fun to be able to share a version of the story with them.


cerevant

Just watch it. If you aren’t all hung up on details you’ll like it just fine.


Lead-Forsaken

I'm not hung up on the changes. In fact, I liked one element of the last episode better than the book version. The dialogue is sometimes a bit forced though, imo. But, the least episode was easily the weakest. I enjoyed the rest though. Perhaps going into the entire thing knowing it will not end with a bang will help. Maybe more the mental image of the world holding its breath.


paul0r3nz0

There are scenes and changes I'm happy with as a fan that I can explain/reason out because I know the books so well. I wonder though if I'm more forgiving because I see how/why they made changes since I've been reading the books for 26+ years. There are some changes that are hard to justify because of what I know from the books and because of the different medium where it's show don't tell. I like it because it's different and new but it still feels like home.


SwordofGlass

You want a review from book readers, but want them to ignore the books?


gmredditt

Well, he's asking about the show, not the books


Goosewithsneakers

I’ve read the first two books, I’ll be honest I don’t remember any details hahaha. Okay so the show’s quality isn’t great. Idk why it’s so well received. It’s mad corny, super cringe! Has its cool parts tho


Violet351

I mostly liked it except for the final scene which seemed stupid. If they were going to attack it should have been either a town of or a ship not an almost empty beach with a cliff that’s going to cause that wave to rebound and smash their ships without some serious work with the power


pepperdawgy

It was good. A little confusing, but good. Not everything is explained as neatly in the books. The ending is a little underwhelming. But I liked the beginning and loved some scenes in the middle. I squealed out loud in joy at some parts. Separate from that, I’d say it was disappointing because I’ve read the books and see a lot of wasted potential. Instead of 7-8 really strong characters we see maybe..2 or 3? I can’t help but be hurt, especially as I feel my fav character of all time was given a short stick. So when I look at it separately? It’s good. Fine. But it’s so damn hard not to compare it to one of the best constructed stories of our time. Edit: As a side note, I’ve been trying to get my friend to read the series for YEARS. We watched the show together and she loved it and was so hyped that she wants to start reading now. Maybe that will help your decision!


Sharp_Iodine

All I know is that I watched with my boyfriend who has never read any fantasy book in his life. He liked the series till episode 6, after that he got seriously confused and after episode 8 I told him how the story ended in the books and he said, "Why the hell didn't they do that? It sounds more cohesive than whatever I just saw." He will watch season 2 because he did like most of the episodes but even he was underwhelmed and confused by episodes 7 and 8. Also he agreed that the Seanchan looked like cheap Conan the Barbarian extras.


Hasselhoff1

I read the books, I love them, but I’m capable of giving you an honest opinion I think, that’s my opinion lol. The show was good, I think it could have been better if they relied on the books a little more. It had a good beginning and a good middle. The finale was weak. The Showrunners are trying so hard to give everyone time, that they blew the finale. Sometimes every character doesn’t appear in an episode. We all get that, they need to understand it. Looking back the finale was average, and arguably, you can say each character is where they need to be. My opinion is that we could have done cooler with Rand, and still set up the story going forward, and everyone would have loved it. It is very possible that covid, Matt leaving, and a tight budget all came together and that’s why the end of the season was rough. I’m giving them the benefit of the doubt. I’ll be watching next season, and I’m hoping that everything is settled, and that we have an awesome show


BGOG83

I’ve read the books twice. I don’t get hung up on minor details though, I just read them for the good story and the way the words and details give my imagination room to wander. The show is good, not great but it is what it probably should be based on how extensive it would be to adapt these books to film. My wife likes the show and she definitely has not read the books. She doesn’t want spoilers and only wants answer to the questions she’s asked me. I think things will speed up drastically in season 2.


TheNerdChaplain

I think the show does some things well, and a few things poorly. There were two major issues during production - the pandemic hitting and one of the main actors dropped out during the hiatus, but I don't think those really caused as many issues as some people claim. I think the major issue was cutting the episode count from ten down to eight episodes. The show could have really used that extra time to let the characters grow and bond more, and establish more of the backstory. The first episode feels very rushed, but they tend to get better as they go. Episode 4 was a real highlight, and there were fantastic scenes in every episode. As Brandon Sanderson has said, this works better if you consider it a different turning of the Wheel. The season is *not* simply an adaptation of The Eye of the World, it is the first part of an adaptation of the series overall. Thus you'll see some things get foregrounded that didn't really get established until a few books later; some minor background characters from the books get a larger role (to a great effect, I might add), and there is much you won't see from the first book at all. I would get more specific about criticisms, but I don't want to spoil anything for you. I would encourage you to go into it with moderate expectations and an open mind, and I think you'll enjoy it much more that way. Don't forget to check out the bonus content on the show page and the Wheel of Time Origins animated shorts; they provide some great backstory and lore.


Lulu-3333

I don’t think it really matters if you’re a “super fan” or not, I think it depends on if you can emotionally separate the two and enjoy independently of each other. If you can do that, you’ll probably enjoy the show. If you can’t then definitely not. It’s a fun show (not groundbreaking television) but definitely it’s own thing from the books Edited to add that I’ve read the books a good handful of times and enjoy the show


michaeljoemcc

I finished the book series last year and loved it. I also think the show was awesome. It was great seeing my favorite characters and settings come to life. Channeling looked super cool. The battles were intense. Of course it wasn’t a 100% word-for-word adaption. The super nerds on Reddit suck. Give the show a shot.


derpy-dumbass

I'm not the person you're asking for, but I would imagine someone who was only vaguely familiar with the source material who enjoys the familiar names but doesn't actually remember how the books go is exactly the target audience.


howlingbeast666

Youtube channel "Bianca and Books" makes reviews but I don't know if you will like them. She starts by liking the show quite a bit and her first reviews are positive. However by episode 5, she really deflates and spends more time pointing out the flaws in the show, though to be fair its because there are way more flaws than good points. Its a good reviewer to watch to see how a hopeful and optimist reader becomes critical, and by the end of the season she dislikes the show. Tone-wise, she is probably one of the most neutral reviewers on youtube since she started by liking the show and thus she was not a "fanatic" as you called us.


Matthew_VZ

It’s great! I mean, it’s not spot on and the first season ends a lil ruff but overall it’s really good. The cast is fantastic. It looks good. It FEELS like the books. It feels like living in that world like the Harry Potter movies feel like living in that world even when they butchered the books. Well worthwhile. Personally can’t wait for season 2.


Gummy-Worm-Guy

Yeah that kind of describes me. I liked the show


Bansheesdie

Read the books once, finished Eye of the World around 2007. The insistence that the Dragon Reborn could be a women was a precursor of how poorly done the rest of the show would be (how little the book would matter). Also apparently Rafe just wants to speed through Books 1-3? God, it's like Game of Thrones but instead of starting strongly and only faltering when the source material ran out -- they just decided lets start poorly when we have the best fantasy story ever written.


GrumpyBearBank

EOTW is one of the weakest books in the series. It’s a lotr clone. Moiraine not knowing the gender of the Dragon Reborn is just not a big deal. I don’t get why people care.


Bansheesdie

The Dragon Reborn being male is probably the most important single plot point in the entire series. I do not understand how this could be overstated.


GrumpyBearBank

And the Dragon Reborn was male.


ReasonablyDone

This is not the right place for such a request imo.