T O P

Far Right conservative Netanyahu supporter, anti vaccination mandate Marty Morantz beats pro healthcare physician liberal Doug Eyolfson by ~100 votes, while NDP takes 7000 votes. Leaving constituents with a far right conservative MP. Thanks NDP!

Far Right conservative Netanyahu supporter, anti vaccination mandate Marty Morantz beats pro healthcare physician liberal Doug Eyolfson by ~100 votes, while NDP takes 7000 votes. Leaving constituents with a far right conservative MP. Thanks NDP!

DarkAlman

2300 mail in votes left to count in Charleswood+Tuxedo With a margin of 100 votes it's still too close to call.


Efficient_Falcon7584

Op was this your first time voting? you seem a little immature or unclear how it works. and you called the incumbent a far right winger over and over. Is he really that extreme? We've had him since 2019 and it was close before that. I am from this riding and voted for Dr. Doug. If he doesn't win I will know it is because not enough voted for him. I do not blame the NDP, PPC or Green voters. I question the PPC votes because well crazies and the Green because Paul has destroyed them.


h0twired

I would rather have this happen than be stuck with a 2 party electoral system like they have in the US. I get it. It sucks. But the alternative is FAR worse.


mhyquel

Just wait. Each election cycle it will get worse.


h0twired

Actually I found this one to be much better than the past. The lunatic fringe all voted purple and got a total of 0 seats. The CPC had to aim more socially progressive (although they have a LONG way to go) and the Liberals were shown that they just cant rely on being the ABC vote. I am also happy that the NDP are the party most likely to hold the balance of power for the Liberals and will keep them more honest and focused on people.


hoohooh

The U of W students who are getting to vote for the first time on this sub can be so insufferable. You know what makes democracy great? Being able to vote for who you believe will represent you best. Don't get angry with/try to bully people into voting for a party they don't jive with. That's just being a dick.


RonnieThorvaldson

They should look on the bright side. when they finally move out of their parents house in what, 10, 15 years... that's a lot of time planning where they'd like to live, presumably a red or orange safe seat riding.


theregalbeagle

Then blame the parties that have formed government for the last 50 years. It sure as shit wasn't the NDP. Don't blame voters for wanting to break out of an abusive system that favors established and entrenched parties.


markjenkinswpg

The Canadian Press isn't showing Morantz as a projected winner there (check mark), just as an incumbent (\*). The last poll to be counted may very well be the mail-in votes, which could be substantial in number. Consider this one too close to call until that's counted.


Efficient_Falcon7584

it is the mail ins 3500 or so. Plus if it stays this close i would assume a recount will be warranted.


TheGreatStories

Liberals vs NDP isn't the vote split that you're suggesting it to be.


adunedarkguard

The NDP/Liberal split is the most consistent pool of shared voters we have in Canada. If you track the last 6 elections, and compare each party's average to the results, you see that if the Liberals are up x%, the NDP is down nearly the exact same amount. 2015 is the only exception, where the Liberals were way up, at the expense of the BQ, Conservatives and NDP.


syshenasty

NDP's fault for existing? 7000 people thought the NDP was the best party to lead.


RealOwenBenjamin

Well now they get a far right conservative instead of a liberal! Hope it was worth supporting the unviable party that had no chance of winningz


syshenasty

How the hell are you supposed to know who everyone else is voting for? If there's an issue with the way the system is set up, that's hardly the voters fault.


fujimi

http://www.strategicvoting.ca/ I do not personally use this site, just saying it exists.


syshenasty

JFC, you think every NDP voter should use a website I've never heard of and of which we have no evidence is a) accurate or b) unbiased? I'll let my grandma, who has never touched a computer in her life, know that she did it wrong. Blame the fuckos who voted conservative for the PC win, not the people who DIDN'T vote for them. The system is flawed and so is your logic.


syshenasty

Sorry for the strong words, didn't realize you weren't OP!


I__Like_Stories

If everyone voted NDP who voted liberal they would have won


KTurner333

I don't think they've called it yet though - I mean it might shake out like that, but no one knows for sure yet. ETA. And you could just as easily blame the Greens, or thank the PPC for keeping the margin small. It's a flaw with the system not the people. Strategic voting can work, but no one should feel bullied into voting against their conscience.


RealOwenBenjamin

PPC had under 1000 as well as green while NDP had 7000. And yes people should be shamed for not strategic voting , same with Bernie voters who refused to vote Clinton


KTurner333

I don't think that's a fair comparison since they weren't on the same ballot.


greendale_humanbeing

🤦‍♂️. Are you also going to sincerely thank the PPC voters for making it so close? Afterall, if the PPC didn't exist, those 1000 votes would have gone to the CPC.


RealOwenBenjamin

Of course, that’s exactly why the liberals like the PPC! And just like why the cons like the NDP


SqueakyCheeks74

Okay buddy. I am waiting for my sincere thanks for voting PPC. I heard the exact same argument from my conservative friends to not split votes. I now understand the struggles the NDP have with making progress with this constant strategic voting nonsense.


RealOwenBenjamin

Thank you for voting PPC , sincerely , the liberals


RealOwenBenjamin

I sure hope not. I don’t get how an NDP could prefer a far right conservative over a liberal doctor. The cons love the NDP voters


h0twired

NDP voters vote NDP because they recognize the value in a multi-party country. I don't think you realize the value in having the NDP play spoiler in this situation. It forces the Liberals to actually have a solid platform that goes beyond "not being the Conservatives". It's a 3-4 horse race in most ridings and most people prefer it that way. Even if it means losing a couple to the Cons.


RealOwenBenjamin

Actually it just allows the cons to be more extreme and far right since they know a large chunk of left votes will be wasted


h0twired

No. The further right the CONS go, the more they alienate their centrist base. Did you not notice how they tried to distance themselves from the PPC? The last think the CPC wanted to do was spend too much public effort courting the lunatic fringe. Even Erin O'Toole was touted as being more progressive than Scheer. The CPC didn't win the popular vote by being more extreme right. They did so by appealing to the moderates in the center. Trudeau believed that he owned all of the left votes and that it would bring him a majority. He was lazy in his campaign and looked more and more desperate as the election loomed nearer. So here we are. Perhaps this time he will actually make electoral reforms and work with the NDP and others to bring in proportional representation. Even if it means losing seats.


Danemoth

Sounds like NDP voters believed in, and voted for, the MP they believed would best represent their interests. That's voters exercising their democratic rights. No individual has the right to influence another person's vote. Becoming angry and vitriolic and trying to sway people to vote in a way they don't necessarily agree with isn't productive. Blame FPTP, not the voter. Push for election reform and hold the Liberals accountable for their failure to deliver on that promise in their first term. You're directing your anger at the wrong people, much like the protesters who gather outside hospitals and schools. Some people prefer and want to support the NDP, for a host of reasons. You have people like Blakie and Gazan who fight tooth and nail to protect the interests of the working class Canadian, such as a livable minimum wage (Note: Both Blakie and Gazan were at the forefront of the UBI bill that unfortunately didn't get far) and climate change. That resonates with some voters enough that voting for their preferred candidate is more enticing than voting strategically. It's clear which party cares about working Canadians. It's a shame they can't seem to get more than a couple dozen seats. :( Edit: According to OP, this post contains ad hominem and misinformation. Hmm.... M'thinks this person is just a troll.


RealOwenBenjamin

No individual has the right to influence another persons vote? That has to be the most incorrect and incoherent thing I have read so far in this thread. Politics is by definition an exercise in influence. I don’t care if they support NDP or not because by voting for a long shot third party it ended up conservative instead.


Danemoth

> No individual has the right to influence another persons vote? That has to be the most incorrect and incoherent thing I have read so far in this thread. [Truly? *yawn*](https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/E-2.01/page-37.html?txthl=influences+influence+unduly+undue). > I don’t care if they support NDP or not Okay... but then you said: > because by voting for a long shot third party it ended up conservative instead. So which is it? :/


RealOwenBenjamin

You are the first person who is being truly idiotic and bad faith. Good job ignoring the first sentence about in a polling station. Go lie and spread disinformation elsewhere.


Danemoth

> You are the first person who is being truly idiotic and bad faith. Ad hominem, the last refuge of a person who has failed to resolve their own cognitive dissonance when faced with facts. Either that, or you're a troll. Or an angry, edgy "teenager" lashing out at the world. Have a good day.


RealOwenBenjamin

But you blatantly lied and even debunked yourself in your link LOL. You were 100% wrong on that point lmfao. What argument of yours is there to debunk? You posted something that is completely false and wrong, and then linked something pretending it backed up what you said while purposely ignoring the context. Care to respond? Or will you admit you were incorrect on that point? Also calling someone bad faith isn’t an ad hominem it is pointing out you are arguing in bad faith by purposely posting disinfo and links that’s don’t back up what you post


Danemoth

I have no interest in addressing any of these questions because you've failed to address a single point I or anyone else has made without 1) resorting to ad hominem, 2) acting like "no one else gets it", and 3) throwing false accusations at people because of the way they voted. Once you start deciding you want to have a grown up discussion with people, maybe. But not this thread, and not any longer. You had your chance, but instead you've started foaming at the mouth like a 4chan troll who thinks he's got an entire forum in a "GOTCHA" moment. Get off social media, mature a little, then come back when you're willing to talk like an adult instead of being defensive and toxic when trying to make your point. So, like i said. Have a good day. Or don't. The wellbeing of a misinformed edgelord is of little consequence to me. Continue to play the victim. It doesn't seem like anyone is taking your cries seriously.


RealOwenBenjamin

I’m not misinformed at all I am very well read, but that’s an adhom from you again. And I don’t use 4chan because I’m not a racist edge lord. Again, I am a left wing progressive and pro science individual. I despise conservatism and right wing ideology. And no, no one explained how voting for the NDP in this riding was the right thing to do. No one explained why it wouldn’t have been better to suck it up and vote for Dr Doug. Are you NDP?


RealOwenBenjamin

This comment is disinformation as the poster implies falsely that “ no one has the right to influence another persons vote” which is blatantly and laughably false. The poster then proceeded to post a link about influencing votes within a polling station in a bad faith attempt to save face from their original laughably incorrect post.


SilverTimes

It's tragic that NDP voters didn't check with you before casting their ballots. I was hoping the vote bullying would end yesterday but nooooooo. GTFO


RealOwenBenjamin

Tragic for them you mean. They are the ones who get to have a far right con MP instead of a pro healthcare physician liberal.


tacowednesday213

Dude just shut the fuck up, voting already happened. I don’t know what point you’re trying to make other than “bah you guys are fucking assholes for voting ndp!”


SilverTimes

What a sense of entitlement you have. Just like Wonder Boy.


tmlrule

Yes, it is truly tragic that in a democracy they chose to vote for the candidate that best expressed their views. The absolute nerve!


RealOwenBenjamin

Please learn about strategic voting. In the end then voting their “conscious” leads to a worst outcome for all. Selfish


tmlrule

> Please learn about strategic voting. In the end then voting their “conscious” leads to a worst outcome for all. Selfish Actually I think it's only the PPC voters that cast their ballot while unconscious.


I__Like_Stories

> In the end then voting their “conscious” leads to a worst outcome for all. Selfish Are you brain dead? why didnt you vote for the NDP then? seems like you made the selfish choice of voting liberal


RealOwenBenjamin

Why would I vote for a party that has no chance of winning and only would result in the cons winning?


I__Like_Stories

The only have no chance of winning because you dont vote for them


rantingathome

Here's a flipping idea, we've not only heard of strategically voting, we've done it multiple times. I've voted for the Liberals twice to stop the Conservatives, and to be honest I'm frickin' sick of it. So here's the deal, after not doing electoral reform and then telling the CRTC to side with Bell/Telus/Rogers over internet wholesale rates, I've had enough with the Liberals saying, "F\*\*\* you, you'll vote for us anyway!" No, I'm not f\*\*\*ing voting for them anyway. And here's the worst damn thing about your post; whether that particular riding goes Conservative or Liberal eventually won't change the overall outcome of the election anyway, so you're pissing off a huge number of other progressive voters for no frickin' reason.


RealOwenBenjamin

Thanks for the honesty. This is more of what I expected to see. You know the reality but also admit that you are done voting for liberals to avoid the cons. So thanks for being honest in your views


I__Like_Stories

Fuck off OP, maybe vote NDP then?


SophistXIII

top tier shitpost, i'll give OP that much...


RonnieThorvaldson

Shouldn't you be in school today?


jolecore204

That's a sucky result but your blame in misplaced, IMO. Instead of blaming the NDP (what do you propose, a two-party system?), the blame should be placed on the 16,032 constituents who used their voice to declare Morantz the person they want representing them. EDIT: ...and it's not even the result yet, OP chill TF out!!


Smasher225

It’s not a result yet the vote hasn’t moved and they haven’t done the mail in. I have very personal interest in this riding and know it’s not official


h0twired

Or better yet. Blame the Liberal party for not having a strong enough campaign to sway the centrist CPC voters over to the Liberals.


RealOwenBenjamin

It’s NDP voters fault. They should have sucked it up and voted for the better of the two candidates who had a chance. Now they are left with a conservative:


jolecore204

Can't tell if you're a troll or just an idiot. Either way, you've already received more of my attention than your deserve. out.


I__Like_Stories

>troll or just an idiot. They can be both!


RealOwenBenjamin

Neither a troll nor an idiot. I have yet to see my point debunked. Marty Moron sends his best regards to the NDP voters.


h0twired

If the Liberals had a stronger platform that attracted more centrist voters. This wouldn't be an issue.


generically

are you just as pissed at the liberal voters in say Kenora and many other ridings where they didn't finish 2nd that if they voted NDP would have elected progressives?


RealOwenBenjamin

The Kenora vote wasn’t even close with a winner above by multiple thousands of votes not a hundred


unique3

So only NDP should have to switch their vote, we see your bias.


RealOwenBenjamin

Nope. If it was close between NDP and con I would totally agree that voting liberal would be wrong and to vote NDP instead. Stop ignoring the context


unique3

You said it wasn’t close it shouldn’t matter. if all the liberals voted in Kenora for NDP the conservatives wouldn’t have won. This is exactly your argument yet you already dismissed it.


Phototropically

Everyone should just roll over and let the Liberals do their thing, that's very cool and very democratic.


RealOwenBenjamin

Better then conservative.


Rivazza

*than


tacowednesday213

:D


I__Like_Stories

they're 2 sides of the same fucking coin lmao.


JorroHass

? Not sure what you are getting at? Are you blaming NDP for conservative assholes?


theregalbeagle

They are lashing out because the OP wanted "strategic" ABC voting. My response to OP is that if they wanted a Liberal candidate so badly they should have been volunteering, and being upset with the Liberals for their electoral performance. NDP voters don't owe the Liberal voters shit.


mhyquel

> NDP voters don't owe the Liberal voters shit. Oh yes we do. We have a whole pile of shit that they are owed.


RealOwenBenjamin

And I guess Bernie voters didn’t owe Clinton a vote either… which led to Trump, but hey, atleast they voted their conscious, who cares about the horrible results that followed


SilverTimes

Oh bullshit. Most of them got in line and voted for Clinton once Bernie was knocked out of the primaries.


MassiveDamages

>And I guess Bernie voters didn’t owe Clinton a vote either… which led to Trump, but hey, atleast they voted their conscious, who cares about the horrible results that followed So first of all we aren't America and we have more than two parties to vote for. Apples and oranges. Following that thought why are you comparing the two? One CPC candidate getting in isn't the end of the world and you're acting like it is. Yes it's sad that Doug might have lost, which he hasn't yet. I don't know a way to tell you that Canada isn't America that could placate you.


RealOwenBenjamin

Yes because they should have voted for the liberal candidate who was viable to actually win as seen above.. but they are the ones who get to live with a far right MP now instead! Seems like they don’t know their own best interests.


MSevenzer

This is one of the most terrible and dangerous takes on our electoral system I've read in a while. Give your head a shake.


RealOwenBenjamin

How? Go ahead and debunk it. Everything I posted is a FACT. The cons win now , not the NDP , not the liberal.


MSevenzer

OK and? The riding voted in the CPC candidate. Like I'm a strong NDP supporter. I don't see very much of a difference between CPC and Liberal this election aside from the CPC having a bit weirder of a fringe base. I like NDP policies, I support the NDP platform so I vote NDP. I don't want a Liberal government or a Conservative government


RealOwenBenjamin

So you are fine with a far right conservative over a pro healthcare liberal physician. No wonder the NDP is still unpopular


MSevenzer

If that's what the riding went then that's what the riding went so yeah. That's how the system works... If you want it changed start lobbying or voting for a party that supports electoral reform. But oh wait, the NDP were the only ones seriously talking about it in their platform. Don't like FPTP either, but it is what it is.


I__Like_Stories

Maybe support a party that takes electoral reform seriously then instead of the liberals lol


dkutty

How can you possibly know what other peoples best interests are? Everyone can vote for who ever they want and who THEY think will best represent them


LegalPlatypus

The Liberal leader promised electoral reform years ago (when Eyolfson was elected) and never delivered because he kept winning under FPTP. If he had kept his promise, the vote split would have been less of an issue, so forgive me if I don’t have any sympathy when it’s a problem of the Liberals’ own creation.


hoohooh

Bingo. I used to be a strategic voter (last time was 2015), but as soon as Trudeau dropped his reform promise...fuck THAT. I'll cast my vote for who I want. I'm not going to be bullied into voting for a party that is "the least bad option with a chance". They dropped electoral reform because this hore shit helps them get into office and hold onto power. On principle alone I won't vote for this current Liberal government (and haven't the last two elections). If you look at the results, I think many, many people feel the same.


MSevenzer

Same situation here. Went Trudeau with promise of electoral reform so now my preferred party can get more seats. But then he realized it works really well to rally people, and as OP shows creates some hostility and blame, "it's YOUR fault!" So after 2015 I was just screw it. I'm voting for the platform I personally want.


EugeneMachines

My interpretation of them dropping electoral reform is not because they kept winning under FPTP. As far as I know, only the Conservatives favour FPTP. It's that they couldn't agree on which new system to use. The Liberals favoured ranked ballots, but most other reformers including the NDP favoured proportional representation. Because they couldn't agree it was dead in the water. I think this interpretation is consistent with Trudeau's [comments](https://chatnewstoday.ca/2021/09/18/trudeau-says-he-remains-open-to-electoral-reform-if-liberals-re-elected/) last week: >“I have always been a fan of ranked ballots where people get to choose first choice, second choice, third choice... I think it forces parties to come together and make a pitch to be the second choice of other voters and therefore they are less divisive... If ever there is more of a consensus, it could be interesting to follow up on and I’d be open to that, because I’ve never flinched in my desire for ranked ballots." I agree the problem was Trudeau's creation because he **never** should have said he was getting rid of FPTP so strongly--everybody else heard, "You're getting proportional representation!" when he clearly meant, "Let's do ranked ballots."


LegalPlatypus

If you’re a Con supporter, your second choice is going to be Liberal because you’re likely not voting NDP. If you’re an NDP supporter, your second choice is likely going to be Liberal because you’re likely not supporting Conservative. Yes there will be outliers but in general, ranked ballots primarily favour the centrist party The promise was electoral reform. Trudeau tried to claim ranked ballots was electoral reform, but it’s not because it clearly benefits the Liberals. That’s why other parties pushed for PR, which would have been detrimental to the Libs (even in this election, they have government despite the Cons winning the popular vote). So Trudeau used that as an excuse to abandon the promise


EugeneMachines

I don't accept your premise that if a different electoral system, like ranked ballot, benefits the Liberals it shouldn't be considered electoral reform. It's still a different system that makes every vote 'count' by transferring it and ensures that every elected candidate has (to some extent) the support of the majority. Self-interest doesn't mean it's not reform. All the parties want the system that would benefit their party the most; that's why the NDP, Greents, etc. favour PR.


G-42

16,000 people vote for a right wing asshole and you blame 7000 people who didn't.


RealOwenBenjamin

Just 7000 who enabled the far right asshole to win


G-42

You have a legitimate issue that prevents you from seeing the world and concepts the way the human brain is capable of. You need to get off social media, and to a therapist. There's more to existence than what you're comprehending. And you're not hiding it from anyone.


RealOwenBenjamin

Lots of adhoms in this thread but zero explanations or refutations. You can’t refute it because it’s all facts. The result is clear. NDP vote split allowed for the con to win.


MassiveDamages

>The result is clear. NDP vote split allowed for the con to win. Again he hasn't won yet but let's go on the assumption that he did. What is your end game here? That our system is working as intended and that multiple parties mean that some of them are going to steal votes from the other? No shit? You keep saying this guy is a far right extremist will presenting your own extremist behavior. People often vote against their own interests, look at most of Alberta. If you don't like that this happens having a temper tantrum in the Winnipeg subreddit is really not going to change diddly. This is one riding. That's it. It's not all of Canada, it's not a conservative government it's a liberal minority. Thank goodness it isn't a conservative minority because I think you might lose your mind if that happened. Arguing with and insulting people here just makes you look like an ass. A selfish one too because somehow you think your values are more important than those of everyone else who voted. Here's some free life advice, learn how to take an L gracefully. Or move to America where you can surround yourself with an echo chamber of us vs them politics and see if it's really preferable to what we have here.


RealOwenBenjamin

My point is to hopefully reach those NDP who claim to be progressive and point out the end result of voting a third party that had no chance. Hopefully after more years of a conservative they will regret their choice. Who knows how many will die from anti vaccination mandates in the mean time.


MassiveDamages

>My point is to hopefully reach those NDP who claim to be progressive and point out the end result of voting a third party that had no chance. Hopefully after more years of a conservative they will regret their choice. Who knows how many will die from anti vaccination mandates in the mean time. There are no anti-vaccine mandates. Explain what you mean there, because that's not a real thing. I voted for NDP and will continue to vote for NDP as long as they align with my beliefs. This mindset of hive mind voting is a perfect example of black and white thinking which leads to more us versus them rhetoric. My candidate managed to get in but even if he didn't that's fine. The people that showed up and voted deserve to have their opinions heard. I minority government means that Trudeau didn't have the slam dunk that he thought he did and encourages him to do better to try and win more voters. The conservatives are having a bit of a crisis right now but the election shows that they need to focus up if they want to win. Well there isn't universal support for the NDP it is still there and growing every day. Next election they may have a legitimate shot at forming a government if they play their cards right. The PPC was soundly defeated which says that people aren't fully buying into their... ideas. You're thinking so one-dimensionally about this. It's not just about now but the future as well. The fact that people voted for the NDP does not mean that they're not progressive, if anything it means that they're willing to stand up for those beliefs in the face of people like you who will yell at them for not being more strategic. That was part of my thinking. The rest of your doom and gloom seems to be based less and less in reality but hey man go off if you voted. Talking down to people doesn't really seem to be working for the conservatives though so that might be something to keep in mind. If you care about other people's opinions. Jury's still out there. Edit: What's really frustrating is when people do this they NEVER stand up to valid criticism. Ignore any valid points and repeat that nobody "gets it" like you do. What's up with these anti-vaccine mandates? You wanted a discussion I assumed. Guess not.


Danemoth

> You wanted a discussion I assumed. Guess not. Nah, every post longer than a single paragraph gets ignored or picked apart and taken out of context. If this individual had a point, it was lost when they doubled down on the insults and acting like they're somehow more "enlightened to the truth" than everyone else. OP isn't here for a discussion. OP was looking for an echo chamber to reaffirm their beliefs. OP did not get what they wanted, and doubled down on their toxic attitude.


ella_in_pink

Maybe if the liberals were actually a progressive party, progressive voters would be more willing to vote for them. Instead they have to use fear of the cons to attract votes, which often works for them and why Trudeau didn’t keep his promise of doing away with FPTP


RealOwenBenjamin

They are progressive.


LegalPlatypus

That’s actually not at all “facts”. The Liberal policies failing to attract more centrist voters and/or more left-wing voters allowed for the con to win The Liberals’ failure to follow through on their promise for electoral reform allowed the con to win The Liberals calling an unnecessary election during a pandemic when the NDP already said they would support their minority government allowed the con to win Justin Trudeau wearing blackface probably swayed some votes There are numerous factors at play and you’re being willfully blind to all of them except for the existence of other parties. I wouldn’t be talking about “ad homs” or lack of explanations when a) numerous people have explained why this is the dumbest election take this year and b) you haven’t said anything beyond “MORANTZ BAD, NDP BAD FOR VOTING NDP”


h0twired

Perhaps you should ask the question. Why did so many on the left not vote for the Liberals to being with?


RealOwenBenjamin

Because they treat it like a popularity contest and not a competition which only has one winner at the end of the day. Right ?


h0twired

Canada is not governed by a solitary winner. For instance, the 18% of the popular vote that the NDP received should make the Liberals stop and consider how they can capture that portion of the population.


Danemoth

> Lots of adhoms in this thread but zero explanations or refutations you've been given PLENTY of explanations. But every time someone gives you more than a single "sound bite" of a response, you resort to a single sentence or two and start insulting someone from atop your high horse. Many people engaged you fairly, and only became hostile when you responded with pig-headedness, projection, and insults. And instead of shutting up, listening, and thinking critically about the information presented to you before you put fingers to keyboard again, you double down and get even MORE edgy with your responses. I'm surprised you haven't started accusing people of being "fascist" by this point you've doubled down so hard.


RealOwenBenjamin

Not true. From the second I posted I was immediately insulted , flamed and accused of being an idiot and a troll for correctly pointing out the facts above.


MassiveDamages

>Not true. From the second I posted I was immediately insulted , flamed and accused of being an idiot and a troll for correctly pointing out the facts above. Your premise was flawed from the get-go. You went in with the insults pretty quickly yourself. Tell me what part of this doesn't strike you as troll like behavior. Isn't it funny how you have to point out that you "correctly" pointed out facts? Can we talk about the number of downvotes you've received. Sub bias right?


RealOwenBenjamin

It does seem the sub is highly, highly NDP biased and anti Trudeau, and that is fine as long as it is recognized.


MassiveDamages

That's not factual at all. But I mean you said it so at the very least you believe it.


RealOwenBenjamin

According to the poll a few days ago on the sub , a plurality is NDP by quite a lot.


unique3

Those damn liberals took 14,000 votes from the NDP


SaffronSamber

How about Thanks Trudeau for breaking his proportional representation promise?


SousVideAndSmoke

Serious question, were the 1500 who voted PPC actually voting for them or was it a form of protest against the main 3?


h0twired

Over 10% of people in that riding still haven't gotten their vaccine. There is your answer.


LegalPlatypus

Probably both. A lot of PPC voters view the cons as too centrist. PPC was created as a response to Bernier’s loss in the 2017 con leadership so there’s also probably an element of protect against the cons (less so the other parties because chances are a PPC voter isn’t going to be voting for the NDP or Libs)


Orcman21

I did my part and voted for Marty. Good to know my vote mattered!


MAGMA_CHUNKZ

Hey dude eat shit. You could just as easily have not voted liberal but you didn’t. So shut the fuck up. It’s not up to other people to cow tow to your views when you want their vote.


CannaHaze

He hasn't beat shit yet.. but maybe by tomorrow he will have.


b3hr

I'm done with strategic fuck it there are two conservative parties now we should be able to vote for who we want not settle on our second choice. Until there's election reform this whole ABC shit will keep us in essentially a two party system what has that done for us two partys that are essentially the same flip flopping every few years undoing anything the other party did that's different from the other.


RealOwenBenjamin

What an extremely disappointing response. Not a single person gave a valid critique or argument. I am not a troll nor stupid for believing that a liberal government is better than a conservative. I am not stupid or a troll for pointing out the fact that vote splitting resulted in a con MP instead of a liberal MP. Those are all facts. Instead of calling me an idiot or a troll, why don’t you attempt to explain any false premise or logic I have used? I think the results speak for themselves. In the end, 7000 NDP will need to deal with a con MP instead of a liberal MP. Not a single person addressed the issue of not voting strategically. Is this a strictly NDP subreddit?


PaleGutCK

Why would someone want to engage in debate with a stupid troll?


RealOwenBenjamin

I am a stupid troll for proffering Liberal over anti vaccine conservative?


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RealOwenBenjamin

Okay, being called a stupid troll by a conservative doesn't bother me. It's a badge of honor. I will always stick up for the party that has the best chance at holding a progressive government. Maybe far right cons are fine with you, but I will never support that. Thanks for calling me stupid for that.


I__Like_Stories

The best chance as determined by who? the people you're admonishing? why didnt you vote NDP then?


RealOwenBenjamin

Why would someone vote NDP when they are polling at half of the liberal or conservative?


I__Like_Stories

Maybe if more people voted for NDP then it wouldnt matter? You're basically saying the difference between NDP and Liberal is greater than Liberal and CON so we need to vote liberal?


unique3

Let them vote NDP if it’s so important. Maybe if the liberals actually got rid of first pass the post like they promised it wouldn’t have been an issue, I know tons of people who usually vote Liberal strategically who said fuck it this time after not trying to get rid of first past the post.


RealOwenBenjamin

I’m sure Marty the Right Wing Moron will keep in mind all the cares of the progressives in his riding.


unique3

The liberals have no one to blame but themselves. People were tired of voting strategically under FPTP, he promised to end that and then said fuck it thinking everyone will keep voting strategically and it backfired. He can look in the mirror and find the source of his problems.


RealOwenBenjamin

So you admit that they didn’t vote strategically? Basically, the NDP voted to spite the liberals. I’m sure Marty Moron will be thankful.


unique3

I see it as voting strategically, it’s sent a strong message that people are tired of being scared into voting for the liberals and that we wanted electoral reform.


RealOwenBenjamin

Good luck getting that with more conservative mps


unique3

If that’s what it takes to wake the fucking liberals up bring on the conservative government. The liberals are not entitled to power yet they act like they are.


RealOwenBenjamin

It doesn’t work like that. Why would liberals listen to a riding where they lost and where so many people apparently hate liberals so much that they would rather risk sending a far right trump supporter to Ottawa then a liberal doctor


unique3

You’re completely missing the point, the liberals don’t listen regardless if people vote for them or not. They were elected in 2015 with a strong majority on the promise of removing first pass the post and they didn’t even try. At the time lots of NDP voters held their nose and vote Liberal so in the next election and NDP would get a fair proportional representation. liberals didn’t hold up their end of the bargain and now people won’t vote for them again regardless what you think they should do.


LegalPlatypus

Do you not understand the concept of swing constituencies?


nizon

People voted NDP because they like the NDP. Not enough people voted liberal. The Conservative is ahead. Get the fuck over it.


RealOwenBenjamin

So you just provided the point that people who are ignorant of strategic voting give. It’s not about who you “like”. It’s about who you like who actually has a chance of winning the seat. You could love the communist party but voting for them is no different than staying home.


theregalbeagle

Strategic voting is for soft skulled, smooth brained people who treat elections like a team sports event. People should vote for the platforms and representatives they want to support, not just to make sure the Conservative boogeyman loses. You want strategic voting? Go give the Liberal party shit for killing electoral reform so that they could continue to seize power. Your own party did themselves in by abandoning their mandate when it was convenient.


nizon

> It’s not about who you “like”. For most people, it exactly about who they like. That will not change.


RealOwenBenjamin

Then they are horrible people. Some people’s lives are actually impacted by all this shit. Maybe it didn’t matter in Brooklyn or Portland if Hilary or Trump won but to millions of people it did. Same here, maybe it doesn’t matter to you if a far righter who is friends with antvaxers and pallister wins or a liberal doctor , but to many in the neighbourhood this isn’t just a popularity contest


nizon

You have some pretty unrealistic expectations of the general public. If you want to sway the vote so bad, get out and volunteer with your favorite candidate next election.


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RealOwenBenjamin

Because PPC voters don’t pretend to care about wanting a progressive government.


LegalPlatypus

Multiple people have, very validly, explained why this is a dumb take. As I said in another comment, elections have numerous factors. The Liberal policies didn’t attract enough left-wing voters. They didn’t attract enough centrist and right-of-centre voters. They called an unnecessary election during COVID when the NDP already said that they would support their government. Justin Trudeau wore blackface multiple times in his life. All of these things play into votes, and to say that the Cons won (even though they haven’t) solely because of a vote split is an objectively unintelligent statement. You’re being willfully blind to all of the many, many comments explaining why you’re wrong. Just constantly yelling “NO ONE IS MAKING VALID ARGUMENTS” doesn’t actually mean that no one is making valid arguments. Grow up


hugs6523

I agree with you. Lots of people here have their heads in the clouds and aren't able to look at this through a ruthlessly rational lens.


RealOwenBenjamin

I’m really surprised and disheartened honestly. I really didn’t expect such an unintelligent response. Very sad to see that here


MassiveDamages

"I can't refute this so have an insult while I crawl away to the next bad faith argument." All I wanted was a legitimate discussion. What anti-vaccine mandate?


RealOwenBenjamin

Are you attempting to deny the link between anti vaccination attitudes and the Conservative party?


MassiveDamages

I'm not attempting anything. Those attitudes are well established. >I’m really surprised and disheartened honestly. (X) Doubt >I really didn’t expect such an unintelligent response. Intelligence insult. Double use of really is just sloppy. >Very sad to see that here ...this reads like something Trump would say.


WpgHandshake

Marty Moron thanks all those who voted for him indirectly through the NDP.


RealOwenBenjamin

That’s right! All my sympathy for the NDP is gone. Cons love NDP voters