1984

And I have never wanted to get up and applaud Big Brother more!

Harry Potter and the Georging of Orwell

We are not in florida, so you can at least look at in in school ;)

cool on HL being banned but talking about JK being banned seems a bit much

This temporary. Any posts about her would eventually lead to talking about the game. Obviously, if JK does anything noteworthy within the immediate future we will amend this.

cool

Thank you tempest

Thank you, the arguments I’ve seen here have been frustrating and endless.

Tempest? More like Big Bonther 1897.

How long until we can discuss the terfs again?

Finally a ban I can get behind

have the mods ever banned something not worth banning? I haven't ever seen that here.

Fair enough. People are buying the game anyways, so it’s kind of tiring to see posts about it even when I agree that people probably shouldn’t buy it

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Why shouldn't people buy the game? I bought it and it's pretty good. Screw JKR, but that isn't going to stop me from playing a game I enjoy.

Finally! How do I get a peepo filter?

Put :pepoHUG: in your flair

Yay! Danke

I feel like there'd be less posts if people just watched Vaush's take on his issues with the boycott last vod. I felt he did a good job conscising all of the arguements.

He made a video months ago about how hogwarts legacy is terrible because there is a goblin rebellion and goblins are somehow anti-Semitic.

All the critical analysis of Harry Potter from the left is such reaching. I saw a video of someone breaking down how terrible it is to glorify attending boarding school because it's bad for kids and families. I'm waiting for the breakdown of how terrible it is to trap people's intelegences in paintings for eternity and how it represents a fascist worldview.

Its because none of it is done in good faith. Shaun is a textbook example. JKR made transphobic tweets, so he rereads HP with the express purpose of finding "problematic" aspects and misses the forest for the trees in doing so. People like Vaush don't even like or know anything about Harry Potter so their "critical analysis" of the content is always surface level at best because they don't know enough about the source material to engage meaningfully.

It's not deep material

Ok. Do you have a critique of the books?

Literally 'Brave New World"

⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⣠⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢰⠤⠤⣄⣀⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢀⣾⣟⠳⢦⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢸⠀⠀⠀⠀⠉⠉⠉⠉⠉⠒⣲⡄ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⣿⣿⣿⡇⡇⡱⠲⢤⣀⠀⠀⠀⢸Brave New World⠀⣠⠴⠊⢹⠁ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠘⢻⠓⠀⠉⣥⣀⣠⠞⠀⠀⠀⢸⠀⠀⠀⠀⢀⡴⠋⠀⠀⠀⢸⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⢀⣀⡾⣄⠀⠀⢳⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢸⢠⡄⢀⡴⠁⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⡞⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⣠⢎⡉⢦⡀⠀⠀⡸⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢀⡼⣣⠧⡼⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢠⠇⠀ ⠀⢀⡔⠁⠀⠙⠢⢭⣢⡚⢣⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢀⣇⠁⢸⠁⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢸⠀⠀ ⠀⡞⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠈⢫⡉⠀⠀⠀⠀⢠⢮⠈⡦⠋⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⣸⠀⠀ ⢀⠇⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠙⢦⡀⣀⡴⠃⠀⡷⡇⢀⡴⠋⠉⠉⠙⠓⠒⠃⠀⠀ ⢸⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠈⠁⠀⠀⡼⠀⣷⠋⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⡞⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⣄⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⡰⠁⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⢧⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠈⠣⣀⠀⠀⡰⠋⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀

Watch out, Harold! There's a word pointed at your head!

Oh shit he can’t hear you because he wears AirPods

This whole saga has just been great and why I consider myself a part of the fabulous, inclusive, successful leftist community. In addition, I've also forbid myself from experiencing joy in real life. No fun. Only Twitter. No forms of entertainment or morsels sustenance from questionable sources. Only pain, misery, and calling people the R slur on the internet.

Inb4 Atomic Heart discussion gets banned

This rather reminds me of a novel by George Orwell

In that novel you would never have an platform like reddit, let alone a platform where you can discuss a ideology that is not part of the main state ideology. Also you wouldn't only get temporarily banned, you would get banned from life and history as such

Thank vaush almighty. I'm so tired of people sitting there keeping the discussion going by crying about how other people are keeping the discussion going.

No Potter in my politics 😡

You’re a political activist Harry. /s haha

🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀

Can't believe the great moral issue of our time is being suppressed. Literally shaking rn.

Hogwarts is just force the vote for trans people.

Thank GOD. Absolutely based mods

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The immediate response was just spoiling the game and labeling anybody who has a problem with it as a transphobe. Damn, you really got JK Rowling with that one. She’s shaking in her boots rn.

Nah if you got a problem with people spoiling the harry potter game's plot or whatever then you're kinda just one of the meltiest snowflakes that have ever been pissed on by a dog to ever exist.

lol why? People are literally going out of their way to ruin others' enjoyment of a product that they were excited about. What good does that do? I remember people running around screaming out book spoilers at the Midnight releases and at the time everyone was in agreement that those people were trash.

JK Rowling has ruined any possibility of enjoying her products for hundreds of thousands, perhaps millions of people. Worse yet - it's not like her products are like...optional to interact with at this point. You WILL interact with them one way shape or form. They are a cultural staple point in the west. So this game? Which is also a shitty game with a shitty plot that revolves around, at least party, the decision to be a fascist or not, which the game frames as kinda the more acceptable option. And the lore this game is built upon says "It literally doesn't matter if you go against the acceptable option because the oppressed people don't win. They lose.". ANY marginalized minority should have a problem with this game and anyone who proports to give two squirts of piss about those sorts should at the very least acknowledge that the game is shit and they're just selfish. SO MANY PEOPLE excited for THIS!?!? Can they not be excited about other things that aren't hot molten shit from the core of it's plot and world? If you find enjoyment in the idea of helping crush a goblin rebellion (goblins are basically people in this world and so their rebellion is literally just a fight for equal rights) you are going to be framed as having done a good thing because "dark wizards" were involved (what even makes a wizard "dark" anyway?) and if you choose to aid the goblin rebellion you maybe get to help them win a fight or two but ultimately it changes nothing about the reality of the conclusion which is that they remain underclassed and oppressed by wizards and that really there's no reason to even fucking fight - THAT'S the message it sends. Either you become a fascist, or you fight under the false idea that you helping them actually will amount to anything changing about the conclusion which can easily be shattered by the "spoiler" of knowing how it turns out by having watched even a single harry potter movie. So call me a wokescold for not really caring if people get a little sad that some part of a shitty oppressors game which in it's narrative supports and justifies all sorts of oppression on people for who/what they are. You don't even need to be trans when you replace the "Goblins" with literally any kind of minority or marginalized group you give two shits about. Because it fits them all. The world is poisoned to the core and this game is rancid horse shit because of the theme of "And that's okay, actually." Are you an oppressed minority? Do you like the idea of choosing to either fight to crush an oppressed minority's attempt at achieving wizard's rights or to choose to help them achieve that end knowing full well with meta knowledge that this will ultimately be for nothing in the end and nothing changes in the world due to it and your choice really honestly doesn't fucking matter at all? Then come play Hogwarts Legacy and see just how LITTLE their setting has actually progressed since a couple hundred years ago! Meet the Goblins who are more or less still as far up shit's creek without a paddle as they are in modern times, and meet the House Elves!...Who are in the same position but don't even have a fucking LOG to cling to and are just drowning in shit because they're literally just SLAVES and the world of this game IS SOMEHOW MORE BIGOTTED THAN AMERICA IS TODAY WHO AT LEAST HAS MADE THE IDEA OF SLAVERY SQUICK TO IT'S PEOPLE FOR THE MOST PART! Yeah, nah. This game was spoiled upon conception. And if the game is no longer worth playing just because you know how the plot's going to go cause someone spoiled it for you then it wasn't worth playing to begin with. Might as well be a fuckin' spin off movie or some shit.

Go touch some fucking grass, jesus christ.

The mods called for boycotts?

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And now all same users want the topic banned? Do you have examples?

> when thr boycott failed. You reactionaries are so obsessed with "winning" or "losing" that you can't imagine people standing up for pricinciples regardless of the outcome. Reactionaries don't have a moral framework, they only care about claiming victory against an outgroup they branded the enemy. Hence why you think you have owned the libs by giving money to a self proclaimed lib.

Lmao it did fail, spectacularly. How do you go from boycotting stick magic game to making it the most anticipated game two years in a row, selling tens of millions of copies and most watched game on steam ever! I’d say that’s a spectacular fuck up. I really want firefly to be boycotted next! I’d love to see a reboot!

Oh boy you'd hate to see Vaush's response to your take that people should do something not caring about outcomes from today's stream.

Insert calender year from 39 years ago here

Heh people say the boycott did nothing but it was surprisingly good at poisoning the online discourse for this game. Every thread and forum I’ve seen related to this game is locking threads and banning criticism or they turn into a bloodbath. Just kind of funny no one seems to be able to talk about this game without heavy moderation or else the terf wars erupt.

Its because terminally online leftists ruin everything for people

Eh I dunno. I don't really agree with Vaush's take on this. I think its a pretty small ask to not buy Harry Potter stuff. And I think a lot of people should probably do a little introspection on why when the smallest sacrifice imaginable was asked of them to show a little support they just needed that specific video game. The fact that its such a small ask makes the ignoring of it feel somehow worse because it means they aren't even willing to do the bare minimum to at least show a little support. Like if you can't give up a video game what the fuck are you going to do if DeSantis troopers start rounding people up? Like that's the going price for funding bigotry? Its just Chik-fil-a 2.0. Morales only extend as far as their immediate gratification. Its kind of morbidly funny. God help us if the GOP figures out the only thing they need to do take all the donations and funding from the moderates and left is to put out a decent AAA movie or video game. lmao GOP could speed run the next holocaust if they just sit back and collect royalties on the next star wars somehow get them deluxe death camps built in record time. Also the right doesn't need any help with turning something into a culture war. If the right decides that "gabagooches" are the next culture war then that is what we will be arguing about no matter how made up or fake "gabagooches" are. It will be the number 1 issue for the next election cycle. So no the boycott didn't make Hogwarts legacy a success. Hogwarts legacy is a success because people suffer from terminal boredom and apathy and Harry Potter is a great source of nostalgic brainrot.

" I think its a pretty small ask to not buy Harry Potter stuff." Imma stop you right there, that is a huge ask. You dont agree with some of the political opinions of the author, so you think you have the right to ask others not to buy the books or other products? Stop trying to ban and cancel stuff, authoritarian tendencies abound. Edit: Ok I went and skipped to your last sentence, which is unhinged. Hogwarts Legacy is a success because Harry Potter is one of the most beloved young adults series of all time, not because of "brainrot" like what the fuck are you even talking about dude.

>that is a huge ask Sounds like the most first world problem to ever problem in the first world. Anyone who thinks this deserves to be ridiculed relentlessly. I'm sure they would also be the first to bitch if you bought a product from a source whose express purpose was erasing them from society.

Stop telling other people what to do. Its very selfish of you, I bet you also support policies that tell other people to wear masks indoors or get boosters.

lul yeah figures you are some anti-vaxxer who resonates with this "do whatever you want fuck others" mentality.

Anti vaxxer? Dude, stop telling other people what to do, live your life. Its very selfish of you to ask other people not to buy harry potter because JKR tweeted mean things, and its very selfish of you to ask little kids to wear a mask to protect anti vaxx grandma.

Calling people selfish for saying "don't buy video game it supports bigot" is the most gaslightey thing I've seen in awhile.

Seeing the left turn on JKR is hilarious considering that she has always been a liberal, donates to causes that liberals support etc. Also funny seeing people like you not understanding that canceling people is obnoxious, and that telling other people that they shouldn't play a video game is authoritarian nonsense. Mind your own business. JKR literally was a billionaire, she isn't gaining anything from this game

Holy shit, yes we do support policies that tell people to get vaccinated and wear masks- policies that are instituted by workplaces who want to prevent the spread of disease amongst their employees. The whole “live and let live” thing stops working when your choices directly affect the safety of others. It’s called externality.

Stop asking little kids to wear masks to protect anti vaxx grandma, its very selfish of you. Stop asking people that you have no idea of their medical histories to get shots because it makes YOU uncomfortable. I had a bad reaction to the first covid shot and people like you think I should be mandated to get more even though covid is pretty much a non issue for someone my age. Wear your masks and get your boosters all you want, Bubbleboy, but don't ask others to do the same! Its very selfish!

Anti vaxxers arent the only one who get the disease, and when they do they spread it to others. We have kids wears masks to keep the spread from moving to teachers and to other parents. Everyone who gets sick and needs to be hospitalized takes up medical resources from other people. Again, all of these are what’s called externalities. It’s why vaccines are so necessary. The reason we have determined kids and teens should get the vaccine is because the risks even to them of the shot are much lower than the risks of covid- even getting covid with the shots is better than without, it drastically lowers the symptoms. “I had a bad reaction to the first covid shot”, okay, so did the doctors decide you shouldn’t get more for health reasons? If so you wouldn’t be mandated to get more, if they determine the risks outweigh the benefit. I’ve no issue with you and neither does the government. If not, then I’m going to assume your one of those clowns who got “the shakes” on tiktok, but only when the camera’s on and conveniently not when you’re driving a car or walking up stairs. Placebo effect is a hell of a drug.

Holy shit you still want kids to wear masks? Just admit you were wrong instead of doubleing down you psychopath. Let them be kids, you are teaching them that they are a vector for disease and that they should be cautious of infecting others at all times. What the fuck dude.

Because people who are trans advocates can do other things to support trans rights besides joining an ineffective boycott. Also that hypothetical is not happening here, so of course that didn't run through the heads of people like Vaush. Like do you really think trans advocates should just automatically listen to what anything a trans person or another trans advocates says to them? Vaush said he wants arguments and cares about outcome based politics, he doesn't care about how someone feels for playing a game.

> Like do you really think trans advocates should just automatically listen to what anything a trans person or another trans advocates says to them? No but I think it was a small ask to just not play video game. I have skipped games, movies, books whatever before for similar reasons. So I just find the fact that people take such great offense to being asked to skip video game. Also >about outcome based politics Member when Vaush told JK to sit down and shut the fuck up and that did nothing productive? ha

Who cares? Not everyone has the same moral framework like you where they don't consume something for "integrity" or whatever you're talking about. Like I bought Factorio knowing one of the developers was a reactionary conservative who made an unhinged rant about woke people on reddit one time. You have to actually present good arguments to follow through an ineffective boycott. You have to give arguments why they should pay attention to your boycott for this one game out of all the possible problems in the world and how they must show support in that one case when there are other ways to show support. That point about Vaush is irrelevant, people don't 100% follow what their frameworks all the time. Give me arguments besides streamer playing this game makes your feelings hurt.

> Give me arguments besides streamer playing this game makes your feelings hurt. There always were arguments against that? Like socially rebuking people for being bigots? I like how this has always been a thing. Wasn't a problem with Yedolf. Wasn't a problem as much for chik-fil-a. But for some reason the Harry Potter brainrot puts JK above it. The argument here is that it shows you are willing to do the bare minimum to show that yeah you don't like terfs and like trans people. And the funny thing is of course that video games are the easiest most unnecessary things in the world. Its entertainment. You can literally find that in a dozen different places. I think that's what gets me about this. If they can't skip one video game then uh.... What can they do?

You can shit talk the creator while still consume the content. You’re still using the “muh feels argument” with the “showing support”. Never mind JKR didn’t even work on the game herself.

>You can shit talk the creator while still consume the content That just sounds like literally not putting your money where your mouth is. Its basic math. Being transphobic and owning and IP=me, someone who dislikes transphobes, not buying from that IP as long as its associated with you. >Never mind JKR didn’t even work on the game herself. Still her IP.

You do realize boycotting this one game isn't the only way to fight transphobia and advocate trans rights right? Vaush has debated tons of transphobes before, there's many ways to do political action and demonstrate your beliefs. Also you're basically arguing that we should scrutinize someone on their allyship based on actions that don't have real life outcomes. Like this is silly. I'd care more about what that person actually says and what actions they do that have real consequences. Also a lot of Harry Potter fans consume Harry Potter while still not condoning JKR.

It looks as though you may have spelled "Chick-fil-A" incorrectly. No worries, it happens to the best of us!

This might be a hot take, but I think streamers who are complaining that it should have been streamed for charity should just do it themselves, Vaush included. He says he doesn't wanna do it because he doesn't like Harry Potter? Too bad, Hasan doesn't either but we still expect Hasan to endure whining for it. Complaining about Twitter randos is pointless content on Vaush's part too. Vaush is one of the few people who could do what he thinks Hasan should have done, he should put up or shut up about it and just charity stream it himself. I'd watch that, I'd donate and I'd laugh at the shitty game with the rest of the viewers. He could even dust off the Twitch stream for it if he wanted to make a dent in Twitch over it like he says he does.

Why do you think the game is shit? If so why would you watch someone stream it, to make fun of it and dunk on it? Is your main criticism of the game that JKR says mean stuff about trans people online and sometimes donates to charities that exclude trans people?

Why was MST3K such a popular show with a massive cult-following? You've never enjoyed bad media with like-minded people for the sake of comedy? I would love more content like this. And there are a million critiques you could make on the content of any of Rowling's works, transphobia or not. If you've never delved into media critiques for Harry Potter specifically... you are kinna on the cusp of a rabbit hole : Shawn: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1iaJWSwUZs](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1iaJWSwUZs) Hoots: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U3dE0sYZqvI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U3dE0sYZqvI)

Lol how about you make the critique instead of relying on shaun? Literally all you have is braindead stuff like goblins are antisemetic and the existance of house elves means JKR supports slavery. Shauns video is nuts, IDK the other video ill watch it

Well if you're a fan of the books, it should be easy enough to verify if Shaun is nuts or not. I don't read her work any "made critique" on my part would be referencing the work of those who have: I'm forced to rely on the corroborated information like this. These critiques of her work are pretty well known, enough so that the "rabbit hole" I mentioned before is in terms of video essays outlining it from many people. Anyway, I understand if the Hoots video is easier to digest, you'll get most of the same info though.

Thanks for admitting that you haven't read the source material, most people dont even admit that before making strong claims about harry potter. Shauns critique is unhinged, he reread the series in bad faith trying to find problematic aspects about it

What did he get wrong? And did you like Hoots better?

They both got so many things wrong, I skipped around and she is making ridicuous claims like "Griphook is after money thats why he betrayed harry" completely missing the fact that harry was absolutely gonna use the sword of Gryffindor after promising griphook he would give it back. Most attacks are reaching bad faith interpretations.

Did you notice that in the one example you listed, you didn't counter what she was saying, but tried to excuse the Rowling and her writing by saying Griphook might have had additional motivations?

if you knew anything about harry potter you would know how ridiculous she sounds with that. You think JKR should change her writing? How entitled are you lmao, go wear a mask and get boosted

> complaining that it should have been streamed for charity should just do it themselves, Vaush included. Vaush literally said that people shouldn't do this, did you even watch the video?

Vaush did **not** say people shouldn't stream the game for charity, he's been getting shit for critiquing that view and saying it would have been a good thing for it to have been a charity stream, which is why I am baffled he didn't decide to take it upon himself to do. One of his exact arguments was that it would have been good for the trans community for the largest streamer in the game's category to have been a pro-trans advocate raising money for charities Rowling dislikes while making fun of the story/content of the game. I've seen 3 days worth of his content touching this topic, including the last stream where he argued with someone who didn't want it streamed. Did you have to add the snide comment when you are so wrong?

> Vaush did not say people shouldn't stream the game for charity I'm pretty sure saying "even if you buy the game and charity stream it, you still aided in consolidation of the Fuck Trans People Fund" is implicitly the same statement, but if you don't see it that way I'd be interested to hear why.

Because that statement isn't mutually exclusive to his other statements. You can believe both things. Vaush admits that buying the game is giving money to Rowling and whatever bullshit trans-exclusionary charity she wants to spend it on, but has also said: that whoever consumers fund through normal capitalist spending isn't something they should be condemned for, that the system itself will always mean you fund something horrid and you shouldn't let it control how you find enjoyment and live your life. He's acknowledged that if Hasan buys the game, he gives money to Rowling while also saying that it has the positive effects of everything I listed before. Clearly he finds those aspects more valuable to the left and trans people than the negatives of Rowling having an extra cut of whatever a game purchase grants her.

Finally, my sanity can be restored

you're a good man. thank you.

THANK YOU Tempest and the mods. It was getting real SOY talking about the video game and it’s impacts

Thank God. I am so sick of this discourse.

Is this because people keep promoting illegal means to play the game? I've heard reddit (the company) is really touchy about the topic.

No it’s because people were annoying about the stupid game

I don't think that's likely. I checked reveddit and there's a lot of promotion of piracy being removed by the mods and a worrying number of "[Removed by Reddit Legal]"s as well.

r/ illegallifeprotips Has people literally discussing actual criminal activity. If that still exists than I doubt they care about some piracy. Also r/ Piracy is a thing lmao.

Reddit almost certainly cares more about piracy than some people talking about miscellaneous crime. I don’t think the legality is what matters—I’m pretty sure it comes down to how likely each is to (a) upset advertisers; and (b) make bad press for reddit

Well like I said r/ piracy literally exists and it’s a big sub.

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Thankfully my post got spared, whew!

Based.

Halle fuckin lujah

Allah is good, Allah is great

THANK YOU TEMPEST

Literally like Waushs Horse farm and 1674 combined

Guys. I'm starting to think authoritarianism might be based.

Considering the lefts embrace of mask mandates, vaccines mandates, and restriction of movement during the pandemic thats not surprising

But all those things were very popular. That's democracy.

Those things were only popular is certain areas, and that doesn't change that it is authoritarian. I never supported any mandates or restrictions, heck most people outside of cities never did.

Mandated how, exactly? Was the U.S. government using police force to vaccinate people??

Most people live in cities fyi. That's democracy. You don't know what the Word authritarianism means.

Lol wear your mask and get your boosters, Bubbleboy, but its very selfish of you to ask others to do the same. Especially if they are little kids who aren't even meaningfully affected by covid. authoritarian tendencies abound, lock me down harder daddy! Its embarrassing honestly.

If you don't like it you're free to move to another country.

Yes, thank you ​ I'm so tired of this fucking discussion

Thank you mods. You are the most based. Holy shit im so fucking tired of the discourse.

thank fucking god

Thank you so much

This is why you don't by British products ☝️

Thank the stars

Thank god

Understandable, have a nice day.

Can I suggest he stream the game for charity on the content suggestions?

The “read another book” crowd are all invited to a pizza party. We did it, gamers

Thank God, this sub was so annoying with the constant bitching about it

Thank fuck

Thumbs up.

I will feed

Thank you God, I will be sacrificing my firstborn tonight as promised

Welp, it was fun while it lasted.

shoe posts next please

It might be worth having a thread about the recent successful boycott against Hasbro by the D&D community and why that was successful in its limited and specific scope with its targeted and directed actions. There is still a way to take action and make statement that has a measurable success outcome, but it is not quite as straightforward or flashy and requires some work, so it is not going to appeal to everyone.

LETS GOOOOOOOOO

Honestly, pathetic decision mods. Since yesterday, a game dev said he was boycotting the game and JK responded to Jesse Genders pretty reasonable video and called it purethink. Things got a tad spicy around here and you shut down the discussion. It wasn't done yet. It had been like 2 days. God help we actually try to change a thing that mattered in this dumbass world.

You mean that video Vaush (admitively very briefly) watched last stream where Jesse said that Hasan wanting to stream the game with a charity was "capitalist" and how Hasan should instead bring in a trans person on stream as if normies give a fuck about some random trans person vs the very popular Harry Potter game? The one where she gestured to Hasan to be a champion to his already existing audience as opposed to progandizing other normies to become more leftist? Like I haven't watched the rest of that video but she better have better arguments than "it's to support trans people." Edit: I watched the video and it was more retarded than what Vaush watched. Holy shit. Like she literally admits that you can't take down JKR with the boycott, so what's the fucking point. She kept harping on not using the tools of the oppressor like as if oppressors stream a fucking video game to own trans people. It just sounds like "we go high when they go low" liberal bullshit.

I could make a post about Jim sterling making a video doing the bad argument, but i wouldnt add anything but im pathologically obligated to share my opinions and thoughts on certain things so ill leave it here.

Thank god

Thank god

Thank god

Oh god finally. Thank you

Does "ethical consumption under capitalism" in this case only refer to discussions that are tied to the game or is this part of theory of the table for now?

Based!!!!

baaaaaaseed

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💀

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lol

Ngl, its a boring franchise so I don't have anything to add, but he made a video about it ""1 day ago", so it's kind of a weird take to make this post on that day. Like , sure, we don't need spam posts but Vaush is still talking about this so you can't really blame anyone.

Are we also not allowed then to mention any specific tweet from Jk Rowling because It's funny or head empty? Or Just no mention of Her at all as if She doesn't Exist?

Unbanned the discourse I beg you QwQ

Completely unrelated but I just got banned from r / enough\_vaush\_spam

"Protesting with your wallet" is a far right wing pro-capitalist position.

Personally this discourse has made me realize that this sub honestly doesn't care about trans people we are just tools for your political game. I dont care if you played the game its just telling us how to act and that we are optically being bad is so condescending. It honestly lost almost all of my trust in this community It feels pretty bad to be a trans person here after this discourse. Lots of mask off moments the drama was so petty but yall had to make it your freaking identities and spam it really says a lot that so many here want to be perceived as supportive. Feels like dave chappelle discourse in other subs 2.0 with us being accused of bullying and harassment for just expressing dissatisfaction its gross and annoying. A lot of yall got the same gamer gate tendencies deep down lol.

>…it’s just telling us how to act and that we are optically being bad is so condescending… Literally all people are pointing out is that this unnecessary crossfire is hitting people who aren’t even transphobic and support trans people. Gatekeeping and labeling random people as bigots for buying a video game (who’s profits aren’t even directly going to JK Rowling) is not helping the movement. If pointing out shitty behavior is condescension then I guess we can stay in our circlejerk bubble and pretend we are spreading progressivism like most of the online left

That's not the problem OP has. The problem is that it's a very small sacrifice in the current struggle for trans rights, the smallest, it can barely be called one. Depriving the publisher of a few thousand sales to make it clear that open bigotry will lose them the leftist demographic. These are hardly the stakes, it would be nice to advance the cause in any way, but surely something like this would be the bare minimum of commitment right now. And yet the allies of trans people can't be bothered to deprive themselves of the experience of a fallout-quality game just to make that statement. And of course now the transes have to be the bad guys because they're imposing moral obligations on everyone else or whatever. To see all the people who make up the movement go "nah, I care about my pop culture media too much, sorry. Death of the author. No ethical consumption (which doesn't apply to luxury goods). Trans rights tho 🏳️‍⚧️✊️" as a trans person (which I'm not), must be really depressing. It seems to me like these people are asking themselves "wait, do our allies actually care about doing anything to materially advance our rights at the cost of something? Or was it just about feeling smarter than other political people by choosing the right ideology all along?" Do we really care about goddamn videogames this much? I don't support bullying Girlfriend Reviews or whatever else happened.

How is it a sacrifice when we aren’t gaining anything from it? So far the boycott hasn’t done anything except antagonize people who could potentially be pulled over to the movement in the future.

It's not a sacrifice, because I can't imagine being asked for anything this easy and unimportant and calling it a sacrifice. That being said, have tou noticed how many people that nominally stand for trans rights aren't willing to do anything about it or change their own lives in any way? This (not giving up on wizard game) is a warning sign of that. That's why it's so troubling. And as for what we would gain, I already wrote it down. It makes it clear that if your IP is associated with massive bigotry, you lose the progressive audience. How hard is this to understand?

>it’s not a sacrifice You….said it was in the previous comment? >That being said, have tou noticed how many people that nominally stand for trans rights aren't willing to do anything about it or change their own lives in any way? This (not giving up on wizard game) is a warning sign of that. That's why it's so troubling. The average person isn’t an extroverted political activist. Also this notion of “you should look inwards and change your life for a minority group” is so vague and unspecific that it does nothing but cast guilt and shame >And as for what we would gain, I already wrote it down. It makes it clear that if your IP is associated with massive bigotry, you lose the progressive audience. How hard is this to understand? Damn, in that case, the kingdom heart series should also be a successful boycott because Walt Disney was racist.

"Walt disney was racist" So? He's fuckin' dead. And the Kingdom hearts series isn't literally about "deciding" whether you should or shouldn't oppress a minority population from trying to gain their freedom and rights. And put a trans character named "SIRona RYAN" in it lmao. Bit on the nose when you understand the Harry Potter naming conventions (Black man called Shacklebolt lmao.)

Okay, I interpreted your previous comment as reasonable disagreement, but you've officially dived into mouth breather territory. Either you're not listening or you're pretending you're not listening. The density of wrongness is so high that I'm gonna need time to answer. I'll make edits to this comment later. >You….said it was in the previous comment? I specified the term wasn't exact for this context, you can just check.

Lmao

Bro progressive people who want to play the game aren't going in their head wondering whether gender or sex are different things or having that suicide statistic run through their head as they giggle at the number. They just like Harry Potter or for people like Keffals, want to do something positive over playing it like a charity stream. This is insane extrapolation. It's like thinking Hasan is going to call his gay friend Austin the f slur on stream just because he eats Chick Fill A.

Oh god… don’t say that. Not buying a video game is not a sacrifice or a showing of solidarity. It’s a mild slap on the ass and thumbs up at best. This wasn’t even trans activism, it was a badly planned out crusade against JK Rowling that backfired and ended up promoting the game and boosting sales.

Look, consider this, how does supporting a game made by people who aren’t trans phobes, hurt trans people? Yeah JKR gets her .5% cut, she’s already rich, she’s already giving tons of money to terfs and what not, we all can’t unbuy the books or the movie tickets, we all made her powerful before she conveyed her hateful ideals, and then used the money her fans gave her, whom I would guess are disproportionately LGBTQ+, to essentially yell about how they shouldn’t exist, as an extra tragic layer to all this. The people who actually made the game however, iirc, aren’t transphobic in any way that I’m aware of, and they bothered to add a trans rep, and did the cyberpunk solution to character genders. It probably hurts WB and the dev more to not get a sale than JKR, who again, already is rich, and that won’t likely change. Point is, people liked Harry Potter, and people were wanting a game like this for over a decade, before all of the terf shit. Personally, I think the better message would’ve been to just blow up socials with trans charities via HP incorporation rather than trying for a video game boycott. Does anyone remember the MW2 (2009) boycott?

>Look, consider this, how does supporting a game made by people who aren’t trans phobes, hurt trans people? It hurts trans people by signalling to the market that transphobia as part of their IP won't cost them sales, I don't know how much clearer I can make this. Remember how the point Vaush has been making about rainbow capitalism for years is that at least the stupid rainbow logos mean that the companies know there's an economic incentive in catering to us? (And before you say the IP isn't directly associated with transphobia, it's now very closely associated with the author and the author has made bigotry her entire public platform, saying that the IP isn't associated with bigotry would be luke saying that Cthulhu isn't associated with racism while Lovercaft is still alive.) >The people who actually made the game however, iirc, aren’t transphobic in any way that I’m aware of, and they bothered to add a trans rep, and did the cyberpunk solution to character genders. Yes, that does change things. The news about Sirona Ryan was actually very positive for me, because it both made chuds very mad with their virtue signalling preorder and it was basically a victory for us on the marketing level. It proved that the market still thinks we're right, and the devs aren't okay with leaving us out to dry, but instead want to make it clear to us that they support us no matter what the source material's author thinks. I have no real problem if you want to buy the game knowing that is in it. And, by the way, it proves that I was right all along, because all this media noise about trans people clearly scared the developers who made a shallow gesture in our direction to signal that they would like to excise tranphobia from their brand identity, therefore they know we are a market presence. However, the discourse now isn't about the game anymore, but about the justified reaction of hurt that trans people are expressing towards us. At what? At the fact that before the Sirona apology, most people who were trans, allies, or favourably aligned apolitical types (actually, very few trans people did, that's kind of the point), when presented with all this logic, shrugged and refused to make the minor abstinence, ergo, they actively chose to buy the TERF game. And when they get asked why it's the same sheepish "I can't stop myself" that vegans get from meat eaters (I'm not vegan myself to be clear, but they are right). Can you really blame trans people from feeling betrayed? Really? Are you gonna call them "guilting and weakening the movement"? Because that's what OP was calling out. >It probably hurts WB and the dev more to not get a sale than JKR I don't know if you've been told this by uninformed people or as a bad faith attempt to muddle the terms of the conversation, but it's false. Devs get paid before a game releases, that's how they pay rent. Unless you're complaining that withholding our purchase would harm the studio, in which case, yeah? That's the POINT of making a statement. Rich moneybags get less money, boo hoo, they analyse the market to improve their product. By your logic, literally every boycott ever is unjustified, because workers get hurt somewhere in the chain. Huh??? >again, already is rich, and that won’t likely change. That has nothing to do with this. We should do things because we want to, not because it'll make billionaires poor, that's defeatist. But it is pretty grotesque for leftists to straight up give money to JK Rowling after everything she's done, now that you make me think about it. >Point is, people liked Harry Potter, and people were wanting a game like this for over a decade, before all of the terf shit. This logic doesn't hold up. "Point is, people liked Chris Brown's music, before all the Chris Browning he did. Can you really blame them for buying the new Chris Brown album?"

> It hurts trans people by signalling to the market that transphobia as part of their IP won’t cost them sales The market has already indicated that being outwardly pro-trans is the best move buisness wise, for most markets, even if it is just rainbow capitalism and all that. It would be one thing if the game was actively espousing TERF ideology, but it isn’t, partially because the people that actually made it don’t believe that shit, and partially because it doesn’t sell well to a wide audience. I would be extremely suprised if HL doing well leads to WB or other companies ‘choosing’ to involve themselves in problematic IP’s. No one wants bigoted talent, it’s a headache that leads to too much controversy and situations like this. > Can you really blame trans people from feeling betrayed? Really? Are you gonna call them “guilting and weakening the movement”? No, I can’t, people are right to feel however they wish, but we should try to get out from the no true Scotsman shit that plagues leftism as a whole, especially over something as stupid and in consequential as a video game. Quite litterally there are bigger fish to fry, and getting overcritical about art (that isn’t written by a transphobe, inspired by yes, but I wouldn’t consider that reading HP fanfic means you support JKR’s ideals) is less of a concern than transfolk getting made illegal in Tennessee. I didn’t even buy it, I got FE instead, but all of the discord and keyboard warrior stuff is annoying. As for the game dev stuff, the point about the boycott being ineffective is that JKR is insultated from it, the effected parties would be the dev and WB, who at the very least aren’t comparing an anime girl with a gun to anti suffragist posters. Yeah, game devs get paid regardless of sales or success (there can be bonuses depending on various targets) but at a time of layoffs and a looming recession/depression, putting out a bad product could make or break a companies prospects for future projects, which could result in downsizing. Given, this probably won’t happen, the game is reviewing great, and people are playing, but even if there was a successful boycott, JKR wouldn’t have lost anything bc she didn’t have any risk. > This logic doesn’t hold up. “Point is, people liked Chris Brown’s music, before all the Chris Browning he did. Can you really blame them for buying the new Chris Brown album?” The logic holds, it’s like saying a different rapper supports/tolerated what Chris Brown did because he was inspired by his debut album. It’s the same degree of separation, as Rowling only gave the setting, other people made a game out of it.

And I better not get a reply to the most nuanced and empathetic explanation I can muster that's like "didn't read"

Lol JKR has donated millions mostly to general charitable causes that most liberals support. Shes on the left on pretty much everything except this one issue, and you bring up the money she has sent to terfs. Lol. She is notable for losing her billionaire status due to charitable givings. None of those were to terfs

Nah I don't think trans allies should automatically listen to what trans people ask them to do. That is an idpol dogma that I'm not going to dignify. That'd be like if a black guy went on Vaush's stream and asked him to not joke about systemic racism to "show solidarity to black people" or if a gay guy were to go to Hasan's stream and tell him not eat Chick Fill A. I care more about what's actually effective and the consequences not what they feel. People who disregard the boycott like Hasan, Keffals and Vaush say the boycott is ineffective and how there are better ways to advocate trans rights than boycott this one game. Boycotters need to have better arguments and reasons to convince non boycotters.

Ah now i understand how marginilised group in china must feel anytime someone buys a fromsoftware game or a ubisoft game

The problem is that youre asking other people to make that "sacrifice." stop telling other people what to do, stop trying to cancel things, and stop doing this while turning around complaining about republicans trying to ban books. Its embarrassing.

Thanks for the "insight" from an actual Conservative. I assume you would apply this logic to the Montgomery bus boycott as well? Can't wait for your comment to get upvoted anyway because this sub cares more about the hivemind than any actual arguments though

Look at how Keffals is treated. She didn’t act like a “good” trans person so the terminally online tried to cancel her. For some reason a lot of discussion around trans issues often leads to trans people being infantilised and is incredibly condescending from my perspective. I legitimately have trans friends who are playing this stupid wizard game but are terrified to even talk about it or even show they are. One even had to make a new burner steam account incase anyone knew her steam account.

You should just watch Vaush’s take on his issues with this boycott in his last vod if the community dismissing this boycott as useless is the straw on the camels back.

Therapy. NOW

What the fuck is wrong with you bud.

A lot

Ong same fr

A lot of what I believe is through intellectualization of a specific topic that doesn't affects me at all but I want to have a fair judgement on. I think that optics is a bad way to frame things, because it makes it sound like it doesn't matter and the only throwback is you looking rude. But rhetoric is part of what makes a behavior good or bad since the outcome of a movement is not only having a position that makes the world less hurtful, you also have to convince people of using your framework. And second, let's say that you still find it condescending because it would only hurt trans people and I'm not one of them (which I think that's still dumb but I don't want to make the comment too long) You're opening the gates to use any rhetoric in the books, even the ones that have terrible outcomes, for everyone else too. You are fostering and environment of division in which the main motivation is to hurt people that hurt you while using the excuse of being morally in the right and having terrible outcomes as result. I think you have to do one of two things, 1_ Accept that hurting people that hurt you isn't a moral good thing to do BUT you don't always want to maximize good outcomes for everyone else and this time you're doing it for yourself. Or 2_ Punch a pillow and be rhetorically effective to maximize good outcomes for your community. That idea that being hurtful to others does actually make good changes and "it's just optics" it's a cope because you want to have your cake and eat it too.

Sure, the HP discourse is annoying, but anything revolving around ethical consumption under capitalism?? That's pretty common socialist discussion in general.

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If you bought a Nestlé product, I think you're cringe. Not some random 11 year old on the street that has never heard of the boycott and doesn't know much about water rights. You, reading this. I think you're cringe. I've seen 2 people in this subreddit who claim to have bought Nestlé products out of spite. You are deeply embarrassing human beings. Nestlé is a hateful idiot and I think about them asinine comments every time the subject of Nestlé is raised. If you are going to publicly advertise that you are eating the product, I am not going to respect you. I am going to think about that time that they stole all the water. The people in your life are going to see that you are consuming their products. They are going to know that you know that they are a hateful idiot. And they are going to wonder about you. And your smug, liberal insistence that you are a good person won't really matter because nobody outside of yourself is super concerned with whether or not you are a good person. I don't know if you're a good person or a bad person. I just know you're a loser. Not some random person who isn't involved in "the discourse." You.

I mean I try to avoid Nestle too. Though the food cartels are a bit harder since they have a lot of smaller companies wrapped up in them. You can buy a Nestle product and not even know it because most people think chocolate milk when they think Nestle. Not Purina Cat Chow or fucking Boost or something. Wizarding world is pretty explicitly JK Rowling's IP.

Don't care. Everyone who buys Nestlé products hates African people. Just like Everyone who buys this stupid ass game hates Trans people. I love leftist boycotts dude. Step one 1: make free advertisment for the product by having a months long discurse about it and have infighting wich Breaks your communitys Step 2: the product has record high sales Step 3: infighting

Hot take. Food stuffs are harder to skip out on than fantasy wizard video game. Especially when only a handful of food companies control like everything. One is needed to literally live. The other is because you are bored and are looking to sink like 30-60 hours of your life into something.

I don't care. Buy food from other Companys. Do your Research its not that Hard. Don't Support a Company wich steals water. Btw, We are at step 3 obviously

Boost is literally doctor recommended for cancer patient treatments. Nestle is so big you can't even get chemo without running into their products in the chemo room fridge. I've been in those rooms. You are comparing life sustaining food stuffs that run straight into the "there are is no ethical consumption in capitalism" territory to wizard video game. People fucking successfully boycott DND stuff because of IP shenanigans by wizard of the coast but Potterheads can't even bother when the owner of the IP becomes queen of the terfs. lmao

Yes! Almost got it there at the end! This Boycott Was NEVER going to work. It was doomed to fail from the beginning. All you people did was geving the game millions in free advertisment and the rights amunition against Trans people. We all lost because of your insane infighting and harassment. The left, especially the online left has to choose its battles very carefully. Boycotting a Highly anticipated game wich is part of one of the Biggest franchises on the World? No Chance my dude. Only hardcore leftists even know or care about the JKRs trans stuff. Also, comparing the D&D BOYCOTT with this is stupid

> This Boycott Was NEVER going to work. I never expected it to. That doesn't make the people who claim to like trans people and just bought it because it was the hottest piece of media to distract their lives for a couple of hours. I mean. I think that deserves a little ridicule in my book. Its just objectively funny how flimsy their principles are on this. Extra funny if its a gay person who got upset at people eating bigot chicken but now they are playing terf wizards or something. >We all lost because of your insane infighting and harassment. The left, especially the online left has to choose its battles very carefully. Eh. I don't think this moved the needle anywhere. Culture war shit like this rarely does. I think most trans people kind of resigned themselves to the fact people will just keep buying HP shit until the end of time even if Rowling just goes out there and says she wants to eradicate transgenderism or some shit. I mean conservatives just kind of throw everything at the wall to see what sticks and it doesn't really hurt them at all. And anyone who is going to switch ideologies because someone woke scolded them over a video game was just waiting to make that jump. Ultimately this is pretty meaningless. The trans people I know are only a bit disappointed in their friends who dove in on this. That's it. The people who got scolded will forget about this whole experience as soon as they move onto the next thing since that's what landed them in the naughty zone to begin with. They are just constantly looking for some temporary relief from their life.

I bought it. I also bought it for my trans friend. Seethe.