I think it's worth noting that *they still aren't believing you.* They're only believing what Dear Old Grandma (DOG) has to say - it took her coming clean to clear your name, when it was her word against yours to begin with. So it's not that they're believing you *now.* It's that they're still believing anything she says, and they're *not listening to you.* Especially your daughter with her ambush tactics with your ex. I'm not saying never make peace with 'em, but I think that it's entirely reasonable to never get back together with your ex, and to have a cautious relationship with your daughter - doubly so, now she's stabbed you twice (once with believing the DOG and once with this ambush dinner.)

In a comment OP mentions that apparently MIL paid someone to confess to being the affair partner. Not that this changes much, but it's a biiiit of an upgrade from he said she said.

ok, that's an upgrade, but I'd still want to know how they met and knew each other, etc. etc. (Especially knowing DOG is the sort to show up at her son's wedding in white. I mean, "tell me you want to fuck the groom without telling me you wanna fuck the groom" why don'tcha. I'd want three forms of ID goddammit!)

Still, some "friend" you know is buddies with your toxic mother coming and saying "oh ya I had an affair with her. Oh, what was that? Do I have texts or pictures? You'll just have to take my word for it." I would say that's a step in a certain direction. But not something that would justify just throwing your spouse to the wolves with no chance.

Oh yeah, at the end of the day, the ex doesn't deserve no second chances, because he didn't do that for her.

"no text or pictures? OK, what does the mole on her back look like?"

>Not that this changes much, but it's a biiiit of an upgrade from he said she said. what a slimy thing to do

It changes a lot. The time and energy the monster in law invested to break them up speaks for her. Maybe she hired a PI to catch her in the act or at least get her schedule,a few unaccounted hours was all she needed to pay someone to pretend that those times where the ones they met at a hotel or park etc. Claim that she deleted all texts and was paranoid of getting caught. There are million ways of sowing doubt. All this coming also from your mother who was an ass to your wife but not that deranged cemented that thought. Sure hindsight is 20 20 but at the moment all you see is proof of your wife cheating, the guilt of distrusting and doubting your mother for all this time, and the pain of betrayal. Aweful and cruel situation to be in. I didn't really blame him here, his reaction wasn't great but understandable. At the end the family did fall victim to that monster.

You'd expect the ex to be super careful with his mum. Unless he did think/fear OP was cheating, he believed it 100% without much evidence. The affair partner confessing with 0 other evidence is a bit sus. We also don't know the context in which that confession was given, which can change things. It's one thing if he separately reached out to the ex vs the MIL dragging him along/calling him. At the end of the day, I judge the ex the most now, for expecting OP to just come back as if it didn't happen.

She's still going to be after OP, and OP's ex and daughter are going to be MIL and ex: the next generation. I'd counsel op to continue NC with daughter until she is ready to meet in therapy, because they need someone to keep this crazy train on the tracks if she wants to un-brainwash her daughter.

Well said.

Lol why are they acting as if they're doing you a favour or forgiving you for something you didn't do and cool let's go back together. Are they serious ?

The daughter calling her mother asshole for leaving while she didn’t even contacted her for 4 years or even try to hear her out baffles me like wtf

and also brought along the man who divorced her without mentioning it. did she think it wouldnt be upsetting? in what context would you go to a private meeting and not tell the person you were bringing someone with you

She must think life is like a Disney movie- "Oh yes, mummy and daddy will get back together now that the evil witch has been exposed." Rather than thinking dad really f\*cked up by believing his mother who had a track record of hating OP and he f\*cked up by having me believe the lie. Of course, I f\*cked up too by never wanting to see my mother until now. Both ex and daughter suck for what they let happen to the OP and what they did themselves to OP. If OP's life is happy and content, she shouldn't invite these unkind people back into her life.

agreed but I absolutely understand why she would make an attempt to start rebuilding with her daughter. it seems like even through all this op adores her. but i think all those years under MIL's thumb probably changed her for the worse

Yeah, the daughter isn't very bright or she inherited some of her grandma's attitudes

she inherited some of her grandma's attitudes " IM DEAD💀💀😭😭

…And the whole stupidity of her dad.

Apple, tree, etc. Really tragic, poor OP.

That part was hurtful to read.

Yup. 21 or not the daughter is out of line.

I'm glad I wasn't the only one who was real hurt by that! The daughter doesn't seem to understand that EVERYTHING was ripped from OP! She lost her man, her daughter, her home, her life - EVERYTHING! To even begin to pick up the pieces from that is incredible. The daughter didn't even want to SEE her! That hurt my heart right there! I would have been distraught!

I don’t know why op doesn’t blame the daugher too for just believing the lie. If the daugher was old enough to be heard in court she ought to be old enough not to believe anything. Rarely people with cheating parents also completely cut them of like this without any contact either.

Op, please put your mental health above your daughter and your ex. Also, do not meet with either of them before speaking with your therapist. They are both trying to storm your life at the same speed they left it. Do not allow that to happen. You put a lot of work into getting to where you are now, do not give up that control you now have over your life. If you need to, take a few weeks and get away from all this so you can think. Ultimately, please put your self care above your now adult daughter and her dad. Rooting for you.

I feel like the dads mom could have bad mouthed her mom too and she could’ve been heavily influenced to believe her mom was a bad parent. Not giving excuses cos she is at a mature age now and it’s so sad her daughter didn’t even try to come around for her mom but yeah that could be a reason

Ya bro it got me so angry

Sounds like daughter has had too much influence from MIL

Believing his mother over his wife is weird

Yeah, it’s gross. And, like, wouldn’t he question how his mother, of all people, just happened to find out about this alleged affair? Poor OP. I hope she doesn’t take his toxic ass back. And her daughter needs to check herself.

OP said the MIL claimed to have evidence but never explained what it was.

Especially when there's a history of her making problems in the past

Mom's been grooming him since childhood. Still a pathetic waste, but I can see how it happened

Sure they are. They refuse to admit their wrong. And before I ever took either of them into the home again, the EX would need to put a SIGNIFICANT amount of $$$ into the bank in trust for OP if he ever in any way breaks trust with her again. Possibly the equivalent of 4 years salary. They might think her wrong to require that , but THEY broke her trust with them. They threw her aside like a used rag. They do not ever get that chance again.

I get the sentiment but who tf has 4 years salary laying around? Most people don’t even have 6mo worth.

That gutless wonder can get it from his mom.

Most people can’t afford lunch lol

Love and trust has no monetary value

Agreed. They're only doing that because who he left you for didn't work out.

His mom ran that one off, too. Nice that remorseless people can just tell on themselves like this one did. That's quite a set of [apron strings.](https://www.encyclopedia.com/humanities/dictionaries-thesauruses-pictures-and-press-releases/apron-strings-tied-ones-mothers)

Wait, your daughter called You an ASSHOLE because you left after she brought your ex husband with her,without letting you know? She is an asshole and your ex too. He easily believed he’s mother lies after cutting contact with Her and knowing what she’s capable of. They are both assholes for not hearing you out, treating you like you are the worst and now trying to be all loving family again. They caused you so much pain and probably trauma but it seems like they don’t care.

It's easier to think OP is still the AH like she was for the last 4 years and to press her to get the family back, rather than just admitting they were wrong and OP is the victim here. She's super young but honestly it feels like she's 4 and just want to brush the issue under the carpet and play the happy family like it never happened.

i am 19 and my mouth is genuinely agape at how callous and stupid her daughter is. i can’t imagine alienating my MOTHER (who has done nothing but love me) over the word of my father and his mom alone. that is the stupidest thing i can ever think of.

Exactly, as far as I understood her daughter was 17, that’s not a child. At that age she should know how to act in certain situations. OP deserves so much better, new start in her life that’s what she needs, not 2 stuck up on their high horse people.

Yeah I remember being 17 and I definitely could think and use my brain at that age. After 4 years she should’ve been more mature but no, it sounds like she hasn’t learned accountability, such a self centered b.

I'm guessing that the daughter inherited her narcissism from dear granny

There’s a chance the daughters head will leave her ass, after time gives the gaslighting she’s been subjected to for 4 years a chance to subside. I experienced something slightly similar with a young, emotionally black & white person telling me I wasn’t their father. It did get better with time.

You’re a bigger person than I am. The daughter is old enough in this situation to understand she fucked up both times, and is now doubling down by calling the mom an asshole after ambushing her. She’s old enough to have taken a second to listen to her mom when things first came out as well, and to have heard the mom’s side. I would completely cut this daughter out for good.

I agree. It sounds like she'd never even met the grandma before the allegations? This whole story is very strange. I'm estranged from my mom and if she suddenly accused my husband of something I would just be like "k"

You underestimate the bond between parents and their children. This includes unhealthy bonds, which is why children can be so easily manipulated. She is still half her mothers and OP seems reasonable. If they go to therapy together, it could help. I was brainwashed into thinking horrible things about my mom..like they made me sick and i couldn’t talk to her. She wasnt a good mom, but not to the lengths I was led to believe. Lots of therapy, and just growing up helped me see things for what they were and despite her misgivings, i have a relationship with her now. This child was emotionally abused but shes still young enough to turn it around if she chooses.

[удалено]

You took the words right out of my mouth. OP, I would tread very carefully.

Fr I hope they get to suffer the consequences. They need to know that “changing their minds” aint fixing shit from the shitshow they did to op.

Do they think op doesnt have feelings or smth?

Normally I think people should reconcile, but the daughter and husband deserve no reconciliation or relationship with OP in this scenario. The daughter made her choice, she was both old enough now AND then to understand her decisions and choices. If I was OP I would never see any of them again. Complete no contact.

First of all, take all the time you need. You don't have to follow their timeline. It's perfectly all right to write back "Please give me some time and space to work through everything. I'll contact you when I'm ready." and then mute them. You could also contact a therapist or a counsellor to have an impartial person to talk to. Or friends you know to be clear-headed. You don't have to go through this alone and you don't have to react immediately. BTW, your daughter is stomping over your boundaries: * She didn't tell you that your ex would be there, thus setting you up for an ambush. * You might have chosen not to meet her, had you known that your ex would be present. She withheld that information and took that choice away. * You left (understandably) because you were overwhelmed, and she is calling you an assh\*le and bombarding you with texts? Sorry, that behaviour is unacceptable, regardless of her motivation. Both she and her ex seem to think that they can snip with their fingers and they can just start where everyone left off, with you immediately forget the past and the hurt you've endured. **Your should be your first priority, because they won't make you their first priority.** So please take care and make sure that you make use of your support network. Please feel hugged, and I wish you all the best.

I really appreciate seeing this. You're right. She crossed boundaries and done some petty stupid decisions. Emotions are running high, and it may take a bit for things to calm down. I'm preparing a text to send to my daughter about going no contact unless she apologizes and handles it like an adult. I'm willing to hear her side, but not her acting like a jerk or involving anyone besides herself. I also contacted my therapist, and I'll be seeing her on Wednesday. Until then, I probably won't have an update unless something happens within the messages. I'm still really heartbroken, and I'm scared about how she is going to react to my message. I have my friends and my parents who are on my side if anything happens. They don't know where I live anyway, so I know I'm safe and I can take my time.

You also need to make it very clear to them how this whole situation has affected you. It's like they all of a sudden know the truth and expect everybody to forget what happened. You were completely devastated by this whole thing because your husband and your daughter, the 2 people on this planet who should have stood behind you, believed what your MIL said even though she's known as a troublemaker specifically because she didn't like you!

Exactly!

Update: I'm crying again. I went to text my daughter about boundaries and building trust again, and she said there was someone else involved without my knowledge during the divorce. My ex's mother got into another fight over the phone with him earlier today and admitted to paying an ex-friend (someone she was fond of) to lie directly in my husband's face and say he was the one I cheated on with. He did it for money. My daughter basically gave me the silent treatment during the divorce, so she never told me. Neither did my ex's mom for obvious reasons. Now, why wouldn't my ex mention it? Because he thought I would just deny it, which I would since I didn't do it. I bet he was so confident in himself, too. I hate them both. Like mother like son, apparently. I can't believe I loved him. He didn't even try to hear my side. I even tried giving my phone to prove my text messages were innocent, and he went, "Nope! I got a verbal confession from said ex-friend, but I won't tell you because communication does not exist." I am beyond furious. Who does that? Pay someone to purposely cause a strain in a healthy relationship? Absolutely ridiculous.

I hope your daughter directs the anger she had for you at your MIL

Unlikely, that anger has been directed at the mother all these years. Probably dissipated by now. Plus, the way grandmother’s mere word was enough, there’s an obvious bias in that direction.

And it was definitely not just that one big thing. I'm sure she's been planting smaller seeds for years.

Grandmother's word and fabricated evidence. She was a child who was manipulated by a trusted adult. Daughter has some issues but she's less of a betrayal than the husband IMO.

I would agree with your assessment if she was 12-14, and grandma wasnt a known problem for the entirety of her life. She was 17. She never spoke to her mother. Just took her psycho grandmas word. 4 years later after no contact, she is making demands, harassing OP, violating boundaries, manipulating and verbally attacking OP. She is what, 21, 22? More than old enough to know her behaviour is completely unacceptable and that she has no right to anything from OP. Daughter is disgustingly entitled.

100% she was a child manipulated by a toxic grandparent. But she's an adult now. So I'm not holding the divorce events against her by any means, but OP has the right to draw strict boundaries with her as an adult now. She needs to be accountable for the way she's treating OP, and calling OP TA because she got blindsided and walked out is not okay. I imagine it's difficult to let go of a belief you held for all those years upon finding out that it was all lies. So family therapy is a great thing. But the daughter can be accountable for what she does now.

Tell her that's a condition of making up to her, that the daughter must now treat the ex-MIL with the same anger that she treated OP

And betrayal. Anger, betrayal, distrust... Oh, and the silent treatment. Daughter's perceived betrayal means she wouldn't say or hear anything from OP until MIL fessed up? Well then after finding out the extent of MIL's ultimate betrayal, there had better be **nothing** MIL can say or do to get daughter in contact with her ever again. The equation is betrayal of trust = zero contact or tolerance until trumped by the truth? Great. Those are the rules, play by them.

ehhh. the anger, just to hold on to, isn't healthy. however, treating grandma with the same level of disdain, disgust, disrespect (etc)... now THAT'S something I can get behind

She'll probably be angry at op for not trying harder to prove her innocence. People tend to double down rather than admit fault.

Take your time it's ok. I would reach out to friends and family and spend your evening with people so you're not alone. They disappeared for 4 years your daughter can wait 48 hours or a week for a response from you. I would strongly recommend if you want to arrange a meeting with your daughter, the next meeting being an invitation to an appointment with a mediator or family therapist with the condition that if she brings her Dad to it you will go No Contact with her, it's a session for her & you only. And in the session you can try and explain to her how far she crossed the line by ambushing you with her Dad and why this reconciliation will only work if she stays out of your romantic life and accepts her parents are divorced because her Dad messed up and that's how it's going to stay. I'm sorry you're going through this.

Definitely with a mediator, in a neutral location. So sorry, OP - that level of betrayal is utterly heartbreaking 🫂

"accepts her parents are divorced because her Dad messed up and that's how it's going to stay. " This one is very important!

Yep. If daughter wants to connect with OP daughter should come alone. Dad not yet invited.

>g off couch to couch in my relatives' homes. I didn't have space for her, and my ex mentioned it in court. It was the main reason why she was granted to stay with her father. I was under stress, and I was not mentally well. I signed off my rights. I looked like a mess in court, too. There was also a lot more going on during the time. Please add this to the main post. Everyone one reddit needs to have their day ruined by reading what happened to you. I'm FURIOUS FOR YOU.

Your husband is completely stupid to believe the ex friend who his mother was fond of. I mean you said MIL made it very clear she was out to get you. Neither your exhusband nor unloyal daughter deserve to just hop back into your life. You deserve to be happy

Your ex MIL seems to also want her son since she's tried to end his new relationship. She's sick in the head and your ex is an idiot that needs therapy himself. God I'm so sorry you've gone through this OP. Good riddance to them. I'm wishing you happiness going forward.

I believe it's called emotional incest 🤮

You poor thing. Please see your therapist and take all the time to heal mentally.

That woman is absolutely crazy. Stay away from them. Take all the time you need to rebuild the relationship with your daughter, which I think is the only one that needs to have a second chance. Your ex husband can go f himself.

This might sound hard for OP to hear but to me it is more the daughter needs to prove to OP that she is someone that OP wants back in her life other than the fact she is her daughter. This woman is not a child and is in her mid 20s now. She needs to account all the pain this woman has caused OP and needs to prove to OP that she is ready to be a person in OPs life. I feel like the daughter has a lot of blame that needs to taken before the reunion can be something that is mutual. Edit: I miss spoke about being mid 20s but even though she is still 21 and the way OPs daughter is acting is disgusting and the daughter needs to alot in my eyes to get back in the mothers good graces

I agree with this. Doesn’t matter that she was a minor. At 17 years old, it’s basic enough of a concept of “hearing someone out” instead of just completely shut them out — let alone your mother.

I think 17 year old daughter can be forgiven for thinking her dad wouldn't lie about something so serious. But 21 year old daughter is WAY over the line bringing Ex to ambush OP while knowing what she knows.

Come on now. Not even asking or hearing the other side at all is just ridiculous. I can’t even imagine how a person must be to just take someone else’s word on something that serious and not wanting to verify it him/herself. That’s not normal human behavior at all.

To be honest after hearing that I'd be looking at lawyers to try and sue either for defemation of character or emotional distress based on a false reality and I'd be going straight for mil and ex husband. They don't deserve you, your graciousness, or your tears. Daughter might be upset. She may not forgive you, but she's also to blame. She's a grown woman who could've asked her own questions and found her own solutions. If my mom was accused of cheating on my dad, I would want 100% solid proof, and my dad would too. Not to mention what you've lost in these four years you deserve compensation. I hope this situation is resolved soon and I hope you get some better people in your life because damn

Don't forget alienation of affection! Is that even applicable here? Her actions drove both husband and child away from OP.

I agree. Her daughter could have approached her in a much softer way than the ambush; and, the daughter didn't really offer an apology either.

Go after the ex-friend who was paid to do this. The betrayal is greater from the ex but this guy is the most vulnerable. Squeeze him and the exMIL first and hardest and take everything you can get. Decide what to do with the ex afterward. Involving him in your first strike will muddy the waters too much.

Honestly her daughter has already proved to be just like the father so honestly I’d never trust her. She may have been 17 but she could have asked her mom. Talked about it. She just said f her regardless of her adamant pleas to be heard as telling the truth. I can see being so upset for a few months. But she never reached out in 4 years to her momma. Never accepted visitation. She made her bed and she can lay in it. And I’m a very forgiving person believe it or not. But I believe who people show me they are the first time. I would have met up w her too to give that second chance as a teenager is different from a now grown 21 year old. But she’s proven she is horrid judging by this new encounter. She’d be out. If yet again one more time when she’s 26 and see it she became an actual suitable human being. But for now she has just proven even more just like her spineless ass daddy she is. Her dad could keep her. I’d never in my life trust that woman.

I agree with this so much- I could never imagine just abandoning my mother over someone’s word. Even *if* my mom actually cheated on my dad, I could still never just go no contact for that. My parents are divorced, and its because my mom is convinced my dad cheated. He denies it. But my dad is an amazing dad and whatever happened between them is their business, not mine. I just think about how broken hearted my parents would be if I went no contact with either of them over it, and it makes me so upset for OP. The daughter wasn’t a small child when this happened, she was an almost adult when it started, and is still an adult now. If someone can be that cruel once, they can be that cruel again.

True. If OP is in the US, lying about someone's sex life is explicitly defamation.

I don't understand how the daughter just sided with dad and (supposedly no contact grandma) on a word.

Hell, there was infidelity on both sides of my family with my grandparents. My parents both maintained strong relationships with both their parents, and the grandkids didn't find out until adulthood.

Ex MIL sounds malignant narcissistic. I’m not a therapist or psychologist, but damn.

Unfortunately the daughter might have rubbed on some narcessism too with her entitled behaviour and crossing bounderies. 4 years is quite a lot a persons personality can change dramatically in those years especially under the influence of MIL.

You hit the nail right on the head. Oof!

You said it in your own post, the fact that he chose to not believe you, his wife, speaks volumes. To me that alone would be reasons to never get back together ever again. It has taken some time but you were able to find happiness, now make sure you protect it and keep it. You don't need that toxicity in your life. You need people who will love and support you and trust you and believe you.

My heart breaks for you op, your ex husband is an asshole for not even listening to your side and showing him that there was no proof. Your daughter is an asshole too for bringing him along with her

I think the daughter handled it poorly, but also consider that she's had 2 crazy manipulative people steering her life for the past 4 years, so of course some of that is going to rub off. I hope the daughter also gets some therapy to help her deal with being manipulated by family like that, and to help her really see her mother's side so they can hopefully have a relationship eventually.

That’s absolutely despicable. I’m not one to say sue someone lightly but is that possible in this circumstance? Either ex mother in law or that ex friend? Since they had a direct connection to your divorce? At least possibly to recuperate lawyers fees from those years ago. Or just the mental anguish they’ve caused?!?!

I was thinking defamation of character...

It was fs defamation of character

Depends on the state. Its a open and shut case in some states.

I agree with the others who have said that before you reconcile with your daughter; that one of your agreements on the road to reconciliation is that she is actively in therapy and has no contact with the grandmother. As long as your MIL has a big influence and presence in your daughter’s life, she will not be able to heal and grow as a person. She is old enough that she can either try to be a better person and cut toxic ppl out of her life or remain stagnant. In regards to your recent comment, I would not bother trying to reconcile with your ex-husband. You do not owe him anything. He made his choices. OP, you deserve to be happy. Choose and put yourself first. I hope you get the healing and peace that you need. Wishing you all the best.

Wow. This is insane. MIL orchestrated an elaborate lie in order for her to have her grown adult son to herself. She turned not only him, but your daughter against you. And now they are mad at YOU because you’re not willing to immediately forgive them. I’m so sorry. Get away from them all. Your ex is toxic as long as his mom is alive. Both he and your daughter need therapy. So do you, but yours is different. You’re a victim of extreme emotional abuse and slander. You need time to process, and there’s no wrong choice here. If you never speak to them again, it’s totally okay. Proud of you for making a new life! ❤️

Oh, you know you are home and free. Don't doubt yourself. You're crying because you're feeling pressured. You are free of your ex and his horrible, horrible mother. You deserve better than a man so tied to his mother's apron strings that he didn't trust his wife. His behaviour was incredibly abusive. You deserve so much better. Your daughter will need to understand that a relationship between you and her will not include her father. She's an adult now and will have to accept that mommy and daddy are not getting back together. I'm so sorry that you are going through this. Geez, I want to give you a hug. =(

I would sue the ex MIL. You should consult an attorney.

Do you live in the US and does the guy who lied have any valuable assets? Because I would sue the shit out of him.

I’m so sorry OP. Take all the time you need to process all of this. Talk with your therapist. You don’t have to make any decisions right now. Put your well being first. This is all shades of royally f-ed up. Sending virtual hugs and comfort!

I'm so sorry. You deserved so much better. You have finally found some happiness in your life again, do not let your ex or even your daughter steal that away from you. Leave the door open for your daughter but with hard boundaries in place. I wish you so much luck, and hope you are able to find the peace and happiness you deserve.

Instead of *immediately* texting your daughter about boundaries and trust, why don’t you just start with asking for time? Say that is because she and your ex just ripped the bandage off your deep wounds that she and he caused by not believing you. And you need time to process. You would prefer to start with her, take one step at a time, and get to any relationship with him later.

I hope you heal from this. My heart breaks for you and all you are going through.

I'm so sorry. Just FYI you should prob add this update to your initial post.

WOW... that mother in law is FUCKIN INSANE SHE NEEDS A PSYCH WARD WTF!! Hugs for you from here... i seriously im teared up hust putting myself in your shoes... wow.

Best not getting back together with that jerk! Unless the daughter respects boundaries and is a not a foil-mouthed POS, best going no contact for the time being. None of them are furious that this happened to you. An innocent person! What completes pieces of shit! I’m furious just reading this. I’m so sorry OP, you had to experience it.

Christ you poor woman. Absolutely appalling behavior from the ex and ex in law.

Something they seem to be missing is that they wronged you, and they need to make up for that. They’ve spent all this time believing you wronged them and are now like “oh she didn’t actually wrong us! Things can go back to how they were!” Completely forgetting that they blew your life up, cut you off, and treated you cruelly over the lies of someone they knew disliked you and was nuts (who unfortunately your daughter seems to have picked up some traits from). That behaviour still happened. It didn’t magically disappear, whereas your “affair” actually did. You never had anything to apologize for, but they wouldn’t accept speaking to you or giving you a chance. Now they have a lot of apologize for, and they are demanding you speak and give them a chance? They are demanding something of you that they themselves have shown they wouldn’t do in return.

Not only that but the daughter has the gall to call her mom an AH for leaving the meeting after secretly bringing her dad along. Honestly the daughter is dense at best, or another AH at worst.

OP please consider tell your daughter that she have to go to therapy before you can even think if you're able to rebuild your relationship after what she did and how she verbally attacked you. Right now she's not different from ex-MIL, trying to control you and your ex relationship. You have work really hard to be okay, you deserve happiness. And if she can't understand what she did/is doing and your boundaries, even if she's your child, you have to stay away before she manipulate and hurt you.

>Right now she's not different from ex-MIL, trying to control you and your ex relationship. She's had 4 years of training from grandma on how to manipulate people and it seems she's learned quite well. Grandma wants to be her son's emotional wife so hopefully that isn't something u/divorcedthrowawayacc's daughter picked up in addition to the manipulation. And OP, it's OK to love your daughter deeply and unconditionally while also being no contact with her. Unconditional Love doesn't mean being a physical or emotional punching bag. I would respond that while you're glad the truth has finally been revealed, the damage already done to you was immeasurable and that if they want any kind of relationship with you they both need to be in therapy to recognize and process the damage done to them, and that you won't have your own progress burned to the ground by people unequipped to deal with their own trauma let alone acknowledge and respect the boundaries of others. You're a good egg. Protect yourself first and foremost.

Apologies and proof of change from the daughter. Ex can go jump in front of a train

Good luck OP!

I think you already moved on and they are both trying to put all the pieces back together which is impossible. You don't have to decide absolutely nothing. Take care and keep enjoying your life.

Ok. I don’t want to sound all James Bond but you said they don’t know where you live. It should stay that way for the time being or forever. What ever you decide. It sounds to me that your ex manipulated your daughter into the meeting or at least your daughter is being manipulative herself. They have been blowing up on calls and texts. You don’t need them showing up at you place unannounced to carry on. You should watch your mirrors and alter your course home daily. What ever you have to do to keep from being followed until this settles down.

OP I'm pissed on your behalf. They already started off on the wrong foot with you by not respecting your boundaries. You've been through something extremely horrible and with time the pain has eased but what you endured and how you were treated will never truly leave you. I understand trying to have a relationship with your daughter but do it IN YOUR OWN TIME and when you are ready. But I would leave your ex where he is. He doesn't deserve you and you've worked so hard getting to a better place. If your daughter doesn't respect your boundaries, love her from a distance. The way my mind is set up I would never go near them again no matter how much love I have I'd wish them well and keep away for my own mental health. I wish you the absolute best OP, sending you love and light.

You also need to connect to your ex and explain to him what his choosing his mother over you did to you...That it broke all trust and it will never be repaired. Unless you are just confused at this point. You say things like this for you, not to work it out or get better, but for you to heal and stand up for yourself.

So glad to hear that OP! All the best, it takes a lot to draw boundaries with family members but they need to learn.

Maybe remind your daughter that she was wrong about you 4 years ago, and that she needs to trust you now. You need to take this slow for your own mental health.

I would not recommend threatening your daughter with no contact. Just explain it was overwhelming to see your ex there unexpectedly, and that you want an opportunity to speak with her one on one. It's also reasonable to say the language she used after you left the resteraunt was unacceptable.

So sorry boo. Protect yourself, if you plan to go down this road to uncover the truth of what really went down. Have a safe space and someone you can speak to..

Piggybacking this comment to say: OP, you’ve done so much work to get to where you are now. Respect the work you’ve done by protecting your progress and setting boundaries. You can’t love anyone if you don’t love yourself first.

Daughter is acting like grandma and it's distressing af

She just went through 4 years of indoctrination. She seems gone.

Sounds like they spent too much time around MIL and picked up some of her traits.

Wish I could upvote this twice.

I did it for you

This. People are terrible. The audacity of them, just wow. So quick to drop u in a second for years and then so quick to pick u back up, they are treating u like their property, not like you are a person. I’m truly sorry you have to go through this. This story is heartbreaking.

The daughter has a lot of growing up to do. Ok she was 17 but she’s about 21 now. She sounds self centered and focused on wanting things quickly for her convenience. It’s almost as if she lacks critical thinking and communication skills. She doesn’t seem to evaluate the extremity of their behavior, and lack of responsibility.

You were right to leave them behind. Four years ago, they left you behind based on a false accusation with no evidence. They caused you serious mental strife to the point that you needed to seek individual counseling. And now they seem to think saying "I'm sorry" is sufficient to sweep it all under the rug and get you to come back. Life doesn't work that way. If I were in your shoes, I'd be sending back something to your daughter along these lines: *Four years ago, you and \[ex\] threw me away like yesterday's garbage with no proof simply on the word of my then mother-in-law. You two ignored me for four years. You moved on with your lives. A simple "I'm sorry" isn't enough to erase the significant harm your actions have caused. I too was forced to move on with my life but now you seem to believe that just because you feel bad, I'm supposed to ignore all the hurt and damage you've done to me. Well, I'm sorry too because it doesn't work that way with me. I need time to process what has happened and to truly think whether or not I want to risk being tossed aside again like I was four years ago. This is a trust issue and, right now, my trust in you has been broken for four years. I will meet you to talk about it, but only you. If \[ex\] is around, I will leave again like last time. Don't deceive me again.*

THIS!!! They don’t get to do the family hop again! They hopped from OP over to exes mom, and now they want OP back into the fold. They literally abandoned her based on the lies of a woman your ex **knew** to have huge issues with her, and be capable of using that dislike to do malicious things. **He ignored that and that’s on him.** OP is not a consolation prize because their new life was built on a lie you already tried to explain to them. The truth only came out because your exes mom couldn’t get along with **anyone**! If he found a partner she could bend, mold, and manipulate they wouldn’t even be in contact with OP right now.

Tbh I feel bad for the new-ex girlfriend now too. Imagine you start dating someone, oh he was cheated on so your marriage fell apart, that’s so tough, oh you have a daughter? Neat, love to meet her. Now we’re meeting your mother? Oh shit she’s a evil witch!! Why is she being so horrible to me? Wait we’re breaking up now?! Take about a miserable roller coaster to ride. Granny has ruined a lot of lives.

I was thinking that the fact that he was so quick to toss his new relationship aside shows that he hadn’t changed at all. Was this really all mom’s doing or is he yet type of guy who is itching for an excuse once a relationship gets boring.

Wernt they married for like 20 years though. That doesnt really show just jumping when things get boring. He definitely was an AH for not giving his Wife the oppurtunity to tell her side for sure but I dont think that is neccesarily the case.

>They literally abandoned her based on the lies of a woman your ex knew to have huge issues with her, and be capable of using that dislike to do malicious things. Yeah, that's the big thing to me- it'd be one thing if his mama's boy bullshit was consistent up until the point where he found out she lied about the affair, but the guy clearly demonstrated an ability to understand that his mom was terrible and then blindly took her word over his wife's anyway. Why should she trust him to keep his mom cut out of his life for good this time?

OP this is the right way to deal with it, your daughter doesn't get to call you an AH after her behaviour. She's your daughter I'm sure you'll always love her, doesn't mean you have to like her, and honestly with how she's acted again I'd find it hard to trust her at all.

>I'm sure you'll always love her, doesn't mean you have to like her My wife and I have said basically this to our kids before when they've done something we felt was particularly "bad": *We will always love you but right now, we don't like what you've done and are upset.*

I wouldnt even want her to be in my life tbh

Just to note, OP states in a comment that mom paid some one to confess to the affair to husband. So it wasn't "no evidence". It was actually mom saying she saw it and supposed affair partner confessing.

Makes me wish OP lived in North Carolina where they could take advantage of their "alienation of affection" statute for some serious retribution.

There’s a STATUTE about affection??? Please do go on, I’m curious AF.

Last I checked, there are five states in the US that basically have laws about “interfering” in a marriage allowing the “wronged” party to sue. North Carolina is one of them where it’s been successfully used by a spouse that was cheated on to sue the cheating spouse AND the affair partner.

That’s crazy, and very interesting.

That still doesn't excuse either the ex or the daughter for refusing to hear OP's side or her evidence that it was lies.

Oh hell yeah!

I'm so sorry. But yeah they both really suck right now. It was really shitty of your adult daughter to spring this on you. She's not a child anymore, she needed to be honest and instead she knowingly manipulated you just like Grammy gram. Take time for yourself. Like a week at least. At least a therapy session. Because obviously despite them knowing they're wrong. They're not ready to ADMIT THEY FUCKED UP.

It’s a shame things happened this way. But you would never be an asshole for not taking your ex back once you’ve moved on. Sucks for your ex but he should have thought about that before going for a divorce on his mother’s lies and refusing to hear you out. Same for your daughter. Let them mnow that they betrayed you and it will take time for you to think things through. If you do decide to take your ex back, I’d suggest that you condition this on him going completely no contact with his mother. Take plenty of time to figure out whether you want to give it a go again, and whether it will be an issue for you that he had another girlfriend after you. There’s no need to decide immediately, or to let your daughter push this into a quick decision.

Not gonna lie. Your daughter seems like a total POS. Calling you asshole for not being comfortable him being there. Almost seems fake to a degree, could she be this dumb at the age of 21. Also don't get back together with him. He believed his mother whom you went non-contact with. 'she has proof" Well did she or did she not. Where was the evidence.

Take your time. When you last spoke to your daughter she was a 17 yr old child, now she's a 21 yr old women, I know it's hard because you don't want to lose her again but this isn't a misguided child clumsily trying to get her parents back together again, this is a fully grown women who knew it was deceitful to bring her Dad along without your knowledge and did it anyway. With the texts she's working with her Dad to manipulate you into taking him back so they don't feel guilt for the past 4 years. It's ok to set boundaries with your daughter. She's not a child anymore, you can tell her she needs to stay out of your romantic life and focus on rebuilding your mother-daughter relationship. And if she's not ready to do that than maybe this reconciliation should involve family therapy or be paused until she's willing to understand she crossed a line in trying to involve her Dad in this.

This! She is an adult now and needs to realize that what they did was not appropriate. They treated you poorly, cut contact and believed his mother without any proof. Now they want you to forgive and forget. They broke your trust and that takes time to rebuild. Set boundaries with your daughter and explain you’d like to rebuild your relationship with her, but that she needs to respect your limits. I would let her know too that IF you decide to speak to ex, it will be when you are ready and on your terms. She needs to understand that may never happen. Take your time. They hurt you beyond measure and broke the relationships. You move at your pace.

Your daughter had the nerve to call you an a word after what they did. Take your time and think what do you want to do next. Just make sure to pick the one you wouldn't regret in the future.

She called you an asshole for leaving. She is no better than your ex-mil. They made their choice in life now let them live with it

Exactly OPs daughter is scarily behaving like her ex mil

You need to stop thinking of your daughter as a child but as a adult because that is what she is. You need to be bluntly honest with her, while you can't blame 17yr old her for how she acted, manipulating you to a meeting so she can blindside you with your ex, calling you names after you understandably left is in now way how a person meant to be apologizing and rebuilding a relationship should act. That was selfish, manipulative, and immature of her and you should tell her that. You are in your right to never want to be in the same room as you ex, and even if you did want to be in contact with him, it's on YOUR terms not hers. Be blunt to her any say if she wants any attempt to rebuild this relationship, she will need to respect your expectations and requirements. Otherwise, you are going to continue to be separate from both of them.

So two different things to deal with here. First the kid. Set firm boundaries with her. “I want a relationship with you, I’d like to see you and spend time together but that will be between us and us alone. Our bond will have nothing to do with your dad. This is about us two, and not me building a new relationship with him. After what you both put me through repeat that and don’t push it again.” Then for the ex you can maybe write to him. Thank him for finally believing you but let him know you moved on. That you are happy again in life finally. And that you won’t risk that happiness for someone who so easily broke your family and threw you away. If you wanna be nice you can even thank him for being willing to talk but ultimately remind him he left you homeless and used that as a way to keep your kid from you. That you no longer need that kinda of toxic excuse for love in your life and to be well himself. Do not make them a package deal because you deserve better. The kid deserves a chance to prove they don’t still suck. The guy tho? You’re so much better off without him.

> Thank him for finally believing you but let him know you moved on. That you are happy again in life finally. But he doesn't finally believe her, he believes MIL.

This is the kind of post that enrages me on the poster’s behalf. Your ex is a moron and an asshole. I would not get back with him in a million years, because this is a reflection of his character. He goes wherever the path of least resistance is. Good riddance. Your daughter is another matter. I would start by explaining that she hurt you horribly, and that she doesn’t get to dictate the terms of reconciliation. You will take as much time as you need, and you will only entertain a relationship if she agrees to family therapy with you AND never brings up your loser husband again. PLUS I would insist she go no contact with her grandmother. Making her choose between the toxic grandmother and myself would be a hill I’d be willing to die on. Good luck OP.

Your daughter threw you away without any second thoughts and is now calling you a AH for needing some space from your ex? Your daughter is a grown ass woman that should have known better maybe not at 17 but at 21 she sure as fuck should. The audacity of both of them. I would give them the same consideration that they gave you…..zero. You take all the time you need. I know it must be so stressful/difficult for you to do that but you deserve better. They both jumped on your evil MIL bandwagon without any thought about asking you for your side of the story? They can wait. I’m so sorry that you’re going through this. Do not feel that you owe either of those selfish AH the time of day. Remember who they were so willing to believe the worst and they would still have zero problem believing it if she never said anything. Good luck

Ugh - I'm so sorry you're dealing with all of this. After all the work you went through to heal from this absolute betrayal, only to have the people that threw you away want to come back into your life. Your confusion, anger, hurt and sadness are ALL valid feelings here. Your daughter did a shitty thing by bringing your ex- with her - but she's young, and that may be forgivable, in time - only you can make that decision. But your ex-? That man listened to his mother, who he KNEW had it out for you from early in your marriage. He believed someone that he knew had an axe to grind, and he allowed his child to be estranged from her mother. I don't know how forgivable that is - and even if you forgave him, the words of Maya Angelou keep coming to my mind: "When someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time. People know themselves much better than you do. That's why it's important to stop expecting them to be something other than who they are." He didn't trust you back then. He believed someone else to the point of kicking you out and divorcing you, without hearing you out, from what you wrote. That's not respectful. And he didn't reach out to you directly to apologize - he tried to slide in uninvited and unannounced to do so. Where's the trust and trustworthiness? Where's the respect? Where's the empathy? You got this, OP - you healed from the betrayal, and you made your life a happy one after the divorce. Your daughter now knows that you didn't cheat - so maybe that relationship is salvageable. But she has to be told what your boundaries are, and she has to demonstrate that she will respect them. She has to get out from between you two - because your relationship (whatever it ends up being) with your ex- is NOT the responsibility for your child to fix - she needs to leave the two of you to figure out what you'll be to each other in the future. Leaving the restaurant after the shock of seeing your ex- there is understandable - and reasonable. You were NOT the asshole - and your daughter is - again - not considering your position or your feelings. It's a bit of a repeat of how she reacted when you were accused of cheating - and that needs to be addressed if you're going to heal the relationship. But your ex? He has to be told that you're not ready to talk to him. That this can't be "fixed" by his apologies. This wasn't "I broke a plate" - this was "I believed a narcissitic sociopath that I KNEW hated you, and threw you away and alienated your child from you". Sorry doesn't cut it. He has to stay away till YOU want to talk to HIM. And if he can't respect that, then ... well, then you'll have the info you need to make an informed decision about your relationship with him. Good luck, OP - remember that regardless of anything else going on, you got your own back. You are all you need, and you can build a happy life, no matter how any of this turns out.

Your daughter is turning into your former MIL.

My thoughts exactly.

I swear I read almost this exact story recently- except it was the husband kicked out and his jealous brother wanting to steal his wife making up the stories about him cheating.

I remember that one.

Yes I read that one too! They both sound like bad plots for TV movies.

Bingo. It’s almost the same exact storyline. Karma farmers are getting lazy.

Tell your daughter you are willing to work on a relationship with her but that you never want to see your ex again and she is not to attempt to manipulate you again. The next meeting you will have with her is with a family therapist. As for the ex, he made his bed, he never gave you a chance to explain yourself therefore you are returning the favor.

Continue to leave them behind and don’t look back. They are not owed resolution or any apology. They should be feeling remorse. It’s the other way around. You won’t heal chasing them.

Tell your daughter you are only ready to meet her and that eventually you can come around to talk to them both. Maybe be firm about not wanting to start a relationship with you ex since the beginning. It has to be her choice, I wouldn't be surprised if your husband is desperate and using her to get to you. PLEASE ignore the pseudo psychologists in here claiming you should vanish your daughter from your life just bc she called you a bad name. You know that household in which she was raised and the one she spent her last 4 years, while also going through the experience of a divorce. Yes, she is not a kid but not being all there mentally after a divorce I would believe it to be somehow normal for her to no control her emotions. Nothing is ever black and white, you who were fucked by someone's narrative should know that. If you dont give her a *proper* chance you are most likely going to regret it later in life.

How dare your daughter call you an asshole after that. They both should be groveling at your feet begging for forgiveness. Sounds like they still don't want to fully admit they were in the wrong. I am enraged on your behalf.

Okay OP the unfortunate thing is you gotta put your foot down. They don’t get to uproot your life twice and not face consequences. You set the boundaries and they gotta respect it. You make it clear to them that they didn’t even give you chance to defend yourself, or even believe you. They chose to trust someone who had proven time and time again to have a vendetta against you. They have to earn your trust back.

My heart breaks for you. I can never imagine how you are feeling with your daughter. Please reply to her that you need time to calm down as you are overwhelmed with emotions. Let them know that you are the one who is hurt and need time to process IN YOUR OWN TIMELINE as they have NEVER given you a chance in the past. if they really need to talk then they have to wait even if it take 4 years as they have already treated you as garbage. You are not a recycled toy

Hello ex-of-op (And also hello OP, daughter and ex-mil... I wrote separate replies for each of you. ) You are a victim of emotional incest, and your failure to get help in time has led you to irrevocably harm not only yourself and your then wife but also your daughter. Your ex has the good sense to keep you at a safe distance, but I'm worried about your daughter. She is still young. Your abusive mothers sunk her claws into you, and now you are in the early stages of doing the same thing to your daughter. You need to get yourself some help, both for your own sake and for hers. You deserve better than you being like this, and so does she. Please stop ruining your daughter's life. I'm sorry for phrasing this message so strongly. I understand that you do not mean any harm, and I do not think you are truly disturbed. However, you are deeply entrenched in destructive patterns where your abuser also became your greatest role-model. You have finally taken the first big step, getting your abusive mother out of your life. The next step is bigger and more important: Now you need to get your abusive mother out of your head. Don't follow her patterns of selfishness and manipulation. You have already talked your daughter into letting you ruin her best chance to reconcile with her mother. Are you sure you have even cared about your ex or your daughter in all this? Your barin is working overtime to help you get back what is yours, for you to regain the toy your mommy took from you. Yes, your mom has been awfully unfair to you, but you are an adult now. You need to learn how to not be the egocentric, selfish and immature jerk your abusive mother has raised you to be. You need to deprogram yourself. You are going to feel like shit for quite some time. And while it is true that this is mainly your mother's fault, it is also true that blame is beside the point. This is yoru bess to handle. Not your daughter's, not your ex'es, and certainly not your moms. Get professional help, for everyone's sake. Some days will be better than others, and some will be worse. First and formost, you are not allowed to do any self-harm. Please use one of your healthier moments to instruct your daughter that if you ever threathen or attempt to do self-harm of any kind, then it is her duty to NOT enable your bullshit in any way. Please get a therapist right away if you have not already done so. Also make a consultation with psychiatry - just as a preemtive measure if nothing else. You have just broken contact with the abusive creep who has had you in her claws for most of your life. This is a very vulnerable time in your life. Speaking of vulnerable time, be extra careful to stay away from cults. Their recruiters often specialize in targeting emotionally vulnerable people wh have just left a cult or other abusive enviornment. Best wishes

Please text your daughter (at a reasonable hour) something along I was prepared to see you after 4 year but I wasn’t prepared to see your father. It was like when your grandmother blindsided me all those years go. There needs to be a cooling period before you and i continue. I will contact you when I’m ready to continue our discussion. Please respect my boundaries of not involving your father currently. You need to talk to your therapist, friends, family. Not so much about their opinions but about sorting out your thoughts and feelings. Also to help center yourself. It will take a while for your relationship with your daughter to get to a healthy point. Boundaries will need to set down early. Like what happened between you and her is between you and her. Her father won’t factor in. He can’t be there for the meeting. She shouldn’t discuss him at all and she shouldn’t discuss you to him. That she shouldn’t try to pay matchmaker between you and him. To be honest I don’t think you can have a good/decent relationship with the father of your adult child. You might be able to acknowledge his existence without pure hatred or sadness but no real form of friendship/relationship. If after almost two decades (17 years child +40 week pregnant + dating) and cutting contact with his toxic mother he didn’t believe you or listen to your side you will never have it again. Even if you still have feelings for him it won’t be the same the damage has been done. You deserve more then love. You deserve love, trust, honesty, mutual respect and a willingness to try daily to make things work. You deserve a healthy relationship.

So your daughter is 21 now? I would tell her that you want to see her, but will not see her father. That tricking you into seeing him will just hurt your relationship. Also, that you love her but she does need to learn healthy boundaries when it comes to bombarding with texts. I'd just set boundaries.

He made a choice. He needs to be accountable for not trusting you. Now he is no longer someone *you* can trust. It’s not on you to make up for the past for him. He left a happy and loving marriage at the behest of his mother, and just because he’s upset about realizing that does not mean that he is entitled to a place in your new life. I am very sorry about all of this. I really hope that your relationship with your daughter is able to be successfully reestablished, but having a relationship with her does not mean that you must have one with him. **He has shown you exactly who he is, so you should 100% believe the person he showed himself to be.**

Oh sweet child. Never see or talk to that man again. You deserve so much better. Your can open your heart to your daughter but honestly I would do it in a protected space like with a therapist, because she's been through some trauma she needs to heal and you are not equipped to do that for her like a therapist is no matter how much you love her and want to do it.

You need to tell your daughter that them not believing you broke the trust you had in them, she bringing her dad without talking to you broke your trust in her once more. Make it clear to her that she has a lot of work to do to gain your trust and she should stay out of your and her dad's relationship. Tell her she already was cruel to you once and now she is making you suffer again because she chooses to prioritize her dad's feelings over yours and it's not acceptable to you. She needs to know she can't call you names, disrespect you or act out in any way. She is 21, time to act like an adult.

No offense, and I know she’s your daughter; but she seems like a jerk(and I’m being gentle with my words out of respect for you.) She ambushed you and had the guts to call you an asshole for your reaction?? You have every right to be upset and to react any way you want. They both have no say in this case. All they need to do is apologize, shut up, and listen to your terms.

Your ex-MIL is the kind of mother who is too possessive over her son that she views every woman he’s in a relationship with as a threat and resents her. It’s unfortunate her attempts were successful, and that your ex only realized how toxic his mother is after she tried to pull the same shit on his new relationship. Both your ex and daughter have realized they were manipulated into believing a lie, however they need to understand that it’s not realistic to expect things to just go back to how they were 4 years ago. You need time yo rebuild the relationships that were broken. Whenever you feel ready to reply to your daughter, set some boundaries by letting her know that you are willing to speak to her again, however you are not yet comfortable speaking to her father and that it will take time. Also make it clear that if you are to meet with her, you would appreciate if it was just her. Make it very clear you’re not yet in the right place to speak to your ex as it’s been 4 years since you’ve been in contact with them and it’s taken you some time to heal, so it’s not gonna be easy to fix what was broken.

Text or email your daughter, “you are an adult now. You do not have the right to call me an asshole when the two people who I loved more than life betrayed me in the manner you did. I can excuse your choice to be with your dad as you were a child, but you were old enough to make the choice to abandon me. You did not visit me, or help me heal. I did that alone. This broke me more than you will ever understand. I hope for your sake some psychopath doesn’t take away everything from you like mine. This isn’t a reconciliation because I was off in a far away land. This is a betrayal beyond repair. I am open to start the healing path of our relationship slowly. Your father may never see that chance. It’s not something I’m even considering at this point. It took me 4 years of absolute despair to get me to the point of seeing a sliver of joy. That isn’t for nothing. What he did is unforgivable. What you did as well, but again you were a child. My child, and my longing for you outweighs my need to keep myself mentally safe from you two. If you want any hope of us ever moving forward with our relationship do not blindsided me with your father ever again. He is not even going to be considered into this equation and until I’m ready I don’t even want to know anything about him. If you can respect that, we can move forward. If you can’t, I guess have a nice life. I already came to terms I lost you forever. I will just move forward with healing that grief.”

They fuck you over, break your heart, and now your adult daughter had the unmitigated nerve to call you an asshole! Hell no! Gonna take a lifetime to heal from this and you get to set the pace and decide. They are brutal! “ I said sorry, now forgive me”. WTF!

They're still viewing themselves as the wronged party. The wrong for them has gone, so they feel they can go back to 'normal'. They don't care or seem to realise the wrong party was you. So your hurt and feelings are quite clearly irrelevant to them. That lack of concern and thought won't change. Best to keep narcs like that at arms length

You decide what’s best for you. You decide when you are ready or if you want to have a relationship with them. You did nothing wrong and was punished. Don’t let them force you to accept their sorry, they have to understand they hurt you with their actions whether they were manipulated or not. They still hurt you so they don’t get to decide on when you want to talk again. Take your time, be kind to yourself

So because they are burdened with the guilt of never giving you a chance to love them and prove your innocence because they never loved you enough to believe you or ask for proof you’re just supposed to forget your own feelings? I don’t think either of them really care about you at all and don’t want to look like the asshole they are for literally setting their own lives on fire with you over lies and deceit and you’re what supposed to be happy now they see the light? And do they? Your first interaction with your daughter after four years is her bringing your ex who you basically told her not bring and then gas lights you and manipulates you into feeling bad or not staying. It isn’t your responsibility to assuage their guilt now by forgiving them since they know the truth. They happily ignored you and destroyed your life. Agree to meet them in a public setting snd tell them both I owe neither of you the opportunity to love me again. You both happily burned the bridge of us ever being a family the moment you never gave me a chance and sorry will not begin to rebuild a bridge of trust and love that I had for you both. You happily rejected me every day for the past four years and you were happy to move on with your girlfriend go to her I don’t want a man who is easily manipulated by his mother and his daughter to the point where I will never be first or matter enough to you, you showed me four years ago and many times prior to that but I was blinded by my love for you. As I couch surfed and had to rebuild my life from depression and rock bottom you both ignored my existence. How dare you. Happy my vindication finally came and that those lies are now exposed but you are sorely mistaken I owe you anything. Maybe when you are actually sorry snd show me you love me and want to rebuild on MY terms will I let either of you in my life. I wish you the best girl I can’t imagine the pain all of this has caused. ❤️

I don't care that she's your daughter and the bullshit "do anything for your children" mindset. Your daughter and ex are pieces of shit and I'd remain cutting contact with them, especially when she called you an asshole afterwards too. Fuck them.

Did you cheat? Who was the guy at the restaurant? What was the proof? Because if you were faithful. Your ex and his mum have destroyed you. You shouldn’t let that negativity back in your life.

I wouldn’t get back with him. If my husband did that to me I wouldn’t be able to trust him again. I mean what is his mom does something again in the future? I can understand wanting a relationship with your daughter as a mother myself. But that was a low blow to ambush you like that with him there. She is 21 and her calling YOU an asshole for leaving is unfair and undeserved. Not to mention disrespectful. You didn’t do anything wrong. Not then and not now. I would simply explain this to her that you are willing to have a relationship with her but you can’t forgive your ex and want nothing to do with him.

Tbh me personally idk if I’d ever forgive them. The daughter is less at fault because she was a kid but the way she tried to force you and your ex together again as an adult really doesn’t sit right with me. I probably would cut them both off. I’m not a very forgiving person though so this is just how I would handle that.

The daughter sounds like she has too much of her grandmother in her to ever be a decent person.

Sorry but how can he believe his mom when he already knew how manipulate she was and the daughter also come in she hardly knew the grandma and believe her over her mom ? If I was the daughter I wouldn’t just believe a random guy over my mom I would want evidence text , pictures etc… I read the daughter story but I still don’t care her side tbh not to be rude I just want to say do what’s best for you and if you want your daughter back that’s on you just know and let her know it will take time to have a heal relationship as to the ex ( husband ) my opinion will be not to go back to him, he knew how bad his mother and still side with her.. just save your daughter relationship tbh

I may just be a vengeful spirit but I wouldn’t forgive them for a while. Your daughter doesn’t know boundaries and it doesn’t seem like she truly wants to apologize. Don’t get me started on the ex. Don’t even take him back.