This is sneaky-amazing at that money and term. Trustworthy, high floor arms. If we've learned anything over the past 2 years, it's that you go get enough of those guys and then go get 5 more.


Isn't he out for basically the whole 2023 season recovering from Tommy John surgery?


He should be back in July-August.


I feel like the back half of this season is going to be crazy exciting.


Maybe but players returning from TJ very rarely return to their old form in the first year back. It's often a 2 year injury in the sense that they come back in a year and fully regain strength/form by the second year.


Ever since they started putting the Kevlar brace in with the surgery the recovery seems to be a lot faster


Verlander would like a word with you.


I don't think comparing anyone outside of top end elite Aces to Verlander is fair. Dude is a freak


blew me away how fast he came back truly


Looks like a 2 year deal, plus options, so even if he's not back to 100% until next year, he can still help us!


You’re a buzzkill


A lot of it, but that's one less thing to shop for at the deadline and it costs relatively little, I'm assuming *because* of the TJ. Edit: This is exactly the kind of move you can point to when the bullpen shits the bed for a few days and idiots around here lament that "Shatkins did nothing to prepare the bullpen." Which will happen as sure as the fucking sun rises, I assure you.


Yeah but you are taking a bit of a risk because of the unknowns.


It's a risk but having potential post-trade deadline reinforcements basically built in is a pretty big win on its own. The option structure is complicated but seems like they're basically on the hook for only one additional year if it doesn't work out


Luckily, we don’t need him to be good. He’d improve the pen no doubt but he isn’t going to be one of our top arms.


What risk? He is getting like 2 mil this year. Very low risk if any


He is coming back in June/July


I think June is unrealistic.


Most likely


What does "high floor arms" mean?


When you look at a player you may consider two things. 1 - What's the best case scenario for this player? If everything goes right, no injuries, and he meets 100% of his potential - this is the ceiling. It's very much a 'glass all the way full' perspective. 2 - When you consider the floor of a player, it's the other side of that assumption. If things don't go perfect, maybe injury, or maybe just doesn't develop into what you thought they might - the floor is the baseline skill of a player. Consider it more like the 'almost guaranteed' skill level of a player. Now, when you look at these two factors, you could say that the ceiling or floor are either high or low. A player could have a really high ceiling, but maybe a really low floor. This would be 'high risk for high reward' or 'boom or bust' while another player may not have a terribly high ceiling, but a very high floor... This is the 'he's not going to change a franchise by himself, but he's going to be reliable every night and give you what you expect from him' type of player.


Woah! Thanks for the explanation. I will definitely think about when looking at players. ( I was just saying to my wife last night that it's a shame that I am in my late 50's. Baseball is a lifetime of study. I have been following the Jays for about 15 years and seriously into it for about 5. I feel like I have lot of catching up to do. I get lots if eye rolling from my family and coworkers but it's absolutely fascinating:)


You're welcome! There were a couple other descriptions but I felt they left some out... Looking at the Jays, I would consider Vladdy to be high floor, very high ceiling. You know he's going to be good, but he's still hopefully be a superstar. Someone like Gurriel Jr would have a lower floor, maybe a mid ceiling. Mostly just judging expectations on a long term/career long basis. Like so many things, the best time to start into something you love is 20 years ago. The second best time is today. There's a lot to learn, but that's the fun of it all. Enjoy the team! Let's go Jays!


At worst they're not too bad. High ceiling means at best really good.


Guys that maybe aren't elite but will give you reliably above average performance for what they're being paid, and they make their appearances, you hope.


Okay thanks (So basically what we need more of in the pen :)


What a chad signing


I thought Mitch White resembled GigaChad, but he didn't play like a GigaChad. Now we have real Chad on our team.


Assuming those are team options that's an insane steal.


Pretty much is. From my undetststanding it’s a Team option first. Player option if team declines. Team option again if player declines. If he shoves it’s a 3-4 year deal. If he sucks, he will likely pick up the player option and be back for 2024. Low risk high reward.


>it’s a Team option first. Player option if team declines. Team option again if player declines. That's confusing. Are the options at different salary amounts? I have never heard of this scenario before


Ken Rosenthal has the details. Not exactly team options though.


Nice deal. The Yankee fan in r/baseball who has been losing it at every Jays-related development this offseason is coping hard. Are those team, player, or mutual options?


I fucking hate that guy, cites we're not rivals then fucking melts down every time we do anything.


who tf are we talking about here?! edit: are his initials "cj"?




huh. apparently i find him amusing on some level because he's at over 30 upvotes from me!


I’ve had plenty of pleasant interactions with him in the past but this off-season he’s just been hating on us hard. He had several serious comments saying we shouldn’t have signed Brandon Belt because we hadn’t won a playoff series so we shouldn’t be signing veterans. WAT


They're scared. They know their bullpen while excellent has taken a hit, plus relievers can be voodoo. Other than Rodon they haven't improved anything. They are getting older and with age the likes of JD, LeMahieu, Rizzo, Stanton... Etc are going to become less reliable, especially defensively. And let's be honest, Judge isn't hitting 60+ again either so even re-signing him is a downgrade


JD is still their starting 3B and Aaron Hicks and IKF are still going to see tons of innings this year. I would be deflecting my insecurities towards my division rivals too if I was a Yankees fan.


He's the definition of "coping"


Complex lol. After 2023, Jays can pick up a 3-year option. If they decline it, Greene can pick a 1-year option. If he declines that, Jays can pick up a 2-year option.


I've never heard of a deal with those types of options before. Is this common?


Options are somewhat common...*this* is not


LOL. what the hell


I personally enjoy all the Yankees panic articles shitting on each Jays deal as they happen this off season. Insecure much?


It’s so funny when they say that Green is a mid reliever. Yet in 2021 they’d say he’s the best reliever in baseball. Funny how they just flip a 180. Then again, they booed Judge, so can’t say I didn’t expect it.


Well I love this


And I love you


You know how to sweet talk a fella


Awww 🥹 I love you two, too


If he can be 80~90% of the pitcher he was pre TJ surgery, this could be an amazing signing with virtually no risk based on the structure of the contract.


And sometimes these guys come back throwing harder after TJ surgery. He's only 31


His career walk numbers are lower than league average as well so seems he has the stuff that should age well even if his velocity drops a tick. Great signing.


Atkins masterclass


Can I change my off-season grade?




“deal that will guarantee him $8.5MM over two years. He will make $2.25MM in 2023 and then Jays will then have the option of triggering a $27MM option for the next three years, with up to $1MM in bonuses. If they decline, Green’s player option for 2024 will be for $6.25MM with $2MM in bonuses. If he declines that, the Jays can trigger a two-year, $21MM option with $1MM in bonuses. Since player options are considered guaranteed, the $8.5MM figure comes from the 2023 salary and 2024 player option.” -MLB TradeRumors That’s a wildly structured contract, but I like it!


I guess it reads if he is an ace we get him for 4/29. If he sucks or doesn't play it is 2/8.5. If he is ok but doesn't like it here it is 1/2.25 and if and the team are content with it he becomes the 4th or so best reliever for 3/23? I'm not sure how many situations the Jays wouldn't want 4/29 but a chance at 3/23 makes sense.


Atkins masterclass 🐐


Nice. Add Grossman and I’ll officially love the off-season


Same. That's the one more add that would really put the cherry on top.


*Well Bo Bichette can’t walk off me if he’s my teammate* - Chad Green, probably


Assuming he comes back full force in July-August this deal is amazing


r/NYYankees in shambles 🥹




Great signing. Shatkins killing it with depth and potential. . What an off-season. Revamped the entire team. Better defense. Better pitching. Change the stadium to boost a somewhat depleted (already high octane) offense. W, W, W. Imagine late August you could get Ryu and Green heading into crunch time. Juicy.


Holy, and may i add, fucking shit. This is incredible.


I love me some Chad green, but still waiting on another lefty


Really like this. He's been quietly one of the better non-closer relievers in the game for a few years. Coming off the TJS he's probably not going to be available to around mid season, but if he comes back and shows his old form, there are ways to extend the deal.


While I don’t think I’ve openly criticized Atkins, there were moments where I had doubts about our front office. Well, I want to sincerely apologize for ever doubting our front office. *”I owe you an apology. I wasn’t really familiar with your game.”*


Nice. I like it.


chad green was one of those guys for years you thought, it would be great to have him


This is a huge deal. Massive upside, and very little risk.


A fastball /slider guy coming off TJ and who will be 32 before he pitches an inning this season is a risk. He's also been suseptable to homeruns and with the fence moved in now at Rogers, there's no guarantee of success.


At the price of 1/3 Tanner Roarks, that's a low risk deal


At 2.25m (likely for a third of the season) isn’t a terrible pick up. If he does suck, he will pick up the 6 mill option but will be further away from surgery. Lots of incentives too so it’s a good deal for both the player and team.


It’s why he’s 8.5 over 2 years. Good deal IMO


Well he just had tommy j surgery


“there’s actually a complicated option structure that will play out after this year. The Jays will decide on a three-year club option. Should they decline, Green will be able to trigger a player option for 2024. If he declines that, the Jays can then decide on a two-year option with a higher average annual value. Rosenthal adds that Green has already passed his physical.” MLBTraderumors


_cries in Carlos Correa_


Good pickup if he comes back and shoves this season. If not it’s not a huge risk. Low risk, high reward. If Ryu can come back in August and take over for Kikuchi, and Green takes over as a high leverage reliever, it could push the team to an elite level


As someone who’s last name is Green and wants to buy a jersey I am happy.


Career .626 ops vs righties, .669 vs lefties Love this signing


I looked at these numbers and I was thoroughly unimpressed. Then I realised he's a pitcher. Carry on.


When are we allowed to place guys on IL60? I know it's "when spring training starts"... but is that the day WBC pitchers and catchers report? the day other WBC players report? The day other pitchers and catchers report? The day everyone else reports? Or is it all of the above and when the individual player would report? I'm kinda hoping we waffle on making this official like some teams do so we can put him straight on the IL and not risk losing another guy on waivers when DFA'd


my guess is it'l be thornton. doubt anyone grabs him and if they do, oh well.


Not oh well. We're improving at the top end, but losing depth arms. Like Thornton or not, he's a better option than guys below him on the depth chart. And in this case losing an arm for someone who won't be back until June at the earliest weakens our depth overall.


That's fair, but the FO understands our depth better than any of us. If they think it's worth the risk of losing a depth piece for a difference maker at June, the earliest, it probably is, IMO. We have significantly more pitching depth than last year, and there will be some tough decisions to make out of spring training.


Perhaps, but with how close spring training is getting, maybe they can put off making it official. We've seen lots of "x is in agreement with y" this winter, only for it to become official several weeks later. That's what I was originally inquiring about with the dates we're allowed to move guys to IL-60.


> he's a better option than guys below him on the depth chart. you're telling me he's better than the guys below him?! (also who *is* below him?!) he's pretty much the definition of replacement level imho. if our pen gets to that level of fucked that we find ourselves pining for Trent Thornton, we can probably find a similar arm for cash or a A-ball prospect (IF anyone were to even grab him)


Chad Green?! Yes please.....


Holy shit do I love this move!!!!


This is all around stellar. We've got two high-quality trade deadline acquisitions (Ryu and now Green, supposing the timelines stay on track for recovery). This is a really savvy move for a player with tons of AL East experience. Well done Atkins!


Good move. Low risk high reward and hey, at the end of the day it ain't my money.




Clearly a bit of risk involved, but could be a huge boost after the all star game, I like it. Guys usually come back pretty well for TJ surgery these days, and Green is only 31. Nice move.


Is he the one that looked like he had no bones in his body after giving up a big HR?


A really nice addition. If healthy, Green would have been high in demand as a free agent. It's a smart contract for both sides. He has a great track record of success as a reliever and joins a bullpen that needed more punch. Richards' days are likely numbered.


i like it! since he's injured, does he have to go on the 40 man right away, or no? if yes, does Thornton get dropped to make room?


What a literal Chad.


Someone tell me how to feel?!


Had no clue this guy was a free agent, but Chad Green has always been a pain for the Jays to face and had impressive stats so I really like this move. Now all we need I say is a lefty reliever to help out Mayza for those LHP opportunities. If the Barlow trade becomes a reality, I would welcome him too, even if he is RHP.


Good move analyzing the risk however I feel a 4th OF seems more prudent currently . I guess atkins is happy with internal options. Let’s hope springer and KK stay healthy.


Starting to change my tune on the off-season moves now. I would not wanna play this team in October.


all this discussion, multiple threads yet **NOBODY** is asking the important question; Will Chad Green look good in blue? /s


"With Green still recovering from Tommy John surgery at the time of signing, the deal's second year is a conditional player option that Green could exercise if the Blue Jays decline a three-year club option, which would bring the deal through 2026" I like this deal.


better not hang his Chad


A trade deadline acquisition in January. I like this.