T O P

Under The (Halloween) Lights: Trevenant and Gourgeist [PvP Analysis]

Under The (Halloween) Lights: Trevenant and Gourgeist [PvP Analysis]

Bahrum88

God bless you and your hard work I love reading these


JRE47

I'll be honest: I had a REALLY rough GBL week and my psyche was pretty fragile halfway through writing this... one reason it took a while. When I have a rough spell as a player, I start questioning what the heck I am thinking trying to give OTHER players any kind of useful advice. But as I'm always reminded, people look forward to it and somehow glean useful info out of it, despite the failings of the writer behind it. And that keeps me going. Glad you enjoy it too, buddy. Cheers!


Zanmorn

Maybe I’m just being a busybody here, but perhaps this will help you if you again question your credentials for writing an article: your ability to produce results has little relevance on your ability to advise others. To elaborate, as long as you understand why you are failing and know how to (theoretically) improve, you’re qualified to advise others. There are any number of reasons to fail—such as making poor decisions under pressure, an inability to remember crucial info, making gambles which don’t pay off, or using a pet team which isn’t ideal—but those failures don’t mean you don’t have the knowledge required to succeed. And since writing is solely about sharing your knowledge, the failures become irrelevant. The roles you are playing are similar to those of an athlete and a coach. When playing, you are the athlete, and while writing you take on the role of the coach. Many world-class athletes have coaches who could never do what the athlete does, but the coach still provides valuable information to the athlete, without which the athlete would never have succeeded. I cannot comment on your abilities in the athlete role, but rest assured, your abilities in the coach role are top notch.


dstingrayj

The coach versus player analogy is spot on!!! Actual GBL gameplay mechanics require much more than just biblical knowledge of mons.


pandaman467

You are THE most valuable redditor on both Silph subreddits. Don’t ever doubt yourself. You are amazing.


Remy_Lezar

GBL was rough on me too; you’re not alone haha.


JRE47

I said it [during my podcast interview last week](https://www.listennotes.com/podcasts/the-wailordz-a/mudshot-makes-everything-0QpiM4_U8ly): GBL is a very fickle mistress. It'll make you feel like a million bucks and then like the dumbest creature on the planet... in consecutive sets! Maddening, but we keep coming back for more haha


Lord_Emperor

> we keep coming back for more haha IDK but I like to minimize the emotional abuse I let games inflict on me. Been playing New World this week and completely neglecting Pokemon Go and it's great. Really great.


kiwidesign

Much love pal!


Stogoe

I can definitely foresee a Silph Arena themed cup that bans Trevenant for being too dominant, but that lets Gourgeist come to play. Plus there's always fire blast (or an Astonish buff) to differentiate Gourgeist. I like having one of everything on hand just in case, so I'm excited to go chase pumpkins alongside the tree stumps. Also really glad to know that the more common Average size is probably the way to go.


JRE47

And that's a good point... now being lucky enough to be ON the Silph Arena Meta Team this year 😁, I can absolutely see that sort of scenario happening. I can also see Trevor becoming popular enough to end up on the banned list in future GBL Remix formats and Gourgeist being the best (allowed) alternative. It's worth getting a few good pumpkins for that eventuality. Just in case.


Wunyco

Astonish buff? I'll be astonished if they finally get around to it. Amongst other things, Runerigus was shafted :/ Ghost-ground type in the Halloween cup would have a core spot in the meta if it was any good.. but Golurk has bad stats and mud slap, and Runerigus was cursed with astonish.


UW_Unknown_Warrior

inb4 Niantic replaces Trev's Shadow Claw with Hex the day before it goes live.


JRE47

"Don't you put that evil on me, Ricky Bobby!"


Axume4

Thank you so much for this! This one is especially helpful with all the different pumpkin sizes. It looks like Trev is the recommendation and Gourgiest as more of a spice pick. I might get one of each and run both :p. There are times when I wish Hex had higher energy generation than SC. Just for the sake of variety because so many things learn both. I don’t really like having a strictly better move that invalidates all others of its type.


FatherOfTwoGreatKids

Awesome write-up. Looking forward to adding a Trev to the mix. Quick question about sludge bomb Darkrai: I don’t have a Darkrai yet, and since sludge bomb doesn’t do much, should I just TM it away?


JRE47

Yes, I would. If you're going to use it all in PvP, you surely want Dark Pulse and Focus Blast, or MAYBE Shadow Ball somewhere in that mix. But never Sludge Bomb. And in PvE... no, Sludge Bomb does nothing for you. Dark Pulse all the way.


Wunyco

I was kind of hoping we might get a marginal Zacian counter, who is stomping all over the ML meta at the moment. Nope 😂


FatherOfTwoGreatKids

Thanks for the quick reply! My guess is that it will be mostly a PVE mon for me.


JRE47

Then definitely Dark Pulse (or perhaps Shadow Ball) should be all you need... don't even need a second charge move if you'll never use it in PvP. You don't want to be using Darkrai as a Poison attacker.


ptmcmahon

If you are a hoarder grab a bunch… but TM it away on the best ones for raids.


Eastern-Ad1687

Thanks for the analysis. May god bless you, always. <3


RyanMind

Thank you for this gift.


OpusL

Jellicent is another Ghost resisting water, not only the Giratinas


JRE47

I KNEW I was forgetting one! Good catch, thanks.


Shartun

thats one of the reasons I built an app for that, I always estimated wrong which type has more weaknesses in a silph meta xD If you wanna try I'd be honored, Android Go Dexicon, select the type and/or cup and search for -water btw. free, no ads, works offline


Asleep-Voice-9429

These are great. I read them all and look forward to your analysis of new mons effect on the meta. Thank you for what I can only assume is painstaking work.


JRE47

You are most welcome. 😊 Believe it or not, MOST of the time, I legitimately enjoy doing it. It can feel like a chore sometimes, but digging in and finding the intricate details of what's good, what's bad, and what MAKES them that way is still enjoyable three years and well over 250 articles in.


Asleep-Voice-9429

Well your work doesn't go unnoticed. As someone who can't yet decipher all those pvp sites with any level of competency, I rely on your work to tell me what to focus my attention on. For pvp relevance at least.


DeepGreenSeaXX

Just wondering - is either Phantump or Pumpkaboo any good for little league?


JRE47

Neither have Hex nor Shadow Claw, so no. I did check anyway but they're both pretty meh.


kevindegruyne

Pumpkaboo no good in element cup even with razor leaf? I saw a lot of Litwick in element cup, definitely not the best stats but body slam resistance is valuable.


NordKettle

Great as always. Last time I commented in a thread of yours was about going all in on Oshawott CD because I lacked a Swampert with Hydro Cannon. I GOT THE #1.:-) Been having trouble with both my data plan and charging port so now it's all in the last days of this event to try to get a great Trevenant and a great Gourgeist. It sure looks like they'll be worthwhile and I guess they might be rare for a (good) while. Thanks!


JRE47

Congrats on the #1! Jelly. Good luck on the hunt this time!


donethemath

These analysis are absolutely awesome. I'm not super plugged into the game anymore, but I perk up when I see there is something I might want in the future. ~~When does the Ghoulihs Pals part of the event start?~~ Edit: Looked it up, October 22nd.


ChexSway

if Trev ever gets banned, maybe during GL Remix, would Gourgeist be a decent replacement? or is it just not good enough?


JRE47

Gourgeist is viable as a Trevenant replacement in any format where Trev is excluded, yes. It's not *as* good, but it's still competitive.


hifans808

Wow thought the pumpkin would have more impact based on initial stats. Thanks again for the guidance!


JRE47

It's really NOT bad, just overshadowed by something that happens to be releasing at the same time.


itslikecrackyo

Hola! 🙋🏻‍♂️ Question about Trevor IV’s. What’s the IV spread for a rank 1 for UL premier classic? Or we just better off with a hundo?


JRE47

Rank 1 for non-XL (Level 40) actually is the 10-15-15 I used as an example in the article. Top five are: 10-15-15 9-15-15 10-14-15 10-15-14 13-15-15 A hundo is Rank 150 and hits only 2486 CP (at Level 38)... not ideal.


itslikecrackyo

Yeee right on, can’t wait to hunt then. Thanks again for the usual awesome write up!


Rivalfox

Awesome write up and thank you!! Can you please explain when one would decide to level up Trev with XL candy instead of regular? I just hit level 40 and it hasn't been made clear to me yet why you would use xl if you can get it to cp2500 without XPand what the difference is.


ellyse99

In general, at a higher level a pokemon will have more bulk and stat product (someone please correct me if I’m wrong). So the XL version is stronger than the non-XL one.


Foggy_Night221C

Thanks man. Always good to read the articles!


Empoleon_Master

Deities bless your hard work, you absolute madlad


milo4206

Color me intrigued with using Razor Leaf Gourgeist in a grasshole. It'll hard counter fighting types really well, obviously mows down waters, and does ok vs Nidoqueen, unlike most grasses. And of course that shadow ball will be a nice nuke option if you can get it set up for a nice farm.


HaV0C

Amazing analysis as usual. Thanks for doing this all the time.


winternova99

one mistake here u/JRE47 4-14-11 (1498 CP at Level 43.5) Everything else is great as always :)) edit : No mistake here just my confuse between Azu and Trev


JRE47

Thanks! Actually that's correct... [4-14-11 is the default Azumarill IVs](https://pvpoke.com/battle/1500/azumarill/trevenant-22-0-15-15-4-4-1-0/11/0-2-1/0-2-3) in PvPoke.


winternova99

i confuse it for Trev IV. So sorry for the mistake


JRE47

No no, it's fine! No apologies necessary. I appreciate you trying to make sure it's all accurate. Thanks!


Sinrion

But when we get a real TL;DR? Aka, get Trev for GL and as a cheaper UL Cofagrigus, maybe get Gour if you like it, it's not as great tho. I like your write ups (even tho, far too much for my liking sometimes), but man the TL;DR's are a whole write up on their own and never a real TL;DR :s


JRE47

Get Trevenant in GL and UL. Better than Cofagrigus in both and much cheaper in UL. Gourgeist OK but worse. Not worth grind. Sludge Bomb Darkrai lolz git gud


Sinrion

This, this I like! Hope you didn't take it personally tho, I really enjoy the long breakdowns on Mons I'm interested in (Eevee Commday was superb), but even then it's sometimes just a bit too much, be it in the normal part or the TL;DR.


spoofrice11

I agree. I feel the the TL;DRs are long. Can't image actually reading the whole story just to see if a Pokemon is useful.


Wranglher

I would like to complete your comparison between R1 XL Trev vs R1 Lvl40 Trev: R1 XL Trev has these wins over R1 Lvl40 Trev in the XL Meta: 0s: Jelli, Muk, Syl, Gary 1s: Glisc, Steelix, Roserade 2s: Glisc, Skarm, Typlo, Slur, Cro, Syl, A9Tc


Mvewtcc

does trevenant have size different too?


JRE47

So far, that mechanic is only being used for Pumpkaboo/Gourgeist. So far.


Thiophen

Any core meta suggestions using Trevenant? I am not a super good great league player. I have many main-stays for the great league available, often with high PVP ranks, including azumarill, skarmory, altaria, galarian stunfisk, jellicent, alolan marowak, wigglytuff and more. However, most likely limited by my own skill, I never manage to get a rating higher than 2300. Any team suggestions would be greatly appreciated! Love your work!


septacle

Hi I have a question. You seem to imply that on default sim Azu can win Trev, but on pvpoke, even in the link you provided ([https://pvpoke.com/battle/multi/1500/custom/trevenant/11/0-2-0/2-1/great](https://pvpoke.com/battle/multi/1500/custom/trevenant/11/0-2-0/2-1/great)) it's not quite true. Did pvpoke changed it's default iv?


JRE47

I believe they did... I now see it listed a win for Trev more often. Not sure if he slightly tweaked the timing or default IVs, but Trev usually seems to have the edge now, which I agree with!


septacle

Thanks!


jgramm1989

OK so I don’t know if people are still commenting on your analysis which is great as always but as of right now be home as trevenant is ranked #2 on pvpoke in ultra league and great league. Crazy considering the numbers you have for an hour and your study of the different sizes and everything I am a little baffled as to why it’s ranked so high


JRE47

Well, I did *kinda* see that coming with Trevenant and tried to properly hype it up here. The different sizes and all are for Gourgeist, who isn't ranked nearly that high and I was much less tepid about in the article. That all said... I don't think Trevor is quite THAT meta defining. Remember when Galvantula hit the meta and it shook things up? It was a big freaking deal for a week or two but the meta reshaped a little around it and then settled into something not too terribly different from what it was pre-Galv. I think Trevor will create a similar short term ripple and then things will settle down with Trevor just being another part of a large whole. But we'll see!


jgramm1989

I’m not saying you didn’t put any hype behind Trevor but yes after reading the stats analysis to see it number two, I was shocked. Top 100 top 50 sure but definitely not top five. I think unless you have two tank like options to go with it I don’t think it’s going to be as good. But like you said we shall definitely amd again thanks for the great analysis I always look forward to them!


David3Ly

/u/JRE47 what is your thoughts on a Trevenant - Jellicent Line up for UL?


ptmcmahon

I assume the UL premier classic fighters should be Scrafty and Obstagoon? :)


Mystic39

It's psychics, ghosts and fighters that he was saying it wins against, so Gengar was included as an exception as ghost that it doesn't beat, not a fighter, and Obstagoon doesn't get included since it just uses fighting moves but isn't a fighter.


ptmcmahon

Hmm… ok. Probably just needed a comma for clarity then :)