They should just take the gun from the M1299 and put it on this. Never should have even been canceled

Out of curiosity, why was it cancelled?

The US was in full "we are only ever going to fight small wars now" mode, so the Army wanted something like NLOS-C, which could fit in a C-130, instead of a conventional 155mm SPG with things like "armor." Also, Crusader was gold plated to hell. It had a lot of incredibly expensive features (like a water-cooled main gun! And a completely unmanned turret! And a turbine engine!) that weren't necessary and drove the cost way up.

wouldn't a water cooled gun help with barrel life tho?

The question is how much of a practical impact that makes.

Yes

No. Just completely no.

The water cooling was there to improve the rate of fire

Life of the barrel, no not really. Keeping the barrel cool to be able to increase rate of fir per minute… yes.

No. Barrel life is determined by the velocity of the projectile and the chemical interactions inside the gun. Watercooling would make it more accurate, but the life would be unaffected.

Things begin to wear faster when hot typically. ​ But water cooling would indeed help accuracy as the barrel would warp less

Look, if you don't know how erosion works in a gun tube, just say it. The extremely high temperatures of the propellant are not the same as the heat absorbed by the barrel. The barrel does not 'warp' Warping is a permanent change, the barrel will return to it's shape when it cools. The jacket is ONLY to improve accuracy by keeping the barrel temperature, and thus the thermal bending, consistent while firing. If you don't know, don't say something.

Don't know what your problem is, but yes the use of the word warping was incorrect, my apology's. ​ However you pretty obviously knew what I actually meant as you go on the mention the thermal bending which I incorrectly referred to as "warping"

Problem is that you kept talking after you were told you were wrong. Yes, I speak dumbass civilian. I know what you meant, even when you are wrong.

I'd prefer being a dumbass civilian than to devolve into whatever you are.

Good news, you are a dumbass civilian. Stay to it an leave the military stuff to the professionals, okay kiddo?

Sir thank you for your service sir

No one wants your insincere thanks.

There was zero need to be such a dick to that guy.

Yes, there was. Doubling down on stupid when you've been told you're wrong means you need the verbal equivalent of a slap upside the head.

looks like someone got hit by daddy and is proud of it.

No, it's dealing with people who don't know what they're talking about. Only way to get them to listen is to embarass them to silence.

Yes. Sort of. No. Some warship guns like that railgun ( I cant remember if it's General Atomics or the other contestant) and Oto Melara 76mm and 127mm are water-cooled. It is inherently better ( like how the Type 055 has water cooling system, or refer to water-cooled PCs). Water cooling helps with cooling, and thus, helping the barrel stays stable instead of wobbling around. So normally it wouldn't really help much with barrel life, but when you are doing saturation fire ( in case of Crusader, spamming SADARMs into Fulda), water cooling helps with barrel life in the sense that the barrel don't just break off like that pick of an AS-90 months ago.

Laser igniter too

I wish they had been able to make the liquid propellants work

I have to think it deals with cost, and since they already had the M109 it’s easier to upgrade that than to make a new vehicle

>In early May 2002, Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld canceled the US$11 billion program because he considered it neither mobile nor precise enough.

Were secretaries of defense always that powerful where they can just cancel a military program easily? Because it seems now it's a tough battle to just retire some planes with Congress kicking and screaming.

The lessons of Operation Enduring Freedom led to him recommending to Congress to cancel the project in favor of GPS guided ammunition for all 155 mm Howitzers, GPS guidance and accuracy upgrades for the M270 as well as using part of the funding for development of the Excalibur round and procurement of HIMARS.

Killing a new program in prototype stage is much, much easier than a fielded system, especially aircraft.

That's utter BS. Crusader was miles ahead of Paladin. It got cancelled because of the other hundreds of program that got cancelled- budget cuts and post-Cold war mentality. It's like MBT-70 where everything was good except for the gun and then Vietnam came in and ruined it all.

You're right. Compared to an M109, the Crusader was way more advanced, but he meant it in a more general way. Precision of guided munitions (Excalibur and GMLRS) and the mobility of HIMARS (Truck Chassis and transport by C-130) exceed the abilities of the Crusader. This is why funding was to be relocated on these projects.

It’s the PzH 2000 on steroids basically. Or the PzH is a toned down Crusader depending on how you look at it.

Always said as soon as we Canceled Crusader, we should have pivoted to licensed production of PZH 2000s in the United States

PzH 2000 >>>>> Crusader

No. Crusader was much more advanced. PzH2000 still has a manual loader for the propellant charge, Crusader had an unmanned turret with a total crew of three. It's more like a gold-plated version of Donar.

Maybe, but which one got built?

PzH 2000, of course. Crusader was too ahead of its time.

Right. Your logic would be like saying, well the F-23 was a better fighter….

F-23 wasn't a better fighter. They would've either had to use an insane vertical internal missile magazine or completely rearrange the aircraft to get a useful weapons load aboard it. It was not ahead of its time, it was the worse choice at the time. We're in 2023 and only now are vehicles with features first pioneered on Crusader becoming prevalent- RCH-155, K9A2, Koalitsya -SV, etc.

Both, in some way. The Crusader has at least one prototype whilst several hundred PzHs were built. A small scale production is still running to this day with plans to license build them in Ukraine in the future.

>gold-plated version of Donar. Lol this cope

Where is the turbine engine and water-cooled main armament on Donar?

Only because it actually exists

I know they already had the M109 and it was determined to be not needed. But damn I wish they would have put it into production.

You can't fool me, this is a Shadowsword prototype

Too small and too few turrets

At least it will be available as a scale model. Link: https://www.hlj.com/1-35-scale-xm2001-crusader-sph-ilk63546

I really like this type of muzzle brake, sadly this tank didnt make it past the testing phase.

This at the outdoor Museum at Fort Sill?

Yup, they also have an atomic Annie there too

Tracking, was stationed there for a little lol. Wish I could’ve gotten into the ADA museum.

has a modernized Nashorn vibe about it.

Ah…Ft Sill….where Crusader slumbers.

Looks like a high tech Nashorn

The calibre of that howitzer must be ridiculous

No, it's a 155mm

That's not caliber. That's bore diameter

Bore diameter is caliber. Barrel length is measured as a function of calibers.

No. In artillery and cannon, Bore diameter is...bore diameter. Caliber is the length of the tube as a function of the diameter. Please go do basic research into your terms.

Using "caliber" for bore to barrel length ratio only applies to naval gunnery, which is pretty much irrelevant these days. In all other use related to guns, "caliber" refers to the inner bore diameter. Given that you're in /r/TankPorn, not /r/BattleshipPorn, you are wrong by virtue of context.

It is used for tanks and artillery though. The Rheinmetall Rh-120 used on the Leopard 2 is the L/44, and later L/55, named such because it is 44 calibers long. M109’s gun is noted as being a 155mm 39 caliber. I believe after a certain bore diameter, caliber swaps over to being used for length.

CORRECT. It swaps at 1 inch or approximately 25mm.

> Using "caliber" for bore to barrel length ratio only applies to naval gunnery Which also applies to tanks as they inherited naval terminology. Caliber refering to the length of the gun tube was atleast still present during WW2. I can't confirm, but I wouldn't be surprised if it isn't still used today, if less common. It's still a term used by historians atleast. /u/Past_Perspective_811 is still wrong on account of caliber **also** (clearly) referring to bore diameter *too*.

WRONG. Bore diameter above 1" is expressed in the diameter. Caliber below that is expressed ONLY in the decimal inches of the diameter. Such as ".50 caliber", ".22 caliber". ".30 Caliber". There is no "1 caliber". As such, anything over 1 inch is expressed by the diameter of the round, "25mm", "3 inch", "120mm". Caliber in these barrels is the function of length to diameter.

> is expressed in the diameter. Which is called "caliber"... The reason ".50 cal" is called that is because the caliber (bore diameter) of the round is .5 inches. "Caliber" isn't a unit of length. It is expressed in units of lengths (often millimeter or inches), but the measurement itself is called caliber. ~~There are *two* meanings to the word. The same word. Homonyms aren't uncommon you know. I'm sure the origin of either meaning has some dumb connection to the other.~~ It is correct to say that the caliber of the L7 is 105mm, the same way it is correct to say that the L7 is 52 calibers long. ~~In the same way I can use my *bat* to *bat* a *bat*.~~ Hell I'm not even sure they are actual homonyms. The length of a gun tube is expressed as being x calibers long. >the L7 is 52 calibers long The word "caliber" in that sentence refers to the caliber (bore diameter) of the gun itself and not the length measurment. Only by shortening the sentence (removing "long") is the word "caliber" used to imply the length of the gun tube instead. But I don't think the meaning of the word caliber changes, it's just that length is the implied measurement.

Bore diameter as caliber is true ONLY in weapons under 1 inch- small arms. Anything larger is just expressed as the bore diameter. It is 100% INCORRECT to say "105 mm caliber" because in artillery, caliber means one thing, and that is the length of the tube as a function of the diameter of the bore. You again are wrong in your last paragraph. The word caliber ONLY refers to the length, not the bore, especially when talking of the L7. The word has two meanings: referring to the bore diameter in small arms and the length in cannon artillery. You're applying your civilian knowledge of small arms and what you think you know to a field that you are ignorant of. Please, go do basic research into this. The stupid is starting to hurt.

WRONG. Bore diameter above 1" is expressed in the diameter. Caliber below that is expressed ONLY in the decimal inches of the diameter. Such as ".50 caliber", ".22 caliber". ".30 Caliber". There is no "1 caliber". As such, anything over 1 inch is expressed by the diameter of the round, "25mm", "3 inch", "120mm". Caliber in these barrels is the function of length to diameter. You are absolutely wrong.

The water jacket just makes the barrel look thick.

Does look like a thicc boi doesn't it!

54 caliber vs. the 39 caliber on the Paladin.

Artillery officers love this. The commander of the corresponding forward support company however……..