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This is what happens when everything becomes a hot shot swerve
No explanation as to why Regal turned on Mox. MJF was a heel who was gifted a chip for his Full Gear main event by the Firm, a group of low mid carders, after throwing a public temper tantrum, after no showing a real paid meet & greet & a lackluster blow off with Wardlow - MJF then teases a babyface turn, takes a chokeslam
though a table - to then have Regal turn on Mox at Full Gear with the same MJF ending we have seen for 3+ years and then 2 weeks later MJF turns again on Regal who never said a word during that segment - i lost count at face/heel turns between MJF & Regal now
This reads like a Vince Russo WCW 1999 angle.
AEW had the receipt for success in 2019 - 2021. Once TK bought ROH, everything just feels like a mess on TV - 13 titles, random matches, zero builds to majority of the matches, angles get shelved arbitrarily, injuries or no injuries, acts just left off TV for months at a time.
I have no idea of any feuds or angles except the never ending JAS - BCC which is going into its 9th month
Very easy to see why viewers are tuning out. Also did anyone see that venue. That arena looked empty.
This, better yet replace Dark with RoH on that YouTube spot, clean the house of those unused talent or move them RoH and convert it into an NXT developmental promotion.
They could easily pick up where NWA Powerrrr left off with this idea. Fuck, I'd actually tune in to watch just for the vastly different vibes of that show. Just concentrate all the technical workrate stuff in ROH and make it almost like a pit fighter classic set, vs. AEW Dark (which feels more like, "the audience isn't here yet, let's warm up in the ring")
That's the thing, RoH has not been portrayed as any different from AEW, it's just guys that AEW doesn't have a role for.
Like...make the matches different my guy, in ANY way. Pure rules, just...anything different.
>Why can't ROH just be a YouTube show? Replace Dark or Elevation with it.
Money. Tony bought ROH for millions of dollars for almost no reason other than nostalgia and now is trying to make his money back
The RoH stuff absolutely kills my interest. I have no desire to watch Jericho as RoH champ. Even though I love Joe, I just can't care. I'm trying to watch AEW, not RoH.
A thread earlier about why did Regal turn on Moxley? Has 0 upvotes with everybody claiming it makes perfect sense and you are dumb and need to be spoonfed like WWE if you don't understand Regal's motivations.
it feels almost blasphemous to compare any modern day show to russo’s WCW, but there’s honestly a ton in common with 2022 AEW
i don’t think current AEW is as outright BAD as 2000 WCW, but it feels like every big booking decision is based on subverting the expectations of internet fans rather than logical story progression and character development, whether it’s with
a) some big swerve that seems to exist for the sake of being a swerve (garcia turning on danielson, hayter rejoining britt, luchasaurus rejoining christian)
b) by having every other story be some meta commentary on online drama like the undying matt hardy “contract tampering” thing, or MJF’s bidding war shtick, jade & bow wow or even—although i think it worked in this case—the elite/DT match in chicago.
i don’t think there’s anything wrong with knowing your audience is smarkier and incorporating more NJPW/indy stuff! but this constant thing where dirtsheet rumors are the skeleton key to understanding on screen stories is the same shit russo would do by having bischoff reference sid’s scissors, or brad armstrong doing a road dogg cosplay
my boss used this analogy with me the other day and I think it kinda applies.
Instead of making a meal with 20 different components, a good chef knows how to use the exact amount of ingredients.
To me, AEW’s “exact amount of ingredients” we’re having four titles. Each title felt important and unique, title matches didn’t happen every week so felt kinda special, etc.
Nowadays you can put a world title match on Rampage and barely anyone cares because there’s rarely a card without one of the 15 titles on the line and because everyone knows damn well the title isn’t changing hands on Rampage.
There’s too much going on all at once for me to get emotionally invested in it all.
And even if you try to be invested, the story will suddenly stop or the wrestlers will disappear for 2 months at least. In the meantime JAS vs BCC will go on and on.
I think a lot of issues could be solved by eliminating half of their roster. they need to have a core roster of guys ( and gals) that they can feature on the regular without needing to take these 2 month breaks. It's like any TV show. Imagine on Seinfeld if George or Kramer shows up in one episode only to never be seen again until 2 months later. How the fuck do they expect you to care about these characters?
It's kinda crazy how easy it is to pintpoint every single issue with AEW right now:
1) JAS/BCC going on for too long
2) The ROH midcard titles (although I think Joe winning the TNT belt was a way of unifying belts as to not make ROH look weak in comparison)
3) The decision to highlight ROH over AEW (at least, with the amount of time dedicated to it)
4) Always the amount of time given to women's wrestling
5) Always the amount of time given to the -wrong- women's wrestlers
6) Forgetting beloved and over wrestlers like Hook, Miro, Wardlod to some extent, etc.
7) Highlighting people no one asked to be highlighted....Double J
I'm sure there's more, but for such a "smark" that Tony is, and definitely someone who reads online criticism, his digging of his heels into the wrong decision sounds just like pure stubborness at this point, and AEW is suffering baaaad because of it.
That makes it even more frustrating. A lot of folks saw these problems emerging a year ago (Talent being cooled off quickly) or even earlier (Mistreatment of womens division). But TK is so damn stubborn, they keep on with old habits while also introducing new problems (ROH).
It seems that whoevers hot is nerfed.
Hangman wins stuff and then fights nobodies (and Adam Cole) when defending the title.
Wardlow turns face and wins gold and then fights 70 security guards.
Danielson faces Omega and Hangman and has bangers, and then he becomes a tweener for some unexplainable reason.
Kingston has his best match VS Jericho, and then after an insane BCC V JAS hot start, totally disappears (sometimes suspended) and the best talker in the company after Punk can't get more than 30 seconds on TV.
8 Star FTR. Other promotions would kill to have them. Appears on TV for multi-man tags or to fight Top Flight for some reason.
This is a problem when a billionaire wants to play booker rather than owner.
Not having him on the first show after he won the title was as bad of a first step as you could’ve had. You got people buzzing after he won the title and you make them wait 10 days instead of 3 days to hear from him? Absolute insanity
I remember around Forbidden Door, AEW was struggling with injuries and the build that fans took to proclaiming the post-Forbidden Door Dynamite as a reset.
Then nothing much changed, but the roster was getting healthier so fans started proclaiming All Out as a reset.
Then stuff exploded and fans proclaimed Full Gear as a reset.
Things don't seem to have changed since, but I'm sure Revolution will be considered a "reset for 2023" or something.
I remember a post in this sub claiming Tony Kahn said he was going to reset the women's division.
Everything else seems to be fans projecting their wants.
What do you do when you have a.)the guy who sold out the united center on a rumour of his appearance, and b.)perhaps the most over guy in wrestling who main evented wrestlemania?
Well obviously you put them in stupid programs instead of making them work together to grow your audience.
You know, I can understand being upset with Punk.
I think it's fuckin' silly, because Punk clearly had a gripe, because it's apparent people still in the company refuse to take TK's word for it, that Punk had nothing to do with Cabana's job status.
But what the fuck are they doing with Bryan Danielson? He's a frickin' megastar, and was doing great shit this time last year, was on the edge of starting an epic heel run... then they just pair him with Moxley for BCC and halt all of his singles progress, and then the most significant thing he's done since has been fighting for Danny Garcia's honor, or something, I don't know, it was stupid.
I’m saying it over and over again: Danielson probably has some level of creative control, and his idea of creative control is booking himself in 30 minute long matches again nobodies so he can bleed, do a headbutt and lose. And Khan allows him to do it.
He should’ve been world champion.
Why is Bryan having 20 min matches with a tag wrestler? I get FTR is popular but it's a waste of both parties. I'm sure TK is paying a hefty bill for Bryan, he should keep him in the top spots regardless of whether or not Bryan wants that.
I think the way they were using Punk was fine. But what has happened to Danielson is criminal. I don't care if he himself doesn't want to be world champion, but you can't take one of the best wrestlers in the world and book him like a complete JAG.
This whole sub hated me for suggesting Punk and Bryan and even Cole all work together when they came in around the same time. Could have even thrown in Keith Lee (who I think came in around that time), had Andrade turn against AEW, had Malakai Black do the same.
AEW’s biggest weakness sometimes is its current fanbase. They are so damn stubborn and closed-minded. If it’s something Tony Khan is not currently doing, they don’t want to hear it and shut down any discussion. It’s aggravating.
MJF’s “fucking mark” promo touched on this a lot. Fans will have an opinion, change their minds two weeks later, then pretend that was always their opinion.
When MJF was pissed off at Tony people acted like was too big for his boots for wanting to get paid. He came back and now he’s a generational superstar again.
Yeah, it's funny seeing how everyone on this subreddit "always hated him", but when you look at the most upvoted posts on this subreddit, his return is number 3.
It’s funny, because this episode addressed a lot of the surface level complaints that were coming from fans. There was no JAS vs BCC, no ROH, the Elite were back, and Danielson wrestled somebody not related to Jericho. Yet people still aren’t interested.
There’s two issues with Dynamite currently. The first is that it doesn’t matter. Tony Khan saves too much for his PPVs and it’s getting to the point now that a regular Dynamite no longer feels like must see tv. We basically had MJF tell us as much in his promo this week. The Full Gear buildup was horrendous, as it was basically just AEW kicking a can down the road until they could progress stories on PPV.
The second is the lack of interesting long term stories. That was always the draw of AEW, but now WWE has more interesting character development with stuff like the Bloodline and Austin Theory. If the only draw you have over the WWE is independent style wrestling, then eventually you’ll have the viewership of an independent wrestling company.
I think it's the "no, not like that" meme. A bit of a monkey paw situation.
No JAS vs BCC... until next week. Storylines still stuck there.
The Elite were back... doing the same match for the 3rd time.
Danielson wrestled somebody not related to Jericho... against Dax, who never wins singles matches.
I want to say that this has been a gut-check of a year for AEW, but I also feel like that would be an understatement.
The honeymoon phase is long gone.
The honeymoon period of this promotion has now past and to see the audience of it remain stagnant during this whole time its been up is definitely something to worry about.
First “non holiday eve” appearance of The Elite in months as well. Based on this sub, you’d think they were the most popular guys in the company but the data doesn’t reflect it
I don’t like that the recent ratings get pinned on one thing it is a multitude of things coming together, Punk being gone, a series of lackluster shows, straight up bad programs up and down the card
in regards to the programs specifically there’s so much less creativity and overall effort than before
AEW has little to no stories.
And by stories, I mean things that have been brewing for a long time, issues, etc.
Mox and MJF almost had something, but now who knows what's up with Regal, and in an effort to hold off that grudge match, here is Page randomly.
Some of the best characters aren't on TV - Kingston, FTR. And too many other people, have no other characters beyond 1 trait + I did this cool thing a couple months ago.
Tony is the momentum killer besides the obvious people, like yeah FTR/Wardlow...but House of Black debuts randomly...why? *Then where tf was House of Black this week?!*
AEW has good wrestling, even great wrestling...so does everyone else.
**It's common sense, then, if AEW doesn't give people a reason to tune in and *care* about the talent, then why would you expect they would?**
And you know what? I'm not looking forward to MJF's run.
And you know why? AEW doesn't know how to book MJF.
- MJF joins Inner Circle to "destroy from the inside". He didn't and it meant nothing.
- MJF loses the Jericho feud.
- He forms the Pinnacle. They rarely appear together and it meant nothing.
- MJF gets to promote the competition which is Russo levels of 2edgy. And AEW promoted him promoting the competition on Twitter...
- MJF's return involved too many leaps of logic (which I mentioned in a [comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/SquaredCircle/comments/x66az7/post_aew_all_out_2022_discussion/in584ww/) when it happened) where MJF does all he does and insults Tony and the company in promos beforehand...then Tony brings him back, lets the build up that show be a secret, pays money for a special song, etc. and apparently the others backstage are all ok with this, since no one spoke up on air to try to stop him. MJF also tried his "greatest trick" line...but no one thought MJF stopped existing or anything close to that as far as getting fired, etc.
- Moxley kinda screwed MJF by saying he ["wasn't the devil"](https://www.reddit.com/r/SquaredCircle/comments/yxerqr/aew_dynamite_spoiler_mjf_speaks/iwp0g5e/) in a promo, which forces him to come out the next week to rehash his "greatest trick line", which if you check my comments 2 weeks ago to downvotes, I mentioned I thought this was a giveaway people were right about him and Regal and it was.
Why in the world would I expect them to all of a sudden learn how to use MJF right?
I've said before I don't think Tony Khan (as evidenced by his reluctance to feature women in meaningful ways over AEW's history, ROH nonsense, lack of stories, etc.) really knows the value of a [TV time slot](https://www.reddit.com/r/SquaredCircle/comments/ylf0rr/dave_meltzer_on_twitter_some_fan_felt_something/iuzplty/).
AEW too often, it's not terrible, it's not late WCW bad. It just feels like Tony is still playing his booking simulator and assumes they'll always have that TV time.
It feels like AEW thinks they are doing well and if they stay the course, things will turn around and pick up. But they fail to realize that, judging by their current product, they aren't on any course to begin with.
Great post. Your remarks about Tony Khan not appreciating the value of a time slot resonated with me. It reminds me of film school, when my professors used to tell us to think about the purpose of each scene. It is crazy that last night Khan wasted time with Jamie Hayter and Britt Baker having an interview where they demanded that Renee interview them next week. The sad thing is that this same scene has happened before on Dynamite, and it is a shame that no one called out the utter stupidity.
Thanks and this is something I feel like I've been harping on forever to anyone that would listen, and goes right into what you are saying.
Pro wrestling is not real sport. Not completely. While this is obvious, it is forgot too often. Therefore, what is it really? It's a scripted show.
But with the script leaks, etc., I've never seen it treated as such. When in fact it should be treated like any other TV or movie and follow the same screenwriting rules.
It reminds me of the Punk quote, "It can always be better."
House of Black debuting only to not be on the show the next week I feel is the best summary of Tony's booking style. He has no long term plan, he is too focused on moments, and doesn't really know where he is going with anything. Which by the way, was the same criticism that Vince McMahon used to get.
It's literally the exact same issue, you are right, and I talked before about WWE during the Nothing Matters era.
This is no different.
The most damning part about it, and something Vince forgot as time went on, is you can't have moments happen without laying the groundwork with story/character beforehand.
Otherwise its just people doing shit for the sake of filling time.
I hate to say this, but Vince never debuted someone, only to not do anything with them the next week. Vince never had someone win their biggest match on a PPV and then not have them on Raw the next day or just have them disappear for months. Vince didn't build someone up to be the hottest thing on the show, only to have them completely disappear from PPVs. Vince was completely batshit and had mood swings when it came to booking, but his start/stop booking wasn't anywhere near as much of a clusterfuck as TK's is right now. I hate that Tony got me to say good things about Vince. This is how shitty AEW's booking and storytelling has become.
Oh, and I'll readily admit that I'm salty as fuck that Adam Page has come back just to most likely lose to Moxley. He was the hottest face a year and a half ago and they've cooled him down so much and now they're going to keep cooling him down.
I'll die on the hill, Wardlow is one of this companies biggest blunders in it's short existence. I don't know how you come off of him beating MJF with the reactions he was getting. And just get fuck all out of him.
Everybody has their own pet case or thing but it’s not one thing, it’s a lot of stuff.
They’ve lost their identity. It doesn’t feel like AEW anymore. It feels like part ROH, part TNA, part WWE. You no longer get what you came to AEW for.
People say great matches don’t sell and no if you just have great matches it won’t sell. But people did come to AEW for great matches. But great matches that *mattered*. When you throw in more belts and you have the War Games match be at the start of the JAS-BCC feud…they matter less.
They came to see stuff you didn’t usually see on American TV. This is still the case, but they overdid it I think (blood, cussing, etc.) and WWE perception wise is at least different even if it doesn’t do these things still
And you generally always got what you came for. Page winning the belt best example. Now…when was the last time there was a big babyface moment in AEW? People got so behind Eddie in the summer and then he lost his feud to Jericho…and that’s it. Nothing since. People wanted to get behind MJF and they didn’t go with it. Less and less does it feel like you get the payoffs you want.
This is why it’s not going to take the one or two week gimmicks to turn it around. It’s not a blip or slow period, they’re on the downward curve and there’s reasons for it. And they’ve gotta do an introspection of the product to fix it. They’re hardly in a horrible spot so that’s the positive, but they do need to fix it
> They’ve lost their identity. It doesn’t feel like AEW anymore. It feels like part ROH, part TNA, part WWE. You no longer get what you came to AEW for.
>This is why it’s not going to take the one or two week gimmicks to turn it around. It’s not a blip or slow period, they’re on the downward curve and there’s reasons for it. And they’ve gotta do an introspection of the product to fix it. They’re hardly in a horrible spot so that’s the positive, but they do need to fix it
Great post, these bits especially
Every show feels like a cocaine fueled rage. No structure and just a mess top to bottom. Tony needs help. He needs writers to help him structure his show. I'm a major AEW mark and I'm ready to tune out for good.
It's pretty much the same thing verbatim every time too, There are catchphrases and then there is repeating drawn out promos. Bidding war of 2024, Jolly ol saint Nick, The game Trips. We all get it.
MJF told us last night that he isn't dropping the title for at least a year, he's wrestling mostly on PPV and he's always gonna win. He's going over Danielson and then Kingston. There is literally no reason to watch.
They have MJF the world champion putting over wwe and burying aew every week, this is russo on crack booking. It makes the company look 2nd rate, constantly mentioning wwe on their shows and social media every day/ week on tv.
This is hilarious and how nobody at aew stops him from constantly bringing up wwe like that. Its almost as if someone on the back doesnt even check what these folks are going to say or just listen in and says "good shit pal".
And this week MJF actually took the time to repeat all common complaints against him from fans. You know what that is going to do? Some folks are going to say, "You know what, the complain is legit".
It works when Vince is in power and wwe is going through a lull.
Now Vince is out and wwe's been heating up a bit with the Bloodline stuff. So know you're saying WWE rules and the fans will think "yeah they kinda do rule right now."
I'm not surprised. AEW has fallen off a bit this year. Especially since Forbidden Door, there are questionable bookings. They need to get their act together soon.
I was honestly feeling this way as far back as Revolution. It felt like they had some ideas of what to do with all their pieces up to Hangman getting the belt and then never really had a plan after. They need to get a writing team to lessen the burden of it all bring on TK and to help prevent long periods of holding patterns.
There's a lot of things that are wrong with AEW now, but man, it's really ironic that Chris Jericho called CM Punk a "cancer" and now he is the one that is taking down AEW slowly.
Im really sad for 2.0 because i love them, but the entire of JAS sucks, and i dont want to see any of them anymore in aew for a couple of months. They really are killing my interest in AEW.
AEW is just a drag at the moment. FTR should be top of the card not hidden or doing odd singles. Miro should be top heel, Hook should be a main focus.
I don’t care about these indie guys I’ve never heard of coming in to lose, I don’t care about Jarrett or that entire stable. Please stop the ROH rubbish that no one cares about. Stable warfare is boring and repetitive.
And the no psychology, tombstones as set up moves elite matches are driving me crazy. Omegas great and should be main event, but Bucks are just channel changers for me, I can’t stand their nonsense
Me last night: “Cool match, but fans have absolutely ZERO reason to care about Danielson vs. Dax.”
*Gets downvoted to oblivion.
AEW needs to stop pandering to the “this is awesome” chanting fans.
Very revealing that Tony constantly signal-boosts that stupid chant whenever it happens on Dynamite, seemingly convinced that is proof he’s booking a good show.
It’s not. It’s often proof of the opposite.
Something funnier? He uses the exact same language for every single tweet about that chant. He just changes the names of who is in the match but it's literally word for word the same each time. It's pretty sad.
Everyone knew exactly what that match was gonna be. High work rate 10-15 match that Bryan eventually wins. That’s exactly what it was. Another “banger” with no stakes or heat.
Sheamus for example is doing the “banger after banger after banger” gimmick but what’s really kept the fans on his side is his clear goal of “I want to win the IC Title because my career is almost over and it’s the one title I’ve never won.”
Yeah, I really like both of those guys... I'd much rather see FTR work as a team, and Danielson working a program against anyone with a name I'd recognize besides Jericho.
That match served absolutely no purpose other than being a good match, and they have so many wrestlers that they could've used anyone for that. Hell, Danielson was in another segment that actually progressed his character beyond the JAS.
TV before Full Gear was a bunch of ROH stuff and other things that felt meaningless and lost in the shuffle. No angles with strong stories that felt meaningful or truly hot, and i guess this is the end result.
I don’t get why they just won’t hire writers to help produce the show and create compelling storylines. One of the best years creatively and ratings wise was in the WWF in the year 2000 due to them having some of the best writing
AEW really needs a "who ran over Stone Cold Steve Austin" kind of angle that integrates the majority of the roster and takes up 3/4s of the year or a full year with an actual worthwhile pay off. As people have mentioned, the amazing matches aren't doing shit. The Sami Zayn-Roman/Bloodline interactions started around this time last year and that is undeniably the hottest angle in all of wrestling right now. They really need something to hook people because matches aren't cutting it.
Dude I said the same thing. I’m freaking tired of the workrate shit, time to start creating entertaining segments and storylines, a string of good matches doesn’t equate to a good show. You need characters and good stories too, AEW has forgotten that, or just doesn’t care about it. I don’t know at this point
These kinds of ratings are about where the product has been for a while now. Lacking coherent stories, too many pointless and predictable matches that only appeal to the nichest of a niche fandom - fans who love 15 minute no story wrestling where you already know who is gonna win.
There’s no stories, and no reason for me to care. I skipped last night. Watched the elite match, the Ricky segments, acclaimed thing, and MJF on dvr this morning. Just not excited about anything else
Tony needs writers and a booker. Not saying this just because of the ratings, it’s been needed long before today. Maybe he’ll start paying attention when it affects his tv deal?
Speaking for myself, I used to watch AEW in full every week. Dynamite and Rampage. Now I watch half of Dynamite and turn it off and I don't even bother with Rampage. It just doesn't hold my interest anymore.
Yikes.
The stories in AEW are few and the few they have are generic overused junk.
The truth is the majority of wrestling fans like the drama. Only a few like matches to watch matches.
Definitely agree with this, Tony thinks he can just announce matches and people will come because its a cool match. Yes its a cool match but if there's no story backing it up I'm not going to be invested. Bryan vs Dax is a cool match but why?
Tony tweeted once a few months ago about him essentially being sorry for a promo opening up and taking up time on Dynamite and that he promises to always make wrestling the focus. You shouldn't be sorry for that, you need the stories to make people care.
maybe i'm just remembering it wrong but when i started watching AEW during COVID it felt like everyone was involved in some kind of storyline, now it is just matches
Cody leaving, ROH, injuries/fights in the late spring/summer, Punk being gone. TK cannot make up for it with the booking. Should have let FTR be the main characters of the show while they were the hottest act in US wrestling.
A lot of people have made very good points in this topic, but one thing I'd add is that whilst a lot of people have mentioned AEW prioritising "great matches", one of the things that hurts the ratings is the fact that every match is the same.
The formula in AEW matches doesn't change. Every match has big spots, kickouts, near falls, strike battles, fighting spirit and so on. Even if people love this match type, that's fine, but how can anyone like it match after match, week after week, month after month? It's boring. This formula for what they consider to be a great match has been used on every single show, from too to bottom.
It's just boring. You can't have the same match continuously and expect fans to care.
The "Who might show up next" heat is gone. CM Punk's presence is gone. Matches are just happening for the sake of two guys who can wrestle good, minus anything resembling a story. Wrestlers like Bryan Danielson and Kenny Omega don't feel like big deals on air anymore. ROH is only interesting to a small aspect of their audience, and no one wants a series of 7 matches with the same team when the sport isn't real. AEW will weather this storm as all companies have up and down periods, but Tony has his work cut out for him. AEW doesn't have that hot, wild, unpredictable vibe anymore. It just feels like a good wrestling show, most of the time.
People saying there is no one left to blame don’t worry I’m sure they’ll find a way to blame Ricky Starks Hobbs FTR and all the wrestlers who don’t get weekly television. Blaming them is like blaming an ant that falls into a sinkhole in the street. If the tv company are happy with these numbers fair enough but to me it all comes down to creativity, yes most of the wrestlers are good but other than a certain few things made by the wrestlers themselves most of the feuds are people randomly challenging or turning for no reason, a tournament or contenders match we don’t seem to see a lot of personal things happening or ideas, like look back at the Monday night wars everyone involved had something going on even if some were dumb they were still stories and in aew there doesn’t seem to be a lot of stories.
There is a lot you can take influence from, popular culture, the news, music, tv and film, just put your own twist on it and mirror the culture of the demo you want. I know that’s easier said than done but it seems to me there are so many problems with Tony’s booking. And anyone who gets hot is either shoved down our throats or they wait too long until everything has cooled off. Sometimes over thinking things and catering to the fans who will watch whatever happens, it’s not a bad thing to want casual viewers and do or try things that are different as tests to see what works when it comes to viewers. I dunno it’s very complicated obviously but it’s pretty worrying and I just hope they don’t point the finger at any singular performer when it’s the overall product as a whole
Sorry but why do they need a trios division? Is there actually enough trios that people care about? Who is gonna be next after the lucha bros? Best friends? Probably house of black? And after that? Who else is gonna be willing to play with the elite?
Jurassic Express were a trio, but that ended.
The Gunn Club were a trio, but that ended.
Team Taz were a trio, but that ended.
The Undisputed Elite were a trio, but that ended.
SCU were a trio, but that ended.
When you have a niche audience and you spend months doing stuff that irks your niche audience don’t be shocked if the niche audience gets more niche
I’ll say it once and I’ll say it again. Tony is a rich child who thought he could play wwe universe mode in real life. Look at the product and look at how so many play the game.
We all love using dlc custom belts. We all love hardcore No DQ matches on a video game. And that’s basically been AEW this year
Color me shocked, people aren't interested in seeing yet another random indy guy get a title shot, or yet another Elite vs DT match. Tony needs a lot of help with the booking. I'm so tired of the dynamite formula, I think this was my last episode for a while.
Promoting an ROH pay per view that i literally don’t care about.
MJF is the champ with no viable challenger. (I know Ricky is fantastic and the #1 contender but they haven’t had a segment together yet)
JAS is just not a good stable and they’ve had a lukewarm feud with BCC for what feels like all of my life
Same headlining match for 7 weeks = not great.
WHERE THE HOLY HELL IS MIRO
Bad numbers for Tony, I would have stayed for the main event but I opted to rewatch Souled Out 2000 and watch Ed Ferrara get lathered up with BBQ sauce.
I still think I made the right decision.
I watch wrestling for the stories, not for 5* star matches every week with no build-up. AEW does nothing story wise to keep people tuning in every week.
Second Thanksgivings, early Hanukkah, early Christmases, early New Years, world cup, basketball, football, parent teacher conferences, holiday concerts, Christmas decorations, hurricanes, floods, snow storms, satellite/cable/internet outages, etc., etc., etc.
"Everyone who knows anything knows that ratings go down the week after Thanksgiving when everyone hasn't set up their new TV they bought on Black Friday. It's sad that people don't know these things."
Dave
I thought the last 2 weeks may have just been anomalies, but now it seems to be a concerning trend.
Somewhat interesting note, on this day last year they did 861K and 0.31. This was when the company was much hotter too.
Don’t know how much the number bounced back last year, so I’m interested to see if they can next week.
MJF’s debut as champion happened in the middle of the show so the Elite can wrestle a match we’ll be seeing seven times in the main event. MJF’s WWE praising has gotten stale rapidly but that’s absurdly dumb booking
Having stale ass Moxley open the show up AGAIN by cutting another promo and knowing the Elite Vs. Death Triangle were the main event had me tune out of the show real quick.
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Ace Steel leaves and 100k tune out
Woof. Is this Dynamite’s lowest regular episode demo ever? Edit: Looks to be the worst since Thanksgiving Eve 2020
Lowest ever 18-49 on an unopposed Wednesday. Not a good look at all.
Well when people only tune in to watch MJF promo and then leave,you know its a problem.
This is what happens when everything becomes a hot shot swerve No explanation as to why Regal turned on Mox. MJF was a heel who was gifted a chip for his Full Gear main event by the Firm, a group of low mid carders, after throwing a public temper tantrum, after no showing a real paid meet & greet & a lackluster blow off with Wardlow - MJF then teases a babyface turn, takes a chokeslam though a table - to then have Regal turn on Mox at Full Gear with the same MJF ending we have seen for 3+ years and then 2 weeks later MJF turns again on Regal who never said a word during that segment - i lost count at face/heel turns between MJF & Regal now This reads like a Vince Russo WCW 1999 angle. AEW had the receipt for success in 2019 - 2021. Once TK bought ROH, everything just feels like a mess on TV - 13 titles, random matches, zero builds to majority of the matches, angles get shelved arbitrarily, injuries or no injuries, acts just left off TV for months at a time. I have no idea of any feuds or angles except the never ending JAS - BCC which is going into its 9th month Very easy to see why viewers are tuning out. Also did anyone see that venue. That arena looked empty.
He’s so concerned about getting ROH on tv like anyone actually gives a fuck about it
Rent a warehouse, film an ROH show and just put the god damn thing on YouTube. That shit has ruined dynamite being shoehorned in.
This, better yet replace Dark with RoH on that YouTube spot, clean the house of those unused talent or move them RoH and convert it into an NXT developmental promotion.
They could easily pick up where NWA Powerrrr left off with this idea. Fuck, I'd actually tune in to watch just for the vastly different vibes of that show. Just concentrate all the technical workrate stuff in ROH and make it almost like a pit fighter classic set, vs. AEW Dark (which feels more like, "the audience isn't here yet, let's warm up in the ring")
That's the thing, RoH has not been portrayed as any different from AEW, it's just guys that AEW doesn't have a role for. Like...make the matches different my guy, in ANY way. Pure rules, just...anything different.
Hell, just use Universal or even Full Sail. Cancel one of the YouTube shows.
Why can't ROH just be a YouTube show? Replace Dark or Elevation with it. It's just watering down Dynamite and Rampage at this point.
>Why can't ROH just be a YouTube show? Replace Dark or Elevation with it. Money. Tony bought ROH for millions of dollars for almost no reason other than nostalgia and now is trying to make his money back
I give zero fucks about ROH. Do you hear that Discovery Warner?!
[удалено]
Even funnier, Impact just got a global streaming deal
Say what you will about impact but they know how to stay in business
The cockroach of wrestling and I mean that in the best way
Longer in business than WCW and ECW combined!
The RoH stuff absolutely kills my interest. I have no desire to watch Jericho as RoH champ. Even though I love Joe, I just can't care. I'm trying to watch AEW, not RoH.
A thread earlier about why did Regal turn on Moxley? Has 0 upvotes with everybody claiming it makes perfect sense and you are dumb and need to be spoonfed like WWE if you don't understand Regal's motivations.
This place is weird man. a criticism of AEW (the only promotion I care about) in one thread will be +70 and in another thread it will be -12.
it feels almost blasphemous to compare any modern day show to russo’s WCW, but there’s honestly a ton in common with 2022 AEW i don’t think current AEW is as outright BAD as 2000 WCW, but it feels like every big booking decision is based on subverting the expectations of internet fans rather than logical story progression and character development, whether it’s with a) some big swerve that seems to exist for the sake of being a swerve (garcia turning on danielson, hayter rejoining britt, luchasaurus rejoining christian) b) by having every other story be some meta commentary on online drama like the undying matt hardy “contract tampering” thing, or MJF’s bidding war shtick, jade & bow wow or even—although i think it worked in this case—the elite/DT match in chicago. i don’t think there’s anything wrong with knowing your audience is smarkier and incorporating more NJPW/indy stuff! but this constant thing where dirtsheet rumors are the skeleton key to understanding on screen stories is the same shit russo would do by having bischoff reference sid’s scissors, or brad armstrong doing a road dogg cosplay
Here have my free award. On the point why I have not so much interest in AEW at the moment. Nothing feels important or meaningful at all.
The pandemic episodes were often in the 0.2 range. This may be lowest in 2022.
It is.
IT'S TIME FOR THE SAME EVENT
Don’t forget to tune in next week for….the same event!!
That demo is weak
There’s nothing that really interests me at the moment and that makes me kinda tbh
my boss used this analogy with me the other day and I think it kinda applies. Instead of making a meal with 20 different components, a good chef knows how to use the exact amount of ingredients. To me, AEW’s “exact amount of ingredients” we’re having four titles. Each title felt important and unique, title matches didn’t happen every week so felt kinda special, etc. Nowadays you can put a world title match on Rampage and barely anyone cares because there’s rarely a card without one of the 15 titles on the line and because everyone knows damn well the title isn’t changing hands on Rampage. There’s too much going on all at once for me to get emotionally invested in it all.
And even if you try to be invested, the story will suddenly stop or the wrestlers will disappear for 2 months at least. In the meantime JAS vs BCC will go on and on.
I think a lot of issues could be solved by eliminating half of their roster. they need to have a core roster of guys ( and gals) that they can feature on the regular without needing to take these 2 month breaks. It's like any TV show. Imagine on Seinfeld if George or Kramer shows up in one episode only to never be seen again until 2 months later. How the fuck do they expect you to care about these characters?
And most of the time they’ll have them defend it against an outside or some lower midcard guy in a match that goes way too long
It's kinda crazy how easy it is to pintpoint every single issue with AEW right now: 1) JAS/BCC going on for too long 2) The ROH midcard titles (although I think Joe winning the TNT belt was a way of unifying belts as to not make ROH look weak in comparison) 3) The decision to highlight ROH over AEW (at least, with the amount of time dedicated to it) 4) Always the amount of time given to women's wrestling 5) Always the amount of time given to the -wrong- women's wrestlers 6) Forgetting beloved and over wrestlers like Hook, Miro, Wardlod to some extent, etc. 7) Highlighting people no one asked to be highlighted....Double J I'm sure there's more, but for such a "smark" that Tony is, and definitely someone who reads online criticism, his digging of his heels into the wrong decision sounds just like pure stubborness at this point, and AEW is suffering baaaad because of it.
That makes it even more frustrating. A lot of folks saw these problems emerging a year ago (Talent being cooled off quickly) or even earlier (Mistreatment of womens division). But TK is so damn stubborn, they keep on with old habits while also introducing new problems (ROH).
I predict a ‘major announcement’ from Tony Khan coming soon.
A tournament to determine who does the next best of 7 series
But each round of the tournament is a best of 5
Ironman matches only
And we're gonna have a season of matches to decides who in the tournament.
And you need to win a Battle Royale to get into the tournament
Ah my favorite segment. How I miss those.
MMMMid
It seems that whoevers hot is nerfed. Hangman wins stuff and then fights nobodies (and Adam Cole) when defending the title. Wardlow turns face and wins gold and then fights 70 security guards. Danielson faces Omega and Hangman and has bangers, and then he becomes a tweener for some unexplainable reason. Kingston has his best match VS Jericho, and then after an insane BCC V JAS hot start, totally disappears (sometimes suspended) and the best talker in the company after Punk can't get more than 30 seconds on TV. 8 Star FTR. Other promotions would kill to have them. Appears on TV for multi-man tags or to fight Top Flight for some reason. This is a problem when a billionaire wants to play booker rather than owner.
MJF as champ certainly isn’t off to a good start
Not having him on the first show after he won the title was as bad of a first step as you could’ve had. You got people buzzing after he won the title and you make them wait 10 days instead of 3 days to hear from him? Absolute insanity
The buzz died away months ago when they kept doing the same promos over and over again and everyone could already call how this was going to end.
Better strap yourself in because we've got another 2 years of THE BIDDING WAR OF 2024
I mean the guy got a super minimal reaction when his music hit and when he came out, considering he’s the new champ that everyone supposedly wanted.
They fucked up by now having him at last weeks show
what the internet fans want and what draws are usually pretty much opposites
Yeah, that's not a good number at all.
Kind of running out of excuses for the low numbers, too.
I’d win every chess game if the other player wasn’t always up to some shit
Why there was no chance to win. Freeform had National Treasure. I mean some on. Nicholas Cage is the demo god
People were already burnt out from *two* World Cup matches earlier in the day! ^^/s
Everyone wanted to go to bed early to see if Belgium could beat Croatia. Not to mention the Toronto Maple Leafs game was on regional TV in Canada too.
So your world champion SHOULDN'T talk openly about how much he'd rather work for another company?
Or how you're rarely if never going to see him wrestle?
If this is what the “reset” is, it’s not working. The difference in buzz and heat this company had a year ago compared to now is wild.
Did a reset even happen or is that something people just wanted and when some new champs were crowned they decided to declare that it was happening
I remember around Forbidden Door, AEW was struggling with injuries and the build that fans took to proclaiming the post-Forbidden Door Dynamite as a reset. Then nothing much changed, but the roster was getting healthier so fans started proclaiming All Out as a reset. Then stuff exploded and fans proclaimed Full Gear as a reset. Things don't seem to have changed since, but I'm sure Revolution will be considered a "reset for 2023" or something.
I remember a post in this sub claiming Tony Kahn said he was going to reset the women's division. Everything else seems to be fans projecting their wants.
What do you do when you have a.)the guy who sold out the united center on a rumour of his appearance, and b.)perhaps the most over guy in wrestling who main evented wrestlemania? Well obviously you put them in stupid programs instead of making them work together to grow your audience.
You know, I can understand being upset with Punk. I think it's fuckin' silly, because Punk clearly had a gripe, because it's apparent people still in the company refuse to take TK's word for it, that Punk had nothing to do with Cabana's job status. But what the fuck are they doing with Bryan Danielson? He's a frickin' megastar, and was doing great shit this time last year, was on the edge of starting an epic heel run... then they just pair him with Moxley for BCC and halt all of his singles progress, and then the most significant thing he's done since has been fighting for Danny Garcia's honor, or something, I don't know, it was stupid.
Only to have a 3 month program where Garcia goes back to being a useless lackey
I’m saying it over and over again: Danielson probably has some level of creative control, and his idea of creative control is booking himself in 30 minute long matches again nobodies so he can bleed, do a headbutt and lose. And Khan allows him to do it. He should’ve been world champion.
Why is Bryan having 20 min matches with a tag wrestler? I get FTR is popular but it's a waste of both parties. I'm sure TK is paying a hefty bill for Bryan, he should keep him in the top spots regardless of whether or not Bryan wants that.
I think the way they were using Punk was fine. But what has happened to Danielson is criminal. I don't care if he himself doesn't want to be world champion, but you can't take one of the best wrestlers in the world and book him like a complete JAG.
This whole sub hated me for suggesting Punk and Bryan and even Cole all work together when they came in around the same time. Could have even thrown in Keith Lee (who I think came in around that time), had Andrade turn against AEW, had Malakai Black do the same. AEW’s biggest weakness sometimes is its current fanbase. They are so damn stubborn and closed-minded. If it’s something Tony Khan is not currently doing, they don’t want to hear it and shut down any discussion. It’s aggravating.
The behavior went from passionate fans to a cult like - I saw this same behavior with ROH from 2010 until MSG 2019.
MJF’s “fucking mark” promo touched on this a lot. Fans will have an opinion, change their minds two weeks later, then pretend that was always their opinion. When MJF was pissed off at Tony people acted like was too big for his boots for wanting to get paid. He came back and now he’s a generational superstar again.
Attitude towards punk is the prime example of this. From beloved wrestler to "we always knew he was a miserable jerk"
Yeah, it's funny seeing how everyone on this subreddit "always hated him", but when you look at the most upvoted posts on this subreddit, his return is number 3.
Not to mention that the Pipebomb is the literal reason the sub exists in the first place
It’s funny, because this episode addressed a lot of the surface level complaints that were coming from fans. There was no JAS vs BCC, no ROH, the Elite were back, and Danielson wrestled somebody not related to Jericho. Yet people still aren’t interested. There’s two issues with Dynamite currently. The first is that it doesn’t matter. Tony Khan saves too much for his PPVs and it’s getting to the point now that a regular Dynamite no longer feels like must see tv. We basically had MJF tell us as much in his promo this week. The Full Gear buildup was horrendous, as it was basically just AEW kicking a can down the road until they could progress stories on PPV. The second is the lack of interesting long term stories. That was always the draw of AEW, but now WWE has more interesting character development with stuff like the Bloodline and Austin Theory. If the only draw you have over the WWE is independent style wrestling, then eventually you’ll have the viewership of an independent wrestling company.
I think it's the "no, not like that" meme. A bit of a monkey paw situation. No JAS vs BCC... until next week. Storylines still stuck there. The Elite were back... doing the same match for the 3rd time. Danielson wrestled somebody not related to Jericho... against Dax, who never wins singles matches.
I want to say that this has been a gut-check of a year for AEW, but I also feel like that would be an understatement. The honeymoon phase is long gone.
The honeymoon period of this promotion has now past and to see the audience of it remain stagnant during this whole time its been up is definitely something to worry about.
Can’t even blame ROH
First “non holiday eve” appearance of The Elite in months as well. Based on this sub, you’d think they were the most popular guys in the company but the data doesn’t reflect it
I don’t like that the recent ratings get pinned on one thing it is a multitude of things coming together, Punk being gone, a series of lackluster shows, straight up bad programs up and down the card in regards to the programs specifically there’s so much less creativity and overall effort than before
Too much focus on backstage drama instead of the product, as exciting as the gossip has been the shows have been pretty lame.
AEW has little to no stories. And by stories, I mean things that have been brewing for a long time, issues, etc. Mox and MJF almost had something, but now who knows what's up with Regal, and in an effort to hold off that grudge match, here is Page randomly. Some of the best characters aren't on TV - Kingston, FTR. And too many other people, have no other characters beyond 1 trait + I did this cool thing a couple months ago. Tony is the momentum killer besides the obvious people, like yeah FTR/Wardlow...but House of Black debuts randomly...why? *Then where tf was House of Black this week?!* AEW has good wrestling, even great wrestling...so does everyone else. **It's common sense, then, if AEW doesn't give people a reason to tune in and *care* about the talent, then why would you expect they would?** And you know what? I'm not looking forward to MJF's run. And you know why? AEW doesn't know how to book MJF. - MJF joins Inner Circle to "destroy from the inside". He didn't and it meant nothing. - MJF loses the Jericho feud. - He forms the Pinnacle. They rarely appear together and it meant nothing. - MJF gets to promote the competition which is Russo levels of 2edgy. And AEW promoted him promoting the competition on Twitter... - MJF's return involved too many leaps of logic (which I mentioned in a [comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/SquaredCircle/comments/x66az7/post_aew_all_out_2022_discussion/in584ww/) when it happened) where MJF does all he does and insults Tony and the company in promos beforehand...then Tony brings him back, lets the build up that show be a secret, pays money for a special song, etc. and apparently the others backstage are all ok with this, since no one spoke up on air to try to stop him. MJF also tried his "greatest trick" line...but no one thought MJF stopped existing or anything close to that as far as getting fired, etc. - Moxley kinda screwed MJF by saying he ["wasn't the devil"](https://www.reddit.com/r/SquaredCircle/comments/yxerqr/aew_dynamite_spoiler_mjf_speaks/iwp0g5e/) in a promo, which forces him to come out the next week to rehash his "greatest trick line", which if you check my comments 2 weeks ago to downvotes, I mentioned I thought this was a giveaway people were right about him and Regal and it was. Why in the world would I expect them to all of a sudden learn how to use MJF right? I've said before I don't think Tony Khan (as evidenced by his reluctance to feature women in meaningful ways over AEW's history, ROH nonsense, lack of stories, etc.) really knows the value of a [TV time slot](https://www.reddit.com/r/SquaredCircle/comments/ylf0rr/dave_meltzer_on_twitter_some_fan_felt_something/iuzplty/). AEW too often, it's not terrible, it's not late WCW bad. It just feels like Tony is still playing his booking simulator and assumes they'll always have that TV time. It feels like AEW thinks they are doing well and if they stay the course, things will turn around and pick up. But they fail to realize that, judging by their current product, they aren't on any course to begin with.
Great post. Your remarks about Tony Khan not appreciating the value of a time slot resonated with me. It reminds me of film school, when my professors used to tell us to think about the purpose of each scene. It is crazy that last night Khan wasted time with Jamie Hayter and Britt Baker having an interview where they demanded that Renee interview them next week. The sad thing is that this same scene has happened before on Dynamite, and it is a shame that no one called out the utter stupidity.
Thanks and this is something I feel like I've been harping on forever to anyone that would listen, and goes right into what you are saying. Pro wrestling is not real sport. Not completely. While this is obvious, it is forgot too often. Therefore, what is it really? It's a scripted show. But with the script leaks, etc., I've never seen it treated as such. When in fact it should be treated like any other TV or movie and follow the same screenwriting rules. It reminds me of the Punk quote, "It can always be better."
House of Black debuting only to not be on the show the next week I feel is the best summary of Tony's booking style. He has no long term plan, he is too focused on moments, and doesn't really know where he is going with anything. Which by the way, was the same criticism that Vince McMahon used to get.
It's literally the exact same issue, you are right, and I talked before about WWE during the Nothing Matters era. This is no different. The most damning part about it, and something Vince forgot as time went on, is you can't have moments happen without laying the groundwork with story/character beforehand. Otherwise its just people doing shit for the sake of filling time.
I hate to say this, but Vince never debuted someone, only to not do anything with them the next week. Vince never had someone win their biggest match on a PPV and then not have them on Raw the next day or just have them disappear for months. Vince didn't build someone up to be the hottest thing on the show, only to have them completely disappear from PPVs. Vince was completely batshit and had mood swings when it came to booking, but his start/stop booking wasn't anywhere near as much of a clusterfuck as TK's is right now. I hate that Tony got me to say good things about Vince. This is how shitty AEW's booking and storytelling has become. Oh, and I'll readily admit that I'm salty as fuck that Adam Page has come back just to most likely lose to Moxley. He was the hottest face a year and a half ago and they've cooled him down so much and now they're going to keep cooling him down.
I'll die on the hill, Wardlow is one of this companies biggest blunders in it's short existence. I don't know how you come off of him beating MJF with the reactions he was getting. And just get fuck all out of him.
[удалено]
Everybody has their own pet case or thing but it’s not one thing, it’s a lot of stuff. They’ve lost their identity. It doesn’t feel like AEW anymore. It feels like part ROH, part TNA, part WWE. You no longer get what you came to AEW for. People say great matches don’t sell and no if you just have great matches it won’t sell. But people did come to AEW for great matches. But great matches that *mattered*. When you throw in more belts and you have the War Games match be at the start of the JAS-BCC feud…they matter less. They came to see stuff you didn’t usually see on American TV. This is still the case, but they overdid it I think (blood, cussing, etc.) and WWE perception wise is at least different even if it doesn’t do these things still And you generally always got what you came for. Page winning the belt best example. Now…when was the last time there was a big babyface moment in AEW? People got so behind Eddie in the summer and then he lost his feud to Jericho…and that’s it. Nothing since. People wanted to get behind MJF and they didn’t go with it. Less and less does it feel like you get the payoffs you want. This is why it’s not going to take the one or two week gimmicks to turn it around. It’s not a blip or slow period, they’re on the downward curve and there’s reasons for it. And they’ve gotta do an introspection of the product to fix it. They’re hardly in a horrible spot so that’s the positive, but they do need to fix it
> They’ve lost their identity. It doesn’t feel like AEW anymore. It feels like part ROH, part TNA, part WWE. You no longer get what you came to AEW for. >This is why it’s not going to take the one or two week gimmicks to turn it around. It’s not a blip or slow period, they’re on the downward curve and there’s reasons for it. And they’ve gotta do an introspection of the product to fix it. They’re hardly in a horrible spot so that’s the positive, but they do need to fix it Great post, these bits especially
Every show feels like a cocaine fueled rage. No structure and just a mess top to bottom. Tony needs help. He needs writers to help him structure his show. I'm a major AEW mark and I'm ready to tune out for good.
The whole product is dog shit right now. Nothing captivating or intriguing to bring me in.
Feels like MJF may have just dropped his own “me and my friend Mark will stop watching” last night.
The constant WWE mentions and 2024 gimmick is unbearable. And this is coming from an MJF fan.
It's pretty much the same thing verbatim every time too, There are catchphrases and then there is repeating drawn out promos. Bidding war of 2024, Jolly ol saint Nick, The game Trips. We all get it.
MJF told us last night that he isn't dropping the title for at least a year, he's wrestling mostly on PPV and he's always gonna win. He's going over Danielson and then Kingston. There is literally no reason to watch.
I think people are deeply underestimating how the Brawl out incident - and it’s lack of acknowledgment on TV - has hurt the brand
Four top stars disappeared off TV for 6 weeks and not a word was said about it. That’s just not how you run a company, I’m sorry.
And all 4 were champions at the time
"You can be the heart and soul. I'll be the dollar and cents."
They have MJF the world champion putting over wwe and burying aew every week, this is russo on crack booking. It makes the company look 2nd rate, constantly mentioning wwe on their shows and social media every day/ week on tv.
This is hilarious and how nobody at aew stops him from constantly bringing up wwe like that. Its almost as if someone on the back doesnt even check what these folks are going to say or just listen in and says "good shit pal". And this week MJF actually took the time to repeat all common complaints against him from fans. You know what that is going to do? Some folks are going to say, "You know what, the complain is legit".
Tony Khan approves this shit
It works when Vince is in power and wwe is going through a lull. Now Vince is out and wwe's been heating up a bit with the Bloodline stuff. So know you're saying WWE rules and the fans will think "yeah they kinda do rule right now."
This reminds me of AEW constantly shitting on Impact while on Impact.
Then wonders why no one is tuning in. I remember at the time I hated how impact was a punching bag on their own show and never got their comeuppance
Reminds me of Scott steiner "wcw sucks" promos on wcw TV
Really excited to see the elite and death triangle another 4 more times. How exciting
I'm not surprised. AEW has fallen off a bit this year. Especially since Forbidden Door, there are questionable bookings. They need to get their act together soon.
I was honestly feeling this way as far back as Revolution. It felt like they had some ideas of what to do with all their pieces up to Hangman getting the belt and then never really had a plan after. They need to get a writing team to lessen the burden of it all bring on TK and to help prevent long periods of holding patterns.
I’m sure MJF bringing up how he’s going to WWE every time he shows up will help with the ratings.
I mean at this point I'm excited for him to get to wwe already lol
That demo though.
There's a lot of things that are wrong with AEW now, but man, it's really ironic that Chris Jericho called CM Punk a "cancer" and now he is the one that is taking down AEW slowly. Im really sad for 2.0 because i love them, but the entire of JAS sucks, and i dont want to see any of them anymore in aew for a couple of months. They really are killing my interest in AEW.
AEW is just a drag at the moment. FTR should be top of the card not hidden or doing odd singles. Miro should be top heel, Hook should be a main focus. I don’t care about these indie guys I’ve never heard of coming in to lose, I don’t care about Jarrett or that entire stable. Please stop the ROH rubbish that no one cares about. Stable warfare is boring and repetitive. And the no psychology, tombstones as set up moves elite matches are driving me crazy. Omegas great and should be main event, but Bucks are just channel changers for me, I can’t stand their nonsense
Me last night: “Cool match, but fans have absolutely ZERO reason to care about Danielson vs. Dax.” *Gets downvoted to oblivion. AEW needs to stop pandering to the “this is awesome” chanting fans. Very revealing that Tony constantly signal-boosts that stupid chant whenever it happens on Dynamite, seemingly convinced that is proof he’s booking a good show. It’s not. It’s often proof of the opposite.
Something funnier? He uses the exact same language for every single tweet about that chant. He just changes the names of who is in the match but it's literally word for word the same each time. It's pretty sad.
"Justified 'This is Awesome' chants for damndraper making an astute Reddit post!"
Everyone knew exactly what that match was gonna be. High work rate 10-15 match that Bryan eventually wins. That’s exactly what it was. Another “banger” with no stakes or heat. Sheamus for example is doing the “banger after banger after banger” gimmick but what’s really kept the fans on his side is his clear goal of “I want to win the IC Title because my career is almost over and it’s the one title I’ve never won.”
Yeah, I really like both of those guys... I'd much rather see FTR work as a team, and Danielson working a program against anyone with a name I'd recognize besides Jericho.
That match served absolutely no purpose other than being a good match, and they have so many wrestlers that they could've used anyone for that. Hell, Danielson was in another segment that actually progressed his character beyond the JAS.
TV before Full Gear was a bunch of ROH stuff and other things that felt meaningless and lost in the shuffle. No angles with strong stories that felt meaningful or truly hot, and i guess this is the end result.
What the hell happened. They were either getting a million or close to it weekly. Now it’s just getting lower and it’s not all cuz of holidays
Chances of a proper booker and creative team being hired - still none
Maybe when he doesn't win Booker of the year he'll realize he needs help.
I don’t get why they just won’t hire writers to help produce the show and create compelling storylines. One of the best years creatively and ratings wise was in the WWF in the year 2000 due to them having some of the best writing
AEW really needs a "who ran over Stone Cold Steve Austin" kind of angle that integrates the majority of the roster and takes up 3/4s of the year or a full year with an actual worthwhile pay off. As people have mentioned, the amazing matches aren't doing shit. The Sami Zayn-Roman/Bloodline interactions started around this time last year and that is undeniably the hottest angle in all of wrestling right now. They really need something to hook people because matches aren't cutting it.
Dude I said the same thing. I’m freaking tired of the workrate shit, time to start creating entertaining segments and storylines, a string of good matches doesn’t equate to a good show. You need characters and good stories too, AEW has forgotten that, or just doesn’t care about it. I don’t know at this point
Guess the crowd is tired of the same mjf promo
But he said we would be so he wins I guess.
These kinds of ratings are about where the product has been for a while now. Lacking coherent stories, too many pointless and predictable matches that only appeal to the nichest of a niche fandom - fans who love 15 minute no story wrestling where you already know who is gonna win.
Do they still think the best of 7 was a good idea?
I got bored during the second match, no idea how they intend to run seven of this shit.
There’s no stories, and no reason for me to care. I skipped last night. Watched the elite match, the Ricky segments, acclaimed thing, and MJF on dvr this morning. Just not excited about anything else
Tony needs writers and a booker. Not saying this just because of the ratings, it’s been needed long before today. Maybe he’ll start paying attention when it affects his tv deal?
Speaking for myself, I used to watch AEW in full every week. Dynamite and Rampage. Now I watch half of Dynamite and turn it off and I don't even bother with Rampage. It just doesn't hold my interest anymore.
Yikes. The stories in AEW are few and the few they have are generic overused junk. The truth is the majority of wrestling fans like the drama. Only a few like matches to watch matches.
Not a good rating.
Knowing the main event was the Elite vs Death Triangle again some people may have tuned out not wanting to see it again.
It was a banger at Full Gear. I didn’t need or want to see it 6 more times though.
I’m not sure I even understand or was ever told why it’s a best of 7.
THIS!! The Bucks did the job and suddenly it’s a best of seven? How does a best of seven even work when they very first match was a title match?
It wasn't.
It was also never explained why the Bucks left or why they were coming back. Just really odd vignettes and then suddenly they have a title shot.
Can’t wait to watch The Elite vs Death Triangle again (and again, and again, and again!)
No one wants to watch the same spot fest seven times between The Elite and Death Triangle. It just seems overly indulgent and not very creative.
Why the Fuck did they do that? Could he not find any thing else for all 6 of these dudes?
Guinness record for most super kicks in a meaningless feud tho
Heard bow wow drawing bigger numbers than the elite
Buying ROH was the worst thing to happen to this company
It's not just ROH. It's the belief that good matches trump good storytelling in the US TV pro wrestling market. That is just not the case.
Definitely agree with this, Tony thinks he can just announce matches and people will come because its a cool match. Yes its a cool match but if there's no story backing it up I'm not going to be invested. Bryan vs Dax is a cool match but why? Tony tweeted once a few months ago about him essentially being sorry for a promo opening up and taking up time on Dynamite and that he promises to always make wrestling the focus. You shouldn't be sorry for that, you need the stories to make people care.
may be a hot take but i actually like promos opening up the show, opening with a really hot match is cool but i think there should be a balance
maybe i'm just remembering it wrong but when i started watching AEW during COVID it felt like everyone was involved in some kind of storyline, now it is just matches
Cody leaving, ROH, injuries/fights in the late spring/summer, Punk being gone. TK cannot make up for it with the booking. Should have let FTR be the main characters of the show while they were the hottest act in US wrestling.
Yikes.
Brutal but the AEW defenders will make excuses again somehow
y'all sure say "banger" a lot around here.
The Elite aren’t as big of a deal as they would like to believe. The ratings show that.
A lot of people have made very good points in this topic, but one thing I'd add is that whilst a lot of people have mentioned AEW prioritising "great matches", one of the things that hurts the ratings is the fact that every match is the same. The formula in AEW matches doesn't change. Every match has big spots, kickouts, near falls, strike battles, fighting spirit and so on. Even if people love this match type, that's fine, but how can anyone like it match after match, week after week, month after month? It's boring. This formula for what they consider to be a great match has been used on every single show, from too to bottom. It's just boring. You can't have the same match continuously and expect fans to care.
But by all means, we need to see the Elite vs the Death Triangle five more times.
The "Who might show up next" heat is gone. CM Punk's presence is gone. Matches are just happening for the sake of two guys who can wrestle good, minus anything resembling a story. Wrestlers like Bryan Danielson and Kenny Omega don't feel like big deals on air anymore. ROH is only interesting to a small aspect of their audience, and no one wants a series of 7 matches with the same team when the sport isn't real. AEW will weather this storm as all companies have up and down periods, but Tony has his work cut out for him. AEW doesn't have that hot, wild, unpredictable vibe anymore. It just feels like a good wrestling show, most of the time.
Saw someone on the aew subreddit argue that the ratings were down because this was college exam week amd people are studying
Amazing that the Thanksgiving Eve show last week was .06 higher.
Right and last week the excuse was thanksgiving eve lol
People saying there is no one left to blame don’t worry I’m sure they’ll find a way to blame Ricky Starks Hobbs FTR and all the wrestlers who don’t get weekly television. Blaming them is like blaming an ant that falls into a sinkhole in the street. If the tv company are happy with these numbers fair enough but to me it all comes down to creativity, yes most of the wrestlers are good but other than a certain few things made by the wrestlers themselves most of the feuds are people randomly challenging or turning for no reason, a tournament or contenders match we don’t seem to see a lot of personal things happening or ideas, like look back at the Monday night wars everyone involved had something going on even if some were dumb they were still stories and in aew there doesn’t seem to be a lot of stories. There is a lot you can take influence from, popular culture, the news, music, tv and film, just put your own twist on it and mirror the culture of the demo you want. I know that’s easier said than done but it seems to me there are so many problems with Tony’s booking. And anyone who gets hot is either shoved down our throats or they wait too long until everything has cooled off. Sometimes over thinking things and catering to the fans who will watch whatever happens, it’s not a bad thing to want casual viewers and do or try things that are different as tests to see what works when it comes to viewers. I dunno it’s very complicated obviously but it’s pretty worrying and I just hope they don’t point the finger at any singular performer when it’s the overall product as a whole
Either CM Punk took 20% of the audience with him or it's time for AEW to move on from the match quality obsession, JAS, and the trios stuff.
Why not both!!!!
Sorry but why do they need a trios division? Is there actually enough trios that people care about? Who is gonna be next after the lucha bros? Best friends? Probably house of black? And after that? Who else is gonna be willing to play with the elite?
Jurassic Express were a trio, but that ended. The Gunn Club were a trio, but that ended. Team Taz were a trio, but that ended. The Undisputed Elite were a trio, but that ended. SCU were a trio, but that ended.
They made the trios titles and then got rid of all the trios.
Good point, it's almost as though the trios division was made for them. Maybe I'm thinking too much into it.
When you have a niche audience and you spend months doing stuff that irks your niche audience don’t be shocked if the niche audience gets more niche I’ll say it once and I’ll say it again. Tony is a rich child who thought he could play wwe universe mode in real life. Look at the product and look at how so many play the game. We all love using dlc custom belts. We all love hardcore No DQ matches on a video game. And that’s basically been AEW this year
Hot shot booking does this. People will always cry about the out of touch old timers but this show has way too much going on
Jeez Dynamite can't crack 900k now.
Color me shocked, people aren't interested in seeing yet another random indy guy get a title shot, or yet another Elite vs DT match. Tony needs a lot of help with the booking. I'm so tired of the dynamite formula, I think this was my last episode for a while.
1. losing Punk hurts a shit ton 2. A show booked around a 3rd straight Indie-rific trios match is a choice
Promoting an ROH pay per view that i literally don’t care about. MJF is the champ with no viable challenger. (I know Ricky is fantastic and the #1 contender but they haven’t had a segment together yet) JAS is just not a good stable and they’ve had a lukewarm feud with BCC for what feels like all of my life Same headlining match for 7 weeks = not great. WHERE THE HOLY HELL IS MIRO
Its a total snooze. Its more interesting to see which of punks friends tony/bucks will put into horrible story lines/bury. Not a good combo.
They are not doing well.
Bad numbers for Tony, I would have stayed for the main event but I opted to rewatch Souled Out 2000 and watch Ed Ferrara get lathered up with BBQ sauce. I still think I made the right decision.
Tony may want to go the MLB division series route and go best of 5. Have death triangle wrap this up next week
Can we put to bed the narrative that the elite are draws? If anything they lose viewers
I watch wrestling for the stories, not for 5* star matches every week with no build-up. AEW does nothing story wise to keep people tuning in every week.
Punk was a draw.
3 weeks in a row failing to cross 900k. The Elite are a DRAW. What's the excuse this week? Mid terms? World Series? Thanksgiving?
Second Thanksgivings, early Hanukkah, early Christmases, early New Years, world cup, basketball, football, parent teacher conferences, holiday concerts, Christmas decorations, hurricanes, floods, snow storms, satellite/cable/internet outages, etc., etc., etc.
The new normal.
"Everyone who knows anything knows that ratings go down the week after Thanksgiving when everyone hasn't set up their new TV they bought on Black Friday. It's sad that people don't know these things." Dave
I don't want to watch The Bucks, it's pretty simple.
Is 900,000 the new million?
I thought the last 2 weeks may have just been anomalies, but now it seems to be a concerning trend. Somewhat interesting note, on this day last year they did 861K and 0.31. This was when the company was much hotter too. Don’t know how much the number bounced back last year, so I’m interested to see if they can next week.
MJF’s debut as champion happened in the middle of the show so the Elite can wrestle a match we’ll be seeing seven times in the main event. MJF’s WWE praising has gotten stale rapidly but that’s absurdly dumb booking
Having stale ass Moxley open the show up AGAIN by cutting another promo and knowing the Elite Vs. Death Triangle were the main event had me tune out of the show real quick.