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elegantSolomons62

The full quote > This afternoon at The Gathering in Charlotte, North Carolina, legendary professional wrestling promoter Jerry Jarrett was asked about potential changes to WWE and the company possibly leaning into its history and video library more during a Q&A Session: > > Jarrett commented: > > "They didn't tell me not to tell anybody. So I'll tell you, Hunter called, this week, the Raw crew and the Smackdown crew and said, 'My father-in-law and Stephanie's father....We admire him and we respect him. He reached success that we would never know without him, but we don't know how to do it his way, and we're not going to try. We're going to try a new way.'... and I think the new way is to put wrestling instead of sports entertainment. I mean, I that's pure speculation on my part."


yognautilus

I had to look up what The Gathering was and I can't fully express my disappointment to read that Double J was not at The Gathering of the Juggalos.


Smarktalk

The Gathering is a great song by Stephen Lynch about the Juggalos.


DorkChatDuncan

Stephen Lynch in general is pretty great.


Lacocious

First comedy show i ever went to was Stephen Lynch and Mitch hedberg, fucking had a blast.


Timetravlan

I'm honestly jealous you got to see Mitch live, he's my mom's favorite comedian and she turned me onto him. Love his delivery, can't help but think of him everytime I come across a busted escalator


GTSBurner

(gets the Mountain Dew, Funyons, and the Led Zeppelin)


Ecstatic_Youth

The Gathering is also a very excellent Testament album. Check out the songs D.N.R. and Legions of the Dead.


PsychicWarElephant

Gene Hoglan is a machine, but also a god. A mecha-god? I dunno, either way, never seen a 300+ pound dude wearing combat boots absolutely crush a double base set.


CallOfKtullu

The Atomic fucking Clock. His SYL stuff is insane, Skeksis is my personal favourite drum track ever.


xSanderCohen

Down For Life is my fav on that album


MediumAd374

3 days in darkness!


mr_wrestling

Those song names sound like indy stables.


TattooMarioB

Stephen Lynch is the best.


rbhindepmo

This would be Jerry Jarrett so he’d probably be an even odder fit at an ICP gathering


Jew_T_Warden

If you hadn’t have posted this I would have kept assuming it was that gathering especially since it is happening this weekend.


break616

I was more disappointed to find out we aren't in Highlander.


LawrencesLeftArm

I kinda hate JJ enough that I dunno if I wish he was or wasn’t ever at a Gathering…


CaptainPicardKirk

It was a Magic The Gathering tournament


Bizzareverie

He did perform for JCW at the 2005 Gathering of the Juggalos. Tons of the wrestling legends from the 80s and 90s have done the GOTJ.


joshuamiasma

Juggalo Homies whoop whoop.


Own_Explanation_1516

It's kind of sad, it's a music festival, and JJ is the world's greatest singer, among other things he is the world's greatest at


darthsabbath

This isn’t Jeff Jarrett, this is his dad, Jerry Jarrett


Own_Explanation_1516

If JJ Jr is the world's greatest singer, lover, wrestler, and promoter, I doubt JJ Sr. is bad. The comment said Double J. I may be wrong, but Double J is Jeff specifically, though I would not be surprised if they both went by it. In fact, Jeff should be triple J


DistantDestiny

Username checks out


BeaconXDR

I tap two mountains and cast Incinerate for three damage, I end my turn.


Grantsdale

Now is the time of the Gathering, when the stroke of a sword will release the power of the Quickening. In the end, there can be only one.


eightcircuits

Pro wrestling, Highlander(movies and tv), and Star Trek were the three things I watched most with my parents. And I just realized saying that that the quality in all three varies so widely it probably affected my taste in everything for better or worse.


Abyssalstar

HEEEEEERE WE ARE, BORN TO BE KINGS


Arcade_Kangaroo

WE'RE THE PRINCES OF THE UUUUUNIVERSE!


500DaysofNight

And that my friends, is how babies are made.


Different_Conflict_8

“Well … you know …”


why_rob_y

> "They didn't tell me not to tell anybody. So I'll tell you While he knows the people involved and their expectations and I don't, I'd say it's generally assumed you shouldn't just divulge publicly what was said on a private phone call just because the other party didn't explicitly tell you not to.


mysteriousbaba

If it's a one on one call, yes. But if its an address to the entire combined crews and roster, you have to assume they were planning for it to be disseminated eventually. You don't talk about super private sentiments in a meeting with hundreds of people.


[deleted]

[удалено]


mysteriousbaba

Jeff Jarrett they might, since he's an executive there now. But not someone tangentially connected like Jerry.


what_is_blue

I can't read. What an idiot, sorry bud.


mysteriousbaba

No worries bro. I thought the same till I went through the comments. The names even look alike.


TheTrueDetective90

Anyone else find it fascinating Triple H is referred to as Hunter even out of kayfabe?


lk79

Mick Foley is still referred to as “Cactus” by a lot of former wrestlers too (Terry Funk most notably).


Jay_Sondr

Which is weird when you think about it. Jack is the name. Cactus is like a monkier. They didn't call John Rackham, whose professional name was Calico Jack, "Calico", they called him "Jack". The friends of Wild Bill Hickok didn't called him "Wild", they called him "Bill", or... "James".


spittafan

It’s like Britt baker always calling Thunder Rosa “Thunder” instead of “Rosa”. So dumb


spittafan

It’s like Britt baker always calling Thunder Rosa “Thunder” instead of “Rosa”. So dumb


KidCoheed

Names are such a weird thing, where even if they know and we know Hunter isn't his real name, he's been referred to as Hunter and H so much so that it's become his unintentional nickname


TheTrueDetective90

True these people are probably called their gimmick names so much more than their actual names it becomes their nickname after awhile like you said.


DBTornado

I wonder how many times he's been sitting there watching TV or reading and Stephanie or someone has had to call him Hunter to get his attention. "Paul....Paul....PAUL....**HUNTER!**" "Huh? Oh, sorry, what's up?"


VinceOnAPlane

I still can't wrap my head around Seth's real name being Colby Lopez


mechnick2

Eh, it’s like a stage name. Nobody calls Jay Z Shawn Carter, he’s just Jay Z


Fildo28

Even during the Logan Paul podcast, Logan said, “Paul. Boss. Sir. Triple H…” And you can kind of hear Triple H say, “Hunter. Hunter.” Everyone was clapping so it was hard to hear.


0pyrophosphate0

Per Cornette, old school wrestlers almost always introduced themselves as and referred to each other by their ring names. If you largely know him as "Hunter", you won't accidentally call him "Paul" in a promo. Every indication is that HHH is an old school kind of guy.


Scavgraphics

I've heard people generaly refer to their fellow wrestlers by the name they meet them as.


Kaiso25Gaming

Too many Pauls


underlights_

I find this sooooo odd He was only Hunter in kayfsbe for like 4 years Surely everyone called him Paul It’s really weird


KidCoheed

He was referred to as Hunter on TV for 4 years but even in Kayfabe its a Nom de Plum and has a history of when it's "serious" people just calling him Hunter. I assume Hunter became his Nickname and Triple H a further mutation of that


underlights_

No, I completely understand how it happened, I just find it really odd that his real life nickname is basically the shortened name of a character he played


FigureFourWoo

All I've ever wanted was for them to book the damn shows in a way that made sense, and make it feel like shit mattered. So far, HHH seems to be hitting those points. The matches have some story or purpose with actual stakes. We'd get that sometimes, but Vince seemed to believe having someone pin the champion in a Championship Contender Match was the best way to push a challenger. I preferred how they set up Ciampa vs Lashley, Nakamura vs Gunther, and Liv vs Shayna a whole lot more than the nonsensical booking we've got in recent years. They've managed to set up a great week with the US and IC Championships being defended on RAW and Smackdown. I feel *invested* in the story because they actually decided to tell one.


biscuitslayer77

Exactly, I always accepted there's some sports entertainment aspect has to be there because that's what made it successful but there has to be stuff that makes sense at its core values and on screen product. I.e. the actual wrestling.


OutlandishnessFun765

Honestly WWE have made things so needlessly difficult for themselves. Mainly Vince and his enablers. Just look at how many people argue on the internet over wrestling. They’ll argue nearly everything. But you rarely find people arguing over what could be improved with WWE. It’s pretty obvious and universally agreed. It would be near impossible for HHH or most to carry on how Vince had things. All the things that could easily be improved are so obvious


DustyRhodesGuy

It feels weird having an IC Title storyline. By weird, it feels like it's been 5 years.


Gamesgtd

I just hope they're still defended on the PPV. Like AJ Styles vs Lashley would be dope and Sheamus vs Gunther would be sick


danielfletcher

You mean PLE. :P


Dammageddon

My thoughts as well. The company is World *Wrestling* Entertainment, not World Sports Entertainment.


500DaysofNight

I was telling telling my wife last night about all the words they weren't allowed to say anymore and she looked at me like I was crazy and said it was so stupid. I said that's what happens when someone has gotten their way for 40 years with no one to tell them no.


mexploder89

There's just one thing I wish they would stop doing, which is impromptu matches based on promos or attacks that happen on the show. It's silly and it makes no sense It's fine if it's an opening promo setting up the main event, but when you have a brawl, cut to commercial and then you have a match between the people who are brawling, it's dumb


BeaconXDR

As a person that has taught classes on how to communicate in a professional setting, that was a wonderful way to say "Yea we all thought it was a bit shit and just couldn't say anything. We will not do anymore."


LionBastard1

Who has the cooler dad - Boruto or Slapnuts?


erikwidi

Trunks


Alernet

Usopp. Where my #YassopNuts at?


UsidoreTheLightBlue

Boruto?


1i_rd

I don't know Jerry Jarrett but I knew his brother. He was a very kind man. My uncle by marriage was his son. He used to take my cousin and I to lots of cool places when we were little.


Plenty_Sound_8425

What about Jeff himself.?


lk79

“IT’S A NEW WAY, YES IT IS!!!”


adsadsadsadsads

>I mean, I that's pure speculation on my part BREAKING: Old man chats shit at meet and greet. Subscribe for more!


LilMoWithTheGimpyLeg

After reading Gary Hart's biography, I can't help but have a heavily biased view whenever Jerry Jarrett's in the news.


watchsmart

What did he say? I can't afford Gary Hart's book since it costs $5000 now.


LilMoWithTheGimpyLeg

[That he's "the Bastard Child of an Inbred Hillbilly Family".](https://web.archive.org/web/20150907190840/https://prowrestlingstories.com/pro-wrestling-stories/garyhart1/) Please forgive the need of a Web Archive link, as the live article isn't there any more.


mjac1090

Anyone who watched triple h on Logan Paul's podcast knows he absolutely sees that their is more to wrestling than just matches so don't worry about the entertainment side going away


Naliamegod

Or you know, watch NXT before it got hot shotted and bottlenecked because a lot of guys didn't want to go to the main roster. Yeah, the guy who gave us Enzo & Cass, Velveteen Dream, Bayley, Sasha Banks, Asuka and probably numerous other characters that are probably forgotten is pretty familiar with importance of the "entertainment" side.


Procrastinator_325

As long as he's able to balance both, I have no problem.


RichRinDC

Was that interview worth listening to or will highlights suffice? I can't imagine listening to a Logan Paul podcast, especially after seeing he has his brosephs mic'ed on it


TomGerity

Honestly, Logan did a pretty good job in interviewing Triple H. The whole segment is mostly Triple H talking; Logan asks questions and then shuts up for the most part, outside of occasionally sharing his perspective as a new member of WWE.


Gozzoo

His friends were kind of cringeworthy at times, but it’s worth a listen to hear what Triple H had to say.


TheCVR123YT

It’s hardly even an hour so I say it’d be worth checking out. Just kinda skip ahead to when H comes out and you should be ok imo


Relative-Bear-3021

Hunter is moving extremely carefully here. Good luck to him


NCHouse

Triple Hs way has always been better


Pure_Narcotic

"Sports Entertainment" is Wrestling It's all the same, just a damn marketing term Vince uses and now people use as term for stuff they don't like. It's no different in concept from the attitude era. When I grew up during the attitude era, I didn't care about work rate or ring work, I cared about the characters, stories and nonsense. As I got older, I appreciate great matches and ring work, but you NEED to fill the 5 hours of programming with more than just the wrestling part. You need the characters, stories and yes comedy. That's been there for decades. How many top ten or so WWE moments you see or highlight reals be about the ring work? Very little. Its characters and moments. WWE, Impact, and yes even AEW all do the same concept of what pro wrestling and "sports entertainment" are about. Just all doing things their own way. Of course, WWE has been mostly stuck in the same pattern for many years and they need to freshen the concept up. If you just want straight up wrestling with minimal character and stories, you got NJPW.


shinyobelisk

I think the Sports Enterainment vs Wrestling divide held more weight in the 80s. When the WWF had elaborate vignettes, a lot of gimmicks were about wrestlers having cartoon versions of blue collar jobs and Wrestlemania, WWF's biggest show was short matches with elaborate entrances. Compare that to the NWA sticking to interviews and backstage segments of getting their guys over while very rarely doing full on vignettes, most gimmicks were more down to Earth and Starrcade very lengthier matches to really sell the struggle and sports vibe. Nowadays everybody does everything. Hausen is as cartoony as anything in WWE. An average episode of RAW can have something like Asuka vs Becky as a 20 minute Main Event. Back in the 80s Ric Flair in a promo against Steamboat said Steamboat did alright ''up there in Hollywood''. Back then that line made sense, if anybody tried it today it'd be cringeworthy.


thefuryx

I don't know how true this is, but I've read somewhere that Vince started saying "sports entertainment" to avoid paying the NYSAC some fee for professional wrestling.


orangemachismo

You have to remember theres 1/10th the people watching wrestling and even less attending wrestling in the US compared to when Vince purchased the WWWF. So yeah its different marketing, but it's marketing that was successful in the political climate of the late 80s early 90s to help beat his challengers. And also a failed marketing campaign that may have attributed to generations of fans leaving wrestling behind.


emceelokey

"Sports entertainment" includes wrestling but "sports entertainment" existed before McMahon coined the phrase. There was stuff like American Gladiators, Rollerderby, Celebrity bowling or whatever sport but wrestling is wrestling and if you're a company with the word wrestling in it, the wrestling part is probably what people watching are watching for. I definitely don't want a three hour block to just be wrestling but at least have bell to bell time closer to 50% of the air time than the 30ish% WWE was giving us. The way I looked at it, if there was significantly more talk than wrestling on a show, I'm watching a talk show with some wrestling in between and as a wrestling fan, that turns me off of the product of you're supposedly putting on a "wrestling" show.


portnoyskvetch

This is a great comment and I think it nails it. I've always thought sports entertainment vs pro wrestling boils down to something like: in sports entertainment, the matches serve the stories whereas in pro wrestling, the angles serve the matches.


Bosscharacter

Jerry is gonna mess around and get Jeff fired and he doesn’t even realize it.


Windows_66

>"We don't know how to do it his way" Have you tried cocaine?


PM_ME_LANCECATAMARAN

This isn't that controversial. Vince's mind is like a black box: you might have *some* idea how the input will affect the output, but the process is so arcane and full of variables you can't really know for sure


EdLesliesBarber

Seeing Smackdown, Vince must be so salty lol. Tag team tournament, women featured throughout the card and not of a hint of the typical catty woman/relationship with male wrestler trope. Everything seems fresh and exciting , but a complete 180 from how Vince booked shows for my entire life.


erock2095

Gonna do things my way. It’s my way.


editor_jon

My way or the highway


FribonFire

Old NXT was fun for the people who liked that style. But I just assume all those people went to AEW. Main roster shows need the entertainment.


Thirdstar1

A show can be both, they’ll still do their talk shows and comedy.


ChejovAlacan

IE late Black and Gold NXT. You’d have very good matches in between various backstage and promo segments. Even NXT 2.0 follows along that framework, just less workrate given the hard shift into developmental


GameplayerStu

NXT 2.0 has actually been pretty decent at this. Show has a really good balance. Pacing is generally good as well.


Meepsnort

I think it's still gonna be pretty entertainment based. Just with a little longer, more modern-style matches, and maybe not as much of the real silly stuff. But HHH has a flair for the grandiose. If anything, stuff like entrances are gonna be *more* elaborate.


TheNateRoss

Yeah, the showmanship doesn't go away at all, and frankly I don't think it needs to. The problem with the main-roster booking has been that it's *incoherent*, not that there's too much flashiness or whatever. Larger than life is great! Just please tell a logical and meaningful story. And that's something HHH consistently did really well in NXT, so I have confidence in his ability to do it on the main roster now also.


klovervibe

Exactly! I *like* the WWE style! I just wish it wasn't so fucking stupid and pointless it would make an 8 yo blush.


Nogatkee

Many people like the sillier stuff more than the indieriffic multi-kickout matches. Some of it should remain still.


Meepsnort

I'm talking like the reigns/Corbin dog food shit, or mae young giving birth to a hand. I like some silliness as much as the next guy, but there's a lot of shitty content where the time could have been better spent, that almost nobody liked except vince. including the talent.


mjac1090

Pretty sure hunter is cool with the sillier stuff as evidenced by......the entire history of dx


BracketKeg

Many people? Who? I’ve never seen someone compliment the segments where Dana Brooke and Reggie are having dinner and Akita Tozawa shows up dressed like Luigi to steal the 24-7 title


ElScorcho1999

But you did see people compliment that Ezekiel/Elias/KO stuff and that’s silly. Wrestling weddings do a good number because it appeals to people


BracketKeg

That was silly AND entertaining because the people involved were good actors who played their part well. They also ended up having a really good match. The only box the Reggie and Dana story checked was being silly. It was cringey as fuck, neither of them are good actors, and 0 good matches came out of it.


Meepsnort

didn't they at least do one wedding in NXT? Zeke...I'm a little worried about. Elias kinda stinks and Ezekiel rules. But that almost seems too tongue-in-cheek for vince. That had to be a writer pitch.


Gomez9898

Is that a serious question in a world where shows with indieriffic multi kickout matches whether it be WWE with NXT or AEW struggle to even break a million viewers?


Thirdstar1

RAW aint hitting those #s because of 24/7 matches though. It’s RAW one of the most popular shows of all time. NXT 2.0 is closer to main roster when it comes to the wacky stuff but they STILL don’t hit 1 Million.


BracketKeg

Exactly. People watch Raw out of habit. I watched Raw out of habit. After this week, it’s not out of habit anymore. I don’t put it on in the background while doing something else. I’m gonna turn it on and watch.


Thirdstar1

Next mfs gonna say Smackdown does 2 Million every week because Shanky dances.


BracketKeg

Yeah, the silly stuff isn’t and has never been what people watch wwe for. It’s funny *sometimes* but nobody is buying a ticket to smackdown to see Shanky dance, or to see a 24/7 title segment, or ANY comedy segment.


BracketKeg

If Raw didn’t have the legacy it did it wouldn’t be breaking a million. You know how I know that? Because OVW is the exact same as Raw. They do goofy shit every week and it’s the same quality as Raw. Only difference is one has been an international name for decades and the other hasn’t. People put it on out of habit because they’ve been putting it on for thirty years


AML2003

We're getting the Codyvator every week then.


Pitiful_School9925

Matches especially could get very theatric.


jdaqcruz

NXT had Grimes' rich schtick, The Way and the InDex love saga. They're very capable


mjac1090

Don't worry, the entertainment will still be there. First if all we are talking about the guy who was in dx, he's good with goofy shit. Second, he was on Logan Paul's podcast recently and hammered home the point that there is more to wwe than just wrestling. In fact, he pointed out that most of the most iconic moments in the history of pro wrestling aren't based around technical, there are based around a story/promo/crazy move/general atmosphere/etc.


Notkanyewest1

Triple h can handle it, he was in dx and plus he has Shawn Michaels working nxt who introduced the idea of the attitude era.


bigchicago04

I think there’s a happy medium. I watch wrestling for the characters and story more than the actual wrestling. I get kinda bored watching aew constantly having 20 minute matches, especially when they start the show. I wish they’d do more character and story work, but I suspect that’s largely because so much of their talent has mostly been on the indies. Wwe could definitely do with a healthy increase in wrestling tho.


Wynter_Warm12

And old NXT had a very limited ceiling a lot choose to ignore. It was bleeding viewership at some point and didn't even bounce back when it had its own night. Yes, AEW consistently has fantastic matches, but the company very much implements the good side of sports entertainment quite a bit. Some fans see that phrase and think that means wacky bs only. Or like its some insult to label anything sports entrainment. There are fans who could watch nothing but good matches and be satisfied. But the character investments, great stories and memorable segments are part of the reasons why fans flocked to AEW too(AEW has its up and downs like anything else. But their highs are *really* awesome) Alienating an entire chunk of an audience to only do a style that barely had an 800k ceiling sounds questionable. But ,its a wait and see of course. I'm down for being wrong.


queerdevilmusic

It got pretty easy to bail on NXT when it was obvious that most wrestlers were gonna get repackaged when they got called up.


BracketKeg

That explanation really explains why Raw had a jump in almost half a million viewers this week


Wynter_Warm12

I mean, we had a whole lot of excitement and expectations of what post Vince WWE looked like. Not only were fans curious of what moves Trips would make, it was a post Summerslam that was looked at positively and there was intrigue for more returns/debuts. There were awesome vibes all around. Spikes in viewership is always fantastic, but hard to maintain most times. Its why I'm already rolling my eyes at social media comments if Raw drops back down to 1.9 or 2 lol Its going to take some long term building to get consistently 2+ again. So I'm not going to fault Triple H if that happen at all. Don't get me wrong, the strengths of Trips booking is well worth being excited for. How he books women, tag division,midcard titles and any champions really. He makes sure they're a big deal. I do think there were some holes in his game that got exposed on tv. But I won't go as far as some detractors decided to go and call H a bad booker lol It was his first time having to truly book a weekly TV show where ratings were in play too and not pretaped. I just hope we get a healthy balance of both peak NXT years and the highs we've experienced in the more main roster style of product too. That's all. I don't think we have to swing far in either direction.


ElScorcho1999

One episode of Raw did good. What happens if the rating drops this upcoming week which it most likely will?


BracketKeg

I don’t know what’s happened the last twenty years when ratings have been consistently dropping? Nothing. Triple H will continue making the show better for people who actually care about wrestling.


MV2049

Imagine caring about ratings.


bathory21

But old NXT was entertaining, I mean why else would people watch it?


BracketKeg

You’re wasting your time dude. This is genuinely one of the most brain dead threads I’ve seen on this sub and that’s saying something. People here seem to be on some serious copium and don’t want to even entertain the idea that WWE is going to be successful with HHH’s vision, even though both Raw and SD this week were much better shows than what we’ve seen in the past 10 years and we know verifiably that one of them had a huge spike in ratings.


LukkasG

when NXT was on network a lot of people skipped weekly episodes and in post/live TakeOver threads would talk about how promo packages brings them up to date if they skip episodes, it was apparent who were watching who were not watching NXT would rarely break top 5 on the network weekly when it was airing


bathory21

I have no idea what that has to do with what I said


LukkasG

if it was that entertaining then surely people wouldn't skip weekly episodes especially since it was only an hour and NXT weekly episodes would end up at least top 2 in the weekly WWE Network rankings right


Charidzard

Being entertaining doesn't help enough when everything was immediately being undermined on a main roster call up. Leaving NXT fans less and less reason to want to remain invested.


ThurstonFeelsgood

I have friends that I've known for 10+ years that love AEW but for the life of me I just don't get it. For me, AEW has been a massive disappointment the whole time. AEW is booked like TNA in 2007 with even less coherence but more good wrestling. I'm excited to see Triple H's main roster vision.


Caveman_Flashlight

I watched wrestling from 1991 until around 2002. Stopped watching and keeping up with the sport entirely. Missed a TON of stuff obviously. Heard about AEW and got interested again. Started watching again in 2018 - WWE and NXT, then AEW. Loved NXT, WWE was good when it was good (my first match back to WWE was randomly Daniel Bryan vs AJ Styles), but when WWE was bad it was horrible. I loved the idea of AEW and liked a lot of what I saw at first, especially Cody vs Dustin. Fast forward to now. I was pissed when NXT became 2.0. But, now WWE has my interest wholeheartedly, and I'm really enjoying the changes HHH has made. As for AEW? While I love a lot of the people they have (Danielson, Punk, FTR, Starks, Storm, Rosa, Deeb, Hook, Kingston, MJF) I am highly disappointed in how things have played out. I think a lot of the ex-WWE guys have been misused and I had higher hopes for Black, Miro, Andrade, Cole, and Keith Lee. I think the booking is all over the place because Tony allows his talent too much freedom to do what they want, Jericho especially. I used to love Jericho growing up, but he's just awful right now IMO. I've gone from barely watching WWE and just seeing recaps, and never missing AEW to missing AEW and always watching WWE now. Yes, that may change over time, but right now HHH is showing he cares enough about the product and talent that he's made WWE a must watch for me.


BracketKeg

I wouldn’t say what we’ve had the last few years was anything approaching entertainment. Raw this week had a huge increase in viewers. I don’t understand this concept that the average wrestling fan doesn’t actually want to watch good wrestling.


No_Cheetah4762

The episode of Rampage where Punk came back did 1.4 million viewers. People get curious when something new or big happens. One episode is not an indicator of a long term trend.


BracketKeg

I never said it was. But a huge spike like that of people watching, seeing a more entertaining and coherent product, I’m confident that will lead to growth. I don’t know why this thread is so damn pessimistic about that concept.


No_Cheetah4762

You implied it. You initial comment used a, so far, one time ratings spike as a indicator that a trend was coming. If we used that Rampage episode and only that episode as a reference point, Rampage must be doing a million viewers a week easy. But, it's not sniffing that. It didn't even hit 400,000 viewers two weeks ago. You can't use one reference point and extrapolate anything from it.


BracketKeg

Again, that isn’t what I implied. *Maybe* I worded it badly but you can’t tell me what I meant when I know that’s not what I said. *That* being said, yeah I do think there will be a trend of better ratings going forward because this past weeks raw was really entertaining. It’s disingenuous on your end to compare a hyper specific moment in a show- Punk’s debut- to the entire structure and cohesiveness of the show, being Triple H’s style of show running. One is a single moment that can’t and won’t ever be replicated, and nobody would expect it to be. The other is a permanent change going forward. You wanna talk about bad comparisons, that’s a a bad comparison.


No_Cheetah4762

They're comparable because people can only tune in for Triple H's first show while in charge one time. Its also a specific moment that caused the spike. Both were "let's see what's going on here" bumps. And MNF starts in like five weeks. So, even if they trend upwards for the next month or so, they're going right back to where they were once football rolls around.


ElScorcho1999

One episode that draws good means nothing. Consistency and YoY shows the difference.


BracketKeg

So the fact that year on year WWE’s ratings have been consistently decreasing for twenty years by your own logic is pretty good proof that people *don’t* like the product as it was under Vince’s control. I genuinely don’t know how a single actual human being could watch a random episode of raw from last year Vs this past week’s raw and even begin to argue that Vince’s raw was better


ElScorcho1999

You used the ratings of one episode as a perimeter for success. I’m not arguing that Vince was good as a Booker anymore


BracketKeg

Yes. I did. And then I used twenty years of ratings decreasing along with your own logic that YoY is proof to show that by your standards WWE was getting worse and worse. I don’t understand what point you are trying to make dude


Bellagrrl2021

I think that everyone in charge knows this. I also have a feeling that Triple H realizes that while NXT Black and Gold was popular among some people, it would not work with a wider fanbase. He pretty much said this years ago. He said that the main roster is pop music, while NXT is more niche.


capnbuh

I watched Smackdown yesterday and they spent like 5 minutes slowing down Pat McAfee kicking Baron Corbin in the nuts while playing wacky sound FX. I'm sure there will still be plenty of dumb stuff to laugh at on these shows.


danielfletcher

I will never not be entertained by someone using a telestrator to recap kicking another man in the balls. I am what's wrong with the human race.


HagbardCelineHMSH

I enjoy workrate more than a lot of people. I mainly watch NJPW, Stardom, Noah, a bit of AJPW, and sometimes AEW (it's just hit and miss for me). I'm only starting to come back around on WWE. I was entertained as hell by the punt to the nuts recap.


BaronVonStevie

it doesn't really matter who went where from the old NXT. What matters is you have like 2 million people watching your TV on the main roster and, if you want to get certain stuff or people over like the old NXT, just get it over with your 2 million people. If Vince did things his way for however long, do things your way now. Just get to work. If Eric Bischoff can get 8 million people to watch cruiserweights, HHH can get 2 million to watch his kind of wrestling.


ElScorcho1999

This wrestling vs sports entertainment stuff is ridiculous. It’s all the same shit.


CardboardChampion

Colours are all the same shit. How they're balanced affects how satisfying they are for you.


queerdevilmusic

Such a phenomenal argument.


CardboardChampion

Eh, I could've worded it better. Whoever heard of a satisfying colour.


ScottMou

I disagree. Its about having a different mindset. Worrying less about soap opera scripting and skits vs. Letting wrestlers tell stories in the ring and giving them the freedom to use the charisma that got them to the dance in the first place.


Cle_fan_brisbane_2

i wouldnt argue with you but people downplay the entertainment side to aew far quicker than on wwe. i mean, has anyone really forgotten jericho and mjf, as an example, had dinner and fucking SANG together?


ScottMou

Who said anything about the two companies?


DoinItDirty

There’s an entire wrestling faction in one company and their whole heel angle is being “sports entertainment”. You know which is associated with which when people discuss it.


ElScorcho1999

That isn’t what the WWE audience cares for though. Look at how the crowd didn’t give a shit on Raw about the wrestling matches.


ScottMou

Im not arguing that point, just that there are differences and they are not 'the same shit'


ay1717

So, then it’s not “all the same shit.”


jackblady

Yep. Agreed. Ones a term carnies invented a long time ago to fool the rubes into thinking their scripted actions were real competition to make money The others a term they invented slightly less long ago to convince the Legal system it wasn't, to get out of regulation.


wekilledkenny11

When the people making the wrestling are differentiating it as such, it’s wild that fans still go “but it’s exactly the same!” Like what you want but blindly ignoring the vast, vast differences doesn’t make the product better, it makes the fan discourse worse.


ElScorcho1999

The people that make the wrestling push the narrative that DX turned the tides in the MNW. Just because they claim something doesn’t make it the truth


shinyobelisk

> The people that make the wrestling push the narrative that DX turned the tides in the MNW. Completely unrelated to your general point but this narrative is so strong that Vince Russo while working for WCW talked about how the WWF turned things around when that happened. Like what the fuck, it seems everybody from the wrestlers involved to the writers/agents who produced are so proud of having a camera follow HHH around in a jeep.


Stellar-Feller

You're right. I hate sports entertainment. They would never do that in AEW. Btw, when are we getting another Mimosa Mayhem match? It's tribalism and it's dumb.


wekilledkenny11

Literally never brought up AEW. Literally never said I hated sports entertainment. Or even that I preferred one to the other. Only that they were *not exactly the same thing* which is the entire point of the discussion being had here. But yes get mad over absolutely nothing because tribalism is all you got


__Hello_my_name_is__

Tell that to Vince.


ElScorcho1999

Article just came out of Vince telling Lana that this is a wrestling company. What are you talking about


TheChrisLambert

Vince only cared about the “moment” not the context or story. He wanted the highlight package that looked good ahead of the PPV. It was a hollow way of looking at things.


kick_heart

With this in mind, does that mean 2.0 has to change to something close to Black & Gold again? The revision was made to produce stars for Vince's WWE, and if HHH is saying he can't run the main roster shows that way, it seems to have lost its purpose.


JerHat

So Hunter just called Jerry just to let him know he’s gonna do things different than Vince?


MulderXF

Yeah, sounds like BS. Why on earth would he call Jerry?


mikedavd

I assume he spoke to Jeff and Jeff spoke to Jerry


JerHat

I could maybe imagine Jeff calling him if they're still on good terms, and just giving him the lowdown... but what relation does HHH have that he would just call Jerry to air any sort of baggage?


PWOutsider

>**LEGENDARY PROMOTER SAYS TRIPLE H INFORMED WWE ROSTER COMPANY WILL TRY A 'NEW WAY' GOING FORWARD** >*By Mike Johnson on 2022-08-06 17:53:00* >This afternoon at The Gathering in Charlotte, North Carolina, legendary professional wrestling promoter Jerry Jarrett was asked about potential changes to WWE and the company possibly leaning into its history and video library more during a Q&A Session: >Jarrett commented: >"They didn't tell me not to tell anybody. So I'll tell you, Hunter called, this week, the Raw crew and the Smackdown crew and said, 'My father-in-law and Stephanie's father....We admire him and we respect him.  He reached success that we would never know without him, but we don't know how to do it his way, and we're not going to try.  We're going to try a new way.'... and I think the new way is to put wrestling instead of sports entertainment.  I mean, I that's pure speculation on my part." *I am a bot. Please reply with any feedback :)*


ZeroZelath

While I think it will be better from a viewer standpoint in what *I* would like, from a shareholder and network POV that might be worrying on some level. Like Stephanie & HHH have been setup to take over and even after all that time they still don't know how to do it like he did ? In other creative industries that would be and has been a doom sentence as the product ends up losing what made it great in the first place and arguably never gets back to that. The fact of the matter is HHH's way in his experiment / brand creation of NXT never drew like what Vince's product did despite having "the machine" of WWE behind it. In fact it got beat, forced to a different channel and product changed entirely once it had some competition. Anyway, it'll be interesting to see how much things change and if they lose any longtime viewers over time that don't like HHH's product that gets put out.


JoeKingsToobox

Huh?


Sirtopofhat

Well you know


lp7625

I just can’t wait to hear Bruce Prichard imitate this dialogue lolol


thatlad

Why the hell would HHH be calling up Jerry Jarrett?


tomofthepops

Wait why was H calling Jerry Jarrett randomly ?


xDearBabyJesus

Jerry Jarrett is a (top tier) wrestling promoter and has been for decades. Without going to Vince, I’m sure they called him up for some advice. With Jeff Jarrett being an employee currently, it’s really not that wild to think they actually called him too


No_Consideration5011

Fuck yea… WRESTLING is back. Thank god for HHH.


shinyobelisk

Before people keep getting their panties in a bunch, just look at 80's WWF compared to what the NWA and other promotions were doing and you can see the difference in Vince's presentation compared to what everybody else was doing. Doule J Sr. probably just means HHH will make things more NWA flavored.


NotClayMerritt

Booking Vince's way is easy. 40 mins wrestling on Raw, 25 on Smackdown, 3 min women matches, anyone with a massive physique gets a push, release someone you planned to push, inexplicably drop storylines out of the blue and not because the fans didn't respond well to it but because one of the talents delivered a line poorly.


Ligmatron

The renaissance has begun


Windows_66

The only real Sports Entertainment is Sports Entertainment Xtreme! Spell it out!


msctex

Sounds a lot like something someone figured they did not have to tell you to keep to yourself.


Ok-Reputation-3206

Nice 👍🏻


rbbass

It took him a half an hour to say that paragraph.


0ddmanrush

You know….