[Voting for the Smarkies, the Wreddit Awards, and the return of the Botchies for 2022 are open!](https://www.reddit.com/r/SquaredCircle/comments/10djwul/voting_for_the_smarkies_the_botchies_and_the/)
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/SquaredCircle) if you have any questions or concerns.*
A perfect end to this story is Sami finding friendship in someone who actually likes him, winning gold with his long time partner, and Jey standing up for himself and leaving Jimmy.
Roman loses clean as a whistle to a guy who can be a main eventer for years to come and also has a great story.
Not everything needs to be the main event of WrestleMania. Hell not everything needs to happen AT WrestleMania for it to be good
I think with how they booked their stuff these past few months they earned the chance to do what they think it's the better option. The best thing about the Bloodline story is that everything made sense, so hopefully they'll continue to do that no matter the outcome we want now.
The issue is, if the Usos don't lose to Sami/KO at mania, who can they lose to that wouldn't be super anticlimactic? I can't see them holding the belts longer than Reigns...
Easy answer there: since it appears (based on Social media) Jey quit the Bloodline, put the belts on Solo and Jimmy.
As an untested team, it's easier to justify a loss.
FKA Banger Bros, Judgement Day, whoever wins the SD tag title tournament etc. Any of those teams could beat an untested pairing.
He said not super anticlimactic and you just gave the most anticlimactic answer possible. Also Solo in a tag team makes no sense his entire gimmick is he fights solo in 1-1 matches.
So what's the alternative?
Strip the Usos? Have Jimmy and Jey lose because they fight each other? Have 1 Uso defend solo?
With Jey seemingly out of the Bloodline, a substitute or Jimmy vs Jey winner gets control of the titles are the likely options. Of the two substitute is the better call
The dream of a completely cohesive Usos having an epic 5 star match where they lose died when Jey posted on social media quitting the group.
The real answer which is Jey isn’t out the bloodline and he’s betraying Sami in Montreal leading to the biggest tag match in years with KO and Sami. Your putting a lot of faith in a social media post, not like it couldn’t be obvious bait. You’re not ending a legendary tag reign with the people who didn’t start it.
We have RAW tag team championship #1 contenders.
We get Smackdown Contenders next week.
If Jey is out of the Bloodline until EC....who's defending the titles in those matches?
Jimmy and ????
At least one of the Usos title reigns is gonna end with Jimmy and Solo.
We have no Raw number 1 contenders so you’re wrong, I never said Jey is out until EC, I think he’ll begrudgingly continue to tag with Jimmy. Jey isn’t going to turn on Jimmy not yet anyway, I can’t think of a worse way to end a legendary title reign and show the entire world you hate tag wrestling then having a bunch of randoms who have nothing to do with the USO’s not even beating the USO’s to end their reign, no offense it’s just beyond stupid.
I hate the idea that winning the unified tag team titles from the longest ever reigning tag team champs in company history at Wrestlemania isn't worthy of this story, just because it isn't the world title and Roman Reigns.
I dunno what the best direction is all things considered but downplaying a tag team title feud on this level is lame.
When you try to rewrite creative plans, you’re ruining what pro wrestling is. It’s like trying to tell Vince Gilligan a different way to write Breaking Bad so that it fits what you want
Why? Almost everyone loved the segment and all the possibilities that come with it
If you're talking about Cody winning, most complaints are about the predictable and unsurprising ending
You have this guy whose return has been hyped for weeks, coming at #30, with the final five men in the ring with him being part of other storylines and not enough momentum to challenge Roman. It was just too obvious and it ended up being anticlimactic
Just let the story finish before complaining about the ending. You dont know what is gonna happen. I feel after this long of incredible storytelling we should give them the benefit of the doubt that it will have a good ending. Just wait to complain until after youve seen it.
Owens and Zayn getting back together and winning the tag titles would be great.
Sami being the one to dethrone Roman at Mania would obviously be fantastic, but this story has so many layers to it.
Everything that was shown last night was 100x better than any of the fantasy booking I've seen on here over the past few months with how Sami would leave the Bloodline. Papa H has showed that he knows what he's doing with this storyline.
Let it play out, sit back, enjoy the shows, and don't allow the "my fantasy booking idea didn't happen so this sucks!" line of thinking cloud your judgment.
I disagree with people saying the tag match is a step backwards for the characters. The story started with KO trying to get through to Sami but Sami wrongly tried to get in with the "cool kids" eventually realizing his actual best friend is Owens and is the one who he cares about. Them teaming up again really ties a bow on the story.
This is why tag team wrestling gets a bad rep; it’s never going to be a waste for *two of the most popular and talented pairings in wrestling history* to face off for the championships at WrestleMania.
Tag team wrestling can, and should, be just as important as singles wrestling and I’ll die on that hill.
Having Sami Zayn be the guy to take down Roman Reigns after all these years is the worst option and bad for long term business. Sami is lovable and he’s fun, but he’s not believable whatsoever to be a Roman Reigns threat.
After Sami’s done with the Bloodline, he’s not going to be as interesting to you all as he is right now. He’s surrounded by the most over family in the business, so of course he’s getting some shine. When he’s just a singles guy wrestling random feuds, is Sami really that baby face you want?
Cody is the right choice. Sami can team with his best friend or take down the Bloodline by getting Jey to turn. There’s so much more ways for him to impact that don’t have to be him being the top champion in the company (which he’s not).
Exactly. Sami was getting pinned by Butch just a few months ago.
Kayfabe wise he’s not even remotely believable as an option to take down God mode Roman. This story has never been about Sami dethroning Roman.
This is just the IWC being classic IWC. There’s a certain group of fans who absolutely despise that Cody is so over and is getting such a strong push and after their attempt to will Cody getting boo’d at the rumble into existence didn’t work out they’ve moved onto “Sami HAS to dethrone Roman”
Sami beating the most unstoppable champion of the last decade, after being a goofball lackey for the past year, is hilariously unbelievable.
> “Sami HAS to dethrone Roman”
You know who's leading that train, and it rhymes with Alka Seltzer. Of course he had to come in and try to rile up people against whatever would fuck WWE the hardest.
There is nothing cornier than crying about the "IWC" in 2023, like it's still 2004
WWE created an organic, engaging Babyface in a top-tier storyline that has been going on for a long time. It's not some boogeyman group of smarks that's pushing for Sami, it's a natural reaction to a good long-term storyline in the main event, something WWE hasn't had in a long fucking time.
And it’s only getting a reaction because of his link to Roman. Once he’s away from the Bloodline, is Sami Zayn getting the monster reactions? Maybe for a week or two but nah.
Cody is actually on fire and was over like crazy before his injury.
While I don’t think Sami is the one to take down Roman one on one I disagree that he’s only getting reactions cause he’s attached to Roman. Sami is the entertainment of the whole story. Without him this story is nothing. You gotta give the guy credit for going out there and putting on a great, comical, and interesting character that has had fans enthralled for months.
It's getting monster reactions because it's an engaging storyline with great promos, matches & character work that's made it up. And Sami has been a big part of it, because he's a world class wrestler & just needed to shine in order to prove it
The only way he loses this reaction is if he gets booked like a non-entity that has no relevance to the product, which would be WWE's fault, not Sami's.
But the thing is that is kind of Sami (or great babyfaces in general). The 'after' doesn't matter. You can build any heel you want by dethroning Sami a month after he wins it at mania. It's what they did with him on NXT and it worked perfectly.
Cody is over, not denying that, but he is just not _as over_ as Sami is. It would be silly not to strike while the iron is hot.
Just like Wrestlemania 30. Daniel Bryan was only getting those reactions because he was being held out of the main event by Vince McMahon. Once he wins, is Daniel Bryan getting the monster reactions? Maybe for a week or two but nah.
Not because of the WM30 main event but while medically disqualified for those 2 years in 2016-2018, he was getting monster reactions consistently because people felt robbed of him. As soon as he came back to wrestling not even a month later the reactions started to whimper, and they did so hard that they had to turn him heel within 3 months. DB is probably the worst example against the argument that crowds don't behave as described around new shiny toys and then lose interest.
Kofi too, they were excited for Kofimania and about 3 months later people were tired of his reign and after losing to Lesnar the audience just lost interest in him and he went back to being just a tag team guy.
There’s absolutely nothing about this storyline that would make you think Sami is a legit challenger to Roman Reigns.
The only people who were acting like Cody was going to get boo’d at the Rumble was a group of smarks. There wasn’t one “Sami” chant during the rumble. The crowd was happy with who won
WWE also created another organic baby face who has been booked as one of the rope guys in the company and is a much more believable threat to Roman. He’s undefeated in WWE and has beat the #2 guy in three straight matches including one where he could only use one arm.
Nothing in my post even talked about Sami getting cheered during the Rumble, nor did I say Cody isn't over, lmao
Facts are facts. Sami got the biggest pop of the whole show & has consistently been the most over act in RAW or SD. It doesn't matter if you think he's not credible enough, he's over & can sell anybody on the idea of him as a star.
All week there was a narrative people online were trying to push that Cody would get boo’d and fans would revolt if he won the rumble.. that didn’t happen. People liked who won hence my comment about the fans not revolting by chanting for Sami during the rumble..
The climax of a year long storyline got the biggest pop of the night.. no kidding? Still doesn’t mean that Sami is a credible challenger to Reigns or that the majority of fans want to see him main event mania against Roman.
Lol yeah sure that’s why all week it was being compared to when Batista won the rumble instead of Bryan.. a rumble that Bryan wasn’t even involved in..
You gotta remember everybody was pushing for Roman to win, he was on a great momentum that time too.
The crowd turned on Batista during the match, because they were behind Roman, who was their second pick after Bryan
Okay, but the narrative people were attempting to push was that Cody would get boo’d if he won the rumble. There was no caveat of “Sami has to be in the rumble for Cody to get boo’d” which is why the “we’ll have another Batista rumble” was being reference the whole time, a rumble Bryan wasn’t in
I don't give a fuck what narrative other people were pushing about Cody, that's completely irrelevant to my post.
And yes, no shit Sami is super over in part to a hot storyline, that's what good booking does to a guy. To then say that WWE shouldn't capitalize on it & pretend like fans are gonna care about credibility when he faces Roman is absurd.
Sorry but that sentiment has been echoed for months even before Meltzer jumped on the Sami bandwagon. Dude's an incredible performer, has been for years. He was consistently one of the most entertaining people on the roster. And while I like Cody as well, this is Sami's time.
>Cody is so over
He didn't even get the best reaction in the Rumble match. He's over fine, but this idea that he's this super mega star is completely theoretical.
He absolutely had the loudest reaction in the mens rumble match. Edges reaction was the only competition but there were multiple cody chants and they popped huge when he won.
Yup, I watched live reactions from the crowd and Cody got the biggest reaction.
It didn't translate to TV well, but that applied to a lot of what happened at the Rumble.
Edge and Lesnar's pops both sounded as big or louder to me, you can disagree but it's definitely not a case where anyone "absolutely" got the bigger reaction
You can’t win with some fans. WWE often gets bashed for thinking short term instead of long term. Now people are wanting the short term pop over the long term business decision. At the end of the day Cody is the bigger star, he’s better in media, and has more big match options in the future. Sami is great. I’ve loved Sami since NXT and I’m happy to see him get his spot. But there are more big matches and better ratings long term with Cody. And people who think a tag team title match is a waste are also the same people who will bitch about titles meaning nothing. They have a chance to make a tag title match one of the most important matches of the year.
The internet is great for wrestling discussion, but it really shows a lot of fans out there don’t know business and just want to fantasy things to death.
Yup. And sometimes I do that myself, I’ll fantasy book how I think things should go and then get disappointed when it doesn’t go my way. But that doesn’t mean the direction it went was bad or wrong. In this case though it’s clear from all the numbers that Cody. He had all the biggest raw ratings last year. His merch is selling like crazy. Every business metric wwe has says Cody is the bigger star and the right choice.
Cody no doubt is the right choice and most believable threat to take down Roman. He’s in the prime of his career likely so if there was ever a time to strap the rocket and let him be the top dog, it’s now.
Exactly. And I don’t think it was coincidence he spent a lot of his media time putting over Gunther last night who will be a natural heel to eventually face him.
No doubt they’ll do the match eventually.
There’s so many guys Cody could face off with. Lashley, Styles, Theory, Gunther, Logan, Orton, Drew, Balor, Solo, just to name a few.
I don't think it's about the short term pop, just what some believe to be the best conclusion to the story.
I'm not opposed to it just being Cody who wins, but Sami is clearly over, so why wouldn't him winning be a good business decision? Mankind wasn't exactly a "good business decision," but his title win is still seen as one of, if not the best of all time. There have been plenty of people who win the titles that don't fit the mould of the "top guy," and plenty of them have been great.
Mankind is a great example. If you want a big pop to be played on YouTube for years sure go with Sami. If you want a star making performance for the second biggest star in the company to affect business long term you go with Cody. And also whatever happens at Wrestlemania is likely to not be the conclusion to the bloodline story. Just Roman’s title run.
That's the thing, I think we can have both. Cody doesn't need to win this WM, he can get the titles at any time between Summerslam and WM 40. I doubt he's going to lose any hype since he's clearly likeable and capable of putting on great matches. Putting it off might even make the story more compelling if he doesn't manage to get it done this WM. It would add more nuance to the whole story if he feels terrible about coming short, but holds onto hope, fights his way back to the top and gets his big win soon after.
With Sami, the Daniel Bryan comparison comes up a lot because of how he looks, but even beyond that, Sami also shows a clear talent for both the character and in-ring side of wrestling, and I think it's perfectly possible to build him up into a star. Maybe not into a clean cut business-y guy, but still a marketable star (especially with the whole charity thing).
Unlike with Cody though, since Sami's storyline is directly attached to Roman, it might lose steam if they don't take the chance now.
Cody had the top rated raw segments last year. You can point to raw 30 where a sami segment drew higher but anniversary shows with no commercials in the first hour will always do big business. And every single one of samis high rated segments he has been paired with Roman.
Edit: also it was Cody’s merch that completely sold out this weekend at the super store. Not samis.
Exactly, he doesn't need a long reign, he could even lose it the following night with Cody challenging him.
I just think it's a shame to have the opportunity to do another Miracle on Bourbon Street moment and not capitalize on it
I don’t think so. Where was this Sami Zayn popularity before joining the Bloodline? He was a comedy character at best. Just like the Benoit/Bryan/Kingston reigns, once the moment is done, their reigns will be meh and no one will care as much.
Acting like the crowd lost interest in Bryan after his title run is insanely disingenuous. He never stopped being over he just got pushed down the card. And they never tried with Kofi.
Bryan was injury prone so that’s just bad luck. They gave Kofi chances but he was just there. Same with when Big E got his run and Benoit in 2004. They were just *there*. Not larger than life stars.
That's why I said they could just have him lose the following night. I just think that they should capitalize on this fan favorite momentum he has, give him his moment at Mania and that's it. Hell, have Jey finally betraying Roman at that match to not make Sami look that strong to inexplicably beat Roman. It's a guaranteed pop ala Miracle in Bourbon Street and Kofimania
Alright so the plan is we book like Vince.
Sami wins at Wrestlemania, gets the big rub from pinning Roman and what we do with that? Fucking have him lose the titles the next night to Cody, making Sami's big win last night pointless and us realizing they blew it on a guy who was going to be a transitional champion with a 1 day reign?
Absolutely fucking wonderful, they should do that, fuck whatever plan they have, obviously the IWC knows better then Triple H.
Naah, when the bloodline storyline is over, Sami viability in the men main event is gone too.
Even the fans are talking about a short championship reign and are under no illusion that his reign can mean anything.
Cody on the other hand can have a great reign.
Also having Sami take down Roman ignores his interactions with the other key players of this story. The story has clearly been building towards the tag match based on the involvement of KO and the Usos. People not seeing that is stunning and I am not looking forward to threads like these being repeated for two months.
I can't believe this entire time Sami fans thought he was going to be in anything more than a tag match with KO.
Reigns will beat him in Montreal, he and Kevin win tag gold. That's his moment.
As much as I want the story of Sami beating Roman, the story is also about Jey and Sami and also Kevin and Sami. So I do think you’re right.
I think Sami faces Roman at EC in Montreal, Jey ends up costing Sami the match after being conflicted for weeks. We get that crowd reaction we wanted and the nuclear heat afterwards.
Finally we get Sami/KO vs Usos at Mania where Sami/KO finally become tag team champions.
Well, seeing as how they haven’t even done that, I don’t think you have to worry about that. Sami Zayn isn’t a main eventer anyway, people wanting him to main event Mania are delusional
I absolutely agree about the tag team match, the reunion with KO is the worst option. A literal backwards move for everyone involved.
HOWEVER that doesn’t mean Cody shouldn’t face Roman for both of the titles tho.
This is fantasy booking at its finest, but Cody cuts a promo saying he just needs to go for the WWE title. That's all he's ever wanted.
More and more storyline development, Sami wins the EC in his house to challenge Roman for the Universal title.
Sami too weak to stand against Roman? Have Jey complete his turn. He comes out at the main event to confront Roman and distract him. Third helluva kick, Sami wins. That's it
Sami and Kevin are ending the Usos reign at Wrestlemania. Also the continued fracturing of the Bloodline. The end for Roman will be when the Bloodline abandons him.
Daniel Bryan was a former World Heavyweight and WWE Champion who'd beaten John Cena clean when he was still super Cena. Bryan was a main event threat. Sami doesn't come close to that in terms of his booking.
Dolph Ziggler is a former World Heavyweight Champ who also beat Super Cena and his spot on the card is exactly the same that the Team Hell No stuff was. If you're on TV week in and week out looking like a joke, it takes more than just saying "Once, this guy was good" for fans to believe it
Jey and Sami having the history they do makes Sami/KO vs Usos way more interesting. I've been wanting Sami and KO to be a top tag team and for the division to matter more for a long time now and I can't think of a better time to pull the trigger than this mania season.
This is why I have a hard time relating to WWE fans these days.
You actually have a really awesome guy that is over and connecting with the crowd when WWE have struggled to build babyfaces for like a decade, but nah Cody looks better in a suit so Sami's not the guy.
I'm pretty confused by this whole "counter jerk" to the Sami stuff. It feels like some snide "not like the other fans" mindset. I can see some of their points, but being outright against Sami (or Cody) winning seems strange to me.
A lot of them keep bringing up how Sami isn't "best for business," which is funny considering the Daniel Bryan comparisons.
How is being responsible for the crumbling of the Bloodline, wrapping up a story with Jey Uso about family, winning the tag team titles with your best friend after not having a place for so long and having someone who has been there for Sami before WWE a wasted moment? 9 times out of 10 they are going to have Sami and KO win and have the Usos and them do a handshake and a hug after because of respect which is going to get a huge reaction. Getting the titles off of the Bloodline is part of the story. Which will directly weaken the bloodline to the point where I think that the Usos don’t help Roman in the title match against Cody and that causes him to lose. I love Sami but the story isn’t JUST about Sami. Who are the ones to take the tag titles off of Jimmy and Jey that matters more than Sami and KO? If it is Sami vs Roman where the bell does that leave Kevin and the Usos on Wrestlemania besides just being the lackeys in the match? This way it give everyone something and the story culminates with the Bloodline losing all the gold and all the power and it is from Sami. That’s the story that’s the cinema of it.
People in the comments here are so bemused that someone would suggest that the hottest storyline and babyface they've had in years shouldn't be squashed and intentionally buried (which is what would have to happen) for a Cody title win that has no reason to happen at Mania this year other than his recovery being conveniently timed for it
Who is saying they need to squash and bury Sami? I think it's pretty obvious they will make him look better than he ever has before on the main roster in his match with Roman, even if it's in a losing effort that adds heat to the Cody match.
Want an idea what this subreddit would be like in the 90s? Replace Sami with Mankind. Imagine not letting a wrestler have a moment with a big belt and to be a big part of a storyline because you are putting a ceiling on him. It's bad when the company doesn't see certain wrestlers full potential, but for fans to be against a wrestler because he doesn't "look the part"
Fanbases hold back, pigeonholed and bury wrestlers just as much as companies do.
Cody is nothing different and exciting. Just more of the same with an annoying tattoo. He deserves his moment and what a good thing for there to be two belts so Sami can have his own too.
Mankind won the belt on Raw and was ending a 3 month reign. It's not comparable. Would be like swapping Austin with Mankind in the main event of Mania, which they didn't and shouldn't have done
Too bad there’s no way for, like, Sami to be the factor that causes Roman to lose (thereby sort of protecting him at the same time) while simultaneously having Cody be the guy who takes the belt!.... but wait! That took me like 4 seconds and a dozen calories worth of brain power to come up with a scenario where everyone wins, no wonder there’s a big silly argument happening about this.
Kenny Omega beats Roman clean and takes all the belts in wrestling including the women's titles. True belt collector.
But seriously I agree. What Sami has added to this storyline, character deserves more.
Raw - Cody Promo, but Haymen interrupts saying, per the rules, Royal rumble winners can only challenge for one belt. He’s fine with that and only challenges for the world championship bc that’s the one his dad was after then, and that’s the one he wants. Since he’s only after one belt, the chamber match determines #1 contender for the universal title. Gunther interrupts and says he only lost bc he had been in for the longest time ever. Cody agrees to put his spot on the line in exchange for Gunther putting his belt on the line.
At Elimination Chamber
Cody v Gunther - shot vs title. Cody wins.
Sami v Jimmy v Jey v Solo v KO v Seth in the Elimination Chamber match. Sami wins.
Cody and Sami determine the order in which they challenge Roman. Cody wants Night 1 so he can have Roman at 100%.
At Mania 1/2
Roman is paranoid, doesn’t want anyone ringside for this match. Cody wins clean.
At Mania 2/2
Roman is pissed and has Solo, Jimmy at ringside. Jey inserts himself to help Sami. Sami wins.
Because the level of plot gymnastics they would have to go through isn’t worth one big pop, my dude. Im a huge Zayn mark, and I want him to be champ and I think he will be eventually. I just feel like the story that’s right there and has been built up is a perfect way to wrap things up.
Edit: usos vs sami/ko night 1 and
Cody vs Roman night 2
he's getting a shot because he's the guy you can send to do interviews, have show up on other tv shows, do the make-a-wish stuff.
sami would get a title shot just for a pop at wrestlemania just to drop the belt in a couple months.
i think people forget booking is about business decisions and always has been.
That doesn't mean it should be. They're always going to factor in the money of course, but ultimately what matters is the story.
And there have been plenty of previous champions who haven't been a clean cut public face for the company.
No, what matters the most isn't the story. It matters but its a business designed to make money and raise revenue and a dude on the tonight show is gonna generate more money then a good story. And you can have both by having cody win but can't have both if sami wins
Yes, there have been previous champs that aren't the face of the company. But you dont hesitate to build John cena just to give a belt to a guy for a month who isn't that guy. Particularly when you are trying to sell your company to a media company. You also want to make sure both your brands have a star at the helm. Cody does that, sami doesn't. Its not even a remotely hard decision to give it to cody.
Sami and the bloodline have been great, but this iwc knee-jerk WE LIKE HIM SO HE MUST BE CHAMPION is really frustrating. Happens every time, you guys always work yourself into a shoot over it, and seems to stop yall from enjoying whats actually happening cuz of a fanfic you read online became your internal Canon
Sure, but it's still an art and a serialized TV show at the end of the day, so the story is still the whole point. It's not like the wrestlers work their whole lives to get to where they are to make money and participate in a business. There are plenty of better ways they could do that without putting their bodies on the line.
I don't think it's a hard decision to give it to Cody at all, I would still be happy with Cody winning, but I don't think Sami being the one to do it is all that crazy as some people adamantly suggest.
About the "we like him so he must be champion" thing, when else has this happened? It happened with Bryan, it happened with Kofi, it happened with Becky. All of these people weren't seen as top guys at some point, but it ended up working out.
If you like a character, you want to see them succeed. That's it.
We're just enjoying the show, I don't think that's a bad thing. If Cody wins and people constantly whine or boo him or something like that, it would obviously be annoying, but that hasn't happened. I don't mean to be rude, but it seems patronizing to crap on people just for getting really into something they're enjoying.
I feel like seeing wrestling as a business first and foremost is kinda cynical. I doubt you enjoy wrestling because you like thinking about the best possible business decisions they can make, and it's fine to let ourselves get worked if we enjoy it, that's the whole point.
it's just being realistic about what is gonna happen. you can fantasy book sami all day long cuz you like him, but there's a number of business reasons why it doesn't make sense that makes it really really unlikely to happen at mania. i like sami too, and i can appreciate the story without needing him to win a title. that's it. that's not cynical, that's understanding the business and just enjoying the show for what it is.
well online people are absolutely crapping on cody's rumble moment. luckily since aew exists now and people who actively didn't like wwe but still went to shows cuz it was the only option seem to be less prevalent, there seems to be less derailing stories and such from the audience, so i think Cody is safe there. i'm still programmed to be annoyed by fantasy booking cuz in the past the crowd would absolutely derail it at any chance they had rather then like you said, not be cynical and just enjoy the show for what it is. now it's just the online discourse that's kind of annoying cuz every other post is "so even though cody won the rumble, here's how they could put the belt on sami instead of cody". that's not enjoying the show, that's wanting the show to be different to fit what you want to happen.
if there was even a hint that sami wanted the titles as part of the story, i'd get it. even a singular shot of him eyeing a belt a second too long, but it's been the exact opposite. even when he won that tag match, he didn't even celebrate with the belt. he immediately tossed both titles to jey. they have actively shown he doesn't care about any of the belts. so it doesn't even make sense in the story.
I personally feel like wanting Sami to win and expressing that, to a *reasonable extent* is fine, and I don't see it as not enjoying the show for what it is. Even if people don't like Cody winning for whatever reason, as long as they're not assholes about it, I think it's fine to be a little upset that it didn't go the way they want. Some people can definitely get annoying about it though. Humans tend to get invested into stories and enjoy thinking about the possibilities, and as long as we don't get in the way of other people enjoying the show, I think it's fine to feel one way or the other.
And back when Sami had the storyline with Jey, I didn't think a match with Roman made sense, but they progressed that storyline, and now he's in a compelling feud with Roman.
Plus, the only thing Cody needed to present a legitimately compelling motivation to go after the WWE championship was a single promo. We've got 2 months until Mania, and I think it's perfectly possible for the writers and/or Sami to come up with a similarly compelling motivation as to why he wants the titles now, and why he didn't in the past.
You mean the aew success of fans booing him and demanded him to turn heel and shit talked every feud he was in?
Sure, has nothing to do with the reality show, the game show appearance, him turning his body into perfection, nah. Gotta shoehorn aew into everything cuz insecurities I guess.
Dude fought a hell in a cell match with half his arm and shoulder muscles detached from his body and you smarks are saying he doesn't deserve a title shot fucking hell what a joke.
Who said he doesn't deserve it?
The ideal scenario would be Roman putting the titles on the line separately. But that's because I want Sami to be in the main event too
And? Drew McIntyre never saw much success until he left and made more of a name for himself, guess he should never have been pushed either. Nothing says someone doesn't deserve success like being a self made success.
Drew was not given a title shot as soon as he came back. He worked his way through the roster to reach the top. Cody somehow came back and went straight to the top with matches against Seth and US title match.
I mean it’s just pointing out a person who had a few matches followed by a multi month injury is not the person who deserves to be the one to end Romans multi year streak they built on the back of knocking down the rest of the locker room. Like can you imagine that? “Hey guys we know we’ve for years built up that none of you guys are good enough to beat this guy, but this guy who hasn’t even been here for even a year and was injured for most that year? He’s the one who deserves to end it”. And this is from someone who thinks Cody is a good wrestler who deserves to be world champ at some point. But this is some real “Well Lesnars here so give him the belt” kind of booking.
All that's going to happen from this dream scenario of Sami Zayn versus Roman Reigns is that high y'all chase every Mania just to turn on it within 6 weeks because suddenly it's no longer interesting to you.
I like Sami Zayn and I believe he is a great Ambassador for the brand but that being said, nothing about him scream "The Guy" and just like Kofi, just like Big E, just like Ziggler, just like Jinder, just like Mark Henry, just like Christian, etc the only thing he'll give you is a break from the norm and and then one day, you're going to look at it and wonder "what the hell was I thinking?"
Everybody knows wrestling fans are fickle and more importantly everybody knows that wrestling fans have a serious repeated issue of buyers remorse whenever they go for something different. So whatever happens at Mania, happens at Mania but if Sami Zayn wins the big one and gets his WrestleMania moment with the titles, I'll bet everyone will be happy to see him lose them at SummerSlam.
>just like Kofi, just like Big E, just like Ziggler, just like Jinder, just like Mark Henry, just like Christian, etc the only thing he'll give you is a break from the norm and and then one day, you're going to look at it and wonder "what the hell was that booking?"*
FTFY.
The only truly puzzling decision of that lot that people weren't clamoring for is Jinder.
Literally everyone else you mentioned fell victim to shit booking except Mark Henry because his Hall of Pain WHC run was awesome and drew some of SmackDown's best ratings in years at that point.
> All that's going to happen from this dream scenario of Sami Zayn versus Roman Reigns is that high y'all chase every Mania just to turn on it within 6 weeks because suddenly it's no longer interesting to you.
oh yeah, because the people who book like this are always more interested in the chase so the second someone wins the title they're thinking about how they can book the next great chase story for the next champ
It’s a really poor payoff as it stands but they booked themselves into a corner. They can turn it around to make KO/Sami vs Jimmy/Jey work at Wrestlemania but they need to shift heat from KO/Sami and Roman to KO/Sami and Jimmy/Jey. This is going to be pretty hard to do given Jey is the only Bloodline member who currently has any love for Sami but they can do it with the right writing.
Having Roman lose any of the 2 titles or both, ending his 900+ days reign and undefeated streak, in anything that is not a clean finish is the dumbest option ever. Anyone that pins Roman clean is automatically a made man, Cody is believable to do that and needs it. Sami is not going to pin Roman clean, obviously. Having the match with Sami at WrestleMania for any of the titles would be a waste.
It’s the best option. As over as Sami is with the crowd, he’s not world champion, main event material and I personally don’t buy him being the one to finally defeat Reigns after this historic title run. Brock Lesnar couldn’t do it, McIntyre, Goldberg, Owens, Balor, so many huge main event names and Roman finally loses after two years to....Sami Zayn? He was literally getting pinned by guys like Butch recently. Cody Rhodes is THE man to defeat Reigns. Cody will be a main event guy for the rest of his career, after this Bloodline story is over, Sami is just another reliable mid-card talent and everyone on this sub won’t be as hot on him as they are right now. He’ll go back to being a goofball midcarder just like Kofi and Big E.
A tag match with Sami and KO/Jey defeating Jimmy and Solo for the tag titles is the best option. It’s a hot angle for sure but Zayn isn’t the guy to defeat Reigns. I would have thought the IWC would learn not to jump the gun on these things after how disappointing Kofi and Big E were as world champions. Talented wrestlers but world champion, main event level guys? Absolutely not. That’s why Lesnar squashing Kofi made complete sense to me, even in a kayfabe environment Brock destroys Kofi 100% of the time. So if the main event scene is filled with guys like Lesnar, Lashley, Roman and Rhodes, where do guys like Zayn and Kofi fit in? In the mid-card because they’re not credible threats to the top guys.
Which they won’t. He’ll win the title, get a huge pop then everything after that will be forgettable and mediocre. It’s like Zayn is the hot trend right now and everyone wants in but it won’t last long and you’ll just look stupid afterwards. Cody is a legit star and will be for the rest of his career, not just the hot new trend that’ll die out after a few months.
Meh. Wrestling is about moments. This would be the pinnacle of long term booking. Cody will be fine if the titles split and he only wins one of them too.
Then Roman loses on both nights? Or loses one at Elimination Chamber and another at WrestleMania? Whoever pins Roman clean first gets the moment, the second time will fall flat. Cody becoming WWE champion has been a lifetime in the making, Zayn is just what the fans want right now without truly thinking about it.
Cody could just pin him first cleanly. That would give him the rub.
The Sami pin doesn’t really need to even be clean, and it’s more of a personal story between him and Roman. It definitely wouldn’t fall flat as showcased by how over he was last night.
I understand what you’re saying but I still feel like Zayn is another Kofi. He was OVER in 2019 and the fans got what they wanted and he won the belt at WrestleMania....everything after was mediocre and flat. And does Kofi get the same love from the crowd now as he did in 2019? No, he’s just another guy. Zayn isn’t the right choice, Cody is. I respect if you think differently but I’m sticking with Cody to win the world title and Zayn can have his moment with the tag titles.
Yeah, I don’t get this. I don’t really care what happened with Kofi after, the moment was great and it’s one of the most memorable WWE moments I have witnessed. Nothing I’ve said indicates Cody isn’t the right choice too, the options there to have both him and Zayn face Roman separately. The tag titles would be such a bullshit prize after all of this. It would also likely result in the main event getting shat on by the live crowd (this is what always happens when they try to fight the momentum).
Fair enough you like the moments but I don’t think all this build has been for “one big pop on WrestleMania night then who gives a shit what happens afterwards” that’s awful storytelling. All this build being for Zayn winning the tag titles would actually elevate them a bit so they feel prestigious again. Winning the world championship for a cheap five minute pop and no thought or consideration for what happens after is a terrible idea.
[Voting for the Smarkies, the Wreddit Awards, and the return of the Botchies for 2022 are open!](https://www.reddit.com/r/SquaredCircle/comments/10djwul/voting_for_the_smarkies_the_botchies_and_the/) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/SquaredCircle) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Jey is not his secondary rival. His betrayal of Jey was a much bigger deal then his betrayal of Roman IMO.
Isn't there a Post-Rumble thread for this stuff lol
this is the next two months, settle in for the cody posts vs the sami posts.
“DAE think it should be Sami, not Cody, facing Roman for the titles at Mania???”
Even when KO and Sami for the tag titles are announced people will still be convinced Roman is defending the titles on separate nights.
A perfect end to this story is Sami finding friendship in someone who actually likes him, winning gold with his long time partner, and Jey standing up for himself and leaving Jimmy. Roman loses clean as a whistle to a guy who can be a main eventer for years to come and also has a great story. Not everything needs to be the main event of WrestleMania. Hell not everything needs to happen AT WrestleMania for it to be good
I think with how they booked their stuff these past few months they earned the chance to do what they think it's the better option. The best thing about the Bloodline story is that everything made sense, so hopefully they'll continue to do that no matter the outcome we want now.
The issue is, if the Usos don't lose to Sami/KO at mania, who can they lose to that wouldn't be super anticlimactic? I can't see them holding the belts longer than Reigns...
Braun and Ricochet, wouldnt be surprised if they lose before the EC as part of a Roman's punishment for Jey walking out.
Easy answer there: since it appears (based on Social media) Jey quit the Bloodline, put the belts on Solo and Jimmy. As an untested team, it's easier to justify a loss. FKA Banger Bros, Judgement Day, whoever wins the SD tag title tournament etc. Any of those teams could beat an untested pairing.
He said not super anticlimactic and you just gave the most anticlimactic answer possible. Also Solo in a tag team makes no sense his entire gimmick is he fights solo in 1-1 matches.
Introducing Duo Sikoa
So what's the alternative? Strip the Usos? Have Jimmy and Jey lose because they fight each other? Have 1 Uso defend solo? With Jey seemingly out of the Bloodline, a substitute or Jimmy vs Jey winner gets control of the titles are the likely options. Of the two substitute is the better call The dream of a completely cohesive Usos having an epic 5 star match where they lose died when Jey posted on social media quitting the group.
The real answer which is Jey isn’t out the bloodline and he’s betraying Sami in Montreal leading to the biggest tag match in years with KO and Sami. Your putting a lot of faith in a social media post, not like it couldn’t be obvious bait. You’re not ending a legendary tag reign with the people who didn’t start it.
We have RAW tag team championship #1 contenders. We get Smackdown Contenders next week. If Jey is out of the Bloodline until EC....who's defending the titles in those matches? Jimmy and ???? At least one of the Usos title reigns is gonna end with Jimmy and Solo.
We have no Raw number 1 contenders so you’re wrong, I never said Jey is out until EC, I think he’ll begrudgingly continue to tag with Jimmy. Jey isn’t going to turn on Jimmy not yet anyway, I can’t think of a worse way to end a legendary title reign and show the entire world you hate tag wrestling then having a bunch of randoms who have nothing to do with the USO’s not even beating the USO’s to end their reign, no offense it’s just beyond stupid.
I hate the idea that winning the unified tag team titles from the longest ever reigning tag team champs in company history at Wrestlemania isn't worthy of this story, just because it isn't the world title and Roman Reigns. I dunno what the best direction is all things considered but downplaying a tag team title feud on this level is lame.
Sami fans are really coping hard after the rumble.
The IWC creates a monster as soon as any of their favs gets any sort of TV time.
Yes. Let's blame fans for being fans...
When you try to rewrite creative plans, you’re ruining what pro wrestling is. It’s like trying to tell Vince Gilligan a different way to write Breaking Bad so that it fits what you want
Gilligan actually took a dieing BB fan's ideas to film the finale, so I'm not sure that's a good example.
And he changed it when someone tried to take the script. Writers go with what they’ve got.
https://www.looper.com/285150/the-fan-that-influenced-the-final-season-of-breaking-bad/ No, he literally did not discard the idea. Quit lying.
He was the most over person on the show by far
Why? Almost everyone loved the segment and all the possibilities that come with it If you're talking about Cody winning, most complaints are about the predictable and unsurprising ending You have this guy whose return has been hyped for weeks, coming at #30, with the final five men in the ring with him being part of other storylines and not enough momentum to challenge Roman. It was just too obvious and it ended up being anticlimactic
Just let the story finish before complaining about the ending. You dont know what is gonna happen. I feel after this long of incredible storytelling we should give them the benefit of the doubt that it will have a good ending. Just wait to complain until after youve seen it.
He got a massive pop when he came out and when he won why you lying,
Owens and Zayn getting back together and winning the tag titles would be great. Sami being the one to dethrone Roman at Mania would obviously be fantastic, but this story has so many layers to it.
Everything that was shown last night was 100x better than any of the fantasy booking I've seen on here over the past few months with how Sami would leave the Bloodline. Papa H has showed that he knows what he's doing with this storyline. Let it play out, sit back, enjoy the shows, and don't allow the "my fantasy booking idea didn't happen so this sucks!" line of thinking cloud your judgment.
I disagree with people saying the tag match is a step backwards for the characters. The story started with KO trying to get through to Sami but Sami wrongly tried to get in with the "cool kids" eventually realizing his actual best friend is Owens and is the one who he cares about. Them teaming up again really ties a bow on the story.
This is why tag team wrestling gets a bad rep; it’s never going to be a waste for *two of the most popular and talented pairings in wrestling history* to face off for the championships at WrestleMania. Tag team wrestling can, and should, be just as important as singles wrestling and I’ll die on that hill.
Having Sami Zayn be the guy to take down Roman Reigns after all these years is the worst option and bad for long term business. Sami is lovable and he’s fun, but he’s not believable whatsoever to be a Roman Reigns threat. After Sami’s done with the Bloodline, he’s not going to be as interesting to you all as he is right now. He’s surrounded by the most over family in the business, so of course he’s getting some shine. When he’s just a singles guy wrestling random feuds, is Sami really that baby face you want? Cody is the right choice. Sami can team with his best friend or take down the Bloodline by getting Jey to turn. There’s so much more ways for him to impact that don’t have to be him being the top champion in the company (which he’s not).
Exactly. Sami was getting pinned by Butch just a few months ago. Kayfabe wise he’s not even remotely believable as an option to take down God mode Roman. This story has never been about Sami dethroning Roman. This is just the IWC being classic IWC. There’s a certain group of fans who absolutely despise that Cody is so over and is getting such a strong push and after their attempt to will Cody getting boo’d at the rumble into existence didn’t work out they’ve moved onto “Sami HAS to dethrone Roman” Sami beating the most unstoppable champion of the last decade, after being a goofball lackey for the past year, is hilariously unbelievable.
> “Sami HAS to dethrone Roman” You know who's leading that train, and it rhymes with Alka Seltzer. Of course he had to come in and try to rile up people against whatever would fuck WWE the hardest.
There is nothing cornier than crying about the "IWC" in 2023, like it's still 2004 WWE created an organic, engaging Babyface in a top-tier storyline that has been going on for a long time. It's not some boogeyman group of smarks that's pushing for Sami, it's a natural reaction to a good long-term storyline in the main event, something WWE hasn't had in a long fucking time.
And it’s only getting a reaction because of his link to Roman. Once he’s away from the Bloodline, is Sami Zayn getting the monster reactions? Maybe for a week or two but nah. Cody is actually on fire and was over like crazy before his injury.
While I don’t think Sami is the one to take down Roman one on one I disagree that he’s only getting reactions cause he’s attached to Roman. Sami is the entertainment of the whole story. Without him this story is nothing. You gotta give the guy credit for going out there and putting on a great, comical, and interesting character that has had fans enthralled for months.
It's getting monster reactions because it's an engaging storyline with great promos, matches & character work that's made it up. And Sami has been a big part of it, because he's a world class wrestler & just needed to shine in order to prove it The only way he loses this reaction is if he gets booked like a non-entity that has no relevance to the product, which would be WWE's fault, not Sami's.
But the thing is that is kind of Sami (or great babyfaces in general). The 'after' doesn't matter. You can build any heel you want by dethroning Sami a month after he wins it at mania. It's what they did with him on NXT and it worked perfectly. Cody is over, not denying that, but he is just not _as over_ as Sami is. It would be silly not to strike while the iron is hot.
Just like Wrestlemania 30. Daniel Bryan was only getting those reactions because he was being held out of the main event by Vince McMahon. Once he wins, is Daniel Bryan getting the monster reactions? Maybe for a week or two but nah.
Not because of the WM30 main event but while medically disqualified for those 2 years in 2016-2018, he was getting monster reactions consistently because people felt robbed of him. As soon as he came back to wrestling not even a month later the reactions started to whimper, and they did so hard that they had to turn him heel within 3 months. DB is probably the worst example against the argument that crowds don't behave as described around new shiny toys and then lose interest.
Kofi too, they were excited for Kofimania and about 3 months later people were tired of his reign and after losing to Lesnar the audience just lost interest in him and he went back to being just a tag team guy.
There’s absolutely nothing about this storyline that would make you think Sami is a legit challenger to Roman Reigns. The only people who were acting like Cody was going to get boo’d at the Rumble was a group of smarks. There wasn’t one “Sami” chant during the rumble. The crowd was happy with who won WWE also created another organic baby face who has been booked as one of the rope guys in the company and is a much more believable threat to Roman. He’s undefeated in WWE and has beat the #2 guy in three straight matches including one where he could only use one arm.
Nothing in my post even talked about Sami getting cheered during the Rumble, nor did I say Cody isn't over, lmao Facts are facts. Sami got the biggest pop of the whole show & has consistently been the most over act in RAW or SD. It doesn't matter if you think he's not credible enough, he's over & can sell anybody on the idea of him as a star.
All week there was a narrative people online were trying to push that Cody would get boo’d and fans would revolt if he won the rumble.. that didn’t happen. People liked who won hence my comment about the fans not revolting by chanting for Sami during the rumble.. The climax of a year long storyline got the biggest pop of the night.. no kidding? Still doesn’t mean that Sami is a credible challenger to Reigns or that the majority of fans want to see him main event mania against Roman.
That narrative about Cody getting booed if he won was in the same sentence that it would happen if Sami entered the Rumble
Lol yeah sure that’s why all week it was being compared to when Batista won the rumble instead of Bryan.. a rumble that Bryan wasn’t even involved in..
You gotta remember everybody was pushing for Roman to win, he was on a great momentum that time too. The crowd turned on Batista during the match, because they were behind Roman, who was their second pick after Bryan
Okay, but the narrative people were attempting to push was that Cody would get boo’d if he won the rumble. There was no caveat of “Sami has to be in the rumble for Cody to get boo’d” which is why the “we’ll have another Batista rumble” was being reference the whole time, a rumble Bryan wasn’t in
I don't give a fuck what narrative other people were pushing about Cody, that's completely irrelevant to my post. And yes, no shit Sami is super over in part to a hot storyline, that's what good booking does to a guy. To then say that WWE shouldn't capitalize on it & pretend like fans are gonna care about credibility when he faces Roman is absurd.
Adrenaline in my soul Let Triple H book wrestling my bro
Yeah I’m gonna trust HHH who has experience over internet fans wanting to see their guys at the top.
[удалено]
Sorry but that sentiment has been echoed for months even before Meltzer jumped on the Sami bandwagon. Dude's an incredible performer, has been for years. He was consistently one of the most entertaining people on the roster. And while I like Cody as well, this is Sami's time.
>Cody is so over He didn't even get the best reaction in the Rumble match. He's over fine, but this idea that he's this super mega star is completely theoretical.
He absolutely had the loudest reaction in the mens rumble match. Edges reaction was the only competition but there were multiple cody chants and they popped huge when he won.
Yup, I watched live reactions from the crowd and Cody got the biggest reaction. It didn't translate to TV well, but that applied to a lot of what happened at the Rumble.
Edge and Lesnar's pops both sounded as big or louder to me, you can disagree but it's definitely not a case where anyone "absolutely" got the bigger reaction
You can’t win with some fans. WWE often gets bashed for thinking short term instead of long term. Now people are wanting the short term pop over the long term business decision. At the end of the day Cody is the bigger star, he’s better in media, and has more big match options in the future. Sami is great. I’ve loved Sami since NXT and I’m happy to see him get his spot. But there are more big matches and better ratings long term with Cody. And people who think a tag team title match is a waste are also the same people who will bitch about titles meaning nothing. They have a chance to make a tag title match one of the most important matches of the year.
The internet is great for wrestling discussion, but it really shows a lot of fans out there don’t know business and just want to fantasy things to death.
Yup. And sometimes I do that myself, I’ll fantasy book how I think things should go and then get disappointed when it doesn’t go my way. But that doesn’t mean the direction it went was bad or wrong. In this case though it’s clear from all the numbers that Cody. He had all the biggest raw ratings last year. His merch is selling like crazy. Every business metric wwe has says Cody is the bigger star and the right choice.
Cody no doubt is the right choice and most believable threat to take down Roman. He’s in the prime of his career likely so if there was ever a time to strap the rocket and let him be the top dog, it’s now.
Exactly. And I don’t think it was coincidence he spent a lot of his media time putting over Gunther last night who will be a natural heel to eventually face him.
No doubt they’ll do the match eventually. There’s so many guys Cody could face off with. Lashley, Styles, Theory, Gunther, Logan, Orton, Drew, Balor, Solo, just to name a few.
Stop being so pompous. You’re as much of a fan as all of us are.
I don't think it's about the short term pop, just what some believe to be the best conclusion to the story. I'm not opposed to it just being Cody who wins, but Sami is clearly over, so why wouldn't him winning be a good business decision? Mankind wasn't exactly a "good business decision," but his title win is still seen as one of, if not the best of all time. There have been plenty of people who win the titles that don't fit the mould of the "top guy," and plenty of them have been great.
Mankind is a great example. If you want a big pop to be played on YouTube for years sure go with Sami. If you want a star making performance for the second biggest star in the company to affect business long term you go with Cody. And also whatever happens at Wrestlemania is likely to not be the conclusion to the bloodline story. Just Roman’s title run.
That's the thing, I think we can have both. Cody doesn't need to win this WM, he can get the titles at any time between Summerslam and WM 40. I doubt he's going to lose any hype since he's clearly likeable and capable of putting on great matches. Putting it off might even make the story more compelling if he doesn't manage to get it done this WM. It would add more nuance to the whole story if he feels terrible about coming short, but holds onto hope, fights his way back to the top and gets his big win soon after. With Sami, the Daniel Bryan comparison comes up a lot because of how he looks, but even beyond that, Sami also shows a clear talent for both the character and in-ring side of wrestling, and I think it's perfectly possible to build him up into a star. Maybe not into a clean cut business-y guy, but still a marketable star (especially with the whole charity thing). Unlike with Cody though, since Sami's storyline is directly attached to Roman, it might lose steam if they don't take the chance now.
If we're talking about business, Sami is the guy who has been drawing great ratings.
Cody had the top rated raw segments last year. You can point to raw 30 where a sami segment drew higher but anniversary shows with no commercials in the first hour will always do big business. And every single one of samis high rated segments he has been paired with Roman. Edit: also it was Cody’s merch that completely sold out this weekend at the super store. Not samis.
The super store lol Sami's last shirt was the top seller on their website Smackdown did a great number this week without Roman also
Exactly, he doesn't need a long reign, he could even lose it the following night with Cody challenging him. I just think it's a shame to have the opportunity to do another Miracle on Bourbon Street moment and not capitalize on it
Face Sami has always been booked as an underdog, before his heel turn years ago he'd always get the crowd to pop. This time it would be no different
We don’t need an underdog story. Cody Rhodes is on a roll and is a legit threat.
I'm not saying we need an underdog story. I'm saying Sami will still get the fans to care even after he wins
I don’t think so. Where was this Sami Zayn popularity before joining the Bloodline? He was a comedy character at best. Just like the Benoit/Bryan/Kingston reigns, once the moment is done, their reigns will be meh and no one will care as much.
Acting like the crowd lost interest in Bryan after his title run is insanely disingenuous. He never stopped being over he just got pushed down the card. And they never tried with Kofi.
Bryan was injury prone so that’s just bad luck. They gave Kofi chances but he was just there. Same with when Big E got his run and Benoit in 2004. They were just *there*. Not larger than life stars.
That's why I said they could just have him lose the following night. I just think that they should capitalize on this fan favorite momentum he has, give him his moment at Mania and that's it. Hell, have Jey finally betraying Roman at that match to not make Sami look that strong to inexplicably beat Roman. It's a guaranteed pop ala Miracle in Bourbon Street and Kofimania
Alright so the plan is we book like Vince. Sami wins at Wrestlemania, gets the big rub from pinning Roman and what we do with that? Fucking have him lose the titles the next night to Cody, making Sami's big win last night pointless and us realizing they blew it on a guy who was going to be a transitional champion with a 1 day reign? Absolutely fucking wonderful, they should do that, fuck whatever plan they have, obviously the IWC knows better then Triple H.
Winning the tag titles ain't worthy of a mania moment? Not everything has to be about the world championship.
Naah, when the bloodline storyline is over, Sami viability in the men main event is gone too. Even the fans are talking about a short championship reign and are under no illusion that his reign can mean anything. Cody on the other hand can have a great reign.
Also having Sami take down Roman ignores his interactions with the other key players of this story. The story has clearly been building towards the tag match based on the involvement of KO and the Usos. People not seeing that is stunning and I am not looking forward to threads like these being repeated for two months.
I can't believe this entire time Sami fans thought he was going to be in anything more than a tag match with KO. Reigns will beat him in Montreal, he and Kevin win tag gold. That's his moment.
As much as I want the story of Sami beating Roman, the story is also about Jey and Sami and also Kevin and Sami. So I do think you’re right. I think Sami faces Roman at EC in Montreal, Jey ends up costing Sami the match after being conflicted for weeks. We get that crowd reaction we wanted and the nuclear heat afterwards. Finally we get Sami/KO vs Usos at Mania where Sami/KO finally become tag team champions.
Well, seeing as how they haven’t even done that, I don’t think you have to worry about that. Sami Zayn isn’t a main eventer anyway, people wanting him to main event Mania are delusional
I absolutely agree about the tag team match, the reunion with KO is the worst option. A literal backwards move for everyone involved. HOWEVER that doesn’t mean Cody shouldn’t face Roman for both of the titles tho.
This is fantasy booking at its finest, but Cody cuts a promo saying he just needs to go for the WWE title. That's all he's ever wanted. More and more storyline development, Sami wins the EC in his house to challenge Roman for the Universal title. Sami too weak to stand against Roman? Have Jey complete his turn. He comes out at the main event to confront Roman and distract him. Third helluva kick, Sami wins. That's it
Adrenaline in my soul Triple H is the CCO
I'm a big fan of Sami but it's Codys time.
Sami and Kevin are ending the Usos reign at Wrestlemania. Also the continued fracturing of the Bloodline. The end for Roman will be when the Bloodline abandons him.
Sami is great but a year ago he was jobbing to Johnny Knoxville in a comedy match. It’s not his time right now.
Remember Daniel Bryan was doing comedy shticks a year before WM30
Daniel Bryan was a former World Heavyweight and WWE Champion who'd beaten John Cena clean when he was still super Cena. Bryan was a main event threat. Sami doesn't come close to that in terms of his booking.
Dolph Ziggler is a former World Heavyweight Champ who also beat Super Cena and his spot on the card is exactly the same that the Team Hell No stuff was. If you're on TV week in and week out looking like a joke, it takes more than just saying "Once, this guy was good" for fans to believe it
If not now, when?
Jey and Sami having the history they do makes Sami/KO vs Usos way more interesting. I've been wanting Sami and KO to be a top tag team and for the division to matter more for a long time now and I can't think of a better time to pull the trigger than this mania season.
This is why I have a hard time relating to WWE fans these days. You actually have a really awesome guy that is over and connecting with the crowd when WWE have struggled to build babyfaces for like a decade, but nah Cody looks better in a suit so Sami's not the guy.
People try way to hard to act like they're being reasonable business minded people and not fans lol
I'm pretty confused by this whole "counter jerk" to the Sami stuff. It feels like some snide "not like the other fans" mindset. I can see some of their points, but being outright against Sami (or Cody) winning seems strange to me. A lot of them keep bringing up how Sami isn't "best for business," which is funny considering the Daniel Bryan comparisons.
They will go with the tag team match over Roman defending both titles separately. Why waste another Bryan/Kofi moment in the making?
How is being responsible for the crumbling of the Bloodline, wrapping up a story with Jey Uso about family, winning the tag team titles with your best friend after not having a place for so long and having someone who has been there for Sami before WWE a wasted moment? 9 times out of 10 they are going to have Sami and KO win and have the Usos and them do a handshake and a hug after because of respect which is going to get a huge reaction. Getting the titles off of the Bloodline is part of the story. Which will directly weaken the bloodline to the point where I think that the Usos don’t help Roman in the title match against Cody and that causes him to lose. I love Sami but the story isn’t JUST about Sami. Who are the ones to take the tag titles off of Jimmy and Jey that matters more than Sami and KO? If it is Sami vs Roman where the bell does that leave Kevin and the Usos on Wrestlemania besides just being the lackeys in the match? This way it give everyone something and the story culminates with the Bloodline losing all the gold and all the power and it is from Sami. That’s the story that’s the cinema of it.
People in the comments here are so bemused that someone would suggest that the hottest storyline and babyface they've had in years shouldn't be squashed and intentionally buried (which is what would have to happen) for a Cody title win that has no reason to happen at Mania this year other than his recovery being conveniently timed for it
At this point I think they just don't like Sami and that whoever is a fan of Sami main eventing automatically hates Cody
Who is saying they need to squash and bury Sami? I think it's pretty obvious they will make him look better than he ever has before on the main roster in his match with Roman, even if it's in a losing effort that adds heat to the Cody match.
The momentum Sami has is not just going to transfer to Cody once he faces Roman, your options are to embrace it or try to suppress it.
When jey destroys Sami in Montreal everyone will be dying Owens and zayn to beat usos.
Want an idea what this subreddit would be like in the 90s? Replace Sami with Mankind. Imagine not letting a wrestler have a moment with a big belt and to be a big part of a storyline because you are putting a ceiling on him. It's bad when the company doesn't see certain wrestlers full potential, but for fans to be against a wrestler because he doesn't "look the part" Fanbases hold back, pigeonholed and bury wrestlers just as much as companies do. Cody is nothing different and exciting. Just more of the same with an annoying tattoo. He deserves his moment and what a good thing for there to be two belts so Sami can have his own too.
Mankind won the belt on Raw and was ending a 3 month reign. It's not comparable. Would be like swapping Austin with Mankind in the main event of Mania, which they didn't and shouldn't have done
Too bad there’s no way for, like, Sami to be the factor that causes Roman to lose (thereby sort of protecting him at the same time) while simultaneously having Cody be the guy who takes the belt!.... but wait! That took me like 4 seconds and a dozen calories worth of brain power to come up with a scenario where everyone wins, no wonder there’s a big silly argument happening about this.
I want Roman to lose clean
Kenny Omega beats Roman clean and takes all the belts in wrestling including the women's titles. True belt collector. But seriously I agree. What Sami has added to this storyline, character deserves more.
Raw - Cody Promo, but Haymen interrupts saying, per the rules, Royal rumble winners can only challenge for one belt. He’s fine with that and only challenges for the world championship bc that’s the one his dad was after then, and that’s the one he wants. Since he’s only after one belt, the chamber match determines #1 contender for the universal title. Gunther interrupts and says he only lost bc he had been in for the longest time ever. Cody agrees to put his spot on the line in exchange for Gunther putting his belt on the line. At Elimination Chamber Cody v Gunther - shot vs title. Cody wins. Sami v Jimmy v Jey v Solo v KO v Seth in the Elimination Chamber match. Sami wins. Cody and Sami determine the order in which they challenge Roman. Cody wants Night 1 so he can have Roman at 100%. At Mania 1/2 Roman is paranoid, doesn’t want anyone ringside for this match. Cody wins clean. At Mania 2/2 Roman is pissed and has Solo, Jimmy at ringside. Jey inserts himself to help Sami. Sami wins.
Why should Cody be brought into this story? Just my opinion, but Cody doesn't deserve a title shot yet. He's getting a shot off his AEW success.
He won the rumble…
I understand that, but if you read OPs comment it says challenge Sami and beat Sami. Why can he not just take his title shot?
Because the level of plot gymnastics they would have to go through isn’t worth one big pop, my dude. Im a huge Zayn mark, and I want him to be champ and I think he will be eventually. I just feel like the story that’s right there and has been built up is a perfect way to wrap things up. Edit: usos vs sami/ko night 1 and Cody vs Roman night 2
he's getting a shot because he's the guy you can send to do interviews, have show up on other tv shows, do the make-a-wish stuff. sami would get a title shot just for a pop at wrestlemania just to drop the belt in a couple months. i think people forget booking is about business decisions and always has been.
That doesn't mean it should be. They're always going to factor in the money of course, but ultimately what matters is the story. And there have been plenty of previous champions who haven't been a clean cut public face for the company.
No, what matters the most isn't the story. It matters but its a business designed to make money and raise revenue and a dude on the tonight show is gonna generate more money then a good story. And you can have both by having cody win but can't have both if sami wins Yes, there have been previous champs that aren't the face of the company. But you dont hesitate to build John cena just to give a belt to a guy for a month who isn't that guy. Particularly when you are trying to sell your company to a media company. You also want to make sure both your brands have a star at the helm. Cody does that, sami doesn't. Its not even a remotely hard decision to give it to cody. Sami and the bloodline have been great, but this iwc knee-jerk WE LIKE HIM SO HE MUST BE CHAMPION is really frustrating. Happens every time, you guys always work yourself into a shoot over it, and seems to stop yall from enjoying whats actually happening cuz of a fanfic you read online became your internal Canon
Sure, but it's still an art and a serialized TV show at the end of the day, so the story is still the whole point. It's not like the wrestlers work their whole lives to get to where they are to make money and participate in a business. There are plenty of better ways they could do that without putting their bodies on the line. I don't think it's a hard decision to give it to Cody at all, I would still be happy with Cody winning, but I don't think Sami being the one to do it is all that crazy as some people adamantly suggest. About the "we like him so he must be champion" thing, when else has this happened? It happened with Bryan, it happened with Kofi, it happened with Becky. All of these people weren't seen as top guys at some point, but it ended up working out. If you like a character, you want to see them succeed. That's it. We're just enjoying the show, I don't think that's a bad thing. If Cody wins and people constantly whine or boo him or something like that, it would obviously be annoying, but that hasn't happened. I don't mean to be rude, but it seems patronizing to crap on people just for getting really into something they're enjoying. I feel like seeing wrestling as a business first and foremost is kinda cynical. I doubt you enjoy wrestling because you like thinking about the best possible business decisions they can make, and it's fine to let ourselves get worked if we enjoy it, that's the whole point.
it's just being realistic about what is gonna happen. you can fantasy book sami all day long cuz you like him, but there's a number of business reasons why it doesn't make sense that makes it really really unlikely to happen at mania. i like sami too, and i can appreciate the story without needing him to win a title. that's it. that's not cynical, that's understanding the business and just enjoying the show for what it is. well online people are absolutely crapping on cody's rumble moment. luckily since aew exists now and people who actively didn't like wwe but still went to shows cuz it was the only option seem to be less prevalent, there seems to be less derailing stories and such from the audience, so i think Cody is safe there. i'm still programmed to be annoyed by fantasy booking cuz in the past the crowd would absolutely derail it at any chance they had rather then like you said, not be cynical and just enjoy the show for what it is. now it's just the online discourse that's kind of annoying cuz every other post is "so even though cody won the rumble, here's how they could put the belt on sami instead of cody". that's not enjoying the show, that's wanting the show to be different to fit what you want to happen. if there was even a hint that sami wanted the titles as part of the story, i'd get it. even a singular shot of him eyeing a belt a second too long, but it's been the exact opposite. even when he won that tag match, he didn't even celebrate with the belt. he immediately tossed both titles to jey. they have actively shown he doesn't care about any of the belts. so it doesn't even make sense in the story.
I personally feel like wanting Sami to win and expressing that, to a *reasonable extent* is fine, and I don't see it as not enjoying the show for what it is. Even if people don't like Cody winning for whatever reason, as long as they're not assholes about it, I think it's fine to be a little upset that it didn't go the way they want. Some people can definitely get annoying about it though. Humans tend to get invested into stories and enjoy thinking about the possibilities, and as long as we don't get in the way of other people enjoying the show, I think it's fine to feel one way or the other. And back when Sami had the storyline with Jey, I didn't think a match with Roman made sense, but they progressed that storyline, and now he's in a compelling feud with Roman. Plus, the only thing Cody needed to present a legitimately compelling motivation to go after the WWE championship was a single promo. We've got 2 months until Mania, and I think it's perfectly possible for the writers and/or Sami to come up with a similarly compelling motivation as to why he wants the titles now, and why he didn't in the past.
And, he's the guy because of his AEW success.
You mean the aew success of fans booing him and demanded him to turn heel and shit talked every feud he was in? Sure, has nothing to do with the reality show, the game show appearance, him turning his body into perfection, nah. Gotta shoehorn aew into everything cuz insecurities I guess.
Dude fought a hell in a cell match with half his arm and shoulder muscles detached from his body and you smarks are saying he doesn't deserve a title shot fucking hell what a joke.
Who said he doesn't deserve it? The ideal scenario would be Roman putting the titles on the line separately. But that's because I want Sami to be in the main event too
I'm sorry but if Dashing Cody Roades tore a muscle while giving grooming tips, would you still be for him getting a title shot?
How is that comparable to putting on an entire cell match?
It's not worth it. They're obsessed with him being AEW.
He never saw this much success until AEW.
And? Drew McIntyre never saw much success until he left and made more of a name for himself, guess he should never have been pushed either. Nothing says someone doesn't deserve success like being a self made success.
Drew was not given a title shot as soon as he came back. He worked his way through the roster to reach the top. Cody somehow came back and went straight to the top with matches against Seth and US title match.
AEW has given you brainrot bro. Lmao.
Am I wrong though? He would never have gotten a title shot as Dashing or Stardust.
He did it all by himself. He is self made.
I mean it’s just pointing out a person who had a few matches followed by a multi month injury is not the person who deserves to be the one to end Romans multi year streak they built on the back of knocking down the rest of the locker room. Like can you imagine that? “Hey guys we know we’ve for years built up that none of you guys are good enough to beat this guy, but this guy who hasn’t even been here for even a year and was injured for most that year? He’s the one who deserves to end it”. And this is from someone who thinks Cody is a good wrestler who deserves to be world champ at some point. But this is some real “Well Lesnars here so give him the belt” kind of booking.
All that's going to happen from this dream scenario of Sami Zayn versus Roman Reigns is that high y'all chase every Mania just to turn on it within 6 weeks because suddenly it's no longer interesting to you. I like Sami Zayn and I believe he is a great Ambassador for the brand but that being said, nothing about him scream "The Guy" and just like Kofi, just like Big E, just like Ziggler, just like Jinder, just like Mark Henry, just like Christian, etc the only thing he'll give you is a break from the norm and and then one day, you're going to look at it and wonder "what the hell was I thinking?" Everybody knows wrestling fans are fickle and more importantly everybody knows that wrestling fans have a serious repeated issue of buyers remorse whenever they go for something different. So whatever happens at Mania, happens at Mania but if Sami Zayn wins the big one and gets his WrestleMania moment with the titles, I'll bet everyone will be happy to see him lose them at SummerSlam.
>just like Kofi, just like Big E, just like Ziggler, just like Jinder, just like Mark Henry, just like Christian, etc the only thing he'll give you is a break from the norm and and then one day, you're going to look at it and wonder "what the hell was that booking?"* FTFY. The only truly puzzling decision of that lot that people weren't clamoring for is Jinder. Literally everyone else you mentioned fell victim to shit booking except Mark Henry because his Hall of Pain WHC run was awesome and drew some of SmackDown's best ratings in years at that point.
> All that's going to happen from this dream scenario of Sami Zayn versus Roman Reigns is that high y'all chase every Mania just to turn on it within 6 weeks because suddenly it's no longer interesting to you. oh yeah, because the people who book like this are always more interested in the chase so the second someone wins the title they're thinking about how they can book the next great chase story for the next champ
Every. Single. Time. Apparently if you're not challenging for the title, you're automatically buried AF.
It’s a really poor payoff as it stands but they booked themselves into a corner. They can turn it around to make KO/Sami vs Jimmy/Jey work at Wrestlemania but they need to shift heat from KO/Sami and Roman to KO/Sami and Jimmy/Jey. This is going to be pretty hard to do given Jey is the only Bloodline member who currently has any love for Sami but they can do it with the right writing.
Having Roman lose any of the 2 titles or both, ending his 900+ days reign and undefeated streak, in anything that is not a clean finish is the dumbest option ever. Anyone that pins Roman clean is automatically a made man, Cody is believable to do that and needs it. Sami is not going to pin Roman clean, obviously. Having the match with Sami at WrestleMania for any of the titles would be a waste.
Two nights. Night one Cody v Roman and sami fights an uso r two. Night two sami beats reigns and kev turns on him after.
“That’s not the worst option, pal!” -Vince McMahon
It’s the best option. As over as Sami is with the crowd, he’s not world champion, main event material and I personally don’t buy him being the one to finally defeat Reigns after this historic title run. Brock Lesnar couldn’t do it, McIntyre, Goldberg, Owens, Balor, so many huge main event names and Roman finally loses after two years to....Sami Zayn? He was literally getting pinned by guys like Butch recently. Cody Rhodes is THE man to defeat Reigns. Cody will be a main event guy for the rest of his career, after this Bloodline story is over, Sami is just another reliable mid-card talent and everyone on this sub won’t be as hot on him as they are right now. He’ll go back to being a goofball midcarder just like Kofi and Big E. A tag match with Sami and KO/Jey defeating Jimmy and Solo for the tag titles is the best option. It’s a hot angle for sure but Zayn isn’t the guy to defeat Reigns. I would have thought the IWC would learn not to jump the gun on these things after how disappointing Kofi and Big E were as world champions. Talented wrestlers but world champion, main event level guys? Absolutely not. That’s why Lesnar squashing Kofi made complete sense to me, even in a kayfabe environment Brock destroys Kofi 100% of the time. So if the main event scene is filled with guys like Lesnar, Lashley, Roman and Rhodes, where do guys like Zayn and Kofi fit in? In the mid-card because they’re not credible threats to the top guys.
You’re working yourself into a shoot brother. They can make Sami Zayn work if they keep up this booking.
Which they won’t. He’ll win the title, get a huge pop then everything after that will be forgettable and mediocre. It’s like Zayn is the hot trend right now and everyone wants in but it won’t last long and you’ll just look stupid afterwards. Cody is a legit star and will be for the rest of his career, not just the hot new trend that’ll die out after a few months.
Meh. Wrestling is about moments. This would be the pinnacle of long term booking. Cody will be fine if the titles split and he only wins one of them too.
Then Roman loses on both nights? Or loses one at Elimination Chamber and another at WrestleMania? Whoever pins Roman clean first gets the moment, the second time will fall flat. Cody becoming WWE champion has been a lifetime in the making, Zayn is just what the fans want right now without truly thinking about it.
Cody could just pin him first cleanly. That would give him the rub. The Sami pin doesn’t really need to even be clean, and it’s more of a personal story between him and Roman. It definitely wouldn’t fall flat as showcased by how over he was last night.
I understand what you’re saying but I still feel like Zayn is another Kofi. He was OVER in 2019 and the fans got what they wanted and he won the belt at WrestleMania....everything after was mediocre and flat. And does Kofi get the same love from the crowd now as he did in 2019? No, he’s just another guy. Zayn isn’t the right choice, Cody is. I respect if you think differently but I’m sticking with Cody to win the world title and Zayn can have his moment with the tag titles.
Yeah, I don’t get this. I don’t really care what happened with Kofi after, the moment was great and it’s one of the most memorable WWE moments I have witnessed. Nothing I’ve said indicates Cody isn’t the right choice too, the options there to have both him and Zayn face Roman separately. The tag titles would be such a bullshit prize after all of this. It would also likely result in the main event getting shat on by the live crowd (this is what always happens when they try to fight the momentum).
Fair enough you like the moments but I don’t think all this build has been for “one big pop on WrestleMania night then who gives a shit what happens afterwards” that’s awful storytelling. All this build being for Zayn winning the tag titles would actually elevate them a bit so they feel prestigious again. Winning the world championship for a cheap five minute pop and no thought or consideration for what happens after is a terrible idea.
Like I said, you can have both. It’s not that difficult. We can both be happy lolz
Philadelphia?
Sorry. Still stuck on last monday
Was the pop for Sami or was the pop for the beginning of the end of this 2-year long Bloodline storyline?
The whole arena was chanting for Sami Uso mid-match