Im going to tell you a story about the older generation that lived in Somalia when it was relatively peaceful. My father was a student at Mogadishu University and graduated from there. He was offered opportunities to go to Europe to further his education and also to work but he refused. His reasoning was his love of the Somali environment was better then whatever perks he would've received abroad. It wasnt just him but many people even people in waqooyi Somalia refused UK/EU citizenship bc they didnt want to leave. Many of them saw Somalia become independant and develop for a short while before the Galbeed war. To us who haven't experienced a Somali nation really lost out. To own businesses, work, hang out where people like you make up the entire nation is gratifying. Imagine the difference in environment they went through, from going to work with other Somalis, going to restaurants owned by us, even having nothing but people that look like you everywhere you go etc to seeing Apu at the gas station looking at you weird, cadaans and madows treating you as if lesser, being Muslim in countries that dont like your religion, working in a rat race system,etc. To them it must be really frustrating. Every Somali I know including my family have built houses back home. I can say for 100% certainty that the majority of Somalis will give up their western passports the minute Somalia becomes stable. Others would only go back if their country became a upper income nation but Somalis would leave in droves if Somalia transformed into Tanzania esque. My point is many Somalis are just frustrated. Its not like they dislike their host nations, its just not home and will never be. It may look nice but the shoe doesnt fit as snug.
I get that. I think since I was born in Canada, I didn't hear that prespective. I only see the great dislike that they gave for these countries and my mind is blown. Thank you for shedding some light on this
Why do you care? I live in America love every thing about the opportunities it gives me but I love Somali as well. I’ll talk shit about America if I want. So I ask again, why do you care? Too many people worried about others. Sometimes you just got to live your life and stop worrying about others. I think that’s what you need to focus on
Why do I care? Idk. Why do we care about most things people post about? Maybe for you this isn't important and I can understand that.
My intent is to get to the bottom of *why* people can appear ungrateful. I'm not concerned for the West's feelings. I want to better understand my people
Why would l be grateful?
Human have been moving from one part of the world to the other for thousands of years.
What next we should thank the west for "civilizing" us?
LIBAAX. BINGO Walaal.
OP is 100% bending over backwards for white people and thinks of them as saviours.
He gives examples such as Nepotism which literally thrives in the West. We may have Fgm (temporarily) but western countries allow the conversion of Babies from Boy to Girl and their sexual organs castrated. That is the definition of sick.
They also have colonised Somalia close to a century yet he has the audacity to say that we should be “humble and grateful” this is the epitome of embarrassment and Coon behaviour.
Not worshipping cadaans, but I can see why you think that since it looks like I'm not holding their feet to the fire. But that's simply not what the post is about. It seems to have stemed from the arab worship comment so I'll make an edit about that to clarify. Or maybe another post.
I agree that these countries have done horrible things and are partially and greatly responsible for our downfall. But we are also accountable for the *continual* downfall of our country to this point of 2022. I hope that one day Somalia does stabilize and becomes a decent country too.
I'm simply speaking of gratitude and I don't believe that gratitide is akin to worship.
What is your point? Give specific examples. "Talk badly and trashing " can be a subjective thing.
Another person might think that is a valid criticism.
Personally i have never seen Somalis just talking bad about their host countries without a valid reason.
It all depends on what aspect you are talking about. No country is perfect!
Do you mean we shouldn't criticize anything? What an unreasonable thing to say!
What does arab countries have to do with it? And the deen?
Very unclear and all over the place post. Nothing to reply to. It seems like just the ramblings of an ex Muslim
Not an ex-muslim walaal. Read my posts fully before you throw that term around.
You're right.. people CAN critisize nothing wrong with that. But if ALL you have is criticism (which my post is highlighting), if you can't give the devil it's due, then what does that make our people?
I didn't say anthing disrespectful about the deen. I specifically highlighted *cultural* failings. Arab worship isn't deen.
I brought up Arab countries because they are the only countries that can compete with the west in terms of wealth ( and for the some countries like the Gulf) stability but they have Islam. Which is what our people want of course and it is our greatest criticism of the west. Except, Arab countries treat black muslims worse than kaafiir countries. To compare the two is basically insulting at this point.
Hope that clears things up.
I said it seems like. So didn't call you an ex Muslim. Some ex Muslims hide behind a passive aggressive tesxts often.
What made me think that way is because you call arab countries "Islamic" which is so far from the truth and gives the deen a bad name. Those countries only have Muslim population. Their governments are almost all secular.
Then your criticism that we call westerners "kuffar" which is a very accurate term. They are kuffar most of them!
> But if ALL you have is criticism (which my post is highlighting), if you can't give the devil it's due, then what does that make our people?
And that is really non-existent. Don't know where you live, but somalis are impressed with very many things in the west and constantly talk about it.
So this is one of the things i don't get in this post. It is tackling a non-existent issue. Therefore I got some suspicion that something else is going on here.
Another thing i have never seen is "Arab worship".
Ofcourse some delusional people back home think they are Arabs and stuff like that, but that is all that is to it.
Who compares Arab countries with the west, and says the arab countries are paradises on earth?
Do you really think arab culture is the same as Islam? You are pointing out that they have Islam, as if the bad things they are doing is Islamic. Don't you see how people can misunderstand you for being a bitter ex Muslim?
I don't know where you live but were I am the older generation are leaving in droves, anyone who can afford to is moving to Somalia, Kenya, Tanzania, Turkey and younger ones are moving to Gulf Arab countries you hate . Why are you so annoyed that other people don't unconditionally love XYZ nations? If you like where you live and you get welfare and opportunities then great! good for you. Let other people be, we don't all have the same experiences.
Only person we thank is Allah an Somali isn’t solely responsible For it’s destruction an Have had so called first world democratic countries contributing to its destabilization while taking them in as refugees, We don’t have to thank them for shit, injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere. You can only continue your Gig for so long until it’s up one morning, they used to impose dirty crooks on somali An call it a failed country an When we try to clean up an played their Game an Brought our men they Flipped an Went against progress, Now the world Is Gearing up for a Major War an The Somali people will have a choice to make an who to side with.. I know for a fact the world is ready for new leadership.
I agree. I also think growing up hearing only negative things about the west and gaalo causes some sort of identity disturbance in individuals like myself who have spent their whole life in the west and consider it home. My values have been shaped not only by family and upbringing, but by environment, education and personal experiences too. Sure, if Somalia was secular and more developed , I'd at least try living there. However, it's not so I'm staying put in the west and that's my right and reasonable too !
So you are basically a somali uncle ruckus.
That tends to be the case with most ex Muslims licking the west's arse is all you guys are good at and it's all you do.
My bad on that but my point still stands this was a pointless post nothing will change the old gen and none of them are on reddit so this message will never get to them. We are the wrong audience and the only people who repetitively post these types of post on this sub are the ex Muslims. So my bad once again on the assumption. As for everything else just allow doing these types of posts because nothing of value comes from it. It's pointless.
No worries, walaal. Honestly that's a good point since the post was originally intended for older people. I can't speak for value though but based on most of the comments... it did seem pointless.
He's not even ass-kissing he's just saying be grateful and dont trash the nation that you live in. Kids like you make me lose hope. Its also pretty funny how you're using a popular western tv show to get across your point lol.
This guy is right, many arabs are fake with the islamic brotherhood they always talk about. I went to umrah 3 times I've seen the racism first hand. Saudis wouldn't want me to live in their country unless I'm under them. In fact, the nicest muslims are typically the ones born in the west IMO.
In a nutshell, when someone helps you, thank Allah SWT first and then thank them. This is simple Akhlaq its not controversial.
You’re right walaalo but at the same time, we can’t ignore how the west acquired the resources and the bs they’re continuing to put us through.
I guess it’s a complex thing but alhamdulilah I guess
I'm not disagreeing with how complex that can be. Nor am I saying that the west hasn't played a hand in the corruptiom going on in third world countries. I'm saying *despite that* we take and trash the countries that bother to help us. I don't think that's okay
I agree but how many times is this point going to be made on this sub nothing is going to change the old gen and clearly the intent here is to bash us Muslims because op is an ex Muslims and this is all they do. I'm just calling out the ex Muslims that keep doing these type of post. It's anti-somali rhetoric veiled as sincere advice and it all comes down to hating islam.
I don't get how I'm projecting here just look through the posts made on this sub majority of the people who make these kind of posts are ex Muslims. There is no one else who has a reason to bash on Islam except you lot and your post history is proof of my point.
You're doing something just as bad as projecting. You're jumping to conclusions.
My post was blaming cultural failings. You brought up the deen. Refrain from making judgements about people without knowing anything about them. That's ignorance... another failing we are trying to fight :)
Many ex-Muslims don’t hate Islam, at least I don’t or any ex-Muslim I associate with.
As for the main point about this post, I think it’s a bit of a sticky one tbh.
From one angle, it’s like we’re only here because of the bs the west has put us through in the first place.
On the other hand, it’s like we’re lucky to have opportunities and safety here in the west but tbh, I just think of it as a small compensation for the L’s we’re taking bc of the west.
Not everyone is like that, my family is pretty appreciative. I think a lot of it its just ignorance and fear. Lets be honest nobody thought they'd stay in their host country for so long. I'm sure people are afraid of assimilating because it would mean losing deen and culture. The only grievances I have is that I think a lot Somalis have become stagnant in many western countries. We have had progress don't get me wrong but when i compare to other ethnic groups i feel like we haven't been as aggressive and trying to expand ourselves economically. A lot needs to be changed in our society
Im going to tell you a story about the older generation that lived in Somalia when it was relatively peaceful. My father was a student at Mogadishu University and graduated from there. He was offered opportunities to go to Europe to further his education and also to work but he refused. His reasoning was his love of the Somali environment was better then whatever perks he would've received abroad. It wasnt just him but many people even people in waqooyi Somalia refused UK/EU citizenship bc they didnt want to leave. Many of them saw Somalia become independant and develop for a short while before the Galbeed war. To us who haven't experienced a Somali nation really lost out. To own businesses, work, hang out where people like you make up the entire nation is gratifying. Imagine the difference in environment they went through, from going to work with other Somalis, going to restaurants owned by us, even having nothing but people that look like you everywhere you go etc to seeing Apu at the gas station looking at you weird, cadaans and madows treating you as if lesser, being Muslim in countries that dont like your religion, working in a rat race system,etc. To them it must be really frustrating. Every Somali I know including my family have built houses back home. I can say for 100% certainty that the majority of Somalis will give up their western passports the minute Somalia becomes stable. Others would only go back if their country became a upper income nation but Somalis would leave in droves if Somalia transformed into Tanzania esque. My point is many Somalis are just frustrated. Its not like they dislike their host nations, its just not home and will never be. It may look nice but the shoe doesnt fit as snug.
I get that. I think since I was born in Canada, I didn't hear that prespective. I only see the great dislike that they gave for these countries and my mind is blown. Thank you for shedding some light on this
Why do you care? I live in America love every thing about the opportunities it gives me but I love Somali as well. I’ll talk shit about America if I want. So I ask again, why do you care? Too many people worried about others. Sometimes you just got to live your life and stop worrying about others. I think that’s what you need to focus on
Why do I care? Idk. Why do we care about most things people post about? Maybe for you this isn't important and I can understand that. My intent is to get to the bottom of *why* people can appear ungrateful. I'm not concerned for the West's feelings. I want to better understand my people
Why would l be grateful? Human have been moving from one part of the world to the other for thousands of years. What next we should thank the west for "civilizing" us?
[удалено]
LIBAAX. BINGO Walaal. OP is 100% bending over backwards for white people and thinks of them as saviours. He gives examples such as Nepotism which literally thrives in the West. We may have Fgm (temporarily) but western countries allow the conversion of Babies from Boy to Girl and their sexual organs castrated. That is the definition of sick. They also have colonised Somalia close to a century yet he has the audacity to say that we should be “humble and grateful” this is the epitome of embarrassment and Coon behaviour.
Not worshipping cadaans, but I can see why you think that since it looks like I'm not holding their feet to the fire. But that's simply not what the post is about. It seems to have stemed from the arab worship comment so I'll make an edit about that to clarify. Or maybe another post. I agree that these countries have done horrible things and are partially and greatly responsible for our downfall. But we are also accountable for the *continual* downfall of our country to this point of 2022. I hope that one day Somalia does stabilize and becomes a decent country too. I'm simply speaking of gratitude and I don't believe that gratitide is akin to worship.
What is your point? Give specific examples. "Talk badly and trashing " can be a subjective thing. Another person might think that is a valid criticism. Personally i have never seen Somalis just talking bad about their host countries without a valid reason. It all depends on what aspect you are talking about. No country is perfect! Do you mean we shouldn't criticize anything? What an unreasonable thing to say! What does arab countries have to do with it? And the deen? Very unclear and all over the place post. Nothing to reply to. It seems like just the ramblings of an ex Muslim
Same countries we pay our taxes to killed/are still killing our people. We should criticize tf
Not an ex-muslim walaal. Read my posts fully before you throw that term around. You're right.. people CAN critisize nothing wrong with that. But if ALL you have is criticism (which my post is highlighting), if you can't give the devil it's due, then what does that make our people? I didn't say anthing disrespectful about the deen. I specifically highlighted *cultural* failings. Arab worship isn't deen. I brought up Arab countries because they are the only countries that can compete with the west in terms of wealth ( and for the some countries like the Gulf) stability but they have Islam. Which is what our people want of course and it is our greatest criticism of the west. Except, Arab countries treat black muslims worse than kaafiir countries. To compare the two is basically insulting at this point. Hope that clears things up.
I said it seems like. So didn't call you an ex Muslim. Some ex Muslims hide behind a passive aggressive tesxts often. What made me think that way is because you call arab countries "Islamic" which is so far from the truth and gives the deen a bad name. Those countries only have Muslim population. Their governments are almost all secular. Then your criticism that we call westerners "kuffar" which is a very accurate term. They are kuffar most of them! > But if ALL you have is criticism (which my post is highlighting), if you can't give the devil it's due, then what does that make our people? And that is really non-existent. Don't know where you live, but somalis are impressed with very many things in the west and constantly talk about it. So this is one of the things i don't get in this post. It is tackling a non-existent issue. Therefore I got some suspicion that something else is going on here. Another thing i have never seen is "Arab worship". Ofcourse some delusional people back home think they are Arabs and stuff like that, but that is all that is to it. Who compares Arab countries with the west, and says the arab countries are paradises on earth? Do you really think arab culture is the same as Islam? You are pointing out that they have Islam, as if the bad things they are doing is Islamic. Don't you see how people can misunderstand you for being a bitter ex Muslim?
I don't know where you live but were I am the older generation are leaving in droves, anyone who can afford to is moving to Somalia, Kenya, Tanzania, Turkey and younger ones are moving to Gulf Arab countries you hate . Why are you so annoyed that other people don't unconditionally love XYZ nations? If you like where you live and you get welfare and opportunities then great! good for you. Let other people be, we don't all have the same experiences.
That's fair for people who dont have the same experiences
Only person we thank is Allah an Somali isn’t solely responsible For it’s destruction an Have had so called first world democratic countries contributing to its destabilization while taking them in as refugees, We don’t have to thank them for shit, injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere. You can only continue your Gig for so long until it’s up one morning, they used to impose dirty crooks on somali An call it a failed country an When we try to clean up an played their Game an Brought our men they Flipped an Went against progress, Now the world Is Gearing up for a Major War an The Somali people will have a choice to make an who to side with.. I know for a fact the world is ready for new leadership.
I agree. I also think growing up hearing only negative things about the west and gaalo causes some sort of identity disturbance in individuals like myself who have spent their whole life in the west and consider it home. My values have been shaped not only by family and upbringing, but by environment, education and personal experiences too. Sure, if Somalia was secular and more developed , I'd at least try living there. However, it's not so I'm staying put in the west and that's my right and reasonable too !
I doubt somalia will never be secular lol
I agree and it's a damn shame. 🤷🏾♀️
So you are basically a somali uncle ruckus. That tends to be the case with most ex Muslims licking the west's arse is all you guys are good at and it's all you do.
Not an ex-muslim. If you're going to be reading my post histry.. read the whole thing till the end walaal.
My bad on that but my point still stands this was a pointless post nothing will change the old gen and none of them are on reddit so this message will never get to them. We are the wrong audience and the only people who repetitively post these types of post on this sub are the ex Muslims. So my bad once again on the assumption. As for everything else just allow doing these types of posts because nothing of value comes from it. It's pointless.
No worries, walaal. Honestly that's a good point since the post was originally intended for older people. I can't speak for value though but based on most of the comments... it did seem pointless.
😂 100% you are right! I hate these types of Somalis (thank god majority of us are lions and not Cadaan pleasers)
He's not even ass-kissing he's just saying be grateful and dont trash the nation that you live in. Kids like you make me lose hope. Its also pretty funny how you're using a popular western tv show to get across your point lol. This guy is right, many arabs are fake with the islamic brotherhood they always talk about. I went to umrah 3 times I've seen the racism first hand. Saudis wouldn't want me to live in their country unless I'm under them. In fact, the nicest muslims are typically the ones born in the west IMO. In a nutshell, when someone helps you, thank Allah SWT first and then thank them. This is simple Akhlaq its not controversial.
You’re right walaalo but at the same time, we can’t ignore how the west acquired the resources and the bs they’re continuing to put us through. I guess it’s a complex thing but alhamdulilah I guess
I'm not disagreeing with how complex that can be. Nor am I saying that the west hasn't played a hand in the corruptiom going on in third world countries. I'm saying *despite that* we take and trash the countries that bother to help us. I don't think that's okay
Yes. Very complex. Most westerners today are miskeen it was their ancestors that made it a "white mans world". It's the politicians and CEOs now.
I agree but how many times is this point going to be made on this sub nothing is going to change the old gen and clearly the intent here is to bash us Muslims because op is an ex Muslims and this is all they do. I'm just calling out the ex Muslims that keep doing these type of post. It's anti-somali rhetoric veiled as sincere advice and it all comes down to hating islam.
>clearly the intent here is to bash us Muslims because op is an ex Muslims and this is all they do. Stop projecting. 😩
I don't get how I'm projecting here just look through the posts made on this sub majority of the people who make these kind of posts are ex Muslims. There is no one else who has a reason to bash on Islam except you lot and your post history is proof of my point.
The focus of this post isn't even Islam or religion. You are the one making it about that.
Ok.
You're doing something just as bad as projecting. You're jumping to conclusions. My post was blaming cultural failings. You brought up the deen. Refrain from making judgements about people without knowing anything about them. That's ignorance... another failing we are trying to fight :)
Ok.
Many ex-Muslims don’t hate Islam, at least I don’t or any ex-Muslim I associate with. As for the main point about this post, I think it’s a bit of a sticky one tbh. From one angle, it’s like we’re only here because of the bs the west has put us through in the first place. On the other hand, it’s like we’re lucky to have opportunities and safety here in the west but tbh, I just think of it as a small compensation for the L’s we’re taking bc of the west.
OP literally says he is Muslim a few times in his recent History.
Not everyone is like that, my family is pretty appreciative. I think a lot of it its just ignorance and fear. Lets be honest nobody thought they'd stay in their host country for so long. I'm sure people are afraid of assimilating because it would mean losing deen and culture. The only grievances I have is that I think a lot Somalis have become stagnant in many western countries. We have had progress don't get me wrong but when i compare to other ethnic groups i feel like we haven't been as aggressive and trying to expand ourselves economically. A lot needs to be changed in our society
I wholeheartdly agree walaal.