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MissionBad732

This sentiment is the same over the internet in general not just Somalis. It's gaining traction especially certain social classes in the west such as immigrant class and working class young men. What these groups share is they are disenfranchised - in particularly those who have lower educational achievement and are also unsuccessful in love aka incels. That is why people like Jordan Peterson are so big. For their part I think very vocal twitter feminists (aka young girls 18-25ish) are mostly as annoying and misguided as the incels. I chalk this down to them being young and therefore have youthful over confidence - they think they know everything. This combined with the puritanical zero sum 'progressive' culture makes my brain hurt. Ultimately they have good intentions they just have a very scorched earth take no prisoners approach. Don't let the internet skew your perception, reddit/twitter etc isn't real life and doesn't represent the majority. IMO I find Somalis on the internet to be the absolute worst among us so ignore the hate and keep your head up.


SHEEKOtm

They're not comparable, incels kill ppl and are actual militant haters n terrorists. Idk about the wider twitter dynamics, but i see folks on the Internet equate feminists with incels.... Its not even close the latter wants basic rights all over, recognition and a world friendlier to those who aren't born men. In fact men themselves suffer under patriarchy because of the pressure to be providers, toughen up mentally under very strenuous circumstances, patriarchy sees it weak that a man should seek help to better himself etcetera. Feminism is an academic as well as political ideology. Incels and incel ideology was born from the fringes of the Internet and intellectual dark web, is opportunist and capitalises under ppl's desperation.... It's not remotely the same.. Now as for the last point, Internet culture affects ppl more than you think, the whole dialogue and conversations around marriage, somalinimo, dhaqan and social roles that we discuss on the web have now seeped into everyday conversations and ppl's expectations. Esp for young Somalis.


MissionBad732

I didn't compare or equate feminism to incel ideology


Frequent-Seaweed4

...you 100% compared them you laid out all their flaws and described the effects of the ideology on both groups and gave your personal opinions of both. Wtf do you think a comparison is?


kookoo4kool

I am a well of Somali young man and I can only speak from experience and also my friends who aren’t as well off as me but make 60-100k a year. The problem why these men don’t want feminist is because of the expectation placed by these feminists. These men are raised traditional by women. They don’t mind a woman who works and some even prefer it but all men don’t care about a woman’s career choices or money so long as it is halal. We don’t want or feel like we should ask for that money. Being traditional means my money is our money and your money is your money. We prefer to take care of our women financially to the best of our abilities. The problem is our expectations aren’t met from the sacrifices asked of these women. They believe it isn’t their responsibility to keep the home clean or cook (even though we can ourselves) and that’s fine but they don’t believe in what the preach (50-50) paying half the bills (rent,dinner, etc) they actually get offended and then bring the same gender roles they fight to dismantle and be rid of. The relationship starts to feel like a rip off. We don’t feel like we have a partner or an equal in that situation.


International_Hair39

Nonsense. Most men dont like feminist. As feminist are ruining the world


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Jaded_Abbreviations

Why do you hate it


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Jaded_Abbreviations

Its more complex than that. I think feminism is complex.


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Jaded_Abbreviations

Nothing is simple. Life is complicated. It looks simple on the outside. But you can get very complex, even phDs and professors still don’t understand stuff after hundreds of years of knowledge/investigations. It’s not true that women don’t want to be women etc. The definition and roles which were traditional because of culture is changing. Society is changing, views are changing. Just because somebody challenges your traditional views, it does not mean that things are coming to an end. Interracial marriages were against the LAW less than 100 years ago. People have been against change. As we like things to stay the same. According to our viewpoint. We want people to be held to the ideals of our culture and beliefs. But you can’t control people. You can’t control society. Things will keep changing for the next 100 years.


Jaded_Abbreviations

https://www.reddit.com/r/FuckYouKaren/comments/o72n1u/same_energy/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf Proof


LannisterG0ld

I'd say I'm inclined to agree, but it always manages to suck me in!!


usersalad

look the problem isn't feminism its greedy men and women. The men that say they want a traditional wife thats will clean, cook, and take care of their children rarely ever wanna come through with being a traditional husband. They think that throw finance is being a good husband when thats never the case. We've seen this with our parents generation and how so many of our parents aren't satisfied in their relationship. I feel like many somali girls lean on feminism because they want to liberate the women around them. What makes you think that men in somali culture don't have the upper hand after the wife gets tired from raising the kids and eventually become old and wrinkled the man can get up and just marry and new and young beautiful wife and start the cycle again. On the other side of the coin you have women who wanna adopt the aesthetics of an independent women but when its time for them to get into a relationship they want the man to provide for everything and keep all the money to themselves. Thats unfair to the man and will likely lead to divorce. Both sides are not fair and will lead to having a horrible relationship. Relationship should be mutual and have both parents there for the development of the children, help each other out with the finances, and build a solid relationship together.


kookoo4kool

If women want to be liberated from a man don’t marry one or date one. Be alone and be happy. You don’t need us men


usersalad

they're lots of women who want this but end up caving into the cultural pressure to get married. It's weird in somali culture for a women to not be married and old since women are viewed with an expiration date. Also most somali women are muslim and they want to be in relationships that are not considered haram but they are cut short since the odds aren't in their favor.


kookoo4kool

Well they need to make a decision. Die alone and commit adultry with animals, or meet someone that’s muslim and be prepared to do wife duties. It’s going to suck seeing so many of my Somali sisters die alone in the future after years of going through men they refuse to marry. I see it in the older generation now


usersalad

this mentality is problematic since it infers that women would feel dissatisfied living a single life I personally have open this up as a probability and am okay if I can't find someone who share the same values as me and if they don't then I'll be single and abstinence I've accepted this reality and I'm okay with it I've seen countless of somali ladies older and younger do everything in their power to get into at best a mediocre relationships just to feel unsatisfied with their husband for culture approval this is simply idiotic. I've weighted the pros and cons which is I never want to commit my life to be a submissive wife so if I can't find some who also work and wants a career driven partner then it is what it is ill be single🤷🏽‍♀️


kookoo4kool

You need to grow up. Marriage is about sacrifice and compromise. If you live alone you will cook and clean for yourself. What’s one more load or more food in the pot for another? Just like us men who understand and want to pay for majority of the bills and all the date nights. In life you can’t have your cake and eat it too. I’ve got 3 older sister not married and 1 married. The 3 say the same things you just did. The one that is married understands the difference between a roommate and a husband.


usersalad

Your obvious mental suppressed. You regurgitate the same ideas your parents brought you up with instead of actually confronting it and making your own perspective of marriage. You just ideolise the part that benefits you. Do you become friends with people because they give you service only pricks do that. You become friends with people over shared interest and emotional connection. If you come up to a women with demand and vice versa she does that to you what are you gaining beside service oh you cook and I pay bills bro you talk about roommates they do each other a service by help pay the burden of bill to you your concept of marriage and roommates are nearly the same. Also you'll pay bills regardless if your married or not. aka neither you nor I are obligated to do anything.. also I never expected people to pay for my stuff so how am I eating the cake


kookoo4kool

Why do I need to confront my parents on a successful marriage lol. I like many others want traditional wives to raise our children rather then the government system. I prefer the traditional family household rather then the system that’s clearly created and destroyed gender roles to the point some people can’t answer what a woman is and think 80+ genders exist. I am also young and well off Alhamdulillah and can afford private school or home school in a first world country so why do I need a roommate for a spouse like you do. I ain’t going 50/50 on bills with someone and I’ve handled my role well while you are in your late 20’s and clearly a failure as a woman


usersalad

I literally didn't say any of that... you created a narrative so that you can deflect from my statement You: "Why do I need to confronting my parents on a successful marriage" My response: I never said any of the remarks in your response. Your characterizing my statements in a box instead of actually contextual with my beliefs... what I SAID was you are imitating the normative (which your parents most likely follow) you act like majority of relationship aren't traditional. Most places in the world have traditional marriages and I believe it isn't the best approach especially for someone in the somali community. Isn't the whole reason for being on this subreddit to better the somali community. What has traditionalist exactly done for the somali community?? Even thought you say your well off financially that not the case for most somali people back home and in the diaspora. On top of that with the current economy (speaking from a US perspective) its foolish to rely on one stream of income for a family. Majority of somali women especially in the older generation are stay at home yet they still battle with raise multiple children with very few funds. I know this is anecdotal but I've seen countless of somali women relying on government welfare to support their children while their husband should be financially supporting them. Even if the husband has well intention to take care of the family most jobs without experience or advanced education pay low wages. This add with the high cost of living it is nearly impossible for lower income to Middle class somali to rely on one income stream from the father. Even if the wife wanted to stay at home she will still need to have a job in order to keep the family in budget. You saying this is a complete detachment from current reality, your using traditional patriarchy as a way to stroke your own cock.... Also how do you expect to build a nation when half of the country is out the labor force. Instead of encouraging every able body person of somali descendent (including somali women) to gain skills and careers that can help build the country you discourage them by telling them the only way that can get married is to stay at home or to stop advancing their studies and career to become baby machines. TO FIX SOMALIA IS A GROUP EFFORT THAT MEAN WOMEN, MEN, ELDERLY, AND YOUTH. Back home women have little financially opportunities outside of marriage this begins to breed disgusting behaviors like sex tourism in somalia. When women are promised the idea of marrying a man that will financially take care of them they become vulnerable. When they have no exit plan like a job line up or family members to support them they can be financially and domestically abuse. That why countless of somali men take advantage of the current situation in somalia (lack of jobs) to exploit women. They marry them, have sex and dip even though this isn't the case for all marriages I feel like a couple of these is all ready too much.. Your Statement Part 2: I prefer the traditional family household rather then the system that’s clearly created and destroyed gender roles to the point some people can’t answer what a woman is and think 80+ genders exist. My Response: Bro am I fox news why the fuck are you rely to me with reactionary talking points... Your Statement Part 3: while you are in your late 20’s and clearly a failure as a woman My Response: I'm a highschooler....


kookoo4kool

There’s sexual tourism in every first world country. Traditional marriages work better than non traditional. What has non traditional done. We have all this money and tech and people commit suicides more here and people are depressed at higher numbers with a better quality of life that breeds entitled people. The problem with us is women and men believe everyone has some sort of right to vacations and property but aren’t satisfied with food and rent and a plain Jane life. Next thing is this feminist bullshit called “patriarchy” when in fact the patriarchy that men built created a safer environment meant for women. Men civilized the world you live in so you should say thanks to the patriarchy. No one is entitled to a middle class life. The lower class will always out number the other classes. Be happy and humble in what ever life Allah gives you and stop comparing yourself to people. Oh bless you are a high schooler, congrats! I hope you understand marriage and a family is 1000x more important then your career. Go marry a man while you are still young and grab the best man possible and drop this feminist bullshit that keeps your older Somali sisters single and unhappy with a career and a cat for a family. Now I understand the disconnect. You still haven’t experienced life yet. A man financial prime is around 35 years old. A woman’s prime is 18-28. If you want to go to school join the STEM fields if you know what that is. Stop trying to fix things like a community. Women can’t fix communities they ruin them. Only the patriarchy can save us now lol.


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[deleted]

Its mind boggling to me how some Somali men are against feminism when Islam says a woman’s rights, property, and honour are as sacred as men. The rights and responsibilities of women are equal to those of men but not necessarily identical. Gender relations and roles in Islam are equitable. O mankind, fear your Lord, who created you from one soul and created from it its mate and dispersed from both of them many men and women. And fear Allah, through whom you ask one another, and the wombs. Indeed Allah is ever, over you, an Observer. (Quran 4:1) Feminism at its core is about all individuals receiving equal rights and opportunities. Asking a muslim guy how they feel about feminism is a great litmus test to determine their beliefs and values.


AgentDeuce007

Then we should drop the label feminism and instead use Islamic Women's Rights, alot of people don't like the word because of the people who align with it and use it to promote things like abortion, pre-martial sex, hook up culture etc... I doubt any man would come against it if you phrased it that way.


[deleted]

That’s because of the mainstream media and institutions that promote white feminism and liberal feminism. I highly suggest you look up what intersectional feminism is. I shouldn’t have to avoid the word feminism all together because of the negative stereotypes and connotations attributed to it in today’s society. Thanks to Islam barbaric practices such as burying infant girls alive stopped (Quran 81:8 & 16:58), women gained property rights (Quran 4:7), the right to education, the right to refuse a prospective husband, and much more. Also, the Quran favours the life of the mother over the unborn child. Women are allowed to have abortions in life-threatening cases, as well as cases of sexual assault/rape and incest. Many scholars accept abortions within the first trimester. Its cultural taboos surrounding abortion that force victims to bear their rapist's child.


soprpr

Agreed with what you said, but why not just classify yourself as a Muslim instead of an intersectional feminist? If more people see that Islam actually champions the rights of women we'll see a more tolerant and understanding towards the religion. It doesn't matter what they think of us at the end of the day, but they should see Islam for what it is.


[deleted]

I am muslim before anything else. My religion comes before my culture and everything else thus I classify myself as a Muslim Black woman. It is beyond apparent that I am visibly muslim in how I dress. Intersectional feminism is a framework for understanding how an individual’s multiple identities (e.g., being Muslim (religion) being Black (race) and being a woman (sex)) impact how they experience discrimination and privilege. Being Muslim is inherently apart of who I am and intersectional feminism is an outlook on how to understand discrimination.


soprpr

I understand now thank you.


SHEEKOtm

The labels isn't an issue, at all. Ppl will take terms and demonise em, and spin their meanings until their target group can no longer identity with it. If you make it IWR what's stopping ppl from appropriating it and aligning with abortion? Nothing. It's absurd to think you've got to phrase smt a certain way for "any man" as you put it because they cannot look up a term. Ridiculous.


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[deleted]

No offense, but you shouldn’t essentialize feminism. Its a vast topic. Read my other comment I explained how feminism is an integral part of Islam. OP is asking why Somali men antagonize Somali women who identify as feminist. What is the difference between a Somali feminist and a regular feminist? Many people will easily identify as being an equalist when intersectional feminism is the same thing.


mahmud_

Trash men are threatened by women. Feminism empowers women, and sees them as equal to men, which they are. Thus, said trash men now hate feminism.


soprpr

We are equal but have different roles. Feminism conflates the two. This goes against biology.


alphonmango

Shush


S0ggyL3m0n

The answer is quite simple, just good ol' sexism nothing more to it.


NunnaNunna

I've have yet to meet an actual individual who can provide me with a full proof reason why feminism is bad. Men use feminism was a blanket statement to discuss their dissatisfaction with women. But not actually address the individual problem. You know the concept of feminism exists because women *even* when Islamic rights are given are still getting the short end of the stick. In terms of rights to her education, rights to her body, rights to her finances and rights to access the most basic forms of humanity. How is women chanting for work, chanting to stop sexual assaults, chanting to have right to her body, chanting for mental health. A PROBLEM???? Find a better excuse on why you're upset with women. Leave feminism out of this. The fact that you don't campaign for your own mental health and liberties doesn't mean you come and ruined something we are struggling to obtain.


SHEEKOtm

Babes there are non Freedom isn't bad Self respect isn't bad Autonomy isn't bad Equality isn't bad But capitalism had to vilify certain individuals in society and misogyny and patriarchy gobbled that up... Men will know women have rights in the deen, but will act as though they are to decide if and when they get them. Oh so you want education? First lemme deem it worthwhile and safe and then we'll see if a girl can get education... Walahi were the prophet alive today most Muslim men would be flogged.


soprpr

Those aren't the only things feminism supports. It also supports hookup culture, LGBT, the right to an abortion for any reason, etc. We have Islam that moderates all this. We should stick to that instead of man made western ideologies which always collapse.


hoesinparis

I don’t know, I feel like the word “feminist” has changed meaning. I don’t like the third or fourth wave but the first and second waves were legit. The reason so many Somali girls are such strong advocates is because in Somali culture, women are raised to be caretakers of men, and not vice versa. It’s not to spite Somali men, they are strongly drawn to it because our culture is not a culture that promotes women. **in Somali culture women are not valued the same** *shocker* It’s always Somali men bashing feminist but in its real sense, it’s a fight for equality which any decent man can understand. We also have insane amounts of incels in our culture, I feel like it’s the incels that have problems with a woman being a feminist. They are usually dismissive to Somali women by labeling them Feminist and BLM haalimos etc… This brings me to my second point. Like why would I not be a feminist? Especially coming from the patriarchal culture I come from. So now it’s a problem to be on my own side, to want advocate for ourselves?


[deleted]

>So now it’s a problem to be on my own side, to want advocate for ourselves? That's basically it. A woman who isn't a feminist, whether she labels herself as such or not, is nothing but a doormat. Whether anyone likes it or not, there is a power imbalance in society and power is held by the male sex rather than the female sex. In the Somali context, you'd be blind not to see it.


hoesinparis

I agree, to pretend like Somali society isn’t completely geared towards mens welfare more than women’s is prime Stockholm behavior as a woman. And I will say that a lot of Somali women have incurred trauma from it. To now shame **ALL** of feminism which like I said has occurred in different waves is just going to breed more resentment. This cycle of angry Somali women will continue and the problem is going to get worse. Then, some of these guys will be like “avoid feminist” Well walaal ….let me tell you 100% Somali women are feminist if they are a healthy red blooded woman. There are those that are willing to speak up and those that are not, and those whose environments completely inhibit it. Now, if an incel sees some Somali girls spewing crazy shit on Twitter and labels her feminist and condemns a movement that historically has fought to stop rape, under age marriage, domestic violence, a movement that has brought women the right to vote, own property, earn equal pay for similar work, etc..then that’s their issue and I would advise they go learn about it. Lastly, are some girls parading a toxic kind of feminism? Sure, but does that make feminism bad? No. As a Muslim I personally don’t agree at all with the third and fourth wave of it. Nuance would resolve a lot of conflict in this particular subject.


zaran0

Agreed! Entirely! Although there are generalizations of feminism its not inherently bad to not have some sort empowerment especially since most of ours is swept under the rug.


[deleted]

>let me tell you 100% Somali women are feminist if they are a healthy red blooded woman 100 percent. These men will struggle to find a woman who isn't a feminist which I think is a point that the OP in the previous thread which triggered this one made. There's probably a correlation between education and feminism as well in that educated women are more likely to be aware of their rights, what feminism entails, and to be more sympathetic to the cause.


Ok_Paramedic4089

Yes! I 100% agree with all that you've said!


chidori99

Way to generalize all somali men lmao. Tbh idc if a Somali girl is a feminist.


SHEEKOtm

I love how somali men in the comments here think the women in somali cultures live like desi ones....???? Naa duufaan baani qaadi waaye! If you don't know what feminism is pick a book If you think you come across harsh Internet commentary, go get a thick skin. Placing the onus of what explaining what feminism is on women, somali women at that, and saying if they don't make me understand ill hate them is ludicrous.... dadkeena have an accountability issue walahi.


Yasfs

Read this book The Manipulated Man by Esther Vilar you find out why https://1lib.nl/book/3405556/ddbe51


H-M-Issa

There is feminism as we know it in the west and then there is women’s rights in Islam, as mentioned in the Qur’an and hadith. If you firstly understand the difference between those two, you’ll have easier way of understanding where our sisters are going wrong. Muslim women, in this case Somali women have every right to demand their rights without the need for them to copy another cause (western feminism) which pits them against their own cultural and religious values.


soprpr

I will agree, but men are also going wrong. Some of us want traditional women but won't act like traditional men and follow the sunnah of the prophet SAW.


H-M-Issa

I agree with you 100%. Although I believe those types are a small percentage of Somali men, same way the feminists in discussion here aren’t what define the majority of Somali women.


buuqnjuuq

Muslim feminists search for their rights outside of the Quran and authentic Sunnah. Also feminists claim they want equality between men and women however the truth is that they want to take the place of men. The western family system was, and is currently being destroyed by feminism. The divorce rate in North America is more than 50% and 75%+ of these divorces are initiated by women. We simply don't want this for our people. Allah and His rasool set out rules and regulations for us to follow, and feminism is not part of it.


AgentDeuce007

Alhamdulah well said fam, also I'm starting to think there are bare gaals on the subreddit, I've noticed whenever people bring up Islam they get downvoted to oblivion.


Truthful_capper

finally someone with common sense. May Allah preserve you Btw 80% is initiated by women and the laws that govern child custody, and divorce settlement are biased against men. I mean like dangerously biased against em subhanallah!!


soprpr

I'm not sure why you were downvoted, you're right.


buuqnjuuq

Facts


Jaded_Abbreviations

Somalis are obsessed with religion. Damn. Cant talk about tying shoe laces without religious perspective.


AgentDeuce007

Because we are muslim first and somali second, and therefore we use Quran and the Prophet's Sunnah (ASW) as fact and the basis of all our arguments, now if your not a muslim that's cool, you do you & I repect your choice, just disregard my comment because we can't have a productive conservation if both of us can't agree on this.


Jaded_Abbreviations

Fair enough. But you are somali first. Nationality is genetics. Religion is not genetic.


SHEEKOtm

Nah Somalis are ethno religious, our ethnic identity is deep seeded and tied with Islam no offence.


Jaded_Abbreviations

You might be delusional. There are somali athiests and somali Christians. Ethno religion LOOL. I might be athiest, but it doesn't mean I dont want my children to have traditional somali names. Note: somali name, not arabic/muslim name. Somali culture came before Arabic and Muslim culture.


soprpr

No. We are Muslim first. Nationalism is a disease.


Jaded_Abbreviations

Don't think you get it mate


soprpr

Ah you're an ex Muslim...


Jaded_Abbreviations

Yes. But the main point is you can be Somali and not Muslim


soprpr

I agree


yamyamyamyamyamjam

So you gonna tell someone else whats important


Jaded_Abbreviations

It’s facts. You can’t change biology. Maybe you should take a 23 and me test?!


yamyamyamyamyamjam

More important to you maybe, and id rather not give these companies my DNA because we know they send that data


AgentDeuce007

I meant in terms of priorities, but thank you for being understanding


freedomriderio

Simple, because we associated them with certain stereotype. Blm, leftist progressive, nagging about issues that doesn’t matter to somalis. At a extreme case going against traditional setup in marriage. Is a gaint red flag for a guy. Guys whether he is white or Asian or black, will always want traditional, stable woman. As for females, they see these guys as a Msgynist, backward or sometimes “holding up petriarchy”, toxic masculinity.


Ok_Paramedic4089

But isn't that always the case? Somali men aren't brought up to treat their future women right & most of them don't make the effort to learn this. But a Somali woman wanting to be treated with common human decency & as a partner is never something they want to do for their women thus Women tend to become feminist & learn their rights. Something I learnt talking to Somali men is that they want a woman that doesn't think for herself, that will bend over backwards for them at any given time bc to them feminist = strong willed woman, & they hate that


freedomriderio

Sure you could say that. What exactly do you mean feminism. There is many type of them.


SHEEKOtm

No there isn't First, second, third, etc waves only mean compared to the struggles of modern times. Like today we're not gonna speak up on allowing women to vote, rather we will address current issues BUT AT IT'S CORE AND I'LL HAVE TO SAY IT LOUDLY THE IDEOLOGY IS THE SAME, EQUALITY, EQUITY AND ACCOUNTABILITY FOR ALL.... Good grief .


freedomriderio

Sexual liberation does that count?


DadkiiHore

Because it is just the most unattractive thing for a woman to be. It is equivalent to how a mentally weak man with no personality or confidence is to women. It is hard to explain.


zey112

Good. Nobody is trying to attract a man who feels threatened by a woman seeking her rights.


DadkiiHore

Do you feel threatened by weak men? That was my comparison. But I wrote that comment in a hurry anyway, the issue is much deeper than that. I can understand why girls are drawn to this ideology.. because there are problems. But I just think feminism creates much more problems than it solves. Fighting for your rights does not equal feminism for example. But the attraction part, it is hard to controll what you are attracted to


SHEEKOtm

waa la'iska hadlaa aa maqashey, naa bax soco. Fighting for your rights as a woman is a tenet of feminism. Mayhap, you're the one who doesn't know what feminism is???


DadkiiHore

There is no benefit to this discussion I realized. Raali ahaada


MeMakinMoves

😂😂😂😂😂


zaran0

Wow :(


BundyBundt

The 'Somali' brand of feminism abandons the holistic view of problems faced by the Somali collective in favour of chastising a specific subset of said community. I feel like Somali women have drank the Kool-Aid and (in my view) are investing into detrimental mindsets. There are enough legitimate grievances when it comes to women in our community. Seriously, there is no shortage of injustice, but this is obfuscated by co-opting or misrepresenting problems. Every issue we face is forced through a gender lense. FKD but with gender edition™. This is entirely anecdotal and maybe c00nish, but fuck it. I honestly believe that Somali self-proclaimed feminists are more often than not, toxic and divisive individuals. Sometimes justified, sometimes not. People that have no semblance of how relationships and marriages actually work irl. It's the forefront of their identity as individuals. Cadaan feminists are a diceroll. They wildly vary and I feel like actual individuals with their own opinions and thought processes. I wouldn't close the book on one. I can't say I believe that they're the bane of the Somali community as they're often depicted as. We have bigger issues. But in context of dating or marriage, lol no. I don't believe they would make for good partners at all. Nope, nope, nope.


Bitter-Lock-4057

Somali feminists are toxic and simple while white feminists know what they’re talking about..? Don’t be so self hating bro


BundyBundt

That's what you heard, not what I said


Bitter-Lock-4057

“I honestly believe that Somali self proclaimed feminists are more often than not toxic and divisive individuals. People that have no semblance of how relationships and marriages actually work irl. Cadaan feminists are a dice roll. They wildly vary and I feel like actual individuals with their own opinions and thought processes. I wouldn’t close the book on one” Why not stand behind what you said? At least your a self aware coon, I’ll give you that


BundyBundt

I stand by everything I said in that post. How does any of that imply that I agree with cadaan feminists? Somali women are one of the most underprivileged demographics while cadaan women are among the most privileged groups. You don't have the same issues. That is why Somali women are more likely to appeal to fringe ideas. Somali women are also more polarized with a starker division of feminist and modern women opposed to the more cultured and conservative type. If you feel like I'm picking on Somali women, it isn't just them. You see similar behaviour on other madow women who equally disenfranchised. Likewise you don't see not anywhere near as much of a division among South-Asian or Arab women.


Professional_Win_357

Feminism is an inherently kuffar ideology to call yourself a “feminist” is to admit to being a kaffar, i don’t know about u but young kids need to start learning their deen properly and I mean u need to be able to understand what your reading (quran). once i learned arabic a new world opened up to me the world of my religion and the sunnah of the prophet (pbuh). feminism denies the Quran’s (4:176) inheritance laws apparently under the guise of not needing to take them literally due to highly speculative ‘maqasid ul sharia’ (objectives of Islamic law) argument. which is complete nonsense and hogwash. anyways if your a feminist your admitting to be a kuffar and changing the deen to fit you. macsalamo!!!!


DadkiiHore

I agree man, but I honestly blame feminism on us men. We have been appointed as the leaders and this clearly shows that we failed. Let's fix this by fixing ourselves and our families. Then our communities. By even talking about "how bad feminism is" we are just fueling this issue even more. Leading with actions should be our priority. Not debating


Ok_Paramedic4089

Yes pls! The young generation need to be taught their Deen better, I'm not denying that. But you know what else they(the young men)need to be taught? Not to be like the majority of men in this & the previous generations, to learn that women are humans too, that women have rights & they shouldn't face any sort of abuse. & Yes, the Quran backs this up Incase you never read about that. Calling me & other Muslim feminist Kuffar is 1) giving us more reason to fight back & show you men that we are just merely fighting to walk this earth without feeling threatened by MEN! 2) isn't helping anyone & certainly isn't helping woman going through hardship that MEN are putting them through.


Professional_Win_357

What rights do u as a woman need other than the rights Allah gave u? are u as a feminist saying the rights he gave you are not enough so much so that now feminists believe men and women are equals in terms of the inheritance laws haram.


Truthful_capper

Imma be honest with you abaayo I would never EVER ever marry a male feminist god forbid… it’s not just guys that find it repulsive. Just putting it out there🙌


Ok_Paramedic4089

Are you a women? & If yes, I'm sure you haven't educated yourself enough on Feminism. The fact that you can air your opinion rn is BC of feminism FYI. Secondly, I too, Don't believe that there are male feminist. Whenever I hear a cis man say he is feminist then I know he has ulterior motives. That's what I've experienced. But to say feminism is repulsive as a lady is giving me pick me vibes but do you sis!


Truthful_capper

Yup on with the name calling the minute u see someone with opposing opinions. “pick me” kulahaa get a life pls. I mean I rather not marry an effeminate fat loser who can’t bench my body weight so I guess ur right I’m a pick Me gal in that sense. Wish you all the luck in life. I don’t wanna feel filthy anymore than I already do by responding to a comment that has “cis man” in it so I won’t bother getting into explaining how and why I reached the conclusion I have about feminism. One thing for sure tho, I’m more than educated in it🤷‍♀️


Ok_Paramedic4089

You're well educated on it & yet you associate male feminist to "fat losers who can't bench your body weight"??? & You don't need to explain anything to a stranger on the internet sis. Just keep enjoying your life & grow to be independent but don't forget thank the "repulsive" movement once you achieve independence 😗


puljujarvifan

>I too, Don't believe that there are male feminist. Whenever I hear a cis man say he is feminist then I know he has ulterior motives. Lmao I think that's wrong. I don't go out of my way to tell people I'm a feminist but if someone were to ask me point blank I wouldn't be ashamed to say yes because it simply means believing in the equality of the sexes. Perhaps what you are weary of is men who go around advertising themselves and identifying as feminists and treating it like something everyone needs to know because then I would agree it's a bit weird


Ok_Paramedic4089

Yes, I'm talking about those men that advertise that they are feminists. To support the movement I know is fine, men can support it too but to voice & label themselves as feminist...THAT I don't & will never believe in


somalilefty

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8D0ZygYEw1c](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8D0ZygYEw1c)


zaran0

Because like one comment said feminism is “Anti men”


[deleted]

Not all men. True feminism starts from the premise that we live in a patriarchy and that men abuse their power in this patriarchy. Most heterosexual feminists still associate with decent men. Some sleep with them and even marry them. AFAIK, feminists who are calling for separatism are in the minority. Can't see liberal feminists wanting separatism and there's a lot of them! I've noticed that a lot of women who are feminists but not inclined towards the liberal variety say that they are feminists but 'not the fun kind.' LMAO.


the404

> starts from the premise that we live in a patriarchy and that men abuse their power in this patriarchy Also commonly referred to when did you stop beating your wife?


HistoricalRace4945

Simply, feminism is incompatible with Islam.


Ok_Paramedic4089

Deen will always be your defense yet y'all ignore Islam's teachings on how treat your women? Its bc y'all don't follow Islam's teachings that feminism was brought about especially in the Somali/Muslim culture loool


HistoricalRace4945

Do you know me personally? U asked why men are against feminism and I gave my viewpoint. I treat women as they should be. And the idea that feminism was concocted bc Muslim women weren't receiving their Islamic rights has to be the stupidest thing I've ever heard. Bc u aren't getting your ISLAMIC rights you resort to an ideology that is inherently counter to Islam. That makes 0 sense whatsoever.


Ok_Paramedic4089

Ohh? I mentioned feminism is being used to counter Islam? Haah, My point must have been too difficult for you to understand. Toodaloo then.


wtfhassan

Feminists on average are very argumentative people who radiate negative vibes. I’d advise any man to abort ASAP if you’re dealing with a feminist, you’ll get a bidaar by 25 if you put a ring on that lol


Ok_Paramedic4089

But when our sisters marry outside the Somali culture bc other men try to understand them y'all get pressed?


wtfhassan

I don’t care about who xalimos choose to marry unless they’re my daughter, I can’t speak for other Somali guys though they need to mind their business. And btw it’s important to note not all Somali girls are feminists


Living-Initiative477

Feminism is from cadaan!!!


Jaded_Abbreviations

Maybe you can learn one thing or another from the cadaan. Maybe you would be more wise


AgentDeuce007

Because when we hear feminism we see what it has done for white america there whole relationship and marriage situation is in shambles, 70% of their marriages end in divorce of which 85% of those divorces are initiated by the woman, their men have become weak and their women are masculine, insufferable and always arguing, the men living in fear of waking up to your wife saying your not the same man I married when you literally gave the marriage your all and preceding to divorce you and take half your shit. Somali men see this shit and there like hell no I don't want anything to do with this, my advice then perhaps is for Somali women to disassociate themselves from feminism and perhaps convey their needs and rights under a different banner like Islam there was a sister in the comment section who used the Prophet and his sunnah to get her point across which I totally understand and can get with


zaran0

Feminism in whole is not just a banner for and just with white people though? feminism can be applied or believed by a person of any group or race Ma joojin karnaa ka hadalka dadka cadaanka hal mar ...


Living-Initiative477

Marka laga hadlo feminist waxaa laga hadlayaa wax dad kale leeyihiin oo lagu shaqaysto


AgentDeuce007

I get what your saying, as for the cadaan thing I was merely using that as an example though it's pretty much the same situation for African Americans, and alot of other non-muslims groups too. In regards to op's question why Somali men don't like femenism it's because it failed other races, but if we want to change mindsets on certain issues let us do so within the scope of Islam.


Criminaldestruction

This is one of those issues that are very controversial and vague, that it should be on here


alphonmango

What feminism gets wrong is that men and woman have different roles. A woman will never be equal to men in certain things such as strength.


Ok_Paramedic4089

So.....only strength?


alphonmango

Basically all physical activities.


alphonmango

I agree with feminists in countries like Pakistan where they try to get basic rights, but feminists in western nation spend their days trying to make cat calls illegal.


Hot-Palpitation-1415

We hate Somali women that are feminists because we as Somalia are a Muslim community raised on our religious beliefs and feminism as a whole contradicts everything we are taught and believe. It’s aim is too essentially make women more masculine and in turn preaches for more men to be feminine. God made men and women different for a reason for a balanced life but the feminists want to change all that. Now there is an imbalance, no wonder the divorce rates in our community is sky high and a lot of "feminist" women in our community grow old unmarried or end up marrying a simp or a brother from back Home at the point of desperation when she needs to be married for her own mental we being, no one wants to be alone forever so when that day comes feminisms goes out the window and I’d you ask these women what feminism has benefitted them there tell you nothing and warn you against it. The devil is real and it is told in the Quran that most of the fillers of the devil will be women and at first I used to be surprised as to how that could be as women were so innocent to me (feminine women) but now I see.


Ok_Paramedic4089

LMAOOOOOOOOOO!!!! Pls shut up. Looking at your recent comments made 5 days ago & 1 days ago (DURING RAMADAN) you can’t tell me what bothers you about feminism is “they go astray from the religion” just say you wanna mistreat women & get away with it. Using religion as an excuse won’t take you no where, darling. Just man up & admit you’re a misogynist & go.


kookoo4kool

And this is why we don’t want feminists. Shaming and attacking instead of opening dialogue. You don’t have any communication skills


Ok_Paramedic4089

You don’t know how to read???? Didn’t he shame & attack feminist too? Didn’t he say we’ll grow old & unmarried then later marry simps. Like we aren’t trynna build something for ourselves. Like we aren’t asking for y'all to come & act right too us? Like saying “we hate feminists bc they don’t follow the deen”(when y’all aren’t either)isn’t attacking us???? Y’all can shut the fuck up & suck each other’s d*cks. This thread died a long time ago. You can stop responding now as I no longer want to read a somali mans 2 cents on their hatred for feminists.


kookoo4kool

What a sad life. My Allah make it easy for you sister


Ok_Paramedic4089

Ameen. And may Allah punish the men who look at porn during Ramadan and the ones that defend them. Allahuma Ameen.


[deleted]

[удалено]


Ok_Paramedic4089

Cool observation bro!


Throwaway546som

Its hilarious you are this judgmental when you literally told in your earlier posts that you participate in zina have been in haram relationships and also support sex workers which would be haram. Maybe thats why they are not liking you because of your fake worship of islam